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Yes. Bears et Cetera brought to you by Miller Lte with the voices of the Bears Jeff Joniac and Tom Thayer.
Welcome back to the Bears et Cetera Podcast.
We're episode fifty one, halfway through January already and gearing up for a memorable off season as the Bears are interviewing offensive fordner candidates and delving deep into their game plan for the quarterback position with Super Bowl winning Bears guard Tom Thayer.
I'm Jeff Joniac.
Good to have you along as we begin a now once a week's show through the off season, save for any breaking news, of course that may occur between now and the start of training camp. And we are sponsored by Miller Official Beer of the Chicago Bears.
It's like Mither time Chicago.
We have a special guest to kick off the program special guest down fifty one. It's our Dick, butkis episode for a guy who was born and bred like Dick on the South Side. One of the premier chefs in the world, right here in Chicago, our very own Joe Flamm, culinary director for Sincere Hospitality overseeing Rosemary and Blvd. Steakhouse in Fulton Market District. Winner of Top Chef Season fifteen. His career is amazing. We're going to get into that.
His love of the Bears and the White Sox also deeply rooted in this man and his world is blending with the sports world as we speak right now.
Joe, how you feeling, buddy.
I'm feeling good, feeling good, Excited to be here.
Guys, Thanks, thanks for joining us. I know you have a busy schedule running everything. But before we get into all that, we got to get your thoughts on your beloved. We got to talk about the Bears and you know, hey, it's gonna be an amazing offseason and I know every Bears fan feeling a little bit anxious about it all.
How are you feeling about it?
Yeah, I feel anxious, I feel excited. I think these are normal feelings as a Bears fan, but I think, you know, I really like Kevin Warred, I really like Ryan Pole. So you know, I think at this point you got to say, we trust our guys, right, we trust the two guys who were there to spok to do the job. I think, you know, I felt better about it before that Packers game, and then I felt better about it before I watched the Packers go to Dallas and absolutely destroy the Cowboys. It's just kind of
that was the scary thing to me there. But I think it kind of forces your hand one way, because you're now saying, you know, we thought the Packers weren't going to be this right a couple of years ago, we're like, Okay, you know, they're kind of going down. Everybody's treading down at our division. Detroit went through the roof Green Base making a run. Now it's say it, Okay, the table stakes are just as high as they've always been. So if we want to compete in this division, we
got to be ready for it. We have to have, you know what I mean, the weapons to do so.
So the Bears lose to green Bay seventeen to nine. In green Bay, they beat Detroit at home, and they should have beat Detroit on the road. That kind of gives me some encouragement going into the offseason, thinking, Okay, you're a reachable, you're an attainable improvement a way from going in and competing in your division.
How do you feel about the way the Bears ended things.
I think it's tough. I hated the way that last game went. I hated the way it was called. I thought Justin looked really uncomfortable that whole game. I thought, you know, I think a lot of us thought like he was going to come out and be wildly aggressive. Right, there's nothing to lose. We don't have a playoffs spout to lose, Like, just let them go out there, let them rip it, let's be super aggressive with the defense,
and let's just go after Green Bay. And it felt like they played a game where they were trying not to lose. And then when you watch the contrast of Jordan Love to Justin Fields, I think that's where it felt really scary to me, because you're watching this guy who looks real comfortable in the pocket, is making decisions, making quick throws, not holding onto the ball too long, and you're watching Justin, you know, getting crushed over there. So it's just like, that's the part that scares me.
It doesn't feel super far away, but I'm just worried the part where it is far away might be justin.
Thanks Jeff, this is not just some chef. This guy knows football, so I love it. I'm not gonna I'm not going to ask your answer. Do you have a specific opinion about the quarterback position? And I don't, you know, I guess you can give me an explanation, but you know, it's it's one of the biggest topics in the NFL football world outside the head coaching consideration of the rest of the league.
I think it's tough. You know, we're number one pick two years in a row. So you're either going to say we're going to trade the number one pick two years in a row and we're going to go all in on Justin again. Or are you going to say, hey, we see what the competition is, we know what we have, and we're going to take a gamble that maybe there's
something better out there. And I think that's kind of the two roads right now, right because I think it's like, we have the cap space, we have the picks, where we're going to be whoever it is, you're going to be able to build a rend them, you know what I mean, whether it's there's a heavy wide receiver draft in that first round, the wide receiver's going into free agency this year, nuts, you know what I mean. So I think it's like being able to pick somebody up.
You know, It's like I think I have a sick fantasy where it's like Mike Evans and Dj Moore out there and it's like, you know what I mean, Like, you know, it's just like who cares who throws to him at that point, right? You know what I mean, Just get the ball up in the air. Somebody will
break it down. But it's hard. You know. They keep saying consistency, but I just I have a hard time believing if you're the GM, you know, this season, you know, is a huge season for you where you look at that number one pick and you say you're going to trade it away and not say, hey, like maybe you know one of these kids out there is what they are supposed to be.
When did it kind of crystallize for you that you were a Bear?
I mean, you know, Litten, but I was born four months after the Bears won the super Bowl, though, you know what I mean, I've never seen a Bear super Bowl in my lifetime. My dad's a Bears fan. I'm a Bears fan. I grew up in a house, you know. He had all the posters on the wall the weight room that were you know, the back the Black and Blues Brothers and the Junkyard Dogs. It was it was instant, you know what I mean, there was no other option.
My dad's a Cubs fan, I'm a Socks fan. We agree on almost nothing, but there was always the Bears. That was always a day, one day of just you know what I mean, like Sunday's watching the Bears, and it's just it's it's always, it's been forever. I always I always loved the big guys growing up, you know what I mean. I was a you know, a big guy. I was alignment. So it's like I loved Olin Cruitz. He was he was always one of my favorites. I love the way he played. He was mean, you know
what I mean. He just seemed like a real son of a bitch out there and I love that. The guy, like the guy who if he was like God, anyone else's team you'd probably hate him. I love the Erlocker era, so like getting to watch like Aurlocker play you just you know, for me, I was like, oh yeah, we just had the greatest middle linebackers always forever, you know,
and it was just unbelievable to watch. And I think he was Him and Devin Hess might have been two of the most excited guys I've ever seen wear a Bear's uniform in my lifetime at least.
Did you go to any Bears games?
Because I remember the first time I went to a Bears game then it was a Bears Packers preseason game and it was on my birthday back in probably the early seventies.
Yeah, I mean we didn't go to a lot of Bears games, you know, because Bears games were expensive, they were hard to get into, and so it was I remember the first time I went to Soldier Field was actually my dad took me. You know, this is like some real South Side So my Dan's brother, of course, is a priest. So my dance brother is a priest
and he's a missionary priest. So he was in town for like a week, and so it was Notre Dame was playing at Soldier Field, so we went down to Soldier Field scalp tickets late to get in sat like twelfth roll behind Lou Holtz when Rick Meyer was the quarterback. And that was the first time I was ever inside Soldier Field.
I was at that game on the sidelines, and I think that's the one that Rick Meyer had a really good day in the hit and the bean l Cook said Rick Meyer is going to be a four year All American and a Heisman Trophy winner.
At the end of the day. They might have been playing Northwestern or something.
I remember it was like Rick Meyern. I was like, Yeah, this guy is awesome. If the Beers could get this guy, this would be the guy. This would solve all our problems. Well, obviously I wasn't right on that.
Who have you met in terms of sports personalities over the course of your career as a chef?
You know, first real nice restaurant I worked at was Table fifty two in the Gold Coast and we used to do we used to do it was like a fine dining Southern restaurant. On Sundays we would do fried chicken. It was the only day of the week we did, like these fried chicken dinners with mashed potatoes and it was like forty two dollars fried chicken. It was ridiculous, right, But it was like Tommy Harris was on the Bears
then and like that. So this was the seven eight era, and these guys would come in and everybody be really dressed up in this restaurant. These guys would roll in after a Sunday game and flip flops of Jim shorts, you know, being the size of the doorway and come just crush and I was like, this is the best,
Like this is just just really really cool. At that same place, Eli Manning ate there one time and it was one of those crazy things and I think, like growing up, you know, you see these quarterbacks out there and you see all these huge guys around them, and then you see these quarterbacks in real life, and that's always the thing that shocked me. It's like, how just
monster these guys are, you know what I mean? The first time I saw like Brett Farber, I was like, Oh, this dude's like huge, Like this dude's not like you know what I mean, You're like, oh, why can't they tackle this guy? It's like, well, because he's sixty three two twenty five, and you know, I mean, you know, I mean for me being from Chicago, one of my biggest welles was Jordan. I got to cook for Jordan a couple of times Labroad. But one of my favorite
people honestly. I worked at a place and Ozzie Gid used to come in all the time and he would sit at the chef's counter and I was just a cook at the time, and he was I mean, he'd have us go at all night, like he would just tell stories, Like he would tell stories about like him and Joey Korra and the minor leagues and like you know, Border Texas towns, like getting in fistfights at like Honky Tonks because like, you know, Joey Korra was like all the ladies at the bar were talking to Joey Korra
and he would just like get in a fight with like six regnat dudes. He's like he's like Joey Corey would just beat the shit out of all of them. He's like he's the toughest guy you've ever met. So it was like that was one of my favorites. He would just tell stories forever before he became famous.
In one Top Chef, did you ever have a favorite restaurant in your life before you know you had everything thrust upon you that you have had.
Yeah, I mean I had a couple. You know, there's one in the west Loop called a Vec was always one of my favorites. That was mine of my wife's first date. That one was always, you know, really special one to me. Lula Cafe up in Logan Square just you know, an absolute jab And I mean for me, like the real like you know, the og spot. For me, I grew up like eighty fourth in Saint Louis. I grew up in Ashburn, so it's like I grew up two blocks away from Vito and Knicks, So it's like.
That for me is like you know, home preparation for football, whether you're a player or you're a broadcaster, you spend a lot of time watching tape and kind of you become familiar with your opponent and what they do well and what they don't do well. When you go into a restaurant before you you know, ran a business of your own, were you always taken mental notes about serving, preparation, taste or delivery and the kind of same things that I would be paying attention to watching football.
For sure, especially when I traveled, you know what I mean, especially if I went like if I went over to Italy or if I went to Croatia, I would bring, you know, a notebook with me and I wouldn't bring it to dinner, but at the end of the night, I'd go home and I just I'd write, you know what I mean, I'd be like, Okay, you know, went to this cafe this morning. I like the way they served their espresso with a little spark clean water and they put it
on a tray and that was really nice. And like I noticed this little thing, or like I had this dish and I like this about it. Didn't like this about it, but I think it's a good idea, Like you know, come back to it and just kind of just kind of like track what was happening so I could go back and look at it. And I still, you know, and even now with kind of the chefs I have under me, when they go out, you know, or if they go on a trip and they come back,
I'm like, Okay, what did you eat? Where did you eat? Oh? You made it this place? What did you like about it? What did you see there that was really good? You know? What did you see there that was kind of a strange to you, you know what I mean, what service thing did you think was a nice touch? And just like so we're always kind of the same way for
you guys. You know, you're always having football conversations, right, You're always thinking about, you know, how do we improve It's the same idea where it's like I want you know, I'm always thinking about it. And even if I'm in a restaurant, I can kind of turn it off and be like, Okay, these aren't my problems, But it doesn't mean I can't not see it, you know what I mean.
Like if I can hear your ticket printer, I can hear that take a printer going off, And I'm looking around the room and I'm like, okay, this is Shit's about to hit the fan in this room, Like you know what i mean, I'm counting the servers on the floor. I'm looking back at the kitchen. You have a your down a line cook, you have eleven tickets on the board. You get two guys cranking it out, you got two
servers both working eleven table sections. Like this is about to be We're gonna be here for another hour and a half. Waiting for stuff.
You're like a coach. You're like a coach.
Did you ever have the occasion to go to Fair Brother's Restaurant in Joliet.
No, no, I have. You know, it's funny. I worked at a bar out on the line of like where Juliette hits Mookina hits New Lennox. It was like Schoolhouse Road in twenty maybe those intersect out there. I think it is King in Highway twenty. My buddy's dad opened this bar and he just you know, yeah me. I was like nineteen, and he's like, yeah, you're just gonna do all the stuff. And I was like, yeah, sure,
I love it. You know what I mean. I'm laid tile, I dug out beer garden, changed kegs, whatever you need it. And it is like, you know, people don't know about South suburbs. It's a whole other world out there. It is just like it blew my mind. It's wild. It's such a mix of people out there. It was fun as hell, but it was. It was a wild time my mom and my brother.
It's it's every single day job, you know, there is I always tell people there's no year over the hump or everything's downhill from here because you're putting together. You're putting together a group and a team of people, just like a head coach would bring a coaching staff and a team together. So I just think that the effort and the work that goes into the everyday operation of a restaurant sometimes people don't realize it when they open the.
Door and they get great fried chicken for whatever. The price is right.
And it's you know, it's one of those things I always tell, you know, when people are like, oh, I'm you know, a friend, they're thinking about getting into it or whatever, you know, I always tell them, and I'm really straightforward about it, like I'm not trying to talk to anybody in this industry. I'm not trying to talk about but it's like I'm just trying to be honest about it. I'm like, it's not a great job. It's a really hard job. It can be a very thankfus job.
I'm like, if you can wake up tomorrow and you can imagine doing anything else, go do that. It's a better job. I love this. I don't want to wake up tomorrow and do anything else. I cannot fathom it, you know. I go so it's a great career for me because I love it, but it's not a great job. So if it's just something where you're like, oh, I think I kind of want to do this, it's like, man, do anything else.
Well, one thing just to analogize that is when the latest version of the Stars Born movie was made between Bradley Cooper and Lady Gaga, Bradley Cooper went to Eddie Vedder from Pearl Jam and asked him about how do you become a musician to play this role? And Eddie Vedder says, don't do it because you're not going to be good at it. It's too difficult of a role of playing the guitar and singing. You know, you run
that fine line. You don't want to discourage people. But if someone has their mindset to go and take that task on, they just have to realize from a top sh how difficult of a day to day operation it is.
And I think, you know, you guys do something at a super high level, you know what I mean, time you played at the highest level, and it's like the amount of you know, like sacrifice that goes into it. There's no real shortcuts for that, you know what I mean, there's some people who are wildly natural talented in all things, right, but it's still it's like usually those people are also like some of the hardest working people in the road. And so I think it's just one of those things
where it's like, yeah, you can do this. There's nothing wildly special about me, but it's just it's a hell of a lot of sacrifice and hard work.
Oh yeah, you guys put on some unbelievable displays of creativity and passion. And I'm sitting there at Rosemary, which is one of my favorite places ever to go, and I'm sitting there at the counter on a couple of occasions just watching, you know, for an offensive lineman, it's elephants on parade. Right, everything is like in synchronicity, and these big guys are just moving. That's the way the kitchen is, and that's not easy. Everything's happening at once.
It's non stop. And that's the same way to call a game. It's you're dialed and it's non stop, right, And I think.
People, you know, look at it and they see you know, they see where you are and not where you came from. Right, So it's easy to say, like, oh, yeah. You know, you guys just show up in call Bears game, right, that's just you know what I mean, you just decided it one day, Hey, Like you saw that ad on Craigslisted. He said, yeah, I'll throw my hat in the writ.
You know, you know, just a couple of guys called place, and it's like, I think, you know, it's the same thing even, you know, it's like as much as like especially now, it's like they could google any of us and they can figure out, you know, our whole career charactory and what we've done where we've worked with all of it that goes into it. And people, you know, they still walk in the restaurant every day and they're like, oh, so did you cook before this?
Oh my god, Joe.
It's like Joe, it's like, I haven't done anything else for the past twenty years, Joe, I don't have any other skills whatsoever.
Hand to God, this happened more than we care to admit. Tom and Jeff, are you guys going to be at the game on Sunday? Oh, yeah, it happened.
I mean I'm not joking.
Yeah that I don't know.
We might call it. Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean, oh my gosh, let's just watch this one out in the garage at Thayer's house, and you do have a couple of pops.
Unbelievable.
This is the Bears et cetera podcast, episode fifty one. Game Day snacking calls for good foods. Chunky guacamodle made with has avocados, tomatoes, onion, cilantro, and a squeeze of lime juice. It's the perfect snack to watch while the Bears win. Score some today at your local grocery store. Game Day is guak Day and our special guest on episode fifty one Joe Flamm Joe, what got you started?
I got started in this industry when I was fifteen, sixteen years old, and I just you know, I needed a job like anybody else high school kid and needed a job. I started. I was a bus boy at this place and my sister worked at and then my buddy, his dad ran a place out and pay the sites. He was like, hey, when you turn sixteen and you can drive, I can get you a job there. And it was a little better job, but I didn't have to work with my older sister, so that was appealing
as well for me. It was instant I fell in love with restaurants. First. I was like, this is the best, Like it was the place where I just felt I felt like home, like I found my people, I had found, you know, a place where I felt really comfortable. I started really coming out of my shell. And you know, I just I loved everything about it. I loved the late nights, I loved the hard work. I loved you know, meeting people and talking to people and just the chaoss
of it all. You know, it was completely insane. You know, I didn't know any chefs. This place was like a neighborhood bar grill that it was like you know what I mean. There were there were dudes who worked in the kitchen who were like we had guys who were there six months a year. They would go back to Mexico. The other crew would come through for six months a year, and like that's how that kitchen ran there. And they just rotated them in and out. Like it wasn't you know, chefs,
it wasn't white hats, wasn't anything like that. But it made me, you know, fall in love with it. And so my plan at the time was, you know, the guy who owned the place was a lawyer. So I was like, all right, well, if you want to open a restaurant, you got to go be a lawyer and make a bunch of money and then you could, you know, buy a restaurant when you're fifty. So that was my plan.
I was to you know, go to school for you know, accounting, get my degree, go to law school, become a lawyer, try to make a bunch of money, and try to buy a bar and grill when I was fifty.
Your timeline was elevated significantly.
Yeah. So I was about two and a half years and to an accounting degree, and I decided, you know, I had spent about seven months cooking for this place, and I just like really then fell in love with the cooking aspect of it. I had grown up cooking. I always loved food, but I had never done it professionally. In this place, you know, it was kind of one of those where they were like, oh, hey, we need somebody to work at pizza station. You know how to
do that? And I was like, yeah, yeah, I know how to do that, not knowing how to do that at all, and just kind of, you know, fake it till I made it. So I spent about seven months there, and you know, I'd left to work in an office and because I was like, yeah, I need to start to get you know, my real career going. And all I could think about was cooking. I was like, man, that was the best. So I literally one day I just googled. I was like, how did Emeralagassi become a chef?
And so I was like, oh, we went to culinary school. I was like, what's culinary school? So then I found a culinary school. And then so about two months later, I was like, you know what, I'm gonna drop out of college and I'm gonna go to culinary school. So I dropped out of college and just went all in on it. I you know, moved back to my parents' house and on the South side, lived in the basement and just was like all I did for you know, culinary school is like fifteen months. It's that, you know,
like real college. And I started there a week later. I started at table fifty two, and you know, five days a week, I went to school from eight to four. Six days a week, I went to the restaurant. You know, I go straight from school to the restaurant. I worked doubles on the weekends, and you know, that was my first year and a half as a cook. It was just like all I did was you know, cook like it just you know, I was terrible. I was you know,
I just was burnt everywhere. I used to carry super glue in all my pockets so I could glue pieces of me back together when I cut myself so many times and just kept coming back, just kept coming back. And I was like, you know, I think I was so surprised they didn't fire me. And I think they were so surprised that I didn't quit that they just you know, let me stay for two years, you know, and until I finally figured out how to actually cook a little bit.
You know, Joe, there's a little restaurant in Ola Walu, Maui and it's called Leota's and that's the name of the grandmother of the family that owns it, and they specialize in little pies and sandwiches. And when my mom taught me to cook, she would put all the ingredients in a bag and send me home with it, knowing that I would have to call her a couple of times, and it would increase the amount of times I talked to her in Rosemary.
That's the name of your grandmother. Is that true?
Yes, So it's Rose was my my dad's mom, Marrish grandmother, and then Mary is my mom's mom. Uh, Mary's Mary's you know. The idea was Rosemary because Rosemary, the herb grows all along the Adriatic coast right through Italy through Croatia, and in both Italian and Croatian cultures it's a sign of, you know, good luck and good fortune. So like when I got married, there was Rosemary in all the vases on the tables. Like it's kind of like an old school thing, but I thought it'd be cool. It's just
kind of a nod to them to do this. The two work and says, you know, rose get married, and you know, my grandma Mary is ninety four now. But it's like we still you know what I mean, like for the holidays and stuff, we're still doing Feasts of the Seven Fishes. We still make reveolis for Thanksgiving, and
you know, and she doesn't cook anymore. She's not like getting in the kitchen, but you know, she's still like she'll throw the apron on and then she'll kind of get her a little, you know, seat and just like overwatching everything and you know what I mean, And I got to tell her all the numbers and you know, and then it's like her asking me about how much money I spent on fish and thinking I'm lying to her and not telling her enough, you know what I mean,
And she's she's ninety four. But it's like, you know, this year, it's like the price of scalps went them. So she's like, well, how much would the scalp? So I was like, well, they were like two hundred and twenty five bucks for a gallon of She's like, well they were three twenty last year. Yeah they were, but like I didn't even remember that, but it's like, you know, I'm like, yeah, they were, like you know that the that was last year, like you know, the market was tighter.
And she's like all right, well, better not be lying to me.
Were they the influences in your cooking life or is it something that you know, you kind of took a road by yourself and then you developed into the chef that you've become.
I mean a little bit of both. I think they were. You know, my grandma made me fall in love with traditions. You know, they're coming from a big family, and I just saw, like, you know, it was such a cool thing of like having these cooking traditions, and I just assumed, you know, kind of everybody had these, you know what I mean, everybody was doing their their Christmas Eve, the feasts of the Seven Fishes, making ready at least from
scratch with Thanksgiving. And you know, the older I got, the more special I realized all these things were, you know, that time I got with her where we're you know, cleaning squid on newspapers in the mud room, you know, like getting them ready, Like how special and unique that was. And I loved, you know, even before I got into you know, cooking professionally, like me and my grandma would cook all the holidays together because I just loved the
tradition of it. I loved everybody getting together and I just thought it was amazing. I never wanted those things to go away, and so that was kind of a big, you know, motivator for me. But as I got into the professional chef world, they were very much like, you know,
like what in the hell are you doing? Like what why are you dropping out of college to like, you know, cook, Like why don't you get a degree, why don't you get a law degree and then if you still want to, you know, go play chef, you can, you know what I mean, go play chef. So so there wasn't a
lot of encouragement in the early years. It was a lot of you know, Christmases and Thanksgiving where people were very excited that I was cooking, but also you know, all my aunts and uncles being like, so, you know, when are we gonna when are we gonna go back and finish that degree? You know what I mean, Like what are you gonna really do? Like when are you
gonna stop you know what I mean? Messing around? And you know, so it took about It was probably about, you know, I think seven or eight years into my cooking career, and I think I was at my first Sioux chef job and I was working at Girl and the Goat and they were getting a lot of press and it was really big. I remember I was driving somewhere with my dad and he's like, he's like, so
you're you're pretty serious about this cooking thing. Huh, You're gonna this is like what you're going I was like, I've been doing this for seven years, dad, you know what I mean, Like what do you what do you think I was gonna do? You know, Like I was like, yeah, man, He's like, okay, well I still think you should get a degree.
So was there a chip ever put on your shoulder by a fellow chef or somebody that had been established in this business?
Said young man, I don't know if you got it, you may.
Want to think about something else, or are you just naturally gifted at it.
I'm definitely not naturally gifted at it, you know what I mean. I was definitely never the best cook in the kitchen, you know. And my best friend owed three restaurants in Detroit, and he was one of those guys where he is a phenomenal athlete. He's just one of those people if you teach him how to do anything, you know, he'll be better at better at it than you by the time you're done. And so it was just he was my station partner, and so he was
the push, you know what I mean. This dude set a ridiculous standard of like this is how we work. So I was always always playing catch up with him, and you know, I worked around a ton of really talented people and just kind of coming through it like one I had the thing in the back of the mind of everyone in my family telling me to go back to school. So I was like, I can't fail. There's no back on this, Like I'm all in on this.
This is the only road, like I am going. The one that really put a chip on my shoulder, though, was I remember. I went and I, you know, I've been cooking for a while and a sooux chef two great places, and I went, I applied to me a sooux chef at this Italian restaurant I really wanted to work at. I went through the process, did a taste, and go all the way down. Chef calls me in and I'm like, you know. I call my buddy on the way there. I'm like, hey, Joe, I'm like, I
got you know, chef called me in. I got this job. I'm like, this is awesome. I can't wait to work at this restaurant. Blah blah blah. I go in there, I sit down and he goes, hey, man, I came down to you and another guy he worked for us before. You never worked for us, he goes, So we went the other direction. So I end up taking a soux chef job at another Italian restaurant down the street. And so the second I stepped the foot, my foot in the door there, I was just like, let's go, like
we are so we are going to push hard. We are going to make sure. You know, I'm like, my time here is going to be you know, spent the best way I can. And I ended up being you know, taken over. You know that was at Spiage. I ended up taking over Spiage as a chef and you know, being the chef there for five years and keeping a Michelin Star for five years. We're the only Italian restaurant
in Chicago ever to have a Michelin Star. So it was like one of those where it's just kind of like, you know, we really you know, it was like fine, like you know what I mean, you guys don't want me. I'm going here and I'm going to show everybody I belong to be here.
Oh my god.
It's just like an athlete you had to turn in your cookbook, time had to turn in his playbook.
Yeah yeah, but you know the thing also to analogize again, you know, you talk to your dad.
You said, I've been in this for seven years.
This is going to be my career path the average life expectancy of an NFL player's two point three years or maybe.
Two point it's up to three point one.
Now, okay, three point one.
Is there a realization can you recognize it early in their career of who has it and who doesn't?
Well, I think, you know what, I'm sure it's the same way you know you probably feel about looking at players where it's like, you know, when I was twenty two, when I was coming up and I was in a kitchen, I was like, oh, everyone around me is so talented, and this is you know, we're all so amazing, Like we're all going to be chefs in ten years, right, all of us are going to have restaurants, And you kind of have that mindset, right, like we're all still
going to be doing this in ten years, twenty year, study years. And the further I got down that road, the older I got, the more you realize how great the falloff is, and you know, like how much of this is just about you know, perseverance and sticking around and keeping staying in the fight. And you know, now being you know, twenty years in being older, having opened my own restaurant, having been a part of a lot of
restaurant opening. Now you have a lot more where it's like I can talk to a young cooker, a young Sioux chef. You see those ones where you're like, they're that person special, like they're gonna do things right, and you can see that dry even them, and that pushing them. And you know, sometimes people surprise you, you know, I mean, there's always that, but it's you know, I think it's like now it's a lot easier to have the realization of like, just because all these people are cooks doesn't
mean they're all going to be chefs. And it doesn't mean they have to be either. You mean, my path is not the only path. There's a lot of paths in this in this world. And it's not saying it's the best path either, but it's just so what I try to do is just try to help them find their path right and be like, hey, you can go a lot of ways with this. I'm just trying to give you a set of skills that, you know, what I mean, is hopefully going to give you a living that you really enjoy.
Hey, Joe, I never had a plan B. Either it was NFL or I don't know what else. If you had a Plan B. Is there any time throughout the course of growing the success of your career you've made have gone to Plan B?
Or was it like me where there was no there was no other option?
Yeah, I mean once I started cooking, I never had a Plan B. The only time I think I really going to start thinking about it was I was like a stay at home dad during COVID for a year and a half because all the restaurants, you know, were closed, and I was trying to open Rosemary and so it was all the stuff. And I remember, like, you know, I was running a lot and I was just like running through the woods one day and I was like, well, what if just like restaurants never come back. I think,
what am I gonna do. My buddy had just got on as like an FBI special agent, and I was like, how much work would I have to do to convince these guys that I could be a part of the FBI. I was like, no one would suspect me at least, so maybe I could talk to a mid that you know what I mean, Like, like you know what I mean? I was like, I think the best thing I get going for me is that, you know what I mean? I'm covered in tattoos, I look like an asshole, don't
look like a cop. But like you know, I think I'd have to do a lot of work to get there. But that was kind of the plan. Base.
When it's time to tackle some game day deals, then go with a grocery who's been part of Chicago since eighteen ninety nine, Jewelasco, the official grocery store of the Chicago bears here with Joe Flamm, the unbelievable chef at multiple restaurants in his career. But right now, rose Mary, do we call it boulevard? Do we call it by the initial?
Well, if we call it, we call it boulevard, it's the initial. Is what we call it? Bull? All right?
We called boulevard.
We got to hear about your experience on Top Chef and what that did for you and your publicity as a top chef in this in this world?
What's it like?
What's it really like? What are you at liberty to say what it's really like? And how did you capture that? In Top Chef fifteen in Colorado.
Yeah, so you know, Top Chef is a wild one. It's I got on the show because they came to cast in Chicago. I didn't know they were casting in Chicago. I didn't go to the casting I didn't try out, and they they called. I was working for Tony mount Tojana at the time, so they called Tony. They knew him from other stuff, and they said, hey, you got a chef in Chicago. We're trying to cast season fifteen, the Top Chef. We met a bunch of people. We didn't like anybody. Do you know anybody we should meet?
And he goes, yeah, I got this guy working for me. He goes, he got to you gotta meet. So I get a call a couple of minutes later from Tony and he's, you know, hey, Chef. He's like, hey, the Top Chef producers are in town. They want to meet you. And I'm like, for what, and he's like he's like listen, you know. He's like take a meeting.
And I was like, all right, fine, Tom and Tony, yeah, yeah.
This is you know, Tony's the OG, you know what I mean, founder of s Piaga, So you know what I mean. It's like, he's my mentor, he's one of my best friends. So Tony says, take a meeting. I take a meeting. So I'm like, all right, cool, send them over, like coming over. I talked to these people for you know, forty minutes, and this lady's like and I'm like, they don't want me on the show, Like
they don't like I'm like, I'm not interested. I'm like a regular just southside you know, Chicago ass person, like you know what I mean. I'm like every other dude I grew up with, like, And I was like, they're not going to be interested in this. So I talked to him for forty minutes and this lady's like, you gotta do it. He's like it's a long road, but you got to do it. And I was like, all right, I'll try. And so I was like, I'm not going to make it on the show. So we go down
this path. We go down this path. We do all these things. You know, you have to do interviews and you send them menus and videos and all this. It takes months. I got to do a PSYCHICXAAL exam, I do a physical exam, all these things. So finally it's like April nineteenth, I get a call. They're like, hey, this is Stop Chef. You're on season fifteen. You need to be in Colorado. May fifth you yet two and a half weeks to prepare. You can't tell anyone where you're going, so I have to come up with a
cover story. So I come up with the cover story that I'm going to work at Tony's other restaurant in Florida for two months because they need help down there. So I told like him, I tell my wife, I told my parents, but I can't tell my crew. I can't tell you know what, I mean, my friends. I you know, my brother was in high school at the time, so I was like, I didn't tell him. I didn't tell any of my siblings. I was just like, yeah, I'm going to work at this restaurant down in Florida. Whatever.
And then when you get there day one, they throw in a hotel room. They lock in there and they come on the first night and then they go through all your stuff and they take all your stuff. So they take your phone, your keys, your wallet, everything, and you don't get any of that back till you're I'm filming two months later.
Wait what why So they don't.
Because they don't want because you aren't allowed to have any access to recipes. So whatever, you know, you know, you can't like google a recipe real quick and be like, how do I make this cake or whatever, So you have, you know, no internet access. They don't want you to have contact with the outside world because you have to sign a million dollar NDA before you go to They don't want you to be able to like text and be like, oh I lost. They don't want you taking
pictures of what's going on while you're there. You basically how it works is then every like three to five days, you'd get a phone call and it'd be ten minutes on camera, on speakerphone, on a producer's phone, and you can't say.
Anything, Wow, this is stunning, Tom.
Did you have any idea this was the case? No, this is fascinating to keep going.
Yes, you know, you'd get a phone call every once in a while, but they wanted you just dialed into the pressure. It was like there was no TV, there was no books, there was no magazines nothing. All you did was you film and cook, do interviews, and so you went every day for two months and if you went out the first day, you were there for two months. If you went to the final like I did, you're there for two months. So no matter what you signed a two month commit and your whole life outside of
that just went on pause. So you just disappear for two months, even if you lost. Even if you lost. So then they send you like a hotel like way out in the burbs, away from where we're filming. And then you got a bunch of chefs because I got kicked off for a minute, right, So I got kicked off for a minute, So I get sent to the other hotel. And so now you got ten chefs in a hotel who can't work, have no phones, nothing whatever.
We just have They're giving us cash every day. We have nothing to do alimited todd So it's just like it's like spring break, Like it's just like complete insanity, you know what I mean. Camp. It's like you like walk in and you're just like I walked in the first day and I walk up and there's a somebody had taken a window off of the like one of the rooms so that you could walk into the room from the pool area, so that you didn't have to
walk around to the door. So they just pop the window off of the off of the wall so that we could walk through there. And just you know what I mean, they were making drinks in there, and you go back outside and everybody's partying, and it was just like it was an absolute just insanity. So that's like where everybody else was. So then it was like I finally made it back on the show, and it was
just it was insane, you know what I mean. It was like you woke up every day, you had no time, You had no idea what time you're gonna wake up, You had no idea what you were doing. So it's just like you woke up every day to cameras or it's just like somebody would knock at the door and you'd open the door and there'd be four cameras there, and you all right, I guess we're rolling.
It's hard knocks, right, it's hard knock.
And you get in the car and we'd be like where are we going today, and they're like, can't tell you. So you never knew what was going on, and you just you know, I mean, it was like literal you know, we used to call it emotional terrorism, like it was just you know, like any time something happened, you just became so suspicious because you're like you'd like wake up
and like something we'd be moved in the kitchen. You'd be like, oh no, something weird's gonna happen, Like they're gonna make us cooking here, or you know what I mean, like something. You know, it's like if something was off, you're like, oh no, this is like part of something, you know what I mean. Everything was part of something. It was all like a setup the some crazy challenge. So it was just like it was nuts, you know. And so you go, you do this thing two months, right,
I go, I win. I'm like yes, But then it's like you get back and nobody knows you want nobody even knows you were there, and you know, it was kind of funny because it's like in real life. I won Top Chef on a Tuesday night at midnight on top of the mountain and the aspen, and then they took me off of there. They brought me to interview and then they take you back to the hotel and that's it, you know what I mean. And it's like you can't go party with anyone, you can't go out.
You're still under lock and key. I still don't have a phone, you know what I mean. I called my wife at two am on a Tuesday to tell her I want one, and then I get back and it's like, oh, you know, you can't tell anybody because you're under all these NDAs from the time I got back, like end of June in twenty seventeen, and the finale aired March eighth of twenty eighteen.
After it was all said and done, are you glad you made the decision to go or if you knew all that stuff going in, what made it harder for you to commit to it?
I think it was one of those things where it's like you're almost better not knowing. I think it would have been harder because they kind of lie to you, you know what I mean. They're like, oh, yeah, you're going to make a phone call, You're gonna do some emails. Yeah, I don't worry about it, Like we gotcha, you know, Like, and then you get there, they're like, yeah, you're not making a phone call for five days. You're like, can somebody like text my wife and tell her I'm alive.
It's like I got on a plane two days ago. Oh my god, Like you know what I mean. So it was kind of good not knowing all of it. And I mean for me, it's like you know, I was so happy I did it, obviously one so that's you know, like one of the people was on the show with me. It's like somebody asked me to go you happy you did it, like you won. Of course he's happy you did it, you know what I mean. But even if I didn't, I would have been happy I did it. It was such a unique experience. You know.
We got to travel some really cool places, I made some amazing friends, and I mean, it's just, you know, it's one of those things, it's like it's beyond my wildest dreams.
So every year of my bare career, I would go to training camp at University wisconsint Platteville, which kind of in the middle of nowhere. We didn't have cell phones at that time. He didn't have a lot of time to communicate the sense of accomplishment I had. When I was driving home after Plattville was over and I retained my position, I stayed healthy. I knew that I was driving back to my house in a starter's role. It was such a sense of relief that it kind of
overtook you at times. It had to be similar to that in kind of the same sense, because you're isolated, you're not talking to anybody, and then a sense of accomplishment that you feel when it's all said and done, it's going to do incredible things for your career, just like it did for my career.
Yeah, so, I mean it was I remember, like, so the finale finishes right, and it was like we were literally on top of a mountain, so they had to get me to the bottom and they were going to
stop running the gondola sing. So it's like if you if you watch the finale, you like see that laugh acondo me like toasting champagne and literally I am in that room for about four more seconds and then they run me into a gondola and the gondola at Aspen is about a half hour gondola rived down right, So it's just me and this woman Maria, who's my handler. Two of us are now sitting in a gondola in the pitch dark. Don't run a mountain. This is just nuts.
This is nice and so and I'm like, I just on top chef and I'm just like sitting there and I'm like I'm like sitting there like this, and she just looks at me. She's like, like, uh, do you want to like yell or something. I'm like, yeah, she like opens all the windows on the gundoline and I'm like, you know, like screaming and like so it was like crazy.
And then it was like, you know, like you said time, like coming home, it's like, you know, I'm sitting on the plane like like just like blinking, like did this happen? Like is this real? You know what I mean? Like it's just like and now I'm just like and it's like I get on the plane, I go back, and then it's like, you know, it's whatever. It's Sunday. So I get home and then it's like I go to work on Tuesday.
And I got to act like nothing ever has just gone.
I was just gone for me. I don't worry about it. You know. It was just it was such an insane ride. And then you know, when the season started air, it just blew up and it was so fodded just you know, yeah, Chicago's so cool. It's such a Homer city, right, we go so hard, we go so hard, and I just love it. And it just you felt that, you know what I mean, so much when I was on the show, just like everybody, you know what I mean like the
city was pulling for me. It was so cool, and it was you know, I think I told Jeff this story once, but I had, you know, like a like, you know, my Friday Night Lights moment. I was like, you know, we're down to the bottom three. And I was like, I had a Whole Foods and I was walking out of the Whole Foods and I was like paying and this guy you know, and I was like I just just got finished paying. This guy's like he's like, great, Joe, We're all rooting for you. And I was like, oh, thanks.
Every start going outs and it was like so cool. I was like, this is just bonkers, man, this is just so wild. There's so fun.
Busy Heart Seltzer the official Heart Seltzer or the Chicago Bears here on the Bears et cetera podcast. So you made a fish dish in your first quick fire on the show. Would you have made that again?
Yeah? I think so that one worked out really well, so I would. I would run that one back. It was a rent snapper I cooked in the wood fired oven with fennel. I think car car orange segments and maybe olives. I can't remember if I did that too. Maybe a little bit of Fenel.
Calling best dish you ever made on Top Chef and has it or is it on any of your menus at your restaurants?
The best dish I ever made on Top Chef was probably I did this pasta in the finale that was like it was a grano arso flower, so a burnt wheat flower, and I made this farce for it that was like a truffle pighead barse, and then made a broto for it, so it was like a Tortelinian broto. But they came out like just stunny, like they were just like they had this like like like river rock looking like quality to it, and they were unbelievable. And that's probably you know what won made the finale, but
it's not at a menu. It took two days to make twelve of them, really, you know, so it was like, you know, it doesn't really work as like a practical dish. It was like, okay, this is you know what I mean, one of those things where it's like this can't be a real play in the playbook, but like you know what I mean, like if we're down six and two seconds to go, we could we can we can huk this.
One tell us about the bear Den.
That was funny. So, you know, me, Tyler and Bruce, they just started calling us the bear Den because I think we're you know, they put you in these rooms, they don't tell you you're sharing rooms. And then all of a sudden, it's like I got three roommates and we're sleeping on a Kia bunk beds that were made for someone much not of my stature. And so that was, you know, just kind of a fun you know, we were all grouped up together and we just had a lot of fun with that.
Do you like the national attention?
Yeah, I think it's fun, you know what I mean. It's like and I think it's also you know, I was telling somebody those like, oh it's weird, you know, I like people know you and it's like, well, I mean I grew up on the South Side, like everybody knows everybody, you know what I mean. It's just kind of the way it is, so it doesn't feel weird. It's just like, oh, okay, I just meet more people, you know what I mean. It never feels to me like, oh, like, oh,
you're like famous. It's like I don't think so I think a few more people know who I am, and like, you know, those shows are fun, but it's like for me, it's like the love is restaurants. That's my thing over everything. So to be able to use those to put our restaurants out there and meet people on network, like that's a blast. Like it's cool, you know what I mean. I've had people in the restaurant because of that, or you know, been able to do things that I just, you know, never even dreamed of.
Who's your Super Bowl pick at this time?
I think the Ravens look really scary. I think they look really really good, and I think it's I feel like it's going to be Ravens Niners, And I think the Ravens are just going to be too much. They just look really complete this year. And I love Rokwan, you know what I mean. He used to come into the restaurant all the time, so I'd love to see it for him. He's a great guy. I don't know, I feel like they're gonna be hard to.
Be like top Shelf, is there a home field advantage? Do you become so familiar with the kitchen and the pantry and everything that you can do everything as opposed to a neutral site that a Super Bowl will have.
Well, it's it's like always cooking in a neutral site, right, but nobody has the home field advantage because it's like in the kitchen changes so much and so and it's like when we're in Colorado, so we're dealing with you know, elements like we're cooking that you know, altitude. We're flat laders over here, right, that's not what we do, and so it's completely different ballgame doing that. You know, we
cooked at one restaurant that was fourteen thousand feet. When you're at fourteen thousand feet, you know what I mean, Like you know, the difference of playing in Chicago versus playing in Denver. Right, So it's like that feeling of it. So and it's like multiply that by three and then cook and so you know, when you get to those altitudes, like you know, they talked about like water boils at a lower temperature, right, so you could you know, and before I was on the show, I didn't really get
how that affected things. But realizing that like, yeah, water's going to boil at one to eighty seven at fourteen thousand feet or whatever, it is, the problem is it's like that water's not hot, you could sit in it. So it's like when you're cooking pasta, it's like this water isn't really boiling, it's just evaporating. So it's like to try to get water hot enough before it operated to like properly cook pasta or blanch vegetables or do
anything was like a total nightmare. And it's like, there's no way to prepare for that unless you've ever cooked at altitude those like there was one chef there who she was from Colorado. You know, she had worked at some higher elevation places, so she had a little bit home field on that, but still it was like, you know, the place we were cooking that was such high elevation, like nobody, nobody had ever done it.
Have you ever done any private cooking for celebrities or politicians, whatever the case may be.
I've cooked. I've actually I've cooked for four presidents, which is pretty crazy.
Wow.
So I've cooked for HW Bush, I've cooked for w I've cooked for Obama, and I've cooked for Biden, No kidding, Biden Biden before he was president. He was I did the last one of the coolest ones we did was a luncheon at the State Department, and it was the last State Department luncheon for the Obama Biden administration for Renzi, who was the Prime Minister of Italy at the time.
So they brought Tony Mountjano in because Biagio was Renzi's favorite Italian restaurant in Chicago was Brock's favorite Italian restaurant Chicago, so they brought us in to do the luncheon. You know, I mean, like plating your food on official State department in China is a pretty wild feeling.
Wow.
Like one of my favorite pictures ever is there's a picture of me and I'm standing in the hallway at
the State Department. I'm plating like one hundred and fifty plates for lunch, and it's like me and then there is like probably ten people behind me, and it's like this police that police secret service, like FBI, like you know what I mean, just like there's nothing but like eleven people behind me with different badges and guns like watching me plate like this really delicate little you know, like roasted squash dish that I made, and it was just like it's hysterical.
Eh, you probably could have talked shop your mom if I'm not mistaken. Is she still a lieutenant in the Chicago Police Department.
No, my mom has been retired a few years now. But yeah, she was thirty years on the job. She was a lieutenant on the South Side.
Sounds like she would have been pretty tough, pretty tough.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she still got it.
Well, Joe, we could continue talking forever, but I just want to thank you for all your time.
I know your time is valuable. We love that you're a Bears fan.
You love the fact that it's ingrained in your blood, and we love what you prepare at Rosemary.
I'm a big fan of the Nyolchi Tommy with the beef cheek.
Love, love the risotto, different kinds of risotto, and the croatia.
Is it la pingja bread?
Yeah?
That bread is insane.
I don't know how that happens, but that's fantastic.
It's insane. You can't get enough of it, that's for sure.
Well. I've always been, you know, really big fans of you guys, and you know, like I've been listens to Bears games on the radio since I remember can remember, and you know from when the radio the TV used to time up a little bit better, and we'd have it going on the radio to the TV, or if my dad would get so mad at the Bears at halftime, he'd just, you know, like all right, we're going off
to the garage. We put the game on the radio because for some reason, it's less frustrating but more frustrating listening to the game of the radio. And you know the amount of times where it's like working Sundays coming through where it's like we'd have the Bears game going on some prep kitchen basement, you know, I mean, I Randolph for the Gold Coast. Uh, you know, just screaming you know what I mean at the radio with you guys.
So it's really cool to be on this and uh, you know the first time you came in, Jeff By, my old chef de cuisine, He's like, do you think we could just get him to say, you know, Devin Hester, he's unbelievable.
No, no, it's Devin Hester. You are ridiculous.
That's what you gotta do us.
Yeah, yeah, that's what that was the callie want. He said, you think you just stand on the counter and yell at once for us? And I was like, maybe wait till the second time he comes in, we can get him to.
Do it right.
Hey, I'll do it. You get you get a couple of drinks in me, I'll do it for sure.
Yeah, yeah, there we go.
We gotta get Tommy out there as well.
H Again, we're brought to you by Middle of Light, the official beer of the Chicago Bears. Taste like Mill Time Chicago Joe continued success. Best to you and your family and have a great year, buddy.
Guys, absolute blessed. Thanks for having me on.
Awesome thrill So thank you so much for your time.
Oh no, this was this was really cool.
Guys, Tommy, how much fun was that?
I mean, you know, we can talk to that guy about all things. He knows his sports, but there's not enough time to talk about a career like that. He is literally a top chef, and not just because of the show.
You think of the highest accomplished athlete that we've ever been able to talk to throughout our career.
He is that in the food field. And it's amazing.
Because I think we've only scratched the surface of what we could. How we could keep going talking about the Bears, talking about the draft, talking about other football teams, but there's a thousand questions in cooking that I would love to be able.
To sit here and ask him.
The versatility of his ability is which impressed me most because we asked him a football question and he went for ten minutes and every single thing he said about his football knowledge was right on. And so that's the first thing. Oh my god, that's impressive.
Game day snacking calls for good foods. Chunky guacamodi made with has avocados, tomatoes on silatro on a squeeze of lime juice. It's the perfect snack to watch while the Bears win. Score something today at your local grocery store. Game day is guac day. All right, Let's wrap things up as we look at the Bears are are looking at some coordinators. Obviously they need to find one, and reportedly the interviews include San Francisco passing game coordinator Clint Kubiak,
the son of Gary Kubiak. He was an offensive coordinator in Minnesota, Denver's quarterback coach at Russell Wilson, Greg Roman, the former Baltimore offensive coordinator developing Lamar Jackson who won
an MVP with Roman. Kentucky offensive coordinator Liam Cohen, who has ties to the Rams where he was with that football team over there on that coach, and Shane Waldron, the Seattle offensive coordinator, Greg Olsen, our old pal, the former Bears quarterback coach at three who's had several stops Detroit, the Rams, Tampa, Oakland, Jacksonville, Vegas. So a lot of experience, some young is a nice blend of options here. I'm not aware of any others that they have talked to
or win. I don't know what the timeline is, but again these are all reportedly. It's a lot from that Shanahan Tree.
Tom. That Shanahan Tree is very much a part of this.
You know, Jeff, we could talk to about one hundred different names and consideration for the offensive coordinator position. But to me, the decision on quarterback is equally as important is the quarter as the offensive coordinator, because you have to get the evaluation of the new offensive coordinator as he looks at and studies what the Bears have done in the past, how his philosophical thinking of quarterback offense development fits into how the quarterback position is developing. So
this is not just a one and done decision. This is a big impact decision. How it affects the offensive line, it affects the offense, it affects the receiver position, and it affects the quarterback position the most. So I think there's a lot of thinking that goes into every one of these candidates.
Do you feel a sense of optimism versus a sense of dread, like, oh god, we got a big hill decline?
I feel more optimism after watching the first round of the playoffs than I did before the playoff game started, because when I look at what Green Bay went into Dallas and did to them in how you know, touch and go it was for the last game of the year with the Green Bay Packers and the Bears, I think about what they did to Detroit at home and how they should have beat Detroit on the road.
I think that the Bears are so close to a competitive division opportunity.
That getting the decisions right going forward plays in a huge role in the future success of the Bears.
I would do.
Nothing but talk confident, confidently to my team in the process of the offseason through OTA's how close we are.
We have to take that next step no matter who's here or who isn't here.
And so I think the message going forward isn't you know, how are we going to come out of training camp. No, it's coming out of training camp with the intentions of winning the division. My only message from this point going forward is about winning the division next year, and I think that it can be honestly spoken because of what I saw out of the playoff games and going forward.
We're sponsored by Miller Lite, official beer of the Chicago Bears. Tastes like Miller Time Chicago. Tom There, I'm Jeff Jonnieck, Thanks to Joe Flamb. Thanks for listening, and please subscribe now to the Chicago Bears official app, Apple, Spotify.
YouTube, or wherever you get your podcast. Bear Down, Everybody,