Hello, and welcome to episode number one thirty four of the Chief Steaks and Controllers podcast. Coming at you a little later than usual, but there's a good reason, I promise you, and as soon as we get right into it, you'll understand what that is. My name is Jason Finelli, and I am the video game and competitive gaming insider for Fox PHL The Gambler one or two point five FM fourteen eighty AM iHeartRadio. Wherever you get your podcasts,
you can download and listen to this right now. And this is a special episode. I don't think I've ever done an episode like this before. I have had interviews, I've had interviews that go longer than one segment. I've had guests for the entire show, but I don't think I've ever done an actual episode long interview. It's going to be quite a quest and that it's appropriate that the first time I ever do this is with the folks who
made Wrestle Quest. Megacat Studios is back on Cheese, Steaks and Controllers, and we're going to talk about the game because that launch is finally knocking on the door. James dan zach Manko back with me here on Cheese steaks and controllers talk about wrestle quest gentleman, how's it going, good man? Well, I'm excited to come back where huge fans of cheesecake can control. You can see how he ended up here. I I a cheese steak, cheesecake.
I don't call him what every wanted on the show, Martin murpetin the better find it all? That's correct, Amen to that. So last time we saw each there was Pax East. Zach was doing his very a very good uh professional wrestling uh in that in that boxing ring that you got.
Yeah, um, how did that feel? Getting into the ring. It's as opposed to just watching from before, so honestly great, Like just even when we had so for those I don't know, at PAXI East, we had a real ring on site and we had real um indie pro wrestlers there. Um when the wrestling wasn't going on, you know, we were in
the ring hanging out. We had a photo boot set up and just being in the ring between the ropes up you know on a stand, it does make you just want to like bounce off the road, throw your friends around, you just get giddy being in there. Um. So yeah, it was definitely a blast. And then we did do some you know, some actual pro wrestling. We got a skip going on where my arch nemesis had stole the game and wasn't going to release it, but we managed to defeat
him. So yes, nothing says wrestling like, let's determine the ownership of this ip or this property then with a wrestling match. The only the only other thing that Trump's stat is custody of a child. We've done that, ay about eighteen years ago. So James, you're watching this match, You're watching Zach, you know, do his thing in the ring, and you have to be half excited and half oh my god, I hope he doesn't
hurt himself. We have too much work to do between now all this right, You know, it's funny we take so many risks and never crossed my mind and at no point that I think Man of Zach breaks his neck would happen. Let's keep thinking, go Zach finally living our dream in there. You know, if you cly wrestle fied ourselves. What if I told you, Jason that wrestle Quest was actually the prequel to Zach actually becoming a wrestler, and the game is a second to that that that would be the most
unique indie wrestling story for the last couple of years. I feel like, if this game ends with Muchacho Man, Randy Santo's actually being Zach Manko and it's just like this live shot or he's the one playing with the zoys at the end, opens the door and he's like it is screaming, Oh man, that's a great idea. There's your DLC pitch right there, Zach. We're launching Zach's career. Now were they Were they local wrestlers to the Boston
area? Did you bring them from other parts of the country? How'd you? I noticed one of them at least I've already seen in my playthrough. Uh he's standing. Where was he? Was he at the Macho Man statue? I think? Yeah? Yeah? So they right? Caliro? So are they were they local Boston or friends of yours? Like? How'd you find them? So Cal is a friend of ours? They's are friends of ours? So Cal we met way back through bookings. His dad, David
has been like a career like wrestling community ambassador. He's just one of these bookers that everybody loves. He just treats talent really well. He just is really consistent guy. Love that and Cow's on the come up and we just we met David, we just clicked immediately and he's loved like our kind of approach to like talent forward, transparency and the TAKERI Dy driven deals and he was like, this was great. Not a lot of those all the time
in wrestling. Let's find more ways to work together. And as we got to know Cow, we like loved him. He's like a fanny pack gimmick, which you can imagine as a retro gaming base, like retro company. We have a soft spot for fanny packs. And then Vinnie Vinnie League Glamrock, who was there. So Vinny was the original trademark copyright owner for the name Wrestling Quest, so he had an app he was working on. It was intended to connect all of the different independent wrestling events into one place.
And it's funny like Vinny was working on that app while we were working in the game and both using the name. We just made a put the barn like upside down like reverse Mortgar at our houses, placed a giant bad Vinnie was like, every once in a while work on the zapp of my free time. And after many love letters and emails and phone calls eventually to his employer to get a hold of him. We're able to come to terms on
the wrestle Quest trademark, so we became we became friends. It's funny that he's actually from Northern PA, but Vinny's like a good friend of us now, like I like love. Then he was just talking to him this morning, and we knew we wanted something with Cal and Vinnie to connect as like our two retros themed wrestlers. Like if you look at the Vinnie glam Rock's backstory, he's like electrocuted by Nintendo controller to become a wrestler. Pretty good
stuff. But we just knew they had to be together at some point. So when we had our wish list item granted through sky bound up having the ring live at Pax East, which was a feat in and of its own.
Getting through all the insurance requirements, the paperwork, and getting all the enforcers like comfortable with the idea of Zach wrestling everybody like, um, you know, we basically decided we wanted those folks to be there, and then we wanted to get like top performing indie talent that for a casual wrestling audience packs didn't get excited. And there's some folks that are like JT. Dunn, who's like top three unsigned independent talent. Yeah right now, he's awesome.
You know. Um Zach actually has like a JT. Dunn collection on his hard drive. Really that's true of his matches, though maybe it's Becca. Actually we have different collections for different reasons. I'm just a fan of his Helism's like he's just a master heal. Yeah, he's my favorite. Heel at paxis, Like I was dying every time he was like calling out Yoshi or making like you know, Pokemon, You're never going to catch them
all. Like I was just so into all of his ad hoc like he healss life, Like he was just great, you know, awesome performer. But it's like we're just fans of wrestling, And so I made Wrestling Quest and as we got to go through like the series of booking, it was a lot of fun being able to work with David and some local promotions kind of cherry pick, you know. Also we got to ask them like who, like which of them are wrestling and gaming fans and like that intersection was
key and which is plenty of hands to choose from. Not to mention a little mean Kathleen. I don't want to like go let her go unoticed. She was hilarious. I remember distinctly locking eyes with you, Jason, whenever we were watching watching their first card. But yeah, it was, it was. It was a lot of fun. I'm really glad to pick that
up. That was. I would say top five proudest moments of being at Megacat would be like looking over and seeing the team respond to like the crowd of people, like going like wrest soul quest, so quest like that was. It was pretty wild, man, And it's um it's the unifying energy of wrestling right Like it was just like too much fun for people to ignore all these like laps wrestling fans that had probably not watched wrestling in a long
time. We're just like vacuumed into the entertainment factor and uh, it was just awesome. It was so much fun to be part of it. I wish every event we did was like that. I was just saying to the team, I don't want to go to Pack's West this year because there's no wrestling ring. What's the point, all right? Well, I mean you could always resurrect backstage assault and just starts through and like like just put a circle down and do hardcore in the parking lot. Maybe it's like a like
a fiery totally. I'm sure they would. If you want to talk insurance requirements, Oh dear, so one thing real quick, I do want to I think a special mention. The one wrestler who sticks out in my head besides Zach of course, was the Was he the Angel of Love? Was he cupid? Or I still think about that Kim Back and I'm like, man, I wish I could see that a little more prevently. Who talk to me about that guy? He's excellent. Look, get up the name
of that tag team right now? So they're through the heart, that's right, Yeah, they're so good. Actually have an autographed date by ten from the event somewhere. Yeah that that that was really cool? Did The entrance was great? Right? It was just so good man excellent. So coming out of packs East, I have to say two things. The crowd, like you said, was electric, And there was always a crowd at your booth, whether it was in line for the photos or when you were doing
the wrestling matches. They were people watching through the glass and the catwalk. You were in prime position there. I don't know if you intended that, but that was prime spots where people could still watch up above. It seemed like excitement was high, and overall opinion of people I spoke to on the
floor and articles that I read after the fact was positive. Is that what you took away too or were there some were there some things that maybe were said to you or whatever that you you thought, Okay, this is something we need to work on or what we need to focus on going forward. We did get some feedback that was constructive, but it's good. Most of it was like high fives and like heartwarming wrestling stories and mail for Zack's wrestling
career. All right. It was honestly, it was a that'll be the first and maybe only ever trade show we go to where we just have fans in line, just super hype, just telling us how excited they are about
the game. Because normally when we're at a trade show, one of the main reasons we're there is to collect live, like dynamic feedback from like expert players and looking ways to improve the game and see what we can learn from these these like pre launched showings and because the rest request had been through so many like fi fistfuls of focused groups and play sessions and events, it was like it was like finally ready for its main event, right Like it didn't
just show up for Paxiast that year. We already brought it to two other Pax East and you know we worked on it for a while. So this is this is where you went all out. This was no doubt, all out, for no doubt, all out trademark that the owners I don't own all that the people who want all out a lot. I'm just saying the two words leave you alone, Tony um. So my now have a done
that. I understand you are going to Comic Con this week, which is part of the reason why we have we have met where we're meeting today, they will be at San Diego Comic Con. If you're listening to this and you will be to check them out. I am the sky Bound booth. I imagine you have demos there is that what will be? Do they have a wrestling ring for you this time? But I can't spoil what we have this time not a wrestling ring, but it's pretty dope. I think.
I think if you're a wrestling fan. There's gonna be a whole lot of a whole lot of stuff to do them all right. Making a note, since I won't be at Comic Con, ask after we are done talking today, after I stop recording. Um, that's awesome cool. Um so yeah, so Thobe at San Diego Comic Con this week, you sold him at Paxy's launch is coming up soon. August the ninth, We are knocking on the door. How do you feel going into the final month? You're in
the final month now before launch, five years in the making. Here we are. What are both of you? What are your first thoughts when you think, man, we are we are at the finish line? Well, August eighth, actually wait, sorry, yeah, yeah, okay, gave you a day. I would say I'm mostly worried about Zach's wrestling career these days. The game. The game's ready, it's tests, it's localized,
it's balanced. We've been oiling and doing push ups and just smack talking each other and just going hard for enough cycles now that we feel like the fans are ready to to get some wrestling. Question. So it's I can't wait for Andy to push the button. Since Andy released still the games, but um, yeah, doubt. Yeah. Everyone everyone's good at something, you know, Shawn Michael's and that gift dude. Yeah, And it's like for years he just stretching the fingers out, like make sure it's ready, you
know, lining up over the button, tapping race keys. But it's like Mario teaches typing, but there's just one key, you know, the wrestle Quest launch keyboard. And he's been pre training this the whole time. Um comes into the office. He slap at himself with the cheeks. Got this, no doubt. You know what I'm most excited about for rest Requests and
this I guess it's also for Zach, but for anyone listening. We just packed rest Requests with Easter eggs and fan moments like so Daisy, and I just cannot wait for people to find them and share them, because the few that have little bits here and there would league or we share them with you
know, first party partners or promotional partners. Like the reaction has been so incredibly positive, Like it's it's just very obvious that it's crafted with care by wrestling fans and RPG fans, and I just can't wait for people to share some of these insane things we packed in UM for no good reason other than like love for it, like you've our commercial reason, and uh, I
just can't wait. I can't wait for like you know, Twitter to blow up with people finding some of these really wild things that we brought to life in the game. Zach, you want to do want to comment on that? UM? Just as far as emotions leading up to launch UM, You're right, it has been this multi year long development, so it is kind of like very exciting, very sweaty time. I'm sure once it's actually launched, it'll be like you know, like Bitter Sweet's like finishing like a movie
or a TV show or something. You're like wow, like you know, it's almost like how what But I know that Wrestle Quest, we've definitely wrestle Fight ourselves and I can't imagine the next project or excited to see the next project and taking that energy like into it, taking the mindset of like Wrestlification and you know, stronger and more dramatic, more story, you know, more impact, more wild moments, that type of thing, and applying that
to you know, a game that has nothing to do with wrestling, and see what happens Okay, so you show that that actually answered a question I had later on. If you're if you would concept in your next game, if you have a choice, would it be trying to adapt something else to an RPG or try to adapt wrestling to something else? So I think you just answered my question. Oh man, Yeah, honestly like both. Like I love RPGs, you know, definitely favorite genre. I don't have as
much time to play them now as it did throwing up and whatnot. But I mean, obviously that's one of the goals of wrestle Quest, was taking that beloved JRPG formula and then updating the parts that have an aged so well, exploring something that's completely new, you know, wrestle Quest is it's all it's wrestling world, so you're not in another yet another like kind of fantasy
world. You know, it's this entirely new set up and everything. But I would love to do another RPG, and just as we wrestle fight RPGs, you know, maybe there's something else you can adapt to that formula. But I think the lens that we did it through with wrestle Quests, you can take sort of the spirit behind it, if not the actual you know, boots to the ground tactics, right, James with au there, I
wish every game we did was wrestling base wrestling inspired. I would say that there is a couple of different times throughout this process, Zack and I talked about just rebranding like Wressell Cats Studios and like we've opted talked about the wrestle vacation and how like I mean really, um, wrestling can be used across any mechanic, any genre, and there's nothing preventing us from even aside from what we hope is Russel quest too, like everything can benefit from a little
bit of wrestling powder. Agree with that at all? I thought, I wonder if wrestle powder, um, almost's a powder and not you know shot, We're okay, uh. I want to add to that, Jason. I was pretty bummed out to see that the domain name wrestlvania was taken because I was like, that was going to be good one. But well that and you might be able to console a fellow Indy. I think you're still in the studio. H the guacamelea team because they basically did that with Luja
Libre. They made an eventuvania. Um, but yeah, Wrestlvania. Oh God, I like that. I like that a lot. Um, I was actually I mean, I had been following the game, so I knew what you were coming into, what you were you were trying to do here, But I was surprised with how many people came away impressed that, like the whole I'm not a wrestling fan, I'm an RPG fan and this still works for me. Right, that's sort of opinion um prevalent throughout packs East.
I know I've read it again after this most recent preview run. What last week I think in Bargo was, if I remember correctly, Um, did you expect that? Like, were you hoping for that sort of reaction where you get the non wrestling fans to play the RPG? You figured you had the wrestling fans to try out the RPG format. I feel like, if I have to, it would be easier to convince a wrestling fan to try this then it would be to convince an RPG fan to try this.
Does that make sense? Um? Do you think you have done that so far before we've gotten you know, since we first started the game. Um, I don't know. I don't want to speak for Zach. He's a whole lot to say on this topic. But and he'll beat you up. He's a wrestler now, dude. Trust me. He lets everybody know. I just break their chairs before they get to work. A d it's a drive any minutes to fill its gas tank these days because you keep cause of
trouble with every gas station attendant. He just greets people with an Okada elbow. Jimmy Johns will deliver to the office. You know, everyone's very hunger here. But that the you know, the the origin of Wrestle Requests design was how do we take like a genre we have so much reverence for that we like, were raised by, that we love and we know as a player what goes into progression and systems and balancing and like, just to make a good RPG or a great RPG it's the goal. It's like, it's
massive undertaking. And you know, we decided from a product standpoint that if we were going to double or triple down on Wrestle quest as we did, that, we had to make it accessible to someone who doesn't like wrestling. So we've been focusing on since day zero, how do we make it a great RPG through wrestling lens and the wrestling characters come to life and we can actually introduce people to wrestling. And I say, like top five produs moment
for Make a Cat. One of them was the ring And one of them that I think shared with a lot of the team members is we had a like a member of the press at the first pack. Heats have played it that like discovered wrestling through wrestle Quest and he wrote he wrote this as awesome like fanmail later it was like months later and he's like, I took your advice and I started with the WrestleManias and he's like, can I just subcribe
to subscribe to Peacock. He's like, now I'm like consuming every Sunday a few hours of it for fun. And he's like, I just love this so much. He's like, you brought all the fun that I find in like anime through this larger than life instead of real characters. And he's like, I just can't deal with that. Plus a nostalgia. He's like, I feel like I missed out on twenty years of wrestling and you like saved me from losing twenty more, like thank you so much. It was just
this really great email. I remember showing the team, I'm like, well, I guess we won voice. You know, like, even if we don't ship the game, what else can we say? We changed someone's lives, We change the lives around here? What do you do with your game? You know? And the team was like, we're shipping the game though,
you guess of course, yeah, no doubt. I'm like, I'm like, as you guys, come down, We're just here to evangelize wrestling fans, you know, Like it's but it's it's like a you can't make that stuff up. It's like some of my favorite memories of being at Megacat have been these like profoundly cool fan moments for people today they proposed or their
wives playing whatever games are they. You know, all all those things are what you really remember way later after the medic critic, after the sales, and and it's like the the idea that we introduce people to something we love so dearly, like that is just amazing. So exactly. I don't mean it to keep down of that. I know I know how much you care
about all these things. Please like share your sentiment totally. I mean, from from the ground up, the game is always meant to appeal to both audiences, wrestling fans j RPG fans, And it's weird because you know, we were very shocked that rest of the pro wrestling hasn't been explored through an RPG, you know, prior to this um just because there is so much shared blood there between the larger life characters, the storytelling, you know,
these betrayals, dramatic reveals, even a boss fight. A boss fight and RPG. I mean that's like a pay per view for wrestling, yep, so there's there's you know, obviously all of those correlations are explored. Sou I was also pleased to see people come up and like say like, well I love RPG's but never never watch wrestling, and then play the demo at the booth and the come away like, but this is awesome. I can't
wait. You know, maybe I should check out wrestling now. And um So, anytime someone's playing, I always preface like RBG fan, wrestling fan, both neither, and no matter what they seem, to come away like just pump the game. So happy to hear that. Yeah, now in in your wrestlification of the JRPG, I do want to talk about that panel
too. At Paxy's was excellent. Um, did you find that there was a part of pro wrestling, like a certain section whatever it may be, that didn't fit as well into the RPG formula as you kind of hoped it would. Like you have obviously wrestlers, you have moves, you have the pin mechanic, which I also want to talk about. That's great, um, Managers as a passive fourth party member, was there any facet of pro wrestling that you were like, well, we can incorporate it this way,
but it may not be to its full potential? Does that make sense? Was so how I'm getting at there? Um? I think there's some stuff that we probably could have taken like to the next level, and that had we had we had to do over a wrestle quest too, that will definitely you know address like. Um, obviously, wrestling is very physical, and I do think that the combat and wrestle Quest reflects that well while maintaining a
turn based framework. Um, but I think there's there's additional things we could do to make it, you know, pop off even more in the next go round. James, You know, we we have over ten thousand hand drawn sprites and wrestle quests just a crazy amount of art and you know, part of like the spectacle and fun and the just insane handcrafted moment. I wish we had more in budget and timeline for that. I could probably have worked on rest the Quest forever. So I take it with a grain of
salt, but I'd like, I love the setup. I love like, you know, cutting, cutting promos and you know, having these big moments, and I wish we had enough budget improven market for what everyone said was not going to land to be able to capture things like you know, crazy camera finishing moments and like these, like the dramatic you know scenes and dramatic moments within a match of a boss battle and actually really zooming in and having
just insanely cool additional animations, which we already did a lot for that. But it's true, it's like, I feel like that's just um as a wrestling fans, and I could have used even more of like just pour that sauce until it was over the cup. You know. Yep, that's fair. No, that's completely fair. And again, with since your hand rolling these animations, that the game's already taken five years, you don't want it to take five more for something with eighty year old James the egan all of
a sudden. So let's get into that panel that you had at Packs East to rectification. The JRP was a restification of JRPG, jfication of pro wrestling the name okay, restification of job. I thought it was a fascinating talk that really got into like your philosophy behind this game. I loved the mentions of Super Mario RPG, which, by the way, our time has come.
That game is finally back after twenty seven years. So I remember seeing that trailer and being like the Wrestle Quest, guys are gonna love this. Like I cried. I don't know about you, but I cried. But anyway, um, I cry every day. My eyes are welling again. Don't bring it up during the interview, Jason. You know I feel about Gino Mallow every time you do it. It's so good. Uh. And it looked great. Okay, Yeah, I could do an entire interview on
that, and you didn't. You guys didn't make that. We're talking about the game that you made. Um, So for those who weren't at the panel, or you're doing it again at San Diego, right, bigger and
better bigger and better, more wrestlers this time too. So for oh oh so for some poor sap who was at back ceased and wasn't at San Diego Comicon me, or won't be at San Diego Comicon, talk to me about what you might touch on here that you've added since the last time, or maybe expanded upon certain topics that were addressed in that padel that you've had some time to like flesh out this time. Well, zact before you take over, I wanted to add that Sergeant Slaughter, Jake the Snake, Jeff Jarrett
are going to be giving the panel with us. Oh that's awesome Comicon. Yeah, and uh, you know Serge has been making his act with out of push ups constantly. Good, yeah, lots of that. Yeah.
And then just in general, um, you know, we're able to go a little bit further behind the curtain for like how these folks were involved more than just licenses, Like we've been really specific and that like some of the talent um, you know, we've actually been able to apply their creative and some of their insights on what is like actually being on the road or what
it's like living through this independent depressional circuit. Basis, and they definitely asked some stories to tell, so those folks, those folks are part of the
panel this time. And then the head wrestle father himself, Zack, please, you know, talk us to talk a little bit about the Rustification panel because we just got done redoing it, like the three taking all the different I want to say, like fan service moments or questions and requests people have had, and making sure that that's front and center to give them all the
other raditional wish lists information they wanted to see. That's fair. Yeah, I think as far as you know what's been expanded on or what's been added since Pass East besides what James mentioned, really the focus on now on the section about JRPG like tropes or staples and how we wrestle fied them. Like we talked a little bit about the combat, but really the idea of restification is making it, you know, adding wrestling, so making it bigger,
you know, sweatier, more spectacle. So something even as simple as opening a locked door in a RPG, it's this mundane mechanic you find everywhere, So how do you wrestlefy that? How do you turn that into something that's a delight for the player, and we did in Wrestle Quest is instead of locked doors, you find tables blocking your path, and if you know anything
about wrestling, you know that table's getting smashed. So instead of finding a key, you find this token that summons an NPC wrestler that you pick up and slammed at the tables. So now when you open a door, it's this. You know, it's this funny, awesome animation if your guy pile driving it, and it's different for whatever lead character you have to So I mean, even that little bit mixes it up and adds that flair. But again it's about taking these like kind of stay at elements and amping them up
wrestlefying them. I love that table spot. By the way, the first time I did it in the in the Pink Shop. It's early in the game, so anybody who's who's gonna play it, that's not a big spoiler. But oh man, as soon as I did that for the first time, but I realized what was actually happening, I'm like wow. And I played that in the demo at PAX season I did it again in the preview build, and I don't know if I just forgot where I put it out of my mind, but to see it again, I was like, oh,
yeah, this is still awesome even the second time. So I loved I love that mechanic there. I also like that you have two stories going on. I didn't remember that. So Randy Santos Mucaco Man voiced by Patrick Kikey, is the main guy. He's he's the guy that you've had. He's front and center in the posters and everything else. But there's a whole other side story going on here, which I feel like is more rooted in wrestling history. I'm getting I'm sure this is intentional. I'm getting major Heart
Family vibes from this other story. There's a dungeon in the basement, it's in the north, There's a whole all these different sort of things that are given me this edge. So is this like, is the is the Muchaco Man's story like the RPG story, and then the other story like the wrestling history story. I imagine they're going to blend at some point, But how how is that? How was like writing two different stories to come together? Were did you intend to do that or did you try to put a little
bit of history into both? A might making sense here, I feel like I'm not making any sense here. I don't know. Just the Logan story seems like it's more steeped in wrestling history for the before Jack action. I'm saying, Becazach that can go deep on this, But I would argue that there's many great legacy wrestling families, like sure, the Roads and the Funks, and it's like, you know, Bring definitely intended to like like the
Logan families intended to be this homegrown wrestling dynasty. And also when we talked about laying out the world map, but the different styles of wrestling and the regions of wrestling, and you know, we had to have something with the great history of Canadian wrestler could just so many of them, right, And all that said, we did sign bred Hart, then we had to terminate
the agreement, so that sucks. Thanks Jason, But oh, I don't know, I'm just messing around, but it's it's yeah, I mean, it was like our part of our original product was was to have like something representing all these pillars, and then when we signed Brett, we went really deep on Brink. And then whenever Brett was terminated with wwwe purchasing out everything. We had to make some really hard changes, and we decided we loved like the Locan family too much, so we just we just made sure that
there was enough about it that was not just heart based. And and there's so much to that too. There's probably fifty wrestling the families we found that are multigenerational, that are just these rich, kind of bleeding grounds of just crazy wrestling talent that the industry wouldn't be the same without them. And there's just an epic number of Canadian wrestlers, like just crazy good talent that comes out of Canada. And oh yeah, I mean it's like it's probably ten
pages of content on Wikipedia for Canadian wrestlers. Like if you know Chris Jericho, it's a great one, right. It's like, you know, there's actually a number of wrestling schools and independent wrestling feds through Canada, which is not a great slog for traveling. He actually gets a folks from my Jim the wrestle in Nova Scotia and but you know, locally here and pitching Jim.
But it's it's definitely am like I would say like celebrated sports on hockey, you know, but it's a right, it's definitely like a celebrated Canadian event. But Zach, I know you know the logans personally. I know you actually went to school with Brink, so yeah, yeah, totally got
stretched in the same gyms. Um. So, as far as the difference between we chatch Himan and Brink Logan, we chatch hi Man is this storied eide innocent like love wrestling his whole life, and his thing is that he exists in constant cafe like for him, wrestling is all real, all the time, um. Whereas Brink is very much in the know, like he's a mid card jobber in his father's promotion and he does it even though he's like very technically capable. He's actually a very you know, proficient wrestler.
He's willing to take on that role to help the family business out, like he understands like Okay, these guys are you know hot right now, Like sure, I'll help put them over. But it grates on him where he wants to be a champion because he knows he is the better wrestler, whereas Muchacha man um he wants to be a hero, like he sees these faces on screen, he's like I want to be like that. I want to
be this super good guy. So for him, his journey is more about how do I become this this hero his face without compromising that starry idealism, like without you know, if it gets into the ins and outs of the industry. How does he do that without compromising without losing his soul? Really is kind of like the his narrative, whereas Brinks is more about, well, how do I become a champion on my own terms? How do I get the get the belt without you know, kind of shoving my family to
the side, letting the family business down. How do I spread my wings, you know, without kicking dirt my family's face type of thing. So they're sort of like opposite sides of the same coin Muchacha Man is very like rash and bold and raisin, and that speaks to like his move set, whereas Brank you know, is opposite colors, cool colors, calm, cool, collected. He's professional um in his style is less grandiose and more technical,
wrestling based and everything. So and that that plays into the game mechanics as well, which Joaman is more more like hard hitting, spread attack, damage type things, whereas Brinks is more disabling attacks and I'll put you in a submission. Hold add a deebuff that type of thing. Love. I love that dichotomy too. There's two different, two different play styles. But you also in the in the sections with Brink Logan, you have his brother who is more of the hard hitter, so you still have that. And
then the sister shows up after a while. Um, she's interesting. She she what what sort of uh rpg archetype? I guess were you thinking of with her? Is she just more like a like a supporting for the other two. She's got a couple of pretty good moves on her road. I love the name saddle Sore. I love that it's star. Yeah. So what were you thinking when you when you were developing the three family members next to each other, trying to create a bit of a balance. So Selene,
we'll start with her. Um, she brings little sister and she's not as involved with the family promotion. She's more of like an indie darling where she, you know, runs the circuit. She goes from promotion promotion promotion, and she has this whole cowgirl gimmick which does fit some of the Canadian styles as well stampede, that's right. And as far as like what RPG class she would fall into, there is a large playable cast and resequist.
It's twelve. Overall, she's what I would consider more of like a dualist almost, where she has high agility and then a kind of high risk, high reward maneuvers where a lot of her move set is based around counters. So you know, you can activate a counter like that's your turn, and then you basically entice the enemy to attack you. And you can do that with different equipment and manager abilities and what not to draw fire to one specific
character. And she has pound set up, you know, where someone rushes at her, she'll interrupt their move and then whip them into the ropes and follow up with the back elbow or things like that. Um, the trade off is that she's kind of squishy. She is like low HP, low defense, So it's it's again it's all about that kind of like high risk,
high reward. And then how you play into that, you know, do you double down and equip all those mechanics and all that equipment and those managers to make those opportunities happen, or do you you know, take a more measured approach and instead, you know, put heavy armor or put a manager that can buffer defenses. That so if those you know, those setups fail, she won't be as as as damaged. Yeah yeah, yeah, no, go for it. I was gonna say, just to I know,
we talked about it a little bit. For those listening who haven't played the game yet, I haven't seen a game yet. Managers are passive members of your party who you can equip, essentially to give a buff to the entire team. Give like like a park that runs, a passive park that runs throughout the entire match. The first one you run into is the Alligator. His name alludes to him like slimy, slimy, I mean, uh so, and then you'll find more throughout the adventure that you can add to
your party. Equip one at the time, right, it's one one propt one from battle, uh and then they provide past so go ahead. Sorry yeah yeah no. The manager is great. Um. Quick side note, some of the legends you can actually unlock as uh as managers love that. Yeah, I love that. That's cool, um cool, Yeah, that's that's awesome. So I want to get back into real quick. Some of
the mechanics in the game. I know we talked about the pin first off, but before we get into that, you mentioned equipping the abilities and things like that. I love the gimmick system. I think that's a really cool way to implement. Like if a wrestler is a powerhouse, you can you can know there are obvious, you know, perks and downsides to that,
and they are incorporated here. A technician is one and and so talk to me about developing that system and figuring out a way to get these different wrestling market types into an RPG. But not like as a class system. It's a little more to it than that. That's definitely where it started out, the idea of JRPG classes. You know, you have your your wizard or your fighter, your thief, et cetera. And that's reflected in the cast
a little bit like each one lends themselves to that to an extent. But again, like that system is you know, it's been it's been done, everyone knows it, it's recognizable. How do we wrestlefy it? So wrestling you have again these these sort of archetypes where the powerhouse, big strong guys, the high flyer. You know, these lucolibre, you know, deathstifying, moves off the top rope and whatnotum. So we tied that into the
other combat mechanics for wrestle quests, most notably the hype meter. The hype meter is peers in every battle and it's an indication of the audience's engagement with the fight. So if you come in and you're just tapping the attack button all the time on autopilot, like you know, like you used to do an RPGs UM, the audience is going to get bored and that meter drains
out and then your enemies get stronger. But if you approach combat with you know, a little bit of strategy, you can have that meter sway in your favor instead. When you do, you get more damage, better experience points, better loot after the battle. So it's all ties back into controlling that. And the hype types are how you do that, you know,
and they determine how you generate height. So the powerhouse type will generate whenever you attacks someone or whenever he you know, chaos someone, the technician whenever he nails a button prompt or inflicts a status effect. So it's the idea
beyond restification is a player agency. Too many times in RPGs, you have a limited sort of way to express your move set, and there's a little crossover between the characters, and in some cases it might even seem like, well, all my characters interchangeable at a certain point, like they're they're more or less they can all do the same damage. There's no really, there's
no point to have anyone in my party restile guests. We really try to give the player the freedom to choose their party and then choose their strategy in combat. So you can just go for straight damage and hope Tom the hype meter that way, or you know, you can choose your manager, choose your equipment, choose your character. Is based on inflicting debuffs, and that's a whole new strategy, and that's a whole new way to get that hype
meter pumped up again. It's all about giving players agency in a genre where they typically don't have as much, right, Yeah, which makes a lot of sense. Like I said, it feels more pro wrestling than it does basic JRPT classes. And I find myself going into party building, like when I'm crafting it to go to the next section of the game based on that, Like, if this guy's going to be the technician, I need to make sure he's you know, built like a technician or a powerhouse and stuff
like that. I really do enjoy that. So this pin mechanic, right, I have. My only criticism of this game so far is that I want the pin mechanic to be a solid one two three, like it has been my entire life watching wrestling. But it doesn't work like that. Sometimes you can do a little one two and then three, or if you're lucky
enough, you can get it a quick three count stuff like that. Um, have you heard as other people said this to you about how it's not the normal like normal like cadence, normal cadence, and whether or not it took them some time to get used to that. I think more so than the idea of like the cadence of the one two three, we spent a lot of time thinking, even back to the first Packs East where we kind of like debuted wrestle Quest in twenty twenty two to now in twenty twenty three.
Even since then, like you know, it's come leaps and bounds, but tweaking the difficulty has been the major standing point there because you know, as we play tests, we become experts and we're able to nail it, and then we show it live and people are like, wow, this is hard, and you know, we realized that fifty percent of people struggle with it, and then make it easier and you know, add some other things
to make it feel nicer. So I think more so than matching that cadence, it's been a it's a way of making it have good game feel first.
That's been our priority. Yeah, I would I would say there were a couple of times where, even after I got the flow of it, where I would miss um mostly on three I noticed a two count not on purpose, I promise, and like I was like, oh wow, I missed that, and it caught me by surprise, so I was a little more engaged and ready for the next time the pin being able to pin in general, how did you decide what enemies to pin and which enemies to not
Because some enemies I can just knock out, or some I can do this pin mechanic. And are there benefits to pinning as opposed to knocking out? Because I think I also noticed if I failed enough times, I just beat them. So is there an added besides maybe like extra bonus at the end to nailing that pin timing or did you think did you ever float the idea of the pin is the only way you can beat them? Yeah, So
it comes back to the idea about balance for one. And then also, I don't know if you'd call it quality of life or what, but if we made every enemy pinnable, which was originally what we intended, we realized battles would be way too long, sure, because it does add an extra step where like, okay, now the enemy's down, Now I'm going to
go in and pin them. So we made it suggest enemies that are more like wrestler wrestlers or wrestling based you would have to pin and normal sort of like grunt type enemies you can defeat normally just by reducing their HP to zero. So that was the first kind of step was like all right, like, you know, how long do we want this game to be? Because if battles are too long you need to pin every character all the time,
it's going to drag out. So we tried to have a mix, especially early on when you're just learning and things like that mix of you know, make it one to two rather than all three are mandatory pins. The other other aspect of that, too, is that we also wanted to have more ways than just pinning to defeat the wrestlers. So many abilities are based around finishing moves instead, where if you can get your enemy fatigued we call it is either when they're at low HP like sub twenty percent, or if it's
just the thing where you can add it as a status effect. There's a lot of moves will fatigue your enemy. You know. They're like moves that aim towards the gut or things like that. When they're in that fatigue state, you can do a finishing move on them which has a chance to automatically koe them. So it gets back to again the idea of wrestling. Sometimes it's not always like a pin how you do it. Sometimes you know, it's just you knock them out cold. So there's that, and that's a
whole other combat strategy to approach those enemies that need pinned. Yeah, okay, yeah, I noticed like after a while the pinning mechanic did become a little more natural. I don't want you to think I'm still stuck in the cadence, but I also completely agree with you that if every enemy could be
pinned, the game would be bloated. So I'm glad whoever decided that, whatever whatever team decided to pull back back on that have to show that restraint, which I'm sure it was hard to do because it's a really cool thing. That was who Arson shout Darson, um shout out there because that was a that was the right call. Good. Yeah, I appreciate that. Um So, last mechanical thing or last thing I want to get into kay mechanically, But and then I have two more two more questions, one mechanically
and one story mechanically. Tag teams triple teams. Um, very cool way to incorporate, uh, the tag team feel by just setting up for a tag team and then as long as they're compatible being able to execute that team move. What does that What does it take to become compatible in order to unlock those moves? Because I noticed in the beginning I didn't have had tea
people on my team, but there wasn't the tag team move there. Do they have to level up so many times together in order to create that that tag team edge or do they have to be a certain level and then just have those people in the party does that makes that Yeah, it's the latter. You have to be at a certain level before they're available, and then it depends on when those party members are together, because they will some will
come and go, others will be available at only at certain parts. Eventually you know you have all of them at your disposal. But it, yeah, it depends basically on individual power level and then story progress and then you're making parties of three at once you have more than three, do you have to like eventually select Yeah, So that's actually one of the one of the things we actually don't talk about too much in panels or at the booth and
whatnot. There are several dungeons that have you splitting your party into multiple sub teams. Interesting, so you know, like early on, I would say, like you know, in the first quarter of the game, and there's
one where you have two parties of two. But eventually you get to the point where you have three parties of three and there's different things where you know, it's separate tracks in the same dungeon where you have to solve tandem puzzles and things like that, And once you get to that point, you can
also assign a manager to each one of those parties. Obviously we had as like save stuff like that for the late game once you're used to all the mechanics, but um, you do encounter those, you know, a handful of times route. Just for another sort of unique take on dungeons and RPGs,
are you switching at will? Or is there like you do an event and then you switch the now you're switching at will because most of the time, most of the time it requires like you know, you'll have Team A you know, up on a catwalks or something, but there's something blocking their way and teamb down in the ground can deactivate that and vice versa. I got it. Okay, well that's cool. That's cool. Complex dungeons in my wrestle quest, yes please, um yeah, that's exciting cool all right.
Uh So, my one question about story is I'm gonna go I'm gonna talk about Randy Santos for a second because in my written preview, which you can read at mmorpg dot com for those listening, went up last Thursday the twelfth, I think it was, um, you mentioned he's always ink fabe and there's dialogue between him and other characters, which someone mentions the writers and he's like, writers, what are you talking about? And things like that.
I think the idea and if you don't want to talk about this, I understand of exploring that moment in every wrestling's fans life where they realize what's actually happening, right, Like that moment of realization that well it's not it's not real, or it's it's scripted or whatever. I don't think using were fake. I'm sure you guys don't either. Um, is that something you plan to explore or is is that not something you wanted to do in this
first girl round? I love that idea. I love if that's something you're gonna do, that's that's cool as shit. Um, I got to beat myself. Oh but I just I wanted to. I wanted to make sure I asked about that because it's something that definitely stuck out to me. Definitely. Yeah. I mean, not not to give too much away, but again, that's Randy's you know, entire character. You know, is is
this idea of Kfabe? You know it's for him, it's so real and that and this this child I would like innocence he has with it's not even so much highlike innocence it's more just like this purity he has with the sport and the idea of being a hero. And obviously as he gets deeper in the industry and he's going on this journey, that that idea, that innocence, that purity gets challenged again and again. So eventually it comes down to the point of him, yeah, sort of having that moment and then it's
like, well, where do you go from there? What do you do with that? So, again don't want to get too much away, but I think you'll be pleased when you have a chance to play the entire game. Awesome, that's exciting. So San Diego Comic Con this week, and then we're a couple of weeks out from launch. August eighth. I keep wanting to say ninth. It's not the ninth, it's the eighth. August eighth is when you can play wrestle Quest on everything even Oh, another thing
I wanted to ask you about. You guys are coming to Netflix. You will be mobile via Netflix. You will be exclusive to the Netflix app. So you load up the Netflix Apple on your phone, you find wrestle Quest, you download it to your iPad, your iPhone ORR and and you can play Wrestle Quest on the go. Um, talk to me a little bit about how that came to be. I know that's relatively new. Last couple of months. That was I think it was announced. What may I want
to say May or June that actually happened. What about Netflix as a mobile carrier or mobile carrier, a mobile host for your game stuck out to you not only you know, as a publisher, but also as like an alternative
to self publishing, if that makes sense. You know, they had a kind of a call out throughout the industry looking for like narrative driven, like story driven game projects, and somebody who was working on press for Wrestle Quests on the behalf of sky betten was just working with them in like a collaborative way of saying, hey, like there's this game we think he's check out. It's called Wrestle Quests. Here's here's the hook, and here's the art.
And they just embraced it right away and they were just really excited about adding it into the fold. So we're you know, for us, it's um, it's a way to get wrestle Requests and more hands, more people. You know, they brought more languages, more regions. Um, you know, I can't wait to see how like that platform develops. In general. I think I think there's a lot of new momentum and like the subscription like World on the Future, Like I think I mentioned a lot of games
coming that way. Um, we didn't see it as something that takes away anything either from the wrestling fans. I have to imagine a lot of folks who are playing on mobile aren't aren't playing on Switch and vice versa. So you know, it was kind of like serendipitous. I guess, you know, some folks who were just wrestling quests fans brought it up and they kind of sought it out. Yeah, now will that be touchscreen play control with
play both deadly touch screenplay? I'm not actually sure. I don't think there's controller um functionality for the mobile port. We're kind of like watching them build the Netflix platform. So we're like driving the car while the back the cars being assembled. Right. Interesting, It's like it's like they're like I just just shard that this morning with Zac as an analogy for how we operate Megact
driving with the car still no doubt. But but it's funny because like the you know, the Neflix Games team was like five people and now it's like fifty people or something. So they're just actively adding in all these layers and layers of of kind of like feedback of like how fans are responding and how to make bigger, better games and where they goes or we're excited to be part of it at this phase because they just stacked up a ton of talent
and do all sorts of cool stuff. So it's it's been interesting to watch though, because even since we started wrestle requests for the Netflix platform to now that platform, that team has developed a great deal. Yeah, have they been hands on in your or they just kind of let Yeah, they're super hands on. Yeah, they have like a they have like a high high expectation for a mobile expertise, which we don't have, like we're not a
mobile games company, right, So so that's been awesome. Um, they definitely have like a north Star quality Standard two which made it so pretty good. Awesome. Well, gentlemen, I really appreciate your time. I know you're getting ready to go out to San Diego, so the fact that you're able to sit down with me talk about your great game very much appreciated August eighth, Wrestle quest on Everything. If you haven't pre ordered, or you're
not ahead of the game yet, get on it. Because if you're a wrestling fan, an RPG and fan both or neither, I do think there is something for you here. And Zac Manko and James Degan, I can talk to you guys forever, but I know our time is coming up soon. Wanted to make sure I said a proper farewell and thank you for coming on, very excited to play your game, and good luck with everything. I guess that's all I think I can say. Thanks Jason, thanks for
having us one wrestling fan to another. Yeah. Always a pleasure, always a pleasure. Thanks guys, And with that that is the end of episode number one thirty four of The Chief Stakes The Controllers podcast presented by Fox PHL The Gambler one or two point five FM fourteen eight am. iHeart Radio. And as I say every week, if you're listening to these words, you've reached the end of the episode. I very much appreciate that you have done
so. It always means a lot to me that everyone listens to this show. When I get to talk to really cool people, or if you just listen to my voice for a now, and with that, I wish you a fantastic weekend and even better week right behind it, and I will be back again next week with Moore on che Steaks and Contract. Goodbye,