¶ Intro / Opening
Chapter two.
I'm Erik Cargill.
And I'm Rachel Elnar. And this is Cheers and Tiers.
Design leadership tales retold.
Today's guest is a San Francisco based artist and designer known for bold unexpected projects that spark human connection and social change. From launching the 1,000 journals project, which sent blank journals around the world to calling out distracted drivers with twit spotting. His work has been exhibited at SFMOMA, the Skirball, and the Torrance Art Museum. A former creative leader at Facebook and Pinterest, he now heads the creative team at Airtable and serves on the Seeka Council for SF MoMA. When he's not making art, he's shaping design communities having led both AIJSF and its national board.
Let's welcome Brian Singer.
Hey. Okay, Brian. Happy to be here.
It's good to see you.
Oh, it's so great to see you. Eric and I started this podcast to try to share everyone's stories, see what everyone is up to since the pandemic or even prior. And so we really appreciate you being here.
Oh, no. This is fun. I I you mentioned reminiscing about the good old days, I'm like, yes. Let's let's do that.
Let's do it.
Let's just jump right in to reminiscing, shall we? So when was your first AIGA leadership retreat?
That is a good I actually believe that there was a relationship retreat in San Francisco, but I think I had either just joined the board or I I like I might have just joined the board, but I couldn't really be there for it. So I didn't I don't really count that as like my first.
Okay.
I think I might have known it was happening, but I don't think I attended. I think the first might have been Oklahoma?
Oh, Omaha, Two Thousand And Eight. Omaha. That was your first?
Was that, was it? Remember you They do all sort of blend together. Like, at some point, I don't you have to give me details for me to remember which one's which. But maybe it was Omaha. Yeah.
Okay. So this is what I remember about Omaha is that Jill Finley and I were hanging out in the front of the Embassy Suites, having a smoke, and you just walked up. And we're like, hey, who are you? And you're just talking about your thousand journals project. And, yeah, that was the first time I had met you. I didn't know that was your first leadership retreat.
I do remember standing out in front of that hotel. Yes. I also remember that it was a giant atrium, and I remember that there was like some issue with us making noise in the hotel.
Oh, yes.
So the the the the groups had to move from room to room to stay ahead of the the the poor security people.
¶ Reminiscing About AIGA Leadership Retreats
I do now remember that. I I was telling Eric we had to write the room number names on our alarms just to communicate where we were moving next. I do now remember that we were trying to get away from security. That's pretty funny.
Now remind me, Rachel, was it was it Omaha where you drank the bar out of all their liquor and they were closed the next day because there was nothing left?
That is true. That is true.
That I don't remember, but maybe that's why I don't remember.
You've been in AIGA for a long time, but I was wondering if you can acquaint many with how you first got into AIGA and what your leadership role was and which chapter, how long you served?
Sure. So I served on the board of the San Francisco chapter, first as vice president for two years and then as president for two years. And I I recall our first the first board meeting I attended, everyone went around the room and they sort of explained who they were, the background, how they got there. And they got me thinking, I'm like, how did I get here? Like, what what why am I here?
And what I realized is that like, I was the guy that would show up and complain about stuff all the time. And at some point, someone just got sick of that and said, well, why don't you try to fix it? And so that's how I ended up getting involved because I was trying to like make things better or fix it, but it was also because I just complained a
That makes sense. That makes sense. So were you were you in
the
design industry at that time? Like where were you in your career as well?
I'm trying to remember. So I had I had moved to San Francisco in February, and that was after about five years working in the South Bay at various design firms doing, you know, typical identity branding systems, web work. And I arrived just in time for the .com layoffs, which were awesome, of two thousand. Then I think I freelanced for a while and eventually settled in at Jennifer Morla Design, working for Jennifer Morla. I think AIGA happened after that when I left to start my own sort of independent consultancy.
And so I was in I was sort of involved in the design community already. I did showing up to events, you know, knew a lot of folks that were, you know, at different firms in the area. So I I remember my first maybe not my first AIG event, but I'd show up to AIG events and, you know, you'd show up and I'm not sort of an introvert. Like, I don't, like, meet people. I just walk up to them in front of hotels and stand near them until they talk to me.
And I remember I was at an event, and at the time, the executive director of San Francisco AIGA, Amos Clausner, saw that I was by myself and alone, I guess. And he came up and he said hi to me. And he welcomed me welcomed me into the organization. He introduced me to a couple of people. And, like, that made all the difference.
Because, like, then I felt a little bit more comfortable. I'd still show up and not know many people, but eventually, would show up and be able to see people I knew and friends. So, yeah, it was just a it was just a good experience for sort of getting into the organization.
¶ Brian's Journey into AIGA Leadership
That's amazing. And when you attended the two thousand eight Omaha Leadership Retreat, where what was your position in leadership at the time of the chapter?
I see the vice president of I like, honestly, that it's it's it is literally all a blur. Yeah. I can't remember which years I did what.
What other leadership retreats did you attend? Do you remember?
I remember Miami.
Oh, Miami is 02/2007, I think.
Did I go to Miami before Omaha?
Must have been.
That's how good my memory is. Like, if I had a list, could be like, went to those.
I know. I know. We need to them. Yeah. We need
to build them because
Yeah. That that would help because I feel like I probably went the four years I was on the board.
Okay.
And then when later, there was a break, and then I joined the national board, and I probably went to some of those as well.
Yeah. That's that's when I met you was when you were, part of the national board. You know? You you had this great video montage.
One minute. Right?
Sixty seconds.
Sixty seconds.
And at the end, you said something like, you're not doing it right if you're not getting death threats or something like that. This was you talking about, you know, taking pictures of people on their phones as they're driving. Right? Which I thought was just brilliant. And, you know, you were showing some of the responses that people were giving. Am I remembering this correctly? Maybe I'm not.
No that that's that's exactly what happened. Okay. Because they give you sixty seconds to introduce yourself and most people would get up there and be like, hi, I'm so and so from the whatever chapter and blah blah blah. I'm like, does any like, does anyone care? I don't know.
Do you I mean, maybe maybe they do. So I just thought I'd show a sixty second video of a montage of, like, comments that people made, some of which included death threats in response to a project that I did set to like, grams to like German metal music. So it was, you know, it had some yeah.
Right. And that was that was memorable for me because obviously I know there were other people there, but I know who you It worked. It totally worked. And I thought that was brilliant. I thought that was absolutely brilliant. And so that was, geez, for me, that was Denver. And then you did it again in Grand Rapids.
I only got one good video, so I'm just gonna keep using it.
I love it.
That project is twit spotting. Right?
Yes.
Can you can you explain that that project?
¶ The Twitspotting Project Explained
I was commuting a lot down 101, which in the Bay Area is like this stretch of highway. It's about 35 miles. And oftentimes I would do it as like part of a rideshare or shuttle or like carpooling or whatever. I didn't like there's just a lot of commuting for me and I don't like driving that much. And I started, like, looking out the window a lot during these Mhmm.
When I was as a passenger. And if you ever pay attention to people on the freeway, you start realizing both how many people pick their nose, which is a lot, but also how many people are on their phones. And so this is stop and go traffic on a freeway. This is like not like you're just cruising along easy. This is like literally stop, go, stop, go the whole time.
And so I thought that was interesting. And also that at the same time I'm looking at billboards on the freeway and somewhere in my head I thought there should be photos of those people on their phones and they're like while they're driving on the billboards so they can see while they're driving. There's like some sort of connection there in my head. So I just started taking photos of them and then, you know, I put up a website and then, I put up some billboards.
Yeah.
And then like That's a hell broke loose. So yeah. So
people tracked you down?
Actually, happened was, it was pretty quiet for a while. Yeah. And then it got picked up in the media. And when it got picked up in the media, it went really big, really fast. Like, to the point where people like, people called the AIG offices looking for me.
People called not not like people trying to kill me. News people. Oh. People called my mom trying to fight like, she's like and so so a lot of late you know, it was like the it was like the interesting story of, like, the minute. And so I did a bunch of interviews and there was a you know, press went pretty wide.
I mean, they it it was included in the segment on the Today show. I wasn't invited to be on that, but they they mentioned it. They're like, you know, artists publicly shamed as drivers. And I'm like, I mean, am I doing that, or do they do that? You know?
Like Drops are up. I'm just saying I'm just documenting what was happening. I I'm also not making any claims about it, you really couldn't see their faces. So, but, yeah, it went big real real fast. And, I think with the comment threads and the visibility had my mother worried. And she's like, are you reading what's in these things? And I'm like, don't worry about that those people are angry at other things, and they're just taking it out on me.
Brian, you need to get that? Are you good?
I I don't know. That's like an Amazon package or You
didn't want to hurt anybody. You didn't want to bother anyone anymore. Right? You stopped doing that type of work going forward. Correct?
¶ The Impact of Controversial Art
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Oh, yeah. Just decided I would I would close-up shop and start following the rules again. No.
I I I mean, I think to me, if I don't know who said this or where the saying comes from, but like if if everyone loves what you're doing, you're not trying hard enough, like like literally what you want is at least half the people angry at you. So I think it's those types of projects that like get me excited about, Not excited, but, like, think that I'm I'm hitting the right note or I'm in the right spot because there's so much safe work out there that it's like, I don't, like, lie. It doesn't it doesn't move me. It doesn't strike me. It doesn't, like, do much for me.
So I think I'd rather reach 50% of the people and have it set off a light bulb in their head or the other half and make them really angry at me. At least they're feeling something.
Is it expensive to get a billboard to put something on a billboard?
So it's interesting. The answer is yes. And the but there are there's a whole price range based on location, how many you're buying, the duration, the size. Sure. So the freeway billboards are pretty expensive.
But when you get within the city, if you want, like, a 10 foot by 20 foot, you know, they have this all over their neighborhoods, at least in San Francisco, they do. You know, you can buy packages of those for, like, six weeks for, like, what I would say is still expensive, but worth it just to put that stuff out in the world.
Oh,
really? Yeah. I was gainfully employed and that's where the money was going. I think even today, the reason I have a job is so I can afford to do the products I wanna do.
You're still actively doing art, which I think is great. I mean, challenging artwork that sparks ideas that is trying to push for social change. So just wanna say thank you for that because not enough people are speaking up and making a difference and challenging ideas. So really love that.
I I I would say there's there's those that, like, march in the street and fight in the halls of city government, and there's me on the side making snarky comments on the sidelines. So, there's a lot of people fighting really hard right now. I think the art is just my way of putting my thoughts out into the world.
Yeah. So let's get back to leadership retreats. I do have to say that you were one of the very first on the national board that would hang out with us and party. For some reason, there was some sort of unwritten rule way back when, where the national board would always have their separate dinners or parties or whatnot, and the rest of the members and leadership or the chapter leaders would go out and build human pyramids and go out drinking and whatnot. There was definitely a separation.
¶ Community and Leadership Dynamics
And I think that when you were on the national board, Brian was right here by our side hanging out with a beer and, just watching the magic happen.
I think there's like in any industry or community, there tends to like, people somehow self segregate or separate based on, I don't know, whatever hierarchy or structure is is implied somehow. And I think that, a, I don't really care about that, but b, I mean, I had spent, like, these are the folks that I knew from my previous time on leadership retreats. These are my friends that I wanna hang out with, and, like, I don't need to climb a ladder. And I I get it's not climbing a ladder. All those all the people on the board were great, but I I felt like at times they were like more exclusive, so and so is going out to dinner with these folks.
I'm like, Those are the group you would expect to go out to dinner together. Most of the time, Rachel, I just wasn't invited to that stuff.
Got it.
You had mentioned before about, you you were complaining and then finally you're, you're now on the board and you're, you're in a position where you're making change. Was that an easy transition to change into that? And then were there programs that, that you can think of right now that that, you know, benefited from your leadership?
I would hope so. I I do think there's something interesting about the transition piece. Yeah. Because I think it is extremely easy to complain about things. Yeah. It's the easiest possible thing you could do. There are there are there are some folks in the design industry who've made whole speaking tours about just complaining about things. And that's great because it I mean, they're saying what we're all thinking. Like, why isn't the world better? Why why aren't things the way they should be?
And it's it's much different when you're in there doing the work and understand the constraints and the challenges and the the nuances of things. And, you know, I I it happens all the time today. You see people complaining about something and in the back of my head, I'm like, but do you realize that they've got a budget? Or do you realize that like there's only two people doing that whole thing? So I think that transition of me sitting on the side, you know, at an event and being like, why is this why don't we have recycled cups for the water?
¶ Memorable After-Program Experiences
You know? And then you're like, okay, now I need to go figure out how to get recycled cups for the water at our events. That's gonna cost 10% more. It's it's just a shift in like in like from like, passive, I don't know, drive by criticism to, actual responsibility. And I think there's a huge difference, both in in impact and mindset for those that mean, don't get me wrong.
I still complain a lot about a lot of things. But I think I also realize that like, oftentimes there's reasons why things are the way they are and it's not always the people's fault who are trying to make it better, you know? Sure.
Yeah. That makes sense. So as I had mentioned earlier, know, you would be standing either we're watching people bowl or watching people dance or, do karaoke. Those are all fun after program memories, hanging out, getting into very first Uber that I ever tried was with you, Brian. I was like, what is this? We're getting into some stranger's car. I've never done this before. What after program memory stayed with you the most?
I think it was I mean, there's so so many things happened. I don't know if it was like the people in the pool at 2AM in in Miami, or the, I can't even remember what retreat this was. It might have been Miami. Sitting at the Top Floor of the, like, elevator in the hotel, the elevator went up to, whatever the Top Floor was, that was where the conference room was. But that was also where nobody was.
So everyone, like, took the elevator up and was just sitting in the landing outside the elevator at, like, 5AM. And I think this was all because, like, the crew from Jacksonville had early flights and weren't gonna go to sleep. So everyone just went up there and were, like, sitting on the floor hanging out until like 5AM until they had to leave or something. And I'm like, what are we doing? But it was just fun the whole time.
People are talking and joking around and, you know, it's like those random things that you're like, why did we do that?
I I love those times. It was this the spaces in between conversations, the times we really got to know each other, the times that we used to build trust and really build our network. I mean, I feel like when you did an after program hangout, whether it's standing by the bar having a beer or going off doing something like the Sunrise Club or whatnot, or getting on do a pyramid. Those type of experiences I felt like built stronger bonds than the everyday, hey, let's get out our post it notes and really work on a pro problem together.
I think you're absolutely correct. I think the same holds in the workplace. Like, there's that working relationship, but I think people also bond when they actually get to know each other outside of, I guess, the task at hand. And I think the leadership retreats and conferences to some extent really, like, enable folks to hang out on maybe a, like, low lower pressure environment where there's not like a, okay, we're gonna solve all the world's problems with these post it notes. Go.
¶ Building Community in Design
Yeah. Did we solve any problems with it? I don't remember. I do remember the after program stuff, but I don't remember the daytime stuff as much. That stuff blurs together for me.
I remember. I think Sean Adams was interim president of the national chapter, and I I don't remember where this was, but, I think we were doing, the mandate for 2015 or something. So it might have been, like, 2012 or '13 or something. And there were push to notes involved because I remember, like, you know, the big conference room and Sean's on stage. And, I think he was asking people to share like findings from their breakout groups.
And, Josh Silverman stands up, you know, tall guy. I think he was from Rhode Island at the time. I he's now in San Francisco, I think teaching at CCA. And he stands up and he's got this post it note on his hand, and he's already a tall guy, he just raises like, I'd like a mandate with Sean Adams. And I don't I don't know that I've ever seen Sean Adams blush, but like the room erupted in laughter. I mean, it was like those are the types of moments that I'm like, okay, this is this is fun.
It was great. We're just talking a lot about community on this podcast, and I feel like leadership is built into chapters. I mean, once you volunteer and get on to chapter leadership, you learn how to build community, not only with your board, but also with the members. Has there been any leadership experience that has influenced your career right now from AIGA?
It's a great question. I mean, I think there's the the accountability thing. The the no one's gonna solve it. You better go solve it. Because I think there's always this expectation expectation that someone else is gonna do the work.
I mean, from a leadership perspective, it is a lot of figuring out how to get along with people and get things done. It's a volunteer board. Nobody's getting paid. Nobody's being forced to do anything. So how do you motivate people, like 20 person board in San Francisco, to put on 40 plus events a year and have committees and education programs and scholarships and whatnot?
All that said, I do not consider myself like a motivational person. I think a lot of people had their like, we had a lot of good active people that was there in Francisco. I just maybe helped to wrangle them a little bit. So I think I was, you know, maybe it was less about leadership and more about, you know, it was a good time where people were invested in making change. We didn't have a this I think it was the first sort of social change committee, you know, and we'd have different groups for different things.
And that was, I think, brought, you know, like a couple board people, like, we wanna focus on this. We wanna do events on this. We wanna make this a thing. And it was like, that sounds great. So you've got motivated people invested in a topic, and then they bring people in based on their interest in, you know, making change.
¶ Transitioning from Chapter to National Leadership
I think that was a RV analysis, I think founded that, but I can't remember.
Oh, that's amazing. So you facilitate, you support them, and they're the ones who bring those programs to the membership, to the chapter.
Yeah. I I rarely take credit for anything because, honestly, like, most of what gets done is because, people step up and make things happen.
Seems to be a prevalent theme that that we're hearing from AIGA people. You know? It's it's like the there is there's there's plan to do. You know? What what do you want? What do you wanna do? What do you wanna get involved in? And, you know, there's there's definitely room for you.
Is there any community building that you're doing right now? You're at Airtable now. Correct?
Yes. I mean, there's team building. Okay. And there's, you know, figuring out how to work with a variety of, you know, stakeholders across the company. We have a community group that is community building, with, people that love to build on Airtable. Yeah. But hard to say that I'm I'm like, I'm doing that much in my role other than, just trying to figure out how to get all the things done that are being, asked of us.
Got it. Okay. So what inspired you to go from the chapter leadership to national leadership?
Well, I I think maybe the San Francisco chapter always had this, not a chip on its shoulder, but like a why is national doing that? Like, why why are we still doing that at the national level? Like, so far behind or whatever. And I think my hope was to instill some of what we were seeing on the ground at least in shifts in the design profession at a higher level. And, like and a perfect example is, and I think it's still going on today, and I'm not criticizing.
But, like, at the time, we had, what, one design competition, two design competitions. One was for book covers, and the other was for everything else. Yep. And as an industry that was shifting more and more, it seemed antiquated to continue that ratio of attention to we've got two competitions. One is for book covers.
¶ Reflections on Leadership and Change
The other is for this this this this this and this and this. And I think part of that, because of things like that, you start opening up opportunities for more focused organizations to champion those efforts. And that has led to, you know, some challenges in maintaining like relevancy across the I think the full spectrum of the profession. Anyway, that's what I was that's what I thought I was gonna help fix when I joined the national board. I don't think that I helped fix that. Okay.
I was about to ask you.
How did you affect that? Okay.
I failed miserably. I'm sorry, everybody.
Oh gosh. Yeah. At least you gave it an old college try. I think it's very difficult to change things on a national level. The more stakeholders you have, the more visibility you have, the harder it is to make changes. That's just my opinion.
The more more voices and considerations you needed.
Exactly. Were were you involved in any pyramids?
I was a part of a pyramid. There's a photo. I think it's myself, maybe Seth, maybe Varick, I think on the bottom. And then I'm trying to remember what happened after that. But I just remember it hurt my back a lot. Like, think the knee in my back did not But I was committed because I'm like, I'm part of a pyramid. I'm at the bottom. That'll hold it up.
Yeah. Yeah. When you do that foundation, you're kind of putting yourself at risk of everybody else falling on top of you as well.
Yeah. I've seen did remember witnessing a pyramid collapse, where, the person who was sort of on top took a digger and it wasn't pretty. So those those happened as well.
Yeah. Not very not, terribly trust building after a while. Just
Not after a few drinks. No.
Yeah. I'm not doing that ever again.
Yeah. Lot of great memories, and I always enjoyed hanging out with you, Brian, and really getting sort of a point of view in terms of, like, what other chapters are doing. I love what San Francisco was doing at those leadership retreats. You guys had passed out these tattoos. And I mean, it was very creative. It was a great time to sort of show off, get creative, perform, and and just see what everyone else was doing.
Yeah. You you you get a bunch of designers together and and, you know, usually good times ensue.
Right. It's great to reminisce and to remember what it was like, like you said, at this time where not everybody got to experience and the leadership retreats are not happening anymore. So it was kind of a lost era.
That is a that is a shame. Because I do think that's where a lot of the maybe national connections were happening. Like, there's a lot of local stuff, but like, I have friends in many cities now because of those retreats. Yeah. And just a design community that I can lean on or ask questions to or you know, it's like, how do you how do you meet someone in Jacksonville?
You know? Like but now I feel like I could go to Jacksonville and like call a couple people out. I don't know. It's, it's a shame. But, those those were some some good times.
Yeah. Oh, I was lucky to be a part of it and I was lucky to meet you through it too.
Yeah. No. It's best it's like the best designer community. I mean, it it's it's is the design community at least in my orbit. Right?
For sure. And it's been let's see. If all my if Miami was your first two thousand seven, so it's been quite a while. That's what?
Eighteen years.
Eighteen years? Holy cow.
Getting old. Times are changing.
Well, you again, Brian. We really appreciate talking to you and it was fun to, yeah, to go back in the memories.
It's nice to see you again.
Of course. Thank you so much for having me. This has gotten me thinking and now I'm probably gonna be depressed. I'm kidding. I'm gonna reminisce on that. I'm gonna grab a beer, I'm gonna I'm gonna, like, go through some old memories and read this sometimes, I think.
Oh, perfect.
Thank you for that.
Thank you. And we'll try to work on this list of, leadership retreats. I might have to go back to Mike Joosse, he said that he has attended 10 of them, which is a lot.
Well, he was yeah. Because yeah. Of course, that would make sense.
Oh, I do have a question. Were you so when AIGA San Francisco I'm sorry. When the leadership retreat was in San Francisco, you did not attend, but were you in leadership at the chapter or you were just a member?
I think I had just rolled onto the board, and they're like, oh, yeah. There's this leadership retreat thing happening. And I'm like, I can't attend because I've got this other thing. And they're like, oh, well, if you know you drop in whatever. I didn't realize what it was.
I didn't understand what was happening. I think I might have gone to, like, one after event or something and talked to some people, but, like, I don't I don't think I attended the event itself. I think I had, like, work or something else that I couldn't get out of. And, but had I known what it was, I probably would have quit my job to attend. So or whatever I was doing at the time.
100 %. I know that, let's see. When Jill and I had rolled off the board, she would go and crash the next leadership retreat. They would just show up to Portland or whatnot and just be outside hanging out, like, trying to get past Denise Wood to get in.
It's just hanging out in front of the hotel. Nothing wrong with that.
Well, thank you again, Brian. Appreciate it.
Alright. Thank you both.
Okay. Thanks, Brian. Talk to you soon.
See
you. Was amazing.
That was great. It was great to see it was great to see him.
Yeah. I was really impressed to meet Brian the first time because I knew about the thousand journals project that he sent out all these black blank journals and that they all came back with amazing things like I was I was quite impressed. Impressed. I was a little starstruck. Cheers and Tiers will be back next time with more Design Leadership Tales Retold.
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