¶ Intro / Opening
Chapter two.
I'm Erik Cargill.
And I'm Rachel Elnar. And this is Cheers and Tiers.
Design leadership tales retold.
Today's guest is a designer, executive, and advocate for design's power to create real change. She's held top leadership roles at AIGA where she's championed community, inclusion, and design's impact on business, government and society. At the Obama White House, Ashleigh led creative and digital strategy making government more accessible and effective. She later co founded a consultancy modernizing public services and launched dot gov design, a nonprofit connecting government designers. Today she advises, speaks and drives initiatives at the crossroads of design, leadership and social good, pushing for inclusive innovation and values driven organizations.
Say hello to Ashleigh Axios. Hi, Ashleigh.
Hi, Hi.
Thanks for having me.
Thanks for being on.
So Ashleigh, can you tell us a little bit about yourself in terms of what your leadership role was within AIG, which chapters, how long you served, and how you got involved?
Yeah. So that could be a long story. I'll give you the short version to start with and then we could dig into things, you know, wherever you wanna dig in. But I started first by volunteering with AIGA DC when I first moved to the DC area after college and that was, like, 02/2009, '2 thousand '10. I, like, volunteered and set up chairs at events, you know, things that you're familiar with on the local chapter level.
I think I did I did the branding for I wanna say it was the twenty ten DC design week and really got pulled into the community from a fellow RISD graduate who is involved and on the board at the time is really great about helping people find community locally. But I spent time on the AIGA board after that, the board of Washington DC chapter, and through that ran parallel initiatives and got involved in awards and these other kind of sub components and then found myself on the National Board of Directors afterwards. So all in all my AIGA leadership roles span programming coordinator, sponsorship chair, president of the local chapter, conference chair for the national AIGA conference, board director for the national organization, and then president eventually of the national organization. All of that is like an eleven year, know, probably more like thirteen years if you're counting those chair setup years of back to back just being involved at different levels.
¶ Community Engagement and Leadership in AIGA
Oh, wow. You've definitely done it all.
I think it's at the heart of being part of community though, as you go where their opportunities and their needs are. And we could talk more about this later if you're interested, but I feel like the more you give and put into community, the more you get out of it, not in a transactional way, but in a way that I think people feel like, I paid for our membership and now I'm a member and like, what did I get for it? You know, you're like, oh, you've gotta show up to events, talk to people. It's about putting in the effort and and, like, making something of the connections and those opportunities and sometimes that can kind of obviously snowball in cases like mine.
When was your first leadership retreat?
My first one, yeah, my first one I'm pretty sure was twenty twelve Salt Lake City. Salt Lake City was gorgeous and I remember just being so impressed with how well organized things were and like how many people there were from so many different chapters. It was a really fun experience and overwhelming at times, but in like the best kind of way.
Did you have goals coming into the leadership retreat that were different than when you got there?
I think so. Like, I I think initially it was like, you know, ones that you feel so obvious once you've been to ones that you're like, you don't need to have that as a goal. Like, I'll meet people from different chapters. You know, like, you know, like learn about how different chapters do programming and know some of like the differences in how they engage community. It's like, oh that's just like so built into everything that a leadership retreat is for AIGA that you're like, okay check you're going to the leadership retreat that's just gonna happen and I don't know how much I like did this in the first year but I think over many years of going like kind of finessing that of trying to learn people had certain skill sets that we might be able to you know, collaborate with on an event or somebody that did something really successful that we could try modeling directly, see if there's some resource sharing that can happen.
So it got a little bit more specific I think over time.
When I first went to mine, I was VP of communications. And I know that we had a couple events coming up and mentorships that I wanted to explore from other chapters, how they did it. So how did they structure it? How did they get the word out? So I have these goals coming into it and have no clue how much I would get from just being there.
Like like you said, all you had to do is be surrounded by the community, and you're bombarded with creative ideas. Every night, we would be debriefing all the things that everyone learned. It was overwhelming in a good way.
¶ Memorable Experiences at Leadership Retreats
I forgot about the debriefs. So you mentioned that I had, like, a rush of all these, like, debrief conversations that, like, came back to me that I had completely forgotten about, but you're spot on with those.
What made you want to get more involved? Like you said, you could just sign up, you're a member, great, what do I get out of it? But what made you take that next step?
I think it was part, like, kind of trusting some members of community that I've met who had some things figured out. Right? So like Anthony Dowell's a person who I mentioned who like told me to get involved and he knew so many people and he was you know recommending people to connect with so it was like oh like I'm meeting these people too and making my own connections. I didn't really have a network or community in DC when I moved too and to go from art school where you have so much in common with people to to, you know, being in a city that the creative scene is not, you know, super apparent on the surface. It takes some time to get into that sense of community and figure out where it was.
There was like a gap there, I needed some help navigating and so I had supports and kind of mentors in that way who helped me like, no, keep at it, keep going, and was kind of following their lead but also seeing some of the initial signs that there was something to it, right? If I didn't start making connections, you know, so easily at these events initially, maybe I would have been a little bit more skeptical and like tried a different tactic but it was kind of paying off in community really quickly.
I found it always, it always tended to do that. You know, I got involved and went to, you know, volunteered at a few things and, you know, people were really wanting to draw you in, you know, very quickly it seemed. Actually, I don't know if you remember this, but I met you in Denver. It was on the bus and we were headed to whatever crazy after party thing we had going on. And you just struck up a conversation.
And that was great, you know, because you were just so nonchalant about, oh, yeah, I work at the White House. I had no words after that. Was like, I think I asked you what that was like. Then later I was kicking myself going, Really? That your line of questioning?
It's a fair question.
Yeah, no, it's a fair question. But yeah, I was just struck by how accessible everybody is at these things, no matter where they are in their careers. There were a lot of after party activities. Were there any memorable ones that stood out to you or anything else that stands out in your mind as as as notable?
¶ Building Trust and Vulnerability in Design Communities
So many, but, they're some of the most fun times, I think. I loved, you know, Denver prom and like there were paper corsages that were made and stuff, but one of my favorite leadership retreat memories is actually going with my local AIGA DC folks who are all in attendance that year to the amphitheater outside Denver, the Red Rocks Amphitheater, and I think it's even gotten more and more kind of precious and amazing over time because one of the team members has since passed away, but we had this wonderful walk as a team and bonded and got to know each other and experienced a new area that I had never been to before. I know it was the first time for some of the other members of my chapter and it felt like we're experiencing something together for many of us for the first time, building bonds with one another that we're really gonna take back with us to DC and like spreading positive energy around. It was just a gorgeous meaningful moment. But most of mine were less like walks and more like dance parties after party that was like during the day.
And two of my favorite ones, they're like kinda like late night after party style were I think it was Raleigh in LGBTQ plus nightclub that was just really fun. I I feel like especially, like, members of the community were able to, like, let go and be themselves more fully and freely in that space, and it just felt like such a celebration of AIGA and, like, crossover of culture in a way that was really powerful and memorable. And another one was a dive bar in Dallas where, like, there's a pool table. I don't think it was I don't know if, like, Francis was the one that suggested this place or how a bunch of us got there. But you could tell it was usually, like, pretty low key and mellow.
And we just kept turning it up and until it became this massive dance party, people dancing on, like, pool tables with the owner's consent. And it was just, you know, like, kind of a raucous time that had us, like, national board members and chapter leaders and staff members, like, all just kind of mingling and, you know, just celebrating life and enjoying each other's company with, like, side conversations and just I wanna say it's, like, a wild time, but in, like, the most kind of, like, weirdly p j PG way at the same time. Sure. It was really fun.
¶ The Impact of AIGA on Personal and Professional Growth
It was definitely magical. There was something where I I feel that we could all let down our hair and really be with each other, whether it's being part of that sunrise club or trusting each other on these, you know, five level pyramids or whatnot. That that was most definitely the leadership experience for me. That looking around, see who else had a name tag, and becoming instant friends whether you knew them or not.
It's so true. I've had some really vulnerable conversations too. I know in Philly, like, instead of dancing at one of the after parties, me and a member of, like, the AIGA Connecticut team had a deep conversation about, like, family history in the corner, just, like, crying. I will forever feel super bonded, with him having just, like, talked about some of those experiences. So it is it's, like, vulnerable and creative and fun and all these things at the same time.
And I always wonder why that is. Like, I've been part of other communities. I've gone to other conferences. Like, why you might not have the answer to this, but I'm gonna ask anyhow. Why do you feel like AIGA were able to really build in that trust and that vulnerability with each other?
Well, I think it's such a segment when you're talking about the, like, volunteer chapter leaders too. You've got groups of people who are not just AIGA members, which are already fantastic and wonderful, but, like, people who are volunteering significant portions of their time to building community and to take the extra time out to join each other on these, like, retreats, time away from work that you could have spent with family or a friend trip or these other things. You've really got so much in common in this dedication to community and community building that I think a lot more just kind of clicks into place from there, knowing that you're like, you you care about the profession, you are totally bought in on the mission, like, to advance design as a professional craft and strategic advantage and vital cultural force, but you're doing it in a local level and local flavor. And, you know, having so much in common, I think, a as a basis makes it even more intriguing, the the differences between how things show up on a local level or makes you even more curious, found, on, like like, yeah, Rachel, what's your experience?
How did you get into how did you get into this? Because everybody's journey is so different, and yet we've all kind of come into a similar place somehow.
It's so different, and that's what the whole series of conversations have been about is how did you get in? Why did you get in? But the one thread I think that has bridged us all is that we're all highly empathetic. We're all highly creative. We we really care about building community. And that might just be it. That might be the simple answer, is that we just all love what we do. And so much so that we spend our waking hours unpaid to do what we love, which is this. And
¶ Creating Initiatives: DotGov Design Conference
there's no ego. I didn't find any ego involved. I mean, was there to get something out of it or equally put something into it that they all wanted to be a part of.
What were your first retreats?
Mine was Denver. I got a late start, in the design community as it were. I was in my early forties by the time I got involved with AIGA and everything. And I wish I had gotten involved a lot earlier. I was nervous because I was older and I wasn't sure how people were going to embrace me being there. And, you know, it was such a non issue. And just like you said, I started by volunteering. I volunteered one time and then somebody approached me about being on the board. And then
That's fast commitment escalation. They were on Well,
and it was for something that absolutely terrified me at the time, which was, you know, cold calling people and asking for money was not in my wheelhouse, but I took that on because I was, number one, I didn't want to let anybody down. Number two, I believed in the mission. And number three, it was a stretch goal. Was like, okay, I'm learning here. But yeah, I was on the fast track. It was Denver then Grand Rapids after that.
Grand Rapids was so much fun. My first retreat was Omaha, Two Thousand And Eight. It was definitely life changing. So I feel like that is the one benefit of being on the board, that just changes your life. I mean, after that, I you know, up until that point, drink the Kool Aid, you're doing your best, and then after that, it's like, oh my gosh. I'm never going back to being a civilian after that. I'm a lifer.
You're like, who would've wanna miss this? Yeah. Exactly. Keeps you involved. I only wish some, like, more chapters had more people to send.
I know that it was, like, hard if you're a really small chapter. There were limited seats. So I felt super privileged to be a part of a large chapter where we got to generally send, I think like five, sometimes six people. That was that was huge in it. I imagine it feels different too if you're going and meeting people for the first time and you're like one from your chapter.
And you got much deeper into it. So you didn't just stay in your chapter level, you went much further. So can you tell me a little bit about the .gov design conferences that you were involved with?
This is in parallel to being on the local DC chapter, but when I was working in government and serving on my board locally, I'll actually back up a step and say, because you mentioned Erik too just having questions being like, my gosh, creative director at the White House. I had my own experience like that when I was board member for AIGA DC and I met the creative director at the time, Kodiak Starr for the White House. And so I part like I think AIGA for even helping me get the connections that led to me working at the White House was just like a happy hour event, but that's how I even knew that that was an opportunity. But in general, like I kept, you know, volunteering even while working at the White House, which was a lot to juggle, but I noticed how segmented designers were across government, and so many in the DC area, but also state and local government. You could have in DC a designer and department of energy who's doing something really similar to a designer and department of labor and they have no idea and they barely have any support in their agencies for it.
So I was like, you know, some of this could be solved. Low hanging fruit, we can create within AIGADC this initiative to connect and empower government designers because they're being paid by taxpayer dollars. So it's a good idea anyways to keep them from doing the same work as each other if there's knowledge sharing, resource sharing that's gonna benefit everyone. So we started with just, you know, monthly events, and they were just part of the AIGA DC programming, but branded. And we asked the community over time, like, do you want this to be separate or not?
And they were like, I think that credibility with AIGA is important. So those who are participating really helped us decide to make it a full blown initiative within AIGA DC. And then over time, it was successful enough that I was like, I think we're ready for a conference. And to be honest, everybody else was like, Ashleigh, stop it. No.
It's too it's too much. But one of my problems is I like I do a lot and and I had gotten asked to speak at like How Design Live in Chicago, so I also was like I'd love to have a safe group that I could talk about some of this stuff with and like and practice my own talk with. So I put together kind of chaired and organized and wore way too many hats for the first conference for .gov design and it was really, you know, scrappy in nature. But the design community and government really loved it, and it was pulling in more people from state and local too. Some people were traveling, you know, many hours to get to this thing, and so that helped us go, okay, there's more here that we can do and invest in having, at the time, the aim was yearly conferences and they've spaced it out since.
¶ Lessons Learned from Leadership Roles
So I'm glad to have set up that effort and initiative and it's one of those things that also taught me a huge lesson about like ownership when you're doing community work. I think it's very tempting especially in the design space there's pressure I feel, to be like, to own the IP, to hold everything, you know, close, because people are always trying to, like, steal from artists, like, concerns. But when you're doing stuff in community, it's such a different vibe and I felt really kind of grateful and excited that I was a big part in building this thing and now it is like fully operating and running as a part of AIGADC, even though I'm not a part of the chapter anymore. I'm not directly a part of that initiative myself. So, it's cool to see things even continue to like grow up without you.
And I think that's an experience I'm sure is not, you know, uncommon in AIGA in general.
That's so wonderful. I'm sure you benefited so many people.
For
sure. I mean, the connection helped you, but connected hundreds more than you.
I mean, it's cool. One of the first conference, I don't know if you've all, this is dorky government design stuff, but The US web design system is like the unifying system across government websites for design and engineering systems and structures. You know, you might be familiar with other ones like material design and stuff too, these design systems that are really impactful. The first prototype and discussions about The US web design system started at the first dot gov design conference and Oh wow. Was like, what do you think?
Can we do this? Can we put it together? And it was one of those like unconferenced sessions that somebody led during that time. So it just gave people like a forum to hash out these ideas in person too. So I feel excited to have been a part of building that up.
That's one of the like many stacks in parallel where it gets really messy because I'm like, I was like, is it gonna be part of AIGA DC or is it not going to be in it and ended up feeling really nice to kind of package that together and is part of my time on that local chapter, but it continues today.
I can't tell you how many times I've referenced that US web design system at my previous job, which was in logistics. And as a designer, a lot of times you need to negotiate and convince people of certain things. And, you know, as thorough as that website was, it was easy to take something and say, this is what I'm talking about here. And if it's good enough for the US government, it should be good enough for us. Right?
¶ Reflections on Community and Future Engagement
That's awesome.
In your time of leadership through AIGA, is there anything that influenced your career or anything that you've learned from it that you're using now?
Yeah. I mean, a ton. The first experience that I got managing others and, like, directly supervising others was through AIGA. So even it helped me in my career trajectory because, you know, I had a boss that was like, well, you haven't managed others. I don't know if this would make sense.
It's like, actually, manage a team of 23 people outside of here. And they're like, wait, what? That's huge. And of course, I've built on that substantially over time, but it like that initial experience has been a cornerstone in my career and I think not every workplace supports people on their management journey, but because the DC chapter, you know, had been operating for a while, they're really good playbooks for your own local leadership retreat and how to orient new team members and things that I in part could just take for granted is like this is just how it should be done. Should you're gonna need to orient people when they join any team.
You need time for this. It's an investment. You have to make sure everybody's on the same page that has become, you know, essential to how I lead any project team or company team, people that I'm managing to. I also have my, you know, more on the, like, negative lesson learned side. I had my first experience splitting a role with somebody and learned that that really isn't for me, it's not for my personality type. So I it was somebody I respect the hell out of too, to be quite clear. But
Yeah.
We were both co programming directors, and they were very big vision people and I was like, but we have to get things done too and felt like I was just doing so much more like operationalizing things and the balance wasn't there. So I just learned about myself, what works for me, what doesn't work for me on that front. And I think it saved me some pain later where I could have shared responsibility on something and just setting more clear lines on, you know, different roles, what they do, how they complement each other instead of just, like, dividing it down the middle and hoping hoping it'll it'll work out in the end.
I think we all learn a lot of management duties and lessons while we're in AIGA. Not only is because everybody is a volunteer, and so you're also weighing out what people want to do and get out of the experience versus what what you're going to do and and try to balance both of those. But also negotiation. I mean, there's a lot more negotiation than I ever expected to learn Yeah. In AIGA.
All we knew is that we had a job to do. And thank God with AIGA, we knew what the job was. It wasn't like, okay. Let's sit here and brainstorm. What are we gonna do for revenue? Events was mostly what people were doing. And so how you did it was different from board to board. And a lot of times, because we're designers, we like to reinvent the wheel, so it was more painful than it needs to be. But we found our way. Right?
Like, we all had our own voice in how things were crafted together, how things were managed, how things came together. And I love that. It's almost like we all had a legacy because we had a voice on how that came together for our time on the board.
And I think that's spot on. I think it also just, as a probably a subset of the management piece, teaches you how to kind of leave the ladder down so much more than other places because you have to do succession planning. You failed. If you move out of a role and nobody else can do that work after you, even if you, you know, check the boxes and you did it well yourself. So like supporting others and kind of growing is a part of, I think, like the meat of things that becomes instilled in so many AIGA leaders.
They're really like practicing it well, and I've noticed people figuring out how to do that when they're starting a new chapter and it's they don't have all the structure in place and Mhmm. Building on to what's been done before too if they're, you know, taking on a a role within a chapter that's been around for twenty five plus years already. It's a beautiful thing. I know I could probably talk forever about things that I've learned through ASHA, good and bad. It's a complicated ecosystem and after like eleven plus years, there's so much.
Even just like the dangers of, you know, pyramids. Okay. Let's hear myself a good human pyramid.
You know, in terms of pyramid, where did you sit?
I've been on the bottom. Uh-huh. I've been on the bottom. I've been in the middle. I, like have you ever been in the middle of a pyramid and people keep trying to build it out and you're like, that's too many on the base. Like, we need a whole another pyramid. I've also been the person trying to like steer from the middle of the pyramid. We're like, no, no, no. You can't have seven people on the bottom. What do you think we're doing here? Like, do the math.
That's pushing
up and at the top. Yeah. But we had one in where when Sue Matthews Hale was the the president, it was a national board pyramid, and she took her wonderful, like, designer heels off, and I think she was going for the top, and it was just like a three person base pyramid. And she fell on her way up, and I was in it. So I didn't I didn't see it, but I heard her when she fell.
And it was scary enough that, like, I think she didn't sleep that night just in case she had a concussion, and she went to the doctor. She moved her flight because sometimes it's dangerous with the, like, altitude and pressure changes to take a flight. So we're like, you know, be very careful. Be very, very careful. That could have gone a lot worse.
I think we've we've been really fortunate with safety, especially considering that sometimes people are out partying and stuff like that for a while before attempting a human pyramid. But generally they're so much fun and it's a good way to get to know people. Usually you're the smack dab in the middle, I found, of one where you're like, hi, who are you? Or you're waiting for something in a front top. You don't necessarily know everybody in the hotel lobby who started it.
Yeah, there were definitely some questionable moments with Pyramids, you know, in terms of, Should we be doing this? You know, thankfully nobody was seriously hurt or whatnot. But, you know, I do remember, you know, somebody from the front desk calling or coming by because there's too many in the rooms and
Getting in trouble in that way. Yeah. Yeah. I've definitely, like, taken couch seats off of, like, hotel couches and ran them over like, you know, like gym floor mats, I'm just gonna just gonna start placing these here.
That's brilliant. That's brilliant. I love it.
I can't tell you how much I've spent on like Lyft and stuff like that too, just being like, are you ready to go? You know, out and about, you know, like, hey, I see your bed. Are you ready to go back to the hotel? Can I help you get back to the hotel? It's not an official event, but we help each other. We are here to help each other.
Not an official event, but there were always some sort of events. Everyone just found each other and just gathered up. It was great. And Denver was the first time I ever took an Uber. So I was like, what is this? I'm getting into someone else's car.
Grandeur's car, you'll label apples.
Ashleigh are you doing anything with community now?
With AIGA community always, but not in any formal way right now. Lisa Babb, who is on the national board with me, is still a really, really close friend and something that she'd say all the time is, after a certain amount of service you get to graduate to just being a member. And it's like, I'm a member. I've made it part of the benefits, you know, it include my last company that, you know, all of our design team members got AIGA membership so that they could get those events and all of those benefits in. But in a formal capacity, no.
I'm like, people like Cesar Manahua who came after me on the national board know I'm around. I'm a resource if they have questions and stuff like that. And it feels good. I think especially being the president of the National Board of Directors during the pandemic, I very much was like, I deserve some peace and a little time to just be a member.
And I a hundred percent agree. Sometimes service is so taxing that just being a member and just attending is so nice, so wonderful. And I feel really honored that you joined us for this podcast today and just being a part of some of the things that you have put together and just seeing you in your leadership roles have been an inspiration to me, honestly. So I really appreciate it.
For sure. My jaw is still on the floor of that bus in Denver, not knowing what to say.
You're both so kind. It's my pleasure to join, and I'm just excited to hear all the conversations. And it's wonderful to, like, reminisce and, you know, certain details that you just don't think about unless they're, like, prompted, come back, and it's kind of, like, warm and fuzzy. Such a wonderful community.
Yeah. I know. Some of the photos that you have shared, I'm really excited to dig in, but I saw as I was going through these, Alicia we spoke to Alicia. She's like, you have to talk to Ashleigh. And then you send me these photos. I'm like, there's Alicia in your photos. It's so cute.
I'm like, I wish I could send like a whole, you know, I'm like, I gave you a lot of photos already, but I'm like, I wish I could send like all of the photos because I find them, I don't know, they're so kind of fun. It's such good memories.
Yeah.
There were all sorts of like mingling things that they would do for periods of time, like collect stickers from every chapter in like a sticker book, and I think they prompted the different chapters to like make stickers or make cards for some of those years too, and that that was fun. And I always forgot about those fairs. I'd come back with kind of like extra art from events that different chapters did that were, you know, they put out at, you know, open tables and fair style. So you felt like you've got all this good, like, printed swag and
Oh, yeah.
Collector's items that not many people got to experience.
I think the most fun thing was not only the community, but the fact that the whole experience was designed so well. Everything from the name tags and, like you said, the the city guides. I mean, everything was just really well done. The type was just off the hook, and I was like, these are my people. So beautiful. Everything is just so beautiful.
I miss the in person. I wish there's a way too to get, like, all chapter leaders to be able to go to, like, an in person one. Like, you could do that with the remote, but you can't do it with the in person. Are we? Yeah. Well, hopefully, things go strong, and there are more of these in the future, and we get to hear about, like, the next generation of them.
We're hoping so. We're hoping so. Just wanted to say cheers to you. So thank you again for being so amazing, such a great leader. Thank you.
Cheers. Thank
you. Thank Thank you, Ashleigh Bye bye.
Thanks. You too. Bye.
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