003: Christine Sheller of AIGA Philadelphia

Chapter two.

I'm Erik Cargill.

And I'm Rachel Elnar. And this is Cheers and Tiers.

Design leadership tales retold.

Oh my god, Erik. Our guest today is a powerhouse in design and UX, leading the charge as SVP of Experience Research and Design at O3, where she crafts top tier user experiences. She also shares her expertise as an associate adjunct professor at Art Center College of Design. Her career is packed with wins, having built award winning UX teams at FS Investments, SIG, Lincoln Financial, and Motorola. A former AIGA Philadelphia president, she spearheaded key initiatives like the in house design movement and scholarship fund.

And a hanging out.

Hi, friends. Hey, Christine. How are

you?

What's kicking? So good to see you. So good to be chatting with you. Wow. I need Rachel to read everything for me.

I know. She has she has, like, that perfect narrator voice, doesn't she?

She really does. I'll never forget the first time I well, I was in grad school, and they were like, We're gonna do this creative jam thing on a Friday night, and I was like, Okay, here we go. And I log in, and just like, There she was on my screen. I couldn't believe my eyes and ears. Such a

problem. Oh, thank you. Appreciate that. Well, Christine, the reason why Erik and I decided to do this is because we miss everyone. Like, we just wanted to connect and help people connect and know what's going on. The real Really, the point of this podcast is what's going on? What what the hell is up with you and what have you been up to? That type of that type of thing. So we really appreciate you being here. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got into AIGA and Yeah.

So I miss everyone too, and I so miss AIGA and that golden era that we were a part of. I mean, it was just a really special time. So I'm from Philly. I've only lived in Los Angeles for three years now, a little over three years, which is kind of hard to believe. But I I joined AIGA when I was in college, I think maybe at the suggestion of some of my professors at Tyler.

When when was your first leadership retreat?

It was Minneapolis. And I think that might have been maybe 2010, '20 '11 time frame. I had no idea what I was in for. I know I I just didn't know what to expect at all. All all I was I was asked if I could be available to go away for a few days, and I was told it would be a ton of fun and that that I should go, and I twist my arm.

You remember who was who was on your board at that time?

Alan Espiritu, I think, was just coming in to become president, transferring from Mary Beth Crater Weitzel. I remember them having kind of a, like, transfer of power, like, conversations and talks. Nick was probably most certainly on the board then, Lauren Dougherty. A couple of people who I think just probably transitioned off. Helene Calce was on the board.

Who were you working with at Los Angeles?

Probably Amanda. I I think it was back in Amanda's day. I wanna say she and I probably overlapped at the same we were probably in president roles at around the same time. And so, yeah, I remember some first names. I remember it like an Allison, a Joy.

I don't remember doing any social takeovers with you, so I don't

know if I was But we had a lot of I mean, obviously, that's obviously, that's how we met, and it was, you know, informed of this wonderful friendship. And so it was so nice to move to Los Angeles and know that I had an amazing friend here waiting with open arms.

Aw, so wonderful. So when you're talking about you're looking at photos and you kinda don't remember which one it was, the same thing happened with me, Erik, and Amanda on episode one, where we were looking at a photo of all of us at a bar, and we cannot remember which retreat it was. So we're supposed to use our brains, but, you know, we're getting older, so I think it's harder to remember which retreat it's from. And they all kinda look alike. Like, you recognize you recognize all the people around it, and yet those people were at the loss retreat.

Yeah. That means we were having so much fun.

And that photo was taken in a bar. So all, like, all the, like, after program bar meetups, again, that they just put together.

I just it was always so fun to know that we were gonna disrupt whatever city we landed in. Like, the city had no idea that, you know, 300 designers were coming to town and shit was about to get real. Like, it was just the promise of that was was really it was just so empowering.

What was the what's the bar that we and we all made like a a little, I don't know, runway for people when they were coming in to the bar. Do you remember? Where was that? Was that Denver?

I think that was I think that was Denver.

I think so too. Denver.

That was the best. It was the best to walk through it and then become part of it. Right?

Oh my god. Yeah.

Mine kept getting longer. I think you're right. I think that was Denver.

Speaking of which, what was your favorite after program memory or something that you can recall that made a difference?

That made a difference. You may need to just put a big twist on it. I think I think the retreat that I probably think back to the most was probably Michigan, and the town is escaping. Grand Rapids?

Grand Rapids?

So right now, there's a tally, and Grand Rapids is definitely at the top with all our conversations. So,

I mean, the space, the hotel was was off the charts. Amazing, crazy, so much fun. We had a really funny situation the first night. So Lauren and I had, like, this big suite, and so we invited everyone to come, you know, like, let's have drinks before we go have more drinks and stop by our suite. And so that was kind of the party room.

Oh, I remember that.

Oh, yeah. I mean, let's just say that a bunch of us are Facebook friends with Monica. So, you know, the memory of this day just will never be forgotten. So Monica is spends a lot is spending, you know, some time in our room to suggest to us that we should go visit the hockey players and hang out with them. And so, you know, I think we had different motivations that night.

we took pictures with her.

And sure enough, he did remember her. It was her. I'll have to

see I have a picture I'll show you guys.

Cool. Apparently, he had spent the night with her the night before, and while they were hooking up can't believe I'm telling you guys this story. Her This is according to this guy. Her phone rang, and she goes, hold on a second. Shh. Shh. It's my fiance.

My What? Oh my god.

I swear to god. I swear. Oh, Monica. So the fact that the like, other people in Grand Rapids knew Monica just makes that story even more hilarious.

So this girl wanders into your room, and you're taking photos with her?

Well, sure. I mean, we had a drink together.

She was fun. If I remember this correctly, were you doing pyramids in your room?

We were not doing pyramids. That was not a room for pyramids. There was a room for a lot of other things, but pyramids not so much.

Because I know, you know, you described the room as like at the end of a hallway, and I remember going there with Gage. Beer mid time, right in the middle of the room. And then the front desk started calling. Oh. The front desk started calling, and and Gage and I got out of there. But yeah.

Yeah. Do you guys I remember you, like, how grand the stairs were there. Like, it was a really thick, lush green carpet. And so I thought at one night, it would be a great idea to ride down on our butts. And I managed to convince others. And it wasn't just like a straight shot. It was winding. Like, like wrapped around. Oh my gosh. Yeah. That it wasn't that wasn't really my best idea or my finest moment. She had a

Honestly, like, I do remember people getting kicked out of rooms and security coming up and us having parties and, like, what the hell? Everything We

were kind of we were kind of assholes, really. When you look back on it, like, I would not invite me to my house back then or to any of these parties. I mean, yeah.

It's something about the community that just we got so activated and so excited to be around each other. It was like limitless. Like, the possibilities were limitless.

That is set that's putting so much polish, maybe a little too much polish and framing. I like where you're headed, but I don't know that we were that mature. But you're right. I mean, it really was so exciting. I mean, I so many incredible memories, so many wonderful people that I've met over the years.

All those experiences that you know, of course, there was a lot of fun experiences, a lot of networking, but it wasn't all just I mean, it was all fun. Let's be serious. But there were times to sit and organize and learn some stuff and pass on knowledge. Are there any specific instances that you can think of where you you pick something up that you still use today? Or is it

I'll tell you a couple there's a couple of those stories. So the one big thing for me was, again, I'd spent most of my career in house. And I remember attending a session that Andy Epstein led. And I don't know if you guys know Andy, but he's like the OG in house guru. And I felt for the first time that I I really felt like seen and heard and understood.

Yeah. Agreed. Same thing with me. I was just hearing some snoring just now. Is Flanders nearby?

Oh, where are you? That's Ralph. Oh, Ralph.

Should I move? Sorry. No. It's okay. I was I was wondering what that was. Is that is that like a my motorcycle that keeps going by? Is should I move him? No. Should I move him out of there?

He's totally dead asleep. He's like deadweight too. He's we thought our first Frenchie Fonz was loud. This dog is so loud. He's 10 times. Yeah. So sorry about that, everyone. Hopefully, it doesn't allow people to sleep.

So what are you what are you up to now? What you doing?

As you shared in the intro, so I moved out here three years ago, said to the owners of the company, work for a customer experience, digital experience consultancy back in Philadelphia. And I said, what would it look like for me to be in Los Angeles? And they were like, oh, we've always wanted to grow and, you know, maybe establish some roots out there. And so we kind of moved. So my during the pandemic, I fell in love and and got married.

always show up with photos of going to Universal Studios. Here she is in Huntington Gardens. She's, you know, at The Price is Right. I mean, she's everywhere. Like, weekend, she's in view.

I know. We're doing the things. We're having a lot of fun.

I love it.

Just last yeah. Just last weekend. So I think maybe this is where I got sick and had to reschedule this recording. But we went to see Public Enemy last weekend on Saturday night, which was amazing. Such a great show. Yeah. It was it's been on my bucket list forever. And I you know, they're own they're not really playing many shows. And I'm like, they're playing out here because I think Chuck D lives out here. So, that was the right place for us to be with all the chaos happening in the world.

Yeah. Totally. At a decade. At least a decade. There is a lot of restaurants for you to work through. There's a lot of experience for you to rock

the beach. True. And like, just thinking about what we would call a tri state area back east, like, being close to New York and being close to DC and Maryland and, you know, Baltimore and Delaware, being close to Delaware as a state. Being close to all those things, you know, we have that here in different ways. And so, you know, Vegas isn't that far.

He's not that far. I mean, he's in Seattle. So

You've got you've got that too with Portland. I mean, what yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Portland

is And Oregon. All Oregon.

Driving down to Portland anymore is you wanna schedule for it. I I like taking the train down there because I could read or do work or do whatever. And then once I'm there, find my way around pretty easy.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. AIGA Portland is doing some amazing things right now, by the way. They have a pretty active chapter. They're doing design weeks. So it's great to see, you know, communities starting to

Their design community is pretty solid. When I moved back out here, I I wanted to live in Portland, and I was interviewing. And, you know, what everybody was telling me at the time is they were, you know, just do freelance. Just do freelance, which I was which I was open to, but I ended up getting a job here in Seattle.

I I do have to give a shout out to AIGA Los Angeles. I mean, I think I don't know what it was like before I got here, but the chapter is super active and engaged and doing really an excellent variety of events. Really awesome community. And everyone in the even the social events that we've been to, everyone's been super friendly. Even when Rachel and I might be, like, really picky and meticulous about trivia.

Design trivia. Come on.

Come on. You better recheck your sources there because we corrected at just about every and every question they asked. We had edits We were we were not we weren't the kindest guests at that event. But No. We weren't accurate. We were right. They needed to they needed to

I think that AIGLA is really trying to do something, bring people back together. So I applaud their efforts for sure.

They're doing a fantastic job. Yeah. They're doing an amazing job. They they deserve a big round of applause.

I know I know that there's been some some people trying to stoke the fire here in Seattle, but, you know, we'll see.

Why don't you throw your hat into the ring there? Yeah.

No. No. No. No. I you know, because of AIGA, I have a lot to be thankful for. And and certainly that yeah. That does it does speak to me.

But I feel each I feel I'll feel forever grateful to AIGA. Yeah. I mean, it's just transformed my career, and and my community, and how I how I connect with people. Yeah. There's so much that comes that I don't even know where to start, quite frankly.

So amazing. I know a lot of people have groups of friends that might be five, twenty, a hundred people. But it's crazy that we have this shared group of friends that's probably north of a thousand. Like, you name off names. I don't remember them all, but we are all aware of each other.

the feels. Right? It's all the feels. Oh my gosh. Yes. Doug Stuckey too was another one. I know I mentioned his name already. But, man, talk about just good vibes, good people. I feel like there's times in my life where he's been like my personal hype man. Like, he's just he's so he's just been such a great advocate for all of us, I think.

Oh, boy. That would be interesting.

That would be interesting.

I mean, they would they would probably take over our podcast.

Might. It could. And but they could probably, you know, when we're having, like, old people brain farts, they could probably fill in some gaps too.

Oh, most definitely. Yeah. Most definitely. Yeah. Well, I love what you're doing now. I know that I was, you know, making fun of you for for doing all the things and doing all the talks and podcasts and stuff. But honestly, it's a lot of community building, Christine. You're you're still keeping people together. You're still teaching. You're bringing everybody into either to livestream or class or whatnot.

and Nice.

Meeting everyone together.

Thank you. That's really sweet.

And you're also helping out veterans like myself trying to get their footing after a long time. Yeah. It was very helpful. I appreciate it.

So glad. I'm always here. I'm always happy to help. Is it tough? No. We're in a tough spot right now. I mean, design is changing. The market's changing. What designers need to be skilled in and do and the value that they bring to companies is totally different than it was two years ago. So Right.

Yeah. And thank you for that. Appreciate that.

Thank you.

This is great talking to you and catching up.

Likewise, guys. Thank you so much for having Just

wanna say cheers to Christine. Thank you. Cheers.

I know. Bill's here early for anything else for me.

I'll admit.

What are you guys drinking, by the way? Was that a joke?

I'm having sparkling water with a little bit of elderflower syrup and

I'm having sweet. Chartreuse.

Nice. Is that really? Amazing. That is so specific.

Hello. Friday evenings, that's what you gotta do.

Hey, guys. It's Gutter, you know. I'll be in bed at like 08:30.

Yeah. Thank you again, Christina. I know this is a late time, but I really appreciate your time. And I hope that Ralph had a great nap. Still asleep.

I can hear him. Sorry.

Rachel and I were trying to hold back our laughter, and you were just talking like you're so used to it. It was

It's

literally

funny.

It's like sleeping next to, like, an airplane taking off every night, and he has to sleep on top of you. He's really lying. But, yeah, I just I just worked through this, but I'm I'm sorry. Oh,

please. Yeah. I love it. It's it's very adorable.

Thank you, guys. Appreciate you. Alright.

Thank you. Hey.

CIA. You too.

Good night. My she's great.

She is great.

I just you know, I mean, it's almost tear inducing. It's it's like it's it's overwhelming how supportive and and, you know, wonderful all these people are. And it's it's nice to be able to just kinda pick up almost where you left off. I know that's not really the case here, but, you know, there's there's a friendliness to it. I guess that's what I'm trying to say. But yeah.

Well, it's great because when you're around 300 people, there's no way to dive deep. So it's great. You you know, I'm glad that we are doing this podcast because we can dive deep and see where, you know, what the effect was from all these interactions, and also to see where they are now. So

Exactly. It's

good catch up. Yeah. Thank you, Erik. I appreciate the time.

Thank you, Rachel.

Yeah. Cheers and Tiers we'll be back to hear more Design Leadership Tales Retold.

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Cheers and Tiers, Design Leadership Tales Retold is a production of chapter two media and hosted by us, Rachel Elnar and Erik Cargill. This episode was produced and edited by Rachel Elnar.

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