Race time calculators

Cheeky Run Club recognizes that every day we live, work, and run on aboriginal land.

This episode is sponsored by our new partner, Lululemon. Come and join us and the Lulu team for a shakeout run on the Gold Coast on Saturday, the 5th of July at 10:00 AM We can't wait to see you there.

Fun. We love life. Not a stress Welcome to Cheeky Run Club, the social running podcast and community for your everyday amateur runner. Hello, Phoebe. Hello Emma and hello listeners.

we are going to be talking about how to predict your race time. Specifically we'll be diving into the race time predictors from Garmin and Strava. We'll look at how they're calculated, which one is more accurate and which one you should be relying on when planning for a race. I have a half marathon coming up, so we'll look at what they're predicting for me and which one I should be relying on. Yeah. We are then going to have a segment of, am I the asshole? It's a submission from a listener.

I'm a little bit nervous and I'm worried it's probably something that I do. finally, we have also got a listener question about what to do if you have runner's knee. we also got answers from about a hundred listeners who've had knee before, including myself. So we'll go through that. But first of all, as always, let's kick it off with our notable runs of the week. Phoebe, give me your best.

run. My best run was my long run, so I had such a nice long run. This week. I ran with our friend Claudes and we decided to go on a bit of an adventure long run, like just locally. But we lately for long runs, for some reason, because we're constantly catering for all different. Lengths of runs. Yeah. There's normally like a two hour group, a 90 minute group and an hour group. Yeah. And so you kind of end up doing a lot of loops

A lot of the

which is honestly totally fine.

It's great socially.

Yeah. And once you're running you don't really, but I do miss that heading out and

Yeah. And seeing, yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. And also just going past something only once.

Yeah. Yes. I

Because I feel like you don't really get out of the parts where you normally run

the No,

if you are just

you don't, it's the, yeah, it's the same LCH as always. So instead we planned a brand new route that we've never done before. connected a few different of Melbourne's, best running trails. Yeah. And we just set out on this route that was a massive loop, which is also really fun to do. so it was a really nice run. And then at the end of it we met you and my brother and your husband. Yeah. For a coffee,

Yeah.

Well, we always do pretty much post run, but it was so nice and we sat there. It was just a very un rushed

Yeah, it was really

it was really nice. Yeah.

was something about not rushing off. Yeah. Gosh. It's good. post Joe and I are getting jacked. Jim,

guys had just been getting jacked. Yeah. I think David had been walking Ted. Yes. And it was just a lovely way to kick off the weekend. Hmm. what was your best running adjacent activity of the week?

mine was, this is really hard. I have three activities that were all really, really good. Actually, I'm so happy. Four, four.

Wow.

Wow. but I am choosing this one because it is a new thing. I mentioned the other week that I went to a spin class and I really liked it. However, I have been to a different spin class studio and this is amazing. It's called Cycle Collective. It's in Richmond and my next door neighbors, actually, I bumped into them one time down the street. this was probably about eight months ago, maybe even, maybe a year ago, and they had just mentioned that they'd been there and they're like, you gotta come.

Yeah. Yeah.

you around. This guy was just on the bike. He was like. Hey mate, and I was like, oh, is this where I check in? And he's like, I guess, yeah. He was like, what's your name? And I was like, Anna. And he was like, oh, sick. Yeah, I'll pop you down here. Like set up the bike for me completely to my height and everything. And then sort of looked at me on it and was like, oh no, I have to move you a little bit.

Oh wow.

stuff. It was so specific it measured how fast you were going and what's, and then you also up on the TV had everyone else around you. Oh, So you kind of knew if you were dropping off or not. So you, it really kept you honest. And then also my next door neighbors were randomly there. Oh. And I was like, do you live here? Yeah. anyway, so yes, that was really fun. So Cycle Collective in Richmond. Give it a go if you haven't already. Phoebe, give me your worst.

my worst is a running relating activity. I actually learned something about myself this week. I thought, you know how I've been going to the gym recently.

Yeah,

Yeah. I talk about a lot of the podcast. I thought that I was kind of starting to like the gym. I feel like recently I've been like, oh yeah, I, I

I don't mind going, yeah,

mind going, but I learn this week something because

that you still hate it?

pretty much. 'cause my AirPods broke this week. Oh. Tragically I put 'em through

Oh that is really sad.

It is. Yeah. I put 'em through a wash cycle actually, funnily enough, I put them through twice 'cause I did a load and then I realized that this is actually, I shouldn't admit this 'cause Sean's away. I'd be like, I'm just so chaotic with

everything, chocolate on the couch,

on the couch.

AirPods in the wash.

put a load on and washed it. And then I. I had a few extra things that I'd forgotten to put in, and rather than, because there was stuff in the dryer, rather than taking the the dryer rather than taking the stuff in the wash out, I just added the other things in rewashed.

That is

and so the. I should not admit that,

No,

but so the airports

actually, it's good. It makes you seem more human because I'm the always the one that's doing stupid stuff.

It's literally the lat thing I've ever done, but it's really come back to bite me because my AirPods then did two cycles. So like they're gone, like one of them's not working or the other one sound is coming through, but. It's quiet underneath a very high pitched, loud tone.

Oh yeah. Which just

So yeah, you can't do it. So anyway, that all happened on Tuesday. Tuesday night's when I normally go to the gym and I've realized I like got up to get ready for the gym. Then I was like. Oh, I don't wanna go because I'm not gonna be able to, I, yeah. I realize I don't like going to the gym. I like listening to audio

Mm.

Mm.

And I can do that

And literally it's actually is a nice excuse for me to do some listening to an

audiobook. Oh, definitely. Yeah.

Like I don't really think about, I psyched myself out and I was like, I can't go. I don't want to go. And I just had no interest in going. So I made dinner and then I was like, no, just go 15 minutes. Yeah. Go in. And I went and I did 15 minutes and it was horrible.

Oh, I was gonna say, normally I used to do that when I had to convince myself to go to the gym. I was like, just go for 10 minutes. 10 minutes is better than nothing. And then I'd kind of like Get into

You get into it. But like they're just blaring, gyms suck. They're just blaring loud music. I literally, so I've been starting to keep a notes app on my phone with ideas to write about in the Substack, and I literally made a note on the way home, why do all gyms suck? Like they're just like, not nice. It's just loud music.

Yeah. And like fluorescent, there are certain mood. Yeah.

And yeah, so anyway, my worst running related activity was this like 15 minute gym and the fact that my AirPods are

dead. Yeah. That's really sad.

I'm gonna need to purchase another pair, which is very annoying. What was your worst running related activity?

I don't really have much. I feel like I've had a pretty good week, although at the dog park the other day, um,

park

Ted was just excited and ran up to me and caught my arm of my puffer jacket and then ripped a hole and I kind, I thought it was fine. And then. Went to swimming the next day and then went to, I like coffee, got changed, went to coffee after. And everyone was laughing at me 'cause I was sort of bleeding feathers. Oh no. Like you're like Hansel and Greta with the breadcrumb. You just know where you've been. 'cause there's just feathers everywhere.

Is that why I thought I saw some tape on your

jacket. Yeah, he's very kindly. Um, I mean, I could have definitely done it, but he, he didn't, he put some tape on my arm to protect and he even

Good

color matched. I saw

that.

green, It's

green. It's like a bright green jumper and like a light green tape.

Yeah. Do you know one of my colleagues had that audacity to ask me when I was leaving today. 'cause I put it on and I was showing them the tape and they were, and I said, oh, Ted's jumped up, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they're like, oh. And they're like, oh, did he jump up? And that's how you've spilled the coffee all down the

front.

as well? No, I actually gave them the rude finger. I said, no, that's just

it is, they're having a few comments made about the grubbiness

It is a grubby jacket. It's a dog park

It's a Also, can you give an update on the knee from the dog park incident

Oh, yes. I actually, I saw the physio, I had the test done all as well. Oh, thank goodness. Yeah,

you were in quite a bit of pain even over the weekend.

I, I actually was, but then as it came closer to Wednesday when I was seeing the physio, yeah, it had started to feel better, like I could walk up and down stairs way more easily. And then I just had a lot more mobility. I felt like when I was turning even on the weekend. I was doing these sort of three point turns to turn left or right, whereas now I can pivot way more. So that was good. I am so agile right now.

how many times did you call the physio to try and get an appointment?

Oh, I don't know. This is, this is really exposing, I. I did have to apologize to the physio. My man, Andrew. I love him. I trust him with my life. I did have to apologize and say, look, I'm really sorry. I did actually call the clinic a few times and it got to the point where I said, can you please just let Andrew know that it's Anna calling?

Tell him it's Anna. Tell him it's

I tell him.

And then they put you straight

and then they actually did. So if anyone is like, oh, I really wanna see the physio. I can't get in quick enough, just keep calling.

Just keep calling.

calling. Alright. Anyway, Let's get into it.

Let's do it. we wanna talk about race time calculators because actually a couple of months ago, Strava released a new feature which predicts. Your race time across 5K, 10 K, half marathon and marathon. And previously we've received questions from listeners about the Garmin calculator, 'cause Garmin also has this function. People asking how does it calculate it? Is it accurate? And something that I noticed pretty quickly with the Strava one is that it was giving me quite different.

Yeah. Which if either we should almost do. Human Garmin. Strava. What is the best predictor? What the best predictor? okay, so we'll start with Strava. And their performance predictions are based on your actual run history, so the GPS data from your logged runs. it's a machine learning model that's trained on millions of runners. Yeah, yeah. Um, in the sense that. There are obviously millions of runners on Strava, so what it uses is your training data.

it also, yeah, it looks at just information about you as a runner, your age, gender, And then basically what it does is it maps you and all the data it has about you with similar runners. it has so much data around these runners also doing similar times, similar efforts, et cetera. And when they raced, this is the time that they did, um.

I find that really

interesting. Yeah,

Yeah, I did not know that. And I also find it fascinating how they know what is a race and

Well, you can tag it on.

Oh, okay. I didn't know that. Yeah, you

you can tag like I normally,

Oh, so you tag races?

I tag races, yeah. Mainly because, oh, Strava has a feature where you can, every run, you can tag as easy run, long run. Race or something, which I only ever do for

gosh, I have never known that.

yeah. I don't know why I started doing it for races, but it makes it easy. Funnily enough, when you look back at your history, the races, you know, if you look at a Strava chart from the last

year mm-hmm.

it'll show you

which which races. Yeah, Okay. it's kind of yeah. Yeah.

but, so basically in terms of how Strava predicts it. The race times that it, predicts. It's basically saying people who trained like you end up running this time.

Yeah. I also found it quite interesting, so it does require a certain amount of runs on the board, like literally in, within the app. So it just means that for a 5K, you need five plus runs 10 K, 10 plus, and for a full or half marathon it's over 20 runs within the past

Oh, interesting. Oh, okay. So it needs, I guess, enough

Yeah. Which I think is, yeah, I feel like that's actually good 'cause it's, it means that if it doesn't feel like it's credible Yeah. It won't actually give

you Yeah.

Yeah. The prediction, which I kind of like

something really

speaking about it like it's a person.

Yeah. Quite like that. Something really interesting about the Strava one that I've just noticed is pretty much every run you do. It updates your predicted times? No. In fact, every run you do it updates your predicted times. So for example, I did a run this morning, 90 minute run, and I was looking at my predictions 'cause I knew we were doing this segment today and. It showed me oh, your, 5K time has gone down.

just from the, that

has gone down by, that might not be right. I think it was two seconds. Half marathon time's gone down by 10 seconds. And

do more. 90 minute

I know. She's like, I don't know how, again, no idea how accurate that is, but it was super motivating.

Yeah, I can

cool.

it's just that refor that positive reinforcement. Yeah.

and then I think my marathon time went down a minute. No, not

I think I'm breaking two hours.

like, literally just do 90

it. Said I should run with Faith KPI on and break four for the mile,

but no, I don't, I don't remember. I should have screenshot what it, oh, actually, sorry. I do have a screenshot 'cause it, it says my marathon time went down by four minutes. I think actually this might be from the, oh, sorry. It's, sorry. It's how compared to your predictions from 30 days ago. So in a month, my math sometimes gone down by

would make sense. 'cause I feel like you've been training quite consistently. Yeah, over the last month and before then you weren't, so I don't disagree

Strava. No. And it's cool because actually my 5K time and my 10 K time, I've gotten slower the predictions and I've flipped away from training for 5K and I've been training for half marathon marathons. Okay. So I think that's, that's a good signal to me. It seems to mapping to my training quite well.

Yeah. Yeah.

What about, how does Garmin calculate your race predictions?

So the Garmin race predictor is based on your VO two max instead of your history of runs. So your VO two max what it stands for is the maximal oxygen uptake, which is the maximum amount of oxygen your body can use during intense exercise.

This is one of those terms that I have never

Actually like no. Yeah, like I

know what it's related

Well, it's pretty much just saying that the higher your VO two max, the more efficient your body will be at producing energy during an endurance activity, which means you can run faster for longer. So the higher your VO two max, the more likely you are to get a better time. I, I guess the analogy in a sense is the VH two max is the size of your engine. the bigger it is, the more powerful your endurance potential. But it doesn't actually mean you are race ready in a sense. interesting.

it feels more like, yeah. It feels more, like more steps removed. Yeah. In a

Yeah. so how does Garmin actually calculate your BO O2 max?

I found this, interesting 'cause it's, it's only an estimate of it. I think to get your V two max actually calculate. You have to go in and do

Yeah, I've had it done before. So you, yeah. Yeah. So you and your Vito Max can actually train, like it fluctuates as well. It's not as though you just,

in day to day or

well, no, just with your training. So it's like dependent on your weight as well, so, That's what they they need that as a, like measure. Yeah. Yeah. but for instance, you could do a VHM test now and then again in six months and they could be quite different. So I assume, particularly for someone like me who's sort of been a bit of a. Blob, if I,

I,

or like hasn't been running, I should say.

Yes.

if I did one now in comparison to then if I started running heaps and in another six months there would be quite a significant difference. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, but you do it on a treadmill and you actually wear this big kind of mask thing that's actually, it's really hard to breathe. Yeah. Uh, it's like not all, it's not very nice

And it it looks at your oxygen intake and

Yeah. Literally. Yeah. It's sort of how it's measuring how efficient your heart is at the, kind of getting rid of the calm dioxide in up the uptake of the oxygen.

Yeah. Well, so Garmin basically has a rough equivalent that it uses to calculate or to estimate what it would say your VA two max is. And it's essentially through looking at your heart rate data and your pace, and then it obviously does some calculations, and then it knows, or it should know your age, gender, weight. And roughly maximum heart rate, again, from other runs that you've done. Yeah. yeah, so literally all Garmin does is it takes your via two max and it plugs it into a table.

it spits out the relevant time. So

in conjunction with the GE age, gender, and

way. Yeah. Yeah. and it also predicts based on ideal weather conditions but I assume struggle would actually do that

Yep. Strava does that. Um, Garmin, you can actually enhance your predictions. You can put in things like course elevation, data temperature, humidity,

Okay, that's

Okay, that's cool. Yeah. Yeah. Which probably helps. So

I guess, Garmin is more sort of saying, given the engine that you've got, here's what you could run.

If I see everything was Yeah.

like you've trained, you've tapered and you nailed the race itself.

There's a lot of assumptions there.

Yeah, A lot. So, just to summarize, what are the key differences?

Yeah, so key differences, the core input that they use to calculate it. Strava looks at, your GPS logged run data. Garmin looks VO two max. Strava assumes perfect conditions. Garment does too, but you can adjust for conditions such as course and weather if you want. Strava has sort of community influence, so it learns from similar runners and garment doesn't. and if you had to roughly summarize the difference Strava's more accurate reflection of real world race readiness.

of Yeah.

term aspirational goals. Yeah.

and which one do you think is more accurate? Well,

this is interesting 'cause I feel like from reading that I'm like, I, I would trust Strava's model more. But it's interesting to look at the actual data that it's given me. So let's talk about the half marathon. My Strava has estimated that I can do one hour, 22 minutes and 56 seconds. Yeah. And then my Garmin has estimated that I could do one hour 25 minutes, 27 seconds. Yeah. So about two and a half minutes slower. Yeah.

Which I, yeah, I feel like that's quite interesting. I would've expected the Garmin to be a bit more aspirational

would too. Well, it has been going faster for 5K and 10 K. Yeah. So it thinks I could do 1736 or 5K. Yeah. Which I truly don't think I could do. and 10 K is about the same and then half is slower. Yeah. marathon is slower as well.

Yeah. Okay.

Um, so I look at that. I reckon I'll land somewhere in between those two. If, I had to guess, I'd said like, I'll maybe do 1 24 or similar. That's sort of what I've been thinking in my head. Yeah.

Let's remember

this. Yeah.

For the post marathon post half marathon at the Gold Coast. So the Striver thinks you're gonna do 1 22 56. Garmin thinks you're gonna do 1 25, 27. Yeah. And you think you're gonna do,

my goal was 1 24, but I

1 24

a little bit slower than that and try and

okay, so you gotta gimme a time.

1 24 flat. Yeah. That's my goal.

Okay, cool.

I'll be stoked if I get sub that. I'd be

really, yeah. Yeah.

So we'll see. But yeah, let us know. I'm really interested to hear from listeners about what these predictions look like for you and whether you think they feel accurate. do you feel like one's more accurate than the other? Have any of these ever led you astray or totally nailed it? send us a message and let us know.

Yeah, I reckon. All right, so speaking of you running the half marathon at Gold Coast Marathon Festival, we are so pumped to join the Lululemon team at their clubhouse for the weekend at the QT Hotel. We will be hosting the shakeout run for the marathon. On Saturday, the 5th of July at 10:00 AM Come one, come all.

it's gonna be around four Ks shakeout run. So either if you're doing the math on the next day, perfect. Easy jog for you to shake out the legs, get the blood flowing, get ready for your race. Or if you've done a half marathon, treat it as a cool down debrief, commiserations, congratulations, et cetera. it or starts and finishes at the QT Hotel, which is an amazing venue. And they've got a really good setup there.

There will also be a popup Lululemon shop for you to try in their gear. I personally recommend trying their new a line no line tights. I pick some up on Tuesday and I cannot take them off. there'll also be a customization hub where you can create a personalized piece and just all round good vibes.

And we're very excited about this because, well, A, we did a shakeout run last year

and it was

fun. It was actually pouring with rain,

but still fun.

it was so fun. It was so fun. It was such a nice moment a lot of people had just raced and then there were also a lot of people who were racing the next day. And a lot of the people who had raced were giving advice, like, this is what the conditions are like, this is what they wish they'd done differently. It was a really nice. Moment of the weekend. The other thing that I'm so excited about is to partner with Lulu.

Oh, me too. We have been wearing their clothes for.

Forever.

Literally. I feel like I got my first pair of Lululemons when I was like 14 or something. but yeah, we're so stoked. The team is

The team is amazing. It's actually been, we've been planning out this partnership for a little while now, including, went on some runs together.

Yeah, it's just so, it's honestly, it just feels right.

It just feels right. And so we'll actually gonna be working with Lulu a lot over the next couple months, which we are so excited about. So in the lead up to the Gold Coast, but also City Marathon and Melbourne Marathon.

So yes, thank you Lulu, for making this episode of Cheeky Possible and we can't wait for the next few months. Yay.

Okay. So am I the asshole. So actually you hadn't heard of this concept before.

No. I

I might explain it in case any

Yeah, I think that would be good. 'cause I don't think my mom and dad would've edited.

Okay. Okay.

give us the TLDR. The TLDR

of. Am I the asshole? I think It either started as a Reddit forum or it's just, that's where it's

Mm-hmm.

Am I the asshole? Is where you basically submit a story, where you're trying to figure out, am I the one in the wrong here? Yeah. Or is the other person on the other side. they're now just a bit of a. Trope, I suppose. But we had someone send us in one through Instagram, which I thought was a very interesting one to discuss. It's actually, it's definitely not something that you would have done before. Okay. well actually, maybe we'll see.

Oh my gosh, I did not. Okay. I haven't done that. interesting. My, my first reaction was to ask how long ago the breakup was, but it sounds like she did give some. Base post breakup and then, and also asked him and he sort of advised that he wouldn't. So I think she's done the right thing there, giving some space, particularly because she was the one that called it. And if it's his thing, I just think for four to six months just let it be his. you do you.

that's what I mean, even for the first six months, what she's meant to not run with her friends or ask all her friends to not run at the run club.

Well, I just think around breakups, I feel like particularly if you're the one that instigated it, I think you need to be extra, Empathetic is the wrong word, but extra cautious in the sense that respect their kind of space. you

know,

like he's struggling, you know, that's what he likes doing. Just let him have it for a bit. It doesn't mean that you can never go, it's just for the little bit. And also I'm sure that your friends would be happy to run with you another day

Yeah.

else as well. So I just feel like you just respect that for a little

that one. Assuming it's just once a week.

Yeah. But I think after six months or so, I think you, go for it. Yeah, I think go for it. You have done the right thing by respecting his

space and

but as you said, it is a public running space and you are free to do whatever you want.

want, I reckon.

What do you think?

No, I agree. I mean, initially I was like, oh, if, if all her friends are running there too, what she just meant to run by herself like that doesn't feel very, very reasonable, but. I more think that, yeah, I kind of agree. After a point in time you can probably start just being like, whatever. Especially if it's such a big group. I feel like that makes a really big difference. Like it says, it's a very popular run club, so I'm sure there's lots of people going there.

my gut thing is that, and maybe this is not the right thing to say, but I kind of feel like I'd want to start something else or wanna

try something different.

different. 'cause it's like you do that with them. I don't even know if you really wanna be seeing them. Yeah. I don't know. I just feel like it's like, that was nice for that time in my life. There are heaps of other run clubs.

Yeah.

Yeah. but in a sense, she also shouldn't have to be the one that does that. Like if it makes him feel that

he can go.

But. I don't know. I just, empathize. I, I can imagine myself being broken up with and then them also being like, well, I'm still gonna come to the run club, and being

like.

can you just gimme a little bit of

space? Yeah, true. Couple months. Yeah. And then it's fair game. Yeah. Well, I'm interested what the listeners think. Yeah. Let us know. Maybe we'll do a poll. Yeah. Am I the asshole for continue

No, she's not an asshole. No,

I don't think she is either. I think that's really fair.

really good.

You get that wrong. Love.

Was that alright, so to finish up the episode, we are going to do a listener question for the week, and that is, what should I do about Runner's Knee? Yeah.

yeah, someone messaged us on Instagram and I thought.

We're not doctors. We are not,

we're not doctors

physios. Or physios.

or physios. Yeah, true. so I thought, why don't we crowdsource and just sort of see what's out there. 'cause I know runner's knee is quite common. so we put it out and I would say we had over a hundred responses with, recommendations of what we should do. So we've tried to categorize those from sort of not very common responses to very common

more. Yeah.

But before we do, have you had runner's name before? What is

I actually have, so the only marathon I've ever done was in 2019 was the Melbourne Marathon and I couldn't run for the

sweet

six weeks for surprise, surprise. I couldn't run for the six weeks beforehand because I had runner's knee and ne I'd never had it before. And it is really painful. I mean, I'll get into it, but pretty much what it is, it's runner's knee real name, it's Patello femoral pain syndrome. And it's a condition, I always used to call it patello femoral

syndrome.

Yeah, because I didn't realize

it was nerd.

runner's knee. I was always like, anyway, so it's a condition characterized by pain around or behind the kneecap, the patella. and symptoms include pain, so like dull aching pain around the kneecap, often worsening with activity.

I have had this. Yeah, but not yeah, I have had this minor

you. Yeah. Stiffness in the knee. I remember particularly it would get bad after sitting for a while with a bent knee and then you'd stand up and then it would be really painful. and then there's also grinding or clicking. I remember I had the grinding, but it's sort of, that sensation when you bend the knee. It kind of feels like actually grinding is the perfect word. I used to think of it. It kind of felt like you were grating something.

Yeah. And

grinding is

yeah.

and then lastly, pain with specific activities. So particularly aggravated by running, squatting, kneeling, and going up or down stairs. So Phoebe, tell us what the cheeky listeners thought of

we thought it was funny the spread of recommendations here. so as I said, we've, we've categorized them 'cause this is one of the most common running injuries.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think that's why they call it runner's knee

out. So why don't we go on for one? Yeah. So one person recommended Epsom salts, have a bath, put some Epsom salts in.

Nice. I like it. I feel like not gonna change the world, but not gonna hurt. another one, increased cadence. This was actually from a physio

Oh, really?

So,

okay.

I'm backing this

for this one then. I don't understand why, but

I don't, I mean, my non physio or doctor brain would think because you're not bending your knee as much with, if you increase your cadence. because you're taking smaller steps. So I feel like you are like not bending as much,

I would've thought it was more like, less impact per step, but maybe that makes more

Yeah. Maybe.

Yeah. Well if you're a physio, let know, two people said, just hit the naproxen. Yeah. Which Naproxen is a very strong anti-inflammatory, so these are clearly people who aren't shy from just Yeah. Hitting the hard stuff.

Two people said Stop running, which I agree with in a sense, but stopping running and not doing anything else isn't gonna make it better either.

way more people said rest, which I feel like I haven't put in here. A lot of people said

I think resting is good as long as you're doing other things in conjunction with it.

A few people said specifically sleep. Just sleep more. Yeah. seem to be a common one.

a few other people said the Four Runner's Knee Pilates, which is Alice Back's

Pilates

Pilates app. I haven't actually done the knee Pilates specific sessions, but can vouch that all of our other sessions are amazing.

Two people said, roll your hamstrings. Mm. Which doesn't intuitively fit into me as the, when I, one thing you do to solve runner's need, but it's clearly worked for them.

Yeah. another one, roll your ITB. I think this would really help because, and I guess it's the same in the same vein as the hamstrings. If everything's sort of tight around there, it'll put more strain, around your kneecap. So good to get those things loose.

I feel like what I did when I had very minor runner's knee was, 'cause I got a massage I remember and my quads were super tight, tight and I just rolled them

And I, yeah.

and it helped, a few people said, strengthen the little knee muscles around the knee.

Uh, yeah, I, I really agree with this one. I remember I would try and tense my VMO. So your quad muscle, so when you're standing up, you just do it on one leg, but you hold it and you try to hold it for about 30 seconds. It's actually really hard. 'cause I found when I had runner's knee my VMO, which if you, you would all know, it's literally right above your kneecap kind of on the inside. When I got runner's knee, mine disappeared. was so strange.

Oh, there you go. We had three people say do leg extensions.

Yep. a few more saying calf raises.

Four people said quad strength.

Yep. Five people said single leg, quad, hamstring set.

Oh, just yeah.

just, just, yeah. Variations of a single leg strength.

Five people also said wall sits seem to be super common. One person said specifically wall sits and isometric quad extension will fix in two to three days, which is a huge

promise. That is huge. That's a huge promise. I wish I had known that six years ago. I did find that wall sits after a while did really help because I guess it depends on what the reason is with, as to why you got it. But for me it was purely just like lack of strength. So doing that and then onto the next one, strengthen glutes, which over 10 people said, yeah, it's just always. It's a classic. It's always the bloody glutes.

So my, I feel like this comes back to your glutes aren't working hard enough, so your quads are having to work harder. Yeah. but also, I mean, the takeaway for me with this is. It seems like it really depends what's caused your runner's knee because everyone, as we've heard, there are so many different things that could cause it. So the biggest recommendation from us is to see a physio, and they'll give you rehab things for it. Like you actually have to identify what's causing it.

they probably would just have a, so Sony if you did all of those at once. but thank you guys so much for listening. We are so excited for the next few weeks and to see all up on the Gold Coast, hopefully at the shakeout run.

I think there's a registration link for the shakeout run.

Oh yes. We'll pop it in our show notes and then we'll also pop it in our Instagram bio. Yeah.

Sounds good. Bye. Bye.

Oh, he said he likes it when I'm naggy. Okay. Actually Kiara cut that bit out. That is so bad. Oh my gosh.