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Welcome to Cheeky Run Club, the social running podcast and community for your everyday amateur runner. Hello, Phoebe!
Hello Anna!
And hello, listeners!
Today we are diving into week six of our marathon prep. We're going to rate ourselves out of 10 for our mindset, cross training, recovery and fueling and explain why. But our deep dive today is on injury mindset. We're then going to finish by crowning our cheeky team member of the week. But first, as always, let's kick it off with our notable runs of the week. Or for Anna, notable experiences of the week. We'll go for,
What do you want? Do you want the best or worst?
um, well, do you want to just, just give a bit of context as to why experiences and then I'll, I'll ask you.
No, I don't want to explain.
I don't want to talk about it.
so since we last chatted, I have been on zero runs. my hammy is feeling okay. It's still quite niggly, but, you for the foot that I sort of jokingly mentioned last week has is giving me quite a lot of grief. I think maybe I've been like overcompensating on it. as a result of like trying to nurse my other leg. and then also just like walking around in Paris quite a lot in like sneakers, and probably not like super supportive shoes.
So no runs for me, hence why I'm going to do the best and worst experience. So,
So. Let's hear about your, I want to hear about your worst experience.
My worst experience is, so we're staying in the Dolomites at the moment, and we've just moved accommodations. So there's like a west valley of the Dolomites and the east, and we've just, Yesterday moved from west to east and we're staying in a refugio, which is sort of like a bit of a base. You like stay, above like a restaurant and do, you do your hikes or like your activities from here. But the one that we're staying at, it said when, after I booked, I got a message on booking.
com being like four by four needed. And I was like, what? This didn't, it didn't say anything about this when I was booking. Anyway, Google Maps like doesn't take you to the right spot. And we're like, oh, this is weird. Everything's like closed and it's just like national park. And then we eventually signed into booking. com, spoke to the owner and they instructed us where to go. And you literally go up this. dirt path that you need a 4x4 for
no.
so steep. I was in the passenger seat and as we were going up I was just looking thinking, oh my god this is going to be the last thing I ever do. I, we are going to roll down this hill.
Wait, so you're going, so you're going up steep up a mountainside and do you have a four by four?
No, we're in a Fiat Panda, which, for those who are unacquainted, is this tiny little car. It's, it has absolutely no power whatsoever. Dave, at one point, he was driving and said, Oh gosh, I just lost it for a second because the rocks and everything is so slippery that you just lose grip.
Oh my god,
was the worst experience. So that was yesterday afternoon. And we haven't gone back down because I've been too scared. So we're still here.
The panda, not powerful enough.
I know. Um, what about you? Give me your worst run. It
the, my long run on the weekend. so it was on Saturday and I had my program to do a two and a half hour run. And my coach has been telling, I think I sent you the screenshot of the feedback Gary gave me essentially it is like. nowhere near, like go, you need to be going way faster and you're stopping way too much in your long runs. Like it's,
was pretty brutal.
to shreds. Yeah. So I was
was a little, it was a text message a little bit like you were a teacher and you were the naughty little school kid.
Yeah. Oh yeah. Cause it finished with, like, um, next time much faster and no stopping full stop and then in capital letters, please with an exclamation mark, which, but it worked was the motivation I needed. So. the weekend, I decided, okay, I'm just going to try and like not stop once. And we decided we'd just do laps of Albert Park and you can just set up your drinks and your gels there. And the idea is that you can just loop around. You don't need to be stopping at bubblers.
You don't need to be stopping at traffic lights, like all the faffing that we usually do. And, It is insane how much harder that made it. And I would say, sorry, the fact that it was no stopping, the fact that we're just doing for like 33 K's lapse of up Lake and the fact that, um, I was trying to go a little bit faster, like just faster than felt comfortable. Um, we were seven K's in, I was running. Yeah, definitely. We were 7Ks in. So I was running with Sean and our friend Sally at this point.
And we were literally, or mostly Sean and I, we were just complaining so much, you know? And you're just like, oh, this is so, oh my god, we're only 7Ks in. And it's just a moment of being like, oh my god. Oh God, we have so much more to get through. And so I just was like, okay, it's just going to be one of those runs. Just going to feel tough. Not going to feel easy. You're going to just have to slog it out and slug it out. We did got there in the end.
And I feel like I'm mentally tougher from it, but, it was not, not an enjoyable run by any means.
So how many laps did you do?
Must have done, how long is it, 5Ks, like six and a half laps.
Gosh. I mean, that is a really, that's a really solid effort. You know, they speak about marathon training like they're getting used to just being bored and stuff as well. Like, that would actually be really good for, like, your, like, mental toughness.
been good prep because you can so see how, I can see how I would get into a marathon and panic when it felt hard and I knew I had a long way to go. And obviously I hope I'll be going much faster than that in the marathon, but it was still a good lesson to me. I hope so. I hope so. I hope so. Oh, the 7k's in, I was like, there's no way I'll keep this pace up the whole time. But I did, you know, so it's
you did, yeah.
And I did, yep.
Take that, Gary.
yeah, take that, Gary. Tell me about your best experience of the last week.
My best experience? Well, can't run, can e bike.
Oh, nice.
we, uh, hired these e bikes the other day and we're going up a really steep bit and it said sort of like medium grade. The, you know, how in Australia, I feel like if a hike or something, it says hard, it's still pretty easy. Whereas here, if something says easy, it's still kind of hard.
Oh, really?
it is genuinely kind of crazy. Anyway, we ended up on this like medium track on the mountain bikes. And This one really steep bit and we're going over heaps of branches going uphill and like full on logs that you were trying to have to, and they're also the, the grant, the surface was like really loose. So you kind of kept skidding out and Dave was like, Oh, do you want me to go first? Or do you want to go first up this bit? And I was like, Oh, you go, you go first.
Cause I was pretty nervous about it. Anyway, he gets halfway up and just starts. And then fell off. And it was
is this your best experience?
yeah, I just, you know, when you get the giggles and you just can't stop laughing. Because he'd just been so confident and was sort of saying, oh, do you want me to go or
I'll take this one, babe. I
yeah.
got the wobbles.
Oh, I wish I got it on camera. Anyway, that was the best experience.
did you, did you make it up unscathed?
Oh, shit no. It was, it was, I said to him, let's go back down. This is ridiculous. We cannot get up this. It was genuinely, there were like walls to get up. And I was, I was, Just saying, there is no way that we can get up this
Yeah, yeah,
bike. Like this would be a hard climb, even on like your just like leg, like even on all fours kind of thing. Um, but yeah, what was your best run?
my best run was the day after my long run. and I did a recovery run, which basically just Jenna on Saturday afternoon was like, all right, it's nice weather tomorrow. I'm running on the bay, like who's coming and we'll go for a swim afterwards. And I was just like, yes, yes, yes. This is exactly what I need. And. Yeah, it was a, it was just like stunning morning, I couldn't believe it's like midwinter. And so we had such a nice run. And then the swim at the end.
Oh my God. It was like, we waited out and then we, we waited until our legs went like fully numb and just like stood there for a while. And it felt so good. And then like jumped in a few times and I swear I was like on a high for the rest of the day. And yeah, I guess just what was really nice about it is that it felt like I really achieved the purpose of the run, like getting out, running somewhere different. It was like a nice mental reset.
Running in the water it really reinforced the idea that like it's a recovery run. It's there to make your body feel better. So yes, it was very nice.
I just want to acknowledge the acoustics might be a little bit different now because The trusty refugio's wifi connection was pretty poor, so I have moved to the most quiet spot in the town. Although I can hear the bells ringing, so hopefully no one else can, but apologies
I think that's nice acoustics. People can really experience the Italian, the Italian vibe. Hey, before we get into the main section, how did the panda go getting down the hill?
the panda, it was not nearly as scary going downhill as up, I think, because on the way up, I was on the like cliff face side, whereas on the way down, Dave was. Um, so a little, yeah, and also I feel like, because if we were to slip, at least we can sort of like, steer the way down, whereas like trying to steer whilst reversing.
god, this just sounds terrifying. Well, you're going to get to go through it all again, shortly.
know I'll actually, I'll take some, I'll take a video
Yes, yeah, take a video.
the listeners can actually have an idea. Hopefully people actually think it's scary rather than me just being a
Yeah, it's like just a gentle slope and you're like, you're like covering your eyes, like too scared.
yeah.
our own.
we wanted to talk about injury mindset and what really is one of the darker sides of running, I guess. Um, why we're doing this is, well, I guess for me, particularly at the moment, it is quite topical. it was quite topical for you a couple of weeks ago when we were heading up to the GC. And I think a lot of the time you see all over social media, people's builds towards marathons or races. And all Yeah, for sure.
Even the, even the long runs that you've been posting each week, like I'm obviously not posting them because I'm not doing them. but I think it's very easy to forget that there's a, well, a lot of the, a lot of the darker side of running you don't see on, social media. and.
The only reason being is because, well, one, like for me at the moment, there's not really much to share apart from me just like being a bit sad, but there's no obviously like content to be capturing, and it's a lot less interesting, but I think it's a really important part of running. and also like one of the reasons why we wanted to see the podcast. So like for every, I feel like for every marathon build or kind of exciting race.
video reel, there's probably at least one story, um, on the other, on the flip side of it, that isn't being shown because whoever it is didn't get there.
Yes. Yeah. I agree. And I really agree with what you said about, it's kind of one of the reasons we started this podcast. Or maybe like when, when you and I were planning what to talk about for this episode and, and We had an idea in mind, but then what actually felt real in front of mind to us was the fact that like you're going through this, this whole thing with the injury and it felt more authentic to actually dive into. Well, yeah, as you said, I went through that a few weeks ago.
Now you're in the, in the thick of it. And I'm sure so many of our listeners are or have been in this position before. It probably just feels more, um, feels more honest to not pretend that like everything's going fine all the time and actually. Yeah, not, not shy away from that.
Yeah, for sure. And like as exciting and amazing as running is. I kind of feel like the more you get out of running and like the happier it makes you, and the more time you put into it it's sort of like mirrors when it's not going so well. So the more disappointment you feel and the more you struggle in a sense,
The low
I am, and I'm only saying, yeah, like, and I just think in comparison. To just say Dave, for instance, he, um, doesn't get the same enjoyment out of running as I do. And I guess doesn't put as much like time and effort into it. And, um, like sort of like sacrifices in a sense, but obviously they're all sacrifices that like I want to make.
Um, so I feel like if he was to not be able to run, he, although he's sort of He'd be a little bit flat because he just feels like he's losing a bit of fitness. Aside from that, he doesn't really mind that much. Whereas for me, you know, there's so much purpose, there's structure, there's like opportunities, there's friends, and also just that like constant, the constant endorphins that you feel from running.
so I think that's why I I struggle a bit more and I think it's a good thing to talk about as well
or even like, um, I feel like we're kind of injury veterans in some ways, in that like we've been there and experienced it before, whereas I think a lot of people who listen to our podcast, uh, I don't want to say injury virgins, but like they've maybe have recently experienced an injury for the first time. And I think it's a lot to process. And as you know, we don't like to gape keep, Okay, to keep knowledge, do we?
So I think it'd be interesting for us to share some of the things that we've learned in terms of how to think about injuries. And, and I guess to talk to like the way that we're going to, we wanted to approach this is, um, We're going to reflect on, I guess, some of the dominant emotions that we've both felt in the wake of an injury. So, me from a couple of weeks ago when my Achilles slid up and I had to have a few weeks off. And then Anna with, like, where you're at at the moment.
So we're going to talk about those emotions and sort of the accompanying internal narratives that can really dominate when you're injured. We'll unpack them a bit, understand them, assess where they come from. And then we're going to try and reframe them.
Yeah, I think before you actually said that this is going to be, um, my own personal therapy session, didn't you? You
see.
at the end of this, gosh, you are going to feel so good.
We'll see. I don't know how we're gonna go reframing some of these things. We might just spiral. Who knows where this is gonna go. Um,
in both of us sobbing into the camera.
I mean, at least hopefully then some of our listeners will feel less alone. They're like, Oh God, it's not just me.
That or they will feel completely alienated and be like, Wait, why am I listening to these two people? They are clearly Um,
Could go either way at this stage.
only time will tell. Um, all right. So the first one, that I think you wanted to chat about was shame. And so can you give us a little insight into what it means for us
yeah,
also where it originates from?
yeah, I mean, I'll try and think of where it comes from, but I think for me, and I feel silly even just voicing this now, which I'm sure is going to be true for a lot of these things. They sound so ridiculous when you say them out loud, but when my Achilles flat up and I realized that I wasn't. That I was going to have to have some time off and that I wasn't going to be able to race the Gold Coast half.
One of the main things I felt was like, I felt really embarrassed and I felt like I'd kind of failed. it's interesting, like part of that, I think is an X, the X, the embarrassed thing feels like an external thing. Um, like what will.
what were you embarrassed about?
I don't like It's almost like, am I weaker? Like, why couldn't I do this? Was I weak eyed? Did I not listen to my body well enough? Um, did I not understand? Yeah, it was just like I'd, I'd failed, I guess, in, in
Mm.
pursuit of a goal. But, yeah, I don't necessarily think that there's a rational basis to, I guess, many of these emotions. Maybe it's just something like, You have a goal and you put it out in the world and everyone knows it's important to you. And then all of a sudden you have something that kind of, um, ostensibly is within your control. you mess up and then you can't do it.
And so, yeah, I felt quite embarrassed and I felt like I had failed, which are quite, um, I would say it's very rare for me to feel those Emotions in a strong way. Like it's not, they're not common. Like shame is quite like a, it feels like quite a deep sort of,
a strong word, yeah. Like it's a strong feeling, yeah. Yeah, and I felt, yeah, just knowing you and like so many other facets of your life, like I would never associate you to feel any of that. So yeah, it's interesting, like hearing you, chat about that, but like, I completely agree. I don't know. And I mean, like, obviously it's not healthy to compare yourself to anyone, in like any way of life.
But I feel like I get almost a little bit embarrassed about that because I feel like this is the second time that I have tried to run a marathon. The first time, I did end up doing it, but like I didn't run for sort of the six weeks prior.
This was five years ago, and I almost feel a little bit embarrassed in the sense that I'm like, what's the point of, Uh, what's the point in setting these goals and doing the things that like so many of the people around us do and seem to almost do with ease when I sort of like keep falling over? And then you almost like lose confidence in your body, I guess. Um, because it kind of makes you feel like, oh, maybe I'm like not built for this.
Yeah, I feel like, um, think you're totally right in the, like, you lose a bit of confidence or a bit of like motivation, I guess, in the what's the point question.
Yeah. Yeah. and I think the way to reframe it, I don't know, like you voicing that stuff. I think like, oh my gosh, that's silly. Like no one would think that you're a failure for not being able to get to the start line. It's just like part and parcel with running.
but I mean, it's like so easy to give that advice to someone else, but like not be as, Kind to yourself with those thoughts and I think as well just like coming back to That running why and like we do set these goals because they're driven and committed people but Coming back to the why we run and which in itself is like really difficult to get through when you can't run But is because like we do it to be better people and it is like a big addition to our lives rather than our whole life.
So I think that is like something to really hone in on, Marathons and that kind of thing. And I remember, like, we did speak about, like, at the end of the day, like the, those goals, like the goal of Berlin or whatnot, like that's like three hours or so on one, any given Sunday. Like, it's not so much that I don't think it's more like the process, to get there. But I think it's, I think that's like what is maybe hard. Mmm,
this is harder with something like running, and why, you know, emotions like shame or feeling embarrassed, etc, might come into it, is because I actually think it's quite rare As adults to like set big goals and communicate them to people and and and they're really visible I guess it's just, I don't know, I feel like people, lots of people who go on to, you know, study, things that require you to do big exams throughout your life and so on, I feel like that's, that's a similar example.
I don't know if it's comparable or not, but you might be like, Oh, I'm studying for this big exam to, you know, get into XYZ. And then if you don't get into it, then you kind of, people ask how it was, and you're like, Oh, actually I didn't pass or I didn't get it. It's not, it's, it's not that dissimilar from that. It's just like.
And I guess that's the, that's almost a good reframe is like, actually, all that happened is that you put yourself on the line for something and, and it didn't work out for you. And that's something to be ashamed of. Like, that's something to be really proud of. You put yourself out there and you gave something a go and you pushed yourself and it didn't all come together for you, but that's, there's nothing embarrassing about that. That's
yeah, yeah
go through their whole lives, never doing that.
yeah that's true, yeah you should be proud to try to, um, to put yourself in that vulnerable, vulnerable position. I even think like now, thinking, I don't know, in, yeah, in your head it sort of makes a lot of sense, but then. Speaking of that, you're like, Oh, well, that's silly. Like I even think, cause obviously it was like advertising doing the billing marathon and raising money for MS.
So even at work, like I've been doing like morning teas and stuff to like raise money and like the thought of going back to work, but being like, Oh, ha ha. Like I didn't do it.
Yeah.
that they've wasted their money, but.
No. Yeah, of
because at the end of the day it's like still going to the charity. It doesn't
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
but yeah in your like voicing it now I'm like oh well of course not that's silly. But in your head that's just like another thing that you're like oh my god I've asked people for money they've donated to this page. I can't even do it. Um,
But you're right. I think that's a good, that's, um, what's that effect. I think we've spoken out for a spotlight effect, which is that idea that everyone feels like there's this spotlight, like subconsciously there's this spotlight on them in life and everyone's like paying attention to them and cares what they do or don't do, whereas their reality is externally.
Like no one cares whether, and we've spoken about this before, whether you run and what you do and like, they only care cause they'd be like, Oh, you know, hope you're okay or whatever. Like.
Yeah,
that's an important bit of perspective to be like, almost like to call ourselves out when we notice that kind of narrative and be like, Oh no, that's right. Externally, no one cares. Internally, I need to redefine what success looks like for me in this context. And it's not actually having achieved that it's, it's trying in life and it's giving things a go and it's putting myself out there. And that's something to be proud of.
Yeah. Yeah.
So the second emotion that we wanted to speak about is fear. So Anna, do you want to tell us this emotion or what does feeling fear look like for you at the moment?
Um, I feel like there's a couple of parts to it. I think the, the main part for me, which is sort of funny because I just have this in day to day life anyway, is like the fear of missing out. So it's like the fear of missing out on all the experiences,
Um,
um, at the moment, like going on the long runs, and the Running in all these like different cities and also just that general sort of like excitement and Like emotion that will come with doing the marathon like with your friends and everything So I think that is a major factor and I think as well the fear of losing fitness in the sense that You obviously like each week that you're not running you're losing fitness and just there like knowing that it takes a lot of time and hard work to get that.
So, um, I think that is one element. I think for me though, that is sort of lower on the list. Like I, um, Which I can't, I don't know, in a sense I sort of found, find interesting because like, I love being super fit, but the fear of the fitness is less so and it's more the fear of missing out and also of the unknown for me that I struggle with. Like if someone was to say, Oh, you just can't run for another four weeks and then you'll be fine again. I'd be like, okay, cool.
I can get my head around that. But it's like the unknown of like never, you kind of almost like, um. Sometimes like if you like get a little bit overwhelmed and you're like, Oh my God, I'm never going to be able to run again, which like, obviously I will be like, I've gone through injuries before and like I will with this one. but yeah, it's just like the, the not knowing.
And cause I think that one of the reasons why we love running so much is because it gives you that sense of purpose and sense of structure. And so when that's taken away, trying to like take back a little bit of that control is hard when you don't know when you'll be able to do that again.
Yes. it's really interesting that piece about the unknown. And if you knew it would be less scary if you just had that certainty about how long it would take and, and that's the thing. There's an example that we've spoken about this before, not on the podcast, but there's a book that we've both read called conversations on love. And they're talking about, um, she's talking
Great book, by the
great book. by Natasha Lum. And. She's at the start of the book. She is kind of exploring like she's sort of single in her Uh, like twenties, early thirties. And she's stressing about whether she would never, uh, whether she would ever meet like a partner, like she really wants to settle down and she specifically says, like, all I want is for someone to just tell me, like, you will or you won't. And this is when, and then I'll be fine. I can live my life and I can enjoy it.
And like, it doesn't actually matter day to day, but I just want to know, cause it's the unknown and it's the uncertainty that actually can be really pervasive and like, filter in through your mindset. And I think for me, yeah, to go when I was struggling a couple of weeks ago, it was that exact same fear of the unknown that was probably the most pervasive. thing because it was like every morning I'd wake up and I'd be like, how sore is it? And then I'd stand up and I'd be like, attest it.
And then everything you do, you're like aware of it. And I think that can be one of the most like destructive emotions in terms of pulling you away from the present.
Yeah, and because it kind of becomes all consuming and it's also just exhausting and I think that's why it's so good to sort of like seek professional guidance and like make a bit of a plan and and like have those smaller goals that you can, you know, Sort of like look at, because then it kind of takes your, you've, um, you've like got that structure and you're like working at things. So I feel like then there's that, again, it's like taking back that control.
So then hopefully you're like, mine's not solely focused on like, Ooh, does it hurt doing this? Ooh, does it hurt doing that? What about now? What about this?
Exactly.
yeah, because yeah, you've got your like next little goals to, to work towards. I think as well, it's that, sense, which is like kind of what I've been thinking about is that like, I want to be like running for the rest of my life. so like not running for a little bit now, for like longevity purposes, like it's better to back away and not continue to hurt yourself.
And I think a lot of the time, you know, like we even saw in the Olympics quite a lot about, um, and like I, it's amazing cause it's just like such a testament to how it's like physically and mentally tough some people are, but you know, like running through injuries and how it's sort of, like celebrated in a sense. But I actually, I think there's like a lot to be said about like, respecting your body.
Like we only have one of them and like, we've only, we've got the same one for the rest of our lives. So I think like.
Making sure, like, thinking sort of like long term and being like, I don't know, even in the Dolomites at the moment there are a lot of older people and that are walking around and like some are obviously a lot fitter than others and like some are jogging and everything and it's, and you sort of have to think, well I want to be that person, so I'm not going to be that person if I continue to just like run through, injuries now.
Yes, I love that perspective of like wanting to run for your whole life.
And I think as soon as you have that perspective, this like short term, couple of weeks, whatever, not being able to run or like, losing some fitness or not knowing what's going to happen and then like what your injury status will be in the next couple of weeks all feel so much more manageable because it's like of course in time and you'll be back running and you'll forget this ever happened and and I feel like as soon as you think about running as like such a long term thing that you always
want to do it's like yeah they'll just be parts of our lives that we we don't run as much and there's not anything inherently good or bad about that it's just how life will work and so that kind of Along with, as you said, spoke up for having that, focus on what you can control and make it, make a plan, having that overall perspective of in the long term, this is just a, one of the natural speed bumps of a sport that involves like putting your body through stress.
And, and I love that of like respecting your body as well.
so onto the next, which is quite a big portion of what I'm feeling at the moment and probably what you felt a little while ago. And that's the feeling of grief, which I sort of in some ways think it's silly to think because it's like, oh, it's just a sport. But. In a lot of ways, like, as we've spoken about, like, it is so much more than that. and I think I've kind of grappled with, I don't know, I was talking to Dave a few days ago and he's like, it's okay to be sad.
Like you can be like sad about it. Cause I feel like I've sort of been trying to fight it off. Cause in, on one hand I'm like, Oh, we're on holidays. It is like, so amazing being over here. Like why? Um, I, having this feeling of like being a bit sad about the fact that, like, I can't run, like, I should be so happy, like, look around, and then you kind of feel even more guilty for feeling a bit sad whilst on holidays.
So I kind of think it's that, like, it's that, yeah, it's so strange, but I think it's like okay, like, accepting, it's okay to be like disappointed about something, but that doesn't mean, you know. that you can't have that perspective and also at the same time look around and be like, Oh my gosh, I'm so lucky to be doing what I'm doing. Like, I don't think it's black and white. I think two can exist like at the same time.
Yeah.
but why, yeah, why do you think there is that like strong feeling of
Yeah. Well, initially I think the way you articulated was that it was like a loss of sense of purpose and almost like, who am I without this, which really resonated with me. And then I think when we kind of unpack that, like one step further, it is, it is sort of grief for yourself, I guess. And, and something big that's like missing from your life. I think really this would show up in small. Moments for me, this sense of like, feeling maybe a little bit lost.
Like this is such a stupid example, but every morning when we, like, when I sign on to Slack in the morning for work, we do a standup, which I'm sure lots of people in their work at the start of our standups, which is just like, we just write them on Slack. They're not in person. We say like, how are we feeling out of five and like, why? And it's just like a quick kind of energy check in and 99 times out of a hundred. I've give a little description of my run that morning in there.
Just like, Oh yeah, this was my run this
period. I like this.
and everyone in the team knows that like my, I'm often like, Oh, three. Cause I had a bad run or like five cause I had a great run or whatever. And I would just sit there and be like, I don't really know what to write. It's so ridiculous. But I was like, I don't know what to like. And same with like, I'd get up in the morning and be like, I don't really know what to do. Do, like, what do I do again? I think we spoke about briefly. I was like, do I go for a walk?
Like, what does my life look like without this thing? And so as you say, I feel like this is the most understandable emotion because it's something that dominates so much of our life that is gone for a bit. And so, and not only that, but it's really tied up in our identity, you know.
And I think the way to reframe it is to sort of identify yourself beyond being just a runner, which I think sometimes is easier than others. Like I know definitely when, I'm at home, I guess, and like doing a lot of other things. then it's sort of just like one of the hats that you wear. But I almost, I think because I am doing less over here, I've sort of found that more hard. Cause I feel like that's sort of been like one of the, well, it's one of the like sole purposes of the whole trip.
Like, is that like doing this big run at the end and all of that kind of jazz, but there's sort of less to, there's like less hats to put on because I'm like having some downtime, which is obviously really nice. Um, but yeah, I think that's, I, I think I've almost like found the, like lack of distraction almost, like a little bit more challenging in a sense, which is sort of strain. I don't know.
I know what you mean. I know exactly what you mean because you can't just like throw yourself into all the other elements of your life. You kind of need to sit with it because you have a lot of time to sit and, and just chill on holidays but yeah, I feel like I like that point about your identity beyond being a runner. Cause I do think a lot of this grief is like grief for who you saw yourself as. And I think if you can remind yourself, Oh, I'm also all these other things. Then I think it just.
That's like, oh, that's just one part of you.
I think as well, focusing on other areas that you might not have done quite as much if you were, like if, if the trip had gone sort of like how I envisioned and I was like running a lot and that kind of thing, I would have probably had less energy to, like, Go and do like random e biking or maybe I would have been like doing it with a little bit more trepidation because I would have thought, Oh shoot, I have a lot more to lose if I fall off this like mountain bike doing these like kind of silly
things. or even just like taking a moment and like having a few drinks and like playing lots of Monopoly deal. Maybe I would have been too tired to do that if I had a been in like full marathon training. So I think just, Just, like, acknowledging the little things that you are doing, that actually do bring you a lot of joy,
you know, it is actually really interesting. It makes me think that like, we always talk about putting running in its context. And it's funny, cause I fully intend. After Berlin marathon to have a couple of weeks off and to like, just do whatever and travel. And if I get some runs in, I get some runs in, but I think it'd be really good for me to just have a couple of weeks of, of no running or just, just cruising around.
And it's so funny because in that context, I don't think I'll be stressing at all because, you know, it feels like a choice that I've made and it's not existing in the context of like a goal that I failed to achieve. In fact, it's, it's, it's contextualized almost like as a reward for myself, but the action itself is the same, which is that like, it's not running.
Yeah. And it's quite interesting to think about, like, whereas I would be the exact same as you, if those few weeks off had been, you know, Now, rather than after the race, and so that's almost like the, it's not necessarily just the act of not being able to run itself. It's also all the, I guess, the dialogue that sits around it in terms of like what that means and why you can't and the fact that it's not within your control.
Yeah. Yeah. I, I was the same. I was like, I was sort of thinking I'd have like a month of like, not much running at all to like, let my body recover. And like, yeah, as you said, the thought of that after the race, you're like, Oh yeah, that's going to be amazing. It's that pre race. You're like, this is the worst thing in the world.
Yeah, that is so interesting.
Honestly, I feel like with all these three emotions like shame, you know, or rather like feeling like you've, you've put yourself out there and you set a goal and you haven't achieved it and fear of like, um, The feeler of that like uncertainty of not knowing when you'll be able to get it back and like grief and feeling sad that you're missing it like all these things to an extent the antidote is is like that self compassion and self love and like understand they are so it is so fair to feel all
those things but at the same time there's there's a really important reframe that can be made for all of them and and yeah we've spoken about this before but I just you I feel so strongly that one of the most important lessons you get from running is like that one of self love and knowing what it really means to like care for yourself and be kind to yourself and show compassion to yourself and there is no time where you learn that better than when you're injured.
Yeah. A hundred
Okay, let's move on to our quickfire check ins. so let's start off with um, how is your mindset?
I am, uh, I am on a bit of a rollercoaster. I think I, I think I was saying last week I was like pretty good. But I think this like, you know when you sort of, you, um, get your head around one thing and I thought that, well I did, I feel like I have my head around my hammy and everything. But then this. injury has come in and I feel like I was, like a statue of matches and a little bit of winds come in and it's not taken. Oh, and like a house of matches. Is that what the saying is?
And you then then wink,
A
I
of
feel like
Yeah.
came, I feel like I, I'm a house of cards and the wind has blown me over very quickly. Um, but I'm actually okay. I think I'm more just sort of coming to terms with accepting I'm really just trying to like focus on enjoying the holiday with Dave at the moment, because yeah, I am so lucky to be over here and experiencing these things with him. So enjoying, um, the little things. And as my dad said to me in a text message, don't waste a minute.
Aww, that's nice. I think that's good. Good, perspective. And then I think I, I agree. It's probably good to just set the expectations low, and then any recovery that's quicker than anticipated will feel like upside.
Yeah, exactly. And how's your mindset?
Oh wait, did you rate yourself out of ten?
Oh, no, sorry. I'll give myself, I'm still giving myself a four. Being realistic.
Okay, that's okay, we can aim for a high score next week. Um, my mindset, well I remember last week I said my mindset was good, but I was feeling exhausted. And what I think I meant is that I felt my motivation was dipping a little bit.
And I think that's what I felt a little bit, and obviously that all ties in with um, sense of exhaustion and so on as well, but yeah, I think there have just been a few times this week where I felt a little bit, I've noticed my motivation flagging a little bit, and I felt a bit more reluctant in some of my runs. Like, I don't know, the other morning I was meant to do an hour, and this sounds so silly, but I did, I got back to the car in 55 minutes and I was like, oh, that's all I've got.
And I just could not be bothered to do another five minutes. It sounds, that sounds so small, but normal, in a normal week,
For you that's a, for you that's a lot, yeah. For you it's like, oh, maybe I could sneak in another 20 minutes.
Yeah, oh yeah, exactly. So I think I've just noticed that a little bit, little bit of motivation drop, which I think maybe is normal at this stage. couple of big weeks, feeling a bit tired, but good too. This is, conversation is a very good, the perfect perspective reframe to be like, no, no, no, be, be happy. Be very grateful.
Be happy. Um, so what would you give yourself?
Oh yeah, sorry. I would give myself a six,
Nice.
Yeah. Yeah,
uh, was trying to keep you accountable. And, So, what can you tell me about your fueling this week?
my feeling has been a bit better. Can I say a, can I say a 7. 8? It's not a 7. Yeah, it's not a 7. It's above a 7, but I really don't want to give an 8. Yeah, I think, um, what helped this week? Um, this week I went back to basics. Eggs on toast.
hmm.
You know, eggs on toast for dinner. Great, great option. Um, really underrated. And I just, I get a lot of joy out of eggs on toast. And I,
Easy to please.
Yeah,
I get a lot of
I get a
on toast. No, so do I. I was so excited by boiled eggs the other day.
Oh, how good's a good boiled egg? It's such a treat. It's such a treat. Like a well boiled egg. God. Um, oh, I, I got, um, I got my, this like tofu that you can only get at Coles that is just like, it's the best tofu you've ever had in your life. Like, you can't believe how good it is.
Is that the satay one that you've spoken about?
yes, yes, it is, except they didn't have the satay flavour so I got a different flavour. And I reckon next week, my score is going to be even better because you're not going to believe who texted me during this episode, but our good friend, Claudia, who is traveling through Europe at the moment, just messaged me saying, God, I just listened to your episode from last week. I think you need me to be your meal prep coach. And I am, I'm going to take her up on it. I don't know what that means.
Claudia is an incredible. Cook
She's amazing.
write me some little meal plans.
Yeah, that is a great idea. She's honestly, she can make anything taste delicious. It's wild. It's genuinely crazy. I
I reckon I'm on I'm on a good trajectory, I'm on a good trajectory,
You're definitely better than last week.
Um, but that said, I feel like the last recipe Claudia gave me, did she give it to you as well? The dal recipe? It was so hard.
her version of simple.
simple. Yeah, there were
cooking. My version of simple cooking is like five ingredients or less.
Yeah. Mine is Yeah,
I don't.
I know. I don't have a mortar and pestle on hand. No, I, yeah. Simple
And even if I did, I don't want
avocado. Yeah, I don't want to use it. Um, okay, tell me what's your fueling score? Yeah.
even when you're recovering to make sure you're feeling your body right. Um, as I mentioned in last week's episode, the, the Italians do celiac disease very well. So that has continued. I also, even though it's not sort of, it doesn't have a whole heap of nutritional value, I also had some McDonald's the other day, and for any celiacs listening, you'll know that you can't get gluten free McDonald's in Australia. but we, we had an emergency meal stop at McDonald's on the way to the Dolomites.
And I just went in with Dave only to find out that they have gluten free burgers. So I had a gluten free double cheeseburger, which was I'm sure a lot of McDonald's eaters know it tastes really good at the time and then probably like not even half an hour later it just doesn't make you feel that good. Nah.
you're in Italy right now. Like, the, the home of the best, arguably some of the best food in the world. And your highlight meal is McDonald's.
Um, really the, my, I'm actually such a bogan. Um, but anyway, it was delightful. So yes, feelings, going really well.
Oh, well done.
Um, and recovery for you. This was also a low score for you last week.
Recovery. Yes, recovery is pretty good. I'm going to say. I've, I really, um, I was sick of hearing myself say, Oh, I haven't slept very much. Like, so just sleep more, you know, like,
Yeah.
so my main change that I've made, which is actually a bit of a sad change, but I think it was an important circuit breaker is I just slept in a bit more this week and I, it meant that on both Monday and Tuesday, Thursday, I didn't run with friends, um, like this morning is Thursday and I just did a session by myself. I started running at seven. so just like that extra hour of sleep and okay. I actually was going to ask you this.
Did you say the message that knows, our friend Eleanor, our Spanish correspondent sent us on Instagram with the recovery pyramid.
Uh, no, I didn't
Okay. I was hoping you didn't say, cause I wanted, I want to quiz you on it because basically it's a, it's a pyramid. Imagine like the food pyramid, you know, the food pyramid where it's like grains, et cetera, down the bottom. And then whatever
yeah, then at the top is like McDonald's. Yeah.
all the way up to, at the peak, McDonald's. Um, so, like, guess what was at the bottom of the pyramid?
Sleep.
Yeah, sleep, recovery, and downtime. So, I mean, first of all, I was like, Okay, clearly, sleep is easily the most important thing. Guess, guess what the next important thing was?
Uh, food.
Yes. Um, nutrition and hydration. Um, and micro, what are they called? Uh, macros? Macros and Guess what the next one was?
micronutrients. Um, rest.
No, that was the first one.
Oh yeah. Um, I don't know.
You're actually not going to believe it. It's, it's, um, water immersion. Hot, cold, water immersion. Yeah, crazy. So like sauna and a bath. Yeah, I guess sauna and ice bath. And that's, that's above like, um, massage. That's above a whole lot of other things. So that was fascinating. But anyway, I'll share that post on our story so other people can see. It's like a scientific one.
And then wait, what was the top one?
so I think the next one. Number four is compression slash active recovery slash stretching. Sorry. That's like, yeah, obviously, you know what that is. Then after that is massage. So massage is less effective than all those
Oh, wow.
which is crazy. Cause I don't think, I think Roz is in her own
our
she, is, she is down with sleep and downtime. She actively prevents, is it a coincidence that the second you moved countries and weren't seeing Roz, you got injured? I'm not sure.
I
Um,
that's Spanish correspondent, Noz, does do a lot of hot, cold, water therapy. And she doesn't get many massages. And she's never injured.
she's never injured. She has been looking at this recovery pyramid. She's been hiding it from us and she's now
She's been gatekeeping.
She's in gatekeeping. Um, and then after, above massage, it's minimal evidence, e. g. cryo chambers and vibration things. And then above that is fads. So I don't know what you'd put in that category, but just anything that's a fad.
Anything.
Yeah.
nice. And, alright, quickly, what about
Oh yeah,
cross training?
My cross training has been good. I had another session with my PT and it was actually good. like I just asked way more questions about like why we were doing what we're doing and so on. And he answered them all really well and that gave me a bit more confidence. Again, I learned like 10 new exercises. That I had never done before that all felt like really useful. And I was like, I just got to commit to doing it for like three months, do the program, like, see what it's like.
And then I can reevaluate once I've given it a proper go.
Yeah. Yeah. I like that. So, out of ten?
Oh, out of 10? Uh, yeah, eight, nine, nine out of 10. I'm getting it done.
Nice. Nine.
What, have you been getting any more, um, gym in with Dave's help?
Uh, I have not. I, I think, yeah, probably going back to mindset motivation. I feel like that's been lacking a little bit. so I just kind of. Embrace the like resting and not doing a whole heap.
I think as well, I haven't been able to see any sort of Professionals and I mean I've been speaking to my coach and our Spanish correspondent Nos, they're both physios, but because I haven't been able to see anyone I've just been a little bit reluctant to do A whole heap of anything because I don't want to be doing the wrong thing so I Yeah I, I mean, I'd probably give myself a one out of ten, but at the, in the same token, I don't think, I don't think that it's like inherently a bad thing, just
to like have some like full on rest.
That's in fact
I mean, I went e biking.
Yeah, we'll get, we'll take it away. So what was your recovery score?
Uh, one.
No, that's cross training. But what was your recovery score? I
Oh, true. Oh, recovery, ten.
Yeah,
Oh, actually, no, not 10, because I feel like if I had been seeing a physio or something, then I would be doing, like, my recovery would also include, like, active recovery, and, like, been doing a lot more, like, exercises and that kind of thing. Whereas, like, I've just been very sedentary.
Well, I feel like that's what good recovery looks like for you right now.
Yeah, yeah, very true. all right, let's go to our cheeky brain stress question of the week. Um, uh, this as a little reminder is a question that we are popping in our Strava group each week. So if you haven't joined, please join us at Cheeky Run Club. And the winner of whoever we think is the Has the best answer to the question each week gets a little prize from on. So thank you so much to on for ensuring that marathon as always is a team sport.
So our question this week was one of the most painful, frustrating, confounding parts of running that doesn't get enough airtime. We think is blisters. So please share any wisdom on the blister front, how you avoid them, what you do when you feel them coming on and how to manage them when they're alive, firing and thriving.
Um, I think this was a thriving, I think this was a big one for you because I, lucky for the Strava community, um, they didn't see the photos of your blisters, but you've had some pretty awful ones. So do you want to go through who our winner was?
Some shockers. Yes, I absolutely do. So, our cheeky team member of the week this week is Rachel Johnston, who submitted an incredibly comprehensive and helpful answer. I'm just going to call out some highlights from it. So, she starts by saying she's always had awful blisters, like for years, and I feel like that especially. Um, and then she gives basically a combination of different things to consider.
Um, so one of them is socks, and she gives some really practical advice around how to think about what socks to wear, the next thing she thinks about is shoes and how to like slowly introduce new shoes into your rotation, she always talks about using anti chafe and Vaseline, which is also quite a common one. And then, so they're all kind of preventative measures. And then she gives kind of a bunch of measures for like, okay, what do you do if you do feel blister coming on? Immediately do this.
What do you do if you have blisters? This is what you should do. I feel like I could write an entire blog post just off that incredibly instructive, informative advice. But then she finishes. Which I love by saying it's taken a while but I now wear my gross feet as a badge of honor. And I needed to hear that because I have a wedding next weekend and I'm a bridesmaid and I'm wearing open toed shoes and
Oh, oh God.
they're these beautiful strappy shoes and I'm like Oh my god, missing toenails, blisters everywhere. Yeah, so I'm just gonna need to, need to embrace it. So, thank you for that, Rachel.
all right. Thank you so much for coming on this marathon journey with us and for also allowing us a space to chat about all the good parts and the not so flashy parts about running., as always follow along at cheeky run club on Instagram, tick tock Strava community, and please subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts. It is a really great help and thank you on for making this episode of cheeky possible.
And good luck getting back up that hill in the panda.
I'll need it.
You will.
You know what? I think I said to you before, I love it when my feet are really gross and I've got nails falling off because it means I'm running heaps,
Yeah,
which is kind of weird. I love it. I'm like, oh, this is like a token of like, I'm like, I'm so gnarly.
I
reality, it's just my feet are gross. Yeah,