Adam, thank you for coming on the podcast. I'm so glad we could do this in person. listening about your book and you have been doing this very serious book tour and I'm just happy to be a part of it oh no I appreciate you inviting me I know this has been we've been talking about this I feel like for a while yeah but I'm glad to be here How has the feedback been so far? So far, it's still a little bit early on, but the feedback is trickling in as far as...
It's causing people to think about how they parent, talk about their trauma, their experience. So, so far it's been good.
much negative feedback just yet. I like to count people who actually read the book, and you can always tell. But no, a lot of people either see themselves in my story or know someone who's something similar or you know sometimes they're like i'm so sorry you went through that you know so they're very empathetic but i think the point is pretty clear throughout the book that i'm talking about what's happening around
And I think that's why when people do start to read it, they completely understand. Even from the excerpts, I've been very fortunate to have an excerpt in the New York Post, and I had people say, once I saw that excerpt, I knew I had to get your book. because they understood my point that how we treat our children.
is a reflection of what's happening in our society, right? So if we treat them terribly, and we can't be shocked when they become, in their late teens or adults, where they're dysfunctional, because they came from a dysfunctional home. And I'm just seeing that pattern over and over and over. throughout my life and even for the ones in the extreme case
being criminals and things of that nature. There are obviously people like myself who were more self-harming, going through depression, thinking about killing themselves. where do you think our I guess intolerance for children or just like distaste or inconvenience started to happen because
To me, it's always kind of surprising with how rude people are if you bring your kids out anywhere. Even if they're well-behaved, they're like, oh, what's this kid doing here? This is inconvenient. Even if they're making the smallest amount of noise. something as trivial as and it's not if you're a parent but what seems trivial like the toilet seats right like we don't live in a kid-friendly society they can't reach any toilet seat probably till they're what like nine eight nine years old
It's too tall. The sinks are too tall. We don't have a space that's welcoming to them. We were talking about Montessori a little bit earlier. That's one of the really big elements too. The space is crafted for kids, so the sinks are their level, the toilets are their level, like the paper, like everything is like, oh, you're welcome.
and as a little walking throughout the world or as a parent you feel and you are reminded all the time and probably especially as a father I mean it's very new if you find a restroom that has a changing table right and then we'll get on dads for being like shit dads but like we as a society are not really expecting them to father either so um i guess where do you think that shift happened because it hasn't been that way we used to be very pro-family very pro-kid like
more like Europe where we had intergenerational dynamics, whether you were at a, you know, a cafe or a restaurant, like it was, that was normal. America doesn't seem to feel that way. You know, that's a good point as far as like, We say society, it was a very broad term, but you're talking about like, hey, when I go to these places, they don't cater to family.
People get annoyed. As a matter of fact, you maybe think about, I remember I was coming back from, I can't remember, from Turkey or something like that. the states and this woman had a very young child and they were sitting next to her. And I guess the child was like talking or, you know, being a kid. And there was a lady that was in front of her and I guess she like turned around and said,
And I just only overheard the mom saying, listen, cut me some slack. She's a baby. But I just thought to myself, Well, yeah, this is what kids do. So it's like when people complain, oh, the crying baby, what do you think, baby? do like they're on a loud machine making lots of noises hurting their ears hurting their ears and all this other stuff yeah they're gonna cry um they're basically gonna cry or sleep it's like one or the other and and so like
Yes, I do think that there are aspects of our society that's become less tolerant to children and families. But as far as when it started, I think that I'm more so talking about individualism to the detriment of children. So we're looking at situations where... The adults are making all the choices. based off of what they want. Chasing something and just dragging the kids along. And I'm also seeing a lot of adults doing that personally and this is something I want to write more about.
they're operating off of fear, right? They're operating off of, let's say they grew up in a home where their father was at least emotionally abusive, and their mother was very, you know, just like... and she didn't have her voice. You grow up as a young woman, you see that, you're like, I don't want to be in a circumstance where I have to deal with a man who's like that. And independence sounds like freedom.
you know for that person and but they're operating off a fear of repeating what they saw their mother So now they've become so vigilant as far as avoiding that that all they think about is themselves and their circumstance and every man is competing against the image of their father. So I do think that it's not just selfishness. It's not just one day they woke up and they're making all these choices by themselves.
I do think that we have a generation or two who are operating off of what they saw at home and their fear of being either stuck repeating what their parents went through. Choosing themselves over a family or making choices off of what they want rather than being bound by Societal expectations as far as what a family looks like they have to remix all this stuff because Family sounds like a trap
Yeah, it's interesting when you are actively avoiding something to that level and you think that you've escaped the control of it, it still is. It's the other side of the same coin. So instead of... you know accidentally or on purpose falling into that like that thing is still controlling you it's just like making you create these other behaviors and you think that you're exercising free will but all you're really doing it's the same like
um reflex that you would have otherwise so it's you're not really breaking any cycle if anything it's like the same thing just the inverse of it um and i think that's a that is a lot of women i mean that was definitely my story for a very long time My mom was with a lot of really bad men. My dad was a very bad man.
and I saw what that did to her and what that did to us, and I did the same thing. I was like, I will never be in a position where I'm vulnerable or incapable of leaving if I have to leave. And while I still think that's important for a lot of women because the stories are horrific of women that are in really bad situations.
they cannot leave right like they're like hiding gift cards it's so bad so i think like if you want to work it is good to have two incomes but um to look at every relationship as it's going to fall apart no matter what every man is bad no matter what and you create these like these um fortresses between you and love and you and family that you're actually doing yourself like a huge disservice and you're missing out on so much of life like as soon as you have a kid you're like
This is what love is. And this is the thing I was so terrified of. And this is the whole reason. This is why you do everything. Yeah, and that's, and actually, I didn't even know your story, and so I probably resonated with you, like, yep, that's exactly it. Your story is not uncommon.
It's a very familiar circumstance for a lot of women, and I'm probably friends with more women than men, at least throughout my life. So I listen to them, and I listen to how they operate, and I actually watch how they operate. And then the more you start learning about psychology, you just start to read people. And it's like the number one thing. It's like, how was your childhood? You know, I just ask questions like,
What's your deal with your father? And then from there, you start learning everything. there or he acted this particular way and then you're like oh makes sense now mm-hmm and the way I kind of see things as far as human beings go is that we are creatures of And so if repeatedly a man let you down, then your expectation is that men will let you down. And your parents are supposed to be a representation of...
One, the same-sex parent is the most important parent. And so your mother is supposed to model how a woman behaves, right? Consciously or... consciously or you know just by subconsciously But your father is supposed to model how a man treats a woman. And so that's why you'll see a lot of women who maybe came from an abusive home.
But they get into relationships with men, and one guy is abusive, then the next guy. And you're like, what are the odds that one woman keeps having relationships with abusive men? And it's because... think I can't remember who said this and it might have been dr. Drew but like you become attracted to the thing that you hate But it's familiar, right? So that guy, let's say someone like myself, I'm not abusive.
I carry myself differently. That's not attractive. Oh, he's nice. Too nice. He's healed. I don't want that. But the guy who carries himself, like maybe he's the pretty ball. Right. He's the flashy guy. That's like, oh, yes. But that's actually the guy you want to stay away from. You know, if your goal is to reduce the likeness of being and some tumultuous. or you want children, or you want a long-term thing. So it just becomes this familiar pathway for them. And it's almost like...
you create the outcome that you fear the most by keep jumping into these things. So then they also become extremely jaded, which is understandable because every guy you get with is abusive. So then men are the... And it actually happens the other way around too. You know, I see a lot of guys who are attracted to some of the Manosphere cons. feel that exact same way.
You know, my ex-girlfriend was like this, or I got married, and, you know, I gave her my all, and she slept with someone. But then you start digging through their stories like, oh, she was a stripper. Oh, she was at very high risk. Oh, she came from an abusive... Like, there's like, you know, it's not to say if they come from that scenario, they.
You shouldn't ever marry that person, but they need to heal. So you need to see that healing process. If they don't, they're going to repeat this destructive behavior most often. Or I think a big thing that it took me a long time to learn as a young man, respect is really, really big. when it comes to women women if you want some if a woman wants to stay with a guy long term she has to respect you as soon as she doesn't respect you she's basically planning her
Because she can't trust you. She doesn't respect you. She can't trust you. And you're not viable in the long term. And I see a lot of guys getting with women who don't respect you know the guys who are like oh just get your money up and flash your money well guess what women who respect you
won't chase your dollar. I know broke guys who can't keep women off of them. Why? Because they carry themselves in a particular way, or maybe they have potential, or things of that nature, but they don't go around flashing money. They don't live a particular lifestyle. They don't make these dollar amount promises and stuff like that.
But, you know, they understand that you have to get women's respect. And one of those things is you don't try to chase women. You know, you chase them or you're going to end up with the wrong type. Yeah, there's so many ways I want to go from that. One of them was I absolutely believe in.
like your nervous system is has a different homeostasis like everyone is is tuned up differently so if you come from like a really abusive childhood or like a turbulent childhood like what you were saying about kind of like chaos being safety like like that miswiring is how you're going to people and situations so you'll be constantly seeking that out because that's your homeostasis so if you are
if you are in an unhealed place or like that's the type of partners you're attracting and then you have this kind of confirmation bias like all women are this way like you see that a lot in the red pill community um and you're what you were saying like it's not to not date these women but They need to be healed. And I don't know if you saw this Tucker Carlson interview. I think it was from like maybe six or eight months ago.
on the sean ryan show and he was talking about find a girl that loves her dad because it is just an easier relationship and i watched that clip so many times because I mean, it resonated with me so powerfully because that was my story. Like, I was very hard. for a very long time because when it's like the last thing to discover water is a fish, you have no idea because I've been surrounded by chaos.
for so long that I didn't realize how dysfunctional I was and how dysfunctional the people in my life were because that was what my nervous system said was safe and normal and recognized.
you know, my neutral. And then I just like, it was like around maybe 24 or 25 where I just had this aha moment where I was like, I can either become the thing that I've always said I didn't want to be, right, like just kind of be a victim of my circumstances, or I can put in like all of the work and all of the effort to undo. Basically all of my programming up until that point and like be the person that I can be and should be and
I struggled with fertility for a while. I think like there's a lot that goes into that as well like your body like holding on to things and it was like you know a couple weeks after this really intensive like biofeedback training that I did that I got pregnant and I mean it was it was it was magical but I guess where I'm going with that.
like how do you go from being a victim of your circumstances and this is kind of what someone asked you online that they wanted to know to creating purpose out of that and to I don't know, like living a more powerful perspective than like, you know, my dad left so, my mom was, you know, on the move so, right? And like creating purpose out of your scenario.
We mentioned the healing part. I think that's really important. But the other part is truth. You have to be honest with One of the things I tried doing, well I think I accomplished with this book, was being very open and honest about how I felt, how I saw things, and my criticisms, and so much so that like...
After the book was released my mom read it for the first time or started reading it and I could tell there were parts that was very obvious there were parts that hurt her but not because like i'm insulting my mother it's a parental guilt like she one she didn't know i was going through all these different things and I had to explain to her that I don't harbor resentment or anything like that towards her I love my mother very much
This is about using my story to try and help people, right? And not all pain is purposeless. It's just how you look at it. So the way I look at it is I went through these circumstances. So I'm turning this into a strength of mine because I can talk about it. A lot of people can't talk about it without... feeling too emotional or crying or whatever, but I can talk about it without feeling emotionally unstable and I can talk about it in a very genuine way.
where it doesn't harm me. I'm not emotionally scarred by talking about painful things from my childhood. But by doing that, you're encouraging other people to also take that path, and that's a path of healing. So I guess to kind of sort of answer your question as far as... You have to be able to be honest about how you feel and what you're going through.
sometimes you mentioned like you didn't know you were in a chaotic world sometimes you have to expand your world right you have to get around people who are not You know, one of the biggest things I think it was Dave Chappelle, who said he didn't realize he was poor until he went over to a white family's house. You know, he looked in their fridge and was like, man, they got all foods in here.
It's one of those things, you expand your world, you're like, oh man, I'm being deprived, or oh, that looks nice. The way that the mother and the father treat each other, or that the father is here, and he's helpful, it's like, oh damn, I don't have. And for me as a kid, that was like going to Scouts. I was in Boy Scouts, and I did baseball when I was much younger. And noticing, like, all the families are in the stands.
you know my mom sometimes come out but she worked a lot but my father was never there you know and the fathers were either on the team or in the stands you know they're one or the other and i'm just like It's very obvious that one kid sticks out here and that's me. On top of many of those times I'm like the only black kid that's there.
It's something that really sucked out, especially like in Scouts, you know, I would show up at Scouts, it was father, son, and I was the only one who didn't have a father. So, you know, you're always the odd man out, but you're watching and you're saying, like, that looks better than what I have. Yeah. I remember when I first saw, I think it was maybe like the back part of your book when we first started talking, like how much I resonated with.
people are gonna be like what like how do you guys have the same story but there were so many similarities and I remember there being like daddy daughter dances and I'd be like one of the only girls that couldn't go and like like you feel you feel like an outsider you feel like there's something wrong with you because i think that's what kids do because they're so generous and charitable like the last thing that they do is they
It's always, like, there's something wrong with me. I'm not lovable. Like, how can I fix this? And for a little, that carries on into adulthood, right? Like, that becomes your inner dialogue of, like, I'm broken. I'm not good. whatever the case might be. So it's so important. that how like there's this quote that I repeat all the time and some more is caught than taught and it's like how you behave in front of your kid or how you're not showing up are the things that are going to stick and
I don't know why there seems to be such an epidemic of fatherlessness. I understand that there's a massively different biological driver from mother to father so that's why it's probably more unusual for a man a woman to abandon her kid because like we are tethered to those littles um in a way that you guys aren't but i would imagine that there is still some kind of urge to like protect and provide and show up
even as the father, you know, even though you didn't incubate this baby. So I don't understand, like I physically cannot comprehend a baby. your child which is what my dad did um and that you don't think about them every day or you don't try to show up or be a better person like eventually come back in so like where it to me what i see is society used to hold men accountable right like shotgun weddings used to happen a lot like there wasn't
um a lack of teen pregnancy we just like held those young men accountable so if you did this you now need to do the right thing step up be a man and now you you know you need to make a family so you had like a community that was holding men standard and it seems like that community is gone probably a lot of its technology like we're so fragmented everywhere that we don't feel
a sense of duty to each other or like any kind of relationship so I think that's probably part of it and then like you were saying like almost this intense selfishness that a lot of people are demonstrating which is massive independence and totally abandoning community and service and contribution. Yes. You said a lot, so I'm sorry. But no, I agree with what you're, and I understand what you're saying.
So as far as how a guy can abandon his children, like you said, the child is growing inside a woman's body, so there's a natural bonding that's happening. For men, they have to be in contact with their kids. They literally have to start from scratch as far as developing a bond, which is why it's important for that first time you're holding your...
Or you might see videos online of the guys taking off the shirt and doing skin-to-skin. I learned... very early on when it came to raising my son well first thing because I grew up without my father I knew that I just didn't want to be my And I didn't know exactly how to be a father because I didn't have any sort of demonstration. But I just knew that I wanted to try and do the best I possibly could to raise my son.
You know, when he was born, eventually his mother went back to work. The first... nine ten months I would work overnight I think it was from like ten to six in the morning something like that I'd leave there go to his mother's house Kind of doze off on the couch waiting for his mother to finish. I take my son.
And then I would go back to my house and I would watch him all day. She'd get off of work, I don't know, 5.30 or so, and I would drop off my son. I'd go back home and I'd get maybe like three hours of sleep, if that. But that was the best time because I got to raise my son in like critical stage of his life and watch him grow. This was back before like everyone had.
Everyone took pictures every day and stuff like that. So I would take these pictures like every other month and watch them grow like one month three months And I got to feed him. I got to play with him. When he took a nap, I took a nap. Like, I got to do all that stuff and really grew like a bond. And I also noticed, and I think I found out that when men are highly active with young children, there are estrogen.
Increases so they become more sensitive because they're dealing with children And so that's what happened for me and since since my son was born like if I see someone crying I just, I cannot help it. And I'm like, all right, I gotta look away. So I've become more sensitive because of my son. it was necessary for that to happen. And I really cultivated a really good relationship with my son.
Which I kind of talk about within the book that after that first year, you know, while I'm going through that cycle, I'm exhausted. I'm at a dead end job. To make a sort of long story short, it sounded like I had an opportunity to learn another trait. And so it required me moving to Nashville. And I didn't know how long I was going to be there for, but I was like, you know what? It's a risk, but I wanted to try and do it. It didn't work out.
And it was immediately that I found out it didn't work out. But I moved my entire life to Nashville, and now I'm away from my son. And the amount of guilt that I had being away from my son, I'm like, I'm being my father. And I wasn't trying to. I'm actually doing this because of my son. I'm taking these risks. And I tried to get his mother to come out, but I would go every month. I would drive from Nashville to New Jersey.
And stay there for like three or four days to see my son sometimes twice a month I was kind of broke so I couldn't do it too often But I've made sure like I always came back to see my son. He would see me and we have a good time But I was only out there for about a year, and then I came back and I've been together ever since. But it's that. It was so depressing being away from my son because I developed such a bond.
um raising him taking care of him seeing him every single day and it was the best still to this day the best time of my life even though it was the most exhausting time not because of my son because i just was sleeping Yeah, that's totally natural. So do you think... I was talking to someone about paternity leave and maternity leave and there's a lot of men especially that are very dismissive of it.
well, what am I going to do? The baby only wants the mom, or they'll really downplay the need of a dad in those early months. Like, are you pro paternity leave for men? Like, do you think that that's necessary? And then what is your take on the men that kind of actively avoid their kids until they're like walking and talking? Because that's very common and normal.
I think they're underestimating how important they are in their kid's life. I'm going to pick things up at a certain point when it comes to race. like they need to know that you're there and especially in the critical years and just like what i was saying in the beginning Human beings are about repetition, right? So let's say you disappear for three years and you show up. Where's that repetitious cycle for the first three years of their life of seeing you? So now you're starting from scratch.
and maybe that works and maybe it doesn't. Or if you're constantly in and out and you're not really present, you're not developing much of anything. And so that pattern of you not being there becomes far more familiar than your attempts when you finally decide to come around. So it's from the very beginning. So I do think that if you're able to and you have paternity leave, take it. Get close to your kids. Do stuff with your kids. Play with your kids.
I couldn't wait till I could tickle my son. That was the only thing I was waiting for. I'm trying to remember how old he was. when he was entering like two months or something like that, where I could tickle him and he would giggle. That's all I was waiting for. So that was always like my go-to. I could tickle him, he would smile, he would giggle. He was a happy baby. All of his pictures of him. And even to this day, he's a happy kid. So, yeah, don't downplay your impact on your kids. Yeah.
To me, it's just a justification to live the life that you want to live. So there seems to be this new pop culture movement of a modern-day harem. So these, you know, these very prominent and like, quote, powerful men, wealthy men. And they will brag about a real man doesn't get married to one woman. He'll spread his seed and they'll have all of these kids.
Someone was even saying it costs like 10 bucks a day or 10 bucks a month to raise a kid. So you can have as many as you want. First of all, I'd love to know how you're spending 10 bucks a month on a kid. How are you doing that math? Because it's not adding up to me. But essentially that's the woman's role and it's the man's role. conquer and spread the seed and I'm like
And you wonder why society is so dysfunctional. Young boys need to see their dad. There needs to be that relationship. And if it's not their dad, then another respectable masculine role. be there but they need to see like a good example of what a man is they can't just be raised by women because that's never going to work out especially for young boys right yeah the the thing that i hate the most is the free pass that we'd give wealthy men who have with multiple women.
And it always turns into, well, they can afford. And I was like, but that's not what your child doesn't know you're a millionaire. They don't, their concept of money doesn't develop until maybe in their teenage years where they really start to understand until then.
It's just stuff. And maybe when they get to a certain point they know that it takes money to buy stuff. But their concept of money isn't there. Which means that what's important to kids is not your money. What's important to them is your time. Do you care about them? Are you checking up on them? Are you teaching them? I've talked to so many people who grew up in two-parent homes, but it might as well have been a single-parent home because their fathers didn't teach them anything.
Their fathers are like, are you alive? Okay. And they just kept it moving. But they entered the adult world not knowing how to do a lot of essential things. So, you know, the idea that you just pay for kids as kids are just these itemized things that you just put on some sort of financial sheet, you know.
I think that is a terrible approach when it comes to raising a family. But these men aren't talking about raising a family. These men, and you listen to the words they use, is procreating, right? They're not talking about raising a family. They're saying making children. Which any idiot can do that. Right, a cow does that. Right. But, yeah, especially the wealthy guys. I call them pookies. They're wealthy pookies, right? If this guy was on Maury,
He's got 11 kids with four baby mamas. Like, you'd be like, this guy ain't worth shit. He's pooky, and of course he can't be for all his kids. But he's a millionaire, and all of a sudden he's okay. He's perfectly fine. And that's because the idea of a father has been reduced to being a pay pick.
As long as you can quote unquote afford children, then it's okay what you do. Meanwhile, you have kids in LA, you have kids in Miami, you have kids in New York, Texas, and you're like, no, but he's rich. He can afford these kids. But you see so often, like a great example are MBA.
because they're always on the road and they meet women from all over the place and they get kids all over the place with different women and their kids grow up to despise their father and their father could be paying these women millions of dollars to raise But they despise their father. Why? Because he was not there. That's why the... It don't matter that they got the latest and greatest whatever. Guess what? They'll forget about that stuff in a year.
But they know when they call their dad, their dad doesn't pick up. Or when they needed their father, their father wasn't there. These are the things that really matter to them. But I also find that when it comes to the manosphere, and I'm someone who... So I'm not talking from the outside. There's a lot of useful things, you know, as far as getting your money right.
getting into the gym. These are things that are general good advice and I realized that the part of Manosphere that is really beneficial is basically stuff your father should have told you. And that's when I was like, oh, my father never told me this because he wasn't there. And these are the things that really helped me. So the Manosphere, in some ways, helped me.
But then I've seen over time where it's gotten perverted, right? It's gotten reduced to you being simply an economic earner and the women are just objects to show off your success. and You know, I don't see women in that light. I have plenty of female friends. I'm married and my wife is my friend and I value her opinion and I value her as a human being. And same with my mother. I can't look at women as simply just objects.
But I think a lot of these guys are coming from a place rejection and are coming from a place of being avoidant because they're afraid of being vulnerable. For sure, because if you can just say women are supposed to be submissive and quiet and just like this thing that I use, well, then you're not allowing them access to the real you, so you can't ever be criticized, hurt, or abandoned, essentially. I used to kind of say the same.
there was a lot of beneficial content and you know most of it is good and This 10% that's a problem. But I do wonder if that's not intentional, right? Just like a predator is going to, like, that's what makes a predator dangerous is they're attractive and they lure you in and you want, like, even if you're talking about a human, right, their care is massive.
So everything is good except for that little part that's dangerous, and it's intentionally designed that way. And I think it's probably the same way with the Manosphere content, because if all of it was super extreme and hateful and problematic... It's going to attract a much smaller group of people, but the other one can justify it. They're like, oh, they gave me good financial advice.
I think that's the most dangerous thing about it, you know what I mean? Honestly, is because it can come, because a lot of people defended some of the most prominent voices for a long time because they're like, but look at all of this other good stuff.
And the solution isn't to like shut these people down unless they're doing anything illegal. It's to like present better examples of masculinity. And unfortunately, because of our little reptile brain, we don't reward that behavior because it's not as like... to watch right like Lex Friedman is a great example of a masculine man like he's not traditional you know machismo or whatever but like yeah he does he's a black belt I think he's a very intelligent he has a wildly successful podcast
like you could watch that but he's not triggering people and he's not poking the bear so like his content isn't all over acts like some other people so yeah it's like how do we um how do we like begin to rewire even just our what our natural inclination is to what we're consuming because i think that's a huge part of how we show up in day-to-day life you have to
remind yourself that like the real world is not the internet and that's really hard for some people so if you're surrounding yourself with toxic content or you think that It's normal to not show up as a dad and you see these really successful men that are doing it. You're like, oh, well, if he's doing it, I can do it. So how do you start?
um to change like your diet essentially like your entertainment diet well the first thing i would say and i say this as someone who's part of the media is that much of the media maybe most of it is twofold one is the propaganda Some propaganda is good, some of it isn't. If I make a bunch of content that is geared towards happy, healthy families, guess what? I'm making propaganda that is beneficial for you.
If I'm making propaganda that is highly skewed when it comes to things that are bad, which is most of the content. It is not feel good. It is see this is a confirmation bias. See how terrible men are. See how terrible women are. See you can't get with these relationships. When you start doing that, the second part is that it's to confirm your body.
Someone who grew up in a happy and healthy household, in a happy and healthy marriage, when they look at that content, it doesn't phase like it doesn't do anything for them more often because they're like my life You know, I'm married to a wonderful woman who doesn't act like anything like this. So clearly, some women are like this. But from my life, I've seen that most women are.
So, okay, if I watch it, I don't skew my perception because my lived experience is far more influential than what I see here. I think a lot of people confuse that. They think that the online world is tricking people into believing that all women are whores and blah blah blah blah. What it's actually doing is confirming their bias. So if you're a man who's been unsuccessful with women, it's confirming your bias and giving you the reason. It's not you. It's not that you haven't cut your hair.
you're not groomed and you know you look terrible you have no dress you know so no sort of style you haven't learned how to attract women you're not confident it's not you it's the women It's the women's fault. They're too picky, right? So it becomes... something that fosters the victim mentality. The victim mentality says it is someone else. It is the external as to why your life has turned out the way it has turned out. It's never the internal. You're fine.
Right? It's them. And so then what happens is they consume content that validates that one, they're the victim, and two, they're not the problem. It's someone else that's the problem. Women have changed. The men are just the same. both men and women have change some ways but many of things are still the same the difference between now and let's say 25 years ago is that we don't have a 24-7 propaganda machine aimed at you know tricking not tricking us but convincing us
that what is wrong with us is not actually what's wrong with us. It's someone else's fault. And it's not in our pockets 24-7 like it is now 25 years ago. So I do think that the amount of propaganda that we're being fed to make us angry, resentful, and to point our finger at somebody else and to not look at what we're capable of doing or how we can improve ourselves. It's so constant and it's so detrimental and it stops the progress for a lot of guys. If I was to say like one quick thing.
So if the manosphere could be extremely beneficial, let's say it kept much of its beliefs, right? This red pill. then it should tell men how to navigate being in a happy and healthy relationship and avoid the type of women that they're supposedly warning. so yes you don't date let's say an only fans girl okay all right well how do i find a happy and healthy woman they negate that part they just tell you what to stay away from
And it's like, well, how do I find a happy and healthy? If that's the bad version, how do I find a good version? And they leave that. kind of open almost to imply that there is no good version and so guess what you're just gonna have to um
If they're all bad, well, you're a guy, you want to have sex, then you have to learn how to bang them and leave them and be avoidant and all this other stuff because you still want to get your rocks off. So, because these women don't exist. They're all whores. They're all this or all that.
And I think that's the part that's the disconnect. Yeah, what I see is it's an oversimplification of how to have a happy life and not have any consequences, make it as easy as possible for you, don't get hurt, don't overinvest, don't lose your money, all of these things, right?
very isolationist protective mechanism that everyone's doing so it's immediately like she's awful if she has an only fans and she's good if she goes to church it's like well i've met great only fans women and i've met terrible churchgoers so how about like we do the work and you assess the person in front of you but like no one wants to do that
Everything has to be automated, and our brains are pretty lazy. It takes up a lot of calories to do any kind of thinking or categorizing, so we want to make it as simple as possible so we're attracted to those traps, essentially. But that's part of being human is you have to do the work in everything that you do because everything good is on the other side of that struggle. i just see everything everything is so easily automated and it's gonna sound like these aren't connected but
Like you can order your food. You can hire someone to do your dishes. You can... Throw your kid into daycare. before you know it everything is automated to death and you're lacking purpose but hey your life is so easy
You don't have to lift a finger. You don't even have to raise your own kid if you don't want to. And then you find that you're exhausted. And you're like, why am I exhausted? I'm not doing anything. I'm depressed. Why am I depressed? Everything's taken care of. And it's because you took away all of the struggle.
And I would say to these people, the thing that you're avoiding is the thing that you should actually be running towards, right? Like you don't want to... engage with uh raising your child because let's talk about like the men being pay pigs right like they have been trained for so many years probably at least the last i would say 50 to 70 that if you are a man your only job your only value is if you can bring home a paycheck
I don't care about how you feel. I don't care if you're risking your life when you go out there to provide for the family. I don't care if you're exhausted or you feel lonely or you don't feel respected or appreciated. I don't care as long as you have a paycheck. And that has trickled down to the men now who...
maybe aren't necessarily doing the same kind of work as their fathers before them, but that detachment is still there because we've told them it doesn't matter. And you see the numbers of men that are taking their own lives. that are homeless, that are addicted, and men are clearly struggling, and then we write them off as these deadbeat dads, but I think...
It's so much more complicated than that. It's not that men don't want to be a good dad. It's not that men don't want to be good husbands or partners or whatever it is. It's like we as society have told them they don't matter for so long that they've believed it.
where is that like where is that solution i don't think it's red pill because like we have been talking about like you have to be so caught like cautious of people that are pitting the sexes against each other and then don't offer a solution right if you're watching someone's content they're like um you know here are the problems i'm presenting but here is a solution that isn't like all men are bad or all women are bad maybe that's a good person to listen to but
like how do you bridge that gap because there are so many women that think that like all dads are deadbeats and there are so many men that think all women are whores and it seems Almost like evil and intentional that like there's some big machine that is trying to make us hate each other for some reason So how do we find each other again? And like welcome the struggle and welcome the work because to me that's the whole point of life Well, the reason is actually simple.
conflict is profitable. Whether it's between the sexes, between political parties, religious factions, it's profitable, right? We are wired to look at the car crash. right we're not wired to see the good deed that is over here that's that's not as attractive as the car crash right so That's why we have trouble staying away from stuff like that is because It's built within us to be very mindful of negative things around us.
And so if women have changed and they've become this, I need to be very vigilant about it too. Especially if it's something that I already believe, but maybe it's worse. Oh my god. I knew it was bad, but I knew it was this bad and it's just Content after content after content, but you if you look hard enough you'll find anything right I can if I wanted to be a guy who just made nothing but negative content about bad women I could do that every single day because bad people Um...
But to, your question was like... Bridging the gap, like not falling into the trap of blaming each other and... Yeah, and not avoiding the work. Okay. So what I've found, and I'm saying this as someone who has spent many of years struggling in various ways, confidence, self image. depression, all these different areas of my life. Economically, you know, when I was I'd move back home, you know, so there's been many parts of my life where I'm struggling and I'm behind a lot of other men.
So what I realized... Ross is so loud. I was trying to pretend. What I realized was that If I look at myself first, then I have control over that. And if I am lacking in an area, then I say, okay, what could I have done differently? And maybe there are some things that you have no control over, but there's a lot in your life that you do have control over. And if I just go around pointing the finger at everybody else, well, they're not going to change for me to benefit.
It's just like saying, well, until the government does this, then nothing else matters. It was like, well, good luck with that. You're going to be waiting a long time, if not forever. Because the government's not going to change and improve your life. You have to improve your life. You have to do the things that are necessary for you.
You know, you are part of an audience of one and you have to cater to yourself and figure out how can I improve in whatever area I'm lacking. The other thing, and I don't think this is emphasized enough when it comes to relationships, The better you become as an individual, the better of a partner that you attract. And that was an area where when I was lacking in self-esteem, a bit chaotic,
very needy, right, because I was afraid of rejection, you know, a little bit clingy. When I was going through all that, I got just as chaotic women in tumultuous relationships. who are dealing with their own stuff too and it's because well i accepted that just like they accepted a tumultuous low confidence guy right it's one and one Whatever you feel that you deserve is what you accept.
And so if, let's say, some homeless guy who's a drug addict came to you and was like, baby, let's date, you would say no. You would not accept. But if you did accept that, well, you cannot be surprised that he's shooting up in your bathroom. Correct. This is what you accepted. Right. And that's what you felt that you deserved as well.
And so when you improve yourself, not just financially, but when you improve yourself as far as how you carry yourself, your integrity, your principles, your confidence especially, you become more respectable. by default based off of how you carry yourself and women are attracted
So you don't have to chase them, right? You'll run into women and they'll like you because of your demeanor, how you carry yourself, how you treat them. Are you respectful? You don't have to be a quote-unquote simp, right? You're just respectful. Are you honest? And so by doing that, that's when I ran into my wife.
And I kept improving because, and this is another thing that they don't really talk about, women also help to improve men and vice versa. My wife has helped to... support me emotionally, financially, in different areas, even doing stuff like this. I always thought like, oh, well, I'll just do it as a part-time thing. She's like, no, try and go full-time. I got your back. Amazing. Right. And same for her. When she was at a particular job,
I think in her previous relationship, he would have been like, no, don't leave. And I'd be like, no. You can do better. You want to go somewhere else? Here's how you do it. She's like, oh, I'm applying. I'm like, how often are you applying? Oh, you know, once a week. I was like, you got to apply like you ain't got no job. And when she found the job, she was like, what do you think? Should I accept it? And I'm like, yeah, accept it.
You know, oh, this contract, I don't know. It's like, no, no, no, this is different. Accept it. What happens? She's excelling. She gets offered a full-time employment. Great benefits. All these other stuff. Because I gave her confidence. And every time she struggled emotionally. I was like, cut the shit. You deserve this. You earned this. And I had to reinforce these things with her.
And she appreciates that. And I'm like, all right, you're thanking me too much. But she's always thanking me for being there for her. And I tell her the same thing. I write about it. If it wasn't for my wife, I wouldn't have been as successful. I probably wouldn't have done a lot of things because of my wife.
supporting me and in the areas where i was like you know i might give it a shot or should i do it um she was like no go for it you know and that's that's the type of relationship that you do want to have as a man a woman who supports you no matter what and what i hear is a lot of fear a lot of well
If I lose my job, she's going to leave. That's fear-based. You don't think you'll find another job? Why do you feel that way? And often you start digging, and it stems from somewhere else, a previous relationship. Well, that's what their mother did with their father. It's coming from somewhere else and it shows a lack of belief in themselves. So how did you get from a place where you were depressed or had thought about taking your own life?
to um and like finding these relationships that were kind of like demonstrating your lack of self-worth to saying like I deserve better so was there a piece of imposter syndrome was there a little bit of like fake it till you make it can you walk us through that process for you so
my life is a little bit complicated i'll do like uh one significant part of my life i had like a really sort of fast relationship with this one woman my ex-girlfriend um We started a relationship, we dated, and after, I think it was like four months, you know she was traveling a little bit you know we're in the same state but she was traveling a little bit to see me and and and i was like you know what let's just get our own place we got our own place
After a few months, things started falling apart. I think we were together, I don't know, a year and two, three months or something. But I had put, like, everything into it as far as I only hung out with her and her family. You know, we did what they wanted to do. And I was fine with it, but I only did what they wanted.
And everything revolved around my relationship. And when that was gone, I was left with nothing. And I was like, I don't even know what I like anymore. I don't know any of this stuff. I quite literally had to, for like a week, really think about like, what do I want to do? Maybe there are things that I always wanted to do, but I didn't do. So the first thing, because she wanted me to stay at a job that I was at, the first thing I did, I left that.
and got a higher paying job just like that i think it was making nine thousand dollars more and just boom right away um And so I was like, okay, I'm making more money. It's like, but what else did I want to do? And I wanted to learn German. So I started learning online, and then I got a tutor. A tutor became a friend of mine, and long story short, my son is friends with her sons now, and they go and hang out.
So I got a tutor, and I started learning German. And I was like, well, I always wanted to go to Europe. Like, I've never been to Europe. So that same year, I went to Prague around my birthday. like a month and a half later I did Berlin, Amsterdam, London and Paris. But I went by myself, which initially I was supposed to go with a friend of mine who backed out.
good for you for going anyways then yeah I was like I'm still going yeah now the reason I bring up that that trip is because when I came back I felt different I felt different because Not because I was just relaxed, but because I felt at peace. And what I realized was I had a lot of social anxiety, and that was really holding me. I would tend to say no more than yes because I never did it before. I've never been there. Even in something simple as going to a restaurant.
I've never been to this restaurant, I don't know, what's the parking like? I was very much so anxious about just about everything. And by going to a country I've never been to before, I don't know anybody or anything like that. And after the first day, it was just like, oh, I can do this. And for the first time in my life, I really started trusting my instincts.
And the way I see instincts is it's God-given. And every time that I listen to my instinct, things work out. When I go against it, it didn't work. And I would start to listen to myself when it came to anything. People I want to associate with, restaurants I want to go to, cities I want to go to. And if it felt right, that's what I did. And that's how I've treated everything since.
But getting rid of that social anxiety, being so scared and fearful, I also realized how much that affected my past relationships. So by getting rid of that, that was like, my social anxiety was like 95%.
wow after that trip and then from there i was attracted to the unknown so then i was like well i'm going back to europe and i'm going to a place i've never been before and i'm choosing so i started twice a year until the pandemic i was Going to Europe and sometimes I'll go to the same places on repeat because I would meet people
and I became friends. One particular group I've been to, Lisbon, met some Germans there, and I started speaking German with them, and they were like, oh my God, he's my German. And then the next trip, I was like, well, I'm coming to Berlin. they were back in Germany so they met up with me in Berlin and we It was the first time we went to a strip club and got drunk with some Germans. So it was just like all these things.
Three years prior, I would have never done it. I was a straight edge. I never drank. I stayed away from that stuff because I was afraid. And I'm not advocating for people to go to strip clubs. But I'm just saying that... I became far more open to life. I started living for the first time.
And I started saying yes to things. And I started developing this confidence and not being worried. And so now I'm to the point where I'm just not worried at all. And if it wasn't for doing all those steps... and it takes years to kind of master it But doing all those steps allowed for me to do the things I'm doing today, to speak publicly like how we're speaking right now and not be afraid to write for the New York Post and know that people are going to criticize it or they'll love it.
to speak in front of an audience of, let's say, 600 people, which was like my first speaking gig. Wow. And feeling nervous at first. And the very first thing is like, I apologize if I'm a little bit nervous. And they clapped and everything. Did my piece, and I got a standing ovation. Matter of fact, James Lindsay was there. Oh, I love James. Yeah. And James was like, this was your first time? I'm like, yeah. She was like, you did really well. You got a standing ovation.
so it's that type of thing where just having confidence in yourself not arrogance right but just feeling confident like i got this i can do this and that type of thing is so attractive Recently I spoke at a non-profit function and
seeing people on the brink of crying because I'm talking to them about my story and my wife is standing right there and she's like, I'm so proud of you. Look where you've come from and all the things that you've been doing. This is years and years of struggle and figuring things out and messing up and working through it. That to me is manhood. You got to go through struggle and you have to figure these things out. Mm-hmm.
I mean, I couldn't have said it better. I think you nailed it. Women love to see men. kind of living your purpose and loving it and excelling at it. To me, there's nothing sexier. It's like if a man knows what he's doing, and he's got confidence and confidence like everything else does like he doesn't need money like what you know what I mean like I just want to see you do really good at something and There is something too to finding a partner that's supportive of your dreams. Oh yeah.
Even if they're ambitious and they want to help you and support you in whatever way that kind of looks like. And that would definitely be something to consider if you notice a pattern of that not being there. It's like maybe this isn't a good fit. I do find... we've we are attracted to people that have similar wounds like an opposite like a lock and a key right so you'll find someone and it seems to work but as you start to heal yourself like you were talking about and you just kind of
expect better that those relationships will tend to fall apart because you bonded over something that you no longer are so a lot of people might dismiss like working on yourself and right and like think that that's kind of woo or you know i don't know like modern day nonsense but i think that there's something real tangible to that because like you said if you're
operating at a higher level and someone comes to you like this is what I'm presenting you're not going to accept that because you know what your value is and your worth is and unfortunately A lot of us are having to learn that in adulthood because of these hard childhoods or the lack of a good role model as a parent. And it's never too late. I don't think it's ever too late to work on yourself and say,
have a moment of deep reflection and ask yourself, is this the life that I want? Am I the person I want to be? Am I being a good example to my children of like what a woman is or a father is and a man, right? and really painfully self audit those things. I don't think that there's ever, I'm like really big into Adlerian psychology. Like it's like probably one of my favorite facets of it. And some of it will seem like.
untouchable like it doesn't make sense for modern day life but i kind of i look at it how i look at christianity in a way where
if you look at something that's like perfection, right? Like people like look at Jesus as the model to be, well, you're never going to be perfect, right? Like we are born flawed and we're going to always make mistakes. But if you're... level that of that you are trying to like strive for is perfection of course you're gonna fall short but you're always going to be doing a little bit better and slowly improve so i don't think that there's anything wrong with having like a
like a perfect model if you can understand you won't be but it's like how can I improve a little bit every single day and that is going to affect like not only like your life but the life of everyone that you touch and that is so important and then you'll realize like the relationships that are supposed to be there um and the life that you're supposed to kind of you're supposed to have And you brought up Christianity. Last year I was baptized. And that... That to me really solidified my purpose.
it's not just to get as much attention as I possibly can. It's to serve. I realized before I was baptized, like, the thing that I've always done that I feel that I'm good at And God has put me in a place to do is to serve. My first job was at an alarm company, right? I'm following, I can't get up. I'm serving the public, I'm helping them. All of my jobs, whether it be in the IT field or not, have been customer service. When I was an IT manager, I'm in person serving my company, helping people.
You know, and they may come with me like, hey, I got a computer at home. I'll help you out. Serving them, right? And here I am. I'm also trying to help people. I'm serving the public by utilizing the things that have hurt me the most in my life as a warning. something to empower people to know that, yeah, I went through that, I overcame it, so can you? I'm trying to do everything I possibly can to serve.
but even more so to do the things that I feel that God has allowed for me to go on this trajectory. I felt the very first thing I did was write my first book. I don't know if you know my origin story, I guess. No, I don't. Okay. uh we all know what happened in 2020 yeah um and so you know covet happened lockdowns you know asking questions and then george floyd happened i'm like
Now we're not allowed to ask questions. All of a sudden, every black person is a victim and all this other stuff. And I started going to online forums and just kind of asking, am I going crazy or is everybody else going crazy? And then figuring out I'm not going crazy like a lot of stuff has just rapidly changed and
I had an idea like a year prior of writing a book as something like a legacy thing for my son. And so I was like, I think this is it. I think this is the idea. So I was, essentially I started off with like, I'm going to write a book about race. But if someone reads it, Black Victim, the Black Victor, it's something much deeper. As a matter of fact, in many parts, you can swap out black and replace it with anything.
I'm talking about victim mentality. There are some things that are specific to black Americans, but I'm talking about my childhood. I'm talking about all these different facets. and American culture. And from there, I was just like, let me see if anybody wants to hear about it. And so I wasn't even on Twitter. I had a Facebook account. I wasn't even using it. So I literally started from scratch in 2021 when I published it and just reached out to people.
I think I really started getting active on Twitter, I think it was August of 2021. And I think it was September of 2022, I had 100,000 followers on Twitter. And by then I started writing for more mainstream publications. I think it was shortly after that where I started, I can't remember the timeline, but it was somewhere, it was April something, I started writing for the New York Post.
First, it just started with one article. It was supposed to be on Newsweek. And they were like, oh, I'm sorry, we can't publish it. Send it over to New York Post. And I just name dropped the editor. I was like, hey, they told me to send it over. The next day they were like, it's a great article. We're publishing it. I was like, oh shit. Amazing. And then I think it was like a month and a half went by. Then I published like my second article. And then I think by the third article, it was like,
every week. It was like one to two articles. For about two years strong, I was writing something for the New York Post, giving my opinion about whatever, and a variety of things, so not just race. politics culture things of that nature family and developed a writing career that I wasn't even anticipating, all because I just said, let me try it. Let me just do something, which is the opposite mentality that I would have had in my early 30s.
so that's kind of like that's my origin story that's so cool yeah yeah that's amazing and i loved what you were saying about being of service because to me like the way that you have been able to kind of have like a mindset shift with a lot of your life i think is probably attributes to a lot of your success because you can have the exact same incident happen and whether you look at it like a victim and this is happening to me or like how can I make this for me or
One exercise I do if I'm like around certain family members or like people that are just kind of like forever stuck to your circle that you maybe don't want to engage with. instead of noticing all the things that you don't like about them it's like well how can I be of service how can I help this person and then that gives you something to do and that helps me a lot in those situations it's like the power of your mind can't be understated and you can like take something that
I don't know, seems to have like zero benefit. And then eventually I think. it kind of goes into like destiny in a weird way it's like once you start doing like the right things like everything else will unfold for you and you're like oh i'm on the right path yeah and a lot of that is stepping out of like a victim mindset because if you're stuck there i feel like it's like such a low vibration
place to be, nothing good is going to happen to you there. Yeah, I agree. And if I were to talk about Christianity in one sense, because we were having this dialogue about relationships, one of the things that I realized especially like last year, that everything about Christianity, how I understand it, is relational. I think and I was just telling somebody this yesterday there the difference is the difference between someone who's in love of Christianity and someone who's in love
And those tend to be two different types of people. So someone's in love with Christianity because of the structure it provides, the rules, all of these things that are absent of a relationship, right? And they tend to be the people who are like... I'll smite you They talk like that. And they don't recognize that God is a balance. He is a balance of someone who is incredibly gracious and merciful, but also someone who is incredibly consistent about his standing.
Right. And it's both. It's not one or the other. So, you know, Jesus isn't just a hippie. Right. You know, as someone might try to illustrate him, he is someone who hates sin. It is both. And I find that the interpretation of what Christianity is tends to be an out-of-balance interpretation. And so for me, I'm in love with Jesus Christ because I've seen where the areas where I've fallen short. and how Jesus has saved me and has given me grace and brought me in after decades of being lost.
So I try like you said you can't be a sinless person like Jesus But you can strive for that and you can have a model And that's how I see it. He is a model of conduct. That's the best way of putting it. But he's also a signifier of relationships. And throughout the Bible, if people really see it like this, the Bible talks about relationships, encounters with people, the Ten Commandments.
Much of it is talking about how you treat each other relationally. Thou shalt not commit murder. Why? Because it's a violation of your relationship between each other. Cain and Abel is an example of that. When he murdered his brother, what happened to him? His life. went to shit, essentially. Why you shouldn't commit infidelity. It's a violation of your relationship that you made, the promise that you made with your partner, right? See, these are all rules about relationships.
And so for me, it goes beyond I don't cheat on my wife, but it's also that I got married in a church in front of God. I was baptized. in front of my family making promises to God about my conduct. These things hold a higher authority than myself, and I take them incredibly seriously. And I think if people looked at Christianity from a relational standpoint, and unfortunately the biggest thing that turns off people from Christianity are other Christians. Yes.
But I do think that for every bad Christian, there are 10 more who are absolutely wonderful. You just need to get around more of them. But Jesus talks about wolves in sheep's clothing and these guys who go around using Christianity. to say this is why women are less than and we should do this and only men can do this. And that's not what it says and your interpretation is a bad interpretation.
It has always been about loving and respecting each other, regardless if you're a man or woman. It has always been about truth. I'm the way and the light and the truth, right? Truth is incredibly important. It's not about deception. Deception is not of God. So when you look at all these things, why should you be truthful? And it's because it upholds your relationship. So I am truthful with my wife. I don't lie to her. I'm not deceptive. Because being deceptive is not loving.
where being truthful is loving. So when you start looking at it from a relational standpoint, that to me is what really attracts me to the Christian faith.
No, I love all of that, and I couldn't agree more. I see a lot of people that are weaponizing Christianity for their own bad behavior and their own belief sets, so they'll find and interpret it in a way that supports... behavior there's no way that this is what it meant even when it comes to the idea of women supposed like you know be seen and not heard essentially which is like this new it's insane
There are so many quotes in the Bible that are, you know, like you submit to each other because it is relational. There are so many stories in the Bible of like these really fierce wives that would like go to war with their husbands or like come avenge. There were very strong women throughout the Old and the New Testament that weren't this demure little thing that just sat there.
you can just say what you want in a relationship and like own that but don't like use these tools that are meant for good to prop up your own bad behavior it's driving me nuts and then Again like the thing that drives or people away from Christianity as other Christians, there is this...
weird coincidence of these men that are converting and then all of a sudden a scandal comes out and it's like the timing of this is pretty impeccable and I think part of that is taking advantage of those good Christians that you're talking about because so many of them are like well
forgiving and like very open to giving people a second chance you know I mean that redemption that's a lot of the whole purpose of the religion so again like it grosses me out so much it's like you're taking advantage of what is supposed to be a very good thing on both spectrums
don't let other people's bad behavior deter you from like your own exploration of whatever like you know spirituality or religion because I do think that ties into a lot of probably what's in your book as well as a lack of belief in something bigger than ourselves. greater and we have replaced God with money.
fame so we haven't less religious we've just replaced god with these things that it's um you know it's like don't worship false idols like false idols are going to be your social media your politicians your government like we haven't again like we had that you know god-shaped hole I mean we all talked about when we were putting these like really things and replacement of God and unfortunately again like clicks are usually like the car
so don't let those things deter you from exploring like god because i do think that that heals a lot of a lot of our issues that we're going through right now as like a people in a society yeah and i do think that um The Bible also talks about how we treat our children, right?
if I can go on a small dime please yeah I talk about very clearly about my frustration with the defense of hitting children thank you I'm so glad this is where you're going continue please And I wrote an article for Dad Save America talking about why you shouldn't hit your kids.
For one, I've heard every single argument, and I even put it in the article, and I said, here's what the response is going to be. And quite literally in the comments, all the responses were all the arguments, all the things that I said were going to happen. But I'm not saying that from my perch as someone who's never raised a child or something of that nature. I grew up being spanked, right? Not every single day, but it was part of the discussion.
When I had my son, and he was very young, I would pop him. But I didn't like it. I never liked it. And I remember when I was a kid that when I messed up, I felt terrible. You know, just like any other kid, they're getting screamed at. And yeah, they feel bad. So the last thing you want to do is hit them on top of it. You don't need to. That's just something on top of something that is unnecessary.
So I just stopped. My son was very young and I didn't tell him. I just said to myself, I'm not going to do that anymore. And for every time he messed up, I talked to him more. For the rest of his life, he's 19 now. I never needed to. Right? Because I could always talk to him. And when you tell people that you talk to your kid, they always picture like some white lady liberal who's like, now Tommy, why don't you tell me? And Tommy's like, fuck you, mom. You know, not like that.
You know I'm saying I'm not yelling at him, but I'm scolding him. Because I expect more from you. And here's why I'm upset. And I'm telling you. When your child respects you, just knowing that they disappointed you is enough to make them cry. But a lot of this stuff takes a lot of effort and time. It's easy to just take out a belt, hit them, and they cry and they go to their room and you can just move on. One, you got your frustration out. And two,
you know, it passes as you did something rather than not doing anything. And a lot of people think that, well, If you don't hit them, then you're not disciplining them. They think there's only two options. Either you hit them or they just get away with everything and you're never disciplined.
And I was like, no, there's definitely a third option. And that third option is you discipline them by not hitting them, right? You address and punish when necessary. But just because they mess up doesn't mean that you need to punish them. Right. Sometimes you need to teach them as to why what they did was wrong and why they messed up. And it takes a lot of patience to do something like that. But that's what love is. You're patient with someone you love and you care about.
And also, you know, discipline stems from discipleship, right? To teach. What are you teaching your child by hitting them? Nothing. Nothing, other than to be afraid of being hit. Right. And funny enough, I was having this conversation with someone else, and they were like, you know, when I was an adult and got into an argument with my father, for like a split second, I got that feeling like my dad is about to hit me. And I'm like, that's what he taught you.
You know, when dad raises his voice and ask what is about to come, he didn't teach you. He didn't verbalize. He didn't use his authority properly. And so what I'm saying is... Alright, your mom or your dad hit you. That doesn't make them evil, terrible parents. What I'm saying is, is there a better way? And of course there's a better way. Think about what exactly are you teaching your child by hitting them.
And if hitting your child is this foolproof plan, there's a lot of motherfuckers locked up who've been hit. Yeah. Did that work? Right. And guess what? Especially from the avenue of a single mom, at some point, it doesn't hurt. Right? When they're 12 and 13 towering over you, they're like, Mom, cut it out. Right. Right? It doesn't hurt.
and you didn't teach them anything, right? You just taught them to withstand being hit. You didn't teach them as to, one, that you love them despite their mistakes, two, how they can avoid those things, And we all, and listen, it'd be different if this was like hundreds of years ago and we didn't understand how the child brain works or brain development works, even on a superficial level.
We know that the brain isn't finished developing until about the age of 25. It's 30 now for men, is what they're saying. Isn't that crazy? 30. Which makes sense. Yeah, it tracks. It tracks. So we know these things. So your child is going to mess up. Kids cannot see around the corner.
That's the best way of putting it. So you have to repeatedly tell them that something is around the corner and here's what you need to look out for and they're going to forget and you're going to have to tell them again. Like this is child development. Like you're going to repeat yourself.
and I see parents who are frustrated, who say, I'm tired of telling you this, and they say stuff like, you always, these things stay in a kid's head, and it makes them think like, I'm a screw-up, because my mother says she always tells me And it plants seeds of doubt into that kid. It's teaching them the wrong thing, right? But I also talk about, like within the book,
You kind of brought this up before about a social dynamic around parenting. And I have a chapter called Socially Comfortable Terrible Parenting. And these parents who treat their children terribly, abandon their kids and do all this stuff, and they get to come to the cookout, they get to hang out with family members and friends, and it's not like it's in secret. They all know.
no one checks them on it they get they get to live their life they get to give some pitiful although you know the baby mother you know she did this and I said you know what I'm just gonna come back when he turns 18 and talk to him and I was like that's not That's not going to work, right? And that's bullshit because when the kid turns 18, guess what? You spent 18 years avoiding the child.
Your pattern is to avoid your child you think you're going to just pop up one day and be like hey by the way i know you don't know who i am but i'm going to say that the parent that raised you was terrible i'm the good guy i'm the good guy in this equation
Meanwhile, I didn't fight for you. I didn't advocate for you. You never saw me. You didn't see me at the court. You didn't see any of that stuff. Yet somehow you want me to buy that you're the good guy. These are the delusions that other people... about the excuses that we make. And so it's this pattern of rationalizing terrible parents. And you're so afraid that you're going to hurt that person by being honest with them and saying, hey, it's not good that you abandoned your kid.
and you need to do something about it, but they just say, not my business. No, it's weird how much conflict people want to avoid or confrontation because they just want to be liked. We all want to be liked in this again. Like everything tracks to childhood. I don't have that affliction. If anything, I could probably be reeled in a little bit.
It's like finding that balance is tricky. I have lost friendships over this. So there was a bachelorette party and it was like five days in Miami. Like all these girls were going and one of them was a fresh mom.
like fresh mom. Like I'm talking like four weeks old and couldn't wait to get away from this baby. And I was like, this is terrible like you that baby needs the mom like for the first year that you really shouldn't be leaving for any extended amount of time because that attachment is being developed and like they're still breastfeeding like it's there's just all these things um
and she was just overwhelmed and I think it was like her second or third kid and I was talking to one of the women that was going and like I didn't know this woman very well so I was like I don't know that this is my place and i basically gave her an ultimatum was like either you say something to her Or I'm going to, and it's not going to be good because that baby needs someone to say something to this mom, right?
um and I lost that whole friend group because of it and I don't know what happened I don't know if that you know I haven't she went on the trip so no one listened either way but I'm like these are not the type of women I want to be around because if you if you're all kind of like condoning this bad behavior and saying
the only thing that matters is like me having fun or i'm stressed and i deserve this like i do believe moms don't get enough support i think mom like that whole postpartum period it can absolute hell if you don't have the right people around you like hormones are crazy but that's still not an excuse to go
behave badly. So I totally agree in holding the people around you accountable regardless if that's going to cause some waves because like the littles need that because they can't advocate for themselves.
And circling back to, like, the hitting, this is, like, something I've talked ad nauseum about, and it doesn't seem to get through because people always do the whole, like, you know, spare the rod, spoil the child. Yes. That's not, it's... find me stuff in the bible that is actually meant to be taken literal like most of it is not it's meant to be interpreted and then and then developed to you know modernity
Like we're not talking about getting swallowed by a whale. Like what does this represent, right? Or like have one fish feed a thousand people. It's not one fish feeding a thousand people. It was like talking about enlightenment, right? And sharing like a collective experience with people.
don't actually grab a rod it's don't let your kid become like a feral unproductive member of society like they need to be held accountable at age appropriate um time so you're not teaching anything except for how do i avoid getting hit how do i avoid getting caught and there's this idea that when they're super young like they look at mom and dad as god right like they don't know any different like you are god to them you are their universe their life
their world is so small like you are everything to them and the moment that you decide to hit them to physically hurt them there's like this split that happens because that's supposed to be my protector that's supposed to be like this thing that I get love and light from and now like there's this split and there's this dichotomy between that person and now I'm scared of them and now I can't trust that and That's really confusing, and I think that that can be really harmful for a kid.
I want my kids, no matter how bad they mess up, to know they can come to me because the alternative is very dangerous, especially as they get into their teenage years. It's not to say that I'm going to help them get out of things without consequence, but I need them and their nervous system and their mind and their heart.
place to go to and if i'm undermining that from a young age that is going to stick when they're older exactly and and there's actually another part of it because we are talking about the children who become afraid of their parents But there's another faction of the children who rationalize every decision their parent made, including being hit. And I talked about that within the book in the same chapter.
It's like Stockholm syndrome, you know, and this is a common thing not to make it necessarily racial, but it is common amongst black Americans. where it's like a trope in comedy where they talk about being beaten up by their parents, especially their moms. And... It's like a form of Stockholm Syndrome where they're talking about how they were in distress like they messed up at school
And they're walking home from school in dread. They know they're about to get beat down. They walk through the door. Their mother's screaming at them and says, go get the weapon. So now they have to go get the weapon, which is very like... sociopathic sounding. Go get the weapon that I'm about to hit you with. Wow. And they're laughing about
And then they're getting beat down and they got bruised and they're laughing about this entire exchange. And then what's worse, and I've seen this multiple times, oh, I deserve it. Oh, you deserve... See, if we ran into a woman who said, I deserve for my boyfriend to hit me because I wasn't listening to him, you'd be like, well, your boyfriend doesn't love you. Right? That's not a good interpretation of what he did. But for children... Oh, that's a sign of love. Your parents...
And the old, um... It hurts me more than it hurts you. Like that bullshit. Show me the data on that. I think if we were being radically honest about it, most of the time, probably 99% of the time when that's... the parenting style or the discipline method it is because the parent needs a release they need that emotional release or that physical release because they are so exhausted or they're so frustrated or angry or whatever and they're selfishly taking their kid and using it as a tool
feel better and kind of what you said at the very beginning is well now I did something so now I'm a good parent so like I've validated and I can check all of these boxes that I'm you know supposed to be doing and it's the laziest way to parent to me yeah and it's and it's almost like Don't know if you've ever seen this but I've seen this where it's like blood I've seen, like let's say a child is acting up in a grocery store, right? And let's say they're being spoiled or whatever.
I've seen people talk about like, man, I saw that kid and I wanted to come over there and beat that. And I was like, wait a second. This child is like a third of your size and you want to go over there and beat down a child? You know how crazy you sound? But this is the type of culture that exists. Where beating children is seen as a good deed. And it's like, no, you're beating a child. If we said, go out there and beat that dog.
Most people would say, absolutely not. That's not. Obviously, there are people who beat dogs. But most people, if you said that publicly, they'd be like, that's not a good idea. You shouldn't do that. That actually is counterproductive. But for kids, oh, it's perfectly fine. That's a sign of love. You hit them. And this is where I go back to Christianity. Using that one line in Scripture. Which, like you said, It comes from all Jewish.
philosophy, right? That particular part of scripture. But if you just take that one line and ignore everything else, The essence of what that entire portion of the Bible is talking about is disciplining your child, teaching them, right? Discipleship. It's not a... If you ever take one line out of the Bible and that becomes your entire philosophy of raising children, then you're not doing it right.
You have to look at the entire context of what it's saying. It's talking about what happens when you don't teach your children. It's saying this is why you should teach your children. It's not waxing on poetically about beating down kids with a rock. Like, that's the insane part about the whole use of that.
that particular scripture, is that interpretation to validate what adults want to do. And I have a friend who's a theologian, and we've had this discussion, and she agrees with me, but she says, Adam, you have to understand, Anyone can take something from the Bible and use it to their advantage. There's a part of scripture where it says children must listen to their parents, right? Essentially, that's what it is. And she said, I've heard men use that as a validation for molesting their children.
So you can quite literally take anything in the Bible and validate it and remix it and say this is how it interprets. So I can do whatever I want to make. And so that line, that one line, where it features a rod, which in their head turns into a physical object you must... Beat the kid, otherwise you're spoiling them. to me ignores the greater context of what it says, but even more so we just talked about Jesus Christ.
What is the conduct of Jesus Christ? That's the pinnacle. Do we think that Jesus will go around hitting children? With a rod. With a rod. Does that sound... And that's for me, like the New Testament, especially in the Gospels, the Gospels are talking about conduct. See, it's one thing to say, like, philosophically, God kind of wants you to do these things. But now we have a human being that we can mimic our behavior. Would Jesus want you to cheat on your wife?
Right? No, of course not. Would Jesus want you to hit people indiscriminately? Of course not. Would Jesus want you to beat down your child until they cry mercy? Like, of course not. so that's that to me when using christianity to validate beating down children i think is absolutely absurd and a lot of people will not agree with what i'm saying
I can't wait to see the comments on this clip. I agree with you, and I think most people are. It's going to be the few angry people that decide to leave a comment, but I'm really glad you brought that up because it's something I'm really passionate about talking about because... everything, everything like exists in these like seasons and cycles and have a way of kind of resurfacing and becoming popular again and I think that's one of those things as we're seeing.
kind of like a pushback from like the lack of parenting that a lot of people did right like the no consequences whatsoever this over correctional I guess my parents hit me so let's go back to that and it's like how about like neither of those things are great and let's find a healthy balance yeah a balance or an alternative to those I couldn't agree To me, everything is about balance. We were talking about rhetoric.
If it sounds crazy, that's like reading headlines. If the headline sounds crazy, it's probably not true, right? It's probably somewhere in the middle. And then you go and read the text and you're like, oh, Like, the headline's absurd. They got me. They got me, right?
But you have to find some sort of balance whenever you deal with anything, whether you deal with propaganda, whether you deal with children, relationships, you have to find some sort of balance. And often that balance is more truthful and honest about what you need to do. So, yeah, if beating down your kid on one side and the other side, which is also equally detrimental because
By not disciplining your child, your child is thinking, my parents don't even love me to tell me not to do anything. That's like the parents who say, well, you can smoke weed and drink in the house because at least you're doing it around me where you're safe. yeah you're telling your kid that um My parents don't even love me enough to tell me no. They just let me get away with it.
And every kid knows they're not supposed to be drinking alcohol and smoking weed. They know that. Which is why when they do it, they know they're rebelling. But my parents are cool. No, your parents aren't cool. They're lazy or they're probably addicts themselves. And they want to be liked. And they want to be liked. So it's that type of thing. There's a balance between the two. And how I feel when it came to me raising my son is that I chose the balance.
I tried the hitting thing. I didn't like it because it felt wrong, right? Instinctually, it felt wrong. And so I found the balance. Of course, it disciplined my child. If he messed up, yeah, hell yeah. Matter of fact, There was one time, it was my nephew and my son were at my son's mother's house.
They were messing around something like that his mother called me and I heard his grandmother in the background Is like they're doing it and I said I'll be right there And I came over there, and I said, both of you, get over here. And I looked him in the face and was like, don't you ever.
Like I just, I scolded them for about five minutes straight and they looked at me like, whoa, because I'm normally calm and reserved. But if you test me, I'm going to come out there and I'm going to unleash my authority. And from that moment on, they never did that again. And I got so many kudos from his mother and the grandmother. Like, whoa, Adam, like, they listen to you. And there is something about male authority that is incredibly important for children.
I learned that through experience. But so many examples. My wife has talked about working in a daycare and dealing with all these little kids. And the one guy that worked there, when he came around, they like stopped and listened. There's something innate about male authority that a lot of kids treat differently. No, so there are very few male teachers where my littles go.
it's so funny because mine love this guy like they they do gravitate towards him but I tend like I'm more of the disciplinarian I don't want to be but that's just kind of how it's worked out I do agree it's better if the the father does it they listen better and like
it doesn't go as far, right? Like it gets nipped in the bud much sooner if dad's taking on that role. But because I have really strong boundaries with them at home, like they actually like that when they're at school. They like that about this male teacher, but you can see the kids that like.
They're like, oh, so-and-so is so, he has so many rules, or he's always telling me what not to do, and they kind of tell their parents that he's, like, mean at school. I was like, he's not mean. He's just one of the few that's actually, like...
holding a boundary and having an expectation of what's acceptable and not acceptable behavior. And I think that that goes back into men not understanding the importance of their role as a father is you can do the same thing I can say hey stop doing that but what is going to happen is it's going to keep escalating until like I get to a point where they do listen and I'm like yelling which I don't like to do either because I put that kind of in the lazy categories like I want to use other
before that, because if you're always yelling, it's not going to have that impact, right? If you're always talking to them with that stern voice, you're like, oh, he doesn't mean it, right?
but sometimes I feel like I don't have enough tools to like have the effect where I know if it was like their father or if it was an respected it would be like immediate like yes sir you know so um don't assume that like mom can do everything like there's a very valid role of fathers and I just men just need to like wake up and realize it's a beautiful thing and step into that because
You're quite literally changing the world like that is what raising kids is doing and I don't think there's a job that's more important or powerful than doing that. I can't wait to get more feedback on your book. Can you tell people where they can buy it, purchase it, how they can support you if you're doing anything that they can catch you on live, all that good stuff? Yeah, I do have a YouTube channel. slowly growing, at wrong underscore speak.
or I give some political and social commentary. But they can purchase the book from their favorite retailer, Amazon, or they can buy it directly from Wrongspeak, wrongspeak.net. They can purchase a copy there. The audio book. before the end of April, should be on every audiobook platform. Did you read it? I did not read it. Oh, bummer. You have a really good voice for it. Thank you. Yeah. But my friend, Peter Feliciano, who's
who's actually based here in Austin. He's the one who read it for me. But no, it's a lot of work. Yeah, I've heard. Yeah. And I would be so pissed off because I got to start over. I was like, I didn't say that right. But no, the audiobook should be available before the end of the month for all platforms. And e-book, of course, is available.
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming. I really enjoyed this conversation, and I hope that your book is wildly successful. It's very important. Thank you. I appreciate it. You're welcome. And before you guys sign off, if you could hit that link. button check out our affiliates and sponsors below and we will see you next episode bye everybody