The the thing that you do to create these items it's born out of creativity, resilience and just this spirit of making things that fit what your what your way of life is So, they would, my late grandma was a carpenter too, I mean, among other things, but she was able to create these stools like we had a stool probably for 40, 30 or 40 years that withstood time because she just created it in such a. You know, that it held up.
And so, creating these little Barbies and it's just a reflection of that, I think, and it makes me feel connected to my late grandma. And I think it makes other people feel so special that there's something that reflects who they are. And I just love being able to create that and helping people to have that connection, whether they're an adult or it's something that they could share with their kids and create for their kids.
That was Angela Gonzalez. She's an artist and a writer. And through her beadwork, her blog, the Athabascan Woman blog, and the Fish Camp Barbie dioramas she creates, she shares her heritage. She says that it's all a reflection of the way she grew up. Fish camp was a big part of that. As a kid, that's where she spent most of her summers, about 16 miles from her home in Hooslia, along the Coyacook River.
While the adults were harvesting the fish, her grandma would put Angela's Barbies in settings that resembled what was happening all around them. Catching the fish. Hanging the fish. Preserving it. Cooking it. And then once she was old enough, she helped out with those chores. Angela says that she didn't realize how special Fish Camp was until she started creating Fish Camp Barbie dioramas for her own daughters.
It was a way to share her life with them, and to teach them how to be proud of who they are. From her time at Fish Camp, Angela also learned the importance of work. That if you want to succeed, then you need to work. Today, this manifests itself in her beading. It's easy for her to sit down for a few hours and focus on a project. She's beaded earrings, pins, the top of gloves, slippers, coasters.
A recent project she finished included caribou tufting, raised beadwork, and silverberry beads that she harvested herself. She says she's inspired by the beadwork of her late grandmas and her aunts, their color choices, designs, and techniques. She likes to think about the stories and the experiences that led them to create their art. So here she is, Angela Gonzalez. Welcome to Chattermarks. A podcast of the Anchorage Museum.
Dedicated to exploring Alaska and the Circumpolar North through the creative and critical thinking of ideas. Past, present, and future. Music. What does Barbie mean to you? Well, Barbie is just, I guess, of course, it's a doll, you know. But when I was younger, my late grandma, she would dress up our dolls and help us make little outfits and tools and stuff like that. So, in fish camp, we stayed from the time school got out until the time school started in the fall.
So, we spent most of our summers about 16 miles below Houslia. And so, of course, you know, toys was something that we just had to have an imagination for. Yeah. And so, it was just brings back memories of playing with Barbies along the cut bank of the Kaikook River. And do you remember your first Barbie? I don't think I remember the first Barbie. I just remember it in a place, which is in the sand with these elaborate mansions of sand, made with sand, along the river.
And then just the tools, like my grandma would make little ulus or tlabas. Tlabas is the Danaka name for the little knife. Okay, yeah. And she made that out of like the salt shakers. Oh, okay. They just, you know, had different... Something that reflected our ways of life, which was fishing.
So, when we weren't playing, we were doing chores, whether that was helping with cooking or gathering wood, hanging up fish, watching the fire, stoking it as needed, and then just cutting fish if we were old enough. So, you're going back and forth between, you know, as a kid on the river, You're going back and forth between playing with these Barbies in these situations that are resembling what's happening around you. Yes. Yeah, definitely. It's just like that was our way of life, you know.
And so, it was just a way of playing. I didn't think it was like unique or anything like that. Until much later. And it just brought back memories as I was creating this little scene for my youngest daughter, how special it was. But yeah, it was just playing, you know, and we made clothes for them. And it was just, I guess, like a magical time now that I look back on it.
How often were your mom and your grandma creating these things like, you know, those miniature ulus we had them all the time so probably every time um there was uh we finished the salt yeah okay it didn't i don't think it took too long um and you know with each each package you would get two nicely shaped little ulu blades yeah and then we just put a stick on it to to be the handle, But probably, you know, throughout the summer, we might have finished like at least one, but maybe two. Mm-hmm.
Do you remember if the Barbie dolls you played with as a kid were white? Yes, they were mostly blonde hair, blue eyed Barbies. They didn't quite look like us, but that didn't stop us from playing with them. Do you remember what you thought about that at the time or was it just a doll? It was pretty much just a doll. I didn't think about the fact that it didn't look like me.
I just imagined this far-off place where, because in our village, there was mostly Native people, either Koyukon, Athabascan, or Inupiaq. And so, that was my frame of reference. And everything else was either from like what I could imagine from TV or radio or, you know, magazines from about this different life outside of the village. What did you think about that different life outside of the village?
I just imagine that people had like these houses with a lawn and like, I guess the picket fence and just a family, you know. And I guess I didn't really imagine too much more than that, besides what I might have learned about something from TV. What do you remember learning from TV about that kind of life? Just that... There was this whole different life that people were living in these cities. I was, you know, from the village, so it was even hard to imagine, like, what life would be like.
Like, you know, as far as, like, everyone having a car and driving around and having street signs and cement all over. I remember when I went, the first time I went to the lower 48, I went to DC and I just saw like cement. And so, everything was so new and just so like, I was totally shocked.
Like a big culture shock of all this, seeing all this cement and crossing the street when, you know, there's a stoplight and have the little hand yeah yeah so just putting those real references to things that i saw on tv they're like right there in front of me yeah and did it feel like.
You were in those television scenarios those television scenes, a little bit um like i just remember like green grass you know that's a big thing that was often showed on tv and um so people with lawns i just thought that was like so interesting um and i thought it was so cool like you know they would show picnics uh people having picnics on their lawn or in a park, you know? So, when I got to see those places in real life, I thought it was really cool.
Why do you think green grass, you mentioned green grass and that's something that you really recognized when you were in DC and also concrete.
Why do you think that those two things really stuck out to you i think that it's just such a um something that you saw on tv regularly okay um like i remember the first time i like crossed this um walk this walkway i think i ran because i was so scared okay of um and everyone else was walking like normal um but i think it was it just, I think there was a lot of fear because I didn't know if cars would stop. But once I got used to it, of course, it was normal.
It's no big deal. But coming from the village, it's like when you're going to this totally new situation and place, it's just hard to imagine. And like, I don't know, that fear. I just remember running. Were you running from whatever it was, the cars possibly, or were you running to? I think I was running because I didn't know like how much time it would take to run across. Well, first of all, it was a different intersection in the fact that it was like six lanes, so three lanes on each side.
So, it was a huge intersection. So, that's why part of it. But, yeah, it was like my first time crossing an intersection like that. And so, I just, I think I was running to the other side and not knowing if I had enough time to cross. I wonder if you've had a visitor, maybe you hosted somebody in Hooslia that had a similar reaction to Hooslia as you did to D.C. Oh, yeah. Like the opposite culture shock? Probably.
I've brought friends to Hooslia and Bettles because we used to live in Bettles, which is north of Hooslia on the Kaikuk River. Okay. And they were just, like, shocked about, like, how we lived, that there was no, you know, there was dirt roads mainly, and then coming in on a small plane, that was just so scary for them. Okay. And that was a way of life for us, you know, in Alaska. Yeah. Like a nine-seater or sometimes a six-seater, sometimes an 18-seater.
Yeah. But, yeah, and the food. I think that was a total culture shock for my friends who visited. They just... I mean, I think some of it was, like, shocking, and thankfully they were open. But one time we had muskrat soup, and that was just something normal that my grandma, my late grandma cooked, you know. And so, they were just really not, it was kind of like, eh, for them.
But um to i guess to her credit she tried it and she um it wasn't as bad as she imagined i guess okay but it was just like a normal thing for us like soup you know yeah yeah i wonder, what did you show them your visitors what did that trip look like for them you know in your mind you're showing them your home community. You know, you're showing them Houslia and you want, I would assume, you want them to have this full picture of where you grew up.
Yes. Um. When I went away to college at the University of Tulsa in Oklahoma, a couple of my friends came back and visited at different times. So, for this time, I would try to explain what life was like, and they were always curious. Lots of people were curious about how I was raised, and I would talk about things.
And it was just such a, like, you and I could probably have that same conversation of you growing up in, you know, maybe the city and then I'm growing up in the village about our different lifestyles. You would be curious, you know. So, they asked me a lot of questions. And so, I think that curiosity brought them to Alaska. They wanted to see, you know, and probably some of their perceptions of Alaska in general, of this beautiful place where we have the tallest mountain.
And they wanted to see that too, but they were able to come to the village and just get a real life experience of what it was like, the food, and then traveling by four-wheeler, traveling by boat. My friend Chris, she met us in Bettels, and then my family was already going down to Hooslia by boat. So, we took a long boat ride, and that was how we spent a lot of the trip. But I think she was really curious about all the stories that I told about what
it was like to grow up and live in Alaska and in the village. Do you remember... The stories that you would tell them i think mainly like the food i would try to explain because mainly because i missed the food the native food like um moose soup dry meat um crackers so i think that was one of the things that people were curious about sometimes i was fortunate to be able to bring some um dried moose meat down with me And they got to sample some.
But I think I shared about like moose hunting and how we, you know, work to like smoke it and put it away and then fishing, being out on the boat. And I remember talking about winter and people answering questions about the darkness and how dark we were. And then just about clearing up misperceptions they might have about, you know, thinking that everyone in Alaska were Eskimos. And so, you know, I'm Koyakan Athabaskan, so it's different.
But, you know, so just talking about that difference. And then, of course, there was all these misperceptions about people in Alaska living in igloos. So, sometimes I would joke around about that. But no, I would just clear it up for the most part. Yeah. That's kind of all you can do. Yeah. Was there a point when you were answering these questions that you realized that the place you grew up in was something that other people were interested in?
Yeah. I mean, just the sheer amount of answering questions, sharing about what life was like. I found that so many people were really interested in that. They had so many questions about, you know, the littlest things to the big things. I didn't know all the answers. You know, I was a teenager when I left to go to school, and it's not like I'm an adult now, so I might know a little bit more information. But it's not like I'm an expert on our ways of life, just my experience.
But even my experience of living in fish camp was so interesting to people. And people, you know, want that, I guess, that experience and want to see what that lifestyle is like. So, I found myself explaining a lot over the years about that and then clearing up any stereotypes that people had about Alaskan Native people or Koi-Kon Athabaskan people or people from rural Alaska.
You just mentioned, and we've been talking a little bit about, you know, the time that you and your family spent in fish camp. Can you tell me about those summers that you and your family spent in fish camp? Yeah. So, my dad was a dog musher, and a lot of mushers come out of Hustlia, and there are still a lot more mushers in Hustlia. But we're a dog mushing family, and one of the things that we fed the dogs was fish.
So, in addition to eating our fish, we had eating fish, and then we had dogfish. And so we had that I guess pressure or need to go fishing so we would put in our fishnets I the adults we it was multi-family so like my cousins would be there maybe not all summer, my parents were there for most of the summer along with my late grandma but we would have extended family come and go throughout the summer. And they would fish, hang out, and then help.
Everyone had a role from the youngest to the oldest. And so, it was just a life centered around fishing. From the time we got up all the way until the time we went to sleep, I think they checked the fishnet like twice a day. And we would get a lot of fish. So, the older kids and the adults would check the net, come back, and then I think they ate breakfast and, oh, like, yeah, that was part of it. My grandma would start breakfast and we would help start the fire.
And then the adults and older kids would come back with the fish and then they would eat and then we would start cutting the fish.
And so, they would just start slicing and they, I think we had like maybe three or four fish cutting tables and so that's what they did all morning and then we just you know kind of like ran errands got wood that was a big thing like every day and every day we would have to go farther and farther you know because we did that all summer yeah getting driftwood which was you know kind of nice if it washed up but we'd have to go like deeper into the woods so we would do that and then um and then
it would time be time to um maybe rest a little bit after that big rush um sometimes if it was like a nice sunny hot day which we'd had a lot of those in in interior alaska um.
We would be able to go swimming and and then um later in the afternoon the whole the cycle would start again with checking the net again and then we'd cut more fish and then um you know smoke them and keep them smoked and then when they dried because they did we had like um a smoke house where we had our eating fish and then some were outside of on little fish racks outside of the. Smokehouse and then along the banks we had two fish racks mainly for the dogfish and we would.
Dry those and one of our roles or I guess chores was to flip them over so like the the bugs wouldn't you know have the the maggots wouldn't um be growing too much and then we would keep the smoke on it and so that's what kept the bugs away yeah um and then once we finished drying like the dog fish it wouldn't it would take a few days um maybe a week um and then we would uh package them up um and we my dad rigged up this like little um i it was kind of like a.
I i call it a box but it was more like a um something with four pegs where okay they could um put all put a stack of fish into it and then we would tie ropes around it so it was just like a system to package that up and then we would either box it or um yeah mainly box it but put it in stacks in the back of the smokehouse um and then at the end of the summer we would bring that back up to um uh the to our house in huslia so yeah we spent i mean i feel
like um we worked a lot. And we did work a lot. So, it's all about working and working together and we, you know, sometimes hear stories. And it was a lot of fun. Like, my late grandma made it fun just so we wouldn't get bored, I'm sure. And then my mom and other aunties made it fun.
We would have well-worn comic books okay archie comic books um and so at least everyone who was able to read read them all maybe more than once um and then and then when we went to town we would trade you know with our uh relatives and friends and and the village and then um, We also had, like, little things, other things to do sometimes, not all the time, but I remember having an embroidery kit.
So, just things that I'm sure my mom would, like, get us started and help us, but just to distract us and, you know, let us not be so bored and wanting to go to Houslia. And when we got to go to Houslia, it was like a treat. Not everyone would be able to go, but if we were good. Like, you know, worked hard and didn't cause too much trouble or get into trouble, then we would kind of like take turns and be able to go to town and take a shower.
We kept clean because we had bathtubs and we were able to shower in the camp. But it was nice to take a warm shower in Hustlia. And then getting some snacks, we would have to be ready to do all the chores in the house, too. We would come with a shopping list, get the shopping done, get all our supplies, get more gas, because they needed gas to, like, check the net every day. And so, but yeah, I remember going back to the village and just enjoying it.
But we had to be quick and come back before the end of the day. Yeah. Like you said earlier, you all worked a lot. You know, what's funny is before you said that, I had written it down to make a comment about it. You know, I'm like, wow, this is a lot of work. How do you think all that work has affected you into adulthood? I think that it's... It gave me a perspective that to succeed, you need to work. And so, it didn't occur to me to sit around and not go forward with my goals.
It was always something like that's ingrained in you that you just have to put in the work to accomplish things. And so, I think that it helped me overall with my work ethic and doing things and constantly doing things. It's about problem-solving, you know, just thinking of ways to survive. So, I think it's totally benefited me. Ways that it comes out is like in beadwork. It's no big deal for me to sit down for a few hours and do some beadwork and accomplish something.
And some people who don't do beadwork, they think it's just this huge thing. But if you sit down and do it, it's something you can accomplish. So, it helped me to make me feel like we can accomplish things in just a short amount of time. And then, yeah, we could rest and relax in different times, too, when we're done with our chores. Do you ever do beadwork when maybe you're watching TV, maybe you're on the phone, things like that to just keep your hands busy?
Oh, totally. I always feel like I have to have my hands doing something. That's what helps me to focus. Um, and I feel like doing something with my hands, it helps my brain to like, uh, learn things. Um, but yeah, I do, um, watch some shows, um, but sometimes it's a little bit too distracting.
Distracting um so i listen to audiobooks and i listen to um podcasts and youtube videos um things that i could have in the background while i'm doing beadwork i um i can just something that doesn't take me away from like i don't want to poke myself or anything like that yeah take away my focus. When you're doing beadwork, to keep your hands busy while you are listening to an audiobook or a podcast or you have a YouTube video on, do you know what you're creating?
Are you planning it? Or does it just happen? Most of the time I have a pattern. And a pattern is like a good recipe in that it's something that you can draw on and then you just follow it. And so, that's something that I'm super grateful for, getting patterns from my late grandma, my mom, my aunties, other bead workers. Sometimes we trade. And so, I draw the pattern on and then, and it's kind of like, I guess, second nature. By the time you put a pattern on, then you just follow it.
But there are choices that you can make along the way that, like color choices or bead choices that you can make that will make each part different or trying a different technique like raised beading or incorporating caribou tufting. So, that's, I guess, the creative part is that you can, you know, follow, but you can also do your own thing. And so, I mostly follow patterns, and I usually have an idea.
Sometimes I try different things and techniques and, I guess, different challenges with harder designs, and I get a lot of requests for different things. And so, sometimes those are challenges, but they're also fun. Yeah.
What was the last pattern or beadwork you did uh one of the things that i'm working on is um cup coasters so where you set your cups down and i'm working on a cranberry pattern and so i just have beating the pattern um and so i made two a set of two blueberries and so So I'm doing a similar thing with cranberries because the person who ordered it wanted four coasters. So they're all about berries. And that's a fun, fun design. Yeah. How about a favorite piece of beadwork you've done?
Let's see. That's a good question. I guess one of the things that I really like doing is slippers in general. They're just such a huge thing for people that, like, they might get one pair of slippers in their lifetime sometimes, if that, you know. And so, it's just something special to people. And I love the feeling of creating something that they will cherish and wear and something that reflects who they are, you know, with either the design or something special that makes it their own.
So, I guess I just like creating things that people will love and appreciate and makes them feel special for having this beadwork item. Yeah. Whether it's a pair of slippers or earrings or a necklace or anything like that. One huge project that I finished recently was like a collar for my oldest daughter. Okay. And it had beadwork and caribou tufting, raised beadwork.
Um, and it was, I also put like silverberry beads that I harvested and, and created, um, in the, I incorporated those in the design. And so it was just really awesome to give that to her. Um, I could just, you know, it just makes people feel special to. Um, Native and non-Native people alike. They really enjoy it. But I think wearing a piece of regalia for my daughter was just something really special, makes her feel special for who she is. Mm-hmm.
And how do you pick out those other things that you include in the beadwork, like the tuft of fur? Are they based on something about your daughter's characteristics, or is it something else? I think it's just being creative in the moment. Sometimes I just want to try different things, make it unique. Like, that was the first time I, that was, I think that was one of the biggest items that I beaded. Yeah, pretty much it is the biggest item that I created. Okay.
And, like, I learned how to do caribou tufting at the, like, March of 2023. So, I've just been slowly trying different projects with that. And so, I knew I wanted to incorporate that. And then the silverberry beads were something that I have wanted to use, and I do use it in different projects. And then so, I wanted to make sure to incorporate that because it feels like something special to me because I harvested the beads.
And it's just something traditional that's been in Native regalia for thousands of years. Yeah. Music. Do you ever study or consider the beadwork of your elders? Yes, definitely. I get inspiration from my late grandmas and aunties, their beadwork. And I look at beadwork that I see in either pictures or museums. I just like looking at the color choices and their designs and how they, I just imagine the ways that they were inspired to create different items and their techniques.
I think about that. Sometimes it's not always apparent the way they did things until you kind of deconstruct something. I like deconstructing old beadwork. If it's falling apart, I'll look in how it was created. Maybe how they did their stitching, and then kind of maybe make a pattern out of their work. That's how I created gloves. We sew gloves together with like a beaded glove top, and then it has fur around the edging.
So, I haven't had a chance to sit down and make those with my family in Houslia. So, deconstructing what was an old pair was one way that I kind of learned about how they did it, and I made a pattern out of their creation. And when you're deconstructing these pieces of beadwork, are you actively thinking about the story behind it, or are you discovering the story behind it? I think it's kind of discovering.
One of the things about the older beadwork is that the beads from 50, 100 years ago are different than they are now. There's not as many color choices, and so, not that that's a bad thing. Nowadays, you know, you can get any color under the rainbow. Yeah. But I like the way they were able to still be creative and share a picture of whatever they were designing, and... And it still comes to life. Like, they had to be so creative.
And then I also hear stories about older regalia when they just didn't throw things away, you know. Like, beads were so precious back then. And I can totally take it for granted nowadays with all the choices that we have for beads and just the quantity that we're able to buy, you know, on the internet. Back in the day, I don't even know how they bought beads.
I'm sure they traded beads, you know. but i know that they used to um if once something is like totally worn out they would take all the beads and then use it on a new project or they would um put it back together but okay like moose hide tanning was something that was a regular you know thing that everyone did for their um beadwork creations but just for regular gear like um bags creating bags for hunting um and then just they use it for all their um warm gear hunting gear um and then
just any any kind of supplies but anyway so um they would have that and they could create new um gloves or slippers or anything like that that they needed um but they would i think about that a lot like how precious those beads were and that they would take them all apart they would take their beadwork apart and then recreate something new with the same beads.
Something that I think I just inevitably do when I go to a museum, for example, and I see something that is an article of clothing or maybe a satchel or something like that that belonged to someone so long ago is, you know, I think about how I interact with my favorite articles of clothing or. You know, a backpack that I really trust. And I think, you know, this was their version of that. And it had a life. And...
Like we've been talking about, I also wonder what that life was like, because it's so similar to our current relationship with all of those things. Yes, definitely. I have similar thoughts as I look at these precious items of my ancestors, because a lot of the museums in Alaska, especially around Fairbanks and then down here, they have collections directly from my ancestors.
So, it's just awesome to see these pieces of regalia or like a gun case that was beaded and it has beads and sometimes yarn on it or mittens. Yes, they were totally built for the area. Like even nowadays in Houslia, a lot of people create warm boots, yarn socks, and then like hats, fur hats from Houslia are really well known to be like really warm and, you know, something that people rely on to survive.
So, yes, I imagine a lot of those pieces, I can kind of picture the time of year that they would use the item and everything like that. Yeah, I loved what you just said about they rely on these pieces to survive. You know, they were so integral to their lives. Yes, definitely. It was not just something that we created for beauty. Like, oftentimes, that's what it is today. Like, I don't necessarily, in Anchorage, need, like, the big winter mitts, but.
You know, I love and appreciate it, but yeah, back then and even nowadays, if I live in the interior, that's something I would definitely love and appreciate. Yeah. Yeah. I read that one of your favorite things to do is listen to elders share stories. Do you have any stories that you go to during times of hardship or maybe stories that comfort you? One story that kind of comes to mind is my late grandma shared about her younger brother.
His name was Jubilee, and it was in the early 1900s, and then it was a time of the flu pandemic. And so it impacted people like whole villages in alaska some were wiped out because of that but a lot of people in the villages um and mainly if back then it was also camps you know okay um and so even the whole camp was like knocked out because of um coming into contact and contracting And so.
One story that she shared was when her and her late brother, they were sick, but they weren't sick enough to help other people. So, someone was able to cook soup, and maybe it was them, but they would bring soup around to the different houses and make sure people…. Soup with the talith, which is the broth that helped them to get better.
But I think about these kids that, you know, I mean, like, I don't know how old they were, but I think they were like, you know, maybe between six and ten years old. Helping a village to survive. And that really wasn't that long time ago, you know?
And and then it kind of i think about that story sometimes about survival and hunger there was lots of days she didn't tell me too much about starvation but starvation was a real thing that would happen you know during certain times of the year or if they had some type of hardship or didn't have luck hunting or gathering and you know that was a real real life experience and probably still is you know for people who are
having a hard time being able to afford food nowadays but yeah that story comes to mind especially when we had this COVID pandemic about, you know, survival and helping each other and just the resilience that they help people to survive. And he, I don't know if he died of the flu, but he didn't live into adulthood.
Lots of people, lots of kids died of childhood common diseases in the villages that were brought in, like mumps or you know just i don't know what the scarlet fever you know okay um lots of people died off that way and as children what's it like when you're sitting there or maybe thinking about when you were sitting there listening to these stories when you were a kid. And you're listening to an elder tell them, My late grandma would share stories, and she was so creative.
She had an amazing sense of humor, and so she would, you know, keep us interested. And, like, each time she told a story, there would be something new. You know, even though it's the same base story, it would, you know. We'd always learn or be able to laugh about something new because she had such an amazing sense of humor.
But also a way of she was a storyteller and and that's just a tradition you know oral um history and storytelling was just a total way of life anyway um i as an adult now i realize like how important that was she would um share different lessons each time and sometimes they would be without us knowing it you know they would be targeted on something that we might have like a lesson that we had to learn you know whether it was sharing or listening listening to your parents or um you
know not not doing something dangerous she would share that specific story as a lesson yeah and then as we got older the stories would change and they would get a little bit more complicated so um you know you would learn something new or something at a higher level that you kind of had have a deeper understanding for um and so yeah it was just a special really special um especially now that a lot of elders have passed on that you were able to listen to stories mm-hmm mm-hmm.
Something I keep thinking is how conducive your time at Fish Camp as a kid was to all of this, you know, telling stories, your beadwork, you know, the dioramas you create now with Barbie, Fish Camp Barbie, all of that art. Yeah, it's a total reflection of the way I grew up. And, like, you know, I don't know if you can hear my dog. He's outside barking right now.
It's okay. Hopefully it isn't too distracting. But not only like the specific type of creation, I would say, but what's the thing that you do to create these items. It's born out of creativity, resilience, and just this spirit of making things that fit what your way of life is.
So, they would, my late grandma was a carpenter too, I mean, among other things, but she was able to create these stools like we had a stool probably for 40, 30 or 40 years that withstood time because she just created it in such a. You know, that it held up. And so, creating these little Barbies and it's just a reflection of that, I think, and it makes me feel connected to my late grandma. And I think it makes other people feel so special that there's something that reflects who they are.
And I just love being able to create that and helping people to, you know, have that connection, whether they're an adult or it's something that they could share with their kids and create for their kids.
Um but i've just a lot of people have shared with me how special it is to see that and see their way of life reflected even though they might be from a different culture from alaska or canada or lower 48 tribes and it just makes them they've told me that it's healing and that's just like i'm just blown away by that because I just created something that was special to me and it turns out it just hits a chord with people healing their inner child to see,
something that reflects who they are. Mm-hmm. As your dogs were just barking, I immediately remembered how you grew up in a dog-mushing family. And is there some connection with, you know, you owning dogs currently and also having grown up with dogs? Yeah, I feel comfortable around dogs. So, it's natural that I feel like I would have a dog as an adult.
But I love connecting to animals, and I just have that, I guess, ingrained relationship and comfort of being around dogs and being able to train them. Not that I'm, you know, haven't, not that I'm any good at it. But yeah, there's definitely a comfort and that dog mushing is really special to me. And I love seeing dog mushing flourish in Alaska and around the state. And I do, side note, I'm working on a dog mushing Barbie. And so my daughters and I, we have this sled, we started on it,
and then we have the little dogs that we created. We're going to make little harnesses. But it's just something that we're doing, and I just love dog mushing. Do you have any stories about dogs or maybe a dog that is from your childhood or maybe even adulthood? Um, one funny story, I guess, is when we were in battles, we would sometimes, like my dad would take out maybe two teams and be training two teams at a time, and so we would follow him. Mm-hmm.
And one time, my cousin Michelle and I, we were driving that second team. And then we were following my dad, and he's like off and like disappeared. And so we would have to, and the dogs knew where to go. But one time I was like dragging for, it seems like like half a mile. But my cousin Michelle had to stop and then I had to run, get up and run. And then get back on the sled. But that was just a super hilarious memory that I had of dragging on the sled.
You really have to be in control and hang on. I bet, yeah. Otherwise, you would have to walk a long way to catch up your team. Thankfully, she was riding with me and she was able to stop the sled and wait for me to catch up. But it's not like a snow machine where you stop and go. You just have, they have to wait for you. Yeah. Yeah. There seems like, and I've never dog mushed before, but I've watched quite a bit of it. And there seems like there's a synchronicity between the musher and the dogs.
You know, there's this relationship either unspoken or spoken at times where that doesn't exist with a snow machine. You know, there's a throttle and there's a way to stop. Yeah, totally. My dad, and we all had relationships, you know, with the dogs, and I have memories of the leaders mainly. That's the ones that you would, that it seemed like they would get the, I guess, the best treatment in a way.
Like, one treat would be if they got to come in the house, you know, we had, they were mostly, obviously, outside. But sometimes it would be able to come inside and I just remember those special times of connecting with those bugs. Getting back to Barbie, you know, I had this thought about your fish camp Barbie scenes. And please let me know if it's wrong or just off the mark. Barbie is, in so many ways, the symbol of fashion, beauty, and empowerment as it relates to Western culture.
But Alaska Native culture isn't Western culture. And Western culture has historically done terrible things to Native people and Native cultures. Does all that sound right? Yeah, I think that's definitely something that, you know, you don't see that. I mean, it's really promising that there's like the Wilma Mankiller Cherokee doll now, which is really awesome.
Um but yeah i think that it's it's not something you would definitely see and and that's not they they don't reflect your way of life um and it's very specific i get that you know like alaska native life is totally different than even some of the tribes i mean it is different way different than the tribes in the lower 48 or the native people in Canada, you know? Okay. And so, it's hard to, like, pick one. What are you going to do?
There's so many, you know, over 500 different tribes to choose from. So, of course, it's a challenge. But, yeah, so you just have to create it yourself. So, as you were just saying, Barbies have become more diverse, you know? This includes Asian Barbies, Black Barbies, and Native American Barbies. But personally, where do you draw the line between cultural appropriation and representation?
Um, I guess I kind of like, I think there's a good way to do things and collaborate with Native people and getting, you know, creating something that more people can get their hands on and love and appreciate. and find themselves reflected. But there's so many cultural appropriation examples that's just ingrained in the. And Western culture is, you know, stealing ideas and making things that, and making money off of Native people and our arts and our creations, our, you know, patterns, designs.
Unfortunately, it's just such a huge thing. It's just really sad to see that people take an advantage of that. So, I guess I just try to create things and put it out into the world to continue to show that our way of life exists. And I also encourage people to support Native artists. And so, I'm always, you know, people will come to me, where can I get, you know, this gloves or where can I find someone to, like, repair these slippers?
And I'm always referring them to Native artists and also encouraging them not to steal ideas. And then it's not hard to learn about cultural appropriation. You know, it's just a Google search. And people just don't understand that. So, it's just a constant battle, I feel, of educating people. And it just gets exhausting to educate people sometimes.
There was a teacher from a rural village who is non-native, and it's one of the people who come up to Alaska after they earn their degree, and then they come to Alaska to get the experience and the job. And then so, she lived in a village, and then she learned about beading, and then she moved out of the village. And then she created an account that was Athabaskan Beading, and people like shot her down so fast, you know, because it's not, that's just not appropriate to sell beadwork.
Even though you might have learned, which is something special, that she must have had a special connection with people for them to teach her. But, yeah, it's unfortunate how people will use our techniques and ideas for personal gain. Mm-hmm. Do you think Fish Camp Barbie can be a way to introduce Alaskan Native culture to people unfamiliar with it? Yes, definitely.
It's a big door that open for a conversation where, you know, I can share about what life was like growing up in fish camp and these different tools and all the things that we do with them, whether it's cutting fish or, you know, talking about cutting up moose meat or cutting strips of dry meat.
And then, you know, that might go on to different conversations about the different way of life that we have and helping people to understand what they might not have understood before and why things are important to us. And just getting a glimpse, I guess, into the lives of people who they might have had stereotypes about, you know, whether it's like being an alcoholic, that's a common stereotype, or being a criminal, you know, or being homeless.
You know, those different perceptions that they might have just because they haven't thought about it. It hasn't been in their world. So, seeing something different spurs them to be curious about it. And that's something that I found. And then even seeing the popularity of the Fish Camp Barbie has made them dig deep and read some of the comments and understand that their worldview might not be, they might not be, I guess, so knowledgeable about things that they have perceptions about.
And then they see what it means to other people of how important it is to have representation. And they might gain a respect for that, realizing how important representation is. Yeah. What does it mean for you to use Barbie so that she represents Alaska Native subsistence and life ways? I think that it just really... It's such a gift to be able to share our ways of life in this popular, I guess Barbie has just gotten more popular in the last year or so, last couple of years.
But, you know, in this mainstream media kind of way, I get to share something that is special to people, and it makes them feel good, makes them proud to be who they are, makes them proud to be from a certain village, or, you know, it makes them feel good.
And sometimes to see that themselves represented, they might not feel good about themselves if they just see how Barbie is now and living in this imaginary city, you know, and having this totally different experience and might not make you feel special because that's totally not your experience. You're used to, you know, a four-wheeler instead of a Corvette car with the, you know, top down and stuff like that.
Yeah. Yeah, I just love sharing that story and making people feel special and connected because there's so many people who are, even though they're Native, they might have grown up outside of Alaska or they might not have had the same experiences. And so I feel super grateful to be able to help them reconnect to their culture and be curious to learn about who they are and make them feel a connection.
I get a lot of questions about just how to do things, how to create things, how to repair beadwork. But for people who are, you know, not as connected, they just love and appreciate even a simple YouTube tutorial about how to do beaded edging. They super appreciate that. And that's why I continue to share our culture. Have you seen or heard any stories about the positive repercussions Fish Camp Barbie has had on maybe Native youth?
I think the main, I guess, example is, of course, myself, because I was once a Native youth. And this experience started when I was young and my grandma made me feel special and be proud to be someone who was from fish camp and from the village and to be Native. And it wasn't popular to be Native like 40, 50 years ago. And so, that memory has brought me a long way and created resilience in myself and makes me proud to be a Koyukon Athabaskan from Houslia and who is Alaska Native.
And then, of course, I created that for my daughters, mainly the younger one. My older daughter had Barbies, but I just happened to remember and create this memory with the younger daughter. And she really loves it. And that's something that she remembers and made her feel special. Yeah. And also was a way for me to share, because she grew up in Anchorage, it was a way for me to share what life was like and what camp was like and how hard we had to work.
Like most parents, we talk about our hard life. Um but yeah i i just uh so i see that in them um my daughters how they are filled up i guess instead of um feeling disconnected and uncomfortable with who they are i feel like they're more proud of who they are and it's not just the barbie but it's also bead work and And teaching them how to do beadwork and sewing and everything like that and creating things that makes them feel special.
And they love doing those learning and, you know, it just creates self-confidence and builds their self-esteem. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Throughout this conversation, we've talked a lot about media. Overall, how do you think Alaska Native cultures are represented in the media? In books, television shows, movies, podcasts, toys, since we're talking about Barbie? I think it's definitely getting better. I think people are getting a little bit more responsible with how they report on Native people.
And that's encouraging. So I still think that the way Alaskan Native people are perceived is there's room for improvement. Um and another thing that is a challenge is that there's less funding and i guess i don't know sponsorship or support for um more of our stories to be told uh in a good way and sometimes you know it's it's kind of hard to like tell a story in two minutes i mean there's definitely you have to put the work in to be able to do that.
But yeah, it's just, we need just a little bit more because we do have so many stories to share. Like, I'm just one person and I come from this place that represents just a small part of the whole culture and. Ways of life that we live throughout the whole state because we're such a huge state and there's so many differences even from one village to another.
And so we have a lot of stories to share and I hope that we get more stories told about Alaska Native people but also, I always encourage more Native people to share their stories, and there's so many different ways nowadays to share stories, whether it's writing or video or, you know, sharing, like, audio or on podcasts, you know. I just really support, try to support people who are wanting to share their story.
And I share how I've been able to create the blog and just ideas and ways to do it and kind of put that tool in their hands, I guess. Well, Angela, those are all my questions. I want to thank you for talking with me about your life, your art, and your culture. Well, thank you so much for having me. It's been a lot of fun to share about Fish Camp Barbie and our ways of life. And I just really want to encourage people to continue supporting Native storytelling and to create spaces.
Give space for people to share their stories and because we all need our stories to be told and to just love and appreciate who we are. We totally need that. We need some healing. Music. For more information about the Anchorage Museum, visit anchoragemuseum.org. This podcast was produced by me, Cody Liska, for the Anchorage Museum. With additional help from Julie Decker. Chatter Marks Music is produced by Keys. Music.