Music. In a way, the thing I'm proudest of is just following my instincts of what was going to be a good life for me and then letting it go organically from there. You know, one thing leads to another, and you can't really foresee it. But I know I am one very lucky person, and I just feel honored to have been able to have the experiences that I have. And if I can use them to help other people and help people understand what we do with dog mushing more.
I mean, that's why I love the job I have, like, on the cruise ships, because it's not about me. I don't care about that. Like, I want people, I want to relate to what these people know and are thinking of. So we connect on the level of the dogs. And then this women's thing, you know, I'm honored to have that connection, even if I didn't set out for having it.
But, you know, it's pretty cool when, you know, women can come up and acknowledge me for that and, you know, for helping be a trailblazer and make some headway. So that is a very cool part of this. That was dog musher Libby Riddles. She was the first woman to win the Iditarod. Back in 1985, she made the decision to push through a storm. A choice that would cement her place in history.
While others hunkered down, she gambled on her team's strength and her own resilience, forging ahead into whiteout conditions and brutal wins. It was a bold, calculated risk, and it paid off. But for Libby, just doing the Iditarod was a big deal. She says that as long as she did her best, and gave it 100%, she really didn't care where the chips fell. And part of that was breaking the race down, not thinking about the entire thousand miles, but just getting to the next checkpoint.
Manageable goals. That mindset, along with her deep connection to her dogs, helped her make history. Her deep relationship with her dogs helped carry her to victory in the 1985 Iditarod. And in the years since, she's become an advocate for the sport, working to help people understand what dog mushing is really about. These days, it can be tricky for people to grasp. Most of us see dogs as companions, not as athletes bred for endurance and work.
But those who rely on working dogs, like service animals, tend to understand the dynamic better. And when people see sled dogs in action, on a dog sledding tour, or in a race, they get it. They see the excitement, the energy, and the joy these dogs have for running. And they start to understand why mushing isn't just a sport, it's a way of life. So here she is, Libby Riddles.
Welcome to Chatter Marks, a podcast of the Anchorage Museum, dedicated to exploring Alaska and the circumpolar north through the creative and critical thinking of ideas, past, present, and future. My name is Cody Liska, and I'll be your host. Have you ever thought about what your life would have looked like if you hadn't moved to Alaska when you were 17? Every once in a while, but I don't spend a lot of time with that kind of thing because I did make up my mind to go one direction.
But gosh, I probably would end up having horses if I would have stayed in the Midwest. Okay, okay. What was it about Alaska that made you decide to move there at such a young age, well I mean I kind of grew up in the 60s you know and everybody was pretty kind of political and we were trying to like figure out different ways to live and, You know, it was like after Vietnam and less young people thought the world was pretty crazy.
And I mean, my friends and I, we were like reading the classics and we were also reading stuff like, you know, Farley Moat and Edward Abbey and, you know, and the classics. And, you know, we were, but anyway, we all just kind of figured out the way to live was in the wilderness because everybody else was crazy. And, you know, being from the Midwest, you know, there's kind of a tie to Alaska and I was used to winters and stuff like that.
And I thought, I want to go to the place of the most sanity, which means I'm getting as far out in the boonies as this girl can go. Okay. So. What was your frame of reference for Alaska before, you know, like you said, you know, this is the Vietnam era. You and your friends are all thinking about different ways to live. And that kind of directed you toward nature. You know, when did your mind go to Alaska?
And I guess meeting people that had been up there and, you know, I had all kinds of fantasies that weren't anywhere near accurate in a way about Alaska, but it was enough to get me up there, you know start working with what i had you know yeah but um i don't know i guess maybe that's just part of it is the mystique of not knowing exactly what you're gonna get but um i mean i'm such an animal person like in the midwest everybody's just
like shooting animals they just trophy hunt and i just like couldn't get it you know and um, And I just thought, like, for one, I want to live somewhere where animals still have a chance to roam free without being bothered so much, you know. I really like that aspect of it. I mean, that was kind of more what, I mean, I never said I would like to have a million sled dogs, but that's kind of the animal part, you know. So that's part of it, I think. And, yeah, it was such a great thing to have
done. And, I mean, I remember, like, I don't know, it was probably, I mean, I moved up pretty young, all right. But I'd been up here about a year and a half or something like that. And I'd been out to Stony River and helped build a little cabin with only just a MAC-1010 chainsaw. And, you know, I cut all the sod for the roof. And the nearest other people were 30, 40 miles up and down the Stony River.
And, you know, then I went back to Minnesota and here was some of my friends still just walking up and down the hallway with the same books. And, you know, I just felt like I was getting such a life experience, you know. And, you know, I wasn't really worried about getting education because I read like a maniac and I must be learning all the time, you know. So, but I wanted a different, I didn't want to go to college, I wanted to go to the bush, you know.
And then when you get to Alaska and just start really seeing how tough people are, it's like, holy respect, you know, it's like, wow, that's kind of, that's what I would like to be, you know, so... You spent your childhood in St. Cloud, Minnesota, and that's where you developed this attraction to nature and animals, right? I kind of grew up all over, but my mom's family is from Wisconsin. And, you know, even as a little kid, like we lived in a place by Madison that
was an old apple orchard. And we would go visit by the family's cabin up in Green Bay, Jacksonport up there. And my parents loved being out, you know, in nature too. So, I mean, I get this partly from them because they would take us out a lot, you know. And then I also grew up in Bellingham, Washington, dude. I mean, that's a beautiful place. It feels very similar to Alaska, too. Oh, yeah. And so skiing in the mountains.
My dad was teaching at the college there, and I got to go to this amazing campus school there. And then all the families would go up in the mountains together Christmas time and get Christmas trees and, you know, and then go out on Puget Sound all the time. And I mean, who wants to be on pavement when you got this stuff going on, you know? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And what is it about animals that you like so much?
I don't know. It just started like anybody's. We had cats and dogs and my mom tried to have canaries and birds when she had Siamese cats, which wasn't the best plan. But, you know, and my neighbors had a horse when I was a kid. And I mean, I just, I don't know. I mean, I'm probably a little bit like a lot of pretty serious animal people is that sometimes, you know, humans are a little bit trickier for me. And so for me, like animals I dial into maybe a little bit better.
But it's funny, I end up with dogs because I'm really such a cat person. Okay, okay. Huskies are perfect for me because, you know, they get a real different mindset than your average dog. In what way? Oh, you know, most dogs, they're just like looking at you and, oh, I need you and all this. And you're their whole world. Whereas like a sled dog, you're only half their world. And their other half of their world is doing their work. And they love their work. And they live for it, too, you know.
And so they get to show their stuff when they're working. So they can sometimes kind of take you or leave you. But I think it makes them more mentally stable and more nicer companions in a way because of that, because they're easy going that way. Yeah, that's really interesting because I grew up with dogs. My family had dogs. And when I got older, me and my girlfriend then, now my wife, we got a cat. And I never thought that I would like cats, but it turns out that I'm a cat person.
And I like dogs, too. So I'm also an animal person, but we have two cats. And what you said just a minute ago, how, you know, huskies, they'll spend a little bit of their time with you, but then they're off doing their own thing. I love that about cats, where they're not always, you know, on you. You're not their entire world. They have other business to take care of. And then you and them meet kind of at these crossroads every once in a while.
Well, and I think people that don't like cats or don't get cats, like they're expecting a cat to be like a dog. And it's a whole different mindset in a cat. And if you understand that, you know, that they know they rule the world and you're supposed to do everything they say, then you get along fine, you know? Yeah, yeah. Do you have a...
Maybe a first memory or a memory that sticks out where, you know, you're young and you have a pet or there's an animal around you that you really connected with? Well, I do kind of just sort of epically remember my parents taking us to a farm somewhere. And I was real small, like five or smaller maybe, and to a barn where there was a bunch of like purebred standard collies and the collie puppies. And I don't know, that was kind of epic because I still remember it, you know, really vividly.
But, you know, but ever since I was, you know, had even a conscious mind practically as a little kid, you know, we had our own animals. Like I grew up with Springer Spaniels. And I mean, you look at any of our old family pictures, it's me in the front with Pogo the Springer Spaniel, you know, and we had four different Springer Spaniels, all named after my parents' favorite comic, the Pogo cartoon. And it was Pogo 1, 2, 3, and 4, and anyway.
That was, yeah, so I liked our dogs, but being a cat person, everybody's dogs were always chasing our cats, and I thought it was kind horrible so okay okay yeah and you're a self-taught musher how did you do that at 17 was it oh i don't know that i'm entirely self-taught i mean every musher who does it has to go out there and learn some things the hard ways but um sure yeah no i had some good mentors um you know uh gosh in the 70s there, Patty Friend and Rod Perry and Alan Perry,
that's who I got some of my first dogs from. And, you know, you've got to find somebody to get a sled from. And all these people that I was meeting, you know, I'd start getting advice from. And, you know, and that helps some. But then, you know, you do it for a little bit. I think it's good to get tips from people to start, but then you've got to figure out your own way and your own style of doing it too.
Like, I realized pretty quick that, you know, some people's style wasn't going to work for me. Could you talk more about that? You know, what styles worked for you and didn't work for you? Well, I mean, I remember some people would have like a training schedule that was so strict. It's like, you got to get out no matter what's going on today. You got to do a 50 mile run, you know? I don't know. When I lived up in Teller, we'd go out sometimes in real stormy weather just to brain train the dogs.
But there's sometimes when it's just plain stupid to do that. You know, so, you know, so being a little bit more flexible and, you know, working with what you got or maybe your dogs didn't have the greatest week and they don't need to go that far. You got to adjust it and make it more flexible. So for me, I realize I'm somebody who doesn't want that strict schedule. I got to go a little bit by what I see and feel with the dogs, you know.
But having the schedule for a rough outline, that's how I would try to take it, you know.
And I think where it really kicked in for me in a way is just this is a little bit off on a tangent but just after I won the Iditarod like everybody has this idea oh now you got to get back there and win a bunch more and all this and you know to me it's my version of success is a little different than other people's and I just want to have a good time with my dogs we came in dead last and I know I did my best, I don't mind. That's fine. And I did that once in a race in Wyoming.
That was a long story. But I got a lot of respect for it, too, because we even showed up. I mean, the time we had even just getting there, this is a whole other story in itself. But, you know, driving down the highway, 70 below zero, truck transmission freezes up, stuck in Whitehorse, two weeks at 40 below zero, not training. Oh, man. I'm getting to the race start about four hours before the vet check. So I was like, cool, we survived.
Yeah, yeah. That's a good way of looking at it. Yeah. What is your version of success? Well, like I said, I mean, it's really cool to win. It's cool to show you can do as good as anybody. But to me, it was more about the dogs, you know, and I loved trying out different styles of racing so I could learn more about the dogs and how to work with them. You know, like I ran the Open World Class Championship for Rondi twice, and I came always in the back. But, boy, I learned so much.
And, you know, getting to go over and race in Europe and meeting all these people from different countries that are running dogs and racing all up and down in the mountains. And, I mean, to me, doing that kind of stuff and traveling around, we did pretty good at those races, too. But, I don't know, Iditarod, to do Iditarod, it's such a big deal. Like, just when I ran my very first race in 1980, I just kind of made a deal with myself.
It's like, you know, as long as I do my best and know that I gave it 100%, I really don't care where the chips fall. But, you know, you have that attitude. A lot of times you're going to do better anyway, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's really positive thinking. Do you think that that quality is specific to you and your family? Or are there other family members that also feel that way and think that way? Oh, gosh, no, we're a bunch of hard-pressed optimists in my family.
This is something you got to work at. But I don't know, it's like a philosophy. I guess I kind of get this from working with animals in a way, too. But, you know, you learn a lot doing this kind of stuff. I did a lot. Or just even if you just run dogs for fun. You have so many little decisions and responsibilities all the time.
You know and you I mean the stuff I learned like like I mean I tell this in my cruise ship talks all the time but it's absolutely true it's like you know learning how to take on something that big gave me the skills to take it on in other realms you know like breaking it up like not looking at I gotta get all the way to know him you're just looking at getting to the next checkpoint you know and breaking things down you know and so you know you got to learn a
bunch of things like that and then how to keep yourself mentally entertained when you're out on the trail like that I mean plus how to be really dialed in to the dogs like you know and be aware of your surroundings like I don't know I know some people like I've met I'm trying to think of who that was but I'm like you know geez if you if you were out in the woods you wouldn't even see the bear before it was like eating you,
you know, cause they're not dialed into the surroundings, you know? Yeah. Yeah. What was your first experience working with sled dogs like? Um, Oh, kind of craziness up on flat top mountain. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Like we're really bad place to start running dogs. Cause you know, all uphill on the way up, all downhill on the way back. And yeah, yeah, no, it was kind of crazy, but, um, what a cool place to live though, up there on the mountain. I mean, I had never lived in the mountains before.
I just loved it up there. But, oh, the dogs, they'd fight, they'd turn around. I mean, but I don't know. You know, I think also, too, like people would kind of, when you get started, they're giving you sort of reject dogs, which doesn't help either. Yeah. What's that about? Why would they give you reject dogs? Because you need to kind of earn your keep? Because they don't want them. Okay. Oh my gosh, I got people's fighters and stuff like that. Oh, my dogs used to fight so bad.
I'm not kidding you. So, geez, you learn the hard way. And then I learned, boy, I don't care how tough those fighters are. You don't want to breed that kind of dog because they'll pass it on. Okay, okay. But anyway, a lot of people have to learn this stuff the hard way. But, oh, I don't know. I did get some good dogs. In fact, my gosh, I'm going through Boxole photos and actually found a letter from Rick Swenson. Okay. Who sold me a super skookum lead dog named Bobo and...
You know, this is a dog that was pretty shy. He was super shy, actually, but he did better with women. And I spent as much on that lead dog as I did for my old orange Dodge. Okay. But it was a great investment, and I had the dog's bloodlines for years to come, and that was a really super good dog that helped me get started. That is pretty amazing. You know, Rick Swenson is known as the king of the Iditarod. Yeah, I mean, it was really cool.
And that made me feel like I was more ready for my first Iditarod, you know, having that experienced dog. What do you think was the most important thing you learned about mushing in those early days? Gosh, I don't know. I was learning so much all around, you know, how to be out in the bush and, you know, learning different dogs and, you know, learning how to camp out in the cold and stuff like that.
I don't really know in a way how to answer that. I mean, it was all just kind of a gradual osmosis. But I feel like I didn't really know very much those first years. But I think, you know, it didn't really take me long, though, to figure out this thing of that, yeah, other people are going to show me things.
I can ask them questions. But a lot of this I figure out on my own because I want my own way of doing it, you know So, so that feeling was kind of strong from the start, you know And I think that kind of helped me kind of make my own path, you know Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Do you think that you are the type of learner, the type of person who experiences life that you're able to absorb a lot and you're able to retain a lot?
Yeah, I don't know. I think I was young enough, you know, that I wasn't thinking too hard about any of this stuff. I was just kind of going with doing it and enjoying the heck out of it and learning as I go. And, you know, trying to hang out with people like Jerry Riley and stuff like this You start feeling kind of wimpy So you gotta be like, I want to be tough like them Look at how they're doing it, you know?
Yeah So, yeah, and the Alaska ladies that I'd heard of too Were like so crazy tough, you know? Yeah I mean, I've met some of these gals out in the bush And just had a lot of respect So that was cool, later on when you were picking your team were there any specific qualities you looked for in a dog.
Oh i mean jeez when i picked my team i mean like my winning team you mean sure yeah yeah, well with that team it was pretty easy i mean because we didn't have too many spare dogs in fact i could have taken 16 and i just took 15 because that's what i had that i thought was real solid you know so it was pretty obvious who my team was by then but i know i've had other races where it's a real hard decision between like taking a eight-year-old
dog that you know is bomb proof or a younger dog that looks really good but isn't really proven and boy sometimes i didn't make up my mind till i was on my way to a race on the last dog you know wow last minute Sometimes, but, well, kind of, but, you know, we keep, most of us, we keep like records all winter, but we keep it in our heads too. But, you know, sometimes when it comes down to that, it's a little bit of a gamble. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. How do you form a bond with your sled dogs?
Just like with any other dog. But I think with the husky, you've got to realize some of them are pretty shy. You know, they can be that way just sort of naturally. Like I meet people that say, oh, I have a husky. He must have been abused because it's so scared of men or whatever. But they are just kind of a shyer breed. So, you know, if I have a dog who's not sure of me, you know, I know some good tricks in body language.
You know, get down on their level, keep my back to them, or sometimes I just ignore them, you know, until they calm down and realize that they can come to me a little bit, you know? So, you know, that's part of it. And I think just as we work together, they realize every time we work together, okay, she's not totally chaos. We, you know, she's not going to yell at us if we screw up, you know, or not too bad.
And it's, like I said, it's a lot like earning the trust of a cat, because it cracks me up when people think we force these dogs to do this, because they're the ones in control in some ways. And you got to earn their trust and their respect that, that, you know, and show them, you know, hey, I'm not an idiot. And I understand you guys and how to work with you. And oh, man, I give them a lot of positive reinforcement. They take a turn on telling them thank you, you know?
I mean, and that builds up, so... Do you have any stories of, you know, a dog that started out as Wiley or had a lot of energy and you did employ some of those techniques and the dog, you know, ended up coming around? Well, what comes to mind on that one is my winning lead dog, Dugan. Okay, okay. You know, he was not shy, but he was very stubborn knucklehead, and so was his dad. Okay.
And he started out in lead at a very young age, and, you know, that's sometimes a lot of pressure on a young dog. And so his way of showing that he was getting overpressured, you know, like we used to, he got ha for left, G for right. We used to give him a command of a ha, come. Like, if you're on the trail and a moose is coming your way, you can get that lead dog to turn your team all the way around. Okay, so Dugan was a bit of a wise-ass. And when he was stressed or tired, he's like, ha?
Do you mean ha, come? And he's turning the whole damn team around. Okay. You know, so he was like a high-stress dog, you know, like this. So, oh, my God, I got some good stories on this. Like, um, so for one, I took them on the Cusco 300 with 18 dogs strong and the turd turned me around like that on the, after I left Kelskeg and I had to go all the way back to Kelskeg to get help to turn the 18 dog team around and get started again.
And we lost 40 minutes, but oh gosh, I just got to tell one story about Joe up in Teller though. Yeah. You know, we'd run the, like if I did the Cusco, then I'd turn over the dogs to him and he was taking them in the Iditarod. And I told him, hey, Dugan, turn me around, you know. And Joe's like, you gotta have control. So he hooks up the dogs and about 15, 20 minutes later, I hear this big commotion.
There's a 18 dog strung out around my trailer because Dugan turned them around and brought them all the way back and he couldn't stop either, you know? Yeah. But I had to be, I mean, I learned a lot because like I get so frustrated and if you get even a little bit frustrated with this kind of a dog, they're doing twice as bad, you know? So I had to learn to stay totally chill, but just get my way,
you know? So if he even turned his head around where he's going to look to turn around, half the time I don't even set the snow hook. I just make him go the direction I want without any stress. And so we finally got that figured out. But that was a good training lesson for me to have early on in a way because that's how it is. You've got to really know how to keep cool with these dogs because they, especially once they know you, they know everything about you. You can't lie to your dog.
They smell it on you. Do they see it in the way your body moves? And if you're pissed off, they're going to be edgy, you know? So that doesn't work. Yeah. What's the most valuable lesson you've learned from your dogs? Oh, I could probably write a whole book about that because you learn all kinds of things. But I don't know. I think dogs are just so well aligned for people. I mean, it's such a fascinating history that we have together and them coming from the wolf. Mm-hmm.
We all get so much from our dogs. All of us do. I mean, it's interesting to me how they've kind of become our whole emotional support system more than like real working dogs used to be kind of helping us out in other kinds of ways. But being canines, their social structure is a little different than us primates. And a lot of people prefer the dog society for that reason, you know?
So, you know, that social thing we get from dogs in a way I think is really cool, the way that they connect with us, you know, in such a non-judgmental and, you know, generous way in a lot of ways. And, you know, to be able to combine that with being out in Alaska's beautiful country and, you know, and the feeling of satisfaction you get from the skill it takes to do it and the work it takes to do it, because, damn, it's work, you know, every day, you know, it's work. Yeah, I bet. Yeah.
But I don't know. I'm just glad I went this route because I enjoy it a lot. And yes, I've learned a lot from the dogs and from being out in the country and from a lot of my mushing friends as well. You made this decision during your 1985 Iditarod win to go through the storm rather than around it. That decision ultimately won you the race, how much were you thinking about what could go wrong and how much were you confident in your abilities and the abilities of your dogs?
Well, there was a lot of thought that went into that decision, but, you know, and I was very cautious in a way, like before I headed out there, I went and talked to one of the village elders, you know, I called Noam and was able to talk to Joe and my brother was up there and Ray Lang, who's another dog musher and, um, you know, and, but, um, and then Dick Mackey, he was out there as the race marshal and he's a pilot.
And he said, you know, it's probably just only a storm on the ground, probably, you know, and the elder, Franklin Pernipchuk, he was saying, well, you might get lucky and it dies down at night, or you can see the light sequoiaque. Yeah. You know, I know for real, like, you know, I mean, the thing that pushed me up that trail was that I'd basically been rebuilding my dog team for four years to get back on the race. And I was serious because I'd worked my butt off to get there, you know.
And right now I think, oh, man, wouldn't that be horrible to be sitting here thinking, oh, I wonder what would have happened if I would have mushed out in the storm that year. I mean, that's what our dogs were trained for. Like, you know, after I won that year, people would, like Swenson and those guys, they would fly their dogs to Unalakleet and mush up to Gnome. So their dogs were ready for blizzards, you know.
Okay, okay. The dogs we had were every day in blizzards, practically, in Teller, you know. And so they mentally could really handle that. So I was pretty sure of the dog team, but I knew I had to be careful because I figured I was the weak link.
But but i was very careful and uh you know i'd actually learned the hard way uh one time i think probably the year before that like 79 maybe uh um or no no the early 80s 81 or 82 um joe and myself and my norwegian friend and her norwegian friend we ran two dog teams and with two passengers from Teller to Nome. And on a good trail, you can do it in nine days. It took us, I mean, nine hours. It took us three days to get there. It was so stormy.
And the first day, we were following the road and my runner plastic was wearing off and I'm having to run behind the sled all the time. And I got drenched in sweat. And then we couldn't find the cabin. We didn't get far enough. So we had to sleep in our sleds. And I was so wet and cold that night, you know? So that's what taught me I got to change my clothes in the sled bag when I was out there at Shaktulik, you know? Yeah. You know, and experiences like that at Mushing and Teller.
But, yeah, it was... It was a really good dog team, and it was a good joint effort, you know. Both Joe and I putting our effort into that team for a couple years. We had a really nice one. Mm-hmm. Do you think you would make that same decision today to push through the storm? Oh, heck yeah. Now that I'm this old geezer musher who goes all the five, six miles and has to come home and take a jacuzzi, heck yeah, I would go. So maybe not today, but if it was back then and I had the choice again,
I would go again. Yes, of course. That's great. How often, if at all, do you still think of that team, those dogs? I don't know. I've been going through old photos, so it's kind of cool to have some shots of that. But I guess my philosophy is, is I love the ones I'm with, you know, and I got a nice little pack out here. I only have a few dogs of my own, but I borrowed a few for the winter, and they've just kind of nicely come together as a nice little pack of dogs.
And that's kind of my focus right now. I came back from a little six-mile run here before I talked to you, and oh my gosh, it's advanced sled dog riding right now. Even with just five dogs, it's so icy and crazy, but a lot of people can't run at all. So I'm just, I can't, I mean, I almost want to go take another team out now. I'm just like kind of chomping at the bit with all the crappy winter weather we've had this year. Yeah, yeah. Kind of just now viewable.
Music. Something I was thinking when I was reading about your Iditarod win, you know, and you pushing through that storm is, you know, It felt like, and maybe I'm giving you emotions that didn't exist, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. But it felt like you really just trusted your instincts and the instincts of your dogs. How often do you trust your instincts? Oh, it's not just your instincts. So you've got to be trusting on your experience of the past and your preparation.
Sure, yeah. You know, I mean, like the clothes I had and stuff like that. I mean, you know, lots of little different adaptations when I'm in my training and starting to get cold here and there. I got that all figured out. So when I'm on a Ditterod, it's there, you know. So the preparation and the mindset, the mindset's super valuable, I think. And it was kind of interesting to me psychologically how that all worked. But, you know, but it was interesting.
It was like I had a part of me that would talk to myself and tell me, okay, now do this. You know, now do this. And I wasn't feeling emotions of any kind, really. I was just very zen, like, we got to do this right now. And this is what the focus is. Okay. You know? How would you describe your mindset? Um, I don't know.
It's kind of hard to describe in a way because like, like I said, I wasn't really scared, even though I probably should have been, but I was just in this total focus mode, like just total focus because survival demanded that, you know? I knew I had to be really careful. So you get really dialed in when it's like that, you know? But I think I always in the back of my head Just had this idea like, Yeah, we can do this, or we are damn well going to try anyway.
You know, I've been looking at that Norton Sound with a team a few years later that I was not so sure that those guys would be keeping me safe if things got gnarly out there. But that particular team, you know, they know they're going back up to Nome, going home. I mean, they just start feeling better once you get to Unalakleet and rolling with it. So, I mean, geez, when we were going for the finish line up by White Mountain, I kept flipping over on the sled.
The wind was so bad and the dogs would keep looking back at me like, what's the holdup, creep, you know? How often do you do that with your dogs where you kind of humanize them, you know, in their thoughts, in their speech? I don't know. Oh, I don't know that I humanize them because to me, they're their own dog selves. But you can't help but, oh my gosh. I mean, gosh, I just, she passed away in October. But for a couple years, I had Pete Kaiser's winning Iditarod lead dog, Morrow.
And she was one of the coolest, smartest, most communicative dogs. That was as good of a companion as she was a lead dog. Okay. And, oh, my gosh, it killed me to lose that dog. But, I mean, she was just like people. I mean, that dog was so smart. She was so cool. For someone who, maybe like myself, who might not fully understand that, could you, you know, explain that when you're saying Morrow was kind of like people? Yeah.
Well, she's just one of these dogs, like if she needs something, she's going to come over and look at you and you'll figure it out. And I love how she has, like, she's a great lead dog. She won the idea to run, but she has her own very strong sense of values as well. You know, and I respect that, you know, like one time when we were going to have to pass the Malmute team, the guy pulls his leaders over to the side, but the real dogs are still right on the trail and they're like 150 pounds each.
And I'm asking Mara to pass them and she's like, oh, hell no, let's turn around and go back. And she would have had the better plan because sure enough, they jumped the second dog. I did get him by, but, you know, and I just respected that about her. So she just had a very strong personality and interacted with me a lot. And, you know, like I said, just, I mean, just imagine how smart they get as these lead dogs that do these races in a way.
The decisions the dogs have to make and the responsibilities they have and all the, you know, the things that have happened to them. Like, I mean, that really just fills out that dog in a whole different way, I think. And people that have working dogs that work with them get this, you know, whether it's a seeing eye dog or a hunting dog or, I mean, horses, it's the same, you know, you, you know, you learn each other. You know, and have this great communication.
Did winning the Iditarod change your life at all? Oh, heck yeah. You know, but only so far as I wanted to let it. What does that mean? Oh, I don't know. I guess, again, you know, like I could have probably done more with it, you know, promoting myself or things like this. But I was living up in the village and really enjoying my life up there. And, you know, I got to do some really cool things, you know, flying out and doing commercials and this and that.
But, you know, to me, it wasn't something I was going to really change my way of life about. but, I don't know, and then, you know, one thing leads to another, and, uh, Here I end up working on cruise ships all these years later. That's kind of a different lifestyle, but it sort of fits to you. Okay, okay.
Have there been any moments, maybe with the cruise ship work, maybe with the Iditarod win, and what it could have meant, you know, for your personal life trajectory, if you would have followed it, you know? Do you ever feel like those are at odds a little bit with, you know, this post-Vietnam mentality, you know, that you came from, where you and all your friends, again, you're thinking about different ways to live?
Yeah, but it's an evolution, though. You know, I mean, I had all these ideas, but I didn't know anything about what I was getting into up here. And, you know, I mean, I just learned some realities and then adapted and changed my viewpoints as I went along. You know, like, you know, like I said, coming up because I thought, you know, this is a place where the animals could run free and all this stuff.
Well, then you go to the village and next thing you know, you're eating cranes and all this other bizarre animals and people, you know, hunt and kill things because that's how they do it up there. And for me, that was a little bit shocking at first, but I was like, yeah, this is what's real up here, you know. So, again, you adapt as you learn these things, I think. And it's been quite an education and still is in a lot of ways. What other viewpoints do you think have changed over the years?
Oh, I don't know. I mean, dog mushing itself has evolved quite a bit in a lot of ways. I mean, a lot of people ask, you know, what's changed in the race? But I don't know. I think a lot of things have changed, but it's kind of cool to see how it evolves. And really nice to see a lot of young people still in it. And, oh, my gosh, the tours, any kind of dog sled tours these days, that's a thing that's really keeping the sport alive in a lot of ways.
Yeah. How do you think the sport of mushing has evolved since your win, be it technical gear or rules or, you know, something else?
Oh just in so many ways like um i don't know it used to be most of the people that raced it were people that actually lived out in the bush and used their dogs or you know work in the bush as well as racing you know and um it was a little more rustic i guess and um you know nowadays like i said most people are going to be having a tour gig in the summer or winter in addition to their racing is the only way to be able to do it so it's kind of a more metro mushing kind of a thing in a way but
but uh i don't know the tours are good in a way though because it turns a lot other people on to the sport and helps them appreciate it but yeah no i'm it this is a sport that's constantly evolving as far as equipment and dog care and and ways of training and. And, boy, they have now the speed races are all the German short hair pointer crosses. And, you know, used to be able to have like long distance and sprint mushing dogs. And they were both kind of huskies.
But anymore with the sprint races, it's all pretty much those pointer dogs winning it. So that's a different kind of a thing. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I think it's spread to a lot of places in the world. which I think's neat. Do you miss anything about competitive mushing? I don't so much anymore. Boy, the first couple of years when I quit, it was tough, though.
I used to kind of just half joke to people at the starting line, you better duct tape my hands behind my back because I'm going to push somebody off their sled and steal their team. You know? Oh, yeah, it's tough. It was tough, but it's kind of intense to race like that. You got to kind of be totally focused on that. And I realized I kind of needed to get after some other things, too, not just racing. So, yeah. And what are those other things? Like not being broke all the time from being
a dog musher, basically. Okay. So that's when I got a mortgage. That's when I kind of got a real job and went into doing the Princess Cruises thing. But it's great to see. I mean, in a way, running dogs recreationally, perfect for me, you know, because it takes off all the pressure. You still get the fun. Um, I just love doing it, whether I'm competing or doing an expedition or doing tours, like I did the tours up on the glacier the first couple of years they had that thing in Juneau.
And I mean, talk about a wild experience there, but it's just been a kick to do all these different things with the dogs. And then I've done some, you know, judging of races and traveled in different exhibitions in different countries and stuff with sled dog stuff. And I mean, it's been some really cool experiences. Do you still stay in touch with other mushers? Some. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely, we're just a big mushing family. And some of these people I've known for a really long time.
You know, and veterinarians and race officials and pilots. I mean, it's, you know, not just the mushers. There's a whole bunch of other people involved in this too. And I love Facebook in a way because it's helped me reconnect with a bunch of village people that I met. Okay. Yeah. I remember one guy, he was just a little kid when I ran my first, I did around 1980. Yeah, and then we connected on Facebook and some other, like my friend in Cal Tag and some others.
Or even some of these people's kids or whatever. So that's kind of cool. Yeah. Some lasting connections you make when you pull into some village three in the morning and somebody used to take you to their house and feed you and let you dry all your stinky musher stuff at their house and all that. I mean, that's a lifelong friend that's going to do that. Yeah, yeah. Do any of those people, do any of those lifelong friends come to mind? Oh, I don't know. There's, I don't know.
Some of these people I've kept in touch with and... I think about too many. Well, I just connected with my friend, Bob Sept. He was the head vet on the Iditarod the year that I won. So he took care of my dog's knee surgery the last couple of years. He had two of them, and I brought him some blueberry jam, and now we're kind of back in touch. That's cool. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, it's like you could go anywhere in the world where there's a dog musher
probably and be welcome at their place. So it's because it is kind of like this just big community. Yeah, yeah. As the first woman to win the Iditarod, how did you feel about breaking that barrier? I frankly didn't even think twice about it. Really? Okay. I really didn't. I mean, no, I mean, to me, I just wanted to be another dog musher. I didn't even know what the big deal was all about in a way. I was like, what, is this some kind of surprise that women are tough too, you know?
Yeah. So, I mean, and I guess I'm kind of, I mean, that's part of who I am too is, I mean, even as a kid is like, somebody says this is boy stuff, tough. I'm doing it anyway because I like it, you know.
Um but i guess too it you know that it it did hit me that hey this is a really good thing you know that i have done you know and the first time i ever really realized that it was going to be a deal i was in white mountain 100 miles from the finish line you know nobody else in the checkpoint so looking pretty good but these two eskimo gals about a foot shorter than i am come sidling over to me, and one of them holds her hand in front of her mouth, and she says, you're gonna beat all the men.
And I was like, dang, I guess I am. And they thought that was really cool. And I was like, oh, okay. You know, but, oh, in Nome, it was a lot of fun. I was staying with my dear friends, Ray and Carla Lang, and we'd be in their house, and And Carla would answer the phone and she'd be like, she'd hold the phone over her chest and she'd be like, it's that magazine, The Star. They want you to give us a picture of you wearing a dress in the dog yard.
And we'd just all laugh hysterically and say, goodbye. I mean, there was some cool stuff, too, but, you know, that's kind of helped me keep a mellow attitude towards winning in a way, too, because we laughed at it a little bit. Did you encounter any challenges or pushback as a woman in mushing? If I did, I didn't let it get to me. Okay. That's cool. You know, and it's a pretty democratic crew in a lot of ways, too.
Like, as far as the guys go, you know, like, I remember running the Cusco 383, I think it was. And, you know, I came in like fifth place or something like this. So when you beat these guys, they got to be giving you a little better respect, do you think, you know? Sure, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, no, I think it was real camaraderie out there.
Like, I mean, I remember being in the front of my first Iditarod because some people were going to take layovers, you know, earlier back in those days and I was still going. But I was like in third place with Terry Adkins and Joe May. And I think Herbie Neckpuck was in there somewhere too, but he was ahead of them.
But anyway, there was a Y in the trail. And they stopped there to wait for me so that whichever way they decided to go, because they weren't sure which way to go, that I would go the same way as them and not get screwed up. Well, heck, I got there and Miss Riddles had the maps and could figure out with my maps which way to go. So, you know, that was just cool getting to run with those guys right from the front. And I mean, people for the most part were very cool.
Do you think that your win changed the perception of women in sled dog racing? Because before it, before that win, it was pretty much a male-dominated sport, right? It depends. Don't tell that to Roxy Wright. Or, you know, there have been gals in there like Natalie Norris and, you know, gals who were out there doing, oh, Lena Charlie. Don't get me started. She's so tough. And Susan Butcher had come in, I think, in the top five before I won it.
And so I think everybody's expecting that she would be the first woman to win. So if anything, that was the big surprise there. Um, but, um, and I think it, it definitely has had an impact. Um, gosh, Joe Reddington thought I was the best thing that happened to the race because it just brought such great publicity to it. And I mean, I still on the cruise ship get a few people like that start, that tell me they got started into dogs or were inspired by the story.
But it's especially cool for me to know a handful of my mushing women friends that, you know, started because they read my book, you know. But, you know, I was like the eighth woman to ever run the race. So I definitely feel like they'd already shown that women could do this. And it's such a cool sport in a way because it's not just men and women. You got like 18-year-old kids out racing the grandmasters in their 60s or sometimes even older.
You got village people. You got like professional people that might even come rent a team. And everybody has different skills, but they come together in doing this in all these different ways. So it's a very unique sport for that, plus the combination of working with the animals. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Do you know if your Iditarod victory meant something or symbolized anything to people outside the world of mushing? Oh my gosh, women all over the place.
I mean, like I say, I still get this when I do my talks on the ship and stuff. Like, even if they didn't hear of it back in the day, like, I'll get some lady that comes up to me and she'll be like, And, you know, I was the first woman sheriff in my town, and I know what you're talking about. Or they were in the Air Force, and they were the only gal. And they just have a lot of, you know, besides the connection we make with dogs, I get a lot of this, you know.
Especially from, you know, us older gals who can kind of appreciate that it was really different back in the 80s, you know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What was the first thing you did after you crossed the finish line and you realized you won? Oh, I just got mobbed by people and was doing interviews and seeing my dogs and it really didn't even sink into me for about a week. Really? Okay. Yeah. And what was that like after that week had passed and, you know, it really, it hit you?
And again, it was just like all this experiential stuff coming on and I'm just kind of rolling with it. It could be worse problems than having done something like that. But I guess I have to retract this a little bit because I do remember when the thought first crossed my mind. I mean, even 30 miles from the finish line, you know, with nobody in sight, I'm like, I couldn't believe I'm going to win.
I mean, it doesn't even have room in my brain for this. I'm just getting to the finish line because you know what? On my very first Iditarod, I come around Cape Nome. It's like, yay, I can see the lights of Nome. And then it's like, I'm starving. I'm looking in my sled bag for five seconds for something to eat. I look back up again and we are off the trail. We have lost the trail and are up in the fish camps within sight of Nome.
So I guess that's why I just don't let my guard down with the Iditarod. It's like, it ain't over until it's over. I could get hit by a truck or something could happen. But I was wearing my Walkman back in the day, you know, because sometimes you could get the KNOM radio. And I listen to music all the way up. I love music. It keeps me sane. And they put on a hobo Jim Iditarod Trail song. And it gets the part where no sled tracks in front of me and no one on my tail.
I did, I did, I did the Iditarod Trail. And I'm like, damn, this is me he's talking about. And that's when it finally hit me, I'm going to win this thing, you know, but like I said, with all this stuff that happened, it took a little while to totally hit me, but that was the first thing. How do you think you would have done if it weren't for that storm, if the weather had been clear? Have no idea.
You know, I don't spend time really thinking about that. I know it was a heck of a good dog team, but I think it's part of what pushed me out of there, too, in a way. Like, I know Rick Swenson's team was faster than mine, you know, so everybody's always looking over their shoulder for that guy. So, you know, I was just glad I got ahead of him while I could, but, um, and I made some good moves early on in that race too, before the storm, you know, like, um.
Going up to Eagle Island, I got stubborn, more stubborn than my lead dog. And it was kind of not even intentional, but, you know, I told you how stubborn he was about turning me around. So I knew this dog, I have to always get my way or he's going to get me. Right. So going up the Yukon River, 40 below or something, we come up and here's this Blackburn Lodge. I didn't even know it was there, that people were going to be there. They have food there.
So there's a handful of sleds already parked in there. And while I'm thinking about, do I stop or go, Dugan decides on his own, oh, hey, let's go get some soup. And I'm like, oh, hell no. We are going down the trail, dude. We are definitely going down the trail. So I had no idea that nobody else had gone. But we kept pushing that night because it was too damn cold to ever stop. And I got to the checkpoint, Eagle Island at 5 in the morning and trudge up the hill and knock on the door.
The guy was like, the first musher's here and it's a girl. It's crazy. But so that set me up. My dogs had a good 12-hour rest there on that Yukon. And so, you know, we could really boogie. And, oh, I was so tired. And Unalakleet, I think I might have even got toothpicks to prop my eyes open at the table after they fed me. Because I didn't want to go to sleep. I wanted to leave after four hours. And so all those little things kind of helped set me up, you know, to where.
And then just arriving in Shaqtulik when there was still a few hours of daylight, you know. That made all the difference, too, so things lined up well. After your win in the Iditarod, you became an advocate for the sport. What does it look like to advocate for a sport like mushing?
Well i mean i think people again have people that don't know anything about the sport i think it's kind of tricky sometimes because um you know people these days like your dogs are sleeping in their bed with them and oh my god you keep your dog outside they think even this is horrible you know um but i think what is really helpful is when they see the tours themselves and they see these dogs jumping four feet up in the ground because they can hardly wait
to go do another run even though they've been doing the same stupid circle all day all summer yeah you know uh for tours and they still love it and people see how friendly and happy and uh fit these dogs are and i think it gives them a whole different idea so they can see that then i kind of fill in the background on these dogs to people, too, you know, and, you know, and how they, how that is in their blood to work, just like it is for a herding dog to herd, you know, and they need to do it.
But, but then there's things that I tell them, too. It's like, you know, if a dog can't make a race team, that's a perfect dog for doing tours, because who cares how fast it is if you're doing a tour. So, those things dovetail nicely, and that explains to people that, no, we're not just, you know, puppy milling and, you know, doing that kind of thing out here with these dogs. It's pretty solid, I think, that way.
So, yeah, and just... I don't know, just trying to show how happy the dogs are and that they do get to come in the house and they get to free run. We keep our dogs tethered, which some people have a problem with. And, you know, if you've got a pet dog that's tethered out and not getting to do a lot of things, that's pretty horrible. But I'll tell you what, huskies, they like being with other dogs. Tethering them seems to be the safest way to keep them.
You know, I've lived in places where if I have a six-foot-high fence, that sucker's going to be full to the top of snow by spring. So fences aren't always the answer. And our dogs, they get to run so much that, you know, I'm free running. And, you know, I've got a big fence for my dogs to exercise in. But I do it supervised, though, because these dogs are, they can be a little high test and, you know, put a bunch of dogs together. You could get a fight or something.
And huskies, some of them actually like a good fight every once in a while. So, yes. What's something about dog mushing that most people don't understand? I don't know. Maybe just how much work it is all year round to be able to do it. Like, the only another dog musher really has a clue. Like, right now I'm having a blast out there, but oh my gosh, that's been months of feeding dogs to get to that point.
Like I said, it's an everyday chore, too. And, you know, so I think the yearly all-round maintenance of the dogs might be one thing that comes as a surprise to people. I mean, we're a lot like farmers in a way. You just have that responsibility to animals all the time. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Do you feel like there are any changes or improvements that still need to be made in sled dog racing? Oh, I'm sure there's room for that. Sure. Yeah. But I think it gets better all the time as it evolves.
That's an interesting question. I don't know. I think we just try to adapt as best we can. And one of our biggest challenges right now is this doggone climate change. You know, like cancelling races and no snow and can't train and, you know, those things make it kind of interesting. But I don't know how you can really adapt to that too much. But luckily there are different places in the country where people can go to races or at least get out and find snow.
Yeah, considering environmental concerns like climate change, what do you think the future holds for sled dog racing and also the Iditarod? I mean, who knows, all right? Like, sometimes this climate change will dump snow on us, and other years we're bare like this year. But most of the time they figure out a way to adapt and people will go train where there is snow, like up Gunsite Mountain or something, you know, if they can't find it where they are. So it continues.
You went on to write a memoir and a couple children's books. What made you want to share your story with the world?
Oh, I'm a natural writer anyway. right and so anytime I've raced I just journal about the experience because it's such an intense experience like for one I want to remember it I want to process it you know so for me that's kind of a natural and then yeah I I knew that you know doing something like winning the race like that I had to write about it and and that was an interesting procedure and, I mean, I'm supposed to be this brave blizzard trooper, but I tell you what
a chicken I was when I got that finished manuscript back from the editor and I had to read it. It took me two weeks to get the guts to open a package and read it. And then I'm reading it. Really? Okay. Oh, cool. I actually like this myself, you know? Yeah. And then my friend Shelly Gill and her artist friend, Shannon Cartwright, like, Shelly ran the Iditarod in 78.
And so I knew her from the dog mushing world but uh her and her like when she finished racing she came home and wrote the kids book about her lead dogs experience and then her friend Shannon illustrated it and they couldn't find any publishing deals they like so typical Alaska gals they start their own publishing company Sasquatch Books oh okay and so Shelly's on me after I went, Riddles, we got to do a kid's book. And so we'd been humming around with different ideas.
And one of the Iditarods, when we were all up in Nome at the finish line, I don't know if it was after the one I won or the next year, but we were all sitting in Carla's kitchen and I was like, oh yeah, I got it.
We got to do it about my cat that lives with all the sled dogs. so and that was such a kick and then um we did a music cd with it too with uh hobo jim and mr white keys and trish ham and sourdough mike mcdonald um and that was a real kick i mean yeah yeah i bet yeah so so yeah what an experience and then later i did the storm run kind of the children's version of my book.
I hadn't been intending to, but my goofy publisher for the adult book gave some other company permission for free to make a kid's book about my story, and I'm like, oh, hell no. If they're going to do that, I'm going to do a better one.
So that's kind of how that one came about, and that's probably one of the ones that's, I mean, that's really done well, because they use, like, they study, I did around in schools, and that's a top one that's used in the schools for the kids and plus it's such a great one for the girls for you know a role model type of story so but uh but i get cool letter like oh my gosh some of the letters i get from kids it's so much fun but i did get one from like this 10 year old boy who's like
dear miss riddles we read your book in school that's really cool i didn't know girls could do things like that and by the way miss riddles you rock you know so so the boys thought it was cool too. How often do you go back to your journals? Oh, only now that I'm trying to transcribe what I can and toss the rest, kind of. So I don't really go back to them very much. But I haven't done a very good job of, like, getting rid of them or anything either. But, yeah, but it is, it's cool.
When I was going through some of those from the 80s, I'd be like, wow, I was doing 35, 40-mile runs around El Chino with five dogs. I totally kind of forgot I was even doing that because I moved beyond that. But anyway, here I am now running five dogs again, but I love running a little team. It's fun. And what kind of musher are you now? like i said i'm gonna run six miles and take a jacuzzi musher but at least i'm still mushing.
You know this year uh we don't have much for trails this year you know like so the trails i usually take are so iced up and there's open creeks and so luckily my neighbor he's he's got a team of nine malmutes and he's running with a snow machine with a guy on a sled behind it, so I'm taking out just these five dogs and we're just like for rendezvous even with my tail dragger sled and five dogs we're just flying you know yeah but so you know just but we're experimenting
we ended up in a creek the other day because uh I tried to take one of the old trails and all the waters open out in the backcountry so, I'm pretty limited at where I can go this year but but anyway as long as I get out I'm a happy can't happy camper. So. Yeah. I keep thinking about your contribution to dog mushing and honestly, sports in general, and it's really amazing. And I, I wonder how much you think about it. Oh, I don't think about it very much. I mean, I really don't.
But I'm proud of how I've lived my life. I mean, I think, in a way, the thing I'm proudest of is just following my instincts of what was going to be a good life for me and then letting it go organically from there. You know, one thing leads to another, and you can't really foresee it. But I know I am one very lucky person. And, yeah, no, I just feel honored to, you know, I've been able to have the experiences that I have.
And if I can use them to help other people and help people understand what we do with dog mushing more, I mean, that's why I love the job I have, like, on the cruise ships, because it's not about me. I don't care about that. Like, I want people, I want to relate to what these people know and are thinking of. So we connect on the level of the dogs. And then this women's thing, you know, I'm honored to have that connection, even if I didn't set out for having it.
But, you know, it's pretty cool when, you know, women can come up and acknowledge me for that and, you know, for helping be a trailblazer and make some headway. So that is a very cool part of this.
Well Libby those are all the questions I have for you I want to thank you for your time your contribution to dog sledding and to Alaska, oh thank you so much this place has been pretty good for me I'm so glad I came to Alaska so thank you very much for having me and letting me tell some stories I appreciate it. Music. For more information about the Anchorage Museum, visit anchoragemuseum.org.
This podcast was produced by me, Cody Liska, for the Anchorage Museum, with additional help from Julie Decker. Chatter Marks Music is produced by Keys Open Doors. Music.