The Shift in Tattoo Culture ft Jake Danielson

I'm interested to see what happens, you know, in the next 10 years or however long, just going forward period in tattooing in what people can achieve and maintain the integrity of a tattoo over a long period of time. Because it's, you know, you see tattoos that are out there and it's like, fine, whatever. Like it looks great today, looks great for a photo, looks great when it's first healed. After a year, it looks five years old. After five years, it looks 10 years old. After 10 years,

it looks like nothing. So I'd be interested to see if whatever crazy

stuff people are producing now, if they find ways to maneuver what's possible and maintain its Okay, deep breath. What, what, what? What do you want? All right, I'll take it. Look at that, he gave me a whole burst of energy. Thank you. All right, everybody, welcome back to Chats and Tats with me, your host, Aaron DeLaVedova. I am honored and amazed and just overjoyed because I am in Frankfurt, Germany at Gods of Ink, and I'm sitting down with some of the most prolific tattoo artists

and artists in the world. And this particular gentleman that is in front of me right now is no exception. I have been looking up to his work for many, many years. We're going to get to all that in a minute. Illustrative base tattooer. You know, what he does is similar to what I do. So there's a particular flavor of admiration that I have for him. So I'm going to get it. Let's just go. Let's just go. But with all that being said, please welcome Jake

Thank you. That's a That's a great intro. I don't know if I'm going to live

That's great. Thank you so much. You're being shy. I've admired your work probably since the start of my career. A long time. You were among the first people that I... You were among the first people that I discovered like through Instagram but earlier in my career where like seeing someone else doing large scale full body tattoos that aren't traditional Japanese.

So it was a cool sort of like you and a handful of others that I discovered early on was like a cool sort of thing to see of like, oh, you can do like this style or this style, like in a large scale format. Whereas I feel like I wasn't seeing too much else of that at the time. You know, it was like Japanese stuff was body suits and then the other styles were singular

Yes. Yeah, no, that was a. Huge struggle. I mean the whole it doesn't even seem like a struggle looking back now that people like you are doing what you do but yeah, you know this I it was my own blockage, but it was like how do I make a Back piece to a leg sleeve without finger waves and the end. Yeah. Yeah. Can it can it be done? Yeah, and it's like, you know, I do different

things. You may feel agree or you know, there always has to be like some kind of movement in that always but like something that cohesively transfers between the composition from the back to the ass to this and how do you deal with that crease of the Some type of flow element that complements the body and transitions Yeah, trying to work out how to do like a lady face with an arm and a body across from say the calf or the thighs all the way up to the shoulders to work in the bum and work in

the hips and stuff to make it look nice is You're among the first people I saw doing that, so I always appreciated your work for that Thanks for having me. I'm stoked to have you here. Your work is amazing. I mean, I just learned you've been tattooing for 14 years. Almost. Almost, not even 14 years. And you're 30 years old. Almost. I fucking scroll through your Instagram and I'm like, what the fuck is going on here? So we'll get into that because I have a feeling you're

some kind of obsessed maniac. I know the hour. Unless you know how to tattoo five times as fast as me, and if you do, please, we'll talk later. I don't think I'm that fast. I'm pretty fast, but I'm sure I'm five times as fast. You've got to be fast to cover that much skin. Jesus Christ. Well, let's start from a little bit from the beginning. I don't want to go through your fucking childhood, but it is always interesting to understand where you're

born, where you're raised, and how does tattoo find you? I mean, how does this So I'm from Melbourne, Australia. I started tattooing when I was 16, did my apprenticeship, a shop called Royal Inc. in Melton. Melton's like a semi-regional town in Melbourne. It's about 35, 45 minutes out of the city. And then tattooing was just one of those things that I was always super interested in. like through high school and stuff. Like I knew I wanted to get tattoos. Cause

my dad had some tattoos and like I saw him get them done. And my dad's best friend actually was like a tattooer in the nineties and he did some tattoos on my dad. So I always thought it was super cool. He got into doing like airbrushing stuff after that kind of HR Geiger sort of things. He did like boats and like old school fridges and stuff with these airbrush designs. I thought that was super cool. And I'd always drawn anime and all that sort of stuff. And then when I was like 14, 15, I was

like, oh, tattooing is like a job. I guess I could do that. So I started drawing like tattoo designs instead of anime and whatnot. And then yeah, I kind of fell into my apprenticeship. I was like, I was like 15 in school and I was like well if I start drawing tattoo designs now I can like get good at it and build up a portfolio so when I'm 18 and I finish school I can like start going to tattoo shops and like try and get an apprenticeship. I didn't think anywhere would take me on like as

a fucking 16 year old in high school. But I rode like BMX a lot at the time. And one of my friends that I rode bikes with, his mom went to school with the guy who taught me how to tattoo, his wife. And they had like just opened up a shop again. He'd been tattooing for like 25 years at that point in the city. And he opened up a shop in his town, which is where I lived. And she

had heard that they were looking for an apprenticeship. And my friend's mom was like, oh, I know a kid who'd be perfect for it, and kind of recommended me. And I went there after school in my school uniform. I don't know. I mean, I wouldn't have hired me. But they saw something. And they were like, oh, yeah, we'll take you on. Yeah. And then I started on Monday. And then I was there for like- How old are

you at this point right now? 16. 16 yeah so I went in and then yeah I was there for like I don't know three or four months and then the school year finished and our school year you guys do it differently in America I think but our school year finishes in December and we have our summer break for like six weeks in over Christmas time Because

that's summer down there. That's summer down there. Yeah, we're the opposite to you. So I'd been going to the tattoo shop, like doing my apprenticeship after school and on the weekends for like three months. And then the six weeks holidays that we had, I just went to the shop every day, like six days

a week. And I was just there. And then I was like, I can't go back to school. Oh yeah my mentor was like he took me on like kind of casually at first and was like you know I want you to finish school and stuff like that and I was like fuck that dude like I don't want to finish school no way and my parents thankfully were like super supportive and like really chill about me dropping out to tattoo and so then I went all in on my apprenticeship then and then I started tattooing and

Oh, yeah. You got an early start. Yeah. And it was it was a busy street shop, too. So like they took me on like sort of, you know, wanting me to get tattooing so I could start doing some of the walk It's great because I just did everything because putting the hours and learning the technique quickly at such a young Yeah. Yeah. My my mentor was great. Like I love him to bits. Really, really appreciative for everything that he gave me. And

he wasn't a super hands-on teacher though. He was kind of like, throw you in the deep end of the pool and like, see if you can swim and then just help you a little bit, like whenever you needed it. So yeah, he got me tattooing and then was like, I don't know, there was just like one random day where like this customer came in and no one was free to do it. And then he was like, oh, Jake can do it. And then I did this like, it was like a tribal thing, like on the hand here.

And that was my first like walk-in tattoo that was paid. And then from then I just did walk-ins, like anything and everything, lettering, tribal, a little bit of realism, you know, old school, like American traditional stuff. And I do that all day.

And then in the evenings, because I was 16 at the time, And through the crowds that I was in, like riding BMX and skating and going to heavy metal shows and stuff, a lot of my friends that I had weren't from school and they were friends from the social groups that I would hang out in. And a lot of them were a little bit older than me. So a lot of them were like just turning 18. So they were like super keen to get tattooed and even more keen to get tattooed if it was free. So

I did a lot of free tattoos. And then when I started doing walk-ins and I was like making a little bit of money, I'd do that all day and like work the shop all day. And then at like five or 6 p.m. I'd book an evening session, like a full day, three to six hours or whatever it was. And I'd do like, I guess my stuff, like custom drawn stuff on my friends that were all super keen to get it. They're probably kind of shitty tattoos now, but I'm super appreciative of

them. So for the first year that I was tattooing full-time, I was just doing walk-ins, street shop stuff all day, and then evening sessions at night. And my wife, who was my girlfriend at the time, was like, When are you coming home? I was like, yeah, yeah. I'm surprised you're married, actually. Yeah, right? Yeah, no, she's super cool. My wife's awesome. And we've been

together almost the whole time I've been tattooing. So that's kind of like, not Usually that person, that girlfriend, and that, what you're saying, that goes separate ways. Yeah, no, she's been super cool. So she's been in the industry as long as I have. And she's super covered in tattoos. Oh, pastry chef. Yeah. She makes cakes. Yeah. Yeah. So you get done with that big day and you got the best cupcake in the world waiting for you when you get home. Absolutely. Yeah. Wow. So that, that's

kind of like the dream scenario. Oh, you know, everybody out there that's, that went through whatever they went through to become a tattooer, forgive I don't know why. Don't get me wrong. It had, it had its moments, you know, it was a proper old school street shop, but for the most part, I look back on my apprenticeship very

Well, yeah, you were treated right, and you were given the opportunity, and you took it. That's the difference. I mean, there's a lot of people that would have been in that situation that would have not stayed late at night and done their work. I mean, that's what I'm hearing in this story is this incredible work ethic. Where'd you I just love tattooing, yeah. That's where, me too, people

I've been pretty blessed. with the people that I've surrounded myself with for my whole career that I rarely ever feel like I'm the hardest worker in the room. I've been around some people that really put in a lot of hours and a lot of graft into like perfecting their craft. So I've always felt like I'm playing catch up or like I don't work enough, you know. So yeah, it's nice of you to say that, but I've always felt like, ah, maybe I'm

It's damn, it's hard to read. It's hard to think about you being around others that were outworking that schedule. And what I see in your portfolio today, which is obviously the result of somebody who works hard and long and hard. So Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I've been very lucky, very fortunate to have like great So this is 17, 18, 19 we're talking about at this point. Like my age or the year? No, this phase of your life. This is your 17, 18, 19. Yeah, like

Well, I started my apprenticeship in 2011. Okay. Yeah. So this is like the real explosion Absolutely. Yeah. I started tattooing in a real sweet spot where like this whole, um, Like obviously throughout like the late 90s and early 2000s, tattooing was really pushing forwards. But there was like a more select group of people that were really pushing that. And then with the rise of Instagram at that time,

like 2012 is when Instagram really popped off. So And that's also the way where, and maybe it's still here for some artists, but that's the way where the thing to do is to get a bigger tattoo than your friend. You know what I mean? It's like, oh, you got a half You know, that's, yeah. Well, I remember like when I started tattooing, my whole perception of tattooing was so different like what I thought it was gonna be and like what I thought I knew about tattoos

was so different to what was starting to happen at that time. I feel like 2010 onwards like really had a shift in tattooing and like I guess more like regular people getting larger tattoos and all of those sort of things and just all of that sort of coinciding with the rise of Instagram and stuff so it's just started becoming more and more I wouldn't say acceptable or in reach, but just more like people were more aware of it. So they were seeing more of it. So they were getting more of it. And

then yeah, cause I got to kind of start my career alongside that. Instagram worked out really well for me where, you know, like I said, I was tattooing my friends in the evenings. So I had early on in my career, I had a portfolio of work that I could advertise on Instagram to get more work like that. And I think in like my first two years, like I was pretty much booked out doing like what

I was doing or like my flash or whatever it was. So I No, that's a perfect timing, but you know, 33 years watching what the, how the cycles of went on. That's the spot. You nailed that. I mean, not on Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, it was, it wasn't by a choice. It was

It's funny at that time, us in America, we didn't even know you guys were tattooing down there. Or anywhere, for that matter. You know, it was like, oh yeah, there's Philip Liu, there's like three or four guys in Europe that are tattooing, and then the Americas were tattooing. Meanwhile, tattooing was happening at this pace in all these other countries. You see it when you go out on that floor today. The whole world was working hard. I mean, I Yeah, even when I started, like, Instagram

wasn't like fully popped off yet. So there was a lot, you know, you had your tattooers that were on Facebook still, your tattooers that were, you know, off the MySpace sort of thing. And then your tattooers that were going onto Instagram, but like a lot of the ways that I You say 2012 and people immediately think like Instagram was like fully in swing sort of thing. And like, it was kind of, but like I wasn't using it for that just yet. So all the people that I found out about was through

like magazines and books that we had in the shop. My mentor had like a collection of books and magazines with this one called like Tattoo Candy. It was like an Australian magazine and found all these artists through there, like, you know, Rachy Brains and Emily Rose, Jasmine Austin, all those like really cool Australian tattooers that I like, it was like, holy shit, this is awesome. We had a magazine that did like a huge feature on Uncle Alan and I was like, oh, that is so cool.

You know, and I'd never seen tattoos like that before I got into the shop. I just thought tattoos were tattoos. Like, you know, my dad had like kind of like 90s to 2000s style tattoos. I just thought that's what tattooing was. And it was like kind of this like biker scene or whatever. And I was like, yeah, that sounds cool. Like, I don't mind like being around all that

like I just I just want to fucking tattoo. But then I like found all these people in like, you know, Philip Lui, we had Philip Lui's book and Shige and stuff and I'm flicking through all those and seeing all this incredible work and just immediately blew my mind into like how much more

incredible tattooing was than I even thought that it was. And then fast forward like only six months and then I'm on Instagram and everyone's on Instagram posting and I'm just finding more and more artists every day so just like constantly like inspired and blown away by like all the stuff people are doing so it became a really big world like really fast for me and I realized how many people are out there doing incredible work

You're nailing it. That's tattoo history right there. I mean, that's exactly what happened at that time. The world of tattooing was shown to all the other tattooers around the world in a fucking week. And it's not a week, but there was It feels like that, yeah. The same process happened for me. I was, at that time, sitting around thinking I was the greatest tattooer in the world because of my little town. Fucking king

man did it. I'm the winner fuck off. Yeah, and instagram happens and i'm like, I suck I suck what the fuck? Oh my fucking god, you know, and it never stopped. It's Yeah, it's still going Yeah, it's still going totally. It's crazy. Like I uh, I travel around a bit and go to a lot of different conventions and stuff and every time you find someone and you're like, holy shit, like People are doing like the best tattoos in

the world are being done right now. They're being done out there Yeah, I know you get to go and look at it and you're like fuck that is insane It's so good. And then sometimes you see people and you're like I have been tattooing like six years. I fuck you I know I had a rule at my shop anybody You can't work here. Yeah now my rule is Yeah, yeah. Maybe less. Let me see what you got. The growth is Yeah, exactly. I feel like some people

would look at it negatively, but there's so much. information and inspiration out there now that it's just, it's so, I don't wanna say easy to like discredit their work or whatever, because, you know, people who started in the 90s probably think how I had it was easy and people who started when I started probably think

how people have it now is easy. So I don't wanna say easy, but there's so much information and inspiration and knowledge out there that you don't even have to look that far to see that people now just, they get to, run in like They get a start at the last best tattoo that was done that week, capitalize on it, make it better, and jump from there. Exactly, yeah. So here you

have this acceleration occurring. And maybe it's in defense of my own career, but for most of my, well, the first half of my career, we didn't have, you had to drive somewhere, go in, fake that you're not a tattooer so that they would allow you to see the portfolio, try to memorize what the fuck they were doing. What

the fuck's he doing? Hey, you can have it back now You know that and then when that that was the game changer is everyone being able to see what everyone else was doing yeah learn from that and Leapfrog forward from that. Yeah, and it's not gonna stop and we can see it happening today and it's happening It's such a accelerated

pace that I don't know if we go here now But it makes me think about the next ten years like I look out there all that stuff that people are doing all the greatest tattooers in the world something better than that. It's the top of the pyramid. You can't do anything that looks more like a painting than that. You can't compose better than that. And I do think there is going to be, not a plateau, but I think this fucking rocket ship increase in radness is going to, it is going to go a little like

this. And now we're going to see more of this type Well, I think it has to, right? Limitations to what you can actually achieve in the skin in the sense of something that's going to last as a tattoo. I'm interested to see what happens in the next 10 years or however long just going forward period in tattooing in what people can achieve. and maintain the integrity of a tattoo over a long period of time. Cause it's,

you know, you see tattoos that are out there and it's like, fine, whatever. Like it looks great today. It looks great for a photo. Looks great when it's first healed. After a year, it looks five years old. After five years, it looks 10 years old. After 10 years, it looks like nothing. So I'd be interested to see if whatever crazy stuff people are producing now, if they find ways to maneuver what's possible, and maintain its long life and integrity of the

I mean, because first of all, we have, what's our, we have a traditional backbone in our work. Both of us do, right? You put the fucking black outline in there, you put some darkness behind it somewhere, usually black, use some color to bring that image forward. Lots of skin, maybe, hopefully. I'm guilty of sometimes not doing that as well as I should. But the bottom line is, in its core, that's why they call it Neotrad, because there's a traditional backbone occurring in there. And I'm a

free-loving guy. I'm not here to judge. And it's hard. How do I word this? But there is so much hyper-realism occurring in the industry that is so fucking amazing and shocking. Not just the phone. I mean, I've seen a lot of this stuff in person. How is that? How do you get these micro increments of color adjustments? Yeah. They do such long sessions. And you know, some famous tattoo artist does photo realistic, blah,

blah, blah. I'm getting a back piece from this guy. And I'm just like, I think that's fucking rad. Are you ready for 200 hours on your back? Maybe you can do it quicker, but I don't think you can create a back piece of that stuff. I find it crazy when they do large scale stuff where it takes multiple sessions to build it up. And I'm like, man, how do you like, they just keep coming back and recreating the photo. Like, I

guess we kind of do that with our drawings and stuff. But for the most part, I outline it. and then I color it in. Yeah. Maybe there's a touch up. Yeah. But, but like, I'm not like, I'm just going to like spend eight hours on this one section of your back. And then I've got 40 more of those panels to do over the next however many sessions. True. But I think like when I started, you know, guys like Nico Otato and stuff were, you know, top of the realism game doing phenomenal realism work and

stuff. Um, and you know, you've always got the people that like, ah, it's not going to last, not going to last, whatever. And it has improved. Oh yeah. Incredibly. That's true. I'm not a huge fan of realism tattooing. I don't dislike it and I like kudos to the people that do it. It's just not my flavor. I like illustrative stuff,

Japanese and Neotrend and stuff. But even if you just look at the last 10 years of realism, like what I was saying before, like in terms of like mastering the longevity of the tattoos, people, there's still some realism tattoos that are going to fall apart really quick. And I see tattoos that look incredible when they're fresh, and not even a year later, they look like nothing. Well, not nothing, but you can see the lack of the backbone in there. But there's people who

are doing that style of stuff. And they're making it last like a bit longer, you know, I'm talking like stuff that I've seen over the last five years or so. So it's not like I've seen it 20 years down the track, but it's improved from where it was. So not just in realism, but

that's where I'm interested to see like what people can get away with. And have it last like I can't wait to see what the next 20 years of my career looks like for myself but also like seeing what work other people are doing and what work that's being done today it looks like in Only time will tell man that's the that's the unique thing one of the unique things about the tattoo art form it's it's a. one of the only art forms that has this longevity thing happening.

I mean, I guess you could say that about a painting and how long that paint will stay on the canvas, but let's be real, that's not really a concern to some degree. But our stuff, it's a major concern. What's going to be there? We're living tissue with sunshine hitting our arms and this and that, and I have dark skin, light skin. There's a lot going on there. And unlike you, I am a fan of the more traditional backbone pieces. It's just maybe why I grew up on that stuff. But it's also something

I trust a little more. I'm too scared to try some of those techniques. I'm like, I'm just so terrified I'm going to use peach. and it's gonna come back. Peach terrifies me, that particular color. I think I had a bad one where I used peach and the guy comes back and it's like his freckles or something's happening and the peach is

Oh yeah, like the discoloration? Yeah. I've had that happen like once or twice before and I tried to do some research on it and it was hard to find like good solid information about I think it has to do with the, cause I've used that, maybe we're talking about peach, I've used that on other people that look great and similar skin tone, looking skin tones. But this particular person, it's a fucking problem.

So it's just over the years I've gotten more scared. I'm just like, all right, more black, simpler colors, colors, you know, primaries that I know fucking work. I'm just, Like you, I don't just care about what's gonna happen today and how much that client's gonna be like, thank you, fucking dope. And the photo goes on Instagram and everyone's fucking giving you all the comments. I'm really concerned about bumping into that guy or girl at a fucking restaurant

in 15 years and them being like, look. And I'm like, oh my Yeah, I think that was like a... that was a major shift for me at like the 10-year mark where like not just at the 10-year mark but like leading up to that as well but where you're like the tattoo how it lives on like on the person for the next like the rest of their life is so much more important than the Instagram photo and the 10-year mark is probably not even a

good market like when I started doing larger scale stuff I really realized that because before I was doing larger scale stuff, sleeves and back pieces and stuff, I was doing a lot of one-hit pieces, like upper arm, out of thigh sort of thing, like one session, big tattoo, sort of five to eight hours, come in, bang it out. And at that point in my career, I had such a like, I thought speed

was so important. like wanting to get the job done for my clients so they didn't have to come back and pay for another session so it was just the once trying to give them like a big tattoo for the rate that they were paying me so I felt like they were getting something good for their money and just trying to get it done and then trying to get an Instagram photo to post it up that day you know like every day was tattoo,

take a photo, post it on Instagram, go home, draw the next tattoo, do the same thing every single day. And that was like my cycle. It was like I wanted to get a good photo for it. I wanted to post it online. So you get that instant gratification and everyone tells you how good you are and stuff and it feels good and you're like, oh, that's great. And I started doing larger scale stuff and I'm like, oh, I've got nothing to post. And

I realized it's not really important. It doesn't really matter. So I started caring more about the tattoo. And then, you know, fast forward a little bit more till you get to like sort of the 10 year mark and not right on 10 years. Cause it's like, you're not looking at stuff you did as an apprentice and be like, oh wow, look how that healed. It's like, you're an apprentice. That is probably fucking healed shit anyway. But the years forward from 10 to now, you start seeing pieces that

you did in the first few years of your career and how they've aged. you start to influence your decisions more on how things are gonna last in the long run. And like now because I'm doing back pieces and stuff at home all the time, you know, they're like six to 20 session projects that I'm working on. So I barely have anything to post and it's made me realize like how not important that

is to an extent. To an extent. I'm in a fortunate position where I'm busy at home so I don't have to maintain posting all the time to keep the workflow going. So there's a duality to it. But I just mean that importance that people can place on that instant gratification of posting your tattoo straight away and stuff. It's much more important to focus on the quality of your craft and longevity

of the tattoo. If you do that and you put like good effort into your work and good care into that, you're going to create a good product, which will sell itself.

100% agree. The, you know, I kind of almost feel bad for the young tattooers or not in every regard. I mean, there's a few levels to this, but for the young guys that are coming up or girls coming up right now, um, I, It's like, wow, they've got a big problem ahead of them because the industry is already saturated by kings

of tattooing. There's so many of them. So I imagine myself in their position and I'm like, And this is where my forgiveness and compassion comes in for the things that some of them do, that I'm like, that's, I think that's irresponsible tattooing, and I think you even know it is. But they're probably thinking, how

the, I need fucking clients, dude. Like, this picture is cool enough, and it gets more hype than, you know, I can't, it's so funny over my career, it's like, how many times have I posted a bodysuit that I'm like, hey everybody, check out the last three years of my fucking life. And it's like, cool. And then somebody that works for me does this thing this big, and it's like the

world explodes around it. And so there is an unfortunate situation they find themselves in, which is how to get a foothold in this current beast of an industry that is hitting some kind of saturation point. And so they're looking around like, some of the young tattooers, I can tell what they're doing is they're just looking around like, what's hot? Like, what do you do? They're looking at you like, I don't know what I do. What

should I do? Kind of a thing. And that was never, when you were coming up and I was coming up, that was not a, you did what you did. And if it was good, everyone loved it. Now they're looking at, like, what's the niche? Like, what's hot right now? And they know, because they go on here and they see, like, ah, it's pretty obvious

that's hot. That's what I do. I do microtats. Yeah, you know because I got bills and I gotta you know, so they're they are up against something in that regard That's it's it's We're like a custom tattooing has sort of taken over from flash tattoo which I feel like and I could be wrong on my perspective of this, there's probably people who, I mean, you would probably be able to offer a better insight with 30 years, but I feel like when I came into it, it was on the tipping point of custom really

taking over. Not that custom wasn't around before, there was people pushing, like yourself, pushing custom tattooing before that. We were kind of the rarity, yes. Exactly, I feel like I came in where custom was at the tipping point of sort of, Taking over as the majority sort of thing. You know, when your TV show started, when they started really promoting the story behind the tattoo, people went from wanting flash off the wall to wanting

something that means something. And then from wanting something that means something to just wanting something that looks cool but is unique to them. And now we're in sort of that era where custom is more important, but there's so many different genres of tattooing that

it's not all the same thing. And people kind of have to find their like, like you said, their sort of foothold and where they belong, but they don't really get the, I don't know if it's a luxury or not, but I would say it was important to my career and

obviously important to all the people that came before me of like working in street shop where people would come in and ask for anything and everything and flash off the walls where you can really learn everything. Nowadays it seems like the younger tattooers go straight into specializing in something and I mean I don't know this but I know from my personal experience, when I started tattooing, I had absolutely no perspective on

how incredible some of the work that was out there was. And I had a very limited, like I knew that I thought tattoos were super cool and I liked the idea of them and the way they looked and I wanted to do that. But what I thought was possible and like what I thought tattoos were was way different to what was actually happening. Like I came into it thinking like, yeah, I'll just do tattoos, like whatever. And then I got into it a bit more. I was like, I'll do

like American traditional or something. And then, Neotrad like showed itself to me and I was like, oh shit. And then I started like Japanese and I was like, oh my God, wow. So what I thought I was gonna do when I started tattooing and what I do now are like completely separate things. I just wanted to do good tattoo. I just want to be a good tattooer. Whereas I feel like now people come in and they're like, I do this. Yeah.

That's it, full stop. And it's like, it's tough to pigeonhole yourself so early, especially if it's something that's like a trend or whatever, because you're not going to learn like all the things that the other styles can teach you. Sure, you might get really good at that one thing and that's good. You kind of have to now. Well, that's I mean, yeah, I agree with everything you just said, but It's hard for me to advise the young tattooer anymore, because I'm still trying to figure this out,

but sometimes I kind of say... Find I feel like you kind of have to, but it's also like the duality of it is kind of a shame if you don't explore

I have the same heartache when I say it, because I'm like, God damn it, I would just love to see you do some fucking street tattoos for four years. Yeah, yeah. And then find your niche. Yeah. But you'll probably starve before you Yeah. Oh, it's so different. Yes. That's cool. Well, that that sort of leads to like this whole the evolution of tattooing right in this genre. expansion that's occurring. I think 10 years ago I could name four genres, now I could probably name 20. I kind of

feel like I'm an old-timer now, and I'm a very open-minded guy. I love to accept all art on every level, but when it first starts, I've had my moments, especially the black work movement. I was like, what is this? This is not art. Do you know how to draw a fucking snake? Get the fuck out of here. I was wrong. Because that evolved into what I think is some of the most beautiful tattooing happening today. In fact, if I could go back in time, I don't even

know if I would be an illustrative tattooer. I think I would maybe just decorate human bodies with black ink and different shapes. so yeah some of it's not for me but some of it like what they can create with just black paneling and just slight bits of open skin that creates some type of flow line on the body and like also the clients that are into that like niche of tattooing they're like their willingness to Dedicate such a large panels for talk about hardcore collectors. Yeah,

what is like a super simple vision? Yeah, we like I just want to do this like one negative line that goes from the inside of your ankle all the way up your leg across your hip across your arm ditch and up to your shoulder and that's That's it. And you're like, yes, sweet. What's the rest gonna be

It's not for everyone, but it looks cool. Well, one of the coolest paradigms that that broke, which I think is so fucking awesome, is this whole idea that culture always had, which was Nice tattoo, what's it mean? Yeah. And which drove me a little bit crazy in the beginning, although I think there was part of me, it's like, yeah, I guess that's true. I mean, you know, the whole client comes in and yeah, the art's being destroyed because they are convinced what they

don't even care. It's just that they know they have to go answer to a bunch of people. And their mom and their dad and their wife are going to ask that question and they need to have a valid answer. So this great sleeve you just did, which is beautiful, it's going to have to have this one opal in it because... Yeah, it's their grandmother's birthstone. There you go. And then That's the TV show thing. Oh

yeah, probably. I mean, I think so. Like they highlighted As if every tattoo must have a story or it's shit Exactly. But, you know, that exposure to tattoos is what like blew it up to such a wide audience of people who would never get a tattoo. But now they want one because they think it looks kind of cool, but they're like, I don't just want one for no reason. So like, I can have like a, you know, this flower is going to be purple for

my man. It's her favorite color. And then I'm always like, ah, fucking purple. It doesn't work there, but it's gotta be purple. Yeah, it was always purple too. I've been pretty lucky in my career with people like- It's always purple. Yeah, it's always fucking purple, man. People are always like super cool about everything, and then you get halfway through the set and they're like, I We can declare that purple is the most meaningful color. People

love it. People love purples. It means the most in some spiritual family way. Yeah. Well, I just that's the part I do love is that paradigm seems to be rapidly shifting and there's a new paradigm, which is hey guys girls We can just decorate ourselves, right? Absolutely, you know, which is like

when you it's so obvious when you look back on it Like how do we paint cars? How do we decorate living rooms? How do we design architecture? Architecture like we don't build a beautiful fucking house and then put a purple Chandelier because no one walks in your house and it's like man. This place is dope. What's

it represent? Yeah You know, yeah, but when it's on your I feel like that's coincided with like the General acceptance Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there's some people that are, but for the most part, I mean, you know, like in Australia, like you walk around and like, everyone's got a sleeve. I feel like there's more people that have tattoos than don't at home. Everyone I see has a sleeve, you know, Australia is like by and large, like

a pretty blue collar country. And like, you know, your majority of like people work in trades or maybe in an office or something and you see them out at the shopping center and you know, they've got like their arms, hands, That's so cool. That's awesome. It's such a bummer that I did this to be a badass and I'm not. Which is the truth, I'm not. Oh, But I feel like when the TV shows kind of boomed tattooing into

a wider audience, it made it. more okay for your average person who isn't a biker or a super fringe social group to get a tattoo if it meant something. And then as that's grown now it doesn't have to and you

can just like adorn your body with something beautiful which is great. It's great for me because I do big work and people come to me like I want this and they're so willing to go for like ideas and You know, oh, it would look better if we did it this little bit bigger or this, this, and they're like, yeah, okay, Well, the truth is to really compose a large, which you do a lot of this, compose a large piece across the entire human form, that might mean that there's just an area this large that's

a part of the robe off of a woman's head. But it occupies your ass to almost your fucking knee. So on its own, What is that? It's just a big bunch of lines and some red ink. Take your clothes off, walk away 20 foot. Oh, fucking hell, I'm getting this now. People are more willing to, and when I look back at my own career, because I grew up in it sooner than you did, I still

suffer from this disease. It's like, if I get that moment where I know that's the way to express the piece, and if they walk 20 feet away, it's gonna look fucking beautiful, I accidentally have to put a rope or a fucking drawer. You know, like, well, when he's taking a shit, I want him to see something cool. You know, still have something on his thigh that isn't just part of this overscoping situation. And there are tricks and good ways to do that where you can find that little thing

You can still keep most parts of it looking interesting. Yes, yes. I That's kind of my point. There's a lot of people not even trying to do that now, and I'm like, ah, that's the way. Why am I trying to do this? But I do think it's a paradigm shift, and I love it. Me, myself, I don't know how many more years I've got tattooing. I'm not going to reinvent myself, but gosh, I almost don't even want to tattoo subject matter anymore. I'm just like, can I just decorate you, please? Yeah,

All day. Like a water sleeve. Oh, let's fucking go. I have dreams of doing like just a water only suit. I do too. I have the same dream. Water sleeves. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's funny how like the longer you tattoo and like you hang out with other tattooists and stuff, like everyone I know that's been tattooing for like a good amount of time, like, oh man, what's the dream thing you'd love to do? Oh, just water. Oh my god, it's the funnest thing to tattoo there. It's so good. Yeah, yeah, it's the same. It's kind of the same. Some type of flowy sort of, yeah. Anything that flows nice, that's

True, true. What's... Okay, I'm always curious to know, a guy like you, your process. You meet the client. How does the client find you? You get an email, I'm assuming, or something. From there, physical consultations, or? I've started reintroducing physical consultations if people want to do them, but for a long time I haven't really done them. It's just been by email, and I'd only ever ask for an in-person consult if I felt like I needed more

from the person. Or if they ask for it. Or if they ask for it, yeah. I've started offering it again more now to be like, do you want to discuss this online or do you want to discuss this in person? Either is fine. But I've been fortunate for quite a amount of years now that like a lot of people have traveled to get tattooed by me from other states or other countries and stuff.

So that's not really possible. So they can't do it. So I kind of had to gear my process to be able to do everything without that. And then it worked fine. So it was just whatever. But then I started like just offering it again to see if people wanted to come into the shop because it's nice to, I have less space in my calendar now to take on new people. So if someone wants to come in and do a consultation and really make sure that we're the right match, then

I'm fine with that. But yeah, people email me, they'll send me their ideas. I generally ask for, okay, give me your name, your contact information. your design idea, placement, and we'll sort of go from there. And some people, it's as simple as, I want an eagle, go for it. I'm like, oh, sweet. Eagle, forefront, or whatever. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Nowadays, I'll kind of ask a few more questions about like, what are your plans for your body?

whether you're gonna get a bodysuit, whether you're gonna get a collection of tattoos, whether you want one big tattoo and all stickers, what are your plans? Because sometimes people will email for a back piece or a sleeve, for example, and then they'll come in for the appointment and they're like, yeah, I wanna do the other arm too. And yeah, I wanna do my back as well. And then before I know it, I've got half a bodysuit with this person, which

is awesome. And I'm super lucky that a lot of clients return for multiple projects with me, which is great, but sometimes, they'll ask for something on their sleeve that's their first idea and then they'll be like yeah I want my back done as well and they'll tell me their idea for their back and I'm like man that would have been better on your arm and your arm idea would have been better on your back so I'll kind of ask people like what are your plans roughly, whether they're with me or

not. So I can like advise from there. But then yeah, from there I just get the idea and I've been lucky enough that people tend to just trust me. And then I just draw it to be ready for their appointment. And then they show up. So you draw it up, you send it over to them to check? No, not usually. You show up? Yeah. There it is. So I'll do my design like the week of, anywhere from the start of the week to like the night before I try to spend Some of my friends hang

shit on me for this because it takes them a long time to draw. I draw really fast. It normally takes me like a few hours to draw up like a back piece or something. These days iPad, yeah. But paper just as fast. The iPad is just more convenient. So yeah, I do it all on the iPad now, whip it up. And my usual process for like a back piece, which is like mostly what I'm drawing is I'll spend two days on it. I'll spend the first day knocking out a sketch and like composition

and that sort of stuff. And then I'll put it down, leave it for the night, go to work the next day, come back, look at it again. And then I'll do my outline. And if I have enough time, like a color theory, And I find breaking it up like that, it's not, I don't necessarily need the time for it. I could do it in one sitting if I wanted to, but it gives me more free time to

like not be drawing right after work. And it also, I find like, if I come back to it with fresh eyes the next day, I might see something that Yeah. So if I leave it all to the last minute, I feel like you just commit It's always better if you get some idea going, let it sit, sleep, our brains work while we're sleeping, right? So the brain's still working on the project. You get up, you got new ideas, yes. That's very similar to how I Yeah, so generally I don't send it to them. I

don't really know why. Like it's something that when I started tattooing, it was like, I'll show you on the day and we'll have time for changes so that I didn't like take it somewhere else or whatever. Nowadays, I just, I don't know, people don't even really ask that much. They're like, okay, cool. See you on the day. And then they come in for the drawing and they kind of trust that what I'm

going to draw is like going to be what they want. And then. I One of the reasons that's true for you is what you do and where you're at in your career, the people that are contacting you, they're fans. They're not your normal collectors. They are already committed to you and they're going to Well, not lucky. I mean, they see, open up, they're like, I know it's gonna be pretty much something like that, I'm down. So you can just spring

Yeah, that's good. So yeah, that's kind of just how it goes. And then they And then how many hours are you, what's a normal session? Like? About six. Six? Yeah, about six hours. Six hours of like tattooing time. My like normal day, I start at 11 and then finish. anywhere between like five and seven on a normal day, depending on what we're working on. Like five would be like early and like we got in, started tattooing straight away. And it's just like a coloring session. You know, sometimes like

back piece outline days, we might finish at fucking 10 o'clock at night. Like it just depends on how big it is. And the stencil takes so long, you know. Normally like those days we're not starting outlining until like one or two o'clock. By the time we've like made the stencil, put it on, let it dry, had some lunch. So yeah, some days are longer than others. But yeah, about six hours. I find six is like a sweet spot where like, I'm good

with that amount and I can tattoo that amount every day and be fine. And I find most clients can sit for But near enough, near enough to. I feel like the five number is no one's. freaking out, sixes are doable, Yeah, seven and up, I feel like I'm really pushing people uphill. And there is days, like the way I do, I charge a day rate. So it's a flat pay. Flat fee per day. Sorry. And yeah, it's based on an hourly amount. And it's for on

average, six hours worth of work. But because you know, you're doing 10 session pieces, you kind of aim for a section each time, right? And, you know, one day that might be five hours worth of work and one day that might be seven. It just kind of averages out. It's usually around six. Normally pretty good at guessing a good amount around then, but there is days that are a little less and days that are a little longer. And unless it's dramatically

less, it's still sort of the same thing. Like if they tap out or if we've only got like a small amount of work done, charge a half day or whatever. But in general, we do the sort of like five So on your Instagram, it doesn't say, what So I work at a studio that is I wouldn't say private. It's like an appointment only studio We're kind No, okay, and I don't figure out personally right now I want the hassle of having to babysit while I'm hearing is I'm seeing the Productivity and

I'm hearing your schedule. I'm like this he fucking run a tattoo shop. No, I have no intention to either you're doing this Five days a week six six five or six five or six. Yeah. Okay, so Work-life balance. How do you manage that? I mean, I know what you're doing. The art, the drawing, the whole day of tattooing, five, six days, laundry, grocery shopping. You look like a healthy guy. I know you're staying fit. I need to work on my fitness a little. We all do. How do you, do you have any

thing you do to like balance yourself out? I mean, that's a very one, I don't, it sounds rude. I was going to say one dimensional, but it's a lot of work is, is, is tattooing. 90% of Yeah. It's not. And it'd be fine. I mean, if you were a five year, 14 years in, so I, I, how do you keep, how do you stay in like, I feel like healthy mentally, physically, because I do such big work, I don't have to draw every day. Oh, that's, that's helpful. I

get that. So when I go home from work, it's not always drawing to It's still five to six days a week of tattooing. That's when you, the day's done. By the time you get there, get prepped, tattoo the Yeah. So I normally leave, I normally leave my house at like quarter to 10 in the morning, go to work, tattoo till five, six, seven o'clock, normally by seven-ish. I'm on my way home, kind of home by 7.30, cook dinner, have dinner with my wife, maybe watch a little bit of TV. play

So no big hobbies, you're not into jet skiing or anything? No, I play basketball twice a week. All right, you're still getting out there doing something Yeah, I play basketball. Yeah, I used to ride bikes a little bit still on the weekends sometimes. But yeah, it's mostly tattooing. It's mostly tattooing. That's what it

sounds like. My wife's super cool. She's super supportive. She's We both always wanted kids but you know now we're 30 and we're like oh not right now but yeah one day one day yeah well we're sort of in Well that's the thing right like I want to do I want to push myself as hard as I can to like do the best work that I can and work and like get as many people in as I can get all these projects going and travel do the conventions and all that stuff while I can while I have the time while I have the

freedom to do so because if we decide to have kids or if I decide that it's just too much and I want to slow down a little bit like I want to do it while I'm like feeling good for it you know and like right now I'm like the most like Energized about like tattooing and doing as much as I can riding that wave because yeah, it was curling and you're in there Yeah, it's not like burning me out too much. But honestly like the big thing is just like I don't have to draw that much Like

yeah, I remember and I try to schedule my schedule out specifically. So if I have something new I try not to book more than one of those in a week and So I've got ample time to do the drawing. So my work-life balance is still good. You know, I go to work every day and then I come home and spend some time with my wife. I still have time for my hobbies outside of work. And you know, we run around schedule.

So if I need to do something, I can get up in the morning and do it before my job. still get to the shop by 11 and do my appointment and I've I was trying to find a pinch point in your life and you just don't seem to have one because that leads to like my next question which is you know life can get to a pinch point where you're trying to do all those things and maybe you do have the kids and maybe you have a health crisis or you know trying to balance and work at the load that

you work at and produce at the productivity level that you work at can create a pinch point and in those points I always want to ask people, what's your true north? What gets you through that? But what I'm hearing is, I just think you've got a good rhythm going and you're like, I don't really run Yeah, it's been a good pinch point. Sorry, no pinch point really, just a good flow. I mean, I probably fall behind on other stuff that I should keep up with. I don't catch

up with friends as often as I should and stuff. That's just it. That's just life. That's just what it is. I get pretty good flow, pretty good work-life balance. I keep things pretty

chill. I think, yeah, the biggest thing is just not having to draw every day. I That was a game-changer for me too, because it starts with everyone, I don't know, in a year you have 500 clients, and then you go down to like, 200 clients and then they get bigger and suddenly you do a year with 50 clients and eventually, I don't even know, you're probably working in a year with 40 people. At that size, it can be 40 people, it

could fill up your year. So that's 40 drawings. Once you got those fucking things outlined, it's just a matter of going in there and you already know what's happening, it's just the grinding it out part of it. Yeah, exactly. Relationship has become super important to me. Like it always has been. You always want to get along with your client and all that sort of stuff, but Now that I spend so much time with them, it's like so much more important to me that like, you know, I become friends

with like most of my clients. They're the people that I spend every day with. Like I see them more than my actual friends outside of tattooing. So, you know, I want to like them and I want them to like me and like I have a deep care for them. So that relationship has become super important in like the process of I mean, from my eyes, you're still a little younger than me, but I think you already said it, that's gonna be the most important part when the game's over. That part right there. It's

beautiful. And there's a connection that's beyond what And it's- Yeah, it's something entirely different all on its own. It's this weird like sort of like love that you have for your client and the art that you create that's like, different to a regular friendship or different to any other relationship, but not less important in any way. Like it's a, it's very unique. This is a very intimate experience and not intimate in the way that people generally think

about intimacy. Like it's not like, you know, loving or sexual or anything like that, but it's an intimate and very personal experience when you get tattooed. It's very vulnerable. So it creates, bond. Yes you see people that have tattoos who like they had a shit experience getting the tattoo and the tattoo itself might not even be bad but they probably don't like that tattoo because the dude that did it was a dick and

you're like I just don't want to be that. I hope I haven't been You're not I can tell you're not but you don't even have to be an overt dick yeah like it's a there's a layer behind that if you're carrying any kind of I don't fucking care about this day or whatever. You can hide it, you can still smile. That energy is transferring into their body. And they don't know why they don't really like that tattoo or when they look at it, they don't

smile like they smile when they look at this one. You know, you're embedding some sort of energy into them, exchanging energy with them. And you got to bring a lot of compassion and a lot of love and a lot of sympathy and a lot of patience and just kind of be their friend, really. You know, I always pretend like I'm tattooing my brother or my sister. They're not, but I'm like, how would I treat my brother if he was on this table? I'd

probably pause and ask how they're doing. Do you need another pillow? Are you thirsty? Do you need a break? Or without words, they can feel that. And I think that's truly important because of how that energy you leave behind. Huge, hugely important. I feel like there's people in the world who are more spiritually inclined and more aware of the energies around them and stuff. That's not really me. Like I've never been super into that sort of stuff just personally, not as

like a judgment for people who are, I think it's super cool. But I've never felt any like sort of particular way about that, like some sort of spiritual or like a wider connection to the world or something for me personally, but I feel it with tattooing. Like I feel like there is like you said like an energy transfer between you and the client like if you're having a bad day They're gonna feel that yeah, so you have to try and put it to the side. Yeah, but just be there for that so true well

Let's wrap it up with this. You are a young, well, I kind of want to say that. I don't want to disrespect you. I'm the old guy. Bear with me. You're 30 years old. You've been tattooing for 14 years. You have the fucking portfolio of a goddamn 50 year tattooer in my opinion. And beautiful. You have been, you are crushing it. I think you're a guy that could give great advice. into the younger tattooers. So

in the ending of this, what advice would you have? Because there is an army of people coming into this industry who want your spot in a good way. What's your advice to all these young folks that are coming into our game right now? What Oh, God, I'm terrible with these on the spot, heavy questions. Work hard, draw a lot, pay attention to what those before Good advice. Yeah, that's enough. That's good. That's good. Yes,

all those are true. And especially the work hard It's like, yeah, there's a lot of outside hours and stuff and just Hey, take good care of Good advice. Good advice. All right. Well, Jake, thank you so much for sharing your time with me and inspiring me. Your work is an inspiration to It's a pleasure. I appreciate that. Thank you. Like I said at the start, yours has been an inspiration to me and I really enjoy what Thank you all for tuning in. Please go check out

Jake Danielson at, is there an underscore there? At Jake Tattoos. No underscore. Just Jake Tattoos, one word. Jake Tattoos. He's in Melbourne, Australia. Yep. Big illustrative color composed work. Check it out. Some of my favorite stuff I've seen being done right now. And thank you for tuning in. We'll see you on the next one. Thank you. Peace out for now. Yeah, you're really...