The Dark Side of Tattooing ft. Derek Noble

I do use oils for black and gray still. Like I figured you'd say that you, I mean, no, seeing you hearing you, you, you got a real hard traditional, you know, rooting in you. Like I, I guessed at it by looking at your work and seeing some of the things you've done in your paintings. I'm like, this guy's Maybe not loyal to the coil, but you're still using artisanal I'm not. Yeah. I can't do, you know, like I see. Most of the people in my shop use those. There's only like... You don't use

cartridges either. What's that? You don't use cartridges? No, no, no. I've never used a cartridge. Okay. But I see people in my shop using them and I'm like, man, that looks so efficient and so clean and just like easy, you know, which there's something to that. I just don't know if I can do it, Chats and Tats with Aaron De La Vedova. Hey, everybody, welcome back to Chats and Tats. Aaron here, my guest today. Well, first of all, he is

a tattooers tattooer. I mean, this is one of those guys that all of the people in my own shop have his art hanging on the walls. I mean, he has created a voice in tattooing that is uniquely his own. Not a lot of people do that. It's beautiful. I look up to his art probably he's in the top 10 for me He's amazing. We get into a lot of cool stuff today. He has a very traditional Mindset

even though he's not an old dude. He's 44 He's been tattooing for 22 years, but he definitely is rooted in that old-school mentality You know, so I challenged him with some ideas about AI. I challenged him with some ideas around Numbing cream and even anesthesia tattooing and. Get some cool thoughts around it new thoughts things and maybe question my ideas around it so. That's the episode today. He is the owner of Dark Age Tattoo, which he's actually leaving and relocating, maybe the East

Coast. We'll see. So with all that being said, please welcome my guest today, the great and amazing Derek Noble. Bro! All the way from Seattle, That's not an easy journey. Appreciate you for that. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks Everybody, I'm here talking with Derek Noble today. A lot of you guys are tattooers, and if you're a tattooer, I know you know his work. I would call you a tattooer's tattooer.

Thank you. And I say that with all due respect. I wasn't. I mean, yeah, I've tattooed my share of tattooers, but I tended to be the people's tattooer. Like, I was doing the work that other folks wanted. But when you get into tattooers, they have their, they have a unique taste. It's kind of like a sommelier, the wine they drink. It's way different than the wine I probably drink. Or a chef, where he eats. Probably different than where I eat. And that's a, that's a, you know, compliment.

Like when you can attract, and am I right by saying you tattoo a lot of tattooers? I do, I do, yeah. And you sell a lot of your paintings to tattooers. I do. I know that because they're hanging in my shop and all the guys that work here, I see your paintings. Yeah, yeah. By the way, I'll say it just right out of the gate. Love your work. Big fan myself. Really do. Love your paintings. Thank you. Even more. And that's not a disrespect to your work. I just think

the paintings are fucking on another level. Thank you. And really what strikes me about your work the most, you know, it's just so rare to find people that create a look in their work, in their art. It doesn't seem to reflect somebody else's work. I'd really believe you've got this you you it's you it's it's Derek noble and it's no mistaking it I mean you see it, you know it

and it's dope and thank you You're welcome. And you know, I have to ask a little bit about this because I've always been curious about this personally I see in your work Tibetan art. Mm-hmm. Okay, I can see that Do you gain a lot of influence from ancient Tibetan texts? and things because the way you do your skeletons, the skin is sort of still, the ripples in the tissue, in the guts coming out. I've seen a lot of that with Kali and

Is that a big influence? Yeah, to a certain degree. I mean, I think probably the bigger influences are just like the medieval like religious panel paintings and stuff like that. But then when it gets to like the actual layouts and stuff, I really do like the Tibetan and even like Japanese influence of just like how things are laid out and like composition,

the composition of it. You know, the themes might be more of the like European medieval stuff, And I would add that what I see in it, a very traditional tattoo aesthetic. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like the merger of those three things is what I see. This Tibetan Eastern art, Japanese, Tibet, and then you've got your traditional aesthetic from tattooing. Right. And then composition from Japan. Yeah, yeah. If anyone figured out composition... They figured it out thousands of years ago.

You don't need to re-figure it out. The Japanese did it for us. Dude, they did it a long time ago. And it's just, yeah, it's like... You can't reinvent I've heard it said, third, third, third rule. Third black, third color, if you're in a color piece, third skin. Right. Have you heard that rule? Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's a good rule. It's a good rule. Yeah. The biggest one being,

I had to learn this because when I came in 32 years ago, new school was the shit, you know? Everything was packed with color. Everything was saturated. You didn't leave any skin. Right. And it took me years to figure out why is this looking not right? Right. The skin of a human body is your brightest color. Mm-hmm. Right? That's your white. That's your white. Yeah. Exactly. And yeah, maybe you can use white to highlight an eyeball, a glare in an eyeball

or something. But packing it all in like that, not a big fan of it personally. Yeah. And I see it in your work too, using the That's huge. Because yeah, you can pack a bunch of white in there, but it's not gonna hold up over time. No. You know, there's no real... Or peach or... Yeah. Light Yeah, no, you definitely have that balance to your work in your tattoo work and in your painting. Well, your paintings are a little different because obviously

it's a painting. Sure. Well, we're kind of going down your technique road, and I do want to go down that. But I think to get people to know you, to get this kicked off, You're a tattoo artist of 22 years. Right. You have owned and work at Dark Age Tattoo. Ten years. Ten years. We can talk about this later, but you're currently leaving that behind. You were born and raised Seattle. You live Seattle. You breathe Seattle. This is all in Seattle, Washington.

It's time for a change for you. Right. And you're, you don't know where that is, but you're looking at where that's going to be. Right. You're 44 years old. You're single. But let me have you tell your story. Like, I love the story of, like, how you end up here. Because where you are, it's a pretty unique position. I mean, you probably represent, we represent, you know, people that have made it in doing something in tattooing, 0.05% of

the population. I don't know the number, but there's not a lot of people out there. And it's always, I'm always curious, like, how folks get from regular life, you know, to this life. So tell us How did how did it happen for you? When I was like late teenager, started getting into tattoos, like wanting tattoos, got tattooed when I was 17. Ooh, Yeah. I mean, I mean, that was honestly, that was a huge part of it was just like I didn't want to work a normal job, you

know, like I wanted to work in a weird situation. I wanted that fucking like pirate, pirate excitement kind And by the way, 22 years ago, you probably got a taste of I did get offered an apprenticeship when I was 18, but I had just gotten a scholarship to play football. So I was kind of about to do that. Where at? University of Washington. I played, I got a scholarship to play linebacker there. I was there for two years. I was a stupid kid and wanted to do illegal

shit. You were a normal kid. Well, a kid isn't stupid. Yeah, I wanted to just party and do dumb shit. And so I kind of fucked up that whole situation. And then I ended up getting, leaving there and got a scholarship offer to Western Washington University, which is in Bellingham, Washington, which is like, an hour north of Seattle. So that brought me up there. I did that, played there. And then after like my junior year, I had a pretty good season

and I was just like, I actually didn't go to class at all that year. I was living on my buddy's couch, just drinking and playing football. And- Sounds like a good athletic program. Yeah, so after the last game of that season, I just told the coaches, I'm like, I'm done. Like, I haven't even gone to class this semester. And they're like, all right. And so I went straight to the tat shop in town and got tattooed

and asked the dude if he would apprentice me. And he was like, no, man, I'm not looking for an

apprentice. And so I did some... Whoever that was, you fucked up. I did. So I did some stupid jobs around town. And then I went back with like my sketchbook and stuff and got tattooed again, talked to the same dude. And then he was kind of looking through my sketchbook and he was like, yeah, all right, dude. And he, you know, he ended up telling me, he was just like, I knew, like, if I didn't take you, somebody else would. So, but yeah, it's due to Brian Ticklar up in Bellingham. He

How'd that go? You know, apprenticeships are so wildly different. Yeah. And there's not a... a set way. Yeah. Did you have to I did. It wasn't much. And, you know, Brian wasn't that much older than me at the time. I think, you know, I was 22. He was like 28 or something. So, you know, it wasn't like I was learning from like a seasoned 50 year old guy. Like an old, like gnarly biker dude. He had learned from a biker dude. So the biker stuff was kind of in in

the mix a little bit. But at the same time, and I mean, you know, it wasn't a lot of like He was cool. He was always really cool. We always respected each other. I mean, he would make me do some stupid shit, but there wasn't a lot of, like, hazing and, like, that kind of shit. Also, I was way bigger than him, so it was like... He knew he couldn't get away with it. But man, I mean, we're close friends to this day. How long was

your apprenticeship? It was two years. It was two years. I mean, I was tattooing after

Oh, yeah. It's the old ways. You got the jigs. You got the solder. Yeah, like making needle groupings and Coke cans and, you know, like, yeah, I mean, that was the majority of We used a loom. You ever used a loom? So you know what a loom is, right? We take a piece of Levi jeans, put it in a loom, and these needles suck, by the way. And Frank, I don't know if you're still alive, Frank Fumano, just

saying it out loud, I love you, thank you. I know it didn't end well, but I can now see the priceless teachings you gave to me, and I appreciate them. But I will say, there's one needle you taught me to make that fucking sucks, dude. And they were like, I think they were nine or ten rounds, they called them. So you do a grouping of a round, and then you'd push it through the jeans, and you'd look on the backside, because sometimes it wouldn't really spread

out perfect. But sometimes you'd look on the backside, it was just fanned out perfect. You'd drop solder on it. Now you've got this little round 9-10 needle thing, and that to him was like, this And I tried to make good tattoos with those fucking things forever. In my mind, they made sense. A round. Not a fucking mag. A mag is flat. I'm like, that doesn't make sense. Now I know that we all, you know, I don't know about all, but we all use MAC. I'm But not rounds to color in. No, no, no. Yeah,

we were trying that shit. Yeah. Anyways. Yeah, we use looms to make those fucking things. I mean, we'd make needles. And they would go through a sterilizer. So you'd have to check the needles to see how worn down they were. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I remember, you know, the other thing for me was always the thing I hated the most was putting my hand in the dirty needle bin and getting all those out, then like autoclaving those so I could pop the fucking heads off and then sand them

down and reuse all the fucking needle bars. I fucking Yeah, we all hated that. And not to mention, it wasn't really great Dude, for hours. I mean, that's the majority of what I did was just one of the dudes that worked there would go do Sturgis and like, I'd have, I'd just sit there for like weeks just fucking like huffing flux for just, yeah, I don't even want to think about that, buddy. Noggin Wood. I'm still alive. I'm 52. So I think you got a few more years in you.

Maybe. Maybe. Well, okay. So continue. You, you get this apprenticeship, do a couple of years, not disrespected, not hazed, you know, made to work, made Yeah. Did all the work, did all the, you know, had to, had to learn how to, you know, put together machines. And, you know, the first machine I made was one that I had to Frankenstein, you know, together between a bunch of stuff in the shop, you know, and like, you know, all that stuff. And I did my first tattoo maybe six, eight months

into it. But that was just on friends. You know, I don't think I was on clients like people coming in the door till, you know, a little over a year or so. I don't know. It was cool. Like all the guys that worked there always like thought that I had something to offer, you know, and so they were all pretty supportive. And yeah, there's a dude named Phil who came up to work there from Nashville. He ended up buying the shop, you know, I think a year or so after

he did. The shop went through a few different owners and turned it like a couple of different names. By the time I left, it was called Sabbath Tattoo up in Bellingham. It's still Sabbath Tattoo up there and Phil still owns

it. Phil's about my age when he came in and he had just been tattooing for longer than me and kind of been traveling around and seeing more stuff and had some people come up and guest up there because it's a small town and like when I started up there, It was like, you know, for the first three or four years, like the only tattooers I knew were the dudes in that shop. Like we didn't talk to other tattooers. No one did back then. Yeah, because it was like there

was like five other shops and it was all like, fuck you, fuck you. You know, you're taking my money, you know. So like nobody talked to anybody, you know, I might kind of knew a couple people, but like as far as my tattooing world, it was like the four dudes in that shop for, you know, and I would, you know, look at tattoo magazines and stuff and see all the cool shit that was out there, but never thought like, oh, I would know these people at some point or like I would, be able to

go travel around and see this shit. Phil came in and, you know, he had traveled more and he started having some guest artists come in and, uh, kind of got me. There's this dude, Lee Hanna, uh, who worked out of, uh, out of Reno and the Reno convention was the first convention I did. And that was the first time I was like, Oh fuck, this is tattooing. It's a golden nugget. It Okay, it's a fun convention Yeah, yeah, lady luck. Maybe that's

what it was. Yeah, lady luck at Circus Circus. And yeah, that's when I was like, oh fuck this is what tattooing is and I met all these tattooers and That's kind of what like opened everything up for me. It was like you're now exposed. Yeah world. Yeah, this is what it's about There's like hanging out partying with these dudes like learning shit from everybody trading prints You know, like, yeah, just all like that. That's what was there. I was like, this is all right. This is what I

want to do. You know, this is, this is definitely, this is it. So that era, if I'm right, the big movement at It was. Yeah. So did you dive into the. Yeah, I would say It's funny just knowing you now, thinking of you doing like a big Totally. No, and I did. I totally did, man. Like, yeah. By the way, I invented that. I'm joking,

I did a sleeve, and it's a pretty fucking good sleeve still. The layout, the composition, but I decided I'm gonna reinvent this shit, you know? So I do a human eye with eyelashes on the coin. It gets printed in all the magazines. I start seeing them everywhere. Everyone's doing them. You know, it's Yeah, but I know, you know, it's kind of cool. You made a little mark there. Yeah, but that definitely led me into my road back to traditional, what made traditional beautiful. Yeah. And

I won't get into that. But yeah, I'm just thinking of you, a guy that does the work that you do now, which is really based and anchored in a traditional aesthetic. Yeah. And picturing you doing these Absolutely. Yeah. Oh yeah. Dude. I mean, and that was the, I think that was the thing too, was those first like three years, like that was kind of the thing. And then again, when, when Phil came in, even the machines, I was, he's like, dude, try these machines,

you know, and I started using these. These other machines that he had and it was just like even using some of those like some of those machines it's like it almost just lends itself to traditional tattooing like it's almost like I don't know I just felt like I couldn't even pull off the new schoolie stuff with that you know I don't know it was weird Those machines were so... So he brought in some really rad, traditional machines. Yeah, totally. Well, I think what's happening there

is the spirit. Yeah. The spirit of the fucking machine can Do you remember the type of machines that he brought in? Anything Well, when I... Are you still loyal to the coil? I wouldn't say I'm loyal to the coil. I still use them. I still line with them. Okay. You're not cubing. No, no, never. You're lining with coil. Never gone cubing. I still, like, so one of the machines, the machine builders that

he brought in was Brian Hibbard. I started using Brian Hibbard machines, and I still use those to this day for lining. I had two, uh, shag ones. Those are, those are beautiful. They're awesome. They're like the most traditional I've always wanted to buy one. I never did. They're great, man. I mean, so I, I was like, well, fuck it. I'm going to use this because it's quiet and I forgot, you know, I'm trying to be sneaky and I got all the drapes over

all the windows and shit. And then I was like, fuck, this is an awesome machine. And

I've just been using those to shade ever since. The Okay, I do actually I do use oils for black and gray still like if I'm doing black and gray I still feel like I'm better with that I figured you'd say that you yeah, I mean no seeing you hearing you you you got a real hard traditional, you know rooting in you Yeah, I cast at it by looking at your work and seeing some of the things you've done in your paintings I'm like this guy's maybe not loyal to the coil, but you're still using

I'm not. Yeah. I can't do, you know, like I see. Most of the people in my shop use those. There's only like... You don't use cartridges either. What's that? You don't use cartridges? No, no, no. I've never used a cartridge. Okay. But I see people in my shop using them and I'm like, man, that looks so efficient and so clean and just like easy, you know, which there's something to that. I just don't know if I can do it, Let me tell you right now. I've been on a wizard stick for over 10 years.

Dude, I mean, masked people have. And like, I don't, I'm not, I definitely am not like throwing any shade on anybody that has. Right, right. Absolutely not. Because whatever works for you, works for you. And that's great. I agree. I mean, whatever works, if you can make a great tattoo with it, I don't give a fuck. Hand poke the shit. Yeah. But what keeps you there? What keeps you from jumping the I don't know. I mean, I think part of it is just like part of it's just, you

know, having to learn something new. I think that there's advantages to the stick and like, especially travel wise. I'm like, Oh dude, that's so much easier than packing all this shit here. Yeah. I don't know. I think it's part of like some people like classic cars, you know, some people like, you know, a 57 F 100. Some people like a Tesla, you know, like, right. It's what I figured you'd say, you know what I mean? It's kind of, what's your,

What's your... What do you like? Yeah. Because you can do a beautiful tattoo It's just kind of what are you into? I appreciate it. I do. And again, I've been using Bishop Rotaries for over 10 years now, maybe more. So you were like, you were... I was right on it, right in Yeah, because I have this part of me that's, I'm just so focused on efficiency. I'm like, I don't give a fuck, you know, with my cars, with my life, you know? So when they came out, I just got one, I tried it. I'm

like, it does it, it's quick. I got one machine, I've got seven cartridges, you know, whatever I need that day. Boom, boom, boom, I'm moving through it quick. And they're powerful too. I mean, the Packer is the original rotary from them. That fucking thing moved ink. You know, and I made a career out of pretty large work and I've got area to cover, you know, and it made it quicker and it made it efficient. And that was it for me. I just stuck with it. And yeah, of course, I

do enjoy the travel aspect. I also enjoy the sterility. And I know your shit's sterile. It's just that with cartridges, it's so plain. It's like, boom, the fucking cartridge goes in, Nobody has to scrub tubes. Nobody has to clean tubes. That was a big one for me too. And you know, no one even cares anymore. But back when I made a rule one day here at Guru Tattoo, and I was like, look, we're all using cartridges. And oh boy, I think half

my shit quit. They were just like fuck you and I'm like, but my thing was always like look I just wanted to be the cleanest shop ever I don't like that fucking autoclave room. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I had the best autoclave on the market I've got people trained

to use it, but that's a machine and maybe it fails. Yeah weird we can avoid that whole thing, you know, and so that's that was my motivation and we're there still but I I have a tremendous, I get what you're saying, like using authentic equipment, handcrafted authentic equipment, it brings a mojo. Yeah. You know, it really does. And I will admit, like there's times where I miss it, you know, and I probably should break out. You know, my old

machines are mostly 1.8 machines. I built my first machines, well, I built my our first machines with Frankie, but you know, later on I built some really nice stuff with, he helped me learn that shit and how to wind a coil and do all that. And it was, you know, the artisanal aspect to it was dope. That's the coolest thing is like, I don't know. I think that's the magic with the coil machines is just like, every one of them is so individual

and like. They each have their personality. They have their, yeah. And you know, like, oh, this one's going to do this that I want to do today. Or this one's going to do that that I want to do today. You know? Yeah, they all have their little bit of magic and, you know, kind of the difference between buying like a print from somebody or an original where you're like somebody like, you know, you buy an original and it's like somebody sat in front of that thing for hours. Their

skin cells are in there. Yeah. And like with this machine, like this dude sat there and fucking built it. Some of his sweat is in that coil. Yeah. He spent hours just looking at this thing and making sure it runs perfect, you know, and like, Yeah. So there's a little bit of magic in all those. And that's the thing is not to take away from the wands and stuff like that. But, you know, those are just like mass produced. There's just no real there's no soul in it. You

know what I mean? Compared to hand built little piece Well, and I mean, honestly, I think your work reflects that. You know, and it really is, I say mojo, but it matters. Like when you, the equipment you use, the emotional connection to that equipment, you know, it'd be like watching a really great guitarist getting on stage and he's already a great musician, but he's going to play this song today with a guitar his good buddy made, you know, they went and found the wood, they made this

guitar. There's going to be something coming through in that music that's different than if he just goes down to the guitar shop and buys a Fender. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And those are handmade too. Maybe guitar isn't the best example. But I get what you're saying. I respect that. And there is a part of me that wishes I was a little more, and maybe I mean, it's kind of nice to bust out the old stuff every

once in a while. And even with the, you know, like I said, using the shag ones, I mean, I think that's kind of like an in-between, you know, I know he CNC's those and all that stuff, but like, I know Mike and he's a fucking great dude. And like, he puts a lot of love into all the stuff that he does. And, and so it's kind of that, like in between of like the handmade coil and the, you know, just mass

produce thing. But even that sometimes, you know, I'll be like, you know what, I'm going to just use me, use my coils instead of that, you know? And it's just, it kind of just a little different feel, you Well, each machine is an art project. You're holding a I mean, otherwise you're using a, you know, a product, a well-made product that does the job for sure. But holding a piece of art in your hand while you make art, that's pretty cool.

You know, have those two happening simultaneously. And Shag's, his rotaries are probably the most beautiful I've ever seen. They're just gorgeous. I was going to buy one just because of the sex appeal of those different things, you know. And if I remember correctly, they They're just straight rotary direct drives. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm thinking of something else. I think you're thinking about, well, Cubans are... Are sprung.

He's got springs. Yeah. He's got like four springs on some of those things, man. Oh, by the way... Those things are wild. You ever been tattooed by one? Yes. Okay, so you can help me verify this because I just got Mike Boyd. What's up, brother? He did a nice little piece on the back of my Achilles tendon. Some mushrooms. It's dope as fuck. Solid as fuck. Of course, Mike Boyd, right? Ouch. Yeah. Fucking ouch, dude. I'm like, he got that Cuban out. I was like, oh, fuck. I've heard about this.

Yeah. Would you agree? Yeah, fuck yeah. Those things fucking hit. Yeah, they rip. They hit, man. They rip. Yeah, they rip. They rip. So now, that's cool to hear. You know, now you're in it to win it. You're off and running. How do you end up in your own shop? What happens next? Now you get exposed to, you know, you go to a convention. You're like, holy shit, look at this world out here. All these tattooers, all these new techniques, all this stuff happening. I

Yeah. And you start getting, you know, it was cool to like have this body of work that was in this small town and then getting out there and like having all these other tattooers be like, that's fucking cool. You know, like never seen it before. And like, you know, feeling some And at this point we're talking, you're about to, you're, you're at the three year mark It was, ah, no, it was pretty, pretty different. But it was, like, I got really well known in

my early career for doing, like, these, like, girl heads. Traditional style. Yeah, traditional, like, geisha-ish, like, dead girl heads. You know, they're always in, like, blue with, like, you know, maybe, like, a severed head kind of a thing. So I got well known for doing those, doing a million of those. So it was definitely a different style,

but it was kind of the steps to get where I am now. You You gravitated early on towards traditional aesthetic, even though at that mark, we're talking you're a 22 year tattooer. This is three years in. This is 19 years ago. Yeah. So traditional, if I'm remembering correctly, was not the biggest request yet. You went towards that. I liked it and like the guys that I respected and that I liked were doing that too. And then I saw like this dude Jay Cooper who's out

on the East Coast. He was doing just like some wild like really dark You know like demonic kind of stuff, but real traditional style and it kind of like click with me like oh dude You can do you don't have like if you're doing traditional like you don't have to do like Sailor Jerry You don't have to do this exact stuff like you can use that stuff and do like wild shit, too So that's the beginning of

your of your true voice. I think so yeah like like when I saw his stuff it just it hit me and it was cool to be able to like hang out with him and meet him like me and him are good buddies now and like learn that you can do whatever you want. You know, you can take those building blocks of tattooing and turn them into whatever subject matter you really want to, you know? And I was always into horror movies

and I was always into metal and stuff like that. I'm just gonna go there because there's a lot of darkness. Yeah. Demons. Totally. Guts coming out of skeletons. Right. Yeah. I mean, I'm, I've been a horror movie like kid since I was six years old, seven years old. I've been into like metal since I was that age. The metal, the movies, all that kind of stuff are always huge influences for me. So I always liked the darker shit. And then it was just, you know, starting

to do like painting that stuff. And then people being into it and being kind of like, oh, shit. All right. People want to get this tattooed. And it just kind of fucking snowballed, you know, from from there. Very cool. All right. That's your story. I like it. And no, we didn't finish the story. So now you start getting your you exposed. You Billingham got it's a small town. I ended up getting in some trouble with the law. And I was like, I kind of need to get out of

here. So I ended up trying to figure out where I was going to work in Seattle. There's a shop called Lucky Devil. Glenn Gosnell owned that. And I went down there. I was doing a guest spot at Liberty. I was back when Matt Areola. I was working there doing guest spots. I went to Lucky Devil and was like, hey, I'm just looking for a job. Ended up getting a job there. So I moved back down to Seattle and worked at Lucky Devil for six years. And it was awesome. There was some

issues going on with like ownership. I'm not I don't want to get into details with it, but there was stuff that was going on with like ownership. And, you know, I was just kind of a dude that like I just came in and I worked. I was a grinder, you know, like I'd come in. I did three appointments a day. I would

On that note, though, I'm going to pause you for a second, because this word grinder. You know, you had told me earlier before the show started about your time in college football and the routines that were put upon you, the work ethic that you learned, right? And you brought that. I mean, that's what I'm hearing. You brought that to tattooing, you know, this get up, fucking go work hard. That's just a thing that you have to have in any career if

you want to crush it at anything. Insurance salesman, I don't care. That's what it takes. And our industry is a little bit, maybe I'm wrong, but I think it's a little bit more high percentage of folks that think tattooing is a chill job. That's why they want to do it, right? You can kick back a little more. You can, you know, sleep in, do this. But what I'm hearing out of you is you didn't bring that kind of mentality to tattooing. You were more like, you know, what you

learned in college ball. Like get up, work your fucking ass off. move forward. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Oh yeah, please. By the way, everybody, we are having some really nice bourbon today. It's a new one for me. Let's see the name of this stuff. It was recommended to me by a buddy. Bribery. What No wonders I'm feeling a little silly. Feeling a little silly in here today. Yeah, it's a good one, it's a good one. We'll see if that bottle's still there when we're

done. Yeah, but no, I just, I want to highlight that. The work ethic that you brought into tattooing was probably, did you notice yourself being a little different than the others around you? Like the sleeping in, not really giving it your all. I know you partied, But you were probably one of those guys, work hard, play hard. Yeah. I don't give a fuck if I was up till 2 a.m. Absolutely, yeah. I'm still getting up Yeah, yeah. I think, I mean, I learned a lot of lessons of,

yeah, work ethic, you know? And honestly, like, even before that, like, I mean, the way that I got to where I got, you know, in playing football, you know, my dad Always was training me since I was a little kid, you know, so it was just like dad was in there. He was always like, you know, the Little League football coach

How disappointed was he when you left college ball? I Yeah, I mean, honestly, like he he he got it even even before like when, you know, he got me to that point of like when I got the scholarship and then it

was kind of like, OK, now it's you. You got to deal with it, you know, and and even like right then when I got the scholarship before I even went to UW, I was like, dude, I don't know if I want to do this anymore, like busting my ass for so long and like all my other friends are like partying and going to Like going off to college to just party and have a good time. And I just felt like I was missing out on a lot of

shit. And I was just like, I don't know if I want to do it. He's like, dude, just give it a year. You know, he was never like, oh, if you don't do this, you know, you're not my fucking son anymore. You know, that kind of shit. Like. That's why I asked, because a lot of dads, yeah, a lot would. Kudos to Pops, man. Yeah, no, he's amazing. My dad's one of my best friends. He's still around today, I'm assuming. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's an amazing dude. He taught me a really work ethic, you

know, and then getting into the sports. And when I did get into college and stuff, I mean, you had to ramp that up even more so. But yeah, it did teach me a lot of work ethic shit and a lot of what you need to do to be successful, you know? Like, you gotta put So you're at Lucky Devil, you're grinding. You're a horse. You come in, you fucking do your three appointments a day and five days a Yeah, just keeping my head down. And then it got to the point where like

people were like, yo, I'm leaving. I can't handle this anymore. And I was kind of like, what the fuck's going on? Like, I don't know what's happening, you know? So there were some things going on with the ownership and me and this dude, Jesse Roberts, who worked I checked him out today because you had mentioned him on some other YouTube video. Nice Yeah. Really nice work. He's great. He's, he was like, he was one of the reasons why

I wanted to work at Lucky Devil. Cause even like, Talking with people in Seattle when I was up in Bellingham, everybody was like, Jesse Roberts is the best tattooer in Seattle. Like nobody knows about him, but underground secret. Yeah, totally. And I was like, fuck, I want to work with that guy. Yeah, I worked with him for six years there. And then it

got to a point where everybody in the shop was like, We're leaving. We're going to we're looking for other places to work because we can't we don't want to deal with this shit anymore. And me and Jesse had the money to do it and just kind of the names to do it. And we were like, well, if we open a shop, do all you want to stay together? Because we all wanted to still be together. Minus the ownership situation. So everybody was

like, yeah, fuck yeah, that'd be rad. And so me and Jesse start looking for a spot and we talked to the owner and we're like, yeah, we need to have like a shop meeting. And so we all sit down and we're like, this is what's going on. Everybody wants to leave. Me and Jesse are going to open a shop because we all want to stay together. And she was like, we'll just buy this place. And we're like, okay. That's cool. It's already built out,

whatever, you know? So we go through our shit and we ended up buying the place, but I could never, I mean, this was a good life lesson for me. She was like, you don't need to talk to the owners of the building. Like just go through. I said, it's a problem here. We're like, all right. All right. Yeah. No problem. We just need to get this. We needed to make this happen. You know, business lesson. Yeah. Yeah. Total business lesson.

After, you know, we, we buy the shop and we were like, okay, we're going to change the name to dark age. Cause we, you know, we just want to move on from the lucky devil thing. So first month's going good, you know, we're starting to change like signs and stuff. And the owner of the building comes by and she's like, I never said you could do this. You know, like I never said anything about like changing the name or the signs or

whatever. And we're like, Oh, well, can we talk and she was just it was just really like weird like non communicating and stuff and So it got to a point where like the first couple months I was just paying her I would go because her office was in the building so I would just go hand off a check and it was all good and then Finally, I went up there one day and I was like, I need, can we talk? Like, can we actually talk? I need a lease. Yeah. And she's like, she's like, yeah, yeah. Come

in. And so I sat down and talked with her and she's like, she's like, Hey, don't tell anybody this, but we already sold this building. Like it's done. Like it's gone. And we're like, what? I'm like, what the fuck? So I just bought this shop that like. They're going to close down. The There's just, you know, they don't want to maybe re-sign you Yeah, no, because it's the you got to go. Yeah. Basically, like Yeah. So you weren't a

No. So, but it all ended up working out because there's a really cool spot down the street that we got into that we've been in for almost 10 years now. And it was, we wouldn't have got it if we were just two dudes that were like, Hey, we just want to start this tattoo shop. The dudes came by that owned that place and they're like, okay, you have a location, you got a thing, like you know what you're doing. So we got that spot and it's been great. It was amazing.

So, I mean, as much as that little hiccup sucked for the time being, it's what got us to where we were. As is life, my friend. how many times in our lives do we look back and look at the shitty thing that's going down and then reflect on it and be like, oh, that had to happen. Yeah, totally. That divorce had to happen. It had to. You know, that thing, you know, that's, I love that because it, you know, for those of you out there that are in the middle of that shitty thing, Yeah. Be

patient. Yeah. Be patient. Give it a year. Give it a couple years. Not always. I mean, there are acute tragedies, of course, that you don't come back from. It is what it is. Bad things happen. But life stuff, leases, business agreements, See where it takes you. It's probably just a nudge from the universe pushing The best spot. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So got there. We've been there for 10 years and it's it's it's been awesome, man.

I mean, all the people that have been through there working and the crew we got now, everything's amazing. It's it's been I love it. I love it. And this leads us to what you told me earlier, which is as good as it is, you're leaving. Yeah. You're selling your interest in that shop to Jesse. He's going to be the sole owner soon. And You're going to go get out there, move around. I'm going to see where tattooing takes That's cool. I've heard the East Coast is maybe on your list. Who

knows? We'll see. Everybody listening, we'll see. I think you had said like, look, born and raised Seattle. You know, I got to do something else. Yeah. in my Yeah, like I said, I mean, I'm 44. I was just like, if I don't do something now... You might never. Yeah. I'm going to be here the whole time. And like, again, nothing's bad there. Everything's great. And it is like, it just got too

comfortable, you know? Like, that comfort bubble is Well, I like that you say you think Will you feel it's holding you back and i get that like the hamster wheel of being in the same situation for for a lot of years specially born and raised in the same city but what you've done in this hold back vibe is incredible so i'm excited to see what you do when you just get out there these new inspirations this new city

this new life this new everything. Because there's going to be a new level to your game, which I No, that's the goal, right? To bring it up to another level. And I think it will go up to another level. And I'm excited to see Because what you've done already is incredible. Thanks. I mean, I think I said this earlier, but it's very rare to find artists that have a unique signature. It doesn't seem to echo other people's work. And I think that's what you've created. Fucking amazing. Thank you.

Your own special look, your own special frequency. And, uh, That's cool. Yeah, me too. I mean, I'm going into it with no, no expectations, just. No, I needed a, I You got to follow your heart. Yeah. Yeah. The gut was telling me it was time, time to move on. So, and it was hard. It's hard choice to make, man. I mean, especially when it's not like, It wasn't like things were shitty, you know, like if stuff was super shitty and it's it's easy to be like, OK, fuck this. Like, this is awful.

I need to move on. You know, it's like things are good. Things are good. Things are comfortable. But it just wasn't. It's Yeah, I mean, I have moved a lot in my life. I have been here in San Diego for 25 years, I think now, and met my amazing wife here, kids, family here, businesses here. I'm here. Yeah. But I had what you're about to do. I already done that. So, you know, I found this place I anchored in. This is where it's going to end for me. Totally. God, that sounded a little dark, but

probably true. So no, I think it's a great choice. It feels right to me.

I think you're going to love it. You know, being an artist is an interesting thing. It relies a lot on novelty, you know? And when I say novelty, I mean, as simple as eating at a new restaurant. You've probably eaten at the same locations for your whole life. Totally. You know, that whole town, everywhere you go, you're like, hey, Jake. Hey, Susan. You know, when it's not Jake and it's not Susan, and it's not the same number six that you always get off the

menu, it starts synapses. They change. Then you go home and you paint. Some new shit's coming out of you. Because you've broken up the channels. You've shaken up the mind. And you're gonna love it. I think this is a great idea. I think it's Yeah, it feels right. It feels like the right thing to do, you know? And that's gotta go through your gut with that shit. You do. Absolutely. Well, congratulations to you for being bold enough to do that. Most people would just sit back

in their little money. You've got this shop, residual income, got a house. Yeah. I just chill right here. I don't have to work too hard. Appointments are lined up. Everyone knows me in town. You're going to abandon all of that for For the unknown. Yeah. Respect. Just hoping that I can make You're gonna make it work You're well beyond that point of like maybe there are people out there. I would say we'll see how that goes But that's not you. You're gonna do great, and I'm excited to

see what you what you make of it. Thank you All right, we've established your story. Yeah, and maybe not all of it, but yeah the highlights the highlights I gotta get into some questions I have for you because Well, you have this love for the traditional, this love for the soul that goes into an artisanal craft. I love that about you. So Yeah, I've never used it on myself. I would prefer not to use it because I do feel like, I will say this, I'm okay with Bactine. I feel like Bactine's all

right. Give someone a little cool down. Just a little cool down, you know, Not on a regular basis, but- When you see someone struggling. Somebody's struggling, I will use it. If somebody asks, I mean, I have people show up with bottles and I'm like, all right. We're using it. We're using it. That's fine. I don't have numbing cream. I don't tell people to use it. But also because I tattoo a lot of tattooers that know about that shit, they'll just be like, hey man,

I'm- I'm coming in wrapped up. Yeah, I'm coming in wrapped up. I'm just like, all right, you know, okay. I don't fight it. It just Some of them work. There's a new product. I'll just pre-shout this out. It's called The Cream. My buddy John's making it up in, I say Los Angeles, but more Huntington Beach. He sent me some preliminary samples. Dude, I did a girl's chest the other day. She didn't feel a thing four hours. Yeah. I mean, just grinding her sternum, everything. Day by day,

Well, that's here. So that's the thing is I feel like there's a lot of people that shouldn't get tattooed, you know, because they just can't handle it. But if they really want to, then it makes my day way easier because tattooing somebody that you're like torturing is absorbing that energy. You do. You When you tattoo somebody who's in that state. Yeah. How It fucking zaps you, man. And it's just like brutal. Like, I don't want to I don't want to hurt people like that. You know, like it's like.

We don't take pleasure in it. No, I don't want to torture somebody for four hours. You know, that sucks. It doesn't make for a better tattoo either, because usually I'm just like, fuck, I just got to get through this. You start rushing a little bit. Just rushing it. You know, usually they're moving around a lot. You know, it's just a whole fucking ordeal. If somebody that can't hang, still wants to get tattooed and they have to do that, then fine,

It can. I mean, I've noticed it get rubbery a little bit here and there, but like, I don't know. I've never had it be an issue. Me neither. To where when I'm tattooing, I'm like, oh, I can't tattoo this skin. That's horseshit. That's complete fucking

It's just the biggest, like, poser cop-out... You can possibly do, right? I mean, tattooing, like you got to kind of earn it. Like even if you're putting numbing shit on, like you're at least sitting there like conscious for four hours. Like, dude, one, it's a total fucking rich person thing, too. It's just like if some do. I don't care if you're like a fuck the hardest ass MMA fighter in the world and you got your whole fucking body done while you were unconscious. You're

soft as fuck, dude. That's soft shit. That's super fucking Well, I mean, hey, look, I'll be devil's advocate here. Okay. Lucky devil's advocate. I see your point. I really do. But isn't it their experience, however they want? And now you don't have to partake in that. You don't have to fly to a surgical center and do it. Yeah. But why not? If some tattooer is willing to do it and some place is willing to do it and they want to spend fucking 50k, 80k.

Yeah, that's true. That is true. But I can also make fun of you really fucking terribly for doing that. Well, there's a look like you ain't you ain't like on my level. Like we we're not going to be fucking like friend. Like I can already tell. You know what I mean? Like what? We're not going to have much in common if you're fucking getting knocked out You're not going to be on the yacht that week and hanging out with them, huh? Yeah, no.

No, I have all those feelings too. I really do. But, I mean, I do have this part of me, it's like, look, I've come to this place where I'm like, look, it's your experience. True. Whatever you do is your life. Who am I to tell anyone what I do agree with you there. I mean, you know, it's everybody's own preference to do whatever the fuck they want. But like I said, you can do whatever you want, but I can ridicule you for it.

And you can say I'm not going to be at the surgical center tattooing you. Sometimes these guys get full. They'll get four tattooers. Completed the entire back piece in like one session. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I saw a video of that. How rad would it be though to wake up and be like, back piece done? Dude, but, oh God, think about the healing though

too. I wonder if that's, I mean, you can go to shock I Dude, I've done like, if I'm doing like a, there's been numerous times where I've outlined like a back and ass, you know, in like one session. It's like four or five hours of just, outlining somebody's whole backside. And dude, they're like by the end of it, they're like shaking. And like I've had people like they're not crying, like bawling, crying, but like uncontrollably just have like tears running. You

know what I mean? Like their bodies is freaking the fuck out. Right. So like, yeah, dude, I couldn't imagine like what your body's going through. I mean, they're doing it, so it must work. But I, you know, hearing your story and I've been in that moment where you see the emotional impact of that day for that person. Yeah. And they don't like it in that moment. But I'll guarantee you, if you ask those people today

Dude, totally. And like, even like, I mean, with my tattoos, you know, like I'm fully covered, like I'm proud of what I went through to get this shit. And I couldn't imagine being like, I have full body covered, but I don't remember, I didn't feel any of it. You know what I mean? Like, it's It is, it is, it is. And it's a thing and it's growing. It is. It's growing. But you gotta, apparently you have to have a lot of money to do it. Yeah, I've heard numbers,

weird numbers. Like tattooers are getting one I mean, that's... That's, yeah. You just got interesting. Now that's interesting. Come to work for the day. Here's 20k. I might For the record, Derek's open to the idea. Just Yeah, okay, we're in the same boat on that one. I just like bringing And it was talked about like 10 years ago. I remember people 10 years ago like, well, why don't you get an anesthesia? You know, they were saying that shit and I'm like laughing.

I'm like, that ain't gonna happen. No one's got a 100k. Because I knew it would take, you know, I know what that shit costs, surgery centers, all the insurance involved. And then here we are And just going under is like one of the most dangerous parts of like getting Yeah. The longer you're under, the higher the risk. Right. You know, knee surgery takes an hour. Right. Five hours. It's a long surgery. So you're basically saying, I'm going to increase the risk that I could die. Right. Because

I want this done quick and I don't want to feel it. Kind of an interesting, when you really just get black and white, that's what you're doing. That's crazy. All right, next question. AI art. Yeah.

Choo choo, here we are. I don't gotta draw shit. What's your idea? No problem. Boom! Here's 10 versions of it. Which one do you like? Oh, you don't like those? You want more traditional? Let me add the keyword traditional. Boom! More traditional style. You like those? Oh, you want that one? Number five? Here you go. It's a whole I like the way you put that. It is, right? I mean, I'm not... Yeah, I mean, obviously, we've gone through like I'm definitely more of an old older school kind

of dude. So, yeah, it frightens me a bit. But again, like I think it sucks for people, especially that are like graphic designers and like illustrators and shit like that. Like if I was a graphic designer and illustrator, I'd be fucking scared because that's going to be gone. It's Yeah. I tattoo a guy who works for Adobe. He actually doesn't work for Adobe. He is number three in Adobe executive, high level executive. He is the art director. So,

well, he's many things, but he has one of those things. And I don't want to, you know, if you're listening, sorry, bud, but you know, his estimates were like 80% of my designers are gone. Because you're going to have a few leads that just kind of oversee the AI creations, making a video game, making a movie. This stuff is, uh, it's a

rabbit hole. I mean, we're, we're getting down a bigger rabbit hole that we can go into lawyering or doctoring or what, what industries, the impacts and things, but our, our particular industry is, it's pretty directly. You know, the thing I always say is what I loved about tattooing my whole career was that I had something that most others didn't have, right? I could illustrate. You have an idea, I could make it happen on paper. And you had to come to me because I'm your gateway to it. Well,

that gateway is gone. I mean, it's not You have a choice now. You can go through the AI gateway. And let me tell you, I tell a lot of tattooers this, and they'll say to me, nobody's going to want that. And I'm like, you're talking to a generation that had an iPhone in their hand at three. Yeah. And let me tell you, I've talked to them. They don't give a fuck. Most of

them don't give a fuck. Most of them don't. The thing we were talking about earlier, the soul, the mojo that goes into a handcrafted piece of art, the original painting that's got skin cells from the artist and a drop of sweat in the paper, they don't care They don't care about, like, when I was growing up, being called, like, a poser was, like, the worst fucking thing, you know? The worst goddamn thing.

But like kids now, they don't give a shit about that. They don't care. Like if they worked for something, if they paid their dues, there's no paying dues. There's no like they just want the end result, however But in their defense, they are going to be OK. You said the kids, right? We're talking about 20 year olds or early 20s. In my opinion, these early 20-year-olds, I mean, flash forward 20 years from now, they're gonna be your age.

What do you think the world looks like in 20 years? Like they're adapting to the new ecosystem. I mean, what that means, how we feel about that is irrelevant. It's happening regardless. And you know, sometimes I look at my own daughters, I mean, one of them's 19 in college, but I have a 13-year-old at the house, and my wife will say, She's on her fucking phone. She's on her fucking phone. I agree. Let's get her off that fucking phone. But another part of me thinks she's also learning the

medium of the future. Of what's going on. Exactly. Like how the fuck is she going to work for some great company or strike out on her own without being wildly adept with her phone and every technology that's coming out next week. So, you know, on some levels I'm like, go ahead. Keep fucking with it get used to it. Yeah build armor around it because you know, that's the other thing She's like well, you know,

she's on snapchat. That's gonna fuck her head up. I'm like well or she's gonna build a defense mechanism to survive it because it's like a It's weird because it's beautiful and in some ways i mean a i most likely in my opinion is gonna could if it isn't manipulated by nefarious organizations which Dude, yeah. I think AI, there's some great things that it can do.

I think when you get into the artistic side of it, that's where it gets a little like, okay, now you're taken away from the human condition of needing to create and make art and make a living that way. That's something that human beings need to do. We need to make art. And now you're possibly taking that away from a huge amount of artists and Interesting you said that. So I'll challenge you with this idea. So you believe in evolution, right? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. The frog grows legs. Maybe

it turns into a snake. I'm probably getting that way wrong. You get what I mean? Yeah. I mean, sometimes when I eat enough mushrooms, I look at it and I'm like, am I just stuck in what I know? I'm witnessing the evolution of consciousness right into You know, and it's it's hard right because you're we are seeing when you say we're taking the human element out of Creativity out of life. All right, but what replaces it is something new then is that something

new? I mean I bad, evil, shouldn't be? Or is it something that can travel through space and time like we can't, carbon-based humans? Like, this could just be the teenage years of an evolution. Go flash forward a thousand years, people laugh at what you're saying. They're like, oh, yeah, right, bro. We're now living in, you know, universe Soltron. Right. And you were back there talking about bringing it back. And not that

I mean, yeah, and it can. I mean, you know, I guess what I'm thinking about is like my lifespan, you know. In your life. In my lifespan, where is this going to go for me? You know, I'm like, one thing that I think is good as far as being a tattooer is that at least it's still, it's, you know, like, and I could be totally wrong, but like, you know, it would be hard to have like robots doing tattoos on people. You know what I mean? Like. I'm going to interject. I know that it's possible.

It's going to be possible. I know it's possible. In our lifetime. Want No, no, no. I'm not disagreeing, but I guess I feel like there's people still, and I hope people still want that human connection. There will be. With tattooing, you know what I mean? And like, like with anything, like, you know, like people like shit that people make with

their hands too. Not everybody, not everybody gives a shit about that, but like people like to buy pottery that somebody made, people like to buy... original paintings and people like to buy a fucking table that somebody made. You know what I mean? Like, so I think there's always going to be that where at least we have a thing for a while, at least, of a thing we do with our hands that And that's why you spoke of my lifetime. Right. Look, my prediction, what you just said, will

become more valuable as this evolves. Yes. Right? Because there's going to be certain people that want artisanal, handmade products. That's going to go up in value, human-made things. Right. With drops of sweat, with pubic hair stuck Whatever. Totally. But like, you know, That idea of, like, robot or something that can do tattoos, you know? Like, okay, who's getting those, you know? It'd be somebody, people, like, walking shit that wants a little whatever, you know? And, like, they

I know. Give it ten years. They'll get a full fucking sleeve. But... But those aren't the people that want to get tattooed by me now. No, they're not. You know what I mean? So, so to a certain degree, like there's, there's a lot of people out there and tattooers out there that are like, okay, when people want what you do, they're You know? A hundred percent. Your career is not threatened. It really isn't. I don't believe that. Mine isn't. I'm at the end,

whatever. But no, there's always going to be

those people who want, and I think those people will be here a hundred years, maybe more. Right. You know, the value of a handcrafted thing a thousand years from now will probably be like the gold standard, like, my God, you're a real baller? Right. You paid My, you must be fucking a billionaire to get that done. You know, we're going to go up in value, you know, artisans are going to go up in value. So, you know, I don't think there's a threat to

I think that's interesting. It is interesting. I think the thing that freaks me out more than like the tattooing side of it is like, you know, some dude could just go in and be like Derrick Noble paintings or whatever, and just start pumping out shit that looks like my shit, you know? And get a sleeve. Yeah, that's what freaks me out. Or not even tattooing, but just making

And there's no legal, well, they're working on that, by the way. I talked to a lot of people in the deep in the space and the fucking legals around this are, it's a hornet's nest. I mean, but the idea is that there is a mechanism that can track where the AI gathers its information to create the product. And depending on the amount of information it retracted from you, a little check shows up for you, which, you know, if they,

obviously I don't have a lot of trust in that. I don't have a lot of trust in big corporations and what they do, but if they There's some fairness, but yeah, it would definitely be good I mean, yeah, they're fucking, because what does AI do? It gathers existing human, well, that's an interesting thought because right now, most of it's gathering from human created stuff, right? But we're moving into the time where it's data gathering will

It's just like, boom, we're over here. I mean, I think I think the thing like I grew up in the 80s So I feel like the whole Terminator thing, you know, it's just like it's always it just seems like a bad idea You know, like there's something about it that just feels like it's gonna fuck Well, hey, let's at least remember some of these robots are I'm kidding a little. Hey, I'm joking. But no, you're right. The idea

that... we all die is real. Yeah. I mean, the big thought leaders are saying it out loud and It needs to be reined in for sure. Like there needs to be some kind of. Oh, a hundred percent. But the problem with that is you have to have cooperation by all the big leaders, right? So yeah, US could make some policies to create some, some rules around it so it, we can control its growth. Yeah. But China's got to agree. That's true. Russia's gotta agree. That's true,

yeah. Why would they be motivated to be like, yeah, let's all tame it down. Yeah. They're gonna be like, fuck that, we're gonna go full speed. Yeah. So we tame it down, they don't. Scary. Yeah. It's a scary thought. You know, I think about it a lot. In fact, I think about it probably more than anything else. I really think in a hundred years, there's going to be nothing more Yeah. I mean, yeah, you're, you could definitely be right. It's

Yeah. I mean, I've heard, Think tanks say it's one million times more powerful than when we found nuclear power, nuclear bombs. One million times more capable of creating great things and bad things. So I think about it, not now, I don't lose sleep, I sleep well. I definitely, when I wake up in the morning, I'm always, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a thinker. I'm always like, Oh, where's That is a wild card. It is definitely a wild card. It's a I want to take a second to thank my sponsor sullen clothing.

If you guys are lovers of tattoo art or art in general, and would like to see that on your favorite t-shirt or hoodie, you got to go over there to check out sullen clothing.com. Ryan and Jeremy huge supporters of the tattoo industry, huge supporters of this show, great human beings, good friends of mine. So thank you for tuning in and now back to the show. Well, all right. Let me see here. I've got a list. Okay. I want to hear your take on tattooing. Past, present, future. This

leads, what we just did leads into that. Obviously, you can speak on past. You can speak on present. But I wanted you to project a little on future. Future? Well, no. Do all three. What was tattooing in the past? in your mind, what is tattooing now? It's evolving, right? The industry is Yeah, it's been, I mean, through our careers, I mean, it's been,

it's had drastic change, right? I mean, I remember when I decided to get into tattooing, you know, like, obviously, you know, folks weren't super stoked on that, you know, even friends, you know, would be like, what are you doing with your life? It was an outlier situation. Yeah, like, what... Which made it really... Yeah, what's going on? Which was like what I wanted. I was like, yeah, dude, you know, they're like, why are you fucking your life up tattooing? And I was like, no, that's

that's why I want to do it. Like, I want to get into some weird shit, you know. And then I, I remember then when it got like on TV and like there was that switch and then it was like. The TV. Yeah, you're right. That's the switch. Dude, when

There's like, there's like pre, I feel like there's pre Miami Ink tattooing and there's post Miami Ink tattooing. There is. Cause I remember dude, when that, the first episode of that show came on, me and like five tattoo, like tattooer buddies, we sat there and we watched it. And when it ended, we were just like, this is going to change shit. Like everything is going to be different. And it did. Cause then

after that, it was like, people would be like, what do you do? And I'm like, I'm a tattooer. And they'd be like, Oh, that's so cool. You know? And before they were like, Oh, do you hide the children? They're like, do you have another job? Like, I always got asked that like, Oh, what else, what else do you do? Like you can't make a living doing that, you know? Yeah. So that's present. Yeah. So then like, uh, yeah, presently, obviously it's, it's

good. I feel like, like right now we're in like a slowdown, you know, like everywhere I go and traveling a lot, everybody's a little bit slower. Everybody's a little bit, you know, some people are a little freaked out about how things are right now. And, and I mean, I think that's because a lot of people that have started tattooing, you know, Post TV stuff have just constantly been in an industry of growth, you know, like tattooing just been growing, growing, growing, you

know, and a lot of people that have. that are in it now haven't ever felt that downturn, you know. So I feel like right now there's that little bit of downturn for whatever reason. Obviously, like the industry is super saturated right now and might be a little oversaturated. And there's a lot of people in it that are that I feel are kind of hobbyists, you know, as it goes on. I think a lot of those people might I mean, I don't want to cut you off, but I think you're absolutely right. And

what I hear you saying is tattooing has reached its maturity. Right. Okay. Car detailers are saturated, but there are some that are killing it. There's many other, we are a regular industry at this point, meaning there are plenty of us now. And you're right. What you're describing, I call it the Renaissance, right? There was a, boom of growth, so robust that it

actually offended me. There was just absolute shitheads making six figures a year and laughing about it and fucking clients up and not giving a fuck and it bothered me. Well, I got my wish because those ones are

sweating it now. You, Derek, you're fine. You, I mean, I know you're fine now. Wherever you go, you're going to be fine because you have what it takes and you are all in. So am I. Yeah, yeah. You know, and so we're going to be fine. And in that way, I'll take a little dip. And I don't know if I even took a dip, but If there wasn't, I'll take it. If we got to do a culling of the herd. And it needs to Because this industry is a personal industry. You

take people's lives in your hand. You take people's spirit in your hand, their emotions. Yeah. If you don't handle that right, get So let's do that. It ain't going to be in one week. It's going to Yeah. It's going to be a few years. And you know, like, you know, after COVID, like everything blew, like everybody blew up for a while. You know, like people had that fucking government money and they were, you know, they had to expend a little bit.

Exactly. On YouTube videos. Exactly. And, you know, like everybody was like, well, I'm going to just do what it is, what I want to do for me, you know? And so everybody's getting tattooed. Everybody that I knew was just like, dude, we're fucking slammed. Everybody slammed for like two years. And obviously that pendulum is going to swing back and it's swinging back and it's slowing down. And, It's just the amount of people accessing the market are,

are bigger than the market. Right. A little bit. But again, the culling, right? Yeah. They're getting weeded out. Yes. So the market, Actually, our market is growing larger than most, insurance, lawyers, doctors. We are still growing at a slightly higher percentage than any other market in the country. So the amount of people that wanna get, these are facts, I'm quoting. I

have some people that work with me that tell me these things. But they are, the amount of people that just still want tattoos is growing at a higher rate than customers that need dentist work. Right. You know, so they're there. It's just you got all these yahoos in there. Right. Fucking soaking up a lot of it. But go on, because you were going here. Yeah, we'll see who's around. Yeah. And yeah, the ass clowns are going to get fucking ass clowns. I love that one. They're

going to get weeded out. I agree. I mean, and I'm I'm down for that. I'm down for a couple of years of just, you know, It might not be as lucrative as it has been in the past couple of years, but I'm down for a little bit of a like who's who really wants to be in this? And, you know, who's just fucking playing at it? Yeah. Agreed, man. Agreed. And the way I say that, you said it the same way with a little bit of intensity. Look,

I wouldn't say that if we were talking about being bricklayers. Look, You know, maybe you don't lay the best bricks, but it holds a building up. Fine. But we deal with, you know, a human experience to such an intimate degree that if you aren't in here in the real way, you're hurting people. People deserve more. And I'm

And on top of that, like if you, if you take bricklaying, like bricklaying isn't, it's a job. It's not a way of life. Like tattooing is like a, it's a life. Like it's a job that turns into, a whole way of living, you know what I mean? And if you don't want to be part of that, and you're just like on the, I feel like if you're just kind of on the outskirts, just doing it for money or stupid reasons, or just kind of like playing with it, you know, and you're not really in

it, then why, like, get the fuck out. Like, this is But like evolution, ecosystems will allow whatever And that has been allowed because of how... If the ecosystem allows that to thrive, it'll thrive. It'll thrive. Yeah. But look, I'm not here to argue with the universe. You know, if people can sit at their house, call it a private studio and tattoo their friends and neighbors and make a living enough for them

for the next five, 10, 20 years, Hey, go for it. But I predict those days are numbered and you're going to be looking for a new way to make a living unless you've just got some like, reserve income where you don't need to make much, whatever. But take the money aside. The spirit of being a tattooer is the spirit of caring about others. It's the spirit of being a creative. It's the spirit of co-collaborating with another human being to create a dream, a creative dream.

And when you bring that, and look, if you're in your garage tattooing people and you bring that energy, I bless you. Sure. But if you heard online that this is a quick way to make a buck, I don't bless you, but if it's there, take it. Yeah. But I have a feeling that that little, um, That fruit's going to rot on the vines. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And we're seeing it. Like you said, you talk to people in the industry pros that

Yeah. Played like towns where like people are like, dude, I'm just seeing shops closed down, closed down, closed down, closed down, you know? And but, you know, a lot of those shops are those shops that have only been there for two years. You know, it's like pop up, ride the wave. Yeah. Like, oh, I just I just learned how to tattoo. And like now I don't want to pay a percentage of somebody. So I'm going to open up a shop, you know, and I've only been tattooing for a year

and a half. You know, that kind of shit. That shit's going to it And you know, whenever there's great growth, there's got to be a great culling. You see it in plants, you see it in mammal populations. It's Yeah. And so that's, I mean, I guess that would be the future right

now, as far as I see it, you know. Probably some shit getting weeded out, you know, and the people who really want to really want to do it and really want to be in it are And there, my friend, wraps up this interview because you are one of those people. Oh, thank you. No, you are. And I respect you for that. I appreciate the fact that you're a tattoo artist. I know you bring all that to the table for everyone who has the privilege of being tattooed by you. So, you know,

Hmm. Before we go, let the audience know how to find you now, anything you're promoting, whatever The only stuff I got going right now, I mean, uh, my Instagram is Derek Noble 36. I sell my prints through MindsEye, um, creative. They do some Check him out, my friends. I have been in this for 32 years and you are talking to a unicorn right now. His art is on another fucking level. His tattoos are on another level. He's one of

those. So. check them out hundred percent and thank you for coming down from seattle i appreciate that thank you viewers for tuning in keep the lights coming keep the subscriptions coming please i am not to the place where i could just fuck around in here forever so those likes those subscriptions keep this show going if you're enjoying it share it with your friends and keep those dms coming because all those little love notes make me wake up and just

want to come down here and do it again. So with all that being said, let's Thank you, my man. Thank you, Derek. Yeah. All right. Cheers, everybody. See