Refusal to Lose: A Gift and a Curse ft. Josh Landan

when they were talking about this tequila brand, I'm like, well, what about like a beer? I mean, everybody drinks beer. And how come there's never been a beer from our culture, like real California, not like board shorts, Malibu, California, like real California, art and film and skating and surfing and the outdoors, like the way we all really live, right? And I thought there's never been one from us. And like, I can do it. I mean, how hard can it be? It was I'm feeling something in my spirit.

Hello friends, neighbors. Lovers of creativity and art. I'm assuming most of you are. If you're watching my show, you must love art. A lot of artists on this show. I am a craftsman. I am a tattoo artist. I'm assuming a lot of you got here because of that. But I do have a lot of other interests in life. You know, if you listen to the show, a lot of philosophy,

a lot of spiritual growth, a lot of hallucinogenics. I'm always experimenting trying to do different things trying to get as much out of this fabulous surreal experience of earth that i can taste feel and touch. And in that mix of everything somehow accidentally i guess i became an entrepreneur never even intended on doing so this was

following my heart. Find myself today owner of three different companies i gotta be a an owner now i gotta think like one marketing and budgets and all these things and i'm learning as i go luckily i have a beautiful amazing and very intelligent wife at home that holds most of that together so thank you holly even though she doesn't listen to my shows. I'll make her listen to this one. So with all that being said, I'm very interested

in all walks of life. And the gentleman I have on today is a lot of things, but a big part of his story is his success as an entrepreneur. And that's great. And there's a lot of them out there. And it's cool to talk to people that crush it and make money. And that looks great on Instagram. But you know we had a quick phone call the other day and we were talking about what that really means you know this man is married to his wife to fifteen got three kids. And things

might look pretty now but the road to get there has some major prices to be paid i know i pushed my family to the brink of the right to the edge in my entrepreneur life so. Yeah i think digging into that a little bit and getting down to the realities of what it really takes to make your dream come true so we're gonna get into that and much more with that being said.

Please welcome my guest today josh landon thanks for having me thanks for coming yeah like i said out in the lobby you're a busy guy i'm honored you're even here i think it should be said to the audience right now. that you were You know, from a young age. Still do, still do. You still do. I do. A lot of pro surfers, skaters, these types of folks. Yep. But then at some point, you decided, I'm

going to go start a beer company. And then that's when you came to San Diego. You developed and founded St. Archer Brewing, which got sold to Coors. You went on to Harlan Brewing, which that has been sold to other interests. And then that led into your, the premier flagship of Ashland Seltzers, which is not a plug. I drink regularly. Thank you. Well, I can't, I mean, hey. Can't drink a ton of beers anymore. No. I hear you. It's a calorie. I hear you. Calories and also sugar. Yeah.

They're great. And I want to say this. I mean this. You have the best tasting seltzer on the market. I've tried them all. I appreciate it. They don't taste fake. They don't have that diet coke kind of after Burn or whatever you want to call it. So congratulations on making a quality product. Thank you. I mean, I think that's a game that everybody would like to play in. It's obviously like everybody, I've

met like so many, I'm going to make a beer cut. Everybody wants to get in there, right? Yeah. And so it's an easy landscape to just be there for the wrong reasons maybe. But I do believe you must have put some heart and soul And we'll get into that, because I have some questions, not now, but I have some questions about what Because I don't even know sometimes when I'm drinking, I'm like, is this a beer, a mo liquor?

What am I drinking? I don't know. I like a boo. Give me another one. This episode is brought to you by Sullen Clothing. I just got to let you know if you're into tattoo art and you're into Rad clothing. Check out sullenclothing.com. Ryan and Jeremy, good friends of mine, huge supporters of the tattoo industry, huge supporters of the tattoo culture and art culture. So, great human beings and they have some amazing clothes. Go check them out. sullenclothing.com now. back to the show. But let's

start from a little bit from the beginning. I like to hear a little, you know, it's always such an interesting story when someone gets to a place in their life with this level of success that you've created for yourself, how you go from

being a young filmmaker to a, you know, alcohol beverage mastermind. Yeah. I'll let you go from there and we'll find some interesting things to segue off Yeah, yeah. So I grew up in Ventura, just south of Santa Barbara in Southern California. And, you know, grew up surfing, like kind of skating, surfing, you know, typical kind of Southern California lifestyle. And quickly realized I was not going to be a pro surfer. That was pretty obvious when

I was in high school. And I fell in love with Taylor Steele's surf movies, who's from Solana Beach, and fell in love with everything about it. It's funny, like, was inspired by the surfers in them, but more inspired by Taylor Steele, which probably wasn't as common, right? And I'm like, God, making surf movies seems like would be like the best thing in the world. And maybe not even like making my own film, just working for Taylor and traveling around the world and filming

all these surfers. It just so happened growing up in Ventura, you know, the Malloy brothers, Chris Keith and Dan and Timmy Curran and Bobby Martinez, obviously Tom Curran in Santa Barbara, you know, and a very young Dane Reynolds. You know, I was fortunate just to grow up there and be around those guys. So, I kind of saved up and got myself a camera and right

out of high school. I didn't go to college. I was a horrible student. And then I played water polo, which is really the only thing that probably kept me from flunking out of high school. And then my now wife, my girlfriend at the time, Janine, we've been together, like you said, since we were 15. And we both went to Ventura College, community college. She did all of my homework and like, I didn't even get an AA, but if I was going to get one, it

would have been because of her. But once I kind of started, got a camera and just started showing up at the beach. And then, you know, Keith Malloy showed up one day and I just happened to film a couple of waves of him. And he said, Hey, Taylor Steele's making a new movie. Do you want to film me and my brothers up here? You should give him a call." Wow. And I went, it's the only call I've ever been nervous to make in my life. All this stuff later, I was like shaking to

call Taylor Steele. And he said, yeah, man, I'd be happy to have you film those guys. I'm making a new movie and, you know, much different than today's world. Like, I didn't ask how much money I would make. I didn't care about any of that. I just wanted to film those guys and be a part of it. And then, like, kind of one thing led to another, right? I made my first film when I was 21 called

Ark on Taylor Knox's Life Story. Is a pro surfer is a pro surfer from carlsbad and then made i don't know six or seven more films documentaries that are all based around surfing and snowboarding or skateboarding. I want a lot of film festivals and was like a working filmmaker started doing music videos and my manager is a director was pat magnarella who's green days manager and the dolls and.

So I was like, I was doing it. I was doing it. I mean, as I, you know, I was doing it for, from 18 to like 32, you know, I got married in there, had two kids in there and was living in Ventura. Like we, we, my wife went to San Diego state. So when I was making, when I really started filming for Taylor, All time and i started making films on my own we're actually living in san diego and then jenny was living in mission beach and i was living right

below usd. And then her mom got sick we move back to ventura and then stay there and until i had the idea for saint archer which. was as random as it gets i mean it was i wanted to explore that i mean you just described a dream scenario a lot of people know connected with the right people, doing things you love even to this day if you ask me what's harder being an alcohol entrepreneur like a working filmmaker i mean it's a toss

up. You know, like making a living being a filmmaker is not easy. I don't know, you know, and of course now, like now, you know, all the investor, a lot of investors I have are like agents in Hollywood and own studios and run studios and actors.

And I'm like, where were all you guys when I was like. Mid-twenties i was like trying to get like featured gigs and commercial gigs and it's funny how that works but but yeah i was on a surf trip with taylor knox and for the search event in puerto rico well that weekend andy irons passed away. Yeah. So it was literally that weekend, a tequila brand, you

know, wanted to have those guys involved. And, and when they, we were just talking about it and I thought about a beer and, and I had some friends down here in San Diego that were like, you know, talking about No, it was going nuts right then. That was the nutty time. Yeah, it was like Ballast Point was like just about to go nuclear with the Sculpin. Right. You know, Green Flash was selling a ton of beer. Stone was selling a ton of beer. Karl Strauss was

selling a ton of beer back then. You know, like the legend of craft beer here, Karl Strauss. And so yeah, like St. Archer really like was on the tail end of like the craft beer explosion, really. We just happened to be the first one to sell it, which is funny. Like we were last to show up and first to sell, you know? But I think when they were talking about this tequila brand, I'm like, well, what

about like a beer? I mean, everybody drinks beer. And how come there's never been a beer from our culture, like real California, not like board shorts, Malibu, California, like real California, art and film and skating and surfing and the outdoors, like the way we all really live, right? And I thought there's never been one from us. And like, I can do it. I mean, how

But it's like, yeah, I was, you know, my kids were little. I have a very supportive wife and I looked at the brands on the shelf and none of them spoke to me. What's crazy is coming from surfing and skateboarding, if you participate in that lifestyle, chances are you know pretty much everything

about the companies that are involved in that, right? Whether it's different brands in skating like Girl or any of the brands that we were attracted to, Supreme, or Volcom and Quicksilver and Hurley and all the brands, I know everything about them. And not just because my friends are involved with them, but it's like, I know everything about them. And I'd look at these craft beer businesses that we were drinking all the time and

Yeah. There was no like, or like, if you think about it, like how often are craft beer or, you know, back then, how often was like craft beer speaking to you outside of the shelf? Never. Yeah. Right. Only Bud and Coors, Miller, right? Perhaps a little bit Corona for sure. Like, you know, those even Modelo wasn't doing what it's doing now. Right. So I just looked at that and went, I could create a brand, like a real brand that could compete

with these folks. And, um, when you don't know what you don't know, you're just like, yeah, I Fuck it. I mean, there's a lot to be said for, like, having I always say, like, fuck it's my favorite mantra. It really is a mantra for me. Yeah, it is. And I think about all the good decisions that ended up being wonderful things in my life. Because the thing about that is there is no guarantees with any decision. There's no

guarantees the woman you marry is going to be with you for life. There's no guarantees having children and they're going to love you and you're going to love them back. Businesses, you can only, I tell people all the time, you can get about an 80% confidence on a decision. Yeah, there's no certainty in anything. And then, what do you have to say at that point? Fuck it. Yeah, I I love that. I mean, I couldn't agree more. So I, that was, jumped into, I went home and told my

wife, I'm quitting making movies and I'm going to do St. Archer. I wasn't even like a big drinker. So it wasn't your traditional story of, you know, I'm brewing beer in my bathtub. And then I got a storage unit and then I got a blah, blah, blah, blah. That wasn't it for me. It was I want to make a beer brand because I feel like I can compete and I want to do it in San Diego because I want to do it. I want it to be sink or swim. I don't want to be the biggest fish in small town Ventura. I

want to be a big fish in the big pond. And so I'm going to go put my balls on the line in San Diego, which was, was, I don't even think you may, you can dispute it maybe a little bit with Portland, but this is a crappier capital of the U S especially then I got, you can't really not sure you could really argue that. So it

was like the most competitive situation you could put yourself in. You know, luckily for me, the next weekend after I had the idea, I was with Mikey Taylor, who was a pro skateboarder and, At the time, the face of DC Shoes, Paul Rodriguez, who's one of the most famous skateboarders of all time, and the face of Nike, I

told them my idea. And if it wasn't for Mikey and Paul coming in to help me, they put in the first $250,000 to even get me to move down to San Diego, to get the business started, to even put us in a position to raise three million dollars which i didn't even know what a capital raise was i had no idea i didn't know how to set up a company i didn't know how to do anything i didn't know anything about beer i didn't know anyone in the beer business and i just moved down here i love that man i

mean this is just a testament to a strong enough vision and belief in something yeah the other pieces have fallen to place eventually yeah they did and and a wife who like You know, like I was telling you the other day, you know, a lot of people, you know, male or female, husband or wife or spouse, whatever it is, their dreams die with the other person. So like, in a lot of cases, I would have said that to my wife and a lot of women or a lot of men, if the roles are reversed, would have

said, are you nuts? We have two little kids, three years old and six months. We're all of our best friends are in this city. Our, our family's in this city. Like you want to move us to do something you don't know anything about? No. Yeah. And she was like, I'll find us a place to live. That was it. She's still to this day, the only person in my life that's never said to me, what if this doesn't work out? Never said it. Not Wow. Kudos to Janine. I got one like that too.

And like I was saying, not to go kind of totally off subject, but I think that's what makes it hard too when you have somebody that supportive and you're putting them through the ringer. They're supporting you and you're making it hard on them. That's a gnarly place

Yeah, you know, as I was going to say, ma'am, but it could be a woman or a man, but there's like some of the bread winning, um, role falls on to usually sometimes it's both, but usually one person. And in my family, it was me and your family. It sounds like it was you. And, and when you want to put that all at risk, you know, cause that's, you, you go to bed with that stress. Like, they're counting on me to get them somewhere in

life, to pay this mortgage, to make sure they go to college one day. And I'm out here risking all of it. And I'm like, there's a possibility to fail here. And what's that going to mean to my family? What's that going to mean to me and my own self-esteem? And what's that going to do to us? So it's an all or nothing moment Yeah, it's funny too. Like, you know, if I was giving you the honest answer, I would say, I've never done anything for any of them.

That's straight up. I did this for me. Like I did this because of my drive and what I wanted to do. And like, you know, a lot of times I think when people not saying you're not being truthful, but I think a lot of times when people say, well, I want to do this for the kids and blah, blah, blah. Do you? Or are you just like, you want to say that, but it's really always been about you. And like the fact that you had things that you wanted to do and you have that personality that like, Like

I was saying, it's like you're an addict. You almost can't even help it, right? You have these things in you that you have to do. Like, I have to do this. And that could be driven by, you know, something materially that you want, like insecurity. Maybe you want approval. Maybe you want whatever, whatever it is, whatever's driving you. I never did it for them. And that's It is honest. And I agree with you. When I look at my own career, I

needed to be an artist. I needed to be a tattoo artist. It led to all these different things, but it was definitely coming from my dream. And I happen to have a wife who was cool with taking that ride with me. But I mean, at the same time, I knew that my dream at least had the possibility of providing for a family. You know, you got people out there that follow a

For sure gonna fuck the family that's like I think the difference is like the confidence we have in our ability to be successful I never I knew I was gonna be successful like I never I never, even when I was young, when I was 17, 18 years old, I was never like, you know, I'm going to have this job or that job or these run of the mill careers. And there's nothing wrong with that. That just wasn't in me. I always knew that I was going to be successful no matter what

I was going to do. I just didn't know exactly what it was. But I never wanted to just kind of do the status quo. You know, I always wanted to go against the grain. And if you told me I couldn't do it like everyone has fucking told me I was doing it You need a little bit of that spirit to succeed in these realms. Definitely. No doubt. I mean, you're, you know, starting off as a young filmmaker, already you're proving that's the type of guy you are. You're just like, it's kind

of like what's the same with me. I remember people around me being like, you're It's 30 years ago. You're going to be broke your whole life? You cool with And I'd be like, fuck yeah, I am cool with it, you know? Because I mean, Thank God for them. And I know you're the same way. I knew if I was to do that stuff, it would have killed me. Oh, I for sure. I would have become depressed. Just having a boss. Yeah, even

I couldn't have pulled it. I've only had one job. I bus tables and then bartended a little bit at a place called Brophy's in Santa Barbara. It's like a little fish restaurant in the harbor. That was the only place I've ever had like a real job. You know, actually I enjoyed it because I maybe I knew like that was like my only and like looking back there's something nice about just There's something nice about that. I haven't experienced it since, but um...

But yeah, anyways, yeah, it was... It's a trade-off, right? To be an entrepreneur, there's all these benefits, right? Freedom being the biggest. Well, I want to say freedom, but man, we do have bosses, us guys. Definitely. There are requirements every day that you can't miss. So in a way, there's a boss, an unseen boss in there somewhere. It's on you. But we do have the freedom. Like if I absolutely need that week off, I'd fucking

take it. I don't need to ask anybody. But you do carry with you I don't like to use the word stress because i have a new belief that stress doesn't exist just and i hate even. Acknowledging to my own self that it's real because i think it's a made up thing that we attach ourselves i was gonna

ask you about that because the path you took a lot of people would say that's a highly stressful path it was it is. And on that note, let's talk about stress. I always say this, what is stress? I go, well, let me think how I'm feeling right now. Some would call this stress. What am I feeling? I'm feeling some anxiety. I'm feeling like there's a lot to do. I'm not quite sure how to get

it all done. And I just sort of break it down into these pieces and I don't it's not stress anymore It's just a little bit of a uncomfortable uneasy feeling a lot of my play Not quite enough time to get it all done. And then I just look at it and call it that Yeah, and don't even use that s word. Yeah, you know and I mean i've had mental health Challenges for you

know, probably since my early 20s. I'm 45 now mild depression generalized anxiety, OCD, you know, I think a lot of the reasons why I've been successful is because of Um, it's also made my life and people around me is life really challenging. You know, you're dealing with someone that you're going up and down often. Right. And you kind of, you're, if you're in that kind of circle, you're riding those waves with

them. And most people don't want to do that. And so I think, you know, when you're OCD and you have all these, like, you know, that's the reason why all these things have gotten off the ground. That's the reason why they've been so successful is because I can't stop. Right. I can't turn it off. And at least I couldn't. I've gotten much better at it now, you know, like, but struggled for 20 years with it, man, for sure. Even if you asked me, was it worth it? I would say, I'm not sure. I'm not

sure it's worth it. Cause I can tell you, you know, I've gotten everything that I've sold companies. I've done everything that everyone says is like the dream and been the most miserable by a mile, had a miserable wife, had a miserable, like I, so I've like the cliched story. Everybody that, you know, says that's wealthy or like how's that they're miserable. It happens, you know, especially when you're not really motivated

by that. I wasn't motivated by the material. I just couldn't, it's like was an obsession and a competitive drive. So then when you get all this stuff and you're still miserable, you're going, dude. Yeah, fuck. You know, and then you're still going on the ups and downs. So then you're like, I would say, like, I started more and more brands just as like a fix to

like engage me again. I'm busy. I'm distracted when really you're just making it worse, you know, and you're making So I want to back that up a little bit because first of all this OCD thing. Because I look at my own nature, I'll guarantee you if they had Me too. And I would have been told that by a school counselor. Oh for sure. And then they would have recommended me be on probably some

medications. For sure. I would have, even worse than the medications they would have put me on, I would have probably took that on as an identity. See, I never was, I never even knew what that shit was. I would look at myself and just say, well, I'm just, I'm just hyperactive. Or I'm just ultra creative. I have to get, I get, I dive into this project and I can't look up until it's done. And I just didn't see it as a bad thing. I always looked at that behavior

as, Well, that's good. I mean, I work with these guys over here. They can't even focus for more than two hours. They have to, they have to quit. I'll go fucking four days straight. So I guess I'm going back to like, when I look at the, you know, I was just on a phone call with a friend of mine and, uh, he's having problems, you know, divorced and his daughter doesn't speak to him anymore. And, uh, it's a long story, but you know, she'd been going to these counselors. They've diagnosed her with

a bipolar disorder order and OCD. They've got her on, meds right now, you know, her self-esteem is, she's a freshman in high school, self-esteem is through the floor because she's attached. And I just think of it like, is this, all this labeling and counseling, I mean, I know, listen, I got to be careful here. A lot of people listening, I know there's probably pretty extreme cases. For sure. It's warranted, but I just think it's over prescribed and, I agree. I think with me, I think it's like, I

think you can say it depends on the person. So, so for me, when I actually accepted that I have all this stuff, like the self-awareness of how you act and how you treat other people and how, you know, how you treat yourself and like the, the, the self-talk in your head, like, and when someone finally started telling me, no, no, no, this is like what you're, This is like how you act towards me. You need to hear it. And

like I was, I'm a compassionate person. And so when I hear that I'm hurting somebody, if I'm not like meaning to do it, then I go, holy shit, I do do all that stuff. I've never done medication. I'm not against it. I just have never, I've never done it. I think there's people that need it. Like you, you do need it. I, I get nervous about being dependent on it. And like to be honest, I get nervous about like, does it take, if it slows everything down, does it take my

drive away? Does it make me like not care? Well, I don't have a choice. I have to fucking care. I have tens of millions of dollars of people's money for these things to be successful. So Yeah. You don't see it. It isn't an option. It's not in the cards for me. And then that's hard, right? Because you want to do that for yourself and other people, just turn off sometimes. It's Something yeah i go through these and i'm in a not that level and i'm not responsible for investors money which i

have friends it done what you've done. And i know i can almost put myself in that shoes like cuz i would take it you know you see some people don't take the two million dollar investment and you can tell in their mind. You're like thanks for the money i'll do the best i can and then there's other folks like you and me. I would be, I would take that so personally. Like, thank you for the money and I would say, you know, I take it very seriously. I'm

like, they, they're believing in me, right? So, you know, the refusal to lose is a gift and a curse,

man. You know, like, and it's a real thing. And that's, that's like what we were talking about from an entrepreneur's perspective. These are all the things that like, Why don't believe you can go to school to learn to be an entrepreneur it's either like a burning desire in you i also would have never told you when i started saying archer. That i was an entrepreneur i started one business that's not an entrepreneur your business owner and it wasn't until i sold it to cores and.

Was like i have more brands in me. that I want to like, I want to do that. I, there's, there's other things I want to do. And now if I was just a business owner, which is totally fine, I would have just stayed at St. Archer. I have plenty of friends that have sold their businesses and they work there for 20 years. And

There's only three real options, right? You're an employee, you're a business owner, or you're an entrepreneur. And so I think like people, they want to be the entrepreneur because it's sexy, but it's the least sexy of the three because of what it does to you and the people around you. You know because you're a driven, very heady place to live. There's a big difference. Because if I was an entrepreneur, I would already be selling my current businesses, taking it on to the next project,

the next project, where I tend to just grow my current businesses. I never really broke it down like that in my own mind. And it does take a different, you are of a different nature than me, because I'm quite comfortable building my little businesses and curating them and just being papa and my wife's mama. It's comfortable and I enjoy it, but I don't have this overwhelming urge to be like, all right, what's the next project? Let's

Yeah, that's me. It's like you, like I'm saying, you're an addict and you have to create more and more to satisfy that urge. And for me, it's businesses, it's brands. And it doesn't necessarily have to be booze. I have a ton of other stuff in my head that has nothing to do with alcohol. It's just like constantly building. Do you see a day where that part of you kind of Yeah, I'm getting there. Is it just age maybe? Yeah, I

think so. And like just priority on my family. You know, it's an interesting thing because if you ask me what's the most important thing to you i would say my wife and kids and it's not close but at the same time i'm not doing any of it for them but they're the most important thing which which kind of shows it's like this inner demon in you right you you just you you like can't not do it but this is what you love the most and i've always been a hands-on dad and i've always i like I would say I'm

best at being a dad. I could be a better husband. And I think I want to put more into that. And I feel like I know how to do all this. And I have great people around me. So it's starting to calm down a little bit. And I think when you run hot for 25, 30 years, you just get tired. I can't even imagine what I've done to myself. physically from like, you know, a legitimate 20 years of high-level stress. I'm sure I've just torched

my... But you never know, some people like, you know, everybody always says, you know, it's too much. You're doing, it's too much. You know, everyone, all my friends, all my... It's too much. But it's not too much for me. You know what I mean? It's like, it might be too much for everyone else, but it doesn't feel like it's too much for me. And honestly, I'm in a better headspace when I'm busy than when I'm just like, kind of looking around going,

No. No, like golf? I hate golf. I don't like golf either. You know, like I'm not, and I, I surf now, like I don't need to go hang at the beach all day. Right. You know, so like, I don't, That's not me. Like, I do enjoy it. I think it's like, I've had to learn how to enjoy it. And Yeah, and you were talking about what it does to a family. I agree. But I mean, to me, it's how you define marriage. For me, it's like me and my wife are here to support each other in their dreams,

right? I mean, luckily, we have a lifestyle that we do get a lot of time together. But I mean, if my wife told me one day, I want to become a mountain climber and I need to spend four months in Nepal, My answer would simply be all right. Yeah, sounds good. Yeah, but I this marriage isn't about like me capturing you Yeah, and and having you at home cooking me dinner. This marriage is about You're gonna find dreams and and passions and

i'm gonna back you. Yeah, go do you yeah, you should do the same for me for sure And when it comes to the kids, because I've definitely, my wife, a little more has said things to me, like crying and saying the things we've missed because of our busy schedules with our businesses, we should have been here for this and been here for that. And I, maybe I'm just defending myself, but I look at it, like, look at what we're teaching these, look at, they're watching two people live to

their fullest. And I think that's of more value than me being at every parent teacher conference and all these Yeah, I just know you're worried. I mean, dude, you're working hard. I think it's like, you know, you're working hard, you know, like my my kids have seen that. And with me and I mean, Janine has a hard job with them, like just being with them, being a stay at home. It's hard. It's like the most thankless job, you know, and she you know, they don't really appreciate her

always being there for them and doing things for them. Like, wow, I never had that. My parents were never around. They will when they get older. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I think like, I've always said too, like if there was a time where, if it was like, hey, Josh, it's like us or like you doing more businesses. I think a lot of people like me choose like, this is who I am. I'm going to work and blah, blah, and you're not going to stop it. And that's why I see a lot of these guys or girls, I

guess, getting divorces and they have multiple divorces. I would choose them over the businesses in two seconds. There is no scenario in

which they would come after my desire to create more. Never. It pales in comparison, the And you're lucky to have a wife who understands you. She understands how you're wired. She knows that you're better off out there doing these Just like on vacation. Like we're in Hawaii. We love Hawaii. We've been going

there since we were kids and Hawaii's meant so much to us. But like, She knows that i in the morning just let me like be on the phone for like a couple hours before everyone gets up and i do some emails and like work, i'll be have the best vacation like turning it off for like ten days no, it's just not in the cards one of the benefits of being with someone since you were fifteen she knows you better than you know you without question without

question that's cool that's a perfect marriage right there yeah you know We're all working on it, man. You work on it till the day It's a lot of work. That's so true. Yeah. And when I tell, I, I, I interact with a lot of younger folks that are starting off in life, buying houses and just getting going and they'll come in and I'll be tattooing and they'll tell me about how they argue or the

things that aren't good. And I'm like, it sounds pretty normal, dude. I mean, that's just, This blissful idea of finding your soulmate and most of the time everyone's getting along and most of the time everyone's pretty happy Like that's I have a great marriage. I love my wife.

She loves me, I think and And we you That means no one gives a shit or you're bottling it up Yeah, I mean like that's even worse and then you find out something else happened Yeah, you know like so yeah, I've never we've always had you know, you're gonna Very true very good get a little marriage advice i agree i agree let me ask you you know all this i don't know what i call it the manifest manifest your dream visualize your dream you know and i'm not talking shit because i read

a lot of those books and i do think there's value in. Visualization you know i go to bed at night and i have a little prayer that i do or i'll just close my eyes and i just picture what i want my life to look like in five years to ten years and not just just business and money it's you know what are me and my wife doing how are my kids doing how's my health where am i living what's all of it look like so and i and i've done that my whole life i was

a young man my dad sent me to some seminar in like seventh grade it was for adults and they they were teaching this it's like 35 years ago and some of it stuck with me and I think and I look around at the life I have today and it's very similar to these these visualizations So I don't want to discount it But I do believe there's a I see sometimes in the younger generation that

they think that's it, right? that's how you get stuff you just you dream and you think and it happens and in talking to somebody who's been through the real shit and Speak to that a little bit. What does it take to really conquer difficult

I think when you have a vision for whatever the business is that you want to do, that's just there. So I have it and then it's there. But the unwillingness to give up is real. And I've put myself through hell just because I refuse to lose. And I don't even really celebrate the wins. I just don't want to lose i just hate losing and so how hard are you gonna push yourself and i think a lot of people like what does that even mean like you're just constantly

you know my wife are sitting here or anyone who's worked with me closely. Would say he's constantly thinking of what to do constantly and it might be like a crisis moment it might just be like a regular day. I'm always, it never stops. And if there's problems, I'm always thinking of how to fix them. And I'll never say, maybe we should just, you know, you know, it's not going to work out. You know, I just haven't, and like to a fault, to a fault.

There's been a lot of times with these businesses, people would have thrown the towel in man, for sure, for sure. And i just like it and that's just like that's what i mean about not being able to learn it you know like it's like being a filmmaker it's like being a storyteller. Are you a storyteller because you can learn how to use the camera and light it and edit it like that's like trade stuff you want to be a film director you

want to be a writer that's you don't learn that man. are do you want to visually tell a story through film from motion picture or photography or do you do you want to write it and like have people imagine it because I don't feel like you can really teach like the great ones they might go to college but Steven Spielberg isn't like the greatest filmmaker because he went to USC I don't even think he went to film school. I'm

not sure. So like a lot of these guys, like you can think of a million of them, right? There's a million amazing filmmakers, you know, like it was just in them. You know, I think people go to college because they think they're

supposed to and everyone's telling them they should. I don't think, I would say That's true so i think like but having this unwillingness to lose there's been a lot of studies on this and they indicate exactly what you said it's um the stick to it factor yeah you know it's not about your connections your charm your your maybe you got some family money that you know they did all these factors it still helps yeah but the ones who really get somewhere that's

remarkable yeah just you know never give up one way to put it These studies indicate more like, look, you don't have to crush every day, but you've got to get up every day and keep at You know what people ask me most is, like, how have you raised all this money? You know, how have you raised, you know, $60 million over the last 10 years for all these alcohol businesses? And I've never done it through one private

equity fund, not one family office, just people like me and you. $25 grand here, $100 grand here, $200 grand there, just like this right here, man. And so that takes a lot of work instead of just having someone try and write you like a big check. But for me, when I'm telling the story of my brands and like what I'm going to do with them, people just believe that I'm going to do it. Yeah. When I was raising money for St. Archer, think

about the position I put myself in. If I was sitting in front of you talking about this beer company, And I, like, have all the conviction in the world. I'm gonna do this. Then I'm gonna fucking do this. And then I'm gonna blah blah blah. And then when I say, I moved my family down here, I have to succeed. Like, there's no, like, I'm winning. So, like, there is no, like, this is not working out. It's not in the cards for me. You go, dude,

I believe this. I mean, I believe this, dude. And that's not like, you don't learn how to talk to somebody with passion and conviction at school. It's either it's you or it's not. And it's not a salesman shit. I'm not a salesman. I just believe in what I'm doing. I hate sales. I hate going to functions. I never network and do all that shit. I don't do anything like that. And like, I, you know, it just, when I get people talking and I'm talking about what I'm passionate about, they go, I believe

Yeah. It's infectious. I can feel a little bit just sitting here with And so like, if you, but. I wouldn't say like I didn't learn that from my parents. That's for sure. Both my parents, my mom went to Penn, made herself an attorney, you know, single mother, like just grinding. But

like went all the right way, went to college. Obviously Penn is an amazing college and then this and then this and And supported me all the way through which is huge but it's like i didn't learn it anywhere it's your authentic self it's true you when you talk to somebody in and they're being authentic and they're speaking. Truth that's different sales right sales is convincing somebody of something that you kinda maybe believe in a little bit that's why they called selling. Yeah.

This is a different story. This is you just being yourself. Yeah. And, uh, it's palpable. And yeah, I mean, if I was sitting in a room with a guy that had that vibe, had a good idea, I'd probably Yeah. And it's like, do you just believe, like, is this dude going to do whatever it takes? Cause everybody that I've sat in front of, they don't know anything about the alcohol business. Why should they? Not what they do for a living. They go, I believe

in Josh. And I think like, and I take that shit seriously. Like it's, I think that, that ties into the refusal to lose because they believe in me. They believed in me to do everything at all costs. And sometimes you just lose, man. Like if, if like, I would be okay if you guys all drank these and I came in here today and you guys went, you know what, man, Ashland fucking

sucks. And like, I can understand why nobody buys it anymore. And like, if everybody just stopped buying it, okay, we thought it was a good idea, it wasn't. And like, you lost. But like, losing because of our mistakes? Not in the Well, I mean, there's power in that, man. Believing in something so passionately that obstacles tend to There's always an answer, man. The only thing you can't answer is like, if our sales staff calls me and goes, nobody wants it, it just doesn't sell. You

can't force people to drink it. I can't force you guys to like it. Everything else you can fix. Everything. But you can't, that's why I always say like, If your brand sells, it's priceless because you can't buy people I mean how many businesses have had like tens of millions, hundreds of millions of dollars and nobody gives a shit and it just goes away all the time. All the time. So it's like really if you can create a business that people care about

And a good product. Yeah. Yeah. You have to give a shit. Yeah. You know, like you have to give a shit. I'm sure there's plenty of, uh, seltzer companies right now just throwing together some sauce and getting it on the shelf. And Really good. And on that note, you know, silly question, but I do drink seltzers. I've come to drink seltzers, trying to not put on the pounds, you know, trying to Yeah. Um, how did, what is, what is, I don't even know.

Yeah, what is it? Yeah, yeah. How do you make it? So ours is a little bit different. It's just, and I mean, when we were, when, when we had the idea for Ashlyn, it was like, you know, Trulia and White Claw was malt based. Okay. That's the difference. So it was malt based, but this is sugar based. So basically you're fermenting sugar to create the alcohol. Okay. And it's like a cleaner, right? And then we're not adding a sweetener. We're not really at, it's like an

essence. Like it's basically, that's what it's called. It's like a flavor. It's an essence of a flavor. That's why I like when you drink them, it's like a hint of it. Right. Like whatever your favorite, you know, just non-alcoholic seltzer is. It's like a hint of flavor, right? Um, So is White Claw a seltzer? It is, yeah. So a seltzer can be malt-based or sugar-based? Yeah. Okay.

Yep. Are those the only two ways? Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. I guess when you go beyond that, then you get into like the, you know, vodka seltzers and even then, like, it's not just Yeah, it's like a grain-neutral spirit, essentially. And then a lot of folks, like Cutwater has really great stuff. It's a little too sweet for me in most cases, but like the quality has always been great. And like Yousef, who was the founder, is like, he's a

freaking mastermind at making amazing stuff like that. But like most canned cocktails, they're doing green neutral and So you're not getting a seltzer with a shot of tequila. God, no. That's kind of what I thought. No, too expensive. Yeah. You But when you're talking about Cut Water and they're making the Mai Tai or the Gin and Tonic, is that gin in Yeah. That is more of a cocktail in a can. Yeah. And they're using some of that too, but like their product's just better. And now they're

owned by Anheuser-Busch. You know, the product is just really good. You know, they've always been the highest quality stuff, In that realm, I do like to cut water. But with you, like you, a little too sweet for me. I like something a little more dry. So can people make, like, you know, people get in-home beer I haven't seen an at-home one. Maybe because people, like, think it's lame. You know, like, seltzer's not as

cool as beer. Seltzer's not cool. like there's no there and i think it's because like with beers you can have like a bunch of different flavors you can have your ipa and a pilsner and blah blah blah whatever you want with these if i said hey man i only have the orange cream school you're like well my favorite flavors strawberry short you're like well just give it to me i'll drink it right and seltzer doesn't really matter whereas like if you want an ipa you probably don't want

True. Yeah, I never thought of it that way. In the beer realm, you're really dancing around these distinctly different crafty, That's why you see Cutwater with like 35 different canned cocktails when you go to Vons, right? Because like if you're going in and you're a Cutwater fan and you love their gin and tonic, you don't want, if they're only offering you a margarita pack, you go, well, I

don't want a pineapple margarita. I want a gin and tonic. So then they had to make a canned cocktail for like every single favorite person's drink from a Long Island to a, I mean, they have a trillion SKUs, but that's because with canned cocktails, Learn a little bit about the alcohol game. Very interesting. I want you to kind of give some, I don't know, maybe some words of wisdom or advice for young people that want to get

out in this big bad world and make it. I mean, I ask this question because I myself am a bit confused. I've got a 19 year old daughter, a 13 year old daughter, a 36 year old son. He's well on his way doing his own thing. But I feel so helpless sometimes advising them because the landscape, I just don't know what the world's going to look like in 10 years. That's pretty crazy right now.

I mean, what are your thoughts around that? It's just weird to be a dad. Like, go back 70 years ago, a dad could confidently tell his son or daughter, pretty sure if you go this way, this is Yeah, no, I mean, I have a 17, 14 and 10 year old, so I'm I mean, I'm, yeah, I think about it all the time. And, you know, what I tell them, it might not be, you know, people would probably expect me to say, like, just do this and work your ass off and blah, blah, blah.

And that's all true because I actually do think in today's world, the work ethic has gone so far down with young folks. There

is no work ethic. And if it is, it's shocking, you know? And I tell my kids, like, if you just go in now and bust your ass, you'll stand out. Because nobody is. Like, nobody is. Not nobody, but you know what I mean. It's the entitlement in younger folks is... Why do you think that is? Because I think a lot of parents have... you know, coddled kids. It's a different And I think economically, from the 70s till now, things have gone well for

Well, I mean, our parents never knew where we were. I mean, my parents didn't do shit for me. Like, when I got home, my parents weren't home. I had to do everything. Get myself to school, get myself to practice, get myself to do everything. You know, and I was an only child. So like, and I think you, you either as an only child, you're spoiled or you're independent. You know, like, and I was super independent. But now, like, we do everything for our kids. We're

totally guilty of that. The stuff that we do for our kids, like, would never happen for my wife and I. Same in my household. And so, like, we also don't come from any money, you know? And then, like, when you, you know, if you're fortunate enough to have, like, kind of this more fortunate lifestyle, it changes the kids too, and then that's a struggle. Because I'm, like, going, Hey, like this isn't normal. None of this shit's normal. This isn't

like real life. This isn't what people are like, most people are going through in this country. Like this isn't real. This is fantasy land, especially up in Encinitas. You know, it's like, it's a different type of place. So we struggle with that. But I think on the flip side of all of it, I'm, I'm always telling them, you don't have to figure it out right now. You have to work in the meantime. And you're going to learn work ethic and what it takes to do what you need to do

to kind of survive. I'm not going to just help you forever. Not going to happen. But you don't have to figure it all out at 18 either. And college, you're probably not going to figure it out there. And if you don't figure it out after that, it's OK. But you can't just sit around the couch Yeah, like, come on, dude. No, there's none of that. Like, you're going to have to go work. You might not want to have a remedial job, but dude, there's nothing wrong with working at In-N-Out, man. Or, like,

bussing tables or, like, doing all the jobs that we did, you know? Like, nothing wrong with that. And like, you gotta do it. But I think like, You nailed it. And I am similar to you. Actually, we're almost identical. Same thing. I don't like the figured out part. I never have. No. You know, the homes you go to where they're always asking, what are you going to be? What are you going to be? It's so annoying. Oh, it's like, what are you doing? The kid's seven years

old. And then, you know, you get him to repeat it enough, he'll attach to Well, and a lot of parents are like, they want their kids to go to college so they can say, my kid goes to X college. Especially around here, you know what I mean? It's a different... It's like jewelry or something. Yeah, I could care less about that. Like, and if they said to me, dad, I don't want to go to college. Okay? What's your plan? Because when I didn't go to college, I was going to do this. You

had a reason. So like, if you don't want to go to figure it out, which I, I got it. Well, you better figure it out right now. You better figure out what job you're gonna get and then you can figure out whatever career you want when you're And i think another part you said is so true to is and i got i just i'm gonna be gentle i don't wanna sound like i'm dissing all the kids out there but. There is a tough not to do man there

is an overwhelming amount of entitlement you see it i go to these functions i have kids the kids are around me. Simple things like picking up the backyard after the swim in the pool and i watch how they behave and it's like. So you're right, if you could just tell your kid, look, just work a You're 10 steps ahead. You're 10 steps ahead. And I think every parent, like every parent that's like, you know, got kids that are age 10 and over goes,

yeah, the entitlement's way gnarlier than when we were kids. I don't, I don't know any parent that would disagree with, I mean, you'd have to be like an idiot. Right. I mean, everyone sees it. And we hire a lot of young folks in our business and it's like, it's Oh my God. It's just like, and you wonder, like, it's so expensive for people to live now. How are you not working? Yeah. Where do you get it? How are you feeding yourself? How are you alive? I always... I

I have no idea. Are they all living at home? I don't know. I don't know. I trip out I mean, everyone goes to the store. Eggs are $10. Maybe not at Trader Joe's, but you're like, you want like whatever healthy eggs. How do i have a job i don't get it i just don't might just be a lot of a lot of people are just financially supporting their kids as they kind of. Dolly around to life i think that would be your answer if you look down that rabbit hole in our area yeah i'm not

But you're going to work to support yourself while you figure it out. Yeah. That's like my, and if you want to go to college, I got it. What do you want to go for? And then also college is so expensive. They have to do something about it. Like these kids being, you know, $200,000 in debt, $300,000 in debt. It's like, you can

buy real estate for that. And like, you could go to community college and save your folks or yourself a hundred and fifty thousand dollars hundred thousand dollars whatever it's your first and it's the same education for the most part i agree with everything you i have a daughter who is at berkeley but and i was just like you she could've told me, i would've been totally supportive but it was it was really was this kids nature. I never told this girl to do her homework, it was straight A's

from birth. Telling me the whole time, one day I'm gonna get into business, I'm gonna go to the best college, I'm gonna go to business. I Honestly, that's the perfect person to go to college. It's the one that goes, yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't know. Well, that's cool, you don't have to know, but like, I don't know if I wanna spend 150 grand for I 100% agree. You know you know since you are in business you have you know these business employees i have to ask your feelings around ai and.

I know you've seen the studies right what this is going to do you know we just talked about getting out there working hard meanwhile we're being told the next decade eighty percent of all jobs are gonna be replaced possibly by ai. So like on an echo, this is something I wrestle with in my own head, like I'm trying to understand this ever-changing future, and I can't wrap my head around where that leaves us. If, let's fuck it, let's not say 80, let's say 50. Let's be conservative. 50% is

a conservative number. So half the jobs are gone in 10 years. What do we do? What do these people, what's coming? What do you think's coming? You give this any thought at all? Are you just like, fuck, I'm doing me. You know, it's hard to not pay attention to it now because it's so, it's hard not to pay attention to everything now with like, you know, what's going on in the country and whatever side you're on, whatever, whatever. I think like there's no way it's

so polarizing. Everything is so gnarly all the time. Yeah. I think it's a real thing. I think it's scary, you know, and it's not something for me. I hate social media, you know, it's, which is funny to say, cause I've built brands on it. Like I've had successful companies. I told you the other day, St. Archer, a lot of the reason why it was successful is because we utilized Instagram in the beginning. And before there was any guardrails, you could

kind of do what you were going to do. And like, they didn't, they, you know, like you could actually build a business on it. And we did 100%. And, you know, but is social media doing any good? I mean, really? I mean, I don't know how you could say yes. You know, it causes so many problems. And I think the scariest thing for me is people are getting more and more removed from each other. And then, like, if, like,

AI takes over, it's like the death blow, you know? But it's like, we're already so removed from just this. Like, what's up? Give you a hug. Let's have a beer. How are you? How's your family? Blah blah blah. Like, our kids don't even communicate like this. This. It's fucking bullshit. I don't like social media either. I'm in a world

And I mean, me personally. Like, I've gotta actually, I don't have to, but it's good for me to go on my Instagram, respond to You know i don't like it i don't like what is doing to my kids the country a personal interpersonal relationships i mean i have people if you ask me do you know so and so and i i've caught myself doing this i'm like oh yeah i know him and then i think about it i'm like i actually don't

know him we've dm a dozen times yeah. But But if you watch where it's going, like the kids all communicate through social media. Yeah. Now they don't even text each other. Little videos, Snapchat. Snapchat. Yeah. This, and like, it's just like, so it's already, they've already started like the, you're already removed from like person to person like warmth. And then, like I said, I think it just like give it 10 more years and it's just the

knockout punch. But I don't know how you could think any differently.

I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of positive spins from the corporations. Not I'm with you as an optimist i try to think of something the positive you know what's what this one like hey a i obviously is is gonna be way quicker and smarter than humans of course already probably is ten years for sure humans have problems we have problems providing fresh water creating fresh water for people that don't have it during cancer running complex governments

like yeah i like this idea that maybe i'm just being a little hopeful here but maybe maybe future with this is fixing all these things that i could be beneficial but I don't know the only thing that makes me nervous is just room removing like a human warmth. I don't know, or connection. I think we're all supposed to be connected, and I think having a wedge further and further in between all that just doesn't seem like the way it's supposed to be. I don't know,

It does, but sometimes I think it's over-connected. We grew up as tribal people, right? Our minds, I believe there's even studies on this, are built to maintain a sincere, authentic relationship with around 80 to 100 people. But when you bring in social media and just the existence of a phone, the ability to text and stay in touch with people, suddenly we all find ourselves with, you know, a few hundred or even a thousand people that I have actual

interactions with. And so it just waters down the Yeah, man, I trip out. I'm like, I can't Yeah, it's a big deal. It's like, and it's kind of, it's not flying under the radar obviously, but like it's not like impacting us like day to day yet. But it will. I I was in San Francisco about a month ago and saw those self-driving People, like, taking naps in the passenger seat, or I would drive by and look at them, I'm like, they're totally sleeping. And driving.

And I just, like, went, wow, we are, like, Back to the Future is my favorite movie of all time. So then I'm, like, thinking about Back to the Future 2 going, all we need is those Nikes that we push the button and the laces go, and, like, we get the auto dry suit

We're living in a bit of a sci-fi world. It's crazy. It is you know and it does make me a little bit. Anxious i want to say depressed but it does affect me i have negative thoughts sometimes then i always try to say to myself well if you chose to be born into a specific time frame in earth history and you wanted an exciting one. that was gonna be a wild ride. You picked the fucking time zone, We nailed it. Yeah, because we were, me and you, I mean, I'm 53, you're 43, but

we, me especially, it was a dial-up phone. Yep. All the way to everything. Now I'm 53 and I'm watching AI I know. I'm like, that's a hell of a ride. I even just think the iPhone, like, what a crazy deal, like, you saw, like, cell phones back then. I still, I mean there's things that you just wish were still there and it's like easy to like sound old and go back when I was. But like, I used to have to call my wife and like talk to her folks on the phone. Hi, is Janine Vova,

you know. Those days are like, they never have to talk to us, right? Like I make them, I make it happen. But you had to carry a conversation with an adult, you know what I mean? Like you had to do it. And then you were like on the phone all night. Yeah. Right? Whereas like now they No. It'll be interesting to see what effects this has on the youth of today. Yeah. I'm curious for sure. I'm sure a lot of it's not going to be positive. But I don't know. Hopefully

it is. Hopefully there's always some positive. And maybe this is just sometimes I think like our species is like pre-teen. It's an ugly time period for humans because maybe we make it through this, maybe we end up in a hundred years in some unforeseeable future that's maybe more benevolent, more futuristic, and somehow there's more peace and serenity. But to get from here to there,

we got to go through this phase, which is pretty... Well, presidential election and like our choices you're like what is that you know that's a whole nother but it's just like you know if you grew up with people that were like presidents that were like great americans which i did yeah like you go what and forget like who you what whatever party you know like just like is this the human we want representing america does this represent the american people come

on Let's just take it down to that. Forget all the other stuff. It's just pretty crazy. I never thought any of this stuff would happen and how divided everybody is and just the hate on both sides. You can't even believe the news on both sides because there's agendas and you're like, dude, I don't even know. It's hard to even for it all, man. It's And think how much more confusing it'll be in a couple more years. I know. With deep fakes, and AI can make videos that look

just like you saying anything they want you to say. Yeah, I know. I want to stay optimistic, but it's difficult Yeah, you're like, holy shit. Yeah, it's nuts. I'm with Yeah, and on that note, like, yeah, please, everyone listening, I know you have strong views about what this country needs, which party should lead it. I can't encourage you all enough, and I have mine, but I would never hate And if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything. Yeah.

Like, just don't... Well, I think you're back to social media, like... Yeah, everyone thinks... In the old days, to say something unnice meant standing, and usually standing right there and looking someone in the eyes and saying it. And you never did Maybe, or at least it just takes a lot of balls to do it in person. When you can tweet it or when you can text it, It's crazy. I mean like the craft beer world in San Diego, like when we sold St. Archer, we were like the devil. Really?

Oh man, it was ridiculous. And what's the narrative behind that? You sold out, and this isn't crap beer, and fuck you, and fuck this whole thing, and we knew you were blah blah blah, I'm never drinking it again, I hate you, I hope your kids die, oh And like any other industry, companies sell all the time, and it's

celebrated. Interesting. But for some reason in beer, it was, you When like, so you thought it was, you think it's bad that like we created a successful company and I changed my friends lives and like people that invested in me and believed in me and like what I sacrificed for my family and like you think my family should die because of that? Damn. Yeah, like I'm glad Instagram exists for you. Yeah. And like you can sit there and say stupid shit like that and like there's no repercussion. I

used to go on Instagram and tell people, come down. I'm at the brewery. I'm here right now. Come on down. As you can imagine, Yeah. That's something I have to keep in mind. You know, since I started the show, I've been, you know, having intimate conversations and ultimately I have, you know, opinions come out. And for the first time in my career, I've got people, you know, you're, this is full of shit. You're

pushing this agenda. All is like, I've never, all I've had my whole career Yeah suddenly i'm entering this world where i'm crazy rise world and i to some people represent a certain ideal and they're against that ideal and i am. You know working on how to how to deal and you know i learned a lot of joe rogan's a friend of mine and he's always told me aaron hosting ghost buddy hosting host. And if you happen to accidentally catch one of those comments, just remember, who

What human being wrote that? I haven't done social media. I've been pretty much off it for years. And our company, Instagram, I haven't done in years and years and years. It just gets out of hand. And it's like, you just don't want to live your life I know a lot of successful people and I don't know any of them that's ever written anything nasty on Instagram. No. So that's what I always think. It's like, who is writing this? These are not the winners in

life most of the time. There might be the occasional exception where someone's bright and actually a winner and they just maybe had to say something. But I'd say by and large, 99% of those nasty comments are just losers that aren't doing anything I saw this in a comedy bit once, but it's like Yelp. You know, I've never gone on and my wife, we love going out to dinner. at a fucking restaurant. If it sucks, I look at my wife and go, this place sucks, get the fuck out of here. Or we're

not coming back. Or the service is lame and like this place sucks. But it's to each other. I don't go, I would never even think to go on a website and blast this. Cause even if you don't like it, dude, that's somebody's life. That's like their livelihood. And just because you don't like the food, you're like trying to tear down Come on, man. Just don't go back. Just don't tell your best friends to go there. But let them do... You don't have to trash them. Come on,

man. And there's people that love it. Obviously, it exists. But people just can't... If you don't have anything nice to say, just don't

So true you know and i'm with you i've never made a negative comment yup my life i never made any comments my wife comments all the time positively yeah she's a business owner and she likes to and she knows the business and i think sometimes people forget in the small business community like a lot

of the time you're dealing with. Some people that have everything on the line their kids financial future and you know it's all all happening for them and you wanna make a shitty comment on yelp and it slowly degrades their business that's what you're doing and maybe they just had a bad day. No business gets it right every day so don't go yeah don't eat there but don't try to tear them down what is wrong with you. Just don't like it that's fine.

I think the best part of what you said in today's environment is we

If you're spending time like blasting people that are faceless to you, you need to look in the mirror man. It's just, it's crazy. It's so toxic. And that's what it's turned into. It's like a very toxic environment for the most part, you know, there's still people like your wife, God bless her for being positive Yeah. Yeah. And I have to like Well that's cool man it's been a joy talking to you, hearing about some insights into your own life and how you got to where you're at.

That addictive OCD which is probably a gift from god that drove you to create these brands which has brought so many people prosperity and joy. me on a micro level just sit in my backyard having one of your seltzer so all this love and goodness that came out of it. For everybody because of your i guess i appreciate that yeah i just called a winner's attitude i'll take that man i'll take it. Awesome

boy. Thank you for coming out. Is there anything? I mean, there's probably always gonna be something next for a guy like you but anything next I know people are going to love the episode. For all you guys listening, the likes, the follows, the subscriptions, I really appreciate it, especially the messaging. I'm a small little outfit, and it takes a lot to put this thing on. So getting a little love once in a while from you guys really keeps

the fire burning. So thank you for those of you that are doing that, and keep it