Community, Connection, and Controversy in Tattooing ft. Tony Mancia

I think it's okay to have contests at a convention for healed work, right? Because it's a totally different element, you know? But if they just got rid of Tattoo of the Day and Best of Show, the entire convention would be different. People would be able- Tattoo of the Day makes people go insane. They do insane shit. They don't talk to anybody. It really does take a client and an artist completely out of the community, chasing Shits about to go down. I'm

feeling something in my spirit. Chats Hey everybody, welcome back to Chats and Tats with me, your host, Aaron De La Vidova. I'm lucky enough to be up here at the Golden State Tattoo Expo here in Pasadena, California, and I've been wandering around meeting a lot of bad-ass tattooers, a few I never heard of, a few I had. The gentleman I have on today is one I have known about for a long time. I've looked up to his work for a very long time. Uh, you really should check it

out. It's phenomenal. Um, and I know based on his portfolio, this is a very hardworking individual. I know what it takes to create a portfolio like this. So right out of the gate, I got nothing but respect for this man. Well, how would I explain him? He's a black and gray. kind of surrealism, so there's a lot of realistic aspects to his tattooing, but then he's taking some Salvador Dali soul juice and just stirring it up into some crazy cocktail. It's

the best way I could say it. He's also a painter. He's gonna be shy about this, but he's doing some sculpting and they are insane in fact We just had to talk about it. I think I'm gonna give a stab at this It sounded so rad to try that but he is he owned his own tattoo shop in Atlanta for 15 years Stygian And then just in the last couple years, he's backed out of that and went kind of private. And now he is in Dallas, Pennsylvania with his wife, the two of them in this beautiful studio, just

working their craft and growing their art together. So beautiful. I'm a little jealous. So with all that being said, please I'm stoked to be here, man. Everybody, it's early in the morning for us tattooers. We are here. Response time might be a little second off. Our coffees haven't fully absorbed into our bloodstreams, but we're

going to do our best. You know, much to talk about, and we're going to just move fast because I've got a few. You've got to go. I've got to go. But we had this moment, and we're going to do it. But just tell me. I love to hear how people find tattoo. I mean, you could have been a lot of different creative things, but you're a tattoo artist. How'd Man, so I did the typical, started getting tattooed

at about 15. You know, go to the biker shop, pay cash, they don't ID. And I had this magical idea that, you know, when you're 18 and you can legally go get a tattoo, that it's going to be incredible. So I drew up some sketches for a back piece, you know, and walked into a shop and showed it to the guy I wanted to get tattooed. He's like, cool man, I need an apprentice. And I'm like, I'm in college. It's not going to work. He's like, you know, I'm not going to

That was the price. Yeah, and I was like, all right, this sounds great. So I bounced school apprentice, school apprentice for a while. Wholeheartedly, I had a more traditional apprenticeship, but he taught me. He legitimate put effort into teaching me, and it was awesome. It was great. And then I started tattooing probably when I was full time, when I was 19. Didn't stop from there. So it kind of just fell upon me. I really never planned on it. I was like, I'm in school for fine art

and painting. I'll draw pictures for people and have a great living. And you quickly realize that, one, that would be difficult, but two, that you fell in love with tattooing pretty immediate. There's a different element Let's talk about that. in your words,

I would honestly say so. It's, it's interesting. You have, you have a start to finish, right? You have a time limit, you know, you have human interaction. It's almost like when you're tattooing, you have, you know, someone's lighting off fireworks here and you have to be able to multitask, you know, especially back in the day, you know, you're fully having a conversation with a client while you're trying to pull a line with a green soap stencil, you know, like, wow, this is a lot, you

know? So it was such a challenge to kind of, do everything and still have to accomplish this task in a time frame on something that's breathing, moving. it kind of forces you to treat it in a totally different realm of art, which was interesting. You know, like if you're painting, you're like, I'm going to put some music on. I'm just going to have quiet and I have all this time. And none of that applied to tattooing. So I think that was like the biggest draw and you, you fall in

love with it because you become obsessed with it. You know, you're like, well, how do I do this better? How do I, you know, can't mess it up, but I did, you know? So, yeah. I

It's just... Well, and all that's true on a, I guess I would call that on a technical level, right? Let's go deeper than that. What makes tattoo special? I mean, maybe you disagree, I don't think you do, but I personally don't think for someone that gets a tattoo that they really, really, really love, I would challenge them to ask them, like, has a painting ever moved you as much as that tattoo? Has a, anything ever, any piece of art, And maybe they went to the Sistine Chapel and it

happened there. But I'm not trying to say or build a case where tattoo is the greatest art in the world, nothing can move people as powerfully as tattoo. Not true. I mean, you might be into music, you might hear Mozart's Fifth, and it moves you more than your back piece. But in a general way, you will find consistently, it does move people more than a painting, more than a sculpture, all this

stuff. Let's get into that. Why is that? Besides the obvious, it's, you know, for sure, but I'll let you put it What is all that? I mean, if you take away the whole, oh, it's on you forever, right? Of course it is. You know, you, I think as, as the person getting it, you are making a conscious choice to kind of change your life, right? You know, whether it's just a visual change, whether it's a, you know, kind of holding on to that day even, right? Or the memory of why you're getting

it. So I think there's nothing more personal and exciting and, you know, meaningful for the person, even if they get something that has no meaning, that they just like the imagery. They made the choice to do it. So I think there's an attachment to it that you don't get with something you could just buy, something that's hanging on your wall, something that you go, okay. You said a good one there. I haven't thought of it this way, but when you buy a painting, you're not committing to

changing your personal persona. You're not committing to changing your identity. Yeah. I mean, it kind of does. Maybe you decorate your whole house with Picasso, but guess what? In a couple years, you're like, yeah, this stuff's lame. And then it's all Dalai. But when you do a tattoo, you're saying, I'm going to be different. I'm going to express myself in this way, and I'm going to have to stick with it to the better end.

So yeah, of course, it's going to be a little more impactful to the person that that buys it or gets it, you know? So that's true, that's true.

Makes it more special, makes it different. 10,000% and I think, you know, maybe even like fast-forwarding too much, but I think especially now that there is a large and small community around tattooing, you also are kind of like putting yourself into a new Group, you know, you can go places and see people with tattoos and be like, hey, I have a tattoo too Wow, that's part of

the club. We yeah, we both made this, you know, cool commitment Like how awesome is this, you know, and there's like a sense of belonging and accomplishment, you know, you have to sit there Yeah, you know, it's just like Yeah. Yeah, he's automatically accepted and loved by strangers Yeah that have custom Harley. Yeah He just pulls up, and he sees three guys with custom Harleys. Guaranteed, they're all going to get along and be friends. Yeah, you do become a part of a community. Like

Yeah, right. But yeah, I mean, I think it's just, it's it's just such a kind of experience that you created for yourself, you know, as, as the one getting the tattoo. And, and, you know, especially if you have a great experience, then, I mean, you're going to hold onto that Well, experience is, is, and you hear it talked about now a lot. I'm a 30 year ago tattooer. And it was like, my first boss told me you see those people in the waiting room. Yeah. Those are your enemy.

Literally, that was his words. And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, fuck them. They are here to pay us our fucking money. Be nice. But if any of them give you shit, give me a signal. We'll kick their asses. And he came from the streets of San Francisco. He learned from Henry Goldfield. At the time, I was like, you're fucking stupid. That is not how it works. But the thing, what was happening is I was seeing the future of

what we do now, which is we're giving the customer an experience. We have these beautiful spaces. They get tattooed. And we ask them if they're thirsty or hungry. We give them pillows to put under their neck. It's completely opposite. But he was coming from, no man, like we almost got stabbed one night in a shop I used to work at. So he was just, so I've learned in time to understand him and even forgive him. Like he was trying

to help me. He thought I was going into that tattoo world. He didn't understand the tattoo world, that landscape was shifting before his eyes, right? But yeah, that is a big part of it. But the other part of tattoo that I always, it's like a, it's a, you know, so many people, You know, I think everybody's an artist. I've said it my whole life. You look at little babies, little children, let them do whatever they want. They create. They get mud and

make something. They just make stuff. And so everyone's sort of an artist and not everybody is a visual artist. Some it goes towards music or whatever. But I find with tattoo clients, they're kind of like really artistic people who never had time to develop illustration skills or sculpting skills. So they have this yearning desire to express. And then we get to like co-collaborate with them. So they get to be a part of this art project, which is pretty

rare. I mean, most people don't get to be a part of the painter. They don't sit in that room. I'm going to buy a painting from you. I'm going to sit with you every day while you paint it. And when you want to use a certain color, we're going to discuss it. I don't know about the light purple. How about, you know, it doesn't, you do the painting, you give it to them. So it's this co-collaborative thing. And I think that's

why they want it. It is on their body till they die. And, but also they were a part of it, you know, I mean, there are exceptions where it's just like, I drew this sit down, shut up, there you go. But I think you and I are both in the world where no, we're, we're working with these people. We're allowing their opinions to enter into the project. Yeah. That I think would qualify as definitely a special part of tattooing, you know?

I mean, it's actually, awesome you brought that up because it's hard to articulate that part, but that's 100% true. And I think that also adds a huge kind of, how do you word it? I don't want to say connection, that's the wrong word, but I always tell all my clients, we're both equally in this. We both have to symbiotically work together to accomplish a goal. I want your input, I'm going to give you my input. We're going to

hit this middle ground where everything's just smooth sailing from there. And I think that makes people excited. I think when both parties are on the same page and going towards the same goal, it works. It does. And that's why, just like dating, you better vibe. It's not a sexual thing, but it's almost Like, you have to almost be somebody I'd be friends with. And it's fine if we don't and we wouldn't be friends, but usually a good tattoo's not going to come out of that. We've got to have similar

interests, similar likes and dislikes. So it's a relationship, especially when we do these large 200-hour projects. Like, oh, OK, we're going to spend the next three years together. Let's get to know each other first because otherwise it could not go well. Interesting. Another layer to why tattoo is different and special, right? You don't have to do that in these other art forms. You don't have to maintain a two-year loving friendship with the person you're making the art with. It

could be more of a business transaction. Here's your painting. Give me my money. Thank you. So way different, way different. I'm kind of getting back to you fell into tattooing and you never walked away. I would expect the reason that happened, and it does happen to most tattooers, is you fell in love with what we're talking about. You could have fell in love as hard for painting. You could have. But the painting wasn't doing the things we just said. But

the tattoo does do these things. And not everyone falls in love with it. I know some artists that got in, they did not like that part. They were like, this is too personal. I'm not, I'm introverted. I don't want to have relationships with a thousand people that all have my cell phone number and they migrate it off, you know, and they're painters and they're amazing. And they have their private painting studios and it's great. So, but you're like me, we liked that

relationship part of it. I think. Yeah, it's cool. Absolutely. very cool well on that note well not on that note but just uh something what do you think about you're a 20-year tattooer so you know i like to say it's like you got the full ride right 20 years ago i'm

30 it was even dirtier then but you still got some dirty i know you've been in and out of some fucking thug-ass shops and you know whatever which is fantastic and beautiful it makes our industry super colorful yep it's sort of going away further in the distance so you had that and then you were part of what i like to call the tattoo renaissance which is when all these talented young artists, people that would never have become tattooers 40 years

ago, became tattooers. They could have went off to Disney or Pixar. These guys have you, all these guys' talent. So then this renaissance, boom! And now we're at where we're at today, where it's just like every morning I wake up, I see another level of somebody doing something. I'm like, Holy shit, can it get any better? And it keeps going. But let's talk about that. How do you view that, especially the future? I mean, I just kind of covered the past, the present. I think

you're nodding your head. So we just agree that's what happened. The tattoo renaissance occurred and is still occurring. Let's talk about the future though, because the landscape of our planet is shifting so rapidly with AI and digital media and all these, this stuff, you know, and it's not just going to affect tattoo, it's going to affect government, religion, everything. So, but let's, let's, you know, what are your thoughts around that?

Or specifics when we get into like AI and elements like that, or Let's just do a little bit of all of it. What's the next 10 years of tattooing? It's going to be hard to get that right. I don't exactly know, but take a

What's it going to look like? As a general, I agree with everything you said. Let's say up until even today. I don't want to say we're peaking. But I want to say you're going to see this revival of a little bit of an older mentality I think we we're getting a little lost with technology incorporated with tattooing and it's only going to hurt people, right? I mean, they think it's going to be beneficial But you know, no one's really earning it,

right? Like no one's pushing things anymore It's like you go to a convention you'll see the same thing, right? You'll see a half black and gray Zeus face, right? And they're going to put a big line through it then they're going to do a color portion of a skull and they're going to put a line through it and then they're going

You're seeing themes being repeated. What you're talking about there is technology, digital media, AI is homogenizing the output of the Between that and what we see on social media, it's kind of taking all these people who are phenomenal and have room to really just blow our minds, right? But time, right? It's kind of like what you said. When you work hard, you can build a portfolio. But it's time. And people now have a tool that can make them lazier as

far as a creative process. And also, you have pressure from, let's say, the main source I think people think is driving their business is social media. So they're seeing what's getting more likes. They're seeing what's being popular. They're kind of pigeonholing themselves into this, right? When they could do this. And they're forgetting about, like, This is only hitting a niche market, right?

Like there are millions of people out there who want to see you push a limit and, you know, maybe trial and error, but I think we're going to keep progressing, but I think we're going to kind of be at a cap point until people stop using it, you know? And then even with AI, like You know, that's a many hours of a conversation, but in my opinion, is it okay to utilize technology? Sure. Is it kind of sad because you're not even having to mentally think about your process anymore?

You know, if you're just punching in keywords, Poseidon, water, ship, octopus thing, right? and you weren't able, let's say you could execute a tattoo perfectly, but you can't create it, you don't have the mental capability. Train yourself, you know, figure it out. Now you punch it in and that's what everyone's doing, right? So you're just going to be having something dictate

what you're creating. And then at what point is it just not, all you're doing, you're a craftsman, which you are, but like you're just executing something you didn't even create. So did you steal it from a computer? Did you put no effort into it? You're not going to learn, you know? Um, so I think we're kind of, Currently capped.

I think you're gonna have a lot of people pushing that, you know still want to Progress to a point where it's gonna blow everyone's mind But I think as a whole we need to kind of degress from it and start putting the effort back in And then you'll see like almost like another revival, you know It'll it'll kind of like come full circle and you'll be like, oh crap.

I agree. I mean, you know, so many, you look at all the really hot pieces on Instagram right now, and a lot of them You can just see it. I'm like, that came out of Mid Journey. That's a Mid Journey AI production. They're all unique, right? So it is cool that the AI can produce a unique, new, novel concept or art piece, and then you tattoo it. That's cool. At least it's not an exact copy. But you can tell these

And it's sort of... You know, I've often said, like, AI seems to be this shiny new toy that it's very impressive. Like, it's writing Jimi Hendrix songs that don't exist. And I'm checking it out. These are fucking cool, you know? I've been on Mid-Journey. I can't believe it does it. So it's a shiny new toy that

everyone's very enthralled by it. But it is homogenizing, and it is you know so you see these they look like computer-ish generated art on skin and and and that's that's cool but i do think there's gonna be and i'm seeing it like that's this is probably the revival of like this minimalist tribal work people are getting now yeah you know it's like all this super complex, and this is, you know, sound, your stuff is complex, too. Yeah. And layered in that way. But and that's beautiful. But you're

seeing people going the opposite direction. Now. Yeah, I just want six circles of black, right, my down my spine, a black line that fans out on my butt cheeks. That's my back piece. Yeah. And, uh, It looks cool. I have a gal at one of my shops that does that. And I'm like, that's fucking cool. Very elegant, very sexy, very minimalist. No skull, no fire, no nothing. I mean, there's a part of me, too. It's like, I'm going to do that for the next 10 years. Yeah, that sounds great, right? That

sounds really nice. But someone might say, anyone can do that. Well, I don't know. She's putting that line, there's just certain very key choices that she's making and it makes us a little more appropriate. So there's art there too, but I do think there'll be a revival towards tribal back to the roots style. Not everybody, but people are already going that way. And just in general, I think there'll be a day in the near future where people are going to start valuing more and more

and more analog things. Yeah. You know, it's like I could put an LCD wall in my house that projects AI art that feels like I just hit a DMT pipe. Yeah. Um, but, but the thing is, eventually everyone's going to have a wall like

that in their house, projecting imagery that's similar to that. And you know, one of the coolest things about art is to be able to say, yeah, I have something unique that you don't have, you know, this is like a, You know, so then maybe people are gonna go back to, I want, you know, analog art, I want a real fucking painting with fucking pubic hair So maybe, maybe, these are all guesses, but we'll see. It's definitely a, it's just shifting so fast, it's so interesting. Mostly

Yeah, yeah, well I mean, well that's what's interesting too, is it is shifting so fast, right? So I don't, I think by the time, and you always have different mentalities, but I think by the time People who are stubborn try to catch up to it too. It's already over. So you have this second

wave of... Copycats. Yeah. But ultimately... how sci-fi do we want to get you know I mean if it's like Mars attacks like sweet you know but if it's like war of the worlds pretty big yeah it could be it could be a scary future like it could save us or can kill us it'll probably do Yeah, well, that's cool. Well, let me, you know, social media, I mean, I don't want to get into it. It's pretty much what we just said. We use the word mid-journey and AI, but social media is the homogenization of

our art form as well. At the same time, it simultaneously is pushing the art forward because as soon as people could check out the coolest tattoo that was done yesterday in Germany, I'm going to lean on that a little. And so the growth happened really quickly. But now it's just a sea of, it's hard to have a voice anymore. It's a lot of voices there. And I cover that already on a lot of my shows. It's kind of exhausting, and I think everyone's heard it

already. But moving on, maybe we'll get into some other stuff.

I think it's ridiculous, I think. I'll try to break it down eloquently. You know, if you take, you know, someone famous, right? Everyone wants to tattoo famous people because in their minds it's the best form of promotion, right? But what makes it any different than tattooing a normal, you know, not famous person? Nothing, right? Everyone's making the same commitment. You know, you should be treating people the same. So

these people, it's all a money grab, right? They're coming in, they're not paying for the, you know, they're not paying the 100 grand to get put under and have five, six artists do a mediocre tattoo that's rushed on them while they're put under. And then they're hoping it's impressive enough to other people that they're going to be like, oh man, that sounds great. You know, it's incredible. But it just devalues every aspect of our entire craft, right? There's no communication. There

is no working with the person. There's no taking a break and, you know, shooting the shit for five minutes. It becomes, now you're just producing. Now you're McDonald's, right? The person comes in, I'll take a number one, you know. Do this, this, this. That's interesting Let me challenge you a little bit on this one. Let me paint a scenario and have you react to it. So I have a guy who already has got a back piece. I'm just painting a story. He's

got two sleeves from two other famous tattooers. He's moved on in his career. He's not a famous guy. got money though. He's got kids, a wife and running a thriving business. And he already has a relationship with the artist that did his back. They've been through hundreds of hours together of tattooing. And he calls him and says, look, I just, I want to finish my front. And I really, it's a time thing. Like I just want it done. I don't have going

to you 12, 15 times in me anymore. Is there any way, I've got the money, I could be put under and you guys could do this art, you and a couple of other artists, and we could get it done much more quickly. I mean, I look at that like, well, first of all, I have a rule in life, it's simple. Anyone can do anything they want as long as it doesn't hurt another person. Simple. I mean, I think that one's a huge one. That relates to world wars

and things. You've got people killing each other in the Middle East because they don't believe in... Basically, people are saying, you should live the way I live. It escalates to the point of murder. So you can bring it all the way down to the smallest of things. I don't think you should have blue hair. It bothers me. You should have hair like me. It goes back to when I was a punk rock kid. I remember my first thoughts on why I had blue hair. was just like, fuck you. I'm gonna

have blue hair. Explain to me why that's a problem for you. And so I have that rule, right? Now, based on that rule, You have two people. A client can not do it. Then don't get anesthesia tattoo. A tattooer can say, I will not do that. Then don't tattoo someone under anesthesia. But if you've got the client and the tattooer, and Well, I would say, so the initial question in that analogy are two different things, right? under what

you just said, for sure, right? If everyone's in agreeance, if it's just my feeling on it, right? I guess what you see with everything in the world, right, is people start devaluing everyone's effort and time, right? Everyone's trying to be more important than the other. And what I don't like about anesthesia, especially, is that even if you can, right, even if it's a time thing for you, you're not considering, like as a general concept, you're not considering the artist's time, right? You're

not saying, okay, well, this is a different process than you do every day. I'm going to interrupt your life, right, and your process because That's true, but the artist has the ability to say Right, but yeah, so if you just break it down to a yes or no, of course, but as a general, I think when you have places that push it, of course they agree to it, they wanna do it, you know, but I just, I think it devalues the process and I think it also kind of puts

this idea in people's heads that like, well if I have the money, right, I can act this way or do this because, you know, look at social media. It's all, everything is, is a mind game, right? So everyone sees the anesthesia tattoos. They think, well, yeah, that should be offered everywhere. Oh, your shop doesn't offer anesthesia. Well, you're a lesser shop now. Oh, you, you know what I mean? I think there's a lot of like scenarios with it that just, you know, take

I like to be devil's advocate. I'm going to tell you straight up, I'm doing one for this reason. I don't even know if I'm fully into it either. But I've always been the type of guy that's like, I'm going to try this. You know, and the thing with me was, well, first of all, it's me and four other bad motherfuckers. Right. Because I have seen that. But when you talk about and under anesthesia and a kind of a half ass tattoo that was rushed. Well,

that my judgment there is I just don't like shitty tattooing. Right. Right. But if you can put somebody out there choosing in the artist is choosing it and they walk away with something that's pretty dope. I just fail to see why not. And but but yeah, but I do hear everything I'm an old school dude. Yeah. And that might be the thing, too. Right. You know, like I just you know, you get stuck in your ways. But I also, I don't know, I don't disagree with

everyone can make a choice. Like, hey, I don't care that people do, but I also think it's so much in the kind of public now, right? That I think people need to talk about scenarios of it, as opposed to it as a general, you know? Because back to what you said, Everyone should be able to do what they want. As long as it doesn't hurt or impact anyone else, do it. But I think we have to also kind of look at microcosms of it and be like, is this really a great idea?

And I guess really for me, I keep a super strict schedule. I know what I'm doing every minute of every day. For a solid year, I do a year rotation and then a wait list. If I want to do something, I have to make sure that I'm not impacting the commitment I made to other people's time. So I think if someone approached me with like, hey, I want to do this, I'm going to pay extra for this because my time's valuable, and I don't have time to do this, I would say, so is mine. I have

the ability to say no. It's just not for me. This is how we structure it so I can One, keep giving everything I have to this industry, you know what I mean? But two, also I have a life, right? You know, like I have to be able to dedicate some time to that too. So, but then it's just personal choice, you And it was a good conversation. And I'm happy to have had it with you. And I'm just, uh, I kind of almost am doing this

I'm sure it's going to be awesome. I'll tell you right now, I might walk out of this thing and be like, fucking never doing that again. You know, maybe I learned that I can't create art at the level I expect me to be able to create it. And believe me, if the art sacrifices, I'm out. I currently believe with the team I have, we're going to make some rad art. And I think we will. But it'll be interesting. I was the first guy to get

the rotaries with batteries. I was the first old dude to start using iPads. I'm always like, fuck it, let's try it. And some of it works. Actually, a lot of it has worked. I'm still tattooing with rotaries and batteries on the back of them, and I'm still using my iPad. And I did an AI, me, fusion, bodysuit art piece recently. And my friends are like, you fucking made that? I toyed with AI, used it as inspiration, made the art on my iPad. So it's this whole

digital fucking bodysuit. I think it's cool looking, but I thought I was gonna get creamed. And people were like, no, it's fucking cool, man. I'm like, okay, for sure. So I'm always whatever everyone's getting a little huffy about, I'm the first guy to be like, let's try it. So that's just me. But I also like to hear everyone's opinion. But I agree with you. But in the end, you said what I think, which is, you don't gotta do it, don't do it. Everyone has a choice here. Do

what you want. That's kind of the core backbone of the tattoo industry was a world of people that got together that was saying to the rest of the world, we are going to do whatever we want and don't judge me. I'm a nice person. If I hurt you or if I had sex with your wife, we have a problem. Until then, what's your problem? I have a tattoo on my forehead. What is your problem? How does this affect you in any way? So I kind of layer that onto all these different things like anesthesia tattooing.

What is your problem? And you didn't have a problem, but you were just saying, you don't really like it. It does because it does rob away this deeper thing we talked about in the beginning, which is this soul connection that happens in tattooing. Well, Me and this client and four tattooers working on them. We're not gonna walk away with a super soulful moment Yeah, we're just going towards like how much can we get done? Yeah, it's a

different thing. Yeah, very cool Tell us how you feel like why be at a convention is you know, I'm sure

No, not at all. So So, you know, I've been doing a lot of conventions around the world for many years, right? And, you know, when you're younger, you have a different kind of hunger for it. So I understand from every aspect. But, you know, the whole reason you're supposed to go to a convention is to network, is to shake hands, is to be around your community, you know? And you really see that getting lost nowadays. You

know, you see people come in, pop their headphones in. They're gonna bury themselves in a three-day tattoo to try to win a trophy, and they're not gonna say hi to anyone. They're not even looking up, you know. They tattoo for 12 hours, right? Go to bed, wake up, do the same all weekend. Then they're gone, right? They accomplished nothing. They accomplished no tangible reason to be there, but they think they did, right? And then they enter

it, right? You know, they enter their clients there. They just got tortured all weekend. You know, like, yeah, we're going to win. And they don't win, right? And it devalues everything, right? The client just sat there for nothing. They could have had a different experience. You know, you could have let them take a break, you know? And you didn't do anything either, right? You did a tattoo. It's probably beautiful. Why? And there is, like we said earlier, it's fine. But

And the trophies, I've won a few. I kind of backed off the trophy stuff in a younger year because I just like, this feels so fucking weird. Yeah. I feel like, what do you mean a trophy? How do you decide what's the best one? It's so interpretable. And then of course, I lost a couple that I thought I should have won. I probably won a couple that I shouldn't have. This is getting fucking weird.

And then, yeah, if you lose one with your client, what Yeah, yeah, you're both standing there and you're like, oh, buddy, no, it was rigged. And it's like, but I agree. It's awkward. I think it's OK to have contests at a convention for healed work, right? Because it's a totally different element, you know? But if they just got rid of Tattoo of the Day and Best of Show, the entire Tattoo of the Day makes people go insane. Yeah. They do insane shit. They don't talk to anybody. It really does

take a client and an artist completely out of the community. Chasing tattoo of the day. Back when I was young, the tattoo of the day was everyone just ripped a really fun six-hour piece and we all decided which one was the coolest. Then somebody was like, I'm gonna get tattoo of the day for sure because I'm doing a back piece in one day and everyone's going for monster jobs. I mean, again, do what you want, but yeah, it is a weird one,

Tattoo of the Dads. I've never thought of it like you just said. I kind of agree with that. Well, very good. Very, very honored to meet you and to get to know you better. Thank you for making time for the show. I'll say hi to you when I get back down on the floor. Are you tattooing down there today? Well, good luck down there. I hope you get tattoo of the day. I'm going

Yeah, you should be. I'm not even going to go to dinner with anyone tonight. I'm just going Everybody out there if you're into black-and-gray work with a very Surrealistic vibe, please check out Tony's work Tony Mancilla at Tony Mancilla on Instagram. Yeah. Okay, very simple M-a-n-c-i-a. Thank you for tuning in and we'll see you on the Peace out Chops