212: Kristjan Kullamägi – Breakouts, Home Runs & Exponential Returns

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What's good, my friends? Welcome to yet another episode of Chat with Traders. This is number 212. Now my guest is someone who several listeners have requested, and also the person who Stan Gloosman made reference to in the previous episode. It's Swedish swing trader Christian Kulamagi. Christian's been trading the US equity market full time since twenty eleven, and although he got off to a rocky start, he's arrived at a very rare level of trading success.

I guess you could say Christian is a member of the Eight Figure Club, having realized tens of millions in trading profits, which is only more impressive given the fact that he's a self-funded, independent trader. Well, trader, gamer. I know Christian thinks of it more as a video game nowadays. So things we talk about. To start with we go back to twenty eleven and discuss Christian's beginnings, which includes his origins as a day trader.

From there we get into how he evolved into a swing trader, how he discovered and researched profitable setups, and then we do a deep dive into one of his setups, a breakout strategy. Last of all, links to everything mentioned and referenced throughout this episode can be found in the show notes at chatwithraders.com slash two one two. Alright, here we go, ladies and gents. My guest, Christian Kulamagi.

Christian, I wanted to ask you first thing, uh when did you actually start trading? What year was it? It was uh in twenty eleven. Okay. But I started investing in twenty ten. Okay. And when you started trading, did you go like straight into it full time or was it just sort of a bit of a a side hustle? It was uh I I went into it full time, pretty much uh from the beginning. It was um just um I was uh in the final months of my uh like getting my degree in uh biomedical laboratory science.

And then I got into this trading thing and uh it completely took over. I I just focused one hundred percent on that. So I kinda just dropped out of school just in the end and to focus on the trading thing. So yeah, you could say I went all in. Oh, so you didn't even finish your degree? No. Oh wow. Okay. That's a that's a real commitment. Did you have a part time job or anything like that at the time?

Yes, I actually did have a I was working as a security guard like a mall cop or or s something similar. Um as uh yeah, as a part time while I was studying. So I had uh options in case the trading stuff wouldn't work out. So I had you know security net. You know, I could, you know, just finish my degree or I could, you know, do the security guard work. Yeah, you had a little bit of income as as some support. Yes. So how much money did you start out trading with?

About five thousand US dollars was my first That was your first attempt, okay. So I presume there was probably multiple attempts then? Yes, in the first couple of years I blew up three or four times and I started with the first time I started with five thousand and the other times I had like three, three, four thousand. US dollars something similar.

How long did it take you to blow up each of those accounts? Like were they each short lived or was it just kind of uh small losses over time just slowly grinding away at your account? Yeah, so the first time it's kind of funny. I actually paper traded uh for a week or two because you know, I read around that everyone said you should paper trade in the beginning. So I paper traded and I doubled that at my paper trading account.

in uh in two weeks. And then I started uh trading with real money and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna be rich. This is like May twenty eleven and I I I was thinking, hey, I'll be rich uh by fall. uh what in r happened in reality I lost most of that money in the first two months. Then I went back to my security guard ya uh job and um for six months or so saved up money. Started again, uh, with a few thousand, three thousand maybe. blew up again and uh

few months to six months uh intervals. And it actually the first one was the shortest, but every time it blew up I learned something new. I improved a little bit and uh it took a longer and longer. Uh between the times to blew up. And did it rattle your confidence when you were losing this money? Oh yes, absolutely. Uh absolutely. It was a horrible experience. That was my life savings at that time. I was maybe twenty one years old and I had saved up for, you know, three years.

So as I understand it today you're you're mostly a swing trader, if not entirely a swing trader. But when you first got started You were day trading. So I I'm just curious to hear a little bit about what was your experience like when you were day trading? I got into day trading because um the people I found on the internet, on social media, they were mostly day traders, so that's what I did too. And uh

Uh I didn't really know there was any other types of trading. Um so I thought trading was state trading. And in the beginning I really didn't have any method or system or anything. I had no idea. I just followed what other people did that I perceived to be good at trading. Uh but I really had no con l like I didn't really know what a s in the beginning what a stop loss was. I didn't know position sizing. I just went all in on all trades.

And I didn't know anything about like trailing stops or like profit taking and what to expect from a certain setup. Yeah, so I in the beginning I really didn't know anything. I just did things randomly and uh it was obviously very stressful. And uh scary. Were you trading the US market right from the get go or did you experiment on your local market there?

Yes, I did uh start with the US markets. I I realized early that's that's where the that's where the action is. So I never actually bothered with the Swedish stock market. Um at all uh when it comes to trading. I just focused completely on the US market. That's where that's my trading software and all of that. It was uh just US markets only. I didn't even bother getting anything for the Swedish stock market. So at what point did you begin gravitating towards swing trading?

It took a f it was uh maybe a couple of years after I became profitable, or maybe a year after I became profitable in twenty thirteen, about two years exactly two years after I um started trading. Yeah, I realized I look at a lot of stocks, I looked at charts and I actually went through all the stocks in the US markets and I I realized that the the big moves take months, weeks and months and years to play out.

Day trading is, you know, it's it's really hard to catch like a hundred percent move or fifty percent move. unless you're r lucky and get into one of these micro, small cap, high flyers really early and, you know, that have to double on the day, but it's it's very hard to catch those.

So I realized I I uh and I also found uh other people uh on social media that were actually swing trading. So I learned about swing trading and I also read some books where that talked about swing and position trading, which is a little bit longer term swing trading. So that's how I gravitated into it.

has m better risk reward and you're not fighting near your entry all the time. Uh in day trading you're always near your entry most of the time. But in swing trading if you get a really if you if you catch a big one You know, i it's it's gonna be the stock is gonna be above your stop for a long, long time. You don't have to worry about it. You don't have to constantly look at look at the stock and monitor it. I um realized that it's also much more scalable.

Like back then I still had a very small account, but uh I realized it that you know, if if my accounts would grow, it it's easier with a with a bigger account. Because in day trading Especially the types of stocks they traded, mostly micro and not micro caps, yeah, micro caps too. Micro and small caps.

they weren't mo many of them weren't super liquid. And even I had some issues with liquidity and slippage on some stocks they traded. So that's also something I I realized kind of early that gravitated me into swing trading. Uh but the process took a couple of years before I went from uh ninety five percent day trading to ninety five percent swing trading. It wasn't an overnight thing. It took it took it took time.

one step at a time. It was very uncomfortable um in the beginning holding stuff overnight because I had been brainwashed with that oh holding stocks overnight is uh very dangerous. You can't control your risk.

But it's it's not true. You can control r your risk. It's called position sizing and also If you check out if you check the like the earnings states and if you if you if it it happens to be like a biotech company, make sure there's no pending data or FDA uh um decisions, you know, it it's not that dangerous. The trading is much more hazardous, I would say.

Okay. It's interesting that well from the sounds of it, that you did actually start to see some consistency and some profitability uh day trading before you actually did uh make that switch across to uh or eventually switch across to swing trading. Absolutely. Uh I I I I um I probably made my first million mostly day trading. All right. Uh yeah.

Yeah, but everything after that has mostly been a swing trading. So yeah, yeah, absolutely. I was profitable, uh consistently profitable for uh for a couple of years before I went uh mostly swing trading. Obviously it was a hybrid approach for a while there in between. Okay. That really is quite interesting actually. I mean, if you've made a million dollars day trading and then but you still see bigger opportunities and swing trading.

You know, when you did make that first million dollars, how did your mindset towards trading change? Like, did you Did you envision that you would go on as you have done today to make tens of millions of dollars? Like, did you see that as like sort of your your trajectory now, like you knew that was coming, it was now just a matter of time, or did you still have some doubts about how big you could get as a trader?

Yes, i in the early years when I w um in the first few years after I started making money. I it was still um like I it it was still at times hard to believe it since the first two years when I was mostly losing money, it was such um uh uh horrible experience. Like I got scars for life. I was constantly depressed and And when I started consistently make money, it felt like unreal. It's like, is this really happening? Like I I can actually make a living off of this. Is it just pure luck?

But after a while I realised like, okay, no, I mean it's the same I'm what I'm pretty much doing, I'm just trading the same patterns that occur over and over again. And if uh if I can uh you know, find the same patterns that applies to swing trading, I I can I can scale it up and uh me uh and uh the way I saw it was I would make the same amount of money But with less effort, because day trading is really a lot of effort. But the way I I didn't maybe really see it scaling up. Um

As like it wasn't really my first priority. What I wanted to do was like make the same amount of money but with less less effort. Uh because I was really I was getting tired of sitting like, you know, from open to the close in front of the computer looking for trade.

when I saw some other people were who were swing trading who were mostly doing their entries maybe first hour of the day and then it was just monitoring their positions the rest of the time, they really didn't do much uh rest of the day. Oh they uh and uh yeah, so that's really what I was after. Like I'm uh I'm a lazy person, so what can I say? Gotcha. I'd like to know a bit about when you did kind of make that that transition across to more of a swing trader.

Like how did you seek out how did you discover the setups that you were going to trade? Like what was that process like? The I'm talking about the research and the studying here to find the sort of patterns that you would go after. Yeah, so the uh setup ideas I got from uh from uh a guy, a stock bee. That's where I got the step setup idea and I also uh read um a bro a book by William O'Neill, How to Make Money in Stock.

And that's where I really got these setup ideas that these uh you know, stocks move in the same patterns as they have done for a hundred years. So what I did, I I uh went into my uh sharding software and pretty much went through every single US stock And I'll look for those specific patterns that I had stumbled upon, thanks to the book and this guy, Stock B.

And I realized, wow, I mean, it's the same patterns. Like nothing is different. It's the same it was the same patterns in the uh early 1900s and even late 1800s. It was um the same patterns in the fifties, same pat patterns in the eighties, in the nineties, and it's it it's the same patterns now. Um that was maybe what could it be, maybe twenty fifteen or something.

So I realized wow this is if I if I learn this, if I really master this these setups, like this one setup, uh which is a the just a breakout setup and the variations of those. uh that setup, I I can really wow, like it it felt like I w had stumbled upon a gold mine, really. And how did you begin to build confidence in those setups?

It was a combination of studying the patterns. What I did I built a uh data uh database in Evernote, which is pretty much uh note taking software. I took screenshots of all the setups before, after uh both on the daily and like the intraday uh time frames, just to look at how what what uh how does a good setup look like at the start of the move or before the move at when it starts breaking out and like a few weeks, a few months after, like how does it how does it act?

Um and I looked at all these variations and that's how I built the confidence. And I started uh trading the setup myself too and I saw some success and And it felt like I was always improving. I was always uh learning a new variation or you know, something something new. So that's really how I Build the confidence. It's really like I say on my stream too, like everyone should do it. Whatever setup, if you stumble up on a setup and you wanna trade it.

Like back test it. Like like look through look look through hundreds, if not thousands of examples of that setup and build a database. And go through that database once in a while. Uh just scroll through it. That's how you memorize this. It it's it's all about pattern recognition really. Trading is all about pattern recognition. And you can it could be just purely technical and you can also

um combine it with fundamentals like I do. I also look at theme, uh what's the theme, what's the earnings, revenues, I look at the news overall, like what's driving what what's driving the stock. Um so I I found some similarities there too. It's the same things that have worked for a hundred years, really. That's how you build the confidence. That's how you do it. There's no other way.

Well let's go into this a lot further. I'd love to do a deep dive on this particular strategy. I mean, as I understand it, I think there's there's kind of three different setups which are your main types of plays nowadays.

Um, I mean we we could go through and we could talk a little bit about each of those setups, but I think it would be most beneficial just to pick on this one particular setup and and go and go deep on that. So Before we do, just summarize for me the objective of the strategy. Like what is the goal here? What is it trying to achieve? Yes, so the simplest of the uh three methods I use is it's just uh a breakout.

um uh on the on the daily daily time time frame. Uh you really don't need any intraday uh to look at the intraday time frame for that. I usually do I use the sixty minute charts too, just to get a little bit of a zoomed in um view. If you look at a stock, like any stock that says doubles or triples or quadruples or whatever over a period of months or years.

It's pretty much the same patterns. You have a leg higher. Obviously not every stock moves like this. There there but but m a lot of them do. They they move like stairs. Okay, so let's say you you have a stock or a stair with say ten ten steps. Okay, let's look at something it's like any stock that's say gone up for three, four years. So you have a leg higher and then it usually goes sideways or pull backwards.

pulls back and uh many times uh what happens is the volatility contracts like it gets tighter and then you have the next step higher and the same thing happens goes sideways or pulls back and it gets uh uh like builds a range um where volatility ideally not always but the volatility usually like the range gets tighter. So our goal is to identify that those stair steps and buy it just as it is about to break out. Uh into the next uh into the next step.

Obviously you can have different timestamps on these uh things you can you know hold them for maybe three to five days or and just sell into strength or you can try to hold for uh bigger moves uh like even try to hold for through the next uh several steps Um, and maybe use the moving averages like I do, the 10 and 20 day moving averages, trailing stops and try to f um go for a bigger move.

Uh do fewer trades that way, um, or do more trades by just buying breakouts and selling after three the day three or five. Because that's how they th that's how stocks move. They move in momentum bursts, as uh this guy Stoppy, where I uh learned his setup from. And you you know, y uh and I verified it myself. This is really how stocks move. If you identify the right right stock.

Obviously, like abs like momentum is a big thing. The stronger the stock, the better, which is m counterintuitive for many people, but that that's true. Uh like the stocks that make the biggest moves are usually that keep Doing the biggest moves. And I'm talking about like real stocks that go l like like mid and large caps mainly.

Uh not these like pump stocks that are really, really popular right now, these uh like micro small caps that go up on total hype and make a two hundred percent move in a day. That's not really the types I'm I I trade, even though if I still was a day trader,

those are the stocks I would trade because those are the ones that at biggest introday range. But just to clarify that that's not really uh uh uh what I what I do anymore. Uh I look for stocks that have Look like like this like when I talk about the first leg higher, those moves are usually several weeks, uh and sometimes even several months. And there's obviously many variations of that.

But that's uh that's how stocks move pretty much. Like you can look at any stock, look at Tesla. That's a perfect, perfect stair step pattern. Look at look at NIO. Uh like j just take some big flyers, big you know, some of the leading stocks recently. Look at something like Apple over the years or Google. Obviously, those are maybe a bit slower type of movers, but it's the same patterns.

You can choose how fast of a stock you want to trade. And obviously you want to be in the fastest moving stock.

What do you typically do? Do you hold for that uh kind of initial burst of momentum and sell after a few days post breakout, or do you generally try and ride it through a few steps as you described? Yes, I do it it depends on the stock of um like if there is um Like if a stock has a run up into a catalyst, um, like an earnings or or or anything, a presentation.

um if it's a very hot stock in a very hot sector. Um I usually I like my my core uh belief I like I want to hold stocks for as long as possible. I really don't want to sell them until I absolutely have to or feel like I'll feel like I have to, uh, for any any type of reason. Uh but I usually sell some like the first move higher if you buy a successful breakout, that's the most

Like that that's uh the most predictable part of the move. So what I usually do, I always sell some into that first burst. uh to lock in a little bit of profits. Maybe I sell twenty percent or twenty-five percent or it can vary a lot. Uh just lock in some profits and and and uh now I can now it's a stress free trade pretty much. Uh even if it would stop me out. I I would still uh worst case scenario break even or maybe even make money at depending on how much I move the stop higher.

But sometimes if the if it's an earnings are Just a few days away and I still buy it because it looks really good. Um I and if I don't have a big profit padding, I really don't like to hold uh hold my positions into earnings or into any type of catalyst. I just uh sell it. I don't I don't wanna risk it like, you know, things could go any way. You never know.

And uh yeah, I I just want to control my risk as much as possible. Uh I don't really like to gamble um over over earnings, for example, if I really don't have a big profit padding already. Right. Have you ever watched a stock explode and thought, if only I had the capital, or sat on the sidelines because your account balance felt too small to matter? Good news

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Um now you briefly touched on stock selection there. I'd just like to go into that a little more. Um you said you've mostly trading these these larger caps. Um, how do you scan and how do you identify the stocks? Like what exactly are you looking for in a company? Yes, so I scan for um I I also uh like uh like I like you said, I mostly treat large caps nowadays, but um

Just a few years ago I traded a lot of when I'm my accounts were much smaller, I traded a lot of mid caps and small caps too. I'm I'm just forced to trade the large caps nowadays because they are the most liquid But it's the same, it applies to any uh market cap stock really. So what I scan for is the strongest stocks with a certain uh with a certain liquidity. Like I use a hundred and fifty million dollar cutoff, but just like two years ago I had I think I had like twenty million

uh dollar dollar volume cutoff uh on my scans. And what I do I scan for the strongest stocks, the strongest two percent of stocks um in um different time frames like the f um one month, three month, six month, twelve month and eighteen month time frames. to cat to to find all the biggest movers over these time frames. Like I said before, it's the biggest move uh movers, the strongest stocks that make keep on making the biggest moves.

So that that's how I find those. The most liquid stocks that I can find that are that are the strongest.

In an ideal scenario, like what criteria do you want checked off before you actually get into the market? Like before you hit that buy button, what exactly do you want to see? Yes, so Obviously, I want a big absolute momentum. Uh and also a big relative momentum towards other other stocks. It has to be a very, very strong stock. Um over any time frame. Let's say a stock has trip uh sorry doubled over the past three months. Yeah, so that's a lot of momentum in a stock.

So what I wanna see is like it's very hard to describe these um like it's it's very intuitive you you can't really scan for this like I always you know people I always ask if you could Like scan for these patterns. And I always say just scan for the strongest moving stocks. The patterns you have to learn yourself, but like linearity.

Like how orderly is the pullback or the sideways uh consolidation after the previous leg higher in the stock? It's very hard to describe it. But what I usually want to see is Let's let's say a stock uh doubles in three months and then it pulls back, maybe it retraces a third of its move. And usually when stocks pull back, like these momentum stocks, they pull back to the 10 and the 20 day moving averages.

And I want to see how they act around those moving averages. What I want to see is they start building like either they bounce. Direct uh off the moving average, let's say let's say the 20 day, or if it starts building higher lows above the 20 day. And then just getting like the shart gets tighter over the next few weeks or the next few months. Uh that that's that's called linearity. Um like people post like on my stream, people post.

setups all the time, like do you think this is a good setup or or is is that a good setup? And like And this is This is the hard part, like identifying a good setup, like a really good setup versus something that's random and mediocre, because that's gonna also gonna reflect on your results. If you trade the random setups, your results are gonna be random too. You want to find really find the outlier stocks like

You also want to see if does it have relative strength? Like the best time to trade this breakout method is after a pullback. in the markets. You want to see the stocks that held up the most, that had big moves previously and held up the most. And if you master this setup, if you trade this setup,

Like coming out of a small correction or a like say a five, ten, fifteen percent correction in the overall indices, that's almost like free money for this type of setup. Because if you can identify these stocks that held up the most. during the correction that maybe went down initially in the correction, but after as the correction went on, these stocks stopped going down and actually maybe started building higher lows.

And that's that's telling you something. If you have a stock that's gone up a lot and then it stops going down when the market goes down, you know, the stock is trying to tell you something. Um and that that's that's what leading stocks do. Like ev every bull market, this is obviously I'm gonna talk more about it later. You obviously need a um uptrending or sideways market to trade this method. Um

You have the leading stocks. Like leading stocks are the stocks that go up the most and that are the most liquid. And those are really the stocks you want to trade. Um and they are they're mostly mid and large caps, but even a small cap can be a leading stock uh Uh and those are really the stocks that they they don't go down when the market goes down. It's like you try to

push uh uh like a like a tennis ball underwater, it just pops back up. And that that's really those are the type of stocks you want to find when trading this method.

I know another thing which you like to look for, um, because you kinda said it a little earlier, and I think I may have read this on your Twitter. Uh this isn't a word for word quote, but It was something to the extent of you don't want to be um blindly trading momentum and chart patterns. You also want to see or have a fundamental angle to the trade as well. Um would you mind explaining that a little more?

Yes. Now to clarify, you can make a v just trading off uh momentum and shock patterns, you can make a very good living. Uh but I think If you can combine some type of fundamentals, because at the end of the day, there are some type of fundamentals that drive these stocks. Like the fundamentals are the fuel and momentum is like uh what happens after the fuel.

So if you can identify what the fuel is, many times, like if you go back like like I did, uh study the biggest winning stocks, most of the time uh for big big moves multi-year moves it's usually fundamental related like you can clearly identify the fundamentals it it may have a lot of like big earnings and or revenue growth. So that's something. If you can find the fastest growing stocks and combine with this method, you will have a big edge.

Uh a lot of stocks don't have any earnings or revenue at all. They're more like story stocks, concept stocks. And right now we see a lot of these types of stocks it it could they they could be anything like battery related, anything um like battery metal l related, like lithium

Stocks are really hot right now, and a lot of these stocks have very little or no earnings right now. Uh But if you know what the driver is, we know we know that ob obviously like electric cars are a very big thing and el electrification is a big thing and th that's a that's a piece of fundamentals you can add y if you if you know what these stocks are, like the group

And you you trade those stocks, you know, these uh these these uh patterns and these stocks, you will have a big edge versus trading something that Like super random, just a random stock. You you don't even know what it is. Like I I think if you can identify these groups that are hot. Uh they may be hot because of earnings and revenue growth, big earnings and revenue growth, or they could be hot because of something else. For example, like this lithium and battery stock.

that most of most of them are really like concept and storage stocks. They m many of them don't even have a product. Like this QS uh is a battery stock on the US market. Um they re they don't they won't have any revenue for at least five years, but they have this exciting battery technology.

And that's something I identified early, like wow. Like I read I read up on it and I knew all of these electric car stocks were super hot and other uh battery related things were hot. So I kept uh track of this thing and once I saw it getting a lot of momentum and volume and I anti identified my type of setup on it like I I did some decent size on it. And that gave me conviction versus

Let's say I would have traded it and I didn't know what it was. Oh, what a nice uh momentum stock with a perfect little flag breakout. I wouldn't have done as much size on it. And I also tried to hold it for longer. Uh So I I think like if I would take the fundamentals out of my trading, my profitability would drop a lot. So like fundamentals can they they pl they do play a big role, at least for me personally. Uh it it it it helps me give uh conviction. It's really what it um uh comes down to.

Now when you get into these positions, are you timing your entries intraday? Like how you how do you approach that part? How do you actually get into the market?

I buy everything at once. uh very aggressively I would add. I'm a very aggressive trader with entries and exits. That causes some problems with the size I trade. Uh because I uh I create these big wicks even on some pretty liquid stocks, just because I'm so aggressive with my interest exits. But that's how I trade. Like I don't wanna bother with You know you're not going to be able to do

spending several minutes getting into a stock trying to get in between the bid and ask and get these uh ECN rebates and like I I don't I don't bother with that. I just wanna get in and out in i in a few seconds. And that yeah. And I I just with a breakout method I just buy everything at once. And then I scale out. I usually scale some into strength and then I use a like a trailing stop. It's usually a 10 or the 20-day moving average for the rest.

Okay. And if the trade doesn't go your way for whatever reason, I guess here we're sort of moving on a little bit to risk and sizing. If the trade doesn't go your way, where are you going to stop out? Lows of the day. So what I do is I I buy the uh opening range highs, and the opening range highs is when the stock takes out.

Uh obviously it has to be a breakout first. Um so it it it's not uh like like so the opening range highs could be the first one minute on the one minute candle, five minute candle or or the sixty minute candle. So whatever uh Like let's say a stock uh breaks a range, it happens to be on the first one minute candle. So I wait for that one minute first minute candle to uh uh finish.

And then I bra uh buy when it takes out the highs of the day. And then I use the lows of the day as my stop. And it goes for the five and the sixty minute candles also. Sometimes Let's say a stock breaks uh it breaks the first uh one minute opening range highs, but it may not be a breakout, it may not still be in a range.

Um and then it keeps on going and maybe it goes up another three, five percent or something. Uh and then it's obvious that it's a breakout, then I may buy the five minute breakout instead. because that's when a breakout happens. So those are really like very simple entries and exits. It's just a one minute, first minute range, a five minute range, and sixty minute range, and the stop is always at lows of the day.

Sorry, would you mind just clarifying that a little bit? Are you looking for a breakout on the the one minute, five minute or sixty minute? Okay, so okay yeah. So the breakout has to be obvious on the daily chart, but let's say a stock is in a range like You are watching stock like for for a potential breakout and it opens up, let's say it uh opens up break even and then it goes up uh a few percent um on the first one minute.

On the first one minute candle. So the first one minute candle finalizes, but this is a stock may still be inside of that range. And you're talking about the range on the daily chart. Yes, exactly. Exactly. It's not a breakout on a daily chart yet.

Um, so you don't know it's gonna break out, right? So you d you're not gonna buy that first one minute candle because it's it looks just another day in inside of a range. Like I buy breakouts. I don't anticipate them, I don't Like I I buy them as they break out. Um so w to make it like to simplify it, like I I I mostly buy uh like when it's when it's obvious it's starting to break out, just as it's starting to break out.

Oh preferably. Many times I also buy when it's obvious it's already breaking out and I wish I was in from earlier. But I use these like opening range highs, the one minute, five minutes, sixty minutes. like candles and the loads of that those candles too to manage my stock.

So even though you're a swing trader, are there often times when you'll buy the breakout, so you know, presumably the high of the day at that point, um, and then you may also get stopped out within the same day. Does that happen quite frequently? Oh yeah, it can happen. You know, sometimes I buy something and I'm I get stopped at two minutes later. Um that that happens all the time.

Especially if you use like the first one minute opening range highs, the fail rate is a bit higher, actually much higher, versus the five minute and sixty minute. But Uh the pros are that you get in earlier on the ones that work. So there's pros and cons. But but yeah, yeah, it happens all the time. Like my win rate. last year and I had insane returns last year was only about thirty five percent. And the year before, twenty nineteen, it was twenty five percent. So yeah.

you you have to get used to get stopped out a lot and sometimes within many times the same day and many times within a few minutes that's the name of the game that's that's really Yeah, that's how it is. Let's say you do get stopped out on a particular name, are you I mean, I presume you don't take that off your your radar altogether. You you rewatch that for a or you continue watching that for a reentry.

Yeah, absolutely. If it's a good looking like it happens a lot that they especially when I buy the o first one minute opening range highs, when it breaks out on the first one minute. Um the f like I said uh just said, the fail rate is a bit higher and the one minute breakout. And what happens a lot of times is, you know, I get stopped out and just a few minutes later the stock takes out the highs again. So, you know, I get back in. It takes it stake it takes out the highs.

Um, so yeah, it happens a lot. I can I can buy stock, it's stopped out, and rebuy it, you know, within a few minutes. uh sometimes. Not it doesn't happen that often, but you know, it happens. So and you can't you can't hesitate if it's a good setup you gotta you gotta get in back in even if it means you have to rebuy it higher. Um but that's that's just yeah that's how it is. But you also have to you know

I'm also very aggressive and you know, if I get stopped out, I get stopped out. I don't I don't think, I just get out. I've seen I I've seen too many scenarios, you know, when things just keep going uh lower and uh you know, you hesitate and now suddenly your stop is twice as big as it would have been and now it's three times as big and it's just you know, frees up mental power, not to overthink things. I just get in and I just get out.

So how do you manage your positions? Let's say you you've bought a breakout, it's successfully moving higher.

How do you manage it going forward? Like I know you use uh trading stops. You've spoken a little bit about um taking partial profits into strength, uh, which is great, but what about the stop management? Yes, so initially my stop is always uh uh lows of the day. Uh and once the moving averages, the ten and the twenty uh day moving averages, it depends on the stock. The faster moving stops, I use stocks I moved uh I use the ten day and the slower moving ones, I use the twenty day and sometimes

Uh I I s you know, it it depends. It depends really um on a lot of things. Uh but once the moving averages start to catch up, I I also start to trail, let's say I have um decided I'm gonna use uh 10 day on a certain stock.

And once it starts um um moving higher, like the 10 day catches up to my initial stops and moves higher, uh then I start uh moving in my stop uh with the 10 day. So what I do I wait for the first close like I have one absolute stop where I like okay I get out no matter what and the trailing stop is for like if it violates it intraday I'm not worried um I only wait for the close like let's say um if it's like 10-15 minutes before they close and it's kind of obvious it's gonna close

below that moving average, that's when I close the rest of my position. But intraday violations are very common. And that that's something that got me all the time previously when I was still learning and experimenting with this method. Like as soon as the price uh like undercut the

uh the moving average, my trailing stop. I I just closed it and then the stock just went straight up from there and closed green on the day. Like it it it touched the moving average or undercut it a bit and then it just rebounded. And yeah, so very important to wait for the close um for for that trailing stop. And then you also have that stop where you're like, I'm gonna get out no matter what. Do you ever add to a winning position?

Only if there's a good setup. I don't add just because something is, you know, going my way. Like I said, I just, you know, buy everything at once. I know some people who trade similar setups than this, like breakout type of setup. uh like Dan Sanger, uh uh I sh I'm sure you heard about him. Like he that's that's also a guy that trades these types of setups I learned a lot from.

Like I know he scales in. He b he buys like fifty percent and thirty percent and twenty percent um as the stock goes higher. So there's many different ways to do it. I I really don't. I only do it if If I'm uh in for a longer move, I use the maybe the twenty day moving average, which is a bit slower, and the stock builds the next uh step. Let's say I've been in a stock for a month or two already.

and uh it has a new s uh as a a new setup develops uh and uh you know that that I would buy it and I would treat it as a new a new position, even though I'm already in it. So those ads, let's say I double my position at the stock. that that uh new position I I treat it as a new trade with the same tr with the same rules for that new uh like I used uh like I described earlier. So it's it's a new trade. And the position I had earlier, I treated that trade separately. If that makes sense.

That does make perfect sense, I'm following. Okay.

I have some questions just around swing trading in general. When you're swing trading You're you know, you're holding numerous positions for weeks and even months at a time, sometimes. Uh, you're much more susceptible to moves of the broader market. How do you deal with that? Yes, um absolutely. So it helps getting into a ti uh times where the market already had a correction. Like, for example, uh early November uh last year, uh the NASDAQ had been uh in a correction for a couple of months.

Uh it had a correction, bounced a little bit, had an another leg lower. And uh there were a lot of stocks that that na other leg lower, they were just holding. Uh they were just screaming at me, they wanted to go higher. that that's that's the best time to uh buy these things. Um And usually when you had a correction, multi month correction, it it usually takes a few months before you get another pullback in the markets. Um unless obviously you're in a bear market.

My point is you want to get into stocks that show relative strength to the market, that are stronger than the overall market, and that really helps. holding through these these corrections you you know, corrections always happen. uh and uh it it really helps you and these stocks you know if you buy the stocks that already proven they're stronger than the market and shown relative strength, they're gonna keep showing that relative strength usually. for uh for some more time.

Uh but yes, the this is a this is a very the market overall market is very important for this type of trading. Uh like all this like breakout You know, they don't exist in a in a falling market. Like even if you happen to get one, just you know, don't don't touch it. It's it's gonna fail, most likely. Uh so it's very important also to study. uh when this type of trading works and when it doesn't. Uh and in uptrending and sideways markets this type of trading works really, really well.

And downtrending markets, not so much. Um that's that's when it's time to sit in cash, do less, and uh do trade with smaller size if you're trading this particular type of setup. So the market over the market is super super important to be aware of um at least the market sentiment.

Um like you don't have to look at the day to day moves in the markets. Like I rarely do. I I most of the time I don't know if the market is up or down on a day. I just look at my the stocks on my watch list and my scans and my portfolio and that and They're usually not telling the same stories. Sometimes the markets like the NASDAQ can be down on a day and everything in my portfolio is green. And sometimes the market is up on the day and everything in my portfolio is red. So

When I say be very aware of the market, I'm talking more about the overall sentiment and the trend of the market. And that's also something you kind of have to learn with experience. Um, it's not something you really read into a book. You just have to go through it, through a few cycles. You have to see a few sell ups. You have to see a few crazy bull runs, you have to see a few sideways shopping markets to really understand these uh uh relationships.

Yeah.'Cause I mean that's gotta be one of the most frustrating things as a swing trader.

uh to have, you know, what you think is a a great position on it's been going well, and then all of a sudden there's a few bad days in the the broader market and um, you know, you get stopped out uh purely as a Just for no other reason than the market's coming off. But as you said, like if you're in stocks which are generally stronger than the market, that's that's less of a issue. You know, on a portfolio level, do you limit the number of open positions you have at any one time?

I don't really have a limit. What usually happens coming off a correction. Um Like all the methods I trade, I I usually don't um trade much when the market is in a correction. But let's look at an example like Last year with a COVID sell off uh f that lasted about four weeks in uh from like mid

mid uh February to mid March if I remember correctly. So I I so when the market bottomed, uh mid March, I think it was, I really didn't have a lot of things going on in my portfolio. I may have had a few positions here and there. So and then the market started um this big, big, big bull market that started from from that point. And I was a little bit late to it. I really didn't believe the bounce at first. But then I started seeing this enormous amount of setup. So I got into them.

I I went from a couple of positions to seven positions to fifteen positions. What happens when the market is on a multi-month run? uh usually is I end up with a lot of positions because I take some partial profits and sum and then I roll that money into new positions, new breakouts. And uh I can end up with, you know, twenty, twenty-five, and I've had at thirty positions sometimes actually.

So far, every time I ended up with thirty positions, it happened three times in the past twelve months. Every time Uh in the next few days the market uh pulled uh you know started uh like a multi week or month multi month pullback or sideways consolidation. So that's a really good proprietary indicator I have. So yeah, no, I really don't have an upper limit, but I have a I've had thirty positions a few times. But ideally I try to keep it between fifteen, twenty

Uh after twenty it starts getting uh a little bit hard to keep track of them all. But again, like I said before, in swing trading And especially when I have a lot of positions, it means they are all working very well. Some some of my positions may be up a hundred percent, two hundred percent, even if it's some some of these uh crazier, smaller caps like right now the um crypto related stocks that make big, big moves. So I've ha I had a I have a few double doubles

in my portfolio right now. And when they are up that much and already, you know, you sold some uh to lock in profits, the partial positions, you really don't even have to look at them. You can look at you can look at them, you know, a couple of times per day, like You you don't have to monitor them. And that's that's uh that's the good part about swing trading. If you you know and you have this uh bull run.

Yeah, it's it's a low effort type of trading. You also have obviously have to put in a lot of effort at first to learn all of these things. Um uh these patterns, the fundamental drivers of the stocks, the overall market. It takes many years to put it together, but once you get it. it's a fairly low effort type of trading. You don't have to f fanatically look for trades and uh, you know, constantly get in out get out of stuff like you have in day trading.

As you just said, you've got a couple positions in your portfolio there which are up a hundred to two hundred percent. It made me think I should ask you, earlier you said that your win rate was around about thirty four percent uh last year. What's kind of the the the ratio? Obviously it varies greatly here, but what's the you know, your yeah, your ratio of we're talking average win to average loss?

You know, uh that's a very good question and I have no idea. I I I gave up uh doing doing that type of stuff many years ago. uh like looking at the micro stuff in my trading um I I really don't have an idea. I I get I get that question a lot on my uh stream too and I I really only know my win rate because so many people kept asking me about it. So I went back to my churnal and looked it up. And I think I think if you get the big stuff right you don't have to worry about the little stuff.

And yeah, I I yeah. I I honestly I don't know. Okay. No, I I appreciate the transparency. Let me ask you this question then. I might phrase it a little differently. You know, come the end of the year, if you look back at the majority of your gains Do they come from just a few big winners? Like, you know, I can't think of what the name of it is, but it's kinda like that eighty twenty rule. Like, do you find that

Absolutely. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so all about uh uh small losses and big winners and there's maybe you know, I don't again I don't have any data that but I I know intuitively there's a f a few few big winners. that where most of my money comes from. Mo most of the other stuff they kinda break even. But maybe I don't know, ten to twenty percent of my trades. That's where maybe not ten, but definitely like maybe twenty percent of my trades, that's where all my money comes from.

uh really uh the the big ones. And those are like I I've said it also on my stream a lot. Like I'm a I'm a home run trader. I don't I know a lot of traders. They try to make you know go for a higher win rate and try to make money on more trade. Uh but you know, that's that's a style I've chosen. It works for me. Like try to catch the big ones and uh

uh have a very high uh or actually a very low win rate. Have a very, very low win rate. So most of my trade um just you know, even themselves out and then go for that. I I again I don't have any numbers, but maybe that twenty percent or fifteen percent of the trades that really that's that's where the money is for me. Yeah. Low win rate, high payoff. Yeah.

Christian, I'd like to ask you just a couple, I guess, more general questions about you as a trader. Even at your level, What challenges do you still deal with on a daily basis? I've gotten a rid of a lot of uh challenges over the years, uh but the things I still struggle with are I would say over trading um Because I do I'm a little bit addicted to trading, um I'm not gonna lie. I I do I do like I I do like to trade even when I know I shouldn't. Uh so that does take that

Um, you know that that's something that takes a chunk of my returns every year. And also patience uh is something like I I'm Like I know I should use the ten and the twenty day moving averages um as my trailing stops. So many times when a stock just goes straight up. and especially it's been an issue the past 12 months or so or 11 months since we've had this big big great bull market after the covid sell-off

Um like the moves are insane. Like everything is supercharged versus earlier years versus you know the eight previous years I had been trading before that or nine. Um and it's kind of been hard to adapt to those like everything just keeps going up and up and what I do is I just you know I'm like oh shit fuck it this stock is up so much it it can't go higher. Uh like for example I had this trade in NVAC. Which is one of these vaccine stocks.

I i it went up uh I think it doubled or so in a in two weeks. And I'm like, this it's not gonna go higher. So I just sold the position. It got it it it started getting a bit stretched from the ten day moving averages average, which I was uh intending to use as my trailing stop. And uh at first the stocks w actually went lower after I sold it. And uh a few weeks later it doubled again.

And I I was like, Okay, um, yeah, like overriding these like I try to override these moving averages, trailing stocks stops, like outsmart them, but I just can't do it. Like like uh but no, I I wish I was a robot and just followed the method one hundred percent. I just can't. Uh my entries are so good, like I'm so good at the entries, but my exits are just so bad. I just can't follow my own rules. And it's it's costing me money past you know, this great ma bull market we've had.

It's just yeah. Uh that's yeah, it's kind of annoying, but The issue is I guess sometimes it it pays off to override those rules and then sometimes not so much. Yeah, but most of the time it doesn't pay to override those rules. Um I I would say uh again I don't have any exact data, but just intuitively, three quarters of the time it doesn't pay. So, the logical thing to do would be to not override my own cell rules, but I still keep doing it.

Uh and my the people in my chat they kinda make it fun of me because they know like, hey, Christian's just sold because uh he thought it was overextended. Let's buy it. It's probably gonna double again. You know, so So those are my two biggest struggles. Uh over overriding my cell rules and over trading. I never like I know a lot of people have problems with taking taking their losses, like they

they have very hard time just getting out when they get stopped out. They they they just hope it comes back. Uh that's something that's an issue I never really had. I only remember a few times in my career. And I I got really burnt a few times and after that really I've never had an issue taking taking losses. And I know that's a big issue a lot of people have and people also write to me on Twitter and ask me about it all the time. Those are my my struggles still, those two.

In what ways has your attitude to risk changed as your buying power has, you know, obviously massively increased over the the last few years? Yeah, so something I have done really like I I I've done successfully. is I've managed to scale my trading up massively. Like if I double my account. my risk and my size will double also. It's there's a lag there, but uh it's usually a few months, but it will eventually double too. So I'm always bringing my my my um my uh risk and my size up.

In relative, it's the in relative terms and percentage terms, it all stays the same, the position sizes and the percentage risk relative relation to the account. Um, but I know a lot of people they just take money out of their accounts all the time to put it away in other stuff. Uh but I've never done that. I've always I only take out money when I really have to, like to pay living expenses or to pay taxes.

And other than that, I just use the the the the account to grow my account uh all the time. And I also I'm and I should mention I use margin quite a bit. Um and I only I only use it when things are going well, when I deserve to use margin. I think margin is something you have to deserve. It's not a privilege.

Uh just because it's there doesn't mean you should use it. Uh unfortunately a lot of people do use it and they use it the wrong way. They start using margin when things are not they may use margin when things are not going well. Uh but that's not how you do it. You have to uh gain some ground, let's say every year. Uh it but no matter where you reset this, but let's say in the beginning of the year, if if you if you if you do if you do well, that's when you start

using some margin. Uh because if things are going well you should you should push those periods. And then there are periods you shouldn't uh uh trade a margin at all, and maybe you shouldn't even be trading at all. So this uh taking it's it's all uh very relative this um uh risk. approach I have Oh my attitude to risk. Yeah. Mm, I think it has matured. Um I was bit more reckless in the beginning, like uh like I said before, I went all in. Um on old stocks because I didn't know better.

Um but that was also when I have a much I had a much smaller account. Like I wouldn't be able to trade. You I mean, if you have a small account and want to do swing trading, obviously you can't be holding fifteen, twenty positions like I do. Um it's maybe smarter to hold fewer positions. Um but again, like position sizing, I realized yeah, especially when you kind of hold things overnight, you can't have everything in

two or three stocks, you gotta diversify a bit more because I've seen too many stocks up and down fifty percent and it it's just not worth it. Uh so And also the margin related things. When I first got a margin account, uh in the beginning I traded with Swedish brokers, the US markets with Swedish brokers. There was no margin there. Then I opened US account.

And there then suddenly I could use margin. I really didn't know how to handle that, like, oh my God, I'm a insane amount of buying power. Let's use it. Um, but I got burned a few dimes and you know, I kinda matured and I realized like you kinda can trade that way. You kinda you kinda have to disserve the risk. Um, and also even if you're not using any leverage or margin in your trading.

Which is fine. Uh you can have incredible returns, never using any type of leverage. I just like to, you know, spice it up a little bit when things are going well. Um, because you know, again I studied from history, I know that the bull runs they can last for a long, long time. And you you wanna you really want to capitalize it if you would if you're a swing trader.

Because as swing trader you you know you gotta sit th mostly in cash for longs long time some periods too. So you you gotta make the fun more fun while while it lasts.

Last question for you. Why do you think your level of trading success is so rare? Obviously everyone sets out with the the ultimate dream of uh making as much money as you have from the markets, but very few are able to achieve it. Um and you know, from what you've described here and your your strategy it all sounds Fairly simple. You know, not to discredit h any of the the hard work you've put in, but you know, why do you think so few make it to the big time?

I'm glad you I'm actually very glad you said it that it always it's very simple because it it is. I'm always trying to take things away. I I think there's an inverse correlation between amount of indicators and profitability, for example. Um, I think people focus a lot on the wrong things. Uh, instead of they they look at a lot of indicators instead of focusing on a price and what's really, really moving a stock and w how the stock is moving.

Like I really focus on the it's just purely a price a lot and try to listen to what the market, what the stocks are trying to tell me. Uh a lot of people, uh, they just focus on a lot on other people's opinions. They they may may be watching C N B C and they, you know, there's maybe some bear porn going on or you know, some uh hedge fund managers that's panicking on C N P C and you know that the that's gonna affect you, right?

And what what and that's gonna affect your trading too, like oh wow, the the professionals are really scared. Maybe I should be too scared too, and vice versa. And I I I think you if you can tune all of it out, everyone's opinions out, like even even the billionaires, the hedge fund managers.

What I realized over the years they're like they ha they are wrong a lot too, but they have the sa they use they they do it the same way like I do. When they wrong they lose small and when they're right they win big. So I really can't pay attention to all any of opinions. Just focus on what the market is doing, focus on what the leading stocks are doing. Or whatever method you trade, like just focus on

How is that method working? Is it working well or is it not working at all? Are there setups? Are there no setups? That's really what you should pay attention to. That's that's one big part I see a lot of even successful traders struggle with. They these these other opinions Do snuck in instead of just listening purely on the market. Uh, and also I think also just purely education.

Uh, I think a lot of people, even some pretty decent successful traders, I think they would do even better if they really went back and looked at thousands of examples of the w of that of that setup they trade or the setups they trade. and really nail down all the variations of those and look at also maybe the overall market.

Like what was the overall market doing when there were a lot of setups and when there when the when that setup worked really well, versus what was the market doing when there weren't any setups and the setups weren't working any well? I think That that's gonna improve your edge by by significant margin looking at all these variations.

Um and then there's also the the the the leverage part. Uh you can either hurt yourself or you can supercharge your returns uh by using leverage, but you gotta do it the right way. Um Uh and also scaling your trading. That's also something. Like I've seen there's a I know I know a lot of traders that say pretty much.

uh trade the same size they've been trading for ten years. Uh they trade the same setup, like they mastered it r s their setup, they really know what they're doing, but they haven't been able to scale their trading. And that's also a big thing that I think sets me apart from I see a lot a lot of traders too. And that's how we really can make a return, especially in the cr crazy bull market we've had in the past year.

like i it's gonna make a difference of you making hundred percent versus making nine hundred percent. you know, scaling it up as the account cr as your account grows. Um it's not gonna happen instantly like if you double your account uh let's say in a month. Uh I know that's a uh maybe no that's unrealistic, maybe. Uh even though you can do it, uh especially if you're a day trader and use um

like a margin. Um but you know let's say you double your account in a certain time frame like eventually your your size should double too your size and your risk. And I th I see a lot of people too they just they they can't they can't like They can't push it. Like obviously every time you size it up and you take that first big loss after you sized your trading up, it all it hurts.

But you also you always have to think in percentage terms. Like I always cringe when people also another reason to never pay attention to any type of financial media, like I always cringe. when they when they talk about points. Oh the Dow is up to t thousand points. It's such a useless thing to say.

It doesn't really, you know, there's no context at all. Like why don't you just say percent? Because 1% is always 1%, no matter if what what if the DAO is at 5000 or at 50,000, right? But a thousand points, like A thousand points meant a very different thing five years ago versus today. Um so always think of in your trading too in percentage terms, like think about percentage risk, like oh, I'm gonna take a percentage return.

Oh sorry, a risk on this trade. And the and since my accounts have grown a lot that percentage risk is gonna be higher than it was say a few weeks ago. But also always think in percentages. I think that's a very useful exercise uh that may take your trading to another level instead of maybe thinking about points. Um I it just, you know, i instead of thinking about like points or in in dollar terms, like absolute dollar terms, uh like let's say you risk uh thousand bucks.

usually on your trades, but your accounts have doubled And you're scared to take And you're sc scared to even risk fifteen hundred bucks, but actually in percentage terms, if your accounts have doubled, you should be risking two thousand bucks. So maybe get used to that fifteen hundred bucks risk first and then you push it to that two thousand bucks risk, uh just as an example. Uh so those are the uh three or four things I think that

uh may improve most traders' uh returns. Um the the you know three, four concepts that really really help. Yeah, very wise. I love that. Actually, one more question or lied. I promise this is the last one.

Since you've seen this type of success that you've had in trading, how has your life changed? Not much really. Um like I used to like in my earlier years, like between twenty thirteen when I started my Evernote project, or twenty fourteen, uh started just fo um you know, s saving articles. Like I studied um Like I studied everything trading related. I read a lot of books, I read a lot of articles, I'd studied a lot of these successful traders like Dan Sanger.

Like I studied everything he had written, these all his newsletters back to the nineties. I read through them, I looked at the patterns he was looking for. So I spent a lot of time on um on especially on the weekends. uh like studying. Like I I try to absorb everything. I looked at every single angle, every single method. I s I don't know how many thousands, probably ten thousand hours plus that I've spent.

uh just doing studying um over the years and uh now I feel like I I I I I don't do that m as much anymore because there's just not much new under it's the same patterns, it's the same concepts and I feel like I have a pretty good grasp grasp of these things and I don't have to spend uh um this mu as much time doing like just studying. Um like I do it uh but not as much. So um you asked me uh um

uh when we started this call what I did uh yesterday since yesterday was a day off in the markets and I spent the whole day playing computer games. That's uh how my life has changed. I went from studying everything market related to uh doing things that I enjoy doing on my days off. Okay, well that's a pretty simple answer. Yeah. More free time on the weekends and uh more time for video games. Absolutely. More social life and more more uh time spending on hobbies. Okay. Okay.

Well, Christian, it's been an absolute pleasure speaking with you and I greatly appreciate your time. For anyone who's listening who might want to uh find out more about yourself, uh, where's the best place to go? You know, Twitter, et cetera?

Yeah, you can uh pretty much go to any of my social media but Twitter. Um there's also a link in the in in the in my bio where you get to my blog and you can read up on uh you know there's a you know blog post uh o about me and uh my methods, my setups and also my twitch stream. um where I uh stream uh every market day. I should usually stream the first hour and a half or so. You can see me trade leav uh real time. Uh I talk about uh the setups, people can ask me questions. Um and uh yeah.

Those two, Twitter and Twitter. Okay. And what's the link for your blog? Because I think for anyone who's, you know, listened this far through the podcast, it would probably be a good idea for them to actually uh put some visuals to, you know, some of the things we've been speaking about here and and those are definitely on your blog. Uh what's the link? Ja, det är chartsandstories.com

Chartsandstories.com. Okay. And your Twitter handle is Uh at the Colomaggy, Q U L L A M A G G I E. And that's also the handle, uh my Twitch handle and my YouTube handle. Okay, excellent. Uh and folks listening, those links can also be found at chatwithraders.com slash two one two, as this is episode two hundred and twelve. Christian, once again, very much appreciate it. Thanks a lot for doing the podcast. Let's chat soon.

Thank you very much. Uh I'm very grateful uh that you asked me to be here and uh very happy. Thank you so much, Aaron. My pleasure. You've reached the end of this But rest assured there are a lot of people. Insight and soon. if you'd leave a rating. That with traders.