182: Nico, @InefficientMrkt – An Eight Year Overnight Success Story: Three Years Later

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Welcome everybody. This is episode 182 of Chat with Traders. Joining me is returning guest Nico, who goes by the handle of at inefficient MRKT on Twitter. Nico is an intraday equities trader and has been for about 12 years now. His area of expertise lies in low-float microcap stocks, now exclusively playing the short side of overextended moves.

Nico and I spoke almost exactly three years ago on episode 96, which was memorably titled An Eight Year Overnight Success Story. Now picking up where we left off, we discuss what has been happening as of late. The most notable development being after many years trading retail, Nico has gone into proprietary trading with seven points capital. Going one step further, he has also established and heads up the firm's San Diego office.

That's the first half of this episode. During the second half, I asked Nico to share how he's evolved as a trader in recent years. More specifically, what has changed, what remains the same, and what's been fine-tuned. As always, links to episodes mentioned during this chat can be found in the show notes at chatwithraders.com slash one eight two.

And by the way, as it has relevance to this episode, I have a brilliant interview with Mike Manjeri, one of the managing partners of Seven Points Capital, coming soon too. Stay tuned for when it drops. Anyway, Nico's a great dude and it was really great to catch up with him hearing about his continued progression. So I hope you'll enjoy this one. Here we go.

Anyway, enough of that. How was uh how was your trading day? It was good. It's been nice. The micros have been moving a lot more active lately, so It's been uh opportunities have been abound, which is really nice. I almost resigned myself to I think I need to take a serious look and learn how to trade.

big caps better or at all. Um, just because it was so dead for a while in the micro world. It was like feasts or famine, you know? Uh SES came out of nowhere, um Was that last Friday or the Friday before two Fridays ago, I think? And since then there's been opportunities every day, which has just been great. Really nice. Yeah, I saw a few people talking about that one. What what was the story behind SES?

I don't even know. Um, I mean from I was I wasn't even trading that day. I took that day off. I was traveling or I was in no, I was already in Vegas for um for traders for a cause and I I wasn't even I wasn't even trying to trade. Oh, that's right. Yeah. We flew in on Thursday and then the next day was we were just hanging out on Friday and just crazy, crazy runner. Um a few guys from the firm were trading it.

Um, with hard stops fortunately. And when it just started squeezing and turned into monster mode, it was just uh you know, incredibly thin and I I don't know what the state was if it was easy to borrow and all the usual houses across the street, but Um it sure acted that way with a lot of shorts stuck. I mean that thing went to the moon in after hours, it seemed like. I think it went to nine twenty seven. Uh it's just just wild, wild runner. That's twenty seven dollars.

Uh no, nine dollars and twenty seven cents I think. Oh, okay. And and where did it start before things kinda heated up? Um, let's see. Got my charts in front of me. Pretty low, right? So that was day one. So day one, um, so the Thursday before it closed at a dollar eighty and then Friday it opened at three dollars and thirty-seven cents. It closed at five twenty-five.

the regular session, but I think it ripped all the way to nine twenty seven, nine dollars and twenty seven cents in after hours, which just shorts were just dead. And then um you got the blow off day two candle on Monday. where it opened at ten fifteen and it had a high at twenty six dollars and ten cents.

And we were all speculating in Vegas and we were all together that this is, you know, feast or famine. This is exactly what uh we were used to famine in the micro in the micros for the all the opportunities. There's just nothing. It's just n nothing was amounting to to much at all and then

Right out of left field when none of us were looking for it. We're all just hanging out in Vegas, man. SES came with a vengeance and just sparked the entire micro market again, brought it back to life. Man, that is such a wild mode. You never see that sort of thing on ASX stocks. No. Well, you see you see some pretty crazy things, but uh nothing to that extent. Like that's that's next level. I'm surprised you don't have people

Taking advantage of shorts that are stuck or cornering a market. I mean, there's there's only so many ingredients you need to generate. Or create a tsunami of a move. Yeah. It's pretty it's not too complex. So I'm kinda surprised you don't I mean, I'm not familiar with the the a the earmark your your stock exchange, but I guess I just assumed that there's crazy things happening in markets all over the world. Yeah, I don't know. Something, um, within a couple of days, like that's

That's uh that's something else. Pretty pretty intense, no doubt. Uh I was also gonna ask you, how was your Vegas trip? Oh, it was great. It was great, it was really nice. Got to revisit with uh Cats and and guys from the firm from seven points, my entire San Diego team went.

And they got to meet meet cats, meet Mike and and some other traders from the firm who who flew in and uh it was just really nice to hang out and and we all have trading on the mind, but it's nice to relax and enjoy each other's company and have a good time in Vegas also. Uh good stuff, man. And how long have you been with the firm now?'Cause this is something we're gonna get into. Sure. So how long have you been with with Seven Points now? So officially I think I started last April.

Once I finally got past all the licensing and s you know, studying and taking the exams and and all that stuff. Okay. Okay. Cool. Let's let's get into this. So Last time we spoke, uh which was uh something like three years ago, you were a retail trader. Uh you were just trading your own account. You're trading for yourself, from home. Uh today you're a proprietary trader uh and you're with seven points capital.

What sparked the the move to go from retail to prop? I guess it's a little short story that got me thinking, got me interested, but um when I was a retail trader I never thought I'd ever want to trade someone else's money. You know, why would I ever wanna lose someone else's money other than my own? It's just never It didn't make much sense to me. But last October, a year ago, uh in Vegas I took my wife.

And she was getting into trading. So she was really excited to go to all the talks and stuff at at Traders for a Cause.

um and be you know meet a bunch of other traders and that kind of thing. And when we went, I I Katz and I had been going a little bit back and forth over Twitter and when we got to meet in Vegas last year and we kinda got a a developing friendship going on and He brought a bunch of members from the firm, bunch of traders and got to meet'em all and eventually my wife pul you know, was like, Hey, you notice everyone from seven points was just

Really nice, like just like no ego and just like a pleasure to be around and just really kind. And I was like, Yeah, you're right. You know, I wasn't really focused on that, but I think you're right. And they just seem like really good people. So Um our friendship.

Mike Katz and my friendship continued a bit. I guess if if you want to rewind a little bit, uh, to the point where everyone was talking about this Katz guy on Twitter and I I was like, I don't know who this guy is. What who who is this person? Why why is what's all the buzz about this guy? And I had a couple of friends that were like, you don't know who Mike Katz is? Listen to his child trader. So I listened to it. And I went, Oh man, that guy sounds really good. So

Fast forward a little bit, I got to meet him in Vegas and uh we just had a developing friendship. We got along really well and The four of us he brought his wife and I brought mine one one night we had dinner and we were just getting along and he was like uh Yeah I was like if you

Ever been to San Diego? And he said no and I was like, Well you should come, you know, San Diego's San Diego's great and he was like, Have you ever been to New York? and I was like, No, never and he was like, Well you should come and I was like, Well, if I'm ever there I'll I'll uh I'll stop by Well as luck had it, um I was there a few months later and I stopped by the firm to take a visit, pop in for a visit and

As soon as I walked in, I just never seen anything like it before. And I was like a kid in a candy store. I mean one giant room with all these traders and all these computers and all these monitors and a squawk box and you could just feel the energy of the traders. I mean, this is unlike anything I'd ever experienced as a retail trader. This was like Some really exciting next level thing for me. You know, I was starting to get the gears moving in my head and I was like, Wow, you know.

What's that like? That's gotta be a an amazing thing to sit in a room with physically sit physically in a room with other other traders and be able to connect with them and be there for them and support them and they're supporting you. I mean, you can't imagine every trader is having a great day every day when they trade together. You're gonna get some guys that aren't having good days and some guys that are. Um, so I was just kind of thinking about it all and we went to lunch.

And Mike invited someone who I I never met before and his name's um Mike Mangiri. Turns out he's he's the other partner for the firm. And we just had a good lunch and we were just getting to know each other more and conversations just grew and the opportunity arose and

It came to a point where I traded when we did our first call, Aaron, I think you said almost three years ago. I w I traded alone for many, many, many years. And I think that was a large mm, reason why it took me so long to Reach consistent profitability. consistency and

Once I started hanging out on Twitter, you know, everything from the last call that we did three years ago, you know, once I started getting social about it, I started connecting with other traders on the internet and all that kind of thing. I was able to compare myself and figure out, you know, what are they doing? I want to, you know, I can do that. Why not? That kind of thing. And I don't know, man. Like, it just. It was just something that I had to I had to run with it. I had to

I had to to find out. It was like This has to be some next level thing. You know, it's one thing to be in a bunch of chat rooms on the internet with and you're surrounding yourself, connecting with other traders over the internet. But being in a room with other traders, that's a whole nother dynamic, man. That's like That's a game changer. That's like that that's that could that's gotta be extremely valuable. And it is. I'm you know, we're experiencing it um here in the San Diego office, but

It it's it's very different than trading alone in your head. It's it's incredibly different.

It's interesting that, you know, this wasn't something that you intentionally went out looking for, you know, a firm that you could join. It was just something that kind of happened uh somewhat naturally. So I think that was quite interesting. Yeah. And I'll I'll add a little bit to that. You know, Katz is someone who when the opportunity's there, this you know, the thesis is there, the setup's right. You know, if it he's looking to put some size on a trade. And

There's I've met other traders last year from the firm. Um Riley, who runs the Toronto office, young kid. And and Stan, you've had Stan on um Stan did a a c uh call, an interview with you on Chat With Traders. And I mean these are guys that You know, once I got to know I got to meet them last year and I got to know more about their them and how they trade, you know, I started realizing some of the like the volume that Stan was trading. I mean, that's stuff that

I d I don't know anyone. I'm not sure I know anyone who trades retail that trades that kind of volume. Uh it it it's just so it it was can you know, I was putting myself in a situation where Yeah, let's have an office, get some guys in here. We can all benefit from each other being in the same room trading together. And it's also getting closer to traders in the firm that, you know, I w

I I've been trading for I think twelve years now and you know I wanna I'm not done growing and learning. I'm I'm not satisfied and it's being you know surrounding yourself with people that are Kicking some ass and and Yeah, so you know. Let me jump in then, Nico, because that's an interesting point you bring up.

Um, you know, you said you've met all the guys from the firm prior to to starting and they were all really nice and you clicked really well. Um, but beyond that And and you also sort of made the point that it wasn't something you were intentionally seeking out was to join a firm.

When the opportunity started to come about, did you see it as something that could help you grow and sort of um push your development as a trader even further? Um, like was there anything specific which Uh you know, made it clear to you that there could be an opportunity here for you to to level up. I I think that might have been the main purpose for me jumping into the the prop world. You know, I was I was I was really comfortable trading my retail accounts. I had no

I was doing fine. When you're alone in your he I don't know how to describe it. You hit you hit certain plateaus. And absolutely. You know, you go from making a thousand bucks a day to two thousand bucks a day, three thousand bucks a day. You hit stretches, you're making four thousand bucks a day. When you're trying to do that on a daily basis, it becomes increasingly apparent to you when you're trying to size up. in in the right environment, in the right trades.

That what your limitations are. The market will will smack you right in the face and let you know. It it's like a giant mirror. And so having those experiencing those limitations just countless times. you know, and always tr hungry for that next level. You know, I was like, wow, you know, here's some guys at this firm. They're trading obscene amounts of volume.

I mean highly consistent. I mean, this is some stone cold killers. Like, I wanna be around I wanna connect with these guys. I wanna trade with these guys. I wanna see what this is about. So it definitely was a driving force for me to jump in there and Give it a shot, you know, what do I have to lose? Yeah. And when you're around that sort of thing and you see that consistently, you know, day after day, it starts to normalize.

uh those kind of numbers. You know what I mean? You kind of accept that as the new normal and it doesn't become uh it sort of seems more in reach for you, I guess, in many ways. I think so, but y you highlight a great point about trading, I mean The dollars, they're just digits on a screen. And you you start you start putting more size on and the you start adding a zero here and there. And I mean, it just turns into crazy money and

You know, my wife will make fun of me because we'll go out to dinner and I'll quibble with a waitress because she's charging me for a drink I never ordered and never drank. You know, I'm like, hey, I didn't pay for this five dollar drink. Can you take it off my bill? She'll laugh at me'cause she's like You'll quibble over five dollars, she's like, But I'll watch you lose like, you know, two or three grand on a bad trade.

And not even blink an eye. It's different. It's different. It's the principle, right? Yeah. I mean that's the principle, but it's also the The the point of view. I mean, dollars just in the real world are just so different than dollars in the market to me. I think it's that way for a lot of traders too.

Yeah. Yeah. I think so. So once you did start trading with the firm, you know, this is your first time as a prop trader now. What were some of the biggest adjustments? Like what were some of the things you um uh maybe unexpected in some ways. What were the things that you had to get used to? So I can't recall whether I started exclusively using hard stops before I came to seven points or just as I or once I got to seven points, but using hard stops. Coupled with having a daily lockout.

Basically a collar around your neck that had me trading a lot differently than what I was used to as a retail trader. Extremely different. I could be sloppy as a retail trader and let risk get away from me and Maybe I'd go down the more than I wanted to, but then maybe I'd make it all back in in a little bit more. You know, you could just you g I got rewarded for trading sloppy for so long.

Um, not all the time. I'm just saying y you know, everyone has their moments, right? Yeah. But when I got to seven points, you know, it's different. It's very different trading someone else's money, the firm capital. It's not

It's not like trading your money. My own money. It's it's nowhere close to it. Um I think having a good trading process gets you there. I mean, that's what it's all about, is like If you have a good trading process uh, you know, when you're trading your own money, you join a join a firm and once you've acclimate to

trading firm capital, you know, your process is gonna rise above and you're gonna you're gonna it'll be fine. It it'll be no different. But it takes some adjustment. It's it's definitely a lot different. I I I was I definitely underestimated what I thought it'd be like to trade someone else's money. Because it's it's a play on the emotions. It's for some people, maybe they want to take on more risk because it's someone else's money. And for some other people,

Maybe they want to take on less risk than their own money when they're trading someone else's money because they would don't want to lose someone else's money. But I knew I wanted to be responsible and I knew for many, many years that I should probably start using hard stops.

to keep my risk in check'cause, you know, as we all know as traders, you can trade sloppy uh you know, fifty times and you can get away with it forty eight or forty nine times, but it's that one time that the market won't let you get away with it and you'll just

It's just bad. Just disaster, you know? Yeah. I like how you point out that it took some adjusting for you to uh get comfortable with trading someone else's money.'Cause often you hear people make like off the cuff comments about how, oh, they're trading someone else's money, it doesn't matter if they lose but I think that some people perhaps struggle with that more than they do uh trading their own money. You know, not everyone. Everyone's obviously different, but there are some people who

are gonna find it easier to trade with their own money and lose their own money as opposed to someone else's and then some people be completely the opposite. So it's not like it's it's the same across the board. I was a little in the former camp. It for me I was thinking I wouldn't care to risk someone else's money, but I ended up caring way more than I thought I would. Well, especially because you've done it for so long as well. Like you've been trading like

at home for what, like ten years probably, ten, eleven years before you came over to the firm. So that's just something you it was really ingrained in you. I mean, when I w when I was busy losing my money as a retail trader trader, I didn't have anyone You know, looking over my shoulder, being like, Hey, or watching what I'm doing and

So yeah, you know, you you don't you don't wanna come off like you're a cowboy to the firm, or at least I don't. You know, I wanna come off like I know you know, I know how to trade and focused on risk and I'm focused on taking losses when I should. You know, I don't want any disasters like I used to do when I was a retail trader. And having hard stops is really the simplest solution to doing that. You know, you don't need to lose. thirty thousand dollars on something like PTI.

It I mean, you just you don't need to be losing money like that. It's just it's pointless. It's like, why let your risk get so out of control just because You know, you think you're gonna be right in the end and you wanna see what happens in the trade. It's just a disaster waiting to happen. And that that's the issue. It's like you'll get away with it forty eight, forty nine times out of fifty.

But I don't know what the status or ninety nine times out of a hundred, whatever it is, but it's that one time out of fifty or one time out of hundred hundred. That'll just take you to the cleaners and send you down into the pits of despair in your mental state and then you gotta crawl out of that one mental capital wise as a d in addition to whatever you lost, you know, trading capital wise.

So I think anyways, long answer to your question. Yeah, having hard stops, big adjustment for me in my style of trading. And also the daily lockout, which is a risk a risk system of, you know, once every trader's different, every trader's you know, assigned a different amount of buying power from the firm. They've got a different daily lockout number. And once you hit that once you're down that much uh net on the day, realized and unrealized, you get a pop up on your platform that just says, eh

You're done. You you messed up. Always always another day to come back and fight tomorrow. One of the other things I wanted to ask you around this is

You'd been so used to trading retail. Once you started trading prop, were there any other greater advantages or little tricks which became available to you which gave you a greater edge, a greater advantage. You know, those things could be Uh, you know, I know routes are a big thing. Like where you're routing your orders. Um, maybe there are some options which are available to you now which weren't when you were retail. Um I've I've never in all the years that I've been trading.

When I got to seven points and I on the first day And I went and clicked the drop down of all to see all the choices of where I could route my orders. I've never seen so many choices in my life of tra in my career as a trader. So definitely a lot of options, you know, a lot of edge to be had in where you send your orders. in in that kind of thing. I'm still learning a lot. Um I still kind of have a simple mind.

you know, coming from retail of when I'm providing I want to use this route and when I'm taking I want to use this other route. But there's a lot of advantages to that these traders and me included now have access to. inverse routes and I mean I'm I'm learning a lot from Stan. You know, Stan's really

a really good resource for this kind of stuff. And I think he even touched on it or or went into some detail on it in his call with you. Um but, you know, when I was for example, when I was a retail trader I knew of inverse routes, but I never understood why you know why would anyone why would anyone let me take their liquidity And I could collect a rebate. I I never understood it. Uh the stuff like that, little questions like that, little things I've I've noticed over the years and and now I'm

Um getting a little bit savvy to it, but I still have a lot to learn. Okay. Are there any other advantages which have just sort of come to the top of your mind? Being with a firm? Yeah, like uh maybe the commissions as well or The expenses are are a great point. Um Seven Points doesn't charge any commissions. So zero commissions.

And all the rebates are passed through and fees E CN fees, et cetera, are passed through. So if you You know, you're sitting on the book all the time and you can make money on rebates and um It's really nice to not have to pay commissions. And I think that's a formula. By the way, you take someone like Stan who might trade half a million or a million shares in a day on some days, easy. I mean y good luck doing that when you're retail. That doesn't

That's gonna get really expensive really quickly. So there's there's some edge to be had in in pushing some volume like that, you know, when you're not paying commissions and stuff like that. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Are you ready to get serious about trading? Then join Tasty Trade, Investopedia's best platform for options trading in twenty twenty six.

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So the next part I guess would be talking about how you've set up uh this office in San Diego, which I think is really awesome uh and I'd love to hear a bit more about it. Yeah, just tell me a little bit about what you've set up there, how that sort of came about. Yeah, sure. So uh we launched on September three. What led up to that was, you know, cat. had a vision of having an office out on the West Coast. And the more we talked about it, the more it just seemed like it it could it could work.

And and we just both jumped into it. And we uh we launched on September three. I mean, before that we had to find um some office space. So I went around the city looking for some office space. The We Works and All those other kinds of places. And um we settled on a on a great spot here. We're on we're in UTC, just on the outskirts of La Jolla, uh right by UC San Diego. And it's a great spot.

It's a comfy room. It's intimate. It's not it's not the biggest not the biggest room. And we got four desks in here and had uh opened up you know for applications and had A tremendous response. I I never thought that that many people I just didn't know that many people were interested or that many people would. want to s sit in a room to get you know, together and I just didn't know. I also didn't have a gauge for how many traders are there actually in San Diego.

Uh or you know, in Southern California. You know, it's tough out here. We're we're West Coast, so we're on we're on California time. So You know, if you're if you're planning your trading day, you know, market opens at six thirty local time, so you gotta be you gotta be up and at them in the in the four AMs, you know, four thirty or something, you know, at least give yourself a good hour, hour and a half, if not two hours of prep.

You know, plan your day, see what you're you're you know, you're gonna attack, all that kind of stuff. But um I was delighted. I couldn't believe how Tremendous amount more applications than I ever th ever could have dreamed of. So it was really nice. Got to got to I did a deep study. Um Kat's made it clear to me. It's it's my office. He he'll support me and guide me as much help as I want, but

I get to decide, you know, who's gonna sit in a room with me all day. And so having that many applicants it was just wonderful'cause Really got a all spectrums, you know. All spectrums. I had guys that applying that saying they never placed a trade before to guys applying that were very, very, very, very profitable.

But it didn't just come down to prof profitability, you know, it's also a a personality thing. It's gotta be the right fit. And I knew that coming into it because You know, you could pick the s s most badass superstar trader there is, but

If he's got a ton of ego or she's got a ton of ego, you gotta ask yourself, is that someone I wanna be sitting in a room with all day? Probably not, at least not for me. So there is a there is definitely an interview process and You know, email back with some questions.

So there's you and and three others? That's right. Currently. Okay. What was probably most challenging in in setting this up? Like obviously it's something you've not done before. Yeah, what was most difficult about getting it set up? Maybe even not even just the setup, but maybe on a day to day, like is there anything which has sort of been a little bit challenging about this this whole thing? I mean don't don't feel like you've got to make something up. I don't it's it's

basically been a breeze. I'll tell you what has been was the most challenging was getting the licenses to do this, you know, to run an office and and all that stuff, the the Series 57 to to be a licensed trader, no longer retail, a professional trader so that you could trade firm capital. And then um I took it one step further with the series twenty four license to have m my own office and and so I could run the office, that kind of thing. Um

That studying for those licenses and I mean that was probably the the biggest challenge, but and that's because the the firm has already done this before. This isn't the first, you know, satellite office Uh seven points has has launched. They've got Greg in in New Jersey, Stan in Fort Lauderdale, Riley in Toronto in Um we just launched San Diego just uh early September. So it's not their first rodeo. They had a lot of They they done all this stuff before, so any challenges were easily

Easily mitigated. They already knew everything to do. Now, the traders you have in the room or in the office there with you, uh, what's their kind of experience level like? The three guys, we've got two guys that are kinda similar. Um, one's definitely heavily trading micro in the micros like me. Um The other one another one is also but also trading bigger names, uh, you know, big board names, bigger market names. And then there's another guy who's who's trading uh

I'd say almost exclusively large caps only. So you gotta you gotta really nice mix and a really nice blend and you know, each throughout the day we're all you know, sometimes we're Some of us are trading in our heads. Like I'll still catch myself where I'm I'm trading. And even though I got three guys right next to me. you know, I'm extremely silent and I'm I'm just really quiet and I'm kind of in my head. And I have to catch myself in those moments to try and pull myself out of my head and

realize hey, I got like I got a huge edge over like every other retail trader out there right now. I got it I got a team of guys right next to me. Like, you know, what are they thinking about what I'm seeing or what do they think about this trade or Or, you know, do they think a short is a long and am I nuts or Or what?

Yeah, it's probably nice that you've got bit of a mix in there, like you're not all doing the exact same thing. Like sure you're all trading equities, but you'd focus on slightly different uh areas in that equity market. Definitely. I I think that's it that was

You know, it almost seemed like I did it on purpose. I wish I would have, but it just I went for personalities over You know when you put a g uh you know four traders in a s in a in a in a room together, there's th that's that's a recipe for some conflict, I feel like, you know? Uh if depending on the trace. So I was very selective. I wanted to pick it had to be the right guys. It just had to be the right fit. And I'm I've never I couldn't be happier. These guys are

These guys are are great. They're doing well. And they're a pleasure to be around. And I'm just really enjoying it. And I assume they are too. Nice. Nice. That's really cool, man. I'm I'm happy for you.

What's it like on a a day to day there? Like are there do you have some sort of processes or routines in place? Like is there a a pre market meeting? Um, if so, what sort of things do you discuss during them? Is there an after hours like sort of reflection on the day? Um could talk a little bit about that.

Sure. So in the mornings, I'd say our mornings are pretty uniform. We're all, you know, individually at least going out there and sifting through what's available and seeing what, you know, between all the headlines and between all the gappers and you know, the different size markets. Um, you know, I think each one of us is basically putting together our own game plan of what we're looking to do on market open.

Two of the guys really seem to like trading, you know, in pre market, so they'll they'll start pretty early. Uh the guys get in at like five AM our time, which is eight AM New York time. So these guys are waking up, you know, at like four thirty in the morning or a little bit earlier to get into the office by five.

Uh, I roll in a little late. I'm in at like five thirty in the morning. Um kind of the lazier one, but I love how five thirty I am is light. Well, yeah. I I'd go in earlier. It's just having a family at home. I'm Staying up later than you know I I just need to stay up late to do family stuff and do all that stuff. So uh I roll in like thirty minutes later. But um yeah, every morning we're basically putting our plans together and

Sometimes these plans overlap and we're looking for um you know to see what we see. Like what do you think of this PR? You know, I read it, it sounds like Sounds like shit to me. Sounds like a bunch of nothing. Or, you know, sounds like it might have merit. Or, you know, hey, did you check out their balance sheet or did you see that uh that recent shelf or you know, four two four filing? You know, we're just looking for

We're just kinda sometimes alone, sometimes hunting together, forming our plans in the morning. Um and like I said, sometimes those plans overlap, sometimes they don't. And you asked about like end of day. We're experimenting right now with like a trade review where we're at the end of the day, or maybe sometimes during lull when the market gets slow, we are

sharing our trades. You know, uh someone will go first and we'll just share our chart executions and and share our trades of what we were thinking. Just kind of like, you know, put yourself out there and totally derobe and just open yourself, you know, to honesty, you know, from fresh perspective, maybe from other traders that other guys that were in the same trades you were in or trading the same name you were in, or just a fresh perspective from someone that wasn't even in the trade.

And had no had no skin in that name. Um and and just kind of get some feedback from them on what they thought of your trades and That can be a very a very lucrative thing to do. But it's tough. It's, you know, it's tough because we we sometimes we mess up. We do stupid things. So it's putting yourself out there and sharing, you know, the great, the good, the bad and the ugly. And just uh

Seeing what people think. You know, it's just I think the key of it all is I'll kind of take it back to the hiring process, even though I was answering a different one of your questions, but I really wanted to hire some guys that were were hungry. That we're hustlers, that we're happy, individuals, you know, people I want to be around. And these are guys that are growth-minded that They're consistent already or they're almost consistent, that kind of thing. And let's get

this going further. Let's grow together. Let's scale this up. You know what I mean? We're trading the amount of capital that we're trading now is more than any of one of us had access to individually or put together. I mean it's i it's an opportunity to really uh push push yourself

as as an individual and and push yourself as a team and and really take it to the next level and really grow as a trader. And I mean that's what it's all about for me. That's why I had to just full speed ahead and and just Let's let's build a team in San Diego. You know, just like I I had to. I'll I'll just say one last thing about it, Aaron, and that is like I n I already had the dream job. Like I was w I was w trading from home for years and years and years and years and years. And

T to me that's the best thing in the world. It was for a very long time. Nothing's better. Nothing's better than being a full time trader trading for home for a living. There's just nothing better. It's it's the best thing in the world. And I never thought I would give it up. Never in a million years. But I'm not surprised I gave it up.

to really put a team together and, you know, a team that wants to grow together, a team of guys that are just I don't know how else to say it, man, just Happy and hungry and hustling, you know, together every day and just really going out there to get it and and just really wants to uh to scale and and really really grow. Having a growth mindset, that kind of stuff.

I mean you've definitely worked yourself into a really good seat. You're in a really good position now. You've got, you know, plenty of resources around you. Uh you've kind of got everything behind you now to to really sort of scale this up and and become um you know, a really big trader and also the people around you as well. Definitely. And, you know, it's and it it it is the right formula to I think, I mean, at least for me coming from retail.

from what I was doing as a retail trader, you just take the net of everything as retail and the net of everything now for me as prof, and it's just the right formula to really push the pedal in Excel, you know, and just really see where you can take it, that kind of thing. I agree.

Now let's let's talk about um your trading. Let's get more specific about uh your trading. We did the last podcast in two thousand sixteen and I'd love to ask you three questions. about your trading since then and how it's evolved. So I'd like to ask you what's changed and what's stayed the same and and what you've fine tuned. But you know, let's let's address each of those separately. So first of all

What has changed since two thousand and sixteen? I if anything, if nothing's changed, then that's fine, but I'd love to just ask you that question. Oh God, since yeah, two thousand sixteen? I hit you know, I I I've been able to push push some sides. You know, find find consistency in using s much bigger size than I was using in two thousand sixteen. I mean that's the biggest that's the first thing that comes to mind. Okay. Um but obviously that comes with more risk. And so

I've definitely been taking on more risk since then. Um since since twenty sixteen. But uh there's there's been some setbacks along the way, no doubt about it. You know, like I said You know, just using hard stops. If I if I figured out how to just exclus exclusively use hard stops years ago, man, I feel like I could have saved a lot of money. But um that's all right, you know? That's I'm just fortunate for the experience and

And I'm I'm glad to be where I'm at now and and using hard stops now. Maybe I should just ask for some clarification around this because it's come up a few times now. Th these hard stops. So what were you doing in the past? Did you just kind of have

an idea in your mind of I'm gonna stop out of this trade around this level. Mental risk, exactly. No hard stop, just a mental stop and be like, all right, if I, you know, my risk gets to this point, the problem is I'm scaling As it's going against me, I'm getting bigger in the wrong direction.

You know, now I'm getting so big, I don't wanna take the loss or take part of it. My ego's involved. I'm invested. You know, I it's got me. And, you know, I'm waiting to see. Oh, I feel like if I stop out now, it's gonna be at the at the top. Um or the bottom and you know it'll reverse sharply. I don't want, you know, let's wait and see what happens. All those all that kind of thinking just

kinda lends to the same the same issue. Um and hard stops is is a much in my mind, it's trading that way now is is much more responsible. It's it's much more respectable. Before when I was retail, I could go, I could be down, you know, five or seven grand on the day and then You know, I might end the day up two grand. My wife comes home from work and she just sees it on my face and she's like, oh, bad day. And I'm like, yeah. She's like, oh, how bad? And I'm like.

I mean I traded like cr I made I made two grand I made like a couple grand. And she's like, Well why are you so mad? I don't get what you know And I'm like,'Cause I trade you know, I went down five or seven grand before you know, to get there. It's just it's not sustainable. It's it's a terrible, terrible, terrible thing. That's not good. That's a that's a terrible, terrible process in my mind. And that's very dangerous. Very, very, very dangerous. So

It's been a learning curve for me to adopt hard stops. It's it takes a different approach. how you think about stop placement, like where are you going to place these hard stops? Yeah, that's a great that's a great question. You know, I'm still trying to figure the uh the that answer out myself. Um I feel like there's times where you pick a spot, you know, you might take a stand and be like,

This is it. I think this is the moment. I'm going to size in right now. I'm going to get really big right here. This is it right now. And you put your risk on and I might put a hard stop in there, but I gotta put a really tight collar on it because if it reverses

You know, I'm so big, I can't I can't be trying to see what happens at that point. I gotta be taking some risk off the table there. Yeah, for me it's it's just been tough to pick hard, you know, spots because a lot of the times you'll get You'll get lit up where a whole bunch of stops are going off with yours. You're, you know, you picked a stopping spot where it's really popular with everyone else that's on the same side of the trade, and you'll get some explosive moves out of it.

I think a big part of for yeah, for me and my trading is like anticipating where I think the average guy's gonna stop out, right? Like where You know, where the guy, you know, the same guy that's in my side of the trade where he's gonna stop, or this or the or the average guy that's on the opposite side side of my trade. You know, if I'm short and he's long, where's he gonna stop? And I'm just trying to find those spots and and really

press on them when it's in my favor and I think I've got I've got good odds that I can I can take advantage and and put some healthy risk on. When you're using these hard stops Are you placing multiple hard stops at various levels? Yeah, yeah. So yeah, there's certain routes that you're gonna route to that you might have some limitations to size

Um, so you gotta take that into account. And also it's just once you start trading healthy size, you know, I'm not I'm not looking to take it all off. Uh in one shot. Cause if y you know, if it if it does for example, if I'm short and it shoves and blows off and stops me out and does a sharp reverse reversal. Now now I'm I'm I'm working in hate I'm working in haste trying to get back right in right back in that trade and put that size back on at lower prices, which is even tougher if SSR's on.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's just it's it's trying to pick the right spots. Putting your risk in a in in the same spot that everyone else is putting your risk on, you're just turning into a fish like everyone else. You're just they're gonna

It it doesn't take a genius to figure out where all the stops are for all the shorts, you know, uh depending on what the pattern is or what the what the the intraday chart looks like on the on the name that you're trading, especially if you got a whole bunch of houses on the street that have shares easy to borrow.

You know, and you know everyone's bashing it on Twitter and there's a whole bunch of people short. It's it just takes a lot of common sense. You know, it's just trying to take A bunch of pieces to the puzzle and put it together in a way that that works for you and gives you an advantage. You said that uh another thing which has changed since two thousand and sixteen uh has been your ability to trade with larger size.

Were there any tricks um in in being able to do so? Because I know this is something that a lot of people um find difficult to do is Uh and I think we just spoke about this a little bit earlier, is you kind of become comfortable with certain uh risk or trading certain size. Um, and it can be a little bit challenging to push that comfort zone and begin to trade with with more risk. So, uh, was there anything which you found helpful and and been able to get to that point?

You know, it's funny. You basically said it. When you get comfortable trading a certain size, I mean that alone was enough motivation for me to just keep pushing. Going from being a consistently Losing trader and just losing money for years and years to finally, oh my God, I can make a hundred bucks every day with my eyes closed.

Well if I can make a hundred bucks I can make two hundred bucks. Well if I can make two hundred bucks, I can make four hundred bucks. And you start just challenging yourself, pressing you know, pressing yourself. Well You just the the issue is you can't do too much too fast. You can't go from making five hundred bucks a day to deciding you're gonna make five thousand bucks a day. It just doesn't at least for me it didn't work like you know, it doesn't work like that.

You gotta it it's a progressive it's a progressive growth. you know, process if you will. If you uh I don't know, if you if you if you're used f if you're familiar trading a thousand shares a day and you could do it with your eyes closed and you're not it's no big deal to you. If you just put 10% more size on, if you put go 1,100 shares, you probably won't even notice the difference. I mean it it's not that big a difference. You probably won't even care.

So I think having an incremental, you know, pressing the pedal when you're doing well, and then having the wisdom to lay off the pedal when you're in a drawdown or you're not doing so well. I think that's the way to do it. I think that's I think that's a great way to to play in the markets and At least for for me and my trading. Yeah, I think what you just said there is actually Really good advice. Um well, actually I don't like using the word advice on this podcast but

A really good suggestion. Yeah, no no advice here. Uh incremental steps when you're doing well. When you're not doing well having the the ability to actually recognise that and take your foot off the gas.

When you start doing well again, then incremental steps. You know, the market yeah, the markets can be so generous sometimes. And if it's enough to make you feel like a genius, but you just gotta realize you're not, you gotta, you know, trust in your process. trust that, you know, it's just you you're just you're just there. You're just you're just giving you're just taking what it's giving you. But if the if the success is there, if the results are there, like if you're on a hot streak,

Well, why not press more? Why not risk more? I mean, as long as it's responsible. You know, that's that's what I've always That that definitely helped me break out of my limitations since we last spoke in twenty sixteen. Who wants to who wants to go around saying, yeah, I can make two hundred and fifty bucks a day or I can make five hundred bucks a day or even a thousand bucks a day with my eyes closed? Is I mean that's good money. I don't want to sound like a a dick or anything, but

It's not your full potential is what you're saying. Yeah. My my my answer is I really have no idea what why thought you're gonna say something really deep. Yeah, well I mean I might get there, but I'll you know, I'll just briefly try, but it's like I don't really know but I want to be, you know, I think you nailed it. Like your big your best potential. Like, why settle for anything less than the best you can be? And I think best is a moving target.

And I think there's always better. You know, it's it's virtually impossible to put on a perfect trade. Virtually impossible. There's always something you can improve on. And I think it's a lifelong Journey. It's a lifelong love. You have to be passionate about it. It's it's just a it's a it's a requirement. If if you're not passionate,

I you're just never gonna you're gonna the market's just gonna run you over and you're not gonna be able to pick yourself up after time, time and time again of getting run over. I have really good trading conversations with my wife. I told you she's Or I don't know if I told you, but anyway, she started trading um lightly, you know, l not like not like me. She's not a market total market junkie yet. But

She she understands it. She she totally gets it. And uh, you know, I'll tell her, oh man, I had this. this trade and it was just like I saw it and I was seizing it. I put my size on. It was it was going and then it started going against me. And I took some stops, but I didn't. And then I started fighting it and all this stuff. And

You know, she'll just sh she's like this great you know, she's like this great thing that always tells me what I need to hear. And sometimes it's frustrating because I already know what I need to hear. But it's just it's it's a it's a it's a fantastic you know, thing to have in your life, um, you know, if your partner, if you will, is is fully supportive of your your passions.

Um, and she'll just tell you, you know, like, well, why why are you so attached to the idea, you know, why be so attached to that trade? You're gonna do this the rest of your life, Nico, like Let go of the outcome. And I'm like, I know, I know, I know I should know that. You know, it's like you get these repeated what's the word, you know, repeated principles, ideas, uh You know, things that uh tenants, um things that you know for trading that

But it's easy to forget'em. Some don't and some other times. You know, it's just really nice to get the reminders. So shout out to my wife. I love you. So since two thousand and sixteen, what things about your trading have stayed the same?

Stayed the same. Just turd companies that run to the moon and and go really big and go far. Um it's still a big part of what I'm interested in. I love the the micro markets. The micros uh I just I don't know man. I'm just fascinated. You get these explosive moves uh that you just can't get in these bigger names or you just don't see every day in these bigger markets. Uh I'm I'm still highly attracted to them, even though They're extremely risky and can be very, very dangerous.

So you'd say that your niche in the market has remained the same and the the types of opportunities which you seek out have also remained the same? I think so, yeah, definitely. I think so. I think so. But the thing is is I've grown a lot in three years and I'm not looking to get involved. Uh I mean I still I still get you know, being a market timer is no easy feat. So, you know, I can easily be be early, but um I'm much better now, I think Being patient, having the discipline to remain patient.

before I'm I get into the trading, you know, I'm I'm picking my spot. Uh whereas before, you know, three years ago, I was I was seeing consistency, which was great. That's outstanding. That showed me there was a light at the end of my long tunnel, but um I was often too early and I was off and I had mental risk. And I think, you know, for me in my trading, mental risk is a disease. And I'm I'm that guy that if I'm not using a hard stop and I'm using mental risk.

I'll take my stops what I'm supposed to most of the time, maybe m maybe even eighty or ninety percent of the time, but that twenty or ten per ten percent of the time I don't, I'm gonna just bury myself. I'm gonna lose a week or more, two weeks or more of or maybe even a month's worth of hard work of consistency, you know, daily consistently, just grinding it out every day. Uh And I just

I feel like that's old Nico, man. That's like a former life. Like I don't I don't need to be that way anymore. That's that's and I'm certainly not looking to do that with firm capital. I'm not trying to look like a you know, a fool to uh Mike Katz and the team at all.

One of the things you highlighted there was kind of having a bit more patience and almost timing your entries a little better. uh, which is maybe perhaps one of the things you've fine tuned over the past three years. And this is one of the things which really impresses me about you is when you post like um you know some of your trades on Twitter, uh, which you uh plot your entries and exits, you know, how you how you traded a particular name.

uh is is just how well you actually time some of those entries. You seem to get it. uh, y you know, you seem to just be getting in at optimal points. How do you Uh, obviously not in all cases, but you know, when you get it right, you really do. What are some of the the ways which you have helped you to better time your entries. Like is there certain things you're looking for in the tape? Or uh, you know, do you have a rule of thumb for, you know, how extended these stocks are or

What helps you to better time your your entries? Sure. So back in twenty sixteen, around around then, like I said, I was seeing consistency, but I'd often be too early. And You start looking over your executions and you start going, Man, I really got squeezed pretty good on that one and oh man, I got squeezed on that one again. And you know, you start saying that over and over and over again. You start looking at the data and it's

The numbers don't lie. The stats are there. The the data doesn't lie. And I found, you know, God, I'm really early a lot of the time. If I would just remain patient, there's a certain point where the chart Is just begging you. It's just, it's like as though it's talking to you and it's like ps. Right now, like of all the moments, right? You've been staring at this thing all freaking day. You've been watching the tape all day long.

You know, you're being patient and you're like, I'm not gonna get involved yet. And I'm not saying I do this every day. I I you know I I slip up all the time, but my best trades. are definitely where I have the discipline to remain patient and not get involved too early. And I'm waiting for that moment. The reason that's such a huge edge. Is because that's where you can put size on. So if you see the tides changing.

In the market that you're trading, if you see the shift, the turn, so to speak, and you see, and you're going, wait a minute. All these buyers that have longed all this volume all day long so far. I'm pretty sure they're gonna start selling, you know, I I know if I was one of'em, I'd f I'd pretty sure I'd take that signal as a sell and I'd be looking for the exits. If I'm not involved to that entire point to get there. Now I'm clear headed. That's a huge edge.

Huge edge. If I'm involved early on. I'm focused on getting bent. I'm focused on I'm in the red. I'm focused on my size. I'm trying to get small, but I'm too big and it's going against me. I'm focused on losing money. I'm focused on all this stuff. If I can avoid all that and just not get involved and go, you know what? If this sets up, if this turns up into this.

If it does that, it will be a mega opportunity. Like the opportunity will show itself if it gets there. You know, who knows? No one's got a crystal ball. But oftentimes You see wild things happening. And if you focus on, you know, I want to focus on being a market timer. I want to focus on avoiding being early. I don't want to be involved. I don't want to have skin in that trade.

And like I said, I'm not doing this every day. Sometimes I'm you know, sometimes I am, sometimes I'm not. It's it's a moving target. But my best trades are are when I have the discipline to stay away until

The tape in that chart is just begging me and I can't even help myself and I'm just I just get in there. I just, you know, you're just seizing the opportunity. You're it's like um something It's like you've you've seen it so many times, so on a subconscious level that You've seen it so many times on a conscious level that when you get back into that moment and you're not involved, you have a clear head and you're just willing to go full risk on it right there in that moment.

I mean, that's cause you're not even trying to scale because you think that might be the turn. Uh those are the best ones. Those are the ones that I I'm not even saying they're perfect, but I mean those, you know, nothing's perfect. You always wish you had more size on when you're right and less size on when you're wrong. But those are the trades that make being a market timer, I think, really challenging.

I know some people are going to listen to this and they're gonna say, Well, how do I know if I'm too early? It's like it's one of those things you literally cannot even describe. Right. Like I could literally try to describe it for you, but I'm not sure that would have any relevance to like, I mean, we're we all have different per like. I I I can't I won't even bother trying to describe it. It's just all I can say is you will know. Like the the chart and the tape will just

be screaming at you like now, now, now, now, now. Like it's it's like that it's this tiny, tiny, tiny window of time where If you got involved with the amount of size you want to put on at any point before that. You'd be upside down and trying to figure your way out and you'd be fighting the thing and you'd be

Or you'd be taking a ton of small lot paper cuts on the way up and before you know it, by the time the the real opportunity came, you're already down multiple more R's than than you you wanted to be. It it It's that small window of time staying uninvolved. You're not involved and then it's like I don't I just don't know how to describe it. It just the chart the tape, it's like you see it in real time. And you're going now, now, now, now, now, now. And a lot of the time in those like

influx moments, it's it's a lot of the time it's like these sharp reversals where a bunch of sh a bunch of stops will go off and it'll help kind of the tsunami move turn into a bigger tsunami. And If you pick your spots right, what I like to do when I pick these spots is I'll like to what I call slip into them where I'll I'll um basically stop my way into them, stop entry and get bigger with more stops as it's going in my favor. And the other advantage to that is is

you know, bringing my aver you know, if I'm shorting it, it's bringing my average down of my position. The great news is, and everyone wants the best average, I get it. But the great news is is price is going in my favor. So I'm only getting bigger Going in, you know, the direction I want it to go. Um, and and the fact that there's an influx of stops helping create that.

That explosive move, uh, just makes it even even better because those are the moves that really scare the longs, make them want to turn into sellers. That's basically it. I totally understand your point in saying it it's really difficult to describe because I think it's Yeah, that's that's probably very true. It's it's probably

Um, you know, one of those things which you've just learned from so many hours in front of the screen. You know, screen time. You know, weeks turn into months, turn into years and You just become I there's a point where, you know, you're going, you know, you're two turning blue in the face because you're just staring at this stuff so long. But even if you don't think you're getting it on a conscious level,

Yeah, I think it's still advantageous because I think there's there's a lot of power to be had by the, you know, that the subconscious mind provides. And a lot of this stuff it can be Pattern recognition, like you just you just see it over and over and over and over again.

And you go, wait a minute, last time I saw that, we got a really big move, really big move. You know, that's the kind of trade I want. And if you can couple that kind of thinking with a thesis, kind of before you get there to define the opportunity. I you know, I just think that's a recipe for success, man. Mm-hmm.

I guess uh the other side of this is being able to time your exits. Again, this is something which uh I'm often quite impressed by is how well you do time your exits. How do you think about sort of unwinding these trades? I think, you know, the tough part is knowing what trade is a scalp, what am I looking to scalp, and what trade am I looking to put a position on and, you know, does this have a chance of fading all day? Or is this like something I think I'm gonna be able to hold a few hours?

It's putting a lot of things together and you know I I'm not always getting it right. You know, a lot of the time I'll end up piking something and at the end of the day I'll just be like, damn man, I can't believe that. Like I might have made forty cents on the trade, but I could have made a dollar forty.

uh per share or something. I mean it's just it none of this is an exact science, but you know, having repeat offenders and understanding the environment of the micro movers, the micro market that we're in, you know, sometimes we're in a micro market where These these micro movers they'll just

They'll run and run and run and maybe you get a continuation move on day two. And maybe you don't even get a sell you know, they just get they run for days and you don't really even get shorts just get plowed through and run over and steamrolled until day three. And then in other times you'll have a micro market where

You know, they're they're pretty weak and man, they can't even get a good day going. They'll get like a morning gap and a push and then they'll end up fading for the rest of the day, or maybe they'll make it for a few hours in strength and then they'll end up fading the rest of the day.

So I'm I'm trying to be in tune with what You know, a lot of people that trade a lot of traders that trade uh big cap stocks, they're highly, highly, highly in tune with what Um, you know, some you know, if I'm trading Apple, then if I was a a big board trader and I'm trading Apple or Google or something, I might be highly in tune with what the Nasdaq index is doing, right?'Cause it's like

uh birds of a feather flock together, that kind of thing. So normally the index leads or you get relative strength and weakness from one to the other, that kind of thing. So I'm kinda taking that strategy or that type of thinking, if you will, and trying to apply it to The micro markets. Um, you know, what kind what kind of environment are we in? Are we in an environment where these things are

are able to get, you know, go really strong and big. If so, I'm gonna be reluctant to Maybe I'm just gonna avo avoid day one, do my best to avoid and not get involved on day one and just see if I can get it if there's any opportunities on on day two and and just see if I can play it that way or or if we're in a really weak market for micros then and something gaps, maybe I'll I'll I'll be more inclined to be more aggressive um off the open or or that kind of thing.

Something like that. As you're kind of hinting to there and as we spoke about uh right at the beginning, you you said that the micro market, the micro caps, uh that sector has been heating up a little bit lately. Let's do one last question, we'll close it out here, but For someone who's a newer trader, someone who's less experienced, uh, and who is uh getting involved in this area of the market,

Do you have any kind of suggestions or any um any words of caution, things to look out for, what to be aware of with regard to these particular types of plays? I I guess what you

What you can probably speak to is more to play in the short side, but you know, I know there are traders who will also uh participate in the long side as well. But Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. What what are your thoughts there? Yeah. So I guess going from retail to professional, you know, I'm not there there's no advice, there's no uh suggestions, none of that. Um, but I can share what I did for me in my trading. You know, I was always highly interested in micros.

And before getting consistent consisting consistency, I think keeping your size small is is is a really big was a really big thing for me, keeping my size small. You know, if you go too big too quick, if you get on the wrong side of something, especially You know, if you a small account, I mean it could just be detrimental. And it's so easy. It's so, so, so easy on these things to get stuck. And they can go so much further than you think.

And it especially if you're like not using hard stops and you're like a mental risk type of guy or girl trader, it can just take you to the cleaners, man. You know, even if you're small, you get something like Tilray or something or I don't know, like IGC. IGC was, you know, I think that thing went to like fourteen, fifteen or sixteen bucks from two two dollars.

I mean y if you had a small account and you only had two thousand shares at two bucks, you're like, well, it already popped up fifty percent. I'll just wait for the fade and I'll be right eventually. And you just got mental risk on it, you never eat your mental risk. I mean when that thing goes to the teens, if you got a small account you're dead. You know, kiss that account, goodbye. So these animals

They tend to do things that are just amazing. Amazing, amazing, amazing. So be respectful. Don't think, you know. I I never want to press and I still do it, but my goal is I never want to press my my vision for a trade onto the market. You know what I mean? Like I want price to show me whether I'm right or wrong. I want price to to lead the way. And I my goal is to not be attached to the trade. But these these micros, man, they are.

It's a love hate thing. You know, it th they're they're the most beautiful thing ever if you can nail'em and you can time'em right. But uh if you can't Gotta be careful. Gotta respect the risk. Gotta love protect your capital. That's that's that's the number one thing. Good stuff, man. Nice words of wisdom. Uh Nico, you're on Twitter. Uh can you please share your Twitter handle? Sure. It's a inefficient market. I think it's at

Yeah, I'm pulling it up right now so I don't mess this up.'Cause I know it's like ones without vowels or something. It's At inefficient. M R K T Okay. I'll repeat that. It's at inefficient MRKT. Uh, and folks listening to this episode, uh, I would encourage you to go back and listen to uh the first podcast I did with Nico. This is of course the second one. Uh the first one you can find at chatwithraders dot com slash nine six. It was episode ninety-six.

What what are we on now? Or what uh this will be episode one hundred and eighty something. Wow, man, you've been busy. Awesome.

Well, don't forget it was three years ago. Yeah, true. Yeah. And that uh the title of uh that previous episode uh I think was was a good one and and very fitting and Uh, it was titled uh an eight year overnight success story. So that's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah. I think that sticks in some people's mind. Had a bunch of people tell me they really like that episode, so

Um I think it resonated with with many people. So yeah, if you're listening to this, make sure you go back and listen to that episode as well when you get a chance. Nico, I wanna say uh absolute pleasure speaking to you again. I'm I'm really excited for you and um it's nice to It's nice to catch up with traders who have had on the podcast in the past and just sort of see how they've, you know, evolved and continu continue to progress. So

Um, you know, I love what you're doing and yeah, of course we'll we'll keep in touch. So yeah, thanks for doing this again. Hey, pleasure's all mine. I'm honored to be on again. Thanks for all that you do for the community, man. You've created a tremendous resource for I mean it's just tremendous and I don't mean to sound like the president. I appreciate it very much. Thank you. Cheers, man. That's a wrap. the end of this episode of Chat with Traders. But rest assured there are more episodes.

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