041: Kam Dhadwar – Studying Excellence, Trading Value, and Believing in Your Approach

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chat for more information. Tasty Trade Inc. is a registered broker dealer and member of Finra, NFA and SIPC. The biggest secret of the best traders in the world is that they're just like everyone else. However, they've worked hard to learn the markets and discover what works and what doesn't. But how can you hear about these journeys? with traders. Here's your host, Aaron Fei.

What's up guys? Hope you're doing really well. Welcome to episode 41 of the Chat with Traders podcast and thank you very much for listening in. This week my guest is a discretionary futures trader from London, UK, and his name is Cam Dada. Cam originally started out in two thousand one. From two thousand five onward he spent a few years trading within a prop firm and nowadays has reverted to trading independently.

During this interview, we discuss the great emphasis CAM places on auction market theory, market profiling, and volume profiling techniques to capitalize on intraday moves. Additionally, we also discussed the importance of believing in your trading plan, the two types of risk, both financial and psychological, and how CAM uses NLP, mindfulness, and meditation practices to continually improve trading performance.

Plus plenty more as well, but developing the right mindset seems to be the underlying theme throughout this episode, and I feel as though you're really going to enjoy this one, so let's just get into it. I'm your host, Aaron Feifeld. This is the Chat with Traders podcast, and here is this week's guest, Cam Data. Ken, welcome to the podcast, buddy. How you doing?

Yeah, very well, thank you. Thanks for having me. No trouble whatsoever. Thank you very much for coming on, um and being cool with an interview. I have a feeling this is gonna be really great. So I mean I know it's Sunday evening for you right now. Tell me how's your weekend but

Yeah, it's been good, you know, I spent some time with the family, uh spent some time with the kids and that that's the main thing for me, that's my priority in life right now. You know, m spend as much time as I can with the family and my kids. You know, that's my that's my sort of uh life right now and you know, so I I spent some time with them and, you know, enjoyed some some days out uh over the weekend. So we had some uh you know, we had some good fun. So uh it's been good.

Very cool. Good to hear, man. Well, Cam, I'd like to go right back to your early days in investment banking. So tell me, how did you come into this job and when did you begin to develop an interest in trading? Yeah, well uh when I graduated from university I started to work in in investment banking but on the trading floor as a desktop uh support engineer, so I was providing the traders support for their PCs if there was any issues.

the software, the hardware, etcetera. So um that's how I got into investment banking, but I wasn't in the you know, the trading industry itself, but I was supporting traders. So I just found it fascinating being on the trading floor. on a day to day basis and I just found it found it was really exciting. So you know, I started to speak with some of the traders there, started to ask them, you know, how they got into it.

Um and I just become obsessed with trading and I just wanted to become a trader. So I started to read some books. Um one of the first books I read was A Beginner's Guide to Daytrading Online by Tony Turner, and that book sort of taught me some of the basics to get into trading. It was actually recommended to me by a trader there.

So I read that but the interesting thing for me was there there was this uh center point, it was a center point at the end of each chapter, which basically was um a motivational quote, but also some paragraph on trading psychology, self development. So I really sort sort of got interested in the fact that, you know, psychology was so important, the mindset, developing the mindset, etcetera.

So that really sort of got me even more interested. I really got sucked into the, you know, developing the right kind of mindset, which really helped me when I actually started trading because I I spent a hell of a lot of time developing the right kind of mindset. And then I actually started to, you know, developed a strategy.

Whereas most traders get into trading and they will develop a strategy, try to trade their strategy and then realize they have to work on their mindset. So, you know, in that in that sense, I actually had a you know a bit of a head start. And um yeah, that's how I got started in trading, well developing the interest in trading. So

Back in uh two thousand and one I started to trade a demo account for about a year. Then I borrowed five thousand pounds off my mother and I said, I'm gonna open up an account. I opened a spreadbetting account and I started to trade the Mini Dow. In the i in the evenings afterwards.

And I did that for about a year and a half and then I just decided to just dive straight in. Uh two thousand three, it was the summer of two thousand and three. I decided to dive dive straight into trading. I started to trade futures then. Um and I was trading full time uh since summer 2003. Um and basically I I just bought some mum money off my mum. I I bought£25,000. I was lucky enough to you know be handed that money and be trusted with it.

And um and and in two thousand and five I got into prop trading. Uh one of my friends uh which went to school with me. He he actually was sort of born into the stock trading world because his dad was a trader. So he went straight onto the uh London Stock Exchange and then into prop trading. He introduced me to prop trading back in 2005, got me some financial backing. And you know, that was where the you know journey really started.

Okay, Cam, that's really good. So let's really zoom in to that journey. Um so did your role in investment banking, do you believe that at all sort of prepared you for what you were about to experience with trading? Not really. I think it just sort of prepared me in the sense that I knew it was emotion fueled. But um, you know, the the traders in investment banking are not trading l you know, like I am, uh you you are, you know, as day traders, etcetera. They you know, they're trading

clients' funds, you know, it's all long term, you know, there's departments for risk management, fixed income, etc. So it's a completely different world. But um you know, trading is still you know it's emotion fueled when you're trading for yourself. So investment banking sort of

got me interested, but it didn't really help me because I wasn't an a a trader there. I was providing support, but I also knew that I wanted to work for myself and do my own thing. So um, you know, in that sense it just sort of prepared me, you know, to to to go into a business which I knew

was gonna be em emotion fueled. You know, that that's about it. There wasn't really much else I learned from being in the investment banking field, you know? Sure. Okay. So you mentioned that there was a a book which really helped you um in the early days when you were sort of learning the road. Where else were you learning from? Like what other information were you taking in and how were you sort of developing your knowledge on trading?

Yeah basically from from my job in investment banking working for the traders Um I developed some friends there and you know them them guys sort of uh introduced some websites, some online sources. I used to use stockcharts.com. Uh it's still there, they've got a chart school there, you know, so it's it's lots of uh detailed information on candlestick. chart patterns, etcetera. So I started to really sort of uh

go into the uh the the online uh material that was freely available. So I didn't really read that that many books. I just went through the online material that was available. Um I came across something called stage analysis which basically broke broke down all markets into four cycles, stage one, stage two, stage three, stage four, which I still use until this day.

And then I discovered Fibonacci and I started to really apply Fibonacci on my charts. I was using eSignal back then. So, you know, that's where I really started to um you know get my own thing going with my own uh sort of technical strategy, if you like. Okay, awesome. Yeah, we're really going to dig into your strategy um shortly. Um just before we get into that though, um, do you traded for a few years while you're still holding down a full time job?

How did you manage this? Like how much time were you devoting to trading and what style or type of trading did you focus on to begin with? Well, I was trading the Mini Dow. That was the product that I chose to focus on. Um so I was trading that between seven PM and nine PM because I used to get back from work probably about six PM, six thirty.

So I'd dive straight in, I'd uh the markets were open in the uh you know the afternoon uh in the US, which is our evening here in the UK. So I had that benefit, of course. Um so I was able to sort of work, hold my job, but also come back in the afternoon. Sorry, the evening, it's an afternoon session for the US market. So I was able to trade the Mini Dow.

I then quite quickly discovered that I wasn't really going to make that much of an income just trading the Mini Dow. So I decided to also start trading Spock for it. uh swing trading, you know, holding a position for days, if not sometimes weeks. So I started getting to spot forex trading as well. So um that's you know, it's about two hours a day I could sort of commit to for for day trading.

Okay. And and what was the moment when you felt confident that you could make the transition from part-time to full-time trader? And what advice would you give to any other trader who has a goal of doing the same?

Yeah, I was quite lucky in the in the sense that I I was basically living with a mother, uh, you know, sh I didn't have a mortgage, I didn't have kids, I wasn't married, so in that sense I didn't really have a hell of a lot to lose, you know, I didn't have a mortgage, I didn't have a house to lose, etcetera. So

And I also had the benefit of getting some financial backing for my mother, you know, which um, you know, luckily enough uh provided me some, you know, some some support through, you know, me getting started with the business. So In that sense, I didn't really have much holding me back, so I got straight into it. I dived right in. I went to a Tony Robinson.

Anthony Robbins and um he said one thing that really stuck in my head, which was you have to put yourself in a position where you have to perform. And that really sort of hit home for me because I found when I had a job, I knew I was getting a regular income from that. So I didn't really have to commit fully. To my trading because it was more of a sort of sideline thing. So I realized that I was missing a hell of a lot of opportunity in the morning session. So I really wanted to commit to that.

So I found myself just taking a lot of time off work. I didn't want to go in because I wanted to trade, I want to spend some time there. So it was clear that I didn't really have the motivation to to you know to hold my job down, so I I had to leave. Um so

I listened to that that phrase that Tony Wobbin said and he he just said, You have to put yourself in a position where you have to perform meaning that, you know, if you're in a position where you don't have to perform, you you don't really have to commit, you know, you could you can sort of get in that comfort zone.

But I wanted to put myself in a position where I had no choice. I had to succeed. I had to do something. So that's why I just decided to dive straight in. I went full-time into trading.

Started, you know, trading my own account, you know, had my ups and downs as we do. You know, you learn through the uh experience. But um, you know, that was the main thing, you know, Tony Robbins, that just just that phrase, it really got me going, you know? Yeah, that's a really great quote. I do like that one. Um I think that that's awesome. Um I asked this question the other week and I think it's quite a good one.

Um so when you did make the switch to full time trading, did you find that your trading habits changed in any way? Or was there anything that changed which you probably weren't quite expecting? Yeah, definitely. Um the emotions really picked up because the pressure, you know, once you don't have a job, you don't have any regular income.

Um, you know, luckily, you know, as I said, you know, I I didn't have a mortgage, I was you know, I was living with my m my mother, so I you know, I had a roof over my head. You know, I knew I was gonna have my roof over my head, I wasn't gonna lose that. So in that sense, you know, I had a a bit of um uh support there, but also at the same time there was a lot of pressure. all of a sudden you know there's a lot of emotion that came into trading full time.

Because now I don't have any regular income. Um, you know, it's it I've got to rely on my trading. So you know, those months, those weeks when you're learning and you're really applying, you know, what you've learned.

Uh you know, there's many times where you don't make money when you're trading. You know, I I I didn't expect that. I decided to get into trading thinking that you know I was gonna make money every day, every week. You know, it's just gonna be linear, meaning I make more and more every month. You know, my my financial forecast when I first started trading.

look like basically two grand, one month, three grand, next month, four grand, you know, the next month. Lich literally just sort of adding on a thousand pounds every month, which which is not realistic at all, you know. So you know, trading is not linear. It's not

it's not linear for me now, it's never gonna be in that way. So you know you just sort of gotta realize that the reality is that it's gonna be very up and down, like any business really. You know, trading is a business and and that's the way I see it. So like any business, you're gonna have some good weeks, you're gonna have some good months.

Uh but then you're gonna have some down months and you know down weeks as well. So you know you've got to be able to get through that. And that was an eye opener for me. You know, so I I you know, I had to get used to going through these ups and downs but sort of get through them as well. You know, remain resilient, uh build that discipline to stick with the plan. So, you know, there are many

many obstacles to overcome but you know when you get into this business as most of you you know you guys that are listening will know. So you know I really had to work my mindset and that's why in two thousand five I I become a N L Pact practitioner. So I I took a course to become a neurolinguistic practitioner. Um I also become a master practitioner back in two thousand six. Um so I started to use those techniques to help myself with my mindset, uh get into more sort of um

resourceful states, more positive states while whilst I was trading. I learned how to use um, you know, the reframing techniques. I was reframing Things that I've learned to sort of uh think as negative or uh you know bad. So I I learned to reframe them. So I started to see things like down days. And down weeks or drawdowns as positives, meaning that I started to reframe what they meant because most people will see a drawdown and they think it's bad, something's gone wrong.

So I learned to reframe that that situation because I also started to see that after a drawdown or a dip in your equity curve, normally, you know, that's when the good run comes. So I started to reframe that. Even now when I see a dip, you know, if there's a couple of weeks where I'm not making that much money, I know that the good time is, you know, just around the corner. You know, so I have to sort of stick with that.

So um, you know, I've I've learnt a lot from um, you know, NLP, you know, working on my mindset meditation as well, you know. So Sure. Okay, and just before we we move on. When you did make that jump from part time to full time trading and you did borrow uh that that money from your mother Were you consistently profitable at that stage or were you still very much in the the struggle zone that you were very much learning uh how to how to find your feet?

I was making money uh but um you know it wasn't consistent at all. Uh it was two thousand and uh four that I really had, you know, a a period where I started to make some consistent money, I started to come over you know, get over some of my obstacles, etcetera.

And then in 05 when I went into prop trading, that's when it, you know, it was a real sort of eye-opener for me with my trading. So um, you know, it wasn't it wasn't a straight one run where I was making money every week and every month. You know, there was some, you know, there was some down week. Uh most months were positive, but you know there were some months which are you know I made very little, you know. Okay. So so if we had to sort of kind of sum it up.

What would you say were your greatest challenges and even failures in that early stage that you had to overcome during those first? I think it's you know just sort of realising that you know there are many parts within us as human beings. And they really uh you know come out when you're when you get into this trading So you really have to face your demons.

Um it wasn't something that I was expecting. I knew that, you know, the s the psychological aspects were really important in training. I knew you had to have discipline. But I didn't realise to what extent you really have to um, you know, face your demons, your inner uh inner demons, the the the things that um, you know, are part of us but they are they are also at the same time, um

sometimes in conflict with your goals and your objectives. So I started to recognise um that I had parts of me that would sort of help me uh achieve my goals, but there were an there were also parts that fight against those objectives because um, you know, there's a fear, there's the there's the ego, and the ego is a big thing that I had to overcome. You know, the ego is is the, you know, the key ingredient for for failure and and for drawdowns because

The ego is, you know, it's all it's all about the self-image. The ego is a self-image. It's what you think about yourself. It's what others think others think about you. You know, the the thing in trading we really have to accept losses, right? I don't even call them losses. I call them the cost of doing business, expenses. Because I don't use the word loss. The reason is because loss itself That word has uh has a real deep

Sort of pain uh associated with it, with with any human being. So it doesn't matter within what context, you know, loss is just seen as a negative thing. So as soon as you hear it.

It just feels negative, it sounds negative. So that you know your state just shifts. So I don't use the word loss. I I never talk about losing trades, losing days. I always call them expenses or cost of doing business. Um so you know the things that I've learn as a trader, you know, the main things that I had to overcome is the ego, you know, there's the self-image.

Get used to accepting that you can be wrong. Get used to accepting that, you know, you you're not gonna always be right and your your your your strategy, it doesn't matter how good it is, you know, you're gonna have uncertainty and you have to embrace Yeah. And I mean I think that's a really powerful way of looking at losses too. So I'm glad you really brought that up. Yeah, I mean in NLP one of the things that I learnt is, you know, you have to

Language is a very important factor, you know, in i in us as human beings. Um in NLP we learn that um fifty five percent of our state at in any given moment is is is really it's it's It comes from our uh physiology, you know, how our body is, right? Um, but 38% is the language, only 7% is the word. So 38% is a big, big chunk as well, you know. So you can shift your physiology. Like if you're depressed or you're sad, you know, your body, your physiology is completely.

Okay. And if you're confident and you feel good, your physiology is completely different. You know, your heart rate is different, your your blood pressure is different, but your body feels completely different and you also have a different posture, you know.

So these are things that I had to become aware of and really sort of focus on uh understanding. You know, I learned I learned that when I was over trading, I leaned forward. My physiology was different. When I waited patiently, I was actually sitting back and my my back was against my chair. Um I learned that when I stopped using language that was not positive.

such as the word loss, you know. A lot of traders use the word loss or down you know, they call it a losing day, a losing trade. Uh they even call them themselves a loser, you know. But the thing is that that word itself i is very, very Um powerful, you know, not just on a conscious level but on a subconscious level. So you can't really. Turn it around, you know. Many people struggle to see lost

a positive thing because loss itself has a very deep rooted feeling within most people, you know, loss of a loss of a loved one, loss of money, loss of a job. You know, it just doesn't feel good to most human beings. So you shouldn't use the word. You can take it out. I don't use it in my journal. I don't use it in you know my my um my trading journals in terms of my spreadsheets where I recall my trades. I actually have renamed the columns where it says loss as cost of doing business.

So these are things that anybody can do and it really does have a powerful effect, you know, in the long run.

Okay, sure. That's really good, man. Thank you for explaining that. It's very well said. Um so you've mentioned your days as a prop trader a little bit, I'd like to kind of zoom in on on that if we could. So Talk to us a bit about a bit about your prop days. Like how did the opportunity come about and and what did you just make of the experiment?

Yeah, when I got into pop trading, one of my friends that I went to school with, um, like I said, you know, he was pretty much born into the trading world. His dad was a stock trader. He went straight into the London Stock Exchange uh as a floor trader, and then he went into this pop firm which he was one of the directors at. So he introduced me to the firm and uh got me some financial backing based on my past performance.

Um so I got some back in now. I basically was able to trade quite a bit of size. And initially when I went in first few weeks, I traded way too much. I started trading twenty, thirty contracts. I used to trade four and I was up and down, you know, the the P and L were just swinging up and down, and you know, it's the first time I experienced that level of anxiety, that kind of uh that kind of fear. It w it was it was just it was very

It was unsettling for me. So I realized that putting on size is is not just as simple as just sort of having the capital and being able to do it. It's it's it's ri it's you know, there are two kinds of risks. There's psychological risk, there's financial risk. So just because you can take that kind of risk, you know, if you've got 500 grand in your account.

uh you know, you can take one percent risk which is five grand. It doesn't mean you you know you can psychologically handle it. Financially you might be able to, but psychologically you might not be able to. So I had to learn that when I started trading, you know, much bigger than I really should. Um I started to do a lot of scalping when I went into pop trading and um you know for me Scalping is not what I do. I I tend to focus on more of a longer term perspective intraday.

I tend to look for like one or two good trades per day. I'm very, very picky. But I started to try to become something that I wasn't because I wanted to try it out. Because everybody in in in in London back then, top traders, everybody was scalped. You know, I used to be called the longer term trader, even though I traded in today. You know, scalping is something that I tried. I try to get into. During a time where, you know, I think it was a lot more.

Uh there was a lot more potential, you know, it was more it was more achievable. Um not to say you can't scalp anymore, it's just not my choice. You know, I think of um you know what I do as playing football, uh scalping as playing tennis, you know, it they're both sports. But they're two different sports, you know, and this is the thing that I find with traders when I'm coaching them, they try to mix it up. They will listen to a scalper learn execution from a scalper using water flow.

And then yet they're looking for, you know, a 20, 30 tick run based upon a longer term perspective move. And, you know, people start mixing things up because they're listening to like 10, 20 different people. And um you know, it just gets you know it gets really confusing and I I think people just have to commit to one style. Um there's a lot of a mix up right now, you know, with the guys that I work with. People are trying to use

scalp a risk, scalper execution strategy, but try to hold the trades longer. It's not gonna work. So you know in prop trading I learned that uh You know, there is there's a lot of traders using profiles. You know, that was when I got introduced to profiles. Uh order flow, reading the DOM, um L a lot of traders didn't even have charts. They just had, you know, the the trading ladders, the DOMs, and they just looked at those and they traded off that all day long.

So you know, I learnt quite a lot from being there, but I also learnt that I didn't like being in a trading floor environment. I I found it very distracting. I didn't like the fact that it was so emotion fueled. I didn't like the fact that people were sort of uh start swearing, chucking monitors and screens across the room because they, you know, had a losing day or losing trade. So I found it very emotion emotion fueled. So I sit there with my headphones on.

Um I wanted to go back home. I sat there for three years trading there because I want but I wanted to go back home and I wanted to trade from my own office again. So I did that in 2008. You know, but top trading taught me a lot about myself.

I learned that I actually don't want to be in that environment, but some people do. I coach some people. They love to be on the floor. They like that competitive environment. They wanna be surrounded by other people. I'm very much like I wanna trade. I don't wanna be distracted by anyone, you know? So everyone's a little bit different. So I learnt that from being

Okay. So what were some of the main reasons that kept you there for th the three years? I mean, was it the access to like um the coaching and the education or the technology? Well there's not much coaching really. You know, y you do have uh psychological coaches that come in every two weeks or so.

Uh but um in terms of technical training there w really isn't any. You know, that you know you just I went in as a trader that had a you know, a track record and had my own strategy. So I was backed but I wasn't taught. So I had to learn myself. So um There wasn't much training. It was really, you know, it's the financial backing, you know, it's a financial backing. Um, you know, the profit splits, you know, I build up a good profit split, but the thing is

I was paying very, very high desk fees back then. Um so I was spending a lot paying for these desk fees. You know, you actually do start off down every month because you have to pay your desk fees. You know, it can be anything between two to three thousand pounds. Um, you know, I now you can probably get away with fifteen hundred you know pounds a month. Uh but those death fees, you know, you're you're down that much every month, you have to make it back.

And then you have to share your profits on top. Which I don't think is a bad thing because you can get a hell of a lot of leverage. And you know, it is for many people it's easier to to trade. uh somebody else's money, you know if it's not yours there's l there's less emotional attachment

Um for me I didn't really see it that different to trading my own money, but I I got to a point it was more of a it was more of an environment thing, you know. But um I think prop trading has its benefit. Um, you know, I had I had the benefit in 2008 to Continue to clear through the prop firm. So I got the benefits of you know the risk management. So there's still that risk layer. There's a risk management desk. I have a risk limit on my account.

You know, I have the technical support, etc. So I I had that set up since 2008 and I still have it now. I've actually started to offer this now to independent traders because it's not available. You know, most independent traders go to retail brokers. So I've got a setup now where traders can clear through a prop firm, they get the lower commission. risk monitoring. You know, the risk monitoring is a key thing that keeps traders in prop coming back the next day, you know.

Sure, sure, absolutely. Okay, so looking back on what we've covered so far with the power of hindsight, is there any way that you feel as though you could have avoided some of the difficulties that you went through? Not really. I don't think I really would want to avoid the difficulties because it's it's I believe that, you know, it's the difficulties, the pain that you have that really makes you grow. So it's it's it's very difficult for me to say that

you know, I I would not want to have experienced those difficulties or think of ways that I would would have tried to avoid them because if I didn't have them, I wouldn't be who I am today, you know. So I think, you know, you grow through pain, you grow through discomfort. Um you gotta have that. You know, if you go to the gym, you know it's it's a pain, it's a discomfort that's gonna make your muscles grow. So same thing, you know, in terms of trading, you know, your mind's gonna grow.

if you test it, if you keep testing the discipline every day, it's gonna grow. But you gotta you you gotta remain resilient. So it's it's the pain, it's the discomfort that makes you grow. So I I don't think you have to avoid it. I think you've got to have Okay. Yeah, no, that's a really good point, Cam. So

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Now that we're pretty much up to speed with your journey and how you got from day one to where you are right now, let's talk about how you trade the market. So if you could just take a few minutes to run us through your trading style and what you're looking for out there. Yeah, sure. Um, I'm basically what you would class as a discretionary trader. There's two kinds of traders, really. There's uh those mechanical systematic traders.

Uh there's discretionary traders. So discretionary traders are those that build their plan every day. You know, it's it's making choices, decisions on the fly based upon what they perceive right now, what they understand right now. That's that's what category I fall under. So I don't trade systematically, mechanically. Um so I use what I call the trading framework, which is basically uh It's a development that I've sort of uh I've built this over my journey.

You like so I've been using profile since 2005, but before that I was trading with stage analysis, uh, which is basically Just the four cycles in the market. So stage analysis and um fibonaji. So I used a bit of fibonaji and also I've always had a top-down approach.

You know, the top down approach would you start, you know, you start on a daily chart, you then move to a sixty minute or a thirty minute chart and then I would draw down to shorter term charts, you know, for execution. So I've always had that approach and I still use those tools until this day because they're very useful. So that sort of gave me the foundation to start trading. And then auction market theory, market profile is what I really started to get into.

Probably about the same time I went into prop trading, you know, I started to uh get a get get some interest in you know the profile and what it what what the potential was back then. So I started to watch the profile every day I started to see if I can see any patterns. Um I read Mind Over Markets by Jim Dolden, which is a great book. It's not very practical, but the theory is there. It got me started. I read the book by Stardemeier as well Stardemeier on the Market.

Uh I read the Chicago Board of Trade handbook, which is great. If you read the first two chapters, that's pretty much all you need to know about auction market theory. That was a game changer for me. You know, the the Chicago Board of Trade Handbook, which is freely available available now from the CME website. That really the first two chapters of that book just made it really simple to understand auction market theory. It just made a hell of a lot of sense. So

From that point, I started to work with the profiles on a day-to-day basis. Um, so I use market profile, volume profiles, I use order flow. I'm very discretionary. I I tend to focus on intraday swing position trades which Are the one to two main sort of trades you get per day, one to two main moves you get per day? You know, there will be days where I don't take a trade, I will sit there four or five hours and not take a trade.

because it doesn't set up. So my plan is very, very specific. It's very clear. The trading framework is basically um it's it's a combination of auction market theory, stage analysis, and some use of fibonology. So I tend to focus on trading value.

So the first thing I do is find where value is in the market. Um it's typically when the market goes sideways. So the market will spend time there, but it will also distribute volume there. So you know you've got to keep in mind the market's the purpose of any market. For the exchange is to facilitate trade.

Okay, it doesn't matter what market it is, that's that's that's the purpose of any market to facilitate trade. It does that best when we find value. Okay, the reason being is because we then have The market finding a fair price, an unfair price, and an unfair price for the buyers and also an unfair price for the sellers. So the market finds value all the time because it that's what it's looking for.

So if you actually look at a market and and you start drawing these profiles around these balanced phases, you will notice that the markets are typically Balance and sideways most of the time. And most traders actually focus on trends. You know, the trends are there, but balance and value is also within trends.

But you also have trends within balance and sideways phases. So you know it's really a mixture. Uh you know, uh all the time there's a mixture of balance and trending markets. So you know, for example, you could have a sideways range over the last two months.

uh on a daily chart but intraday you'll have short term uptrends and downtrends intraday. So you know the market's never really sideways or trending in in my my view. So I basically focus on finding value. Once I find value I look for opportunities to trade back towards value. Okay, so the trading framework gives me an idea

of when I can keep trading towards value and when I have to start looking for the market to move away from value. So that's the thing that typical auction market theory market profile doesn't teach. So I had to sort of find a way to to to to do that for myself in a very structured way. So the trading framework does that.

see ahead of time when you're going to focus on shorts, where you're going to focus on longs, when you have to give up on the shorts of the longs and actually look, you know, for move in the other direction. So it's very, very structured. But at the same time it's not mechanical. So I need to structure, but at the same time I don't want to be fixed. I don't want to be mechanical. Well, does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, totally. So just before we go on, what markets are you most active in?

My main markets are the Boond, Eurostox, sometimes I trade the DAX. So those are products on the URX. Sometimes I trade the E-Mini SP. I use the Mini DAO and Nasdaq really for confluence but I don't trade them anymore. Okay, sure.

I mean I've heard you speak in the past and you speak a lot about um having context of where the price is. Would you like to expand on that? Yeah, context really I mean for me I can't do business without understanding context. But this is one of the key things that a lot of new traders are missing. They don't really understand where they are doing business.

or truly understand where they are doing business. So keep in mind that the market, when you perceive the market, you can really tell yourself any story. So I quite often say there's really no truth. in the marketplace. It's just an opinion, it's a belief. But the thing is, like what I've built, like with the trading framework, it's a belief structure. It doesn't make it right, it doesn't make it wrong. Like somebody else will have a strategy, it doesn't make them wrong.

because I I don't agree with it, you know, it th that that's right for them. So the market that's w what makes the market these differing beliefs, these opinions, you know? So what I tend to do is focus on I tend to focus on market structure to give me an idea of the context. So I always work with a top down approach. So I work on the daily chart.

Some people think, you know, daily chart isn't that a bit long term if you're trading intraday. For me, the daily chart tells me what's gonna happen over the next few days, maybe weeks. So, you know, that is actually what's gonna manifest itself intraday. So if I'm aware, you know, the market might have a move higher. this week. I know

from the daily chart alone, you know, I wanna focus more on the buy side, you know. So I I go for a top down approach in that sense. So that gives me an idea of context on the daily chart, longer time frame chart. I typically trade a longer time frame chart which is minimum 30 minute bars, 60 minute bars. Those value areas that I trade around might build over two or three days, sometimes week. And I will focus on trading around those value errors with context.

And it's finding that value that gives me the context, really. So I go for a top down approach, I find context, and because I have context. What I mean by context is it's a story. I've told myself a story that I can believe in, you know. I can say, okay, this market is is o oversold, overbought because I can see where value is. So I think it's unfair for the seller below value. I think it's unfair for the buyer above value. Therefore I know I don't want to be a seller below value.

I know also I don't want to be a buyer above value. So I know what I want to focus on. So but it's for a good reason because I know there is value below or above. So that provides me context. It provides me something to focus on. I quite often say, you know, that the market, it's not about direction because the market if you really look at it The markets will move up and down just as well as the

You know, you have good moves up and down. You can make money on any side of the market, really, on most days. You'll have the odd day where we just trend and we just move higher or lower. But typically the markets are you know very good on the upside and the downside. There's opportunity on both sides. So it's not about direction, so it's about focus, it's about structure. So to find focus and structure you have to have a very, very specific structured approach.

Where you have to have context. You have to understand why do you even want to trade that. You know, most traders struggle with discipline because They don't have the patience, but why do they not have the patience and the discipline if they really believe in what they are doing? If you truly believe in your story and the context that you are trading around, you should not have an issue with this.

Nothing else should be tradable. You know, it should be only the the trades that you've understood because you understand the context. You know, for me selling below value, it doesn't make sense. I don't care how good that looks on a short-term chart. You know, it doesn't matter to me. I know I'm waiting for the the sellers to get trapped. I'm I'm waiting for the advantages opportunity on the other side.

You know, so it's it's about being very structured and having a very clear understanding of what you're actually looking for. You know, I only trade grade A trades. I'm not looking for crappy trades.

You know, one of the things as a day trader is that there's too much opportunity. You can trade every five minutes if you like, every two minutes. You know, there is too much opportunity. So for me, you know, funnily enough, you know, you have you heard about the fear of missing out, Aaron? I'm sure you have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the fear of missing out is that it's a key thing that comes up again and again and again. And I say, you know, why have you got a fear of missing out?

I I love missing traits and I'll tell you why. And this is another reframe that I've done through NLP. I love missing trades. The reason is because a lot of the trades are crap. They're not they're not good. They're not good trades. They're shit trades. Okay, I'm only looking for good trades. So why should I be concerned about missing trades that have nothing to do with my plan?

You know, I'm always missing trades. And actually the better I get at missing trades, the better I'm gonna get at f actually finding the good trades. You know, so it's not about missing trades because you've got to miss them all the time. Does that make sense?

Yeah, yeah. So you mentioned something in there which I'm actually keen to bring up with you and that's believing in the plan and believing in what you're trading. Um and it's something you talk about quite a lot. Uh which of course it you know, it makes perfect sense.

But I can see how it would also be very difficult for a trader who has limited experience to do this. So what would you suggest to someone in this scenario who has limited experience who doesn't really have any real reason to believe in what they're doing yet. Yeah, I understand that because with experience you can you can sort of believe in what is actually sort of manifested over time. So I really believe in my

trading opportunities because I've seen them play out so many times. So you know, of course, I started off without any any experience as well. You know, everybody does. But at the same time, there's nothing better than real-time experience and real-time um spent in the marketplace actually trading, you know, to build belief and confidence. That that's just the same, you know, with any business.

Any sport, you know, if you're an athlete, if you've never played the sport before, you're not gonna have a lot of confidence in your ability. So, you know, trading is no different. If you haven't traded a lot, you know, you can't expect to have a lot of confidence in in your skills, your ability, because you know you haven't you haven't proven it to yourself.

You know? So you know that is something that a lot of traders are gonna struggle with. You know, and that's why they they become mindless, they take trades they shouldn't be taking, they lose sight of what they're trying to achieve because They really don't have that experience behind them. So, what you have to do, and this is what I did, you know, that's why I started with stay.

Um I needed a story. I needed something to guide me. I needed something to believe in. You know, I needed to be able to put the market into context. You know the context is key. So you need a story, but at the same time, initially when you read that story, you might not believe it. You know, when I first went into auction market theory,

I had to learn and believe without experience in the fact that most of the time we're gonna find buyers below value. If we have a nice distribution on the profile where we found value. We're trading around it, we should find the buyers below value. Most of the time, not all the time, and the sellers above value. But I have to believe in that without experience. It has to make sense. Whatever you gotta do, it has to make sense.

So for me like trading auction market theory, stage analysis, it's it's it's a common sense approach. I can look at it, it's it's broken down into layman's terms. It makes sense. Like trading around value just makes sense in everyday living. You know, you buy when something is at a lower price. You know, you want to sell it at a higher price. It's it's just common sense. That's what we do every day. So have something that makes sense to you and you can believe it.

Without experience. That's key. So you have to commit yourself firstly to an approach that you believe in just because it makes sense. So if it doesn't make sense, it's gonna be very difficult. Yeah, I I think that's a good way to say it. Yeah. No, that's good. So yeah, I mean you need a story behind the marketplace. So you you want approach with some kind of story that you can believe in. This is the issue for mechanical systematic traders because you know they w they have to believe in setup.

Or signals. Okay, and a setup on a signal is based upon maybe a back test or an indicator telling you what to do. I struggle with that because. I can't trust or believe in a setup or an indicator because it's not coming for me. You know, I got to a point where I actually did sort of look at systematic trading styles, but I would look at a trade.

And think, well, it's telling me to buy it, but I don't believe in buying this market right now. It doesn't make sense. So it becomes difficult for the human being to commit to systematic mechanical styles because we are quite naturally Critical. You know, we will we will we will judge the situation. So as a trader trying to trade mechanically, you know, you have to try to become

emotionless or, you know, not be a human but which is very, very difficult, you know. So in in discretionary trading what we have to do is learn to trade based upon our beliefs, our feelings, what we understand. Yeah. Yeah, I think that really highlights the kind of the two different mindsets that are maybe best suited to each approach. Um

So so when you say auction theory, um you've you've mentioned a few times throughout the episode, um would you mind explaining what this actually refers to? Well like what is what does this term refer to auction theory? Well in its most basic sense, the way that I've understood auction market theory, basically it looks at any market as an auction market.

So just like uh you know you go to a car auction, uh uh a property auction, an art auction, you know, the the these products are being auctioned. So the the price will be advertised higher to see if the buyers are interested. Okay, and if a buyer is interested, we advertise higher again. Yeah. So but we will keep advertising higher prices until the buyers no longer want to buy those.

Right, so that's the auction you know process taking place. But it also works on the downside, you know, the market will keep advertising. the price at lower prices until the sellers give up. Until the sellers say, look, we're we're not interested in selling this low. So that's the auction process in a nutshell. That's it. It's just about understanding the market is an auction process and basically price itself is the advertising.

Price itself is the advanced So price itself has to be put into context.

to really understand if it's a good opportunity. Does that make sense? Yeah, no that's that's good. Um so okay, so more on the discretionary aspect of your trading. Like someone who is completely discretionary How much would you say your success or your your trades, your decisions rely on gut feeling and instinct? Um, I think every trade that I take really has some feeling behind it.

You know, there are a lot of trades which um I have a greater feeling behind. You know, I I think of belief and confidence as feelings, you know. I talk about emotional scales and if you sort of picture in your mind, if you got like a like a balanced scale, Okay? And on one side you have fear, doubt and anxiety. And on the other side you have belief and confidence. Okay, these are the feelings, right? And I always want at least eighty percent belief and confidence in every trade that I can make.

Okay, meaning that there will be some element of fear, doubt, and anxiety because I'm human. So I'm not trying to pretend I'm not human. And I'm not trying to pretend I'm not gonna have fear, anxiety, and doubt. Because I'm taking risks. I'm gonna have anxiety. I'm gonna have fear. I'm gonna have doubt. I'm risking anywhere up to five grand a day. You know, I'm I'm gonna have some doubts, I'm gonna have some fear. I always say I wake up every day with performance anxiety.

It doesn't go away. You know, all this stuff about, you know, working on yourself and becoming emotionless is bullshit. You know, unless you become become an alien that is not human, you're always gonna have feelings, emotions. You can't do anything without Okay, you can't. As as a human being, everything that you do, every choice, decision you make

While she might not be consciously aware of it, has feeling behind it. Because it feels why. It sounds why. You know, because in NLP we learn about the the the auditory senses, the kinesthetic senses. Right, the visual it's not just about seeing things, it's about hearing it and feeling it as well. Feeling is absolutely important if in every choice decision you make.

Right? So it you can't get away from it. You know, every trade is gonna require some kind of feeling behind it. But some trades I will feel a greater sense. you know like a gut feel that it just feels right or it just feels good right but it doesn't mean you know that's that that's not there in the other trades it is but sometimes it's just a bit stronger does that make sense? Okay, sure. No, that's that's well said. So with an approach like this, uh you know, totally discretionary approach.

How would you go about recording and documenting this type of thing, which relies heavily on discretion? Like how do you put that into a trading plan? Okay, well what I do is basically As a discretionary trader you basically have to have uh what I call like a business plan anyway. The trading plan is for me it's it's a little different to a mechanical trader because uh a discretionary trader has to rely on belief. So I break down my beliefs. What do I believe about the market? What do I believe?

Uh makes sense. So I I I will write down things like you know um some notes about auction market theory, uh value trading, why I believe in it, why it makes sense. So it's all it's all about why does it make sense to have this in your plan in the first place? Because that that why will give you the confidence. Because if you understand why

You you you can um you can really believe in that, right? But if you don't understand why you're putting that in your plan, you know it's gonna be very difficult to believe in that setup that opportunity when it presents. So discretionary trading is about understanding the why and also building beliefs about the marketplace, telling yourself a story. But what I do is is build a trading plan every morning. Every day I build a plan.

Now that's what I call a a pre market analysis plan. So it's a pre market plan before the market opens up. But I have an idea of what I'm going to focus on. Then I break it down into what I call pre-engagement vision. So it's before I'm engaged. Okay, so it's a pre-engagement vision based upon a longer time frame chart. So I've got levels.

I've got the areas where I'm potentially going to start looking at shorter time frame charts, order flow. Because I don't look at shorter time frame charts or order flow until I'm in these pre-engagement zones. And then I move to another step in the process. called an engagement zone. So I have an engagement zone which is basically a shorter term setup, a visualization right there in the moment, right in the present moment. I visualize exactly what I need to see on price app.

around this area for me to actually consider getting into the trade and then I break it down to specific prices. Like within this three or four tick price range, that's where I want to read order flow. If we're lifting offers there, I'm gonna get in. You know, if we're s hitting the bids there, if it's a short, I'm gonna get in. So there's n there's a Very specific process that I'll go through. I don't trade setups, I trade my process.

Okay, makes sense. So I'd like to steer this conversation a little bit deeper into NLP because you know we've brought it up a few times uh throughout this interview. Now, could you explain to us maybe not only what this actually stands for, but what is the concept of NLP? Well NLP is basically a study of excellence. So what they decided to do, uh Richard Brandler and uh Grinler, uh they this they they are the uh the the founders of uh NLP. Um basically what they did is study um

You know, people that are very ex you know, they excelled in what they did in life. So they studied people that are very good at what they did and studied Um you know it's basically a study of excellence. So they to try to figure out what these people had in in common that really made them succeed. And as a as a sort of result of that.

they started to come up with these um these concepts of uh um you know states you know shifts in states and also you know your language and how it impacts what you do. Um you know so basically NLP itself was a study of excellence and then it became, you know, specific techniques. So it's broken down into s uh specific scripts and techniques which you learn as a practitioner. So you'll have scripts to deal with phobias, fear, anxiety.

you know all sorts of issues that we have to you know overcome. Now I would also add NLP for me there are specific techniques which I think are good. uh specific techniques which are you know pretty much useless for me. So it's it's a it's very personal I think what will work for one individual versus you know versus another. So um there are specific techniques that I like for traders and I teach them. And but I found that the main thing that really helped me

And I'm just gonna sort of go off topic a little bit from NLP was mindfulness and meditation. So NLP is is working more on a subconscious level, it's working more with with your with your thoughts, your current beliefs, etcetera, your past memories. But uh meditation mindfulness sort of gets beyond that. So uh I think NLP has its has its uses. You know, I would recommend anybody wanting to get into NLP, just Google it, just Google NLP Neurolinguistic Programming.

And you will find a hell of a lot of information behind it. Now I'd done this 10 years ago, so you know then it was very, very new. Um, you know, nobody really even knew what NLP was, but now it's it it's got very popular, you know, they're bringing it into schools. Um a lot of the prop trading firms now are using NLP practitioners to help the uh the the traders.

So I do a lot of work with prop trading firms as well. You know, I help traders with their uh their mindset, their discipline, etc. And I use NLP timeline therapy as well, uh, mindfulness, meditation. So, you know, NLP is just one of the tools that I use and it has specific techniques, scripts that you can use. It's a very in-depth subject though. It really gets it delves deep into how our subconscious, our unconscious mind works.

Does that make sense? Yeah, okay. No, that's really interesting. So I mean The the techniques, I mean you mentioned that some of them have worked for you uh and some haven't. Would you be able to share us with us maybe an example of one that has and how effective that was to your trading results? Yeah, sure. Uh one of my favourite techniques is parts integration.

Um and I was talking about you know different parts of me which started to show up and the more aware you become of yourself as a human being, not not just a trader as a human being in general, you realize that you have different parts within. Sometimes these parts will have common.

With each other. So, for example, you might have a successful trader part. You know, it wants you to do well, it knows your goals, it knows your objectives, it knows you you know have to follow your plan, be disciplined, but then you have this fear part, which is scared about taking risks. Scared, but for good reasons, it's scared. It's it's also trying to protect you. You know, fear and anxiety exist because.

They're not bad things. Like fear is not bad. It exists for a good reason. But it's because you either have doubt of something, it's it's fear of the unknown, you don't know what's gonna happen next, but we're gonna face that every day. We're gonna have fear every day because we always deal with uncertainty. So, fear is something that

Most people see as negative and they think of it as a bad thing. But with NLP, what we do is we go for this specific technique and we bring out these parts. We we bring out the positive part on one hand, the negative part on the other. And then we visualize you know these um the these uh these parts. And we put a colour on them, we put a shape on them, but then we also start to go through what we call um chunking down, and we start going through this uh specific.

process of realizing that this part which which we saw as negative actually has a a higher intention. Like fear itself, the main intention for most people is to protect it's trying to protect them, it's actually trying to look after them. Okay, so it's concern about them as a as a person, as a human being. So fear actually has a positive part. And then when you put that together with the successful trader part that wants you to succeed, you realize that they actually

although they seem like they're they're in conflict, they actually are trying to achieve a very similar goal and they can work together. So what we do with this technique is bring these two parts together because otherwise they're sort of in conflict. So it makes sense if we bring them together and make them realise

And yourself realize that they are part of the greater whole, which is you. Hmm, okay. That's really interesting. Um and I mean, besides NLP, do you experiment with any other methods that also work on an altered level of consciousness?

Yeah, well I got into meditation when I started Kung Fu when I was 13 years old. Um I started to do meditation back then because we just did it as as a part of the you know the class. Um I started to really get more interested in meditation again because my my father passed away when I was just seven years old. So he he was diagnosed at 26 with um motor neuron disease, which is ALS.

Okay, so he used to read a lot of books on meditation and self-development. So um after he passed away I started to really sort of go through these books. I I was just wanted to get into his head what he was reading, what he what he was interested in. Um and so I started to read these books about meditation, you know, opening your chakras, etc. Uh I was probably fifteen, sixteen then. It didn't make much sense to me then, but I started to practice some of the techniques. Um so

Probably when I s when I started to trade I started getting to meditation a little bit but it was on and off. So I was doing it like for a couple of days and I'd skip it for weeks and I'd do it again and I'd skip it again. But from around 2005 for the last 10 years I've pretty much committed to it on a day-to-day basis.

You know, uh f especially the last six years. You know, it's it's without foul I'm gonna meditate every morning and every evening without faul. And that for me has raised my consciousness, my awareness so much that now I almost trade with this awareness from like a third person perspective, it's almost like I'm watching my every move.

You know, so uh and it's amazing you know how much you can really raise your consciousness, your your awareness. And mindfulness does the same thing. It just makes you more and more aware through very simple techniques. So these are things that I think are you know key because most pick traders, and you've probably heard Traders say time and time again, you know, I know what my plan is, I know what I'm supposed to do, but I didn't do it.

You know, and and I see that all the time. I hear that time and time again with traders that I work with. They know what their plan is. You know, it's not because they're not smart. They are smart. They're very smart. Now probably smarter than me, you know, but they are very smart. They know what they've got to do. แล้วไม่ได้แล้วไม่ได้แล้วไม่ได้แล้วไม่ได้แล้ว

I've got to stop doing this. I've got to stop trading outside my plan. You know, my plan is to look for these bigger intraday swings and I'm sitting there scalping for 20, 30 trades a day. You know, so people know what they've got to do. It's not that they don't know, they know they need discipline, they know they need patience. You know that's that's just something that everyone knows, but people can't get it. The reason is because most people

And it's not I don't mean to sort of say this offensively, but most people are mindless. They don't know they're mindless, they don't know that they're subconscious. is really in control, their unconscious is really controlling what they do. It's almost like you know they're living on autopilot. So people come into trading every day, they make mistakes time and time again and they can't break them because

their subconscious, their unconscious is is is much quicker than their conscious thoughts and, you know, their their their beliefs and their opinions, et cetera, coming in. So they're doing things they don't want to do. unconsciously, you know it's automatic. But when you become more mindful, more aware, it doesn't happen instantly. It happens, you know, time if you commit to meditation like for a few months, you start feeling the benefit.

But it's like a you know it's like building a muscle. You have to you have to go to the gym, you know, you have to train your muscle. You have to feed your muscles to see the benefits. So if you don't if you don't meditate and you don't commit to that every day, you're not going to see the benefits. But you know I've seen the benefits and I I trade from a perspective where I sort of watch myself doing everything that I do. Does that make sense?

Okay, so with your like you mentioned there, you're medita you're meditating uh most mornings and evenings. What are you actually doing? Like take us through that meditation process or routine um you could call it. Yeah, I mean there's a number of meditations that I've done over the years. Um I started with guided meditations where you listen to someone actually guiding you through a meditation so they would talk you through the process.

That's a good way to start. Um, but I tend to focus on doing uh a combination of yoga, um it's like breathing exercises. And also uh qi gong, which is a it's basically like a moving meditation. So I like those two techniques, and that every morning I would do like a 15 20 minute meditation.

and uh every evening as well I I would do uh a meditation for like fifteen, twenty minutes. So um I tend to just get into a place or state where I can just be silent and still. You know, uh when I first started meditating You know, you find that your mind wanders. You start thinking about what happened yesterday, what's gonna happen tomorrow. And when I first started meditating,

Uh it was very frustrating because I knew that the objective was to become silent, to become still. But your mind just keeps thinking, it just keeps wandering and you can't stop it. But what I realised that meditation is really about is just raising your awareness of The fact your mind keeps wandering. So you don't have to stop your mind wandering, you just have to become aware of it. So you you become this witness, this observer of the full

And and you know, your mind wandering, trying to think about the past, the future, and you just keep bringing your attention back to the now, the present moment. So it's it's a it's a technique, a process that you go through To practice being in the moment every day in the now. So you do that for 10-15 minutes every day. And because you're training your mind to do that throughout your day, you know, when you're training or doing anything else, you can get there a lot quicker.

Okay. That's really cool. So for anyone who might be interested in Learning more about meditating or even N L P are there any resources that come to mind which which might be helpful for someone who's pretty much has no idea right Yeah, NLP, I'm I think just Google NLP, there's probably a few websites that I could recommend. Um I can't think of any right now'cause it's been a long time since I looked for NLP websites.

Now I did an NLP program with someone called Topha Morrison. I'm not even sure if he still does them. But um, you know, I've got a manual from him, uh Christopher Howard, he used to be uh do NLP programs. Um there is Tad, I think it's Tad James. I think it's Tad James. Uh Tad James, he does timeline therapy and NLP, so you can check him out. Uh their website is called tadjames.com. T-A-D

James.com. Yeah. So that's probably a good website to check out. Um, mindfulness meditation. I would say go to YouTube actually and search mindfulness. John Cabot Zinn, he's he's the guy that really sort of brought mindfulness into the Western world. Uh so just Google or search in YouTube mindfulness and mindfulness meditation. Uh watch some videos by John Capit Zinn if you can. You know, I think he's got some great videos on mindfulness.

Sure. Okay. Cool. Well thanks for sharing those, Cam. Um well this should probably uh Um I've got one more question which I'm pretty keen to ask you, so we'll Ask that and then we'll probably wind things down. So you've been a trading coach for many years now. So do you find there's anything that newer traders are missing or perhaps even just ignoring? Like if they just did X I'd be so much better off. Is there anything that comes to mind? Um I think it just comes down to

Actually for most traders it comes down to trading less. Like most traders that I work with do trade too much. Over trading is a big big thing. I think you know it's raising your awareness. Raising awareness and mindset is so important. It's key. It doesn't matter how good your strategy is. The mindset is very, very important. You know, if you're mindless and you're trading outside the strategy, it doesn't matter what strategy you trade, you're gonna have the same issue.

So I think you know the key thing is always gonna be psychology and developing your mindset, but actually doing something about it rather than just knowing you need to be more disciplined and patient. So that's a that's a key thing I would say to anybody really, that's what you've got to focus on. Most people know it, but actually do something. Commit Be disciplined to do it. You know, I often say discipline is a lifestyle because you know don't expect to be a disciplined trader.

If you're not disciplined in life, you know, if you're waking up, if you're waking up late every day, if you can't attend meetings on time, you can't stick to a diet or an exercise plan, practice discipline in other areas of life. Like commit to a diet plan, you know, an exercise plan.

Commit to um going to the gym three or four times a week. You know, if you could commit to things like that, you will become a disciplined person. So it's not about becoming a disciplined trader, it's about becoming a disciplined human being.

Yeah, that's a great answer, Cam, and great answers throughout. So thank you very much for coming on and being a phenomenal guest. This has been really good, so thank you very much. Yeah, it's been great, it's been fantastic. Excellent. So do you want to share with listeners where they can go to find out more about you and where they can also connect with you? Yeah, sure. Um I've got a website called the TradingFramework.com.

So you can go there, you can find out more about the trading framework itself. There's lots of free videos there under the archive. I I post up free pre-market analysis there pretty much every day. So yeah, check that out. There's lots of stuff on there. And you know, if you've got any questions, just drop me an email uh on infothetrading framework dot com. Okay. And what's your Twitter? L2 S T I nearly forgot then. L2 S T add to L2ST.

Cool, cool. Okay. Well, everything that has been all the resources, um, and a recap on this uh episode can be found at chatwithraders dot com forward slash forty one as well as all the links uh Cam just mentioned there, so Uh yeah, everything can be found in one place there if that's easier for you. All right, Cam, well thank you very much again for doing this. It's been a pleasure speaking with you. So um take care and let's speak soon. Thank you, Alan. Have a good day.

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