Vol. 7: Antoine Walker

Next thing you know, I'm down a million dollars. People didn't know my story. People thought are gambled my money away party. And I did gamble the party, but that wasn't the reason I lost my fortune. My mom, she told me she still drives by the house. You know what I mean. But you know what, that's okay, that's okay. Welcome to Charges. I'm your host, Rex Chapman. Today on the show, we talked with a guy who had it

all and then lost at all all of it. Our guest today has been crowned an NBA champion with the Miami Heat and an n C double A champion with My Kentucky Wildcats. While in the League, he became a three time All Star and the guy who once responded to the question why do you shoot so many threes by saying because there are no fours? Employee number eight, Antoine Walker. Antoine, thanks Bro, thanks for coming on man, thanks for having on the show. Rex. I've been knowing

you for a long time. Uh, the first time I remember seeing you. And I don't know if you remember this, Antoine, but myself, Kenny Walker, and Jamal Mashburn, we're all back playing in the summer in Lexington and you came in and you were really highly regarded, but we had never

seen you before. We didn't know anything about you, and we're all playing in the NBA by now, and but we were over there to hoop at Memorial Colisey and you walked in the gym and uh, you know, because you had kind of been compared to Jamal Mashburn at the time, and we were kind of checking you out, and you walked over to where we were, but we

were talking about Glenn Robinson, big Dog. Glenn Robinson had just declared for the draft, and you walked up to us and you're seventeen and fresh out of high school and you heard that. We were talking about big Dog leaving school and you said, Glenn Robinson left. He going to the NBA, and we said yeah, and you just real matter of fact, he said, oh, so player of the Year is wide open. You hadn't even played a college game. You hadn't played a second. We hadn't even

played with you in the pickup game yet. I mean, where does that confidence come from? Man? Man? You there was the days when Um, I was a skinny little kid, very cocky in the south side of the Cargo, and it just came natural. Man. That was like one of my biggest things. I think that helped me actually get to the NBA. But I was just a very confident individual.

But why it just that's the way I was. I come from a trash talking you know, south side Kiss where I grew up against the guys I played against, and it was just so much trash talking. So that's how we motivated each other. It was just a certain confidence in order that I had about myself when I came in there, didn't know nothing, but um I got humble real quickly, you know. But it definitely was. I was definitely a very confident individual. Tell me about your childhood.

You're the oldest of six raised by a single mom, you know, tell me about that experience. Yeah, just like you said, I'm the oldest of six raised by you know, my mom. Um fox boys, two girls had to grow fast. My mother had me at the very young age, so I had to assume the responsibility of helping out a ton um. Really raised by my grandmother who was very hard on me. Just been there in UM focused on school. And people don't understand my upbringing is a little bit different.

I'm probably one of the few kids that was in the inner city that actually went to UM Catholic private school. UM. Yeah, and that and and actually elementary and in high school. How did that happen? I don't know. Through the grades of God. My mom, for some of my reason, she felt like the Chicago public school system was not very good. I really could not afford to go to Catholic private school. UM. In the elementary school, she figured it out and bit the bullet and got me through it. And then in

high school. UM, it was one of the situations where I got finial ad scholarship kind of thing. Yeah. But a funny story is that I graduated and everything, but obviously I got my transcripts, but I owed the school like seven eight grand when I graduated, so I actually didn't get my physical diploma. So I went pro, came

back and wrote in my check. Yeah. So yeah, Mom was very appreciatives, uh, to my mom and and kind of sheltering me and not making me go to public school where it's more ganging, drug related so it's very difficult to get through. And she allowed me to be a kid and to play sports at a very very high level and and that probably saved me and gave me an opportunity to make it to the league. So always very appreciative of that. And I know I jumped

the story around, but the rest is history. That's the growing up in Chicago for me that led me to Kentucky. I talked to Rick about you recently, coach p and he he told a story. He said. We asked him if any players ever really got to him, you know, uh, during practices or whatever. He said, no, nobody really. He said, Antoine. Antoine,

he said, one time, Uh, Antoine. He said, he came over to me during practice and we had a really good team, really deep team, and he said, Antoine came over to me and said, coach, you better take him off of me, because I'm gonna ruin his confidence. He said. It just made him start laughing, you know, and Rick is pretty serious during practice, right, Oh, no question, no question about it's going to three second remating. All right.

So you win the title and then you enter the draft. Uh, just after your sophomore year draft, You're drafted by the legendary Boston Celtics. What did that day mean to you? It meant everything, um, and it's kind of weird. Through my draft process, I worked out from the second pick to the level pick, and these are some self workouts, you know, um, things I've never done before. And the

Celtics was my easiest workout. It was crazy because I came in and I probably know I was other workouts for two and a half hours, um, you know, doing all these drills and doing all the stuff, and I going to the Celtics. I'm on the court probably thirty forty minutes. But the my meeting was at this time, mL car was the head coach and gim but the assistant coach was Dennis Johnson, Casey Jones. You had Maxwell, Tommy Heights, and Joe Joe White, Larry Bird was still

a part of the thing. Read all back was around. I mean, this is the people that were in my my meeting. So I was overwhelmed, you know, growing up being a huge basketball so I was overwhelmed. So I didn't really know that they really liked me like that. I didn't know how to take that because just the length of time that I was there and there a draft, Um, they moved up to six because they didn't feel like I was gonna make it. Um, I kind of gotta guarantee.

My agent kind of was like, you're not going past New Jersey at eight, and they moved up and took me, and I couldn't been more UM prouder or excited about going to a story franchise UM like the Boston Celtis. And it was perfect for me because they were in the rebuildings stage so I can be a part of the rebirth in the gaming opportunity to play a ton of minutes and be a part of some special So I couldn't ask for a better situation, UM, coming out of school and it just worked out perfectly for me.

UM couldn't couldn't write the storybook, No, no better than that. But being a part of that organization UM is second and none. I still to this day consider the Boston my second home. I mean to get drafted, their play eight years of my career there, um, so I still considered at that my second home. Yeah, I remember, you know, of course I was in Phoenix when you came out, So I was playing against you guys, and you guys

were you were. You were terrible right there at the at the beginning, and we had a good team, you know, out in Phoenix. But tell me about those years in Boston. What were some of the highs and lows that stand out for you? It wasn't easy in the beginning, as you said. Uh, and even after Paul was drafted, what were those years like Paul Pierce? Uh, they were tough because the expectations in UM in Boston are a little different UM than in some places. UM to sports town.

People that are very engaged into the team and everything that you have going on. So it was great for me as far as basketball because it forced me to work and want to win and learn how to win. The best thing that happened to me was coach coming. I think after the first year Rick made the All Star team. Yeah, coach Patino coming over and making the All Star team. Want them had a lot of success. Obviously,

we didn't have a ton of team success. Um, coach got a little impatient and kind of ran through our roster and didn't really give guys time to develop. We traded Chauncey Bill. It's not the fourth and one game. Yeah, so we didn't really get a chance to develop. But um, the time of Boston was great because we were able to make a run, get back to being a playoff team, and then we made it, made a legitimate run to the Eastern Conference finals. Didn't end the way I wanted to. Um,

you're a guy that you play with. I don't know if you coach you or you played with you. It was a both. Danny ain't I played against Danny and then he coached me. Yeah yeah, okay, yeah I figured that. Um. But yeah, Danny came in and which was fine. He came in with a different agenda. You know how this is Rex and you you've been in the front office of teams, and I wasn't his guy. Um, I wasn't a guy that he felt like he could continue to

build around. So I was a little heartbroken to get traded because I felt like we were right at that time in the Eastern Conference. We were one or two best teams in the Eastern Conference, probably missing a traditional point guard to kind of get us over the hump. But um, he decided to go a different direction and they did that, and I actually end up coming back and being a part of another good team that we got upset in the first round of the playoffs against Indiana.

I think Reggie Miller's last year, thinking two thousand and five, I think it was Danny, by the way, Danny Angel loved really loves you. He I talked to him about Danny. Danny said, Antoine was a great player. He said, he got on the wrong side of one of your favorite coaches, Dick Harder. Dick Harder coached me when I was in Charlotte and Rest in Peace coach Harder. But I couldn't stand the Harder. I was a young player, none of none of us could stand him. But it just so

you know, that's what he said. I also want to read you something that Rick said, uh, because I I wanted to know from Rick what his opinion of you was as a player. And he said, Antoine Wow. Extremely talented and really knew the game. People would be surprised with his basketball acumen. Highly competitive and loved the game. Also asked him about the game opener we beat defending champ Chicago and Jordan was yelling down the hall at him about him doing the shimmy dance. You remember that,

what kind of Celtic team is this? Why did you have to look at it and say it's the youngest team in the last ten years. They only averaged two

point three years of experience. This steam Dick will get better as the season goes on, and he'll be with all of that, we still have Michael Jordan's two on to Randy Brown controlling and the Walker and courses the turner over four and three rolls night my party, Walker to the basket and the turnover had a three point opportunity, and Rick Portino Celtics and leading seventy nine sixty seven. Antoine Walker with twenty nine points is the game's high score.

He has ten more that Michael Georgian does. It just me my first game and people, you mean, you gotta understand from Chicago. So the first three championships, I was a fan, right like I'm like a huge fan. Michael retires, comes back, I come in. I play against the next three championship teams. I mean we went one knee eleven. So we opened up in ninety six against uh uh ninety a. Sorry against the Bulls got him the first game. Scottie sitting out for the contract situation. Scotty's sitting out.

We catch Michael. I think I had like thirty had a huge night opening. I'm shamming. I'm dancing everywhere. How you hear that hour, I'm gonna stop all that dance. I'm gonna stop all that dance. I'm gonna stop all that dance. That's how you hear Michael telling me that Louibho. We don't never beat him again. But I went one eleven and three years against Michael. Uma was incredible. Incredible, man, incredible. That's so great. From six to two thousand and three,

Antoine Walker was a bona fide star for Boston. He made the All Star team in two thousand two and two thousand three. The Celtics had made the Eastern Conference finals in two thousand two, but in two thousand three they barely made the playoffs and were swept in round one. During the summer of two thousand three, Boston dealt Antoine to Dallas. The next offseason, he was traded to Atlanta.

Midway through the OH four oh five season. Boston realized it was time to bring Antoine home for the playoff run. It turned out to be the right decision. The Celtics got hot and earned the three seed in the East, but we're upset by a Pacers team featuring run Artest, Stephen Jackson, Jermaine O'Neill, and Reggie Miller. Antoine was up for free agency that summer, and his services were about to be far from free. Free agency market came. Danny wasn't willing to pay what I wanted on the market.

We negotiated, went back and forth for a long time, and nothing could happen. And then the Miami Heat situation came. So when I get the call from Pat and he's telling me, you know, he couldn't the money wasn't gonna be while I wanted to be in kind of breaks down the situation to me. Uh, he said, if you can get Boston to do a sign and trade, take some money back. And you gotta remember the Miami Heat were coming off the Eastern Conference Championship against the Detroit Pistons.

They had just it was the first year with shack Um, it was gonna be the second year with Shock, and they were championship trying to get to the championship. So I'm like, man, I would love to have this opportunit because I started looking at the roster, I'm like, I've never been in a championship contender. I've never played with a guy like Shock and Alonzo Morning and d Wade, so this could be a great opportunity for me. Danny did not want to take any money back with you,

was surprising. So I called an owner. I called Wick, I called Gross Back and I'll said, listen, I've done a lot for this organization. Um, you know you guys do not want me. You're gonna go in a different direction, you know, Can you guys do a sign and trade and allow me to go continue my career. And they figured it out and that's how thirteen players got involved.

So it got to be a lot of mumble jumble guys making eight hundred, nine hundred thousands desided to be a lot of So that's how the trade got so large. Because Boss, they really did not want to take any money back. You know, Lord behold, they get it done. Now we get another roadblock. Shack was up, so Shot could have took He was grandfather then, so Shot could have took his bird rights three for ninety and at that time, thirty millions a year was heard of in

the NBA. Besides what Michael didn't so call Shock and obviously you know I know Shock. We're not best friends, um, And I said, hey, big fellow, I want to come down and play with you and help you get this championship. You know, he had this thing with Kobe going on at the time that he wanted to get one by himself, and and he was like, look, Pat was like getting to take five years for a hundred and we can

work it out. Shock did it, Um, Shock took the five years hunted and you can look at the paperwork. I signed it like a six year, fifty two million dollar deal. I deigned a six year deal to make it work. Then, you know, six year deals were unheard of at that time. So I ended up taking sign a six year deal with them and and all that, and then we hit another roadblock. We get to the physical they cleared me. Then they come back and said, well, you got some author rities you may not be able

to fill six years. So now the last two years. They don't want to guarantee the last two years. And we're in a twelfth hour, like I got like six hours to make a decision or the dealers tore up. Everything goes back and it was August, and you know, you get thirty days into a free agency, like I'm like, yo,

so I just signed the deal. Pap you know, made some promises that hey, we went it all, will figure this thing out, making a great owner, and we went on with the deal, but everything went of courting the playing. I mean, it was unbelievable, and you know I talked about the team Kamarati with the Wildcasts, but for the what the heat was unbelievable. We had to stay fifteen strong, and you know this rex be in the league. It's very hard to find six seven guys out to dinner.

But we had that type of team. We were so close. We hung together, we partied together, and I always tell people about my time Miami. I never partied and played basketball like this in my life. But I was sold because we were talking about win the championship. It was something I never did. He sold me on being a six man of the year you do some other things.

So the first twenty games, I came off the bench and we were tenanten Shock missed the first few games with injury, and Pat just I wouldn't say panicked, but he came down. He felt like he had to come down. He fired stand. In my first meeting with Pat, he was like, you're starting. He was like, you're starting at the three. He said, you are best passer. You're gonna put you throw in the post. He said, I'm gonna get you out early. And you know, with the second

unit to be your time. But this first unit, I want you to spot up, get the ball in the big fella and play off. D wait in shock, but I played my money and you know how rous is. He's like, and that's how it's gonna go. If you're dud, don't want right, this is getting start out. Are you gonna be the foul Terry puts up? They look when the first championship in franchise history, Well, you know what happens next. You know how we eventually you know do

this on charges. I shared my story about after my career, you know, addiction to painkillers, alcohol, gambling. Uh threw me down in a downward spiral, you know, twine Uh, and I lost everything as well. Just a little history to my story. A lot of people think, you know, at that time, I had a gambling situation that took place in Vegas and you know this rext one time. So I used to train in Vegas. At this point, I

kind of transition. They should train in Chicago. I transitioned from Tim Grover and I suhould go out to Vegas because, um, they just have a training facility. I used to like the on court stuff. So I would stay out there probably like five weeks. Usually stay with a bunch of guys Kevin Garner, t lou Chauncey Billups. This is kind of their training facility where they used to train that. So I used to go out there. Should be like thirty or forty pro So we work out twice a

day like any other time. But at night we're in Vegas. So we're in Vegas or whatever. We'll go to the casino. All of us go to the casino, hang out and do that. First time you ever gambled and do you feel like you ever had an addictive personality. No, because I really didn't pick it up. I was like, ut forty minute, I like to hit and run. I wasn't a guy that sit there at for hours. Yeah. I was just like just like you did on the court. Yeah. I never was a guy that like sit there for six, seven,

eight nine hours and just play. Um. So I would just say I was more like, let me just hit it run, hit and run. And then I didn't really gamble heavy, um until I was like in Vegas. Vegas was my thing. Um, I would say as addictive, yeah, because you know I'm competitive, So you know what I mean. And um, I don't know if you did this, but you know, once I filed bankruptcy, so my stuff went deep. I looked at they went through and found so I

was I won four million and lost four million. So I don't know how you mathematically create that, because you know, you know how it is. You can you know what I mean. I still have tax issues from my stuff. I'm telling you listen, Vegas All Star Weekend next, I want eight hundred thousand. I didn't lose a bet All Star Weekend in Vegas in two thousand seven, but then

the following year I come back and lose that million. Yeah, so I would, of course I would say it played a part, but it's kind of hard to you know, it's just different time ins and how it goes. But it was actually crazy to get those numbers when they did the audience and they had to go through the books because you know, Vegas obviously no Vegas got your play down today. Yeah to the PENNI yeah to the penny.

When you're an active or retired world famous athlete with millions of dollars in the bank in a city such as Las Vegas, the world and blackjack table can be your buffet. Problem is, and I know from experience the house always wins. That's why these casinos are willing to give out six figure markers a k A. I O used too high rollers because they damn well, no, you will owe them in the end. So this particular summer was a bad summer. I end up got competitive, end

up staying out that five six weeks. Next thing, you know, I'm down a million dollars. When you say you got competitive, you're saying you started chasing it. You started chasing the law. So you know, yeah, look look down a hunt down a hunter, go get another market for a hunter. You know, I'm a big player of season, so my credit lines a half a million and I probably can get up to seven fifty. So I'm playing every day whatever, and you know, by the time i leave for the trip,

all a million dollars. I'm pissed at myself and I'm like, you know what, I'm done. I'm done with the markets. I'm gonna figure this out. I'm gonna pay them back that money. And end up bumping into a guy out there that I've been knowing, and he was like, listening to one, you probably can get off the books for six hundred thousand, you know, say yourself full hunted, but you're gonna have to give your credit line and all that stuff. So I went to the casino said, listen,

I'm looking for a payment plan. I'm trying to, you know, going back out of this. And the casino was fine um at that time, but they tried to handcuff me. They wanted me to pay a hunter grand of mine and I'm like, I'm not gonna do that. So it just got a little hand. So we get into negotiations. Were just gonna let the court system figure it out,

and the whole thing. So in the process I tell that story to say, in the process of me dealing with that one situation in Vegas, you know, at the forty five days legally they can go and it's your warrant. And at this time I'm playing in the Centurion Classic, which is hosted by Seasons. This is the termament that everybody got to see Charles Barker's horrible swing. Right. Yeah, So this is my fourth fifth year. I'm planning it. So I go out there that you particular year and

get off the plane. I get a phone call from my mom and she's like, you all over the news. You old Vegas, this money. They got a war on for your arrest. I said, well, I'm in Nevada, saying, ain't nobody here. Nobody's bothered me in. Nobody came up to me, No police came up to me. Called my lawyer, figured out what was going on. So my lawyer tells me, hey, listen, you got any money to make a payment. I'm like, yeah,

I got some money making payment. He was like, look, enjoy your trip, um, but when you leave there, you leave Tahoe, fly out of Vegas, and we're gonna make a payment, and then we get this thing squad away. I'm like, all right, no problem. So I took the public embarrassment for two days and people looking at me crazy and like they thought I was aggressive. And then my second day at night, I'm at the bar, so

I can't gamble. So now I'm just in party mode, golf party mode, and the police come up to me and was like, hey, look, we gotta take you in. We gotta warrant for your arrest. Like what I say, We're gonna deal with that, and I'm trying to figure it out. But it's like three in the morning and I'm probably like ten vodkas in and I'm like okay. So I go to the jail and the police officers department was great. They didn't arrest me. There's like, listen, we know us late. Get in touch with your people

in the morning. You know you gotta make something happen and we're gonna have to rest you. So we figured this whole thing out and end up making the payment there on the spot. So get him a hundred and thirty five thousand, had it wired over to them. They let me out, so never did any jail time, and those are just a few hours there waiting to get this money get over to him take care of that situation. But in the process of me going through that, the

real estate market had crashed. People that know and that we're in that fielding two thousand seven, eight nine, we went through a recession. But part of the biggest part of my portfolio was in real estate pretty much like six of my money was in real estate on a hundred and fifty properties in the city of Chicago. I was welden out and commercial rehab rental, you name it. I was involved. UM. I had a business partner that

was running it on a day day basis. UM end up having his own legal troubles and never told me and I did what know some of us athletes do sometime we trust the wrong people. Though he hasn't played an NBA game since two thousand eight, Walker is still spending plenty of time around courts. Lenders have filed foreclosure actions against at least fourteen of his investment properties, which

include houses, condos, and apartment complexes. He entrusted a man named Fred Billings to run his portfolio of properties under billing stewardship. Mortgages were not paid. Buildings were not repaired, and many became uninhabitable. Billings is out on bond after being arrested for running a mortgage scam. He faces felony charges of fraud, forgery, and theft. Walker already owes the city of Chicago nearly a million dollars in court ordered

fines for running his buildings into the ground. How much of your finances were you aware of? Because I knew I had money, but other people were handling it. How involved were you? I was involved enough where I knew where I was at financially. When was the first time you felt rich? Probably when I was ninety nine when I signed my max still, but I didn't have any money before that, not to they now, because I knew I had seventy one million dollars I was gonna make

over the next five six years. But that was probably the first time. The only reason I say that, I think that just a little small education to what And that's a great question that you asked me. When I came in the league, I was a six pick um. I signed a three year, five point five million dollar contract. First year I made one six, second year one eight, the third year two point one. People don't understand after taxes living in Boston, you do, but most people don't understand.

I bought my mom and half a million dollar home. I bought me a condo for like two fifty three hundred thousand. You gotta furnish it, a couple of cars. I'm the old this, I'm taking care of things. So my first year, technically I'm in debt. Like the first thing that that shocked me was taxes. I'm with you. I had no financial intelligence or background at all, so it just the process for me, and it took a

while for me to get a hang of it. And the first couple of years were rocky because obviously I wasn't making that much and I want to do so much for family and friends and and take everybody on this journey, this ride be in the league, and you know, and fortunate enough, you know, my third year, I was able to sign a max contract and able to do some of the things I wanted to do, build my mom my home from the ground up, and just a lot of things that I had promised that I wanted

to do once I was able to make it to the league. So those things were there, and I'll be the first I live a very expensive lifestyle, very materialistic. I used to have at points eight nine cars at one time. UM, a lot of jury. I was a watch guy. Um, I was really into watches at that time. When I came into league read and you know that we had little dress codes and you know what I mean, So we have to put clothes on. So we talked about so you know, yeah, so, um, I'm in my

first year in Boston. We had to wear suits on the plane. We can't we have to wear a tie, but you have to have a suit on on. So I ended up spending a ton of money on clothes with different clothes designers, and so I had some fetishes on my own. Besides, my family had two kids. I was not married, so obviously that was automatic child support, so you got that. And then I had an entourage. You know, I would travel with seven eight guys, but

not guys that I picked up out the street. These are guys that were in the ground with me every day, that that I grew up with, and and I took them on this ride with me. And you're basically you're footing the bill though, right, you're footing most of the Yeah, yeah, taking care of them and helping them out and in different situations. So I had a pretty you know, expensive group that you know that I was doing. Explain, explained, Antoine,

if you wouldn't mind explained to listeners. You know what it's like being a multi millionaire and a professional athlete who and you're an all star, you know, at the height of your NBA popularity. What it's Can you explain to people what that's like? Did you ever physically see the money you had a mass in the bank or did it feel kind of like funny money to you? Well? You you get anything you wanted you basically, and that's the one thing that I tell you. You set your

lifestyle up. What's that like? Going from having nothing? You know, you're at Kentucky, you know, you're a kid from Chicago, to overnight literally overnight having everything. What is that like? I know a little bit, But what's it like? What was it like for you? For me, it was the best thing that could have ever happened. I mean, and people don't understand it until you actually understand what financial

situation you're going through. To see my mom struggling, to see me not be able to you know, pay you to get my diploma. Uh, to see my mom on on welfare and and you you see those things. We move six seven times, just all those things and then to finally make it and to put stability there. Always tell them the biggest thing is my little presdom. Now everybody has their own room. You don't have to share bedrooms. Everybody got their own bed you know, you get a

house for six bedrooms. Now, Um, it's different. I mean it's a different feeling and it makes you feel special as a player. Um, it's something that you dream about to be able to take care of your family, and you roll with it. You don't think about the end. All you can think about is living in that moment and now. And you we created and build these lifestyles that we think that will never end. And that's the

way I wrote. And in the process of doing that, obviously I was doing stocks and bonds and have my financial guy doing that. But I got seven years in

I wanted to do something else. The real estate markets were really good at the time, so for four years I was heavily involved making good money in the real estate market, trying to establish myself as a businessman off the court and trusted in someone else and we all as athletes or sometimes does this and trusting people that we shouldn't have and no nobody to blame for that

but myself, but trust someone. He ended up going through some personal problems of his own and end up actually doing real jail time at the time that I was going through my process. So in the process of me trying to figure out what's going on with my money and what finance position I'm gonna be in, the person who had the answers to that was on his way to jail and actually did five years in the rect The one thing that bothered me the most about my story was that, um people never ever give you an

opportunity to explain. So when the vegan situation hit national TV and then on the flip side of the hand, ah, you have a financial troubles, they equate that immediately to gambling. I'm not saying that didn't like the gambling. I wasn't an aggressive gambler, but it never put me in the financial strength. And I told a story earlier while I was telling you about that one time. That was the one time where I got out of control for me,

where I got really competitive. Any other time it would be one of those situations, not saying it's peanuts, it will be a twenty or thirty thousand dollar loss. So that was for me that that wasn't the reason for me filing bankrupts. So when I went through this whole bankruptcy process, and obviously is my first time going through it, and I looked at it and I'm like, Okay, I got the biggest firm I could find in Florida at

this time. On my Florida residents, If anybody know anything about bankruptcy, Florida is the best place to file bankruptcy um or it's one of the best places. I wouldn't say it's the best place. And we just went through everything, and at this time, and you asked me this question, I thought I was gonna play for four or five more years. I really thought. And when I made that decision to file bankruptcy and take Chapter seven bankruptcy, which was gonna get me debt free, I decided to. I said,

lest you know what, I can go debt free. So I had about with assets and liquid cash, I probably was sitting on about twenty million dollars, but I owe twenty million, maybe a little bit over that, and I was like, you know what. They gave me a couple of different options, and they was like, look, if you're go and play and you think you can play four or five years, you should go debt free. And then if you make you another four or five million, you know.

I think the league minimum at that time had been pushed up to Lisa mill So I was like, at Warrist case scenario, I'll be playing for the league minimum, and um, I chased it. Man, I worked my butt off, and it's a funny story. So I called coach Patino. I said, Coach, I need to get a shape. So I've been sitting around um down and he told me to come to Louisville. So nas had a place down there, or he got me apartment. I think he got me

an apartment and left me one of his cars. He's like, you don't even gotta drive to bring one of your cars. So he left me a car and for six months I stayed in Louisville. I didn't much. I stayed in Louisville, lost thirty pounds. I was so happy coach took a personal approach um and stayed there with me, work me out majority of the time. Um, he was going through something with his situation with his wife and you know, the infidelity that he had going on. So we were

you know, I was going through my things. So we really bonded and got to the best shape that I can get into. At this time, I'm I think I'm like thirty one thirty two. I knocked off thirty pounds. Um. So I went to Charlotte. Obviously you've heard the stories of me and Michael having a relationship and everything. Um. Larry Brown was the head coach up there. Nazi was on the team and it was the summertime workout, like September,

guys are getting ready for camp. He was like, man, just come up here, play with us for two weeks, trained with us. So I stayed up there two weeks, playing hard. Larry Brown's there every day. He's he's actually coaching the pickup games, you know, exactly, like you know what I mean, Yeah, you know, it's like coaching the pickup games. Anyway, I think I played great. So all I want at this time, Rex, all I'm looking for is an opportunity. Let me go to training camp. Let

me playing three or four preseason games. Let me show people I'm in shape. Let me just you know, get out there. That day came called Michael, called Larry. Michael tell him that Larry wanted to go with Darius Mouse was down there. He wanted to go with the younger Darius Mouse. And that crushed me. That like took the

zap out of me. Like it crushed me. Um that I and I couldn't understand why I couldn't get into somebody's training camp, that I couldn't even get an invite to be one of the twenty guys even if I got cut you know a weekend. I just it was a black cloud that had been tanked. It was. It was a situation where I felt like, um, people didn't know my story. People thought I was you know, I gambled my money away party and at their gamba of their party. But that wasn't the reason I lost my fortunes.

And besides acting me and really figuring it out, they went with that and they created a black cloud over my head. That's what I think. Do I know that for sure? Obviously No, I'm not behind in these front office and closed doors. And it came up that it was over with. I was like, you know what, twine is over I'm not going to get a call up. Nothing's gonna happen for me basketball wise. It's time to try to figure this thing out and do something else.

I wasn't committed to stand in the protic shape that was going to be needed to play at the professional level, and I just said, no what, I'm gonna go ahead and call it and and that's what I did. For professional athletes, competition is king on and off the clock, even when it's all over. Antoine's career earnings were one hundred and ten million dollars. Antoine has always had a big personality, but as you can tell, an even bigger heart for those he loves. They say father time is undefeated.

But for some athletes who make waves, even if they have more wind in their sales front offices league wide can put them out to sea, into open waters. When did you know I'm in trouble? You know when it came to money? When did you know? And how long was it before the rest of the world started to find out? Um? For me, UM at the meeting with UM the bankruptcy people and telling me what I would have to do and breaking down my situation. UM, I knew I was gonna be in trouble, but I'm gonna

go back to it. I always thought rex I was gonna play more. I never thought that I was not going to get back on the basketball court. I never thought that. And that probably was the biggest thing. If I would have took that approach, I probably could have did a few things, probably still had to file bankruptcy. But what year was this, Twine? What year was that? Two thousand and ten? Okay, So it just was one of those things where I had to really you know,

I evaluated and thought about it. I was like, Okay, I'm gonna play again. I have opportunity to put some money up. Um. Everything was out my system at this time. I was humbled. Uh you know, I had to because after my Gamut situation, part of my deal was that I don't get with the casinos no more, you know, So that was part of my deal. So all that stuff was like out my system. I was moving forward

in different directions. So I'm like, yeah, if I can go steal me three four more years, right, you know, you know, I mean, I I'm with you. I'm with you. It's such a hard feeling because and I was way too old to go back and play. That was you know part of it. You know. I was like, but I can I can understand. You were still a young man at that point, Twine. Yeah, so I'm thinking, like, you know, I'm gonna get there, play me a few more.

Hey cut down a little bit of my lifestyle. When I went through the bankruptcy, I was able to get rid of some things and move some things around. And and a lot of people don't understand when you found bankruptcy, you can keep everything if you really if you can figure out a way to hey it, you know what I mean. And people don't understand that. Your creditors are usually like, okay, you file bankruptcy, can you still paying this car note? You know? You know, so people do

understand that having the house, can you still pay this mortgage? No, they're not gonna take you don't have to move out your house, but can you pay for the upkeep of this place? And can you pay the taxes and all that stuff. So that was all the process and going through that at that time, Antoine, as a dad, you know, I want to ask you something, uh, someone who's been to jail for stealing in an Apple store to pay

for my habits. I understand shame. Um. You know when stories came out that you owe this money child support and your daughter can't go to school, the school that she's been going to since she was little, because you can't afford the tuition. A guy who's made over a hundred million dollars in ten years is at the lowest point in your life? And if not, what was and

how did you deal with that? Antoine? It was very disappointed that it was one of the low points because I had did so much financially for my daughter prior to that, and it was a bad relationship between me and her mom um that drove up to that. And sometimes people, um don't get it, and I think at that time she didn't get it. She was very content and getting that money every month, and now the denomination changes and now you're not gonna get that, and it's

the blame game. And it became that point, and it did become very serious, and I had to go talk to the school. My daughter had been in private school a whole life, and it wasn't the fact that told the move. I told the school. I said, listen, um, part of my child support agreement is to pay for her to go to the school I can't afford to pay to her go to school, and you know, we're

gonna try to figure out something different. Um wasn't that, And my daughter was very smart and still was a bunch of other good schools that she could go to. But that is a disappointing thing, because you do want your kids to go to the best school possible. But UM, I was more disappointed that me and my baby mother at the time couldn't figure this out, and we took

it public. The Lord's point in my life was, UM, I built my mom a home from the ground up, four million dollars UM, fifteen thousand square feet UM, indoor pool. I think it was twelve thirteen bedrooms. And when I found my bankruptcy, I had an option to keep any home I wanted. I was gonna be able to afford to pay one mortgage, and my mom told me to keep my place and told me to let hers go. And I was like, no, I'll just live with you, and she said no, She said, you worked too, you

don't need to live with me. She said, we're downsize. And that probably was the Lord's point, because that was my my dream to build her home from the ground up and I let her sit with the architect. I had nothing to do with none of the designs. I just opened the checkbook and get a a she want And that was one of my proudest moments of my life. And when it came down the bankruptcy and the upkeeping.

You can imagine the upkeep on the fifteen thousand square for home, the taxes Morgeson, she just was like, let it go. It's crazy. And I shared the story. That's a really more occurrent story. And you know, sometimes you don't talk to your mom. And everything has been great. I mean, she's in great spirits, but during the pandemic, you know, some emotions hit. She was down a little bit and she hurt me because she told me she

still drives by the house. You know what, But you know what, that's okay, that's okay, No, not a sense that that not the fact that she hurt me personally. But I'm just saying that feeling comes up again. I know, I know, how do you take care of your mental health? You know what. I've been very fortunate. A couple of people looked out and you probably never saw. I filmed the documentary I know about it. Yeah, I filmed the documentary and I think that was the the best thing

for me. And you know what was great about the documentary is I had my family and friends and people that have been in my circle and just to see them. I wasn't in the interviews, but to see the interviews, to see how they feel about you, to see what they think the head of them. And I'm not for sure if you know, um, but this was my first year. I got an opportunity to do all the financial literacy

for the league. That's great. That was my goal, my dream to be able to turn my negative story into a positive story or to be kind of a learning tool for these young guys. And the opportunity presented itself and I we had did twenty six other thirty teams prior to the world shutting down. Um, but I ain't gona lie to you, Rex. That was like the best thing for me to be one back in front of my peers talk and sharing my story with the guys.

Um having that interaction again, being around the guys, I mean, traveling to all the cities, like I felt like I was back a part of it, you know what I'm saying. I felt like I was back a part of it, and we also um during the pandemic, we did the zoom, so we we kept it going. UM. I was a big part of that, and I was brought in by the Players Association, and that's what made even more special. I'm with you, man, I was very similar, you know,

because I do a lot of the drug stuff. And James Jones, you know James you played against James uh, he's the GM of the Sons now. A couple of years ago we were talking and I had, you know, been through some you know, real troubles and kind of felt like I was toxic. People didn't want to, you know, have much to do with me. And and I started doing NBA TV again, and I started doing Kentucky basketball again, and I saw these people that were welcoming me back in.

And he turned to me one time and he said, look, he said, you're smiling again. I said yeah. He said, you got basketball back. And isn't that something you know all those times? You know, and you said it. You you know, you're traveling to the NBA cities and you're seeing familiar faces and a lot of stuff that we took for granted as players. We get a chance to

make up for now. And you know, we all set out to be Grant Hill and Ray Allen who just scale through and they they're just all American guys and they're mentally put together. But a lot of us, you know, struggle, you know, giving everything and and and all of that. So I'm just proud of you looking back on all of it, Twine, Uh, what do you wish you could have or would have done differently? I think, you know,

it's hard to say what one particular thing I think. Um, you know, I kind of break it down in categories when you think about financially. But I think I'm still gonna take care of my mom. I think I'm still gonna take care of my brothers and sisters, the family, peace and friends of the extended family and friends. Um, I think I would have more accountability, um for them. I think I would want them to have more hold them,

more accountable. Um. I wouldn't just probably let loose cash go out the door as easy as I did, And I would say this is actually is one thing and for me and for more athletes and what we all make a mistake. We don't think about retiring. We just don't think about thirty five or four years old, and it's like when you came. I came in nineteen. I'm playing and I'm I'm getting up and down and I'm

making money. I'm not thinking about thirty five. I'm not thinking about forty just going in, you know what I mean. All I'm thinking about these checks rolling in. I'm playing. I'm in the best shape of my life. I'm having the most fun in my life. You're not thinking about that. And that's why I try to humble guys at and let them understand. I was a year and a half removed from the game before it hit rock bottom for me. You gotta know that what you're doing is really powerful.

It's really powerful, and it's gonna help. It's gonna you're gonna You're gonna keep a guy or two or ten or twenty or a hundred from you know, going down the road that that you have because Antoine is powerful. You're an NBA All Star, You're champion in college and the pros people are gonna listen to your story, So sharing it is way powerful. Man. I'm more proud of you over this than I am over all the basketball stuff. And one thing I think you understand there's two rests

from going through your child and tribulations. One thing about it, it's not you. It's a part of your story. Um. You know, it's more good than bad. It's a part of your life that obviously wish you could take back. But if you let it tear you down, it could lead you to a really, really dark place that you may not be able to recover from. But if you have some therapeutic situations to help you talk about it, to help you, you know. So that's what's been good

for me. I've been had. I've had numerous opportunities over the last four or five years of my life to be able to talk about it, speak about it, and to be honest with you. It's not enjoyable, you know. I have to get my mindset and I don't know what you have to go through before. But you get tired of asking those questions. You get tired of answering, oh,

why why did you do this? Or you know, But being able to be in front of my peers just past year, and to be with guys that you know, I said in that room I was on there, um was great to be able to get those guys to communicate, to talk to me, to ask me questions, UM, to know know what not to do, what to do. That's what feels good. You're giving back, man, And you're right though,

and it wears me out some days. I know I'm supposed to go give a speech and I'm like, I do not want to talk about the worst fucking day of my life again today. And so but then I get there, and then I start seeing people and they're really into it and they're taking away something, and I think, well, it would be awful selfish of me to not share it. Right, That's exactly how I was. I think all those things

are are therapeutic and get you through it. But to be honest with you, I mean, I'm bea forty five X. I feel like it's a part of my life, you know what. I love to be in half of my financial position that I was in. Of course, well who wouldn't want to be. But a lot of headaches are going too. That's right, that's right. And you're still a young man, Twine, You're still a young man. What's next

for you? I would love to continue to progress and TV, but I'm now starting to think about UM, maybe wanted to be with the team if you've done that before, maybe in the front office scouting, Um, I want to stay a part of the game. I'm actually in the process of just figuring out because I never went down that path, whether it was trying to coach or scouting. I've never really really put a whole hearted effort into it.

But maybe just trying to reach out now, trying to see if I can get on somebody, maybe start off scouting um of some sort. I do love TV, UM, but you know, like I know about TV, it's a million of us that um, you know, ex players in the field. It's not a lot of turnover in the job. You know, they're kind of using the same people. So I don't know if anything will open up in that in that spectrum. But Fox has been great to me.

I'm already going into my fore fear with them, and I mean they still give me a piece, and you know, I still don't get in a couple of days a week and get an opportunity to talk the game. So I do enjoy that. I just want to stay in sports, man, this was I love to do. There's a place for you. Hey, letna switch this up. Last thing real quick. And a lot of ways. You were ahead of your time as a player. I mean you were you were six ten six and all right, yeah, that's what I'm getting to. So, uh,

you're ahead of your time. When you watch the game today, what do you see and how do you think you'd fit in? I remember when I used to get criticized for shooting threes. Yeah, and now guys, now teams are shooting attempts at game. So I feel like I helped transition the game a little bit into that. So I was looking at that and you know, in my prime probably yeah, I probably make it three million, and you

would save it this time. But there's big things on the horizon for you, Antoine, bro listen, thanks so much for joining me on charges today, being so open and honest about this journey. You know, your person who brought so much joy the millions of fans around the world when you played, you stood tall, and then your story took a turn. You truly are an inspiration, Antoine, your true testament to how overcoming things are possible. And uh, I want you to know, man, my door is always

open to you. I'm excited for the next chapter in your life. Thanks for having me on the show About. For more of your favorite former NBA and w NBA players, check out the n B r p a's Legends Media and Entertainments digital series and podcasts Legends Live with Trill Withers every Thursday at four pm Central and the Hoop

d Jour with Peter Vessey podcast. You can follow all Legends media and entertainment content on social media at NBA Alumni on Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, and Twitch on Facebook at NBA Alumni, or at Legends of Basketball dot com. The Charges ste Sin Tanis and Balls and Charge the celebrity gank forums Charge we came along with from Living Lawless Charge, severing all run ins with the law Charges at least send the tennis and Lawless and Charge is the celebrity

gank forums Charge we came along with from Living Lawless. Charge. Charges is created by Portlay and Control Media that's produced by DV Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit i Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.