Vol. 4: Chris Herren

killed me. You know, I wish people challenged me in other areas of my life. My wife is less than a quarter mile away from this scene, and she's about to find out that her husband is a heroin addict. You're a walking, fucking miracle man. Welcome to Charges. I'm your host, Rex Chapman. Today on the show, we have perhaps one of the best players to have his career

and potential completely ruined by addiction. Compared to a lot of the guests we'll have on this show, you might not know him, so let me give you a little background.

Chris got his own Sports Illustrated photo shoot, which in was about as big a deal as trimming on Twitter for a week straight I spoke with a number of Chris's former coaches, teammates, and opponents, including our resident two time NBA MVP Slash Charges executive co producer Steve Nash, and he told me that Chris should have played in the NBA for ten, twelve, fourteen years he played for two.

Come join us today on a crazy and in some ways cathartic episode of Charges with us Today is Chris Harren, perhaps one of the best players to have his career and potential completely ruined by addiction. Chris was the pride of Fall River, Massachusetts who became a McDonald's All American. He would land at Boston College and go on and start at Fresno's a under legendary coach Jerry tart Kanian. But we will get into why he changed schools later.

He was drafted by the Denver Nuggets in the second round of the ninety nine NBA Draft thirty third overall, and then played for his hometown Boston Celtics the following season. He then head overseas to play basketball in China, Turkey, Italy, Poland I Ran. He did all of this while battling a massive drug addiction. A drug addiction so consuming that he would overdose and need to be brought back from

the dead more than once. You might know of Chris if you're a true hoops junkie, which if you think about it, what a term, right, or you may know him from the incredible documentary on him as part of ESPNS thirty for thirty series called Unguarded by Jonathan Hawk, or his memoir Basketball Junkie. Chris is an author, motivational speaker, and wellness advocate. Chris has founded three organizations that provide programs and services with the goal of overcoming setbacks and

navigating life's challenges. It's great honor to be here with Chris today. And Chris, I'm so glad you survived to talk with me. Bro. No man, I'm honored honestly, you know. Uh, you know, aside from everything you just talked about. Um, you know you are one of the reasons why I picked up a basketball. You know, there's no doubt about that. So I remember, you know, cutting out sports illustrated pitches of you, and so it is it's great to be here, and um, I'm glad we're here in this uh talking

about recovery and so on. That's really cool bro, Thank you. Um. Yeah, I reached out to a guy yesterday who I spent time with in the NBA, A coach. Um. Now, he's not much older than I am, but I reached out to him yesterday because I told him, I said, weren't you uh with Chris? At one point he said yes, And I want to read you what he said. See if you can guess who it is, I'm sure you can. Wow. I love Chris, everyone does. Most likable kid I ever coached,

even and back then, very unselfish. Only player who would actually buy me lunch. I remember doing defensive slides with him on his recruiting trip in his hotel room, showing him we could teach him to guard the ball. He knew he could score, but was concerned he wouldn't be able to guard. Who is it? Johnny Welch. Johnny Welch, Johnny Well you know exactly how great is that? Dude? Yeah? He's the best. He I mean, I want to be here today. Um. He made me, you know, he brought

me into the lab and created this basketball player. So you know, without John Welch, I would have never made it past college. Um. But what people don't know about our relationship too is he was instrumental into supporting my recovery as well as introducing me to recovery. So on so many levels, so impactful. You know, just a great man, a great mind, a great soul and uh you know, nothing but cherished beautiful memories of Johnny Welch. That's so

great here, Yes, truly hit son. Riley has been playing here at Kentucky the last few years as a walk on so and he just graduated. So I can't believe that he was just a little guy. It seems like yesterday, you know, could you please, you know, set the scene where you're from Fall River in Massachusetts. The city it seems like it shaped you. And as a kid from Kentucky,

I can kind of understand that. Tell me about fall River, you know, Fall River was a booman city back in the twenties and the thirties, textile, a lot of mills um, but a lot of blue collar, a lot of blue collar people, hard working. You know, the city in itself is a tough city. But you know the lineage, the history of diffy basketball just you know, growing up in that time. You know the Celtics, you know they were

kind of second back seat to diffy basketball. To me as a kid, you know, diffy basketball meant everything to me, you know, especially with no internet and no access. You know, all I cared about it was Tuesdays and Friday nights going to watch diffy basketball. So you know, my father played hoop. My brother was unbelievably successful as a high school basketball player. Did you guys play together? You and

your brother? He was older by too much, right, yeah? Yeah, so he You know, I came in his freshman year of college. So I was a freshman in high schoolhen he was a freshman in college. You know, I was blessed with probably more athletic ability. He was blessed with more heart in a sense, you know, in toughness. Yeah yeah, I mean, you know he's he but come on, yeah yeah, yeah,

well listen, I was blessed with enough of it accepted. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, he was a tough act to follow, and playing in front of, as you know, thousands and thousands of people as a fourteen fifteen year old kind of shapes you and sometimes negative I understand that. Man. You know, the town I grew up in sixty thou people, Owensboro, Kentucky, and four high schools my dad coached. He played, he played an old a B A but he you know,

I was always Wayne Chapman's son. But he coached at Apollo High School, and that's all I wanted to do, was the only thing I wanted to do. I went to his practices every day. Nothing else mattered. And you know, as I grew up, you know, started getting better and better and stuff, but it was always rewarded, you know, positively. When that's all I knew how to do. I didn't give a shit about anything else, school, nothing else, you know. So I wonder, you know how similar that might have

been for you playing for Durfy completely. You know, I often tell people, especially when I speak to kids, like, you know, I wish people challenged me in other areas of my life, you know, like I wish somebody came up to me and you know, and said, you're really good at basketball, but you really struggle, you know, being yourself. And you can play and perform in front of a lot of people and score a lot of points, but you really struggle with yourself on a Friday night with

kids that you've known your whole life. So you know, in my my mission today and all the public speaking I do and all the kids I'm in front of, you know, it's about awareness. It's about you know, challenging our children socially and emotionally and exposing them to different life skills, coping skills, skills that I never had. And you know, I'm listening to you talk about you know, you didn't care about school and it was just scoop, and internally I kind of cringe, right, because that's that's

the thing. Yeah, I mean, that's one of the things I'm most embarrassed by, you know, is that lack of effort that I put in into so many other areas of my life. Lack of curiosity. That's what gets me, you know, just I didn't care if somebody did tell me I was messing up. I remember them telling me in school sophomore year, and I had no plans on leaving school early, but they said, rex, you know, this is a class you're gonna need. And I was like, I'm not gonna need that. I'm not gonna need that,

and then I left. And then guess what that degree would have been coming really handy about seven or eight years ago, right, you know, I couldn't even coach basketball because I don't have a degree. So you're in high school. You're dominating though on the court, you know, but off the court, what were your vices? What were you doing? Drinking? Smoking, you know, and did that affect your game at all as a high schooler? You know, I think so drinking

and smoking primarily occasional pills. Right, If I could get my hands on if some valu yeah, if some parents had surgery, will get ahold of their Viking ins um, someone you know had their wisdom teeth pulled, or you know, one of our friends had a little orthoscopic surgery. So we weren't afraid of that. From the outside looking in, I would say a lot of people would not have projected my struggle because the game of basketball took me away from it. It was an escape for those two hours,

and you're dominating. You know, you feel superhuman in many ways, right, Yeah, And not to mention the fact too, like, you know, a AU was just kind of coming into its own and it was yet to be taken over by the sneaker companies. But I was playing you know, seventy eight Games of Summer, right, So I'm traveling to Vegas to Tennessee to Florida. So I'm away from the scene. It's just when I come back to the scene, right, I come back and I dive right in part of me.

And I don't know if you struggled with that, but I wanted to be normal, and you know, like I was envious to the kids who didn't have, you know, all this pressure, you know, in this ability, and I just wanted to be normal, right, And you know, it is kind of like the whole be careful what you wish for. I dreamt all of my friends from age eight to grow to be able to play basketball. They all dreamed for it, and then it happened to me. You know, I just wanted to get a scholarship somewhere.

What I wasn't prepared for was I was so socially inept if I wasn't around my good friends when I came to Kentucky. Part of me coming to Kentucky was that I got to bring two of my boys from high school to live in the dorm. That was the deal. That was the deal, A part of the deal. So and they did you know they lived downstairs, my twins, Kevin and Keith Vanderpool. There my boys to this day.

But I almost had no confidence around anyone else. I got really weirded out with people looking at me, wondering if they were talking about me, talking shit about me, or are they loving me up? And and I in securities of the time. They're lining me up, you know, they're sizing me up. They're not saying, oh, look at Chris Harren, What a good guy. You know, I'm thinking immediately they're talking about me. So um, and that's alcoholism at its best in a sense, right, is untreated alcoholism.

But um, you know, I too did not have the deal on the table of bringing my homeboys to Fresnel. But but they I know they were there, but they came anyway. We're gonna get to that. But part of that high school thing. And I didn't win, Chris, I didn't win in college. We were good, but we didn't win it. But we won the third region to go to the state tournament my junior year in high school. And it might I feel because all my boys got to do that. They got to go and play in

rupp Arena. I knew I was gonna go and play later, but it's you know, so that high school thing huge special especial it's you know, and and unfortunately, right, so during high school, they were writing a book about you know, Far of a Dreams and you know in that book are quite a few of my friends, and you know, we all struggled, right, we all struggled like whether it was heroin, cocaine, alcoholism. And you know, I say to kids all the time, like, you know, that's the scariest

thing about addiction. Nobody knows who has it yet, you know, nobody knows who's gonna be the one suffering so much as an adult, you know, because of some of the decisions we're making today. And you know, to grow up and walk to school with these kids and go to elementary and recess and play whoop in their driveways and you know, go down to parks, and then fast forward twenty years later, we're all shooting heroin and jam and coke op on those you know, it's tragic, it is.

Take me to your dorm room at Boston College. You know, cocaine's a serious step up from weed and booze and pills um. And that wasn't that long after Lenny Bias had died, which was a huge deal nationally and especially in Boston. What was it about that coach that intrigued you? Because I played against guys with guys who did coke who and they were a fucking nightmare to guard. And I assumed if I did that, I would a die right away or I would love it, and so I

never did it. So I'm really intrigued to know. And how did it make you feel? Playing as well? It probably would have had the same exact effect on you that it did on me, um, because and only people that really partied on coke can identify with this. But it was kind of my truth serum. It allowed me at three thirty in the morning to sit there on a couch and talk about who I was, my feelings when I'm struggling with It just opened me up and

it made me unbelievably transparent and vulnerable. Now, you know, at three o'clock the next afternoon, when I'm just shaking it off and waking up, I'm like, what did I talk about? You know what I mean? But at that moment, you know that social awkwardness that you talked about, you know, it takes yeah, and it takes that away. It takes that away, and it kind of it allows you to kind of spill your guts. Um, that was one of

the attractive things to me. You know, obviously I had no idea you know how attracted I'd be to it. You know, I I truly said it, and I meant it, you know, because of Lenny Bias. Right, I'm saying to myself, I'll do this one time and I'll never do it again. And fourteen years later, Um, but it's a tough drug.

My dorm room, you know, eighteen years old, five in the morning and I'm watching kids carrying their backpacks going to class, and you know, I was just I couldn't identify right, and I'm depressed and I'm digging a hole. And I just remember the Boston College Athletic director, you know, bringing me into his office and saying, we need to help you, and I need you to to write down who your teaches us I can contact them. And I was like, buddy, I don't even know my teachers. You know, yeah,

I'm with you. And that was like three months in four months in you know what I mean. I just I just didn't know him. I wasn't going And you know I say that laughing because you and I can identify but also with great embarrassment. After breaking his risk during a Boston College home game in November of things started going off and into the rails of cocaine addiction. Within three months of his injury, Chris failed two more drug tests for marijuana and cocaine use. He was expelled

from the team and the university. So you get kicked out at BC. How crushing was that? You know you live not far away. Yeah, it was crushing. I couldn't wrapped my head around it, you know what I mean. I was doing a lot of coke, a lot of party, and it's embarrassing. Right. So I had just got done being a feature in Sports Illustrated coming off the McDonald's

All American Game. BC was you know, we had a top five recruiting class, so there were high expectations and then it's over and any in hindsight, right, my mother she's at the time, you know, thirty nine years old and she's got to find out her son has a major cocaine addiction, you know. So it's just devastating on so many levels. I can dive into it a little bit more today than I did at eighteen. I was

just like, yeah, big mistake. Let's keep it moving. You know, when you go to Fresno in the middle of nowhere, friends they move out there with you. Uh do you ever think, man, I gotta find a way to stay away or did you think, you know, these are my people, they'll help keep me safe. Could you even negotiate that

I wouldn't keep them safe? You know what I mean? Like, that's the thing I remember growing up as a kid, and I remember, you know, parents say, oh, you gotta stay away from that kid, you know, And I'm like, you have no idea they have. Parents are saying the same thing about me, you know, Like you know, people tell me, like, you can't hang out with your friends. Those friends don't shouldn't be hanging out with me, you know.

I mean, let's keep it real, right, So I fight out to Fresno and I get put in the arms of Danny Tarkanian and John Welch, And that year of sitting out was so there was so much relief, right, no pressure. You were crushing them, bro, I mean crushing them your body. You know you were. You could tell you look different if you look at my sophomore year, that red shirt year to my sophomore year, my body. Johnny Welch had my body like I was a fighter. You know, I was ready and he put me in

that position. And you know we played. There was some great players at Fresno and extremely competitive. Johnny Welsh could play. Oh, he could play man. Yeah, got after it too, after you Yeah, and you know he'll listen to this. But what Johnny Welch won't tell anybody. I think he's for three on right hooks on me. I ducked them all. I've I've you got some fight to get your background too, and I know he does too. He gives no fox man, I mean on the nicest guy though off the court.

Nicest guy, yeah. The great and future Hall of Famer Jerry Tart Kanyan May you rest in peace, gave Chris a second chance to play by bringing him cross country to Fresno State in Chris made his debut for the Bulldogs, but after a breakout season under coach Tark, Chris's addiction caught up to him once again. Chris felt a drug test during his junior year and was forced to go to rehab, the first of many trips he would make

over the next several decades. I saw your press conference I saw your press conference and just started bawling because I mean I could say you couldn't look you couldn't look at anybody. The breaking news concerns one of Jerry Tarkanians star basketball players. There's a news conference about to get underway at President State, and perhaps some of you may know. I haven't battled the first one problem for the past four years. I am his days every one I sent back in that clips up. It's time for

mental focus. I'll get Hi my letter back in auto and discussion this feep with my doctor's coach kid clue that should sep away for the best ball program. I fress I finis I We'll be back to oh my best Thank you now. This was June, But imagine this scenario happening in today's seven news cycle. A top draft prospect battling addiction coming soon to an NBA team near you. Today's NBA franchises wouldn't touch Hearon or anyone else with a ten football, A true testament to just how gifted

he was as a player. To tends to have executives turning a blind eye or two two holes in character. For Chris, it was more of a growing chasm ever eroding before our eyes. What do you remember about your you know, your pre draft workouts and draft night specifically, you know, I remember just in complete fear, right like if it wasn't for Danis. So Dannis still gave me a little bit of comfort, you know, like he Kentucky Wildcats. Yeah,

no doubt, no doubt. And I remember working out for the Nuggets and him throw me in his car and driving me back down to the Pepsi Center, and you know, we both shared stories about our childhood and what we had to face and what we went through. And I felt that if at thirty three Dennis who was going to take me after our conversation, So that gave me a little comfort I was sitting that was kind of

your backstop, no doubt. And it was a very guard dom minute draft, like Baron Davis and Steve Francis and William Avery and Fontigo coming. There was just a lot of guards going in the first round. So you know, I fell and I waited for you know, Daniel, and and I was fortunate enough to land there. I uh,

it was a party. The streets shut down in four River, you know, we were escorted in My wife and I and you know, the party began, the celebration began, and it was just another mountain to climb, though, you know, like as exciting as it was, like I saw another mountain and I was like, fuck, man, I gotta climb this one too. I watched your your draft footage, and

I was just every pick that went by. Of course, like every fan, I'm just crushed and crushed and for your wife, Heather, and and you're a young man who's already been in rehab, man who's already been and I can't imagine that. But on the drive down to the party, you were so excited, so excited in the car and you got out and immediately you got up in front of these people and you they are your people, but you got emotional. You felt like you had something to prove. Still.

It was beautiful and heart wrenching all at the same time. I thank everyone for coming down here. This has been We all fought for this for a long time, and everyone stood behind me throughout this whole thing. And thirty three number one, it feels the same, and it's has time to relax and have fun and let's enjoy the

playing dead. You know, so many emotions right, so much hard work, so much you know, commitment, you know, all the people who questioned me and my addiction, and like you said, you know, being in rehab at twenty and one years old and facing that adversity to finally get there. But for me, it was a little different, right Like when I jumped on that plane to go to Fresno, I had no plans on playing in the n b A.

I had zero plans. I just wanted to be a good college basketball player, and I wanted to prove myself at that level. John Welch put that dream in me, and he made me realize, well, maybe I can. So it was hard work, It was a lot of dedication, It was a lot of discipline. But there was a lot of sadness to it, and there was a lot of emotion attached to it. So I was so far away from living in the moment, you know, the way we lived, the way I lived today, living one day

at a time. I was so far away from that mindset, and I just wish that I could have cherished those moments when they they weren't cherishable. Bro, I feel so much of what you're saying. You know, I reached out to several people that I know knew you for this, you know, Rick Pattino, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, every last one of them talk about what a good player you were, what a great guy you are. Your teammates always loved you,

and that speaks volumes. So you're in Denver your rookie year, and I think you played out there with a couple of well at least with one guy, Dice. Antonio mcdice, he was my young guy in in Phoenix, but then he ends up out there with you guys and Nick Van Exel. Who else was on that team? And what was it like playing on that team? Was it? And what was your Holy shit, I'm in the NBA moment, phenomenal,

phenomenal team. Just men, right, Bryant Stith, Popeye, Jones, Roy Rodgers, Uh, Antonio, Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Um, just a lot of Chauncey Billups, Ron Mercer was on that team, um for a little bit, and just a lot of as salt of the Earth type dudes. George McLeod who I spent most of my time with, right, Big George, I know, Big George, Roy Rogers and mcdice, great teammate, you know, he was. He was a special guy, and they were all you know, they embraced me. Antonio

took care of me. You know, I could honestly like, I love Antonio mcdyce for what he did for me. Uh dude, one of the sweetest people you'll you'll ever meet, right, No, humble, kind, very kind, very soft. And you know, I was playing my NB a moment um, you know, just one of them and includes Dice. I was coming down the court and I just threw it and I was like, uh fuck, like this is going in the third row. And he just came out of nowhere and was like, I'll take that.

And I was just like, that's the NBA. Welcome to the NBA. I'm telling you, it wasn't an amazing We used to because when I was playing in probably that still had illegal defense. So what we would do, I'd run a side pick and roll. Dice would come out and when they would push it down to the baseline, I would just fly straight to the baseline, running out of bounds because they couldn't help on the week side, and Dice would go to the rim and I just just throw it up and he would catch it anywhere.

I mean imagine being able to do that totally. He uh see, when I was with them, you got spurts to that right, Like moments he became just like this unbelievable turnaround seventeen Sea shooter, right yeah, just amazing automatic yeah, automatic automatic. So um, you know, but many moments I remember Dannisti looking down the bench and saying like come on in, you know, and and entering that game for the first time. Um, you know, I remember having such fear.

You know, like the guards today they don't experience, you know, getting put in the post, and you know, being a six one six two white kid, I'm like Gary Payton Jason Kidd, like these guys are gonna drag me down into the block tonight. You know, I would lose sleep over that. Yeah, you know the same as me. You know, I played in an era where Clyde Drexler and m J and Glenn Rice are the two's and I'm just gonna get posted up all night. I better be really good.

On the other hand, right, it's a completely different game. I needed like twelve fouls if I was gonna, I was gonna guard that. Um. But you know that experience in Denver, was it was beautiful. It really was like I had my moments, you know, I remember and George McLeod, he'll remember this. I remember, you know, being at the

Rolex in Miami and you know what I mean. And that was and that was for Rick Ross made it pretty right, like the Rolex was grimy and yes dirty, and I didn't go back with the rest of the guys. And I just remember coming in at like four thirty five thirty in the morning and Big George kind of like grabbing me and saying, like, this isn't how we're doing it. You talk about that team with such reverence. It's like a couple of my Phoenix teams, you know,

where I just felt I was playing my best. You know what breaks my heart is that this is your rookie year. And that's what I asked Stevie Nash. I said, how good was Chris? He said he was really good, and he said, you know who knows. But there was no reason he shouldn't have banged out ten, twelve, fourteen years in the NBA, and maybe whatever happened was going

to happen. I just wish that you could have had a little bit more of that in Denver for another couple of years to maybe see, if you know, some of that behavior that you were exhibiting could have become habit and that growth, right, I had a lot of growth that year, you know, to be with Chauncey and watch the Popeye Jones and they were very selfless, right, I played with very selfless men that year, and they

were older. So I remember getting traded to the Celtics and I was supposed to be excited and I was hotbroken. See June comes true thrown up right down the street. Is uh, It's an amazing things to this day to come. You know. I dreamed about this a long long time ago as a little kids. So I can't say enough about it. You know. I've also been traded more than once in my career, and let me tell you, it's hard having to uproot your whole life, family and future.

October seventeen, two thousand, a day that changed Chris's life forever. On this day, Chris Herron and Bryant's Death were traded to the Boston Celtics by the Denver Nuggets on Monday for Robert Pack and Calbert Cheney. I can't even imagine how conflicted Chris must have felt heyding from a group of veterans in Denver who had his back to a Celtics team in search of chemistry. Years before re establishing

a championship pedigree. Chris was nearly twenty five. That trade back home was the beginning of the end for him in the league and the start of his road to a life where he would play only twenty five games in Celtic Green. He would never make it back to the NBA. When you get traded to the Celtics, it kind of falls apart. Tell me about what you were doing, who you're doing it with, uh, and how that double

life felt? Brutal right? It was, you know, twenty two hours a day was dedicated to keeping this secret and the other two was to practice with Rick Pottino, you know, so you know I was introduced to Oxy's It was, you know, right right around nine thousands, and it wasn't in the headlines, you know, the head We were on the cutting edge. Yeah, we want exactly on the cutting edge and that and at that time they were calling it hill billy heroin. That's what they were calling it

back then, hill billy heroin. And it seemed to settle you know, in the Kentucky West Virginia, Ohio, and then it skipped and it went up to Maine and then it worked its way down. But I just as I say, I'm one of the unfortunate ones that takes a painkiller and feels phenomenal. You know, I wish I was that guy who threw up and couldn't take it. Does do that thing that we talked about earlier. Though I remember taking it in two days, I knew I was in

love what it did. It made me feel nicer, Like people would come up to me, chatty, people would come up to me, and you know, people maybe at one of my son's baseball games that only wants to talk about basketball, and all of a sudden I was talking to him about basketball. I felt like a nicer, better

person and that was pretty alluring to me. And I can only imagine it had to feel a bit the same, no doubt, And you know it's I jumped, you know, from forty milligrams to milligrams quickly, you know, like I would be out with people and they would know the extent of what I was taking and they would shake their head, and I'm like, that's just to get right you know, like I didn't. I mean, I'm I'm right, you know, I'm functioning, I'm playing, I'm practicing. Um, did

your body ever give out? Only when I didn't have it? Right, It's when I didn't have it then that's when that's when, Yeah, so sick. So if I had it, I was okay.

And that doesn't mean I was okay. I could have had oxy cotton every day and never felt that sickness in my career would have nos dived, you know, because the grind, you know, the time, the energy, the emotion that's put to that addiction is just ruthless, and you know all of the other things that come along with it, the health and some of the things that you go through when you know, uh, heavily dependent on opiates, but a lot of lonely nights, man, a lot of a

lot of lonely nights. And I just remember remember going to bed at night and saying to myself, like, what is it going to be like when everyone finds out? You know, what is this? What is this going to look like? And you feel like a fraud? That felt big time, big time, and uh, you know, I was

just saying this. There was a time especially during the Celtics, right, I had access to money, and I would deal with guys and I would show up and I would buy, you know, thirty forty OxyS and they would pull me to the side and say, like Chris, like, you have a lot of money, man, just buying bok, why do

you keep coming out? And in hindsight, looking back at that behavior, like sadly, I just wanted that day to be my last day, you know, so I just kept coming every day, you know, when I could have dropped twenty grand on the table and said give me and paid a lot less for it, right, right, But I didn't want that many on me because I had the the ambition and the gold to quit, but I didn't have the tools. Yeah, it reminds me. I say, I was just fortunate that I was finished playing. Well, I

really wasn't. I had another three years left on my deal. But I was hurt and all of that. However, the second I took oxy Con, I never played another game in the NBA. I retired shortly thereafter because that's all I wanted to do. And I remember driving from Phoenix down to Tucson. You know, I couldn't get him from the doctors anymore. I'm taking like fifty sixty Viking in today about ten oxies and just chewing them up, you know. And so at some point and I got tired of

running around two dealers. So somebody told me, hey, you can go down to Tucson right out the back of CVS, you know, meet my boy down there. And so two or three times, man, I drove from Tucson back to Phoenix and probably speeding, you know, in a sports car. And I've got four big bottles see under, you know, five hundred apiece in there, so two thousand pills. If I'm pulled over and there for me, they are for me.

But if I'm pulled over, I'm not sharing them. And so but if I'm pulled over, just they're taking me to prison. This is with intent to distribute. And that's the end, because they're not going to believe that I'm taking all that ship. It's mind boggling to me. How many times did you get in trouble with the law? Do you remember? You know, the law started coming when Heroin came. A former high school basketball star is in

trouble with the law. Chris Heron made a name for himself at Diffy High School in Fall River before playing at Fresno State and going tow On Friday, Heron was arrested in Portsmouth on drug charges. Investigators claimed heroin residue was found in That's when I really started to struggle as far as dealing with with Lauren Fossman because of the overdoses. Right, and and that's another thing, Like I did most of my heroine and most of my oxy's in the car, Like I would drive down, get it,

do it, and go back to my home empty handed. Right, So most of my use was between point A and point B, right from the dealer's house to my house. It was all gone. So there was a lot of you know, multiple times I overdosed um, you know while in my vehicle, so d uise and so on and so far started coming pretty regularly. You know. When I overdosed for the first time, it was in two thousand four, and you know, I was in a dunkin Donuts drive through and I took my foot off the brake and boom,

I bumped into the woman in front of me. You know, when I come through and uh, you know, there's blue bags everywhere. A hypodermic needle, and I'm like, my life just changed forever, and everybody who loved me, you know, Like my wife is less than a quarter mile away from this scene, and she's about to find out that her husband is a heroin addict. And you know, the next day the Boston Herald, the headline was, what a shame is that your rock bottom? Gosh no, no, no,

I had so many of them. Um, you know, And that's the thing, right, Like it's every day, you know that, like every day is low, you know, like there's no good days. There's no good days when you know, I'm looking at my children and I'm then going to the A T M Machine to spend five dollars. Yeah, it's maddening and it's psychotic, you know. You you said it

so well. I Mean, one moment, all we can think about is ourselves, and then the next moment, the second we get in trouble or whatever, we start thinking about all those people who love us. Isn't that amazing? Yeah? Yeah, And listen, you know two thousand four people weren't really overdosing on heroin, right, Like it was so uncommon and

that it almost somewhat flew under the radar. You know, like a weirdly but you know, I I remember coming out of jail that night and I remember calling the guy who who sold it to me and like, listen, I need more because it was so good it almost killed me, you know. And that's how sad we are, you know, that's how sick we get that we wake up every day to pay to take a chance of Diane. You know, every day we chased death for that feeling. You know. So I remember going on the Texas road trip, right,

and I'm like, fuck, like Texas. That means we're going for like seven days, eight days. That's stress man, right, So I would just fly him. I would FedEx fly him down. So when I got to certain hotels, whether it's in San Antonio or Dallas, the concierge would say, you know, Mr Herron, you have a package. You know. That was a full time job. Well, Christmas rear would continue overseas. This would begin a downward spiral of drug

use and charges, tabulating seven felonies in all. This included a then thirty three year old Heron being arrested for alleged heroin possession after police found him slumped over the steering wheel of his vehicle in June two thousand and eight. The car was partially on the sidewalk with its engine running and in gear. Police said, with the amount of times Chris used in his vehicle, it's blind luck he didn't hurt anyone. And then he lived to share his story.

I remember you'll like this. I'm playing in Turkey and Istanbul and I had a guy shipped me out a bunch and I remember going to the place to pick it up and I opened up the package and all the pills are gone, and a guy in customs wrote me a nice note saying like this is unbelievably disappointing that this is what y'all life has turned to, Like, guess some help for your family man, And he took them all, but I could see all the green oxy

from the eighties still stuck to the newspaper. But the build up to that was I had an inclination walking into that package place in Istanbul that someone had gone through my package. And when they walked out, it was wrapped in yellow tape and they said, do you want to claim this? And I was like, I want to claim that, just in case, just in case, you know. So, yeah, So the madness that comes with, you know, with that drug,

the desperation, um, you know was the everyday thing. Yeah, Um, I want to take a moment if you're comfortable talking about, you know, getting clean. I was in rehab three times, and I want to tell you just from I've always been felt very fortunate, especially after going to rehab, that I never stuck a needle in my arm. You're a walking, fucking miracle man. You know, it was long odds making it to the NBA, but what you're doing now, well, it's life changing, not just for you, but for a

lot of people. Talk to me about your getting clean, the sobriety how you know, I know everybody's different. You and I we had to get off of opioids, which is essentially heroin, right and in your case actual heroin. So what was your process of getting clean? You know, towards the end, I was so out of money, right, like we were living so rough. Do you remember? And see how you say that right now and you say

it and it just rolls out. I say it myself, but I also remember there was a time where that was I was terrified of But what if I have to say that someday? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and you know, like we're talking, you know, not enough money to pay bills, no lights, no heat, and and we will live in rough and I had run out of things to sell. You know, the pawn shops wanted nothing to do with me anymore. So I was I primarily was become a vodka drinker. Right. Vodka shuts the noise off, It hits

you quick. And occasionally I would mix heroin in and you know that last overdose two, you know, wake up at thirty two, and you know, all I could think about was killing myself. Like I was like, you know what, like I can't do this to my kids anymore, you know, like my poor children. You know, they deserve so much more than what I'm giving them. And you hit a pole, right, a pole, and they you were supposedly dead for thirty seconds? Is that true? Well, just knock can right, the knock can.

So is that what happened? Yeah? Yeah, so so not Yeah, so knock cam brought me back, and um wow, I I just remember waking up and saying to myself, like, you know, I have to find a way to end my life, and I don't know how I'm gonna do it, you know, there's multiple ways I can do it, but I just remember a suicide being such a strong thought. Um, and a lot of that came from not wanting to face the people who loved me and not wanting to

you know, completely unravel my wife's life. You know, my wife's sacrifice so much to stay with me, like she went against her loved ones, her family's request to leave me. So long story short, the recovery process. Chris Mullen, you know, like Chris Mullen and Mully and Liz, you know, they made a connection to a guy named Murph, and Murph connected me to day Top and you know I checked in and at thirty two years old, I was introduced

to a different way of treatment. It was behavioral modification. It was a therapeutic community, which means, you know, very aggressive, authoritative. You know, like no phone calls, if your bed's not made, if your socks aren't old, if you close on color coordinated. I was living in a room with eight people. I got screamed at to put my feet on the floor

in the morning. So a different world. And but you know, a month and a half into that, Heather has given birth to Drew, and you know, I got a little bit of time under my belt, I'm feeling somewhat confident. I got a community of like eighty guys who I'm living with, and I'm like, I'm gonna go home and do this. And I failed, and I relapsed that day,

and thankfully I made it back. And I was one of the lucky ones because um I stayed in treatment or some form of treatment for almost eleven months, and it was almost eleven months before I made it back. Yeah to my family. But unbelievable story. Side story is Murf Murph, who Molly introduced me to, who got me the scholarship at day Top. He changed my life, He saved my marriage. He talked to my wife every single night when I was in day Top after I relapse. Now,

Murph was a super fan of Mulley. Two years later, Mulley's being inducted to the Hall of Fame and I will be in attendance, and all I care about is that Murf is gonna be there. And I finally get to a high five hug kiss, you know, the guy who saved my life. And Murph dies of a heart attack and Penn Station. I never meet him. I never met the man I never met the man that saved my life. And I was hours away from hugging this

dude and he passed away. You know, the Mullins opened the door and Murph, he spent countless hours counseling my wife and helping me without me knowing. Makes me want to cry. It makes me want to cry. So, you know, as I tell people in my wellness center, right, like, get comfortable with monotony, you know, because recovery can be very monotonous at times. You know, you're gonna listen to the same stories, You're gonna hear the same voices, but

you're blessed to be present for that monotony. And you know, for eleven months, I laid this foundation with the help of so many guys and women, you know, and that foundation has given me, you know, twelve and a half years. When did you decide you wanted to tell people about, you know, these horrible things that have happened in your

life And what was the goal? So didn't have one. Right, I was driving around repossessing vehicles, you know, with a childhood friend and I lost my license, right I had to you know, three d Uise under the influence of her many times. So now that job is gone and I'm in a meeting and you know, this guy who has twenty five years sober says, I got a woman who's gonna give you the keys to a school gymnasium. You're gonna teach basketball. So I started teaching. Who wasn't

it therapeutic? It was beautiful. You know, I'd be in the gym with some kids who could really hoop, and then I, you know what, the next session is a you know, a little fifth grade girl with harry legs who can barely reach the rim, you know what I mean. So, but it was all a beautiful experience for me, because I'll tell you this, those parents who dropped their children off to me first, I will always be indebted and

unbelievably grateful that they gave me that chance. You know that with you, I did the same thing in l A. I did that for a couple of years, and uh, you know, they knew me, their parents knew me. The kid didn't know me, their parents knew me, and they trusted me. And but when I watched you coaching these kids, You're perfect with them. You were so good with them. What relationships do you have with guys in the league or college, and do you ever have a desire to

get into basketball in that regard in that capacity. So while I was teaching basketball, a woman called and she said, you know, I know you lost your license and I want you to come to my school to speak. And she said, I don't have a budget for it. I can just give you a dunkin Donuts gift card. So I went on to speak in her class. Word of mouth went on to a couple of more high schools and the next thing, you know, I'm speaking, you know, two hundred times a year. And you know in the

speaking game is it's all word of mouth? Right, If you don't bring it, and if you're not authentic and you're not you know, responsible in front of those children, no superintendent of principle is gonna say, hey, bring him in. So I'm very proud that I've been able to do this for almost ten years. It was not planned. You know, I don't have many relationships. Um, you know I do. I do have relationships, but you do know I do.

But a lot of it too stems from people circling back for help, right, and they know that I'm available, and they know that you know, yeah, totally so. But Billy Donovan is a special dude. Um, you know you said that. And Chauncey Billips is an unbelievable man. Uh, Johnny Lucas at times we cross paths, um, you know. And oddly a lot of my stuff is football. I spend more time with football than I do with basketball. Uh really yeah, so you know, whether it's going into Alabama.

I'm with Alabama multiple times every year with savings. So a lot of football guys, a lot of you know, I've been working with Alabama for ten years. I've been with Florida State and Jimbo than transition to Texas A and m um you know stoops, stoops? Who's Mark? Yeah? Who is that Kentucky? He was with jimbo Um at Florida State. That's when I first met him. So the football game has been really good to me. I do a lot of work with the NFL with UH and I did the Rookie Symposium every year for the NBA.

That's great, Let's say it. It is. It's really powerful what you're doing. Uh. If you were playing today twenty one year old Chris Herron in today's NBA, imagine I want to be afraid of the post. That's right, That's right. Yeah, I want to be afraid of that. Mean Toronto had they were starting Kyle Lowry and Fred VanVleet, I mean you could have never. I love those guys, they're all stars, but you couldn't have started that backcourt in the eighties

and nineties. I mean straight to the post and you're just playing out of rotations all night long. Yeah, you were built for this, right, You're built different game, totally different game. And uh, you know, I'm a fan and I always will be. I'm unbelievably grateful for what the game gave me. Um, I believe you know, the commitment that it required and the patients has also kind of transcended into my recovery. You know, that work ethic, you know,

like you talked about in the opening, it's hard. You know, it requires a lot of due diligence and commitment, and you know, there were a lot of times I didn't want to wake up to go to a gym to shoot at a little orange thing. And there's times I wake up and I don't want to walk into a meeting to in my seat, But you know, I claim it. What's the Heron Project and Heron Willness. So Heron Project was all about Mulley, right, like I wanted to be.

I wanted to be Chris Mullen. I wanted to make the phone call he made, and I wanted to make that phone call and witness somebody's life change, and like he did for me. And the Heron Project, you know, I started it ten years ago. Over six million dollars worth of scholarships over the years, thousands fantastic, Yeah, thousands and thousands of people have been put into treatment because

of Haron Project. And you know, we support families, um we provide scholarships and sober living after we give people sober coaches, recovery coaches. Um. So, just an unbelievable organization that really stems from Murph and Mulley and Heron Wellness. You know, at ten years sober, I took a chance. It was my dream, you know, to start this company and to be you know, uh, part of the whole process. And you know, Heron Wellness is located in Massachusetts. Residential

people live there. We have twenty four beds. I like it small, I like it intimate. I want people to get as much attention as they deserve. What advice would you give your younger self a teenager or two listeners all over the world who might be struggling with addiction or or with the loved one who is you know, I think when we're in the middle of that storm, it's so daunting, it's so far away, you know that

the hope is gone. And even when kind of hope piques its way back in, and you really ask yourself, is it worth it? Like and I'm too far gone? Man? Like you know here I am, I'm thirty two, I'm shooting heroin, I have track marks on my arms, I'm smoking meth um, multiple felonies, arrest d you wise, like,

what am I going to get sober for? Sobriety has tested me and has given me more, you know, pride and confidence and just just such empathy for other human beings and you know, and and growth that I never ever thought that I could attain. And you know that guy that we talked about, you know, back when we were eighteen years old, socially awkward and needed all homeboys around.

You know, recovery has replaced them and has provided me people that you know, has guided me, uh for the last thirteen years, so please don't lose sight of that. Please don't ever think it's too late, because I would have never ever imagined my life could be this good. Chris, from the bottom of my heart, bro Um, I want to thank you for joining me sharing your story today. It means it really means the world to me. Um. If you ever need anything, please feel free to reach out.

You know you got my number. My door is always open. I'm wishing you nothing but the best. Bro. We're in this together, team, gain no doubt, we no doubt. But I do want to say this, and I mean this with all my heart. You were a childhood hero of mine and you know and as you were of many, but I was one of those kids that fell asleep to your picture and wanted to dream the life you will live in. And uh, if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't have been in the driveway. So I love you,

thank you, and we'll keep in touch. Much love, bro Hey. Make sure to follow Chris on Twitter at Sea Underscore, Harron Harron talks at hair and talks at Hair and Project and at Hair and Wellness. Thanks Bro, Thanks Chris, no doubt, Thank you, Thanks for being an Inspiration Charges Shet Sintenis and Charges Celebrity Gang Charge We came along with from Living Lawless Judge. Charges is created by port Lay and Control Media is produced by DV Podcasts in

association with I Heart Radio or more podcasts. For my heart radio, visit I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts