Vol. 3: Ryan Leaf

It's mine and mine alone. And if I can't be high, I want to be dead. That's where I was. My attic brain heard not only you a terrible football player, but you are a awful human being. Welcome to Charges. I'm your host, Rex Chapman. Today on the podcast, we have a guest who, in a lot of ways should be an inspiration to people. But we'll get into why later.

Today we welcome a former Charger to Charges. For those people who don't know, Ryan Leaf was a football prodigy, an absolute stud in high school from a small town in Montana. He's literally the only person from Montana to be drafted in the first ground of the modern day NFL. He went to Washington State and finished third in the Heisman Race behind future Hall of famers Charles Woodson and

Peyton Manning. Ryan became the number two pick in the NFL Draft, behind Peyton Manning too, then San Diego Chargers. He started his career to and Oh, the first rookie to do that in sixteen years, the first rookie since John Elway. So in almost every way up, pure stud absolute talent. But as we all know, it isn't just

physical ability that matters in life or sports. There are so many other factors to consider, mental health, surroundings, expectations, and today we're gonna talk with Ryan about his incredible rise and then what happens when things don't go as expected or as anticipated. Also, Ryan and I share a history with painkillers and opioids. Will talk about if you or a loved one is struggling, I want you to know there's help out there and we're here for you.

You are not alone, man, Brian, Ryan Leaf, I'm honored really to have you joined here today. I know that this some of this stuff it's not comfortable or pleasant to talk about um, but man, I'm excited to talk to you today. Well, I think, I think once you find acceptance in it, it's emotionally draining. Don't get me wrong, but you know, it's so free to tell your truth. It just is now. Um, you're not telling lies, you're not covering things up, You're just this is who I am.

I'm okay with it. You don't like it, you know, too bad? Well it? You know. I obviously I knew you from football watching. You were kind of coming in as I was exiting my pro career, so I followed you as a college player and then on into the pros, and then of course, you know with things that went on afterwards. But as I was reading up on you the last few weeks, um, so much of it really resonated with me and I. You're from Great Falls, Montana. How big is Great Falls? It's it's small, you know,

it's it's small for anywhere else. It's fairly large for Montana, and I think around sixty people. It's about the same. I grew up in Owensboro, Kentucky, in a town of about fifty five sixty thousand people, and it was a great sports town. But from a very young age, I was like the best you know, in the grade and in the school and all of that. And I lived my whole life by the statue sheet and whether we won or lost, and that was my whole identity. So when I was studying up on some of your stuff,

we're both from you know, small states. You know what has football meant to you? What does it still mean to you? And uh, could you paint a picture for Great Falls for the listeners who you know, have no idea what it might look like. It's a really uh introverted, conservative, blue collar, undiverse town. And to your point, you know, I was far and away the best athlete um they had seen. I don't know, maybe ever, I'm the only Montana and it's ever been drafted in the first round

of the NFL Draft. Ever, there are more first round draft picks in the Manning family than the whole state of Montana. Ever. So I didn't have a trailblazer. I just wanted to get out and I thought being a success was to get out of that small town and be a professional athlete. Whatever that look like. Basketball was it for me for so long. I mean, I just I love I saw you a jump shot. I saw you a jump shot, and I could jump, you know,

for a white boy. Jalen Rose was my hero. I wore you know, the gold shorts down to my ankles, like shaved my head. I had the black socks you know, that didn't fit very well in in Montana. My mom I was so worried about what other people thought. She kind of really shamed me from a young age. What do you think made you do that? And I'm asking because I this sounds really familiar, but what made you sort of because you're gonna stand out if you do that,

what do you think that was about? I didn't necessarily think I would. I just didn't see it that way. I love Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen, you know, and so that's who I envisioned who I was. And when I saw Kobe Bryant dunk for the first time and turn himself into like a seven forty seven going down the court. I remember when I tried that for the first time, the damn coach pulled me off the side and bench me. You know it just I just was, I guess ahead of my time. You know.

They just wanted their star athletes to be good at the sport and just shut up and dribble essentially, and I was I've never been that guy, I guess. I just you know, I was confident in myself and I I was a drug addict long before I ever took a drug. I just the fear, the judgment, all the things that exist. My first drug of choice was just competition. Had to win at anything and everything, and I would embarrass you in the process. That's how I won if you treated me poorly. You know, I was kind of

from the poor side of the river. Um, I didn't really want for anything. My parents did a tremendous job, but I mean there was another side of the river where the country club was and where those kids were, and I wasn't part of that group. I feel so much of that. Man. I think back and there's so many parallels. How did the people in Great Falls treat you? I'm sure you were a star all through what middle school, high school. My fans and um, my coach, as you know,

they liked it because we would win the state. Didn't really they didn't understand it. I remember my basketball coach was out standing out in front during the JV game watching it, playing a gentleman. We were on the road and gentleman came walking up and asked Coach McClain, who was our head coach, whether that leaf boy was playing tonight, and Coach McClain said, so, yeah, yeah, he's gonna be playing. You know, that's what he does. He's like, oh, that's great.

I just came here to boo his ass, you know. And uh, And Coach McClain couldn't understand it, Like, like, I rebounded hard, I played defense, I scored um, I could dunk. There wasn't many guys who could dunk in the state of Montana. I could shoot from distance, and

I love to win. You know, maybe I didn't act appropriately when I when we lost, you know, because I was so distraught, and I looked at other guys like why didn't you give it everything you had like I did, because it just wasn't as important to them, you know. And I understand that now, but at the time, I was like, what's wrong with you? Were you mature? Early?

You look like a different species out there that you're flying around the court and you're playing against a bunch of small, white guys, and I know what that felt like. But you looked you know, did you feel that way I could jump. I was athletic and I could jump, and I love to compete, but I was I mean, I was six four hundred and sixty five pounds, So I mean I wasn't like, I wasn't a beast or anything. You know. It was a tall, lanky, you know, string

being that was rolling around the state of Montana. And then and then we won a state championship in football my junior year, and I was named the starter, and I and all of a sudden, I started getting recruited by like every college in the country for football. And I'm like, I mean, I guess I like quarterback, that's you know, but why not? You know, why not? So I put on a few extra pounds and in a way we ran That's amazing. Um. You know, I think back to growing up. I had my circle of friends

and and there's a fine line. I obviously you've heard the people they've heard to you as an asshole. What gets me is that every talent scout ever, they're looking for a guy or an athlete that's got a little asshole in him, it's got a little prick in them. Right. That's supposed to be a good thing, because I think back, and for sure I didn't really have it off of the court, but everything that I was competing on ping pong, it didn't matter. You know, I was trying to win

and at all costs. I was able to shut that off in pretty much every other area though me too, I was this quiet introvert off the court. And guess what, all the people that talked to the media and heard that I was an asshole, those weren't my real friends. None of my real friends would have ever said that. The guys that I that I actually shared with and spent my time with, and who knew who I was and knew the fragile state of my you know, my consciousness,

you know, they would have never said that. What's so shameful about is is that I'm a kid, right, and like the state railed against me and shamed me. You know, when I was up for Heisman Trophy, they did a poll and I finished fourth in my hometown. It just it is what it is. But I had every opportunity to,

like because I was just a kid. These were just all they were all adults, you know, and and so I had every opportunity when things went well for me to come home and take the high road and make them a part of it, Like, make them a part of the journey, and be like, you know what, neither one of us knew what the hell we were doing. We're the first. I'm not gonna hold that against you. Let's do this together. Let's go on a journey together

as a town, as a state. But instead I came home and was like, I fucking told you, I told you you all can go funk off, all right, I am my god, and you are about to watch it play out. And that's what a mindset to have. And that's just the ego. That's the ego monster that just took over. And like the resentment, that's resentment. I resented them so much that I was willing to you know, rail against them rather than to you know, taking the

high road and showing love. That's it's the hardest thing to do, yeah, man, especially when you're you know, you're we're kind of wired to compete and uh, you know, showing that humility and vulnerable, being vulnerable. It took me a long time, man, it just did. How did you end up at Washington State? Mike Price, the head coach, you know, I was recruited by pretty much everybody. He called the day of the Rose Bowl January asked what

I was doing. I told him I was watching the Rose bowls U C. L A and Wisconsin playing, and he just said, Hey, I'll make you a deal, Ryan, you come to Washington State, you and I will play in that game together. And I just I bought it, hook line and sinker. You know, I hadn't done any research. I hadn't realized I hadn't been there since ninety one. Um, right, you know, if were you like me, I promised when I got to college, I didn't know nor care about

anybody else like pat Riley played here. Didn't know that, just thought he was the coach of the Lakers. And I can remember thinking, just thinking. I never said it, but I can remember thinking, oh, you guys haven't seen anything like me, apparently, and so I'm telling you I had this mindset. People have never seen a guy run and jump like me. And I wondered, did you feel much the same in football? Because you know your Heisman season, Dude, you had for the most part better numbers in Peyton. Uh,

you end up finishing behind Charles Woodson. No shame in that? Um? What was that season, like for you on the field dream come true. This year a tremendous crop of quarterback talent in the Pac tenant, maybe the deepest ever, and the guy at the top of that class was certainly Fly and leave an athlete first, football player second and quarterback third. Tough, aggressive, emotional Zimbonic of his spicy Cougar compadres.

Every Cougar that's ever gone to school at should State, it's their goal to go to the Roads Bowl, and he's taking little bowl. Um. We used to compare him to Drew Bled, So now everybody's gonna be compared to Ryan Lee. Dream come true. It was easy just step on the field and we kind of had our way with everybody. We were prepared, We knew what we were doing.

We had come together as a team. We were kind of, you know, a bunch of players that were from the Island of Misfit Toys, Guys from j C's and who had problems in high school that probably could have gone to USC and things like that from southern California and we ended up getting them. And I mean just we just played so well together. There's twenty six seniors on the team. Open the year against U C l A and USC beat them both and we were just off

and running. It was It was special, best year of my life when it came to competing with the guys. I competed with um so much fun, so much fun. What stands any any specific place stand out for your teammates in the moment that you think about when you think back about, you know, being on that national stage. Yeah, my offensive linement, two of them were walk on uh my five wide receivers. They called themselves the fab five. You know, my old lineman felt jealous, so they nicknamed

themselves the fat five. Um nice, you know. And then I had we had a tight end and running back and myself. You know, we were balanced. We averaged five and fifty yards of offense three thirty two twenty rushing. We were we were ahead of our time and what we were doing as an offense. I led the nation in passing. I just found that out like a year ago. Doing one of my radio shows. Someone brought that to my attention. I'm like, you serious, Yeah, don't poo poo

that man, that's big ship. Peyton Manning was was in that draft class and I still led the nation passing. No, it was a great year. Everything played out like we and we wanted it to. We didn't quite win the game, but there was a controversial ending a rule change because of it and spiking the ball with the amount of time left on the clock. And so coach Bryce always tells everybody that we didn't lose that game, we just ran out of time, and I couldn't agree with him more.

I want to ask you how you've handled the fame portion of your college career. I know it was a bit of a mixed bag for me, and sometimes I liken it too, you know, being a child actor, because you know, if you're if you're on a show from the time you're eight to twelve, the world knows you like that, and you're kind of that's what they think of you. And you have a chance that you know, you have an arrested development. And I for sure from age fifteen to thirty five, maybe forty five, how did

you handle that fame in college? There was a joke there was a joke that Sports Illustrated ran, what's the difference between God and Ryan Leaf? God doesn't think he's Ryan Leaf? And uh, I thought it was hilarious. You see, and you can laugh at it now. Yeah, I just thought I was better. I just thought it was a better person than you because I could play this silly game that made me a better person, which is you're

exactly right, it's outrageous. It was arrested development, probably like thirteen years old, when I figured out that I had this golden arm that could put me on a pedestal and I could get away with things that other people couldn't. In the consequences weren't the same. And that's where my development stopped. And so my maturity level was like that

of a thirteen year old. So when I went into the NFL and I was the second overall pick and I was given thirty one million dollars, that was like given thirty one million dollars to a thirteen year old. That's how I would liken it to it. And it was that's just a recipe for disaster, period, and that's exactly what it suited. Yeah, yeah, I get it, man, I do. When did you know you were ready for

the draft? You know? I started hearing, you know, scouts when they come talk about how it was between me and Peyton, and I was just like, how's that possible? I'm really, um, where are you that taken aback by it? I'm walking around campus wearing a Danny Wharfel jersey, you know, I'm I'm I'm about to be in the same sentence as him in terms of the Heisman Trophy, you know. So it was a whirlwind, man, and then once it became a realization like oh so this is the Yeah,

this is real. I'm gonna be the first or second pick in the NFL draft, then I was like, Okay, that's about right. That's how it's supposed to be, and I'm gonna act accordingly. I could really see a shift after the Heisman Trophy too, right before the Rose Bowl was played, in like some interviews that I saw, I could see this behavior start to exhibit more. The asshole

prick was starting to really come out publicly. When I go back and I look at these interviews and stuff like that, just flippant uh answers, kind of like a petulant child, and just like, you know, dismissive of everybody and everything. Like if I got a question from a reporter that seemed nonsensical in my mind, I just looked at them like they were crazy, Like what the fun is wrong? With you. Don't you know who I am?

This is not worth my time? Go away. It's hard to say it, but it's so true that it's just like you cannot not say that. That's the truth. And it doesn't cost me anything to to be vulnerable and transparent about it now because it happened and everybody saw it, because it was public. You know, I can only imagine and look, I had depression and I'm sure mental illness growing up. I quit my high school team, you know, as the best player in the state. Probably you know,

I was all over the map I would get in. Yeah, I was. I was dealing with undiagnosed mental health disorders that never knew about. You know, talk a minute about your desire to go to San Diego, all the hype that was going to the draft rookie season. Well, I played on the West coast, on the Pac Ten. I had family who lived in Encinidas, which was just a suburb of San Diego. And you know, I was just like, who wouldn't want to live on the beach, in the on the babes, the money, and not in the middle

of the Midwest in Indianapolis. Uh. I wasn't looking at the right things. I wasn't looking at that. Marshall Falk was in the backfield and Marvin Harrison was out on the perimeter. I wasn't looking at the right things. I just thought I was good enough, flat out good enough that I was gonna walk in there and do exactly what I did. But you don't understand, this is the one percent of the one percent. It's just it's a different animal and unless you're willing to work at it

from Sunday to Sunday. Like every one of us has talent, everybody who gets drafted and gets to that point is talent, some of us a little bit more than the other. Otherwise you wouldn't get drafted as high. But man, you'd open the work from Sunday to Sunday. It it ain't happening that. It makes me think back and the year

that I left college and went to the NBA. Um I went early, long story, we were going on probation, but uh, I left early, and so I was the youngest player in the league my rookie year, and I just remember going, you know, probably went and visited ten of the top teams that were going to be in the draft lottery, and I just remember feeling like a fraud, like I'm pretending to be a grown up here. I would go in. I was wearing a suit that I

had just gotten. I remember being exhausted at the end of the day, you know, after going having to sit with the owner and the GM and pretend to be a fucking adult. I felt like a fourteen year old. And I wonder if you know, because I've seen some of your interviews around that time, and and you know, knowing what we know now, you know, it fills in some of the blanks. But I just wonder, you know,

did you feel some of that going on? Yeah, I was this adolescent with a egomaniac with a self esteem problem. This is what it was, you know. I never felt the self esteem problem, Ryan. I had just been shamed my whole life from so many people, starting with my mother, two my whole state to the media. So I just, you know, I didn't feel comfortable. I thought I was an overweight quarterback. I thought it was kind of like chubby and fat and not attractive, and so I it

was just it was all a persona. It was not there never really me. There was only a few people that ever really truly got to know who Ryan was, and did you know who you were? No, no idea. You know. I was a football player. That's that's all I was worth. Um. I felt like that was my worth and my identity was a football player. I get it. Man. Do you ever think there was a chance, uh, you could have been successful in the NFL? You know, based on the person you were at the time and how

the world had treated you at that point. Maybe, you know, maybe if I get with the right franchise, that just like, accountability was at the forefront, like, hey, you were not going to play. I don't care how good you are, You're not going to play until you are accountable for your actions and we're gonna go figure this out. I really think there are some organizations that are like that systemically,

Pittsburgh Steelers for one of them. But I also think that, and you know you've heard this plenty of times in recovery, like no matter where you go, there you are you know I was the problem. Um, so it may have been my character defects may have been hidden longer, let's say in Indianapolis if I went number one. But don't forget Peyton through the most interceptions ever for a rookie, they only won three games. I won the same amount of games starting as Peyton did in my rookie year,

through less interceptions, not as many touchdowns. Of course, Um, I don't know how I could have dealt with the failure of being three and thirteen or throwing that many interceptions. Right, He learned how to deal with failure in a healthy way. Hey, bro. He also had a dad that that was the family business and just losing and losing and failing. But he played in the NFL and he went through all that stuff.

And he is Stephen and Seth Curry. They grew up around it and they know you know, So you can't be hard on yourself about that. Do you remember a specific time or moment that the game started being less fun for you? Well, I mean I can give you the exact moment my career ended. And it was at Kansas City. We were two and all a rookie quarterback

hadn't won his first two starts. Sine and John Elway and we walked into Kansas City and Arrowhead and I was in the hospital all a week with a staff infection, and I my mom begged me not to play, and I just thought the coolest thing, right, I come out of the hospital. I take my new team on the road at Kansas City against the likes of Derrick Thomas and in that defense and James Hasty and Rich Gannon and we beat the Chiefs on the road. Story to wish for Yeah, I mean, I completed my first past,

played the worst game of my life. And it's not because I played poor Lee. You know, every rookie has to come to Jesus moment in the NFL. It's how I dealt with it. How are reacted to a reporter after the game, a cameraman that then got carried over to the next day by one of the Beat writers who wrote about it, and I confronted in the locker room. And then there's the video when the Internet had just started.

It was like one of the first viral videos. I really think, Uh, you know, you've got Jim Evertt flying across the table at Jim Rome, and you got me yelling at this reporter like a petulant child being pulled away by Junior. Say. I into the shower to cool off, and then I don't remember a positive thing. And I would go on and play for four more years with different teams, but I don't remember another positive thing, and

it's because of how I dealt with it. One moment ended it for me, because of how I dealt with failure. Have you ever talked to him the reporter? Oh yeah, we've had. I've made my amends to him. J Posner is his name, you know, just doing his job. I mean, he he did kind of bait me a little bit, but again, you know, I was I was gonna tell him, you know how it was. I was gonna intimidate um kind of big boyd him got up over the top, which is what we assholes do. Can don't talk to me,

all right, knock it off. I appreciate your honesty, Uh, Ryan, I much the same. I was fortunate that well, I didn't play football. I had never never been able to make it with that sport. But I was fortunate to be traded and be able to handle my stuff enough emotionally where I had a second team you know that I went to because I was a kid, my first stop. And if I could have just played basketball and never had to talk to the media at all, Oh, just

sign me up the problem. Yeah, yeah. Jim Harbaugh was my quarter by backup quarterback year three, he taught me how to be professional. I went on to Tampa Bay with Tony Dungee, Brad Johnson and that team and that defense, and I learned how to be a professional and be a good teammate. Um problem was, I wrecked my wrist that third year in San Diego, falling on the baseball diamond, and so my talent wasn't as good and my talents what could carry in me? You could feel a difference.

Uh throwing the ball? Oh yeah, it still pops out a joint. Yeah, okay, So on deep balls, touch balls, or just in general, any time that that I had to put any kind of velocity on it or I mean it just It was called the scaffoid lunate disassociation. So essentially this ligament on the upper part of your

wrist would dislocate. And my Tampa Bay teammates uh Rande Barber told CBS a story about it back in the days, Like We're playing in a preseason game and they look out at me and I throw this out route and in between plays, I'm I'm running to the sideline like pounding my hand and wrist against my five trying to pop it back into place so I can play the next play, you know. And then that's where I kind of started, you know, being given a lot of pain killers to get through the week. So I'm glad you

brought that up. I was literally the next thing I was gonna ask, when was the first time you you received pain killers in college? You know, I've had fifteen surgeries, orthopedic and others, so you know, the first thing I had was a shoulder surgery in college, and they gave me these um opiate pain killers afterwards, and uh, it worked, right, they killed the pain. That's exactly what their name is. I mean, I liked it, and now I didn't abuse it or anything, and um, but I knew it worked.

And I was really like, I didn't drink in high school. I didn't drink to my eighteenth birthday, really didn't drink in college. Is that except binge drinking just to feel comfortable with people in moments? And um never did drugs, you know, didn't smoke weed, nothing. I was. I thought people that did all that stuff was morally corrupt. So it was just really of it are prevalent at the

NFL level. You get on the plane after a game, they give you a couple of pills and a couple of cans of beer, and you know you you take that edge off on the way home. You take pills till about Wednesday, and then you take your ween off them and get ready to play by Sunday. And that was just a ritual. Wasn't abusing them. I didn't realize that my brain wiring had, like, you know, really liked it because competition was still the drug of choice, always

has been. So when I walked away from the NFL and my final stop in Seattle, because I was unwilling to tell my head coach that I was incredibly depressed. I was tired, I was lazy. I felt lazy, I was sad all the time. I didn't know what was wrong. I just chose to to quit. And so about three months after I had quit or retired, I told people who retires at twenty seven years old, you know, um, I was in Vegas for a fight the because I still needed people to know that I was still a success.

I had the money, the power of the prestige. You know, prestige was a little tarnished, of course with not being in the league anymore. But come on, second, pick like money was ultimately the that was the end all be all? So was that a fight? Tyson fight? They were announcing

the celebrities in the audience, the m C was. They announced Michael Jordan's Tiger Woods, Charles Barkley, Dr Dre You know, the audience cheered and clapped, and m C there at the MGM grand announced my name and like the whole auditorium just booed and hissed. And it's not like that hadn't happened before, right, I mean, you play football, you're on the posing team's field, but you're wearing armor, you

got a helmet on it. My attic brain heard, not only are you a terrible football player, but you are a awful human being. That's what I heard. And so sure enough that night we were gonna go to parties where they were Super Bowl champs and Hall of famers And why are always felt judged and less than and like I didn't belong. An acquaintance of mine offered me some vikad in and I mixed him with the alcohol I was drinking. This would be the first time that I abused it, and I didn't feel any of that.

I didn't feel that judgment. I didn't feel that fear. I didn't feel that less than I didn't feel anything and feel better. But it turns out I was just searching for that feeling of not feeling any of the feelings that I have been feeling for so long. I just wanted to numb out. And that night changed like that would be the next eight years of my life, chasing that initial high from that night of not feeling it.

So you can pinpoint it. You feel like that's the first time you thought I, Well, you couldn't have thought right away I have a problem. No, No, I still I didn't think I had a problem for a long time. I thought I'd do the wrong thing the right way, probably years, three years probably. Yeah, okay, so you were just self medicating, right, I just I wasn't seeing a therapist. I was self medicating, doing the I was going to doctor, you know, telling him I was in pain, which doctor

show was, Yeah, yeah, which I was. I was in some sort of physical plane, but mostly I was an emotional pain. It's pretty amazing, especially back during that time. I'm you know, I'm familiar with it. It's pretty amazing. And again this goes to ego and addiction and everything amazing. The doctor's amount of doctors. You can just cold call, drop your name and we'll give you the medicine. Right, Yeah, you just I mean you've come in with X rays and show you got beat up for a living, and

then you manipulate the situation the best you can. And they got kids, and you're like, I'll sign a bunch of autographs for your kids. Problem. Of course, you're gonna give me a script for nineties with five refill fills. More refills please. In Montana, Leif was accused of burglary and drug activity. In a plea deal, he pled guilty to the charges and agreed to enter a drug treatment program Movie Start or Sports Start. The rules are the same for everybody. He's had enough chances, and I hope

the judge was most saying for James. Farren says he's working to put the former NFL quarterback and WT quarterbacks coach behind bars for the charges he pled guilty too. In Randall County. When you get arrested the first time, Ryan, you're taking fills from college kids to feed your addiction. You know you're working there. They're not. You know you're I don't even think they were paying you at the time.

You're just kind of doing it to get back into the game, and it seemed like for all intensive purposes you were kind of thriving there. Um, what was happening in What was happening in your life? Though? At that point, I was a incredible mess. Just uh hadn't you know, coach these kids up and they were just suxcelling, leading the nation and passing and we were winning. And are you partying at night and stuff? No? I don't party, right,

I don't waste my high on anybody else. It's mine and mine alone, right, So I want to be alone. I don't want anybody else to see. Um, I want to treasure it. It's like a relationship. Like I would say no to dates with beautiful women the cause I had a night set with my pills. I wanted that all to myself, and I didn't want anybody to know I was doing it, you know, that's the bigger thing, right, And so I just self medicated and just kept doing

it until I couldn't do it anymore. And then I had to take advantage of these kids, you know, who looked up to me and respected me. I was this pro football player and they're playing for a Division two football team and they just got hurt. Now here's coach Leaf at my door, going, hey, can I have some of those pills? My wrist is really hurt? And what what do they do? You know, um, they give you some and then they do the only thing they can

do is they call their parents. They're eighteen and nineteen years old, and they go, mom and dad, I don't want to do and mom and dad do the right thing, you know. They contact my employer. Now they also send an anonymous email to ESPN too. But there's consequences to your actions, and mine are public consequences, and it probably is the biggest reason why I'm here in front of you. So I probably saved my life because there are a

lot of us out there. They are going through the same things you and I went through, but weren't held accountable and they just disappear in the shadows and they're gone. And uh so a lot of people, you know, compliment me about how I did it in the public eye, and I'm like, that's saved my life. You know, if it was isolating all by myself, I would have just

died somewhere and no one would have known. My friends often say the same, They say, you know, something had to happen, and you were going to die, and you know, thank goodness, something happened. So the second time you get arrested though, seven years sentence, two years in jail, thirty two months, actually three years, three years almost three years in jail. Um, what was it like in prison? How did you survive it? Don't daycare, not a deterrent, a relief,

didn't go outside a relief? Please continue? Well, I was just every day I'd wake up and do I have pills? And if I didn't, how can I get them? You know? And if I can't be high, I want to be dead. That's where I was. It's so crazy to think that's

where I was. And I gotta remember it. I have to remember it otherwise it's but it's just it's just shockingly because I wake up every morning now and I'm just like, I choose to be happy, you know, I can choose that even it's a bad day and bad ship happens in life isn't fair and we're going through COVID and I lose my job and all this stuff, Like I just I can get up, meditate, and pray, go for a little hike, feel therapeutic in nature, find my higher power, and choose to be happy. And I

couldn't do it. I couldn't go a day without numbing myself out and altering my mood. And I clamored every night in the mirror for somebody to help me. And finally my higher power just I just said, you don't get it, dude, So I'm gonna send the Sheriff's department to help you save your life. And that's what happened. So go through a little bit of uh, you know what was going on in your mind. You had gone to some open houses, you had broken into a couple

of places, and this is in your hometown. Hometown. Yeah, people don't lock their doors, so you just go up and knock on on the outskirts and farmhouses, and you know, nine times out of ten there'll be some pills in the medicine cabinet or in the cabinet in the kitchen. And I didn't go around and collect. As soon as I got him in my hand, like psychological effect, Yeah, I went home. You know, I was done. Okay, my

day's over. Now. I don't have the feeling for the rest of the day, I'll sleep and I'll go back at it again tomorrow. Such just I mean, in the state of Montana, how I didn't get shot in somebody's house. You know. I remember walking into a house one time and going into a bedroom and there was this man asleep on his bed, and I was just like so taken it back because I had like screamed when I walked in the house, like anybody here, anybody here, you know. And then there was a ton of pills in there.

So now I know he was probably an opiate addic and was probably just passed out, you know. So it's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. So, um, until you were sentenced, you were still using the pills, and so when you went in you were No. I never I never bonded out, I got a rest, didn't I never got out. So okay, so you had to you know, you're going through this withdrawal. I bought it out the first time. They got re arrested, uh like forty hours later, and this time they pulled

my bond. Texas revoked my probation from what being arrested down there, and I was stuck there. My parents wouldn't bail me. Out, which was incredibly hard on their part. I can only imagine my mom wanted to take care of her son, but she was so fearful and at this point financially struggling. Yeah, I was broke. I was broke. Yeah, I had lost every single dollar. My credit score was like five hundred. I was, yeah, I've been there, man,

I've been there. Um, so you're going in and you go straight in, and so now you're having to withdraw by yourself. This is not a place they're gonna But I didn't even I was taken at one time a day,

at like dinner time, like you know, hundred milligram. Enough to get a hundred milligrams, I mean, whether that if they were tens or fives, either had to take twenty or or ten, right, And the doctor in prison just said the withdrawal wasn't as bad because it was like it wasn't like all day long, just taking pills all day long to maintain it was like this one thing. So you know, I overdosed the night I went in. They didn't know, but I was just a mess, and

I don't remember anything for about two days. I had gone to court. My mug shot of course, it looks like you know, Tiger Woods is, and I just like knew immediately. I was like, dude, I know what that dude's on, exactly what I was on. And then like three days later, I was just like I was so fearful the psychology of the withdraw, you know, it was

so fearful about. Of course, there was some sweating at night a couple of times, but I mean, it wasn't it wasn't incredibly bad like I've seen it and I've heard it to be. But my mind, my mind was still running like a rabbit or a rat and a maze. You know. I was like, I need to get out of here. I need to figure out a way to get out of here. Give as many pills as I can, ride into the wheels fall off. That's all. There's nothing

else out there, you know. I just still wanted to die or be high and I couldn't do it in there in solitary, confined mint. And then I went through the sentencing process, I pled guilty. You know, I just there's a ton of accountability in my message to the judge. I don't know where the hell at came from. And I was just like warehouse me and uh, that's what he did. And he said it, we're gonna warehouse, You're gonna give you a number. And it was the first

time I ever felt marginalized in my life. I'm cool, you know he did and embarrassed the situation, not only for myself, especially for my family. Yeah, it seems to this community. I found that Davy days in jail has been someone of the sanctuary. I've discussed, you know, with my family, and they believe my PC for ransom for third or six years. I don't understand why I should have to do that no more. I do believe that these fifteen months been conductive for me. I don't believe

that I must have been. For now it's gonna be any different right now. Five Ryan pre Drone, my family and this community. Let's stick to this nation, man, pure bliss. I'm lazy to dis honest selfish. These things are behaviors before my addiction kick doing hate that excuses like professional football or rain tumor or those letters. And I finally

got to read about five days ago. They had a totally different had totally different reactions, and then most people are probably would have I felt that they were all excuses. Well along those lines, based on your experience, you know, what are your feelings on the way we handle addiction in this country, the way we criminalize it, the way we send people to prison and not to treatment. Um, you know, the ease with which somebody can get addicted and the lack of help there is for them. What

are your thoughts well, the stigma stigmas. What did it in the early eighties with the you know, war on

drugs with Nancy and Ronald Reagan? You know that just you know that with the drug war that just made it ramped it up to a place where they built all these government agencies to control and task force and everything like that, and then they built these for profit prisons which I was in, and they incentivized judges and d a's to get prison time because they have contracts with the states that they needed to be or eighty five percent full, and if they're not, they're still going

to pay the rate of it being that full. So it incentivises them to to send non violent drug offenders to prison because you know, they need them full, they need the beds occupied. So there's a reason why we're the largest populated prison system in the world and are like, in comparison, one of the less populated. You know, there's

a lot of things that are changing. I've studied at the ton I've tried to do some lobbying and get some bills passed, and watch what Portugal has done, seeing what Colorado has done around marijuana, and now what the state of Oregon has done around decriminalization of pretty much everything.

And I think that's the answer. I really do. And you know, I'll argue up and down with people about you know, well, people will just be lined up around Walgreen's to get biked in, and I'm like, not everybody's like me, you know, not everybody's like me. You know, I would do that because I'm a drug addict. You know, you can educate, you can tax, you can set up recovery and things like that, and you could end governmental oversight, the DA and things like that wouldn't have to exist.

Drug cartels would be limited. You know, like there's just a lot that could happen in a positive way. I really do believe that the substance being out of my brain in prison has allowed me to articulate. I think the brain tumor that I had cut out of my brain. That was all my brains. I was gonna ask you about that. In two thousand eleven, you had a tumor cut out. How did that change your life? Well, I mean as an athlete, you know, I get hurt, I find a doctor, he fixes it. I moved forward. That's

exactly the way I looked at it. But going through the radiation and like the chemo side of things, because they couldn't remove it all because it was intertwined in my brain stem, and me losing my hair and feeling fatigued and achy and sick, and the doctor asking if you could prescribe me some painkillers and me not telling him anything. Um, it resulted in my relapse. I was eighteen months sober um. He gave him to me December one,

two thousand and eleven. By March thirties, two thousand and twelve, I was in prison because I'm a drug addict, and I just felt I deserved it, so I didn't tell the doctor I had a problem before, and so I just can't have them. I just can't have them. That's the difference. I'm allergic. Uh twins say I love them, And the second I took the first I took oxyconton to begin with, and the second I took it, I felt smarter, funnier, better, nicer, all of it. So I

understand what that yurn is. I get it. Um. You know I've said before, uh, and I'll say again. You're an inspiration man. You had an incredible physical talent ability to play a game that made you famous and rich and all that. But you've constantly been dealt blows your whole life and career, some of it from yourself, some from society in the world around you. I know. But here's what's inspiring. You don't quit. You keep bouncing back, finding new things to try, try to continue to be

a petter person. That's really admirable, right, really admirable. Well what are you supposed to do? You know? Like I've come to this realization, like what am I supposed to do? I'm gonna get up, And I think there's a radical acceptance around being a flawed human being like everybody else

trying to be better. So the only thing I can do is to get up and do the next right thing, because yesterday is something I can't control anymore, take accountability for what I've done, and just try to be part of the solution, and that's been the being a service Rex, And you know this better than anybody. Being a service is you remove yourself from the equation completely and you make it about somebody else in your life changes it does, and that's a foundation of who I am and what

I do. Now it's cannot be about me ever, Again, what keeps you going? Is it that? I don't know what keeps me going? To be honest with you. You know, this past year it's been difficult. There's been another arrest for something that that is a problem in this country with dealing with police. You know, when when you're having

a mental health incident. My and and I are are trying to put a bill in play, um that when you call the police and there's a mental health incident happening, they don't send nine police officers who exacerbate the problem. They send a case worker or somebody who can help. Because all I all it did is make it worse.

You know. I remember them pulling me into the police car and and like racing and following the car to the police station, trying to get him to stop, and them just like, we don't care what you want, ma'am. The state of California wants to prosecute and then you lose everything and you find out who your friends are really, and I think it. I don't know if I'd thought i'd be grateful. You know, it's just about a year ago.

I tell you what, man, I'm incredibly grateful. I found out who my friends are, who know my values, know my character. Well that's good, you know. I I don't even you know, this is the first time we've actually ever met. People might not know that, but I know when that happened, I just reached out, Yeah, just like, hey, you know, hanging there. I don't know what's going on, but uh, you know, you're never bad as your worst moment, Ryan,

if you learn from it. Right, Well, that was That's the perfect example of like you know, in our culture, cancel culture A and then me looking at it, going, what was I'm the same guy as I was one, as I am on May. I'm exact same person, a flawed human being, trying to be better every single day. Nothing's changed, Still wanted to help people, still want to go forward. So what am I supposed to do? Am I supposed to just pack it in say fuck it,

I'm done? You know, I tried, you know, I tried to get back out there and be be of service and be a better human being. You do it, there's no alt and you just you do it. Yeah, you do it. Some people don't do it, though, Ryan, And that's the thing, and so don't I'm my I'm just suggesting, don't just shrug that off, because I do remember sitting in at the worst moment of my life a couple

of times, sitting there and just being so disappointed in myself. Well, I tell you what I think a lot of people thought, I relapsed is what I think a lot of people thought, Oh this most recent time you're talking. Yeah, And if I hadn't have been sober, I don't think I would have had the mindset to deal with something in a healthy, positive way, right, and then to then go through the rest of the year, which is probably one of the hardest years to say sober and get my nine year

ship absolutely on April one, thank you. That made it every bit more worthwhile. And I just decided to take some more control back, you know, start my own show. No one else was gonna let me do it. That's what I was gonna say. What what made you want to do that. Well. You know, Rich Eisen has been an unbelievable support of mine every time he is gone. He asked me to guest host, and I just love

doing it. I love doing it. I mean, you just you gotta love the man who just you know, who knows your values, uh, knows who you are, gives you an unbelievable opportunity when I think probably other people wouldn't. And so I just I wanted to start my own show. I didn't know how to do it. I got a group of guys, three guys who are freshly out of college, you know, software and technology, because I don't um, you know, I put the studio together here. You know, they put

a logo. I did the show right before I came on with you today Monday, Wednesday, Friday, twelve Pacific to one thirty pacific. You know, it's grassroots. Got four sponsors right now, just trying to trying to move forward. And then I also, uh, you know buddy of mine, Kevin Connolly, who owns a company called a p M. It's a podcasting network. Essentially we're gonna start. We just essentially just sold one my life story. It's uh we're calling it

bust and it's my testament, Anneal, it's it. That's it, just thirteen episodes of my story, No holds Barred, Unvarnished. We think we really can help a lot of people with it. And then when we go into season two and season three, you know, I'm gonna reach out to people who maybe you've been in similar situations that I have in all genres of sports, and some of them have gotten through it and can be success stories, and

some of them are still fighting it. And we want to be able to be there to be helpful in away, and we're gonna call it, We're gonna transition into it and called to the Lighthouse podcast because that's as you know, that's what we've become. Yeah, nice, buddy, that's so great. What does football mean to you now? I think it's just one of the greatest things in that's ever ever

been made. Gave me everything. Unfortunately it's caused a lot of people a lot of pain, But I also don't think those that have gone through these struggles would have given it up for anything, you know, I think a lot of times we just want to be informed, Like if the NFL knew about what this does to our brains. I believe I'm living with CT like a lot of my brothers are, and a lot of brothers out there

that are dying. Vincent Jackson just recently and after the super Bowl, and I don't know why that one hit me so hard, but um, you know, the NFL is not gonna do anything, and either is our union. So it's gonna have to be us. Will you let your kids play? No, No, my son's not gonna play football. He's gonna be six nine. So I'm'm gonna give him the rock. I'm gonna give him the rock, either to throw it on a mound or all right, that's what

I'm gonna do. But whatever he wants to do, if he wants to be a dancer or be a construction worker or a fireman, which is what he wants to be right now, as a fireman and a construction worker. So you know, by all means, you know, when you watch the game today, you see these young quarterbacks out there who are kind of almost carbon copies of the quarterback you are fast, athletic, but can throw the ball downfield.

Do you ever see yourself out there now? You know, playing in this era where it's very much different protect the quarterback. I forgot. I forgot just I've been told for how long how bad I was that I haven't looked in this past couple of years. I've looked at old film and highlights and stuff. The game against Indianapolis, my fifth game of the year against Peyton dude, I

outdueled him like crazy. I threw touchdown. I threw this one from like rolling out to my left patcher from home style, like flipped it up to I mean, I was astonished when I watched it play. I'm like, holy shit, you know, why have you believed everybody who has no merit and all this for so long? So I love football. I talked about it all the time. I wouldn't be able to do the job I do now working with

Sirius XM and ESPN and and hosting richest show. Um, if I didn't love football and I love talking about it. But I'm also not in an a war blinders either. Like I'm honest about my assessment with how the NFL handles stuff and the NFL p A and I'm not you know, the propaganda machine isn't doesn't affect me anymore, So that's not lost on me. But I I love what the game does for people, that brings leadership out,

allows us to have real, honest and conversations. We've watched the political landscape over the last two years, three years with Colin Kaepernick and everything. Just I mean, you and I have a really unique experience being arrested as criminals, like real criminals. And I didn't feel for once a fear for my life ever. But any man woman of color who gets pulled over engaged with the police, there's an honest to god fear that they could die that night.

And that's that's the white privilege that we talk about. Yeah, I gotta get it very well. Put Ryan, And you know, if you could do this all over again, if you could go back and talk to twenty one year old Ryan Leaf, what would you tell him. It's gonna hurt like hell, man, but you're gonna be okay and you're gonna be a better man for it. That's exactly what you do differently. What would you do differently? The only thing differently is I would treat people better. That's the

only thing I think I could. You know, I could have still been the asshole and been unsuccessful and mishandled things. But you know, I just treated people so poorly. I think is the it's the bottom line and all this. Are you better with that today? Oh yeah? I mean like the moment I walk into a room now and when I walk up to somebody, I asked him their name. Everybody always wants to talk to me, like Ryan, so great to meet you, and I just immediately stopped. I'm like, well,

what's your name? Because they don't hear that from athletes and stuff like that, because we're all such narcissists, right, So that's like I've I've practiced that, Like when I walk into a room, I make it about the other person, and I asked them how they're doing or what's going on in their life. And you know, I don't need to I don't need to fill you in with my life.

You know, I love my life. But you're usually there to listen to me speak or or something, and and so I want to hear what's going on with you and I want to know your name. That's changed. I could care less back in the day, you know what who you were or what you were and if you were a pretty girl. The only thing I cared about it was whether or not I I could take you home. You know, That's that was it. What's next for you? Ryan? Be the best dad I can be. That's the first

and foremost. It's the best thing I've ever done. I love him so much. And then I just want to continue to to help people. I found that in the pandemic um not being able to travel around the country and speak because of COVID. It finally opening up. I got my vaccine UH finalized yesterday. I'm traveling to Nashville at the end of a and then to West Virginia, two of the you know, Tennessee and West Virginia, along with Kentucky, three of the largest states, have been hit

so ravagely with opiates. I'm gonna go speak and and those two venues back in public, which is huge for me. Just I didn't realize how much a difference that made in my mental health. Giving back like that, it makes a difference. Yeah, I can tell you from personal experience, speaking about opioids. It keeps you honest. It's therapeutic, At least for me, it's therapeutic. And Bro, You've got an amazing story to tell, and hearing it come from you,

it will resonate with people you know. Thanks for joining today. Ryan, I it's been a pleasure privileged speaking with you. I love what you're doing. Man, You've spread a lot of remind me a lot of Ellen de generous and that when I was in president, just like spreading like positivity out there at least to the masses and so hey,

I'm faking just like everybody else. Thank you. Man. Hey, everyone out there, I need you to be sure and subscribe to Ryan's podcast to Ryan D. Leaf Show on the Believe Podcast Network that's b L e a V as well as YouTube as well as you too. I believe you can get the audio version, but on on YouTube you can actually get the video version too. So it's it's it's fun. It's a good group guys, fantastic Brian. I can't thank you enough, Buddy, come back sometime. Hey,

thank you. Anything you ever need you just holler all right. Best of luck too. But with the law charges at least and the tennis and charges, the celebrity charges we came along with from Living Lawless Charge seven all run ins with the long charge Ship Lee, Sin, the Tanis and Paul as a charge is set. The celebrity gank plugs Charge. We came along, but from Living Loves Just Charges is created by Portlay and Control Media is produced

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