Vol. 2: Metta Sandiford-Artest

blight mode and you're definitely fighting. I'm like, please, like, this is five minutes. This is five minutes from the scorer's table. You were over and removing yourself from the situation, trying. You're not backing away from a fight. Ben is not backing away from a fight. It's not going back away from a fight. I'm like, rough, what the hell? God, don't stuff at me. Welcome to Charges. I'm your host, Rex Chapman. My guest today's meta Sandiford artest a k A.

Metal World Peace. He's an NBA champ, mental health advocate and someone I'm proud to consider my friend. Hailing from Queensbridge, New York. His story career has been checkered with roadblocks and missteps, but he's overcome those things and has inspired millions of others along his path. Today, we'll discuss, in his words, the infamous Malice at the Palace, the circumstances leading up to it, as well as the consequences and

the aftermath. This is a fantastic interview and I hope you all will enjoy this episode of Charges with Rex Chattan. Thanks for joining me, Meta, I really appreciate this, bro, absolutely. Man, it's really cool being here. I remember when you first started on Twitter and I was just like scrolling through Twitter and I was just like, Wow, this is pretty funny. And then the next day I'm like this is really funny. So that I just started following you, I'm like, yeo,

this is crazy. This is like world star hip hop. Like you're just a world star hip hop by yourself. You know what's funny about that, man, is that the very first time somebody this was a couple of years ago and somebody I was around the Phoenix Suns and you know, most of the guys in the locker room were black, and uh, somebody said, man, have you followed Rex's Twitter and uh, they were like, no, why why is it any good? They said, Now, it's great. He said,

it's it's world Star for white people. Yeah, it's crazy. It's like and I'm sure you you probably follow a world Star maybe also, Oh yeah, for sure. You know, it's like really cool man. I was just like, I mean, it's just like you never I've never seen this from a basketball player, you know, that is that entertainment. I mean, we got shock Shock is really funny. But he has like a big platform. But I'm talking about every day pure comedy. Like I'm like, where do you get your

videos from? I want to ask you, where do you get your videos from? I thought you had this big media company you get all the best video. Man, so many people send me stuff now I wake up. And it was kind of hard find him at first, you know, people sharing stuff and then people just start sending them. I'm like, man, this is great. And so you know, nothing better than putting a couple of smiles on people's faces throughout the day. You know, pick my spots to

be serious, you know, right right right, I did. I did see a couple of nice ones where you know, you were kind of getting after and not after, but maybe add a little politics in there sometimes. But right, really cool, alright, Matta, tell me about growing up in

Queen's Bridge. Well, you know, um, you're growing up at queens was really interesting because you know you got mc shan from Queen's Bridge, Molly mall who produced records for carass One, Big Daddy Kane, um, and the list goes on right and then comes along Nasty Nas from our neighborhood, component Riega, Marv Died, Roxane, Shanta and all the you

know and just all a list of amazing artists. Then you have people like hand Carter, who's from my area, who just recently had a hospital wing named after him in Uptown. You probably played in the Welchair Classic before. Maybe you played in the Welchair Classics. Probably did, right, Yeah, that's hand Carter. Hand Carters from Queensland's Projects and that program was you know, started to help paraplegics. But you know,

another big success story. Then you have Verne Fleming. I played against vern absolutely so being Verne Fleman are like distant relatives because his niece has a baby with my cousin when my first cousin they have a baby together. Vern's got that real high voice to big point guard too, could do everything. Verne was tough man, real tough. I mean, he's the Olympian gold medalists and he's right from my same block. I mean the blocks where I've seen Compone

from Noriega in the street shoot at people. You know, blocks where I've seen um one gentleman died from being choked by police officer. We from that block. You know. Vern is from the trenches. And then you've got Sean Green. Sean Green played for the Indiana Basis. He's from nas block. It was a guy that I played with back home, back in the hood. His name is Terminator and Terminator. He used to drink old e at the Roga part

during the game. That was his game. So all forty forty forty I've seen him get forty off the glass, off the glass, tear drop off the just nice terminated and he's about thirty forty years old. Should have been an NBA. But he was like unbelievable talent. This is like this is all one hood. So what was it like for you as a kid though, navigating that world? Because you see some success mixed in there and you see a lot of people that are struggling. How do

you negotiate that? As a kid growing up there, man, you just like I mean, I had my fash yet opportunities where I would dibble and dabble and then I said, okay, I'm not gonna get involved. But I always got back involved in something. But I always got lucky. I always

somehow avoided fully getting involved. And it's mostly like either you're gonna deal drugs, maybe go down, smoke a lot of weed and didn't really hurt your athleticism, and different things that can hurt you, violent stuff, getting involved, robberies and different things. So it's like you always have a decision to me because most of your friends is like somebody want to go to the store. Somebody might want to rob somebody, right, Like which friend do you go

with today? You know? So that was pretty much the bulk of it. You know, you talked about and you've been very open. And when I say that, I try to be with my past. You know, I've had my struggles, as you know, because I know it can help people and the more vulnerable you are, so I appreciate you talking about this stuff and I know some of it is is difficult. You know, you talked about being an anger management as a kid. You know, why were you

placed in anger management? You know, what were some of those things that you were doing that you know, cause that action to happen. So I have a history of mental health issues in the family, and a lot of it has to do with not chemical. It starts out with depression and anxiety and the body. If you become stressed, that could kill you. Stress triggers not only health problems. Stress.

I let you know, if you have high blood pressure, cholesterol and it exposed it, so when you power it on top of each other, that could turn into other chemical reactions also. So I don't know where it's stemmed from. But you know, my dad definitely has some issues. My auntie who just passed away from COVID, she was in a psychiatric award for years. Yeah, thanks a lot of thanks. She's in hospital for thirty years, psychiatric ward, you know,

and then we had different things. So with that being said, I was a kid where even if I was a normal kid, because most people in my neighborhood knowld me for being nice, very polite, you know, to the females and to the people Um, but I had different things that I've experienced, you know, so sometimes you'll see it come out, like a couple of times I had a fight in the hood where it just like I got tired of something. I just started punching and fighting right

because just exploding. Then too many times that happened. So is that chemical imbalance or is that experiencing a little too many things? You know what I'm saying would have happened at school ever, or would have manifest itself on the playground, or had fights in school I have. I got suspended and um preschool. First time I got suspended, I was like full yeah, And then um, kindergarten. I

got spent every year in school. And then when I got to the South Academy, which is a Catholic school, I got suspended my first year there U thirteen games. And then I didn't get suspend it anymore. I got the St. John's got in trouble a little bit, destroyed my Javis office. Mike Jervis and I go way back, you know. He coached Ramille Robinson and Patrick of course,

and Patrick and I go way back. But Mike coach Ramil Robinson in high school and then then he went on and Ramille and I were the same class McDonald's game and all that stuff. And then he went on to coach at Boston. You and my freshman year at Kentucky we played Boston you and in our building. So I know Mike for a long time. He he was a good man. Yeah, Mike is a great guy. His wife, you know, his wife is amazing. I was sick one day. She cooked soup for me. She brought me chicken little soup.

Probably I had the flu. Isn't that amazing though? I mean, you remember that that, that's what you remember this day. That's good stuff, man, I mean, because that's she didn't have to do that. You were just a kid, you know, she didn't. And that's the kind of stuff that you know, you can look back on and when you're being recruited, you know, and and he says, look, we're gonna take care of him like his family. He means it. He means it. And that's a good man. You know, what,

did you ever want to go? You you end up at St. John's, Um, did you want to go anywhere else? I almost was at Miami. That was just so what happened was I was committed to Miami University because I wanted to be an architect. So when I did my first five visits to Providence, Rhode Island, Miami, Ohio, Nordredame, Miami, and St. John's. So I didn't want to go to Providence or Rhode Island or St. John's because they didn't have architecture. Nordre Dame and Miami architecture. So Miami, Ohio

had Wally Zerbiac. I was a big fan of Wally right because he's from New York City. And then, um, so I took that visit and then uh, Providence has him. Got else? I played with Sham guard Wells, so I was like, man, I'm thinking about going here. Um I think Sham went to the NBA after that, I think, And then so St. John's New York City, you know. So then when it was coming down to it, I

was going to Miami. Then I made the last Literally the same day I was announcing on MSG that I was going to Miami, I decided to go to St. John I announced I'm going to St. John's and just stayed on I was going to Miami. I just stayed home because I wanted to win the title. Man, I want to win a title for St. John's. Felt like you had a little better chance there, right, Well, not a better chance. It was just fighting for the city, you know, because me being from New York is a

different experience than somebody else me. I wanted to win because I'm from New York. Were proud and St. John's has never won a title. And if I'm competitive, then I'm gonna stay at St. John's if I'm truly competitive, which I wanted to go to the Knicks. Also, you wanted to be an architect. Yeah, really what prompted that? I mean from what age? Well, when I was thirteen, I wanted to be a junior high school math teacher.

And I knew like junior high school math teacher they make thirty about thirty five grant at that time, So I did that. I said, Okay, I'll just be a junior scho math teacher, teach thirteen year olds and then help a thirteen year old. I remember at that age is when I was going through a lot. So I

wanted to build community centers. From my neighborhood. We had a community center called the Rees Jacob Center or Jacob Rees Center, and it was donated from some people overseas, and I remember wanting to build this and make it way better. So I said, I'll just be an architect and I could just build a community center. And that was the whole reason that I got into it. That was the whole reason I started taking math serious. But

I was in between a lot of different things. Education, basketball, streets, um, so many different things. Was in a way, you know, I didn't like really focus. Well, you know what I can tell you. I had some friends that wanted to be architects, and neither one of them, but both of them didn't end up becoming architects, and they went to school full time and didn't play basketball. Going to school for architecture and playing a sport, any sport at the

same time, is pretty damn tough. It was extremely difficult. Yeah, those courses are no joke, you know. I took the bunny courses. I mean, when I first did my first class, I saw I went to St. John. St. John's didn't have architecture, but they had some classes got could lead to it. So when I started taking my first classes, I was doing it. But then the practices were fran Faillo was at five am right so Franny and you gotta be warm, like you gotta be ready, be loose,

be loose, have m I love Franny crazy. He pushed me to the limit. That's great. But I see the same way. You know, you watched college basketball. Jimmy Dikes, who does the games for ESPN, he was my assistant coach, and at Kentucky he was assistant coach for Eddie Sutton. And I can hear his voice to this day, you know, in the car behind me because I didn't go to class and I'm having to run seven miles before practice and all that stuff. You know, they were hard on us,

book man. We needed it. I needed it, you know, much the same run I i quit my high school team. I was the best player in the state. Equip my high school team. Just like I got mad at the coach, got mad at the coach. I would blow up. I got suspended in school, I got in fights in school. I would get too emotional. I would get too emotional to something that. And of course, you know, back then too, people didn't talk about mental illness. They didn't talk about depression.

You know, looking back, I was for sure starting to suffer from depression when I got to college because I remember people looking at me being like, oh, he got everything. People don't understand. You don't just show up one day at the University of Kentucky or at St. John's for you all of a sudden. You just appeared for me, you're playing at St. John's. I'm like that, dude's good.

But you appeared. And we don't put a lot of thought into it, and especially I think many of us in society, we just look at athletes as when they show up. And there's eighteen years before all of that happened. And that's what I'm so appreciative that you're willing to talk about it. Let's jump to the NBA. He stayed a year at St. John's, right, and you're if I'm not mistaken, your first year was nine nine two thousand. That was my last year. And I remember us coming

to play you guys. I want to say Elton Elton Brand was maybe your guys. He's the man, right, right, And I remember we played you and I wasn't really playing a whole lot at that point. I wasn't very good, but I remember watching you and just being like, oh my god, this dude is strong, long, and you could

hold and grab more back then too. Yeah, and yeah, and you could guard you know, well really everybody, um, you know, every position, and you really didn't have much offense yet you didn't have the confidence you could do it. But I was like, man, once this dude figures that part out, it's a rap. So let me ask you your nineteen when you came in, right, I was too. I was the youngest player my first year at Kareem was the oldest player about that. He was forty one.

But so let me ask you, you come in at nineteen, when did you feel like you made it in the NBA. My third year at Chicago, I felt like I was ready because I was playing well and I was like, okay, yeah, this is about to happen. I'm about to really, you know, basically work myself to my first contract and I'm playing better, So it was way more encouraging. Yeah, I was averaging about fifteen right before I got traded from the Bulls, and that's from you know, the previous year at eleven

and twelve, and then went the fifteen. So I'm like, okay, keep working and that you know, maybe next year the eighteen, Maybe next year be twenty and they just kept going up, so I was getting better and better. Yeah, it was a fast progression once you kind I mean, you know, half the battle is being able to compete physically. You know, if you can't compete physically, then it's really hard. In this league. You could always do that, and then you

had I came in the other way. I was real light and thin for most of my career, and I had to learn to be more physical and too. You know, I was trying my whole life trying to go to the basket and not get fouled and lay it in instead of doing hit, getting hit and lay it in. So there was a lot well, because you started attacking more. He was attacking the rim and how is that. I'm sure you got put down a couple of times, but

you would fight back. So they if somebody's gonna put you down, they risk REX getting in their face, and they risk punch in the face. Yeah. Man, you know, I I don't know where that came from, Probably from my dad, because you know, he was I never played good enough. I never played well enough. I remember coming home one day, Rod I had like forty seven points and he coached his own team. He coached A Division two teams, so he didn't get to see me play

very much. But it was my junior senior year in high school and I had like forty seven and fifteen and like ten blocks, and you know, we're not playing very good competition around here anyway. But I came home that night on the bus and I was like, oh, man, he can't be upset about this. And I walked in nothing. He didn't say anything. I walked behind him, asked my mom, is he okay? What's going on? She went, I don't know. I don't know. I walked back in there. He didn't

say anything. Finally I said, what do you think? And he went, oh, you want to know what I think. I want to know when you're gonna take a fucking charge, you're ever gonna take a charge? Yeah? Yeah. See. So that was part of my stuff too. So I like he was never physical. He big like us. I mean, he's big, but he was. He had me perfectly wired to go to college. He played in the with a B A, so he he had been around, but he had me perfectly wired to go to college and expect

to not play. You know, I thought I was gonna have to go in and I did, and you know, I only weighed like a hundred and sixty pounds, so I was gonna have to go. He said, I hope they don't red shirt you, and I stid, Yeah, I hope they don't either. But yeah, so we all have our stuff and our upbringing, and I think that really shapes us. So now you're playing, well, you're m in Chicago,

but you're traded. You're traded Indiana. Now for me personally, I remember, you know, my whole life, everybody always just wanted me. They wanted me on their team. And so I've spent three and a half years in Charlotte and then the Hornets traded me to Washington, and I remember kind of having my feelings hurt. I was kind of excited, but I was also it hurt my pride a little bit, and I felt like, So tell me about for you, how to being traded for the first time. How did

that affect you? Yeah, I mean being traded, you know, it was tough because like my favorite team growing up was the Chicago Bulls. You know, a favorite team growing up was the Bulls. And then when you get traded and you worked really hard on the court, you know, to make it to the NBA and you go to your favorite team met Michael Jordan's I mean that's just like that's a dream come true. And then when you know it's over, it's like and I knew I would

never go back, and I left on bad terms. I was twenty one when I got traded, maybe turn twenty two and pretty much a head case. I was a head case there right, so I knew it was over. I got traded in Miami. I was on the bus. They told me you traded, and he was like okay. They said, don't shoot, don't get dressed, because you know, when you get traded, they don't want you to shoot. They want you to just you're done. And I didn't listen.

I said, no, I'm in Miami. I'm gonna get my last couple of shots, and I wanted so I put my game uniform on and I just shot the whole time. When I just had a nice little practice pregame session, went hard and just really cherished a moment like you know what, you messed it up, but you know, just be grateful you was here with the bulls. So I just went hard. I shot until they came back out at forty minutes ago. You know how much they gonna

come out, You come out about twenty minutes. So I just kept shooting, and when the bulls came back out, then I went in the back and I was on my way to Indiana. And then that when I went to Indiana, Vern Fleman was the coach. Oh that's I forgot about that. He was the assistant coach. And I never met Vern when I was younger, and I always was upset about that because I'm like, you know, I heard so much about Vern Fleman, and you know, Queens was the wild place. So that he's got a twin brother,

and he got a twin Vern and Vic. Yeah, they both was nice. They both was nice, you know, but queensbrid it's just such a unique place where you know, you grow up in a lot of friends. Is the biggest federal housing project in America. So you Verned Fleman, you probably know a lot of people, so I can get white. He didn't come back. So anyway, when I got to uh Indiana and he passed me the bull,

I'm just thinking about my idol. This is my idol, Like this is the guy that I wanted to be, Like, this is the guy, and I know he had the gold medal. I thought I should have had a gold medal because when you're the defensive player of the year and you don't get invited to the Olympics and you was all start with you a right. So the first time I didn't get invited to the Olympics, I said, man, that's a shock. What year was that? Two thousand four? All right, so let me ask this. So this was

two thousand four, what year were you traded? I was trading in two thousand two. I was going through a lot. I was still let the league in flagrant fouls all that. Okay, So at this point when you got passed over for it, do you feel like you were passed over? Because is the powers that be thought you were a head case? Well at that in two thousand and four, I didn't know. Now I meanwhile, I was an Olympican in high school.

I was on the USA team in high school. Sold you know, I'm primed to go to be a USA team in the NBA. So at that time, I didn't know nothing about the Olympics. I just thought you just go. So I said, oh, they passed me. Kobe's playing a couple of my brother Kobe, a couple other people playing, so I didn't question it. But then in two thousand and eight, when nobody picked my phone call up, I called my agents. I was like scrambling. I'm like, yo, the Olympics is a month from now, and I don't

even know I'll take somebody's spot. Like I knew they had Lebron, they had me. Richard Jefferson said, listen, give me a tryout. I'm taking somebody's spot. It's gonna be the easiest thing. You have them right and literally, and my agent told me he was like, listen, because of your history, people didn't want you to play on the team, and it wasn't taking me. So I felt like I wasn't right because the Olympics and the NBA, it's like it doesn't have anything to do with each other. As

a player, I deserve to have a tryout. I say, don't even pick me. Just let me go into practice and just snatch somebody's spot really easy. And then two thousand twelve came. I was older, but I was like, man. But then right after that then I had another incident in the NBA. I guess I didn't really deserve it. You know, I wasn't like the professional but you know,

but what I'm gonna do? You know, But I really I called myself an Olympian because it's no way that I'm not an Olympian, you know, But I just didn't make the team. Man. Incredible. Um, all right, So your first season when you got there, you're with Reggie Miller, who kicked my ass for years. Um, you're there with Jermaine O'Neil. My rook my rookie. Did you know this? My rook Stevie Jackson. Stevie Jackson. Stevie was drafted that right out of high school. He didn't go to college. Remember,

uh funny story uh ange Danny Ainge drafted him. They and Brian Colangelo. They drafted him with the Sons. Well, we were stacked. I was playing and Steve Nash was playing, Jason Kidd, Kevin Johnson. There was no he he wasn't making the team. But he came into camp and I had never seen anything like it. He had When you and I were playing, you just took what the defense gave you. And now guys have prepackaged moves that they

got right. And Stevie was one of the first people I ever saw, you know, have that kind of stuff, you know, like people talk about the and one game, you know, just the handles, the crazy handles. And I remember one day in practice, Stevie went to cross me up. He threw it real hard. It bounced off his left shin and back into his right hand, and I fell down, fell down, and he was just standing there. I was like what he he knew he was He did it

on purpose. He bounced it, hit the floor, hit his left shin, bounced back up into his right hand, and I fell down and everybody started laughing. Of course they did. And then we had to have him show us how to do it, and of course none of us could do it. We we looked idiotic. But then Stevie got cut and but he was my rook there for about a month, and that's where I got to know him. Then he went and made his way back, got his

chance with Byron Scott. I was so happy. But I'm gonna get into some of that with you, So let me ask you. You had three different jersey numbers in Indiana, fifteen three, and why what were those about? Well, fifteen was my number, and that's like my personal number, and it's called his number. It's Carmelo Anthony's number. You wore it a St. John's correct. I wore that St. John's ward in high school, and then you know, I became I always just tried to distract myself from the NBA

because I just couldn't sit still. So I said, you know what, I'm gonna change my number to all my favorite players. Michael Jordan's just came back, and I'm just like, this is insane. I'm literally about to play with Michael Jordan against Michael Jordan. And I played against Michael Jordan previously in the summertime, uh in Chicago. Then that number said, I'm gonna be an All Star in the champion of Michael Jordan number, So I'll change my number of twenty three.

This is Lebron James rookie. Yeah, the only yell Lebron Dame make the All Star Game. Right. So I'm like, I'm the best defender in the league at this point, and I got Michael Jordan number. My offensive game is coming also, right, and Michael Jordan's an amazing defender. That's my favorite part of Michael Jordans. I watched him play defense. So twenty three was just to honor him. And then Robman. That's Robbins, like my favorite player. Like that's so dope.

I had no idea about that. And in fact, I'll tell you you know, we as players, especially when you're playing, you don't want to give it up to anybody. You know, when Michael was playing, I played every year against Michael, came in after him, and I left before he left. So he was different. You know, his hands, that was a whole different deal. You know how big is hand. Watched the game, he couldn't. He didn't punk me, but he kicked my you know. Yeah, but here here's what

I'll say. You know, there are guys and that's what I want. I want to get into the defensive part with you. There are guys. You know. Michael was so competitive too, and you know there are times, you know, you get guys on a pump fake and then you go and you're dunking it right, one dribble and you're dunking it. I can think of about three times in my career that you know, I gave him a perfect head and shoulder fake, and that against anybody else in

the league, Clyde, Glenn, Rice, it didn't Reggie. It didn't matter. I was wonder able dunking it. And three times at least he went, he lunged, he's out of the play, got back to rip it from me somehow when I went to gather. I mean, he was just different and his competitiveness. He didn't have to, you know, Clyde might have just gone over into the bench and been like, you know, not Michael. He didn't want to be showed

up on any play ever. But I know you played the same way, you know, And I was an offensive player for the most part. I tried to hold my own defensively. What is it, like you said I was by that time, I knew I was the best defensive player in the league. What is that confidence? What does that feel like going out there? You know, there was pressure on me to put the ball in the basket. You know, um, I can't imagine. You know, every defense hinges on you, and that's a lot of pressure. But

it also has to feel great. It did, man, Like you know, I could. I could score the ball in high school, college and NBAS at different levels. So I had to figure it out. I wasn't ready to scoring an NBA And so after that point, in time. But when I was ours in twenty four, that's when I had Steve Jackson. Before Steve Jackson, I did have our Haarentson. Our Haarentsons are great different. I was always guarding the

best players. So most of my energy, you know, I was trained not to let somebody score, because even when I was in high school, I used to hold people to zero two points and I didn't in the NBA to I help people to two points zero three all stars, that's insane, insane. I was actually like crazy, like how am I doing this right? This is crazy? Bet you were? I bet you were, because people don't understand. I mean, if you don't get your average in the NBA, it's

a bad night and you're holding people to two and none. Crazy. Yeah, it was just insane. And then but so I always had that. It wasn't even a pressure. I had the responsibility, but I also wanted to guard. I wanted to go so I often with waste so much energy on defense. I wouldn't have no energy fired. God. See that's just the opposite of me. Maybe that's why my teams didn't win.

But once I got Steve Jackson, average go up. When I had Shane Batty twenty two in the playoffs when I had Johnny Salomon's average twenty and night because they was always taking the best place I could take possession. That's so great, man. Yeah, let's take ourselves back to November nineteen, two thousand and four, in Auburn Hills, Michigan to the Malice at the Palace. This game was the first time these two teams played since the Eastern Conference Finals,

which the Pistons won in six games. The cooks in the kitchen butting heads were Ben Wallace and run our test, two of the toughest in the game. With forty seven seconds left in the game, all hell broke loofs right out tests and be serious and they don't get the trade. How our tests jumped over the schools table and just trying to get down to the bench. Our test is in the stance is going out of these This is the space. All right, We're gonna get serious for a second.

So when everything seemed to change, you're an Indy, you're playing really well, All Star in two thousand four, Defensive Player of the Year. You're in the conversation at this point for the m v P. Right, I mean you're playing that well, the team is stacked. Then the big moment at Auburn Hills. Walk me through the day, Uh, if you can that day as much as you can remember, was there anything going on in your life that you Okay, just walk me through what was going on at that

point at the palace. But even though something was going on that time, it had nothing to do with that guy throwing something at me. I could have been having the happiest day of my life in Disneyland and somewhere and I would have been like pissing through something. But what happened. So in August I was thinking about retiring. I was twenty three. So in August I started to because even that summer I was like stressed the whole time. I was just going through a lot. You were thinking

about retiring at twenty three for what reason? You know? I felt like, Um, I wanted a year off from having to do too much, just relaxing, and I wanted to focus on of my family because I felt like when I made it, I wasn't focused on my family as much. I'm like, you know, I gotta get back to my family, like you know. And that was It was a lot of different things that was happening, and I felt like being away from my family. I'm not working all my family. I could have managed it, but

I mean one could have managed it. I just couldn't manage it right like I would have preferred to. So, you know, I just saw I called the NBA and about October, maybe September, and I said I want to retire, thinking of a month. I remember speaking to a couple of people and they were like, what, what well you want to retire? You why I've beture? I said, I need my papers, like send me the retiring papers. What

do I gotta do? And this is like right when I signed my contract and then they was gonna send in my papers. I actually got the papers, you know, to just resire, but it was still on the table for me to stay. And then you know, I spoke to it to my family members. They said everything's gonna be okay, b all right. I spoke to my family and said, okay, cool. So I didn't retire. Grandma passed October. So when she passed, I take a trip to Miami. I go down to um I just leave the season.

I just go party in Miami. I went down to Sauce Awards. So my grandma passed, but I changed as a staple in our lives, you know, and I was like going through a lot, so I kind of let us some steam came back and then, um, I was practicing every day, and that's something I Meanwhile, that's summer. Larry Bird was in the gym every day with me, Larry Burn Chuck person, that's who I was working with.

I wrote my average going from eighteen first nine Games of Marriage in twenty four because I'm listen, I'm looking at Larry Burgh every day. Listen our call Larry, like, how do you do this? I watched your tape, I'll say, because I was watching Larry. Then I come back to practice and he's there like, okay, just do they just attacked elbow win every day going full speed. So Larry had a lot to do with how good I was. That's awesome, all right. So if you're at the palace,

that game was physical, really physical. Before we get into that, go back, what was going on, you know, say, the night before that morning, Um, as much color as you could give to the day, I guess, well, I mean I just had a therapy session the day before, so I was already. I was already in therapy every day,

your own therapist. It was actually just suggested it came from Chicago when I was When I was in Chicago, I already started therapy and my rookie year, that's great, And I was I was fighting with the therapist a lot. I was always fighting with them because I was always like, you know that's what I say, right, Well I got this. Also, I was in trouble and quit my team all the time, so I didn't need it. Yeah, I didn't need it.

I do well good? All right, so you had therapy the day before and then what Yeah, well I was good. I was going through stuff. I was practicing. When I fouled Ben Wallace, I was like the first thing in my head, I'm like, damn it. But it wasn't a hard foul. We we've seen thousand and eighties. But when you're down twenty points and Ben Wallace, pops just died. When you're down twenty points and then metaloral peace, Ronald chest you know a guy that's tough like you, you

want to show it yet, ye, let's do it. It's a perfect opportunity to fight. Did you know that his dad had passed. You know, I didn't know his dad passed that. I didn't know. I I you know now that you said it, I remember it, but I I didn't know that at the time. Yeah, I didn't know that. And so somebody told me because I was always mad at him, like because he I feel like he overreacted. I'm with you, And here's why I'm with you. And I know Ben, I go way back. He been played

against my dad's college teams. He played at Virginia Union D two. Yeah, and so I saw Ben, I saw Ben playing college. How was he? Was he good? He was just like he is now, just beating everything up, or like he was when he played, just chiseled, beating everything up, dunked everything, couldn't really shoot it, all of that. He was just a man. You know, somebody messed up and let him go to Division two because he's a

great dude. But you know what stood out to me about that play and that foul was that you filed him. Ben reacted and now you're over on your own, and that seemed to be a different round ar test in that moment because I could see something sort of going on in your head that you didn't want to fight with Ben. You know, it wasn't about that. You you'll fight anybody, but you didn't want to. You were over

and removing yourself from the situation. And whether you you know, you were on the store's table or where you were trying your best. Okay, So at that point, what do you remember next? Well, you know, I just w I went to the scores table because my thing was Ben wanted to punch me, here to punch me. He didn't punch me. Codes I'm just gonna back up right, because back in the days and the eighties, you punched somebody

in the face. That's why I knew there was something else there, because you're not backing away from a fight. Ben is not backing away from a fight. He's not going back away from a fight. He's not going back away. And you know, even if you were in the wrong, I know you and I know me too. So when you were over there by yourself, I was like, good, he's separating himself from the situation. I was proud. I mean, I jumped on shock back, my rookie year shot went

after Brad O'Neill and me and Oakley. We jumped on shock Back like I'm a writer. But at this time I was just trying to like, Okay, I want to win a title and I want m v P. That's what I'm thinking. So I was like, don't mess it up. So when I got to the scorer's table, you know, I was just chill, like I asked Stephen Jackson, Jamine on there like Jamal, They're not letting nothing happen to me, right, because that's how we are, even though he was a differences.

But so I said I would be on the scorls table. I'm literally not worried about nothing. And then I got Anthony Johnson and David Harrison, UM and Jamal Tensley and Jeff Foster. You don't understanding this, Indiana pays the team. I'm not worried. I'm totally not worried. Um. I got a bunch of pit bulls, Jamison Brewer, all pit bulls. But Mike, I thought that maybe it'll be an ejection, you know, you know something, it's like poop, You're out of here. I'm like, please, like, this is five minutes.

This is five minutes on the scorer's table. Man. So I was and then my me and my therapist we were talking about when anything goes wrong, go to a happy place. Because I was trying to figure this out. I didn't even know what my happy place was when we first started therapy. So we was like talking about kids. I'm I'm like, I was, okay, I'm going to a happy place. That's not happy place my kids. Okay, So I think about my right So I think the happy

place was my kids. So you go and when something's about to happen, okay, think about your kids, thinking about your kids. You know what I'm saying. And then, um, when I got hit with the cup, that happened so quick. I didn't expect that because when I got hit with the cup, so I wish I was facing the other way because when I got hit with the cup, I've seen a guy who hit me, and I was wearing that direction. That's why what I seen im boo boo boop. I was doing four seconds, three seconds. And then I

heard somebody on the way there. But the guy that raises hen, he was like, oh, you hit him, You hit him. And when I talked to John Green later, the guy that actually threw the cup were cool. Now. So when I talked to John Green, John Green told me the whole story. The guy who raises hid bet John Green fifty dollars that he couldn't hit me with the cup. Oh you know what I'm saying. And then that was the story. The guy bet John Green fifty

dollar he could hit me with the cup. So when John Green hit me, the guy was like, oh, I you fifty dollars. That's why he raised his hands. Oh my god, I owe you fifty dollars. You did it, you did it, you did it. Oh my Oh no medicine. Oh that's what's happening. Oh man. And then John Green was like, oh, I know you owe me fifty dollars, but this guerrilla is coming up here. So you've seen John Green. John Green was like, he let you go. You're looking at it right. I didn't do it. I

didn't do it. I didn't do it right right right in that moment though, when that cup hits you, I'm just trying to put myself in your spot, you know, because you're trying to talk yourself down. You're going through you know, four or five six years of you know, you've been working, you've been working in mental health and your work in progress, and look there's twenty thou people, you're trying to get to the next round. This is

a game. Yeah, we're entertainers all that stuff. I can only imagine that in that moment it had to feel a humiliating but be had to feel like a punch being on at you, or a bunch of punches being thrown at you, like the whole world is coming down. I mean at my wrong. I was pissed. So what happened? So after being pushed, me and I relaxed. So then Been, have you ever talked to Been since that? I did? I actually did for the first time when and um fifteen years or sixteen years, I hit him up on

Instagram and so I wanted to interview him. He didn't come to an interview, but then he gave me has nobody. I texted him you know what I'm saying. I texted, I'm a big fan of thing. I'm a big fan because me and him was fighting. At one point in time. It was me and Been the best defenders in the league. A couple other people were thinking, but they want to get out of here with me and been the best defenders in the league. When I got suspended and he

wanted defense player year again. That's again, that's your fault. You know what I'm saying. I wanted defense player the year from in between the guy he got four thos. I was right in between that. I got right in between it. Man. Man, I'm so glad you talked to him though. That that's so big man. I mean, you know, look, we get older and our pride is different and uh you know you own your stuff. So um, that makes

me happy to know you. I was happy too. I was happy too because I have nothing against the beard. He's been Wallace. Man. We got issues because the reason I don't like Ben because he's a hell of a defender. That's the only reason. That's it. That's right. Ain't nothing else, ain't nothing else. So now the cups hit you and you're you're in fight or flight mode and you're definitely fighting.

So do you even remember what's going through your head as you're you know, jumping over the railing and into the stands. So Ben hit me. He took off his head band, he hit me. I'm like okay. He took off his wrist band. He hit me, Like, man, it's crazy. He take off his elbow. Man hit me an eye, And I told it rough. I'm like rough. If you look at the whole thing, I'm like, rough, What the hell man? The guy throwing stuff at me, you know, and I go back and lay down. Reggie Miller got

his arm on me, my brother, Reggie Miller. Then I get hit with the cup. Enough is enough, enough, enough is enough. And it's amazing how people still don't talk about that part. People do not talk about that. It's amazing, but it's okay. It's okay. But it's also healthy for people to hear this, because, look, man, we are all human and we all respond to things way differently. And you know, I know you've got years to look back

on this now, meta, but you were young. You were really young, and being put in in that kind of position is very difficult, and I don't know many people that that would handle it. You know, we're out there and we take a lot of pride in what we do, you know, and the last thing you think is that somebody is ever at a sporting event gonna throw something at you. But that's not the first time I was hit, I'm saying. But still in the NBA too, it's rare. It's rare for anything like that to go down and

I was hitting quarters before. But I really see who hit me. Yeah, I got hittit courts, but I could and see who hit me. So when you can see it, a great thing, A great thing. At nineteen years old, I was even more reckless. I would have win it. In of course, even if you'd have seen him, it may have been the guy next to him saying he

bet him that you couldn't right, all right? So when you look back at that footage, and I don't know if you can, because I know, you know, look, man, I got in trouble and was on caught shoplifting on camera, and I've never looked at it. I've never looked at it. Meta. Um, I didn't even know that. Yeah, I was messed up painkillers and I had done it a few times apparently, and there's video of it out there, and I've never

been able to bring myself to watch it ever. You know, I was at the at the Nike store across the street and had a shopping bag and I'm in the Apple store and putting ship in my bag and walking out just I stole some ship, man, And I never been in trouble in my life. Uh, you know, when I look back, and I go, you know, people can judge me for this, and they do, and you know, if I was still there, it could continue to judge

me for that. I don't want people to judge you, or judge me, or judge anybody on their worst moment, on their worst day, if you've tried to learn from it, and you've definitely done that, you know, let me ask just to follow up, finish up there at the palace. Who got you under control back in the tunnel? Who talked you down? Um? And how how did all that go down in the locker room? You got police in there and all kinds of stuff going on, right, Yeah,

it was crazy. I thought Jermaine was gonna come punch me in my face. I remember in the locker room at you. Well, when I was when I first got you the locker room, I was thinking like, oh my goodness, I'm about to have a fight with you made and Jamaine is strong, right. He came in and he was pissed, and Jamaine is one of the best leaders. See, Jamine

is a the ultimate leader. Right. So um, he came into the locker room the same old you mean, very pissed, but very professional, like he always is, you know, but very pissed. He was so mad at me, and it was just crazy. Um. But getting back to the locker room, Chuck was like, stopped because more people throwing stuff and me, I'm like, I'm ready at this point, I'm ready to go back right and Chuck like, who's doing it? Who's

here to me? Within the cups I can't see? And Chuck this head he said, round stops out, Le's get back to it. I'm like, okay, okay, And Reggie Miller like Reggie was always there, You're right, You're right, you know. Um. So those two really got me back to the locker room. And then when I sat down, Steven Jackson was there. Jamal Tensey was that so in my mind, I'm like, I'm like, this is bad, but I just needed some clarification, like this is really bad, right I was, And I

was in my head the whole time. And then Jack Steve Jackson was like, Yo, this is really bad. Yeah, but I saw my teammates. I'm like, I let my teammates down once again, once again, once again, you know, because I was always like my teammates down because I'm not playing basketball. I'm always doing something that is detrimental, you know. So you you guys have always kind of reminded me of one another, Rashid Russie Wallace, way different

basketball games and all that. But I never knew a teammate of yours or of Rashid's that don't love them to death or love you to death. I've always kind of felt like, you know, because you guys had a reputation in the media of being difficult or moody or you know, hot tempered and all of that stuff. The thing that I find most similar about you is that you do want people to like you. You want to be liked Ron. You're so likable and approachable, Ron, I

keep calling you that. Sorry, you know, the same way with she nicest guy you ever meet. Yeah, he really is, It really is. And so you know, people see you know, the Palace, and they see Rashid getting kicked out of games, and they have only one view of them and don't really know the depth of you as people. So I'm I'm just proud. I'm happy for you. Why are you looking for more tests? That's a praise by Little Minutes or Ron on a night where Kobe Bryant this best

actual here for most of the night was rebounding. What kind of satisfaction to you and how take that you were able to support him tonight? Well birth, IM think everybody my heart, Mom's psychoscious. She really helped me relax a lot. Thank you so much. The soul's difficult to play all the fun so much motion got on the playoffs? Does she held me relax? I thank you so much. You know what I wish somebody would have told me when I was young, Um, Meta do it all the time,

is that life is hard. Life is hard. And I remember thinking, you know, man, I'm lucky. I got a charm life, I play basketball, I do it. And even though I I did have those things, you know, my mental makeup is just what it is. It's not you can't get a brain transplant. This is what I'm working with, and my history is what I'm working with. And the older we get, we we realized, you know, we got to take account of what we've done and try to

better ourselves. And you've done that. You know, You've lived everywhere, it seems like, you know, at this point, in Chicago, Indie, Sack, Houston, l A, New York, China, Italy. You know, at this point though, all those stops, you know, what's the thing you look back on the most and are like, you know, I've really learned this about myself. What's the thing you've learned the most about yourself through all your stops? You know, I think I learned. I love the game of basketball.

I love being in the gym. I remember being in Italy and I only I got fifteen ground. I just wanted to play ball because I was I couldn't get back in the league at this point. At one point in time, size I seem to play ball. I wanted to play against someone. So I go to Italy and I'm in a gym working hard, like doing my routine, stretching, uh, and I was giving back to the young guys. But

I just was so locked in. And you hear those squeaks of the shoes and the ball bouncing, it's like home, right, And then just getting up shots after practice, working out after practice, being with a team traveling referee. I was so locked in and I had a great time. Man, let's talk about this for a second. Let's talk about Kobe. You know, I played against Kobe his first few years, and um, he wasn't very good when I was playing

like he wasn't what he ended up being. He he might have started like if I was playing gainst him those first couple of years, I was at my best, and I remember looking forward to him because he didn't know what he was doing out there. He didn't know defensively, but he competed, really competed. And I'll never forget being out there with him. We're playing. I don't remember if it was at the Forum or at Staples, but um,

I think it was at the Forum. I don't remember, but we were out at half court on a free throw, standing side by side. And you know, back then, he didn't really talk much to the guys on the other team unless you knew him or whatever, and you damn sure weren't trying to help anybody on the other team, and if they didn't go to your college or something like that. And so I'm standing back there and Kobe

says to me, he bends down beside me. We got our hands on our shorts, and he says, and I was playing real well in that game in particular, and not and he said, Rex, how much do you shoot in the summer? And I looked at he was like seventeen or eighteen, and I looked at him like it kind of caught me off guard, and I looked at him.

He was really like asking me, and I went, man as much as I can, I said, I every day, I said, I I jump a lot on my shot, so I can't shoot you know, five hundred, but I gotta get my two hundred, two hundred and fifty in, you know, good quality shots. And that was all during the little thing. And then you know, we dapted after the game and it was really beautiful. And then to watch him grow and and you know, he had his just issues. Wasn't the perfect guy, wasn't the perfect teammate?

You know, I know Shock well, I know he and Shack were not great for a long time. But about a year ago, I was in New York with my daughter, and you know, we all here that he's had a horrific accident with his daughter and others and perished in a helicopter. Uh crash. How did it hit you? Where were you and how are you coping with it? I don't believe it still, but we know what happened. Um, it was unbelieved. I was home, I got a call from some one of my friends that actually asked me

to take him to a Lago game. It was really weird. So he texted me and just says, Kobe passed away my friend never and I'm just like, you know, I don't play like that. I'm like, you know, tabloids, there's no way Kobe passed away because Kobe is not going anywhere. Um. He can get through anything. Um. And then when he when he texted me, I called him back and spoke to him. He like, yeah, it's all over the news man. I said, it's not treat that you should you should check.

So at this point I call KG dinnuh and Lou Williams. And then when I spoke to KG, KG was like, yeah, it's treat. That's first thing. KG said, all right, And then I called Lou Williams and then you know, he's like, yeah, it's trying man. So now I'm like, oh wow, this is definitely true. So I'm not called. I don't want to talk to anybody else. I think I amoighty text Jenny And at this point, you know, I was just like crying downstairs. It was tough, man. It was just

tuck out. I'm just thinking like, okay, you know it's maybe the plane crashed, Oh, the helicopter crash, and he gonna get out, you know what I'm saying. Like, um, then it's just like the worst possible with they to think about. And then at one point in time, I just thought he was playing a trick. I thought maybe he was just like playing this big trick, big magic trick or something, you know, I thought maybe he would come back. I'm thinking I'm thinking like no way the

whole time, and and that's it. And I still can't believe it. Like I went through a lot, uh during that time. Just do you ever, I mean, because I find myself I'll just be sitting around sometimes and I just find myself just like having to keep from crying. Like right now, I got goose bumps, and I'm wondering, do you do you catch yourself doing? I mean you guys close close titles, do you talk about it at all? Uh?

Sometimes I talk about it. I might see somebody or everybody's mentioning Kobe, and and sometimes it feels like he's here. So sometimes I'll talk about Kobe and I feel like he has so I have big smile until you realize, like Kobe not really here, you know, but I still didn't come to grips with it yet that he's not here. It's really hard to believe, like he's not here. It seemed invincible. Invincible is what he seemed like. You know. It's just it's it's still so yeah, one of them

dreams you wish you woke up from. What advice do you give people out there, young kid growing up in Queen's Bridge right now going through some of the same stuff you know that you've gone through um, whether in your career or mental health wise, what kind of advice do you give young kids out there? You know, I've been going back so much to Queensbridge. I tried to just be an example, you know, just being from the

same place. You know. When I made it to the NBA, I got two busses from my hood to come to the drift, So it ain't like I have I ain't missed a beat. I was back in the hood the next day, right and every summer and on the block just by myself, chilling all with my friends. So I never really had a chance to step out and be like, hey, guys, this is how you be professional. It was like, no

I met it. Ronald test is back. I was on the block one time, on the bench just smoking marijuana while I was in the league when you wasn't supposed to be so. I mean, but in terms of advice, I don't really have advice. But you know, just certain things remind you of certain times and you just go

back to those times and certain comfort levels draw. But you know, being back in Queens, it's always a thing where I keep trying to be an example because we're from the same place, and you know, we just keep working. We just keep grinding and keep doing positive stuff, even when my company x very Sex, like, how can we do something positive? That's why I keep doing so many different things because I don't want to get caught up. Tell me about x verse X. You know, x very

Sex is a community building platforms. So you get on the platform, you create a game, invite your friends, play the game in the park, in your backyard wherever, put the score in, and then it populates to your record and you get a chance to see if you're the best in your area. And you do this across America. It's just a fun thing for players. I think if you love basketball and if you're never gonna play pro play on the Actor for his exports app. I play

sometimes people invite me to games. It's basketball, man. I was trying to find a way to stay close. Yeah, fantastic, man, Thanks, thanks, I was trying to find a way to stay close to the game, you know, like always want to stay close to the game. You're gonna do that. Man, You're the Metaworld piece ron artest fabric runs through the NBA and it will forever. I'm so appreciative. Thanks for doing this. Uh,

please come back with talk some more. Um, if you ever need anything from me, man, serious, reach out, even if it's just to talk, even if you're going through a hard day. I'm here for you. I'm a huge fan. I love you to death. And keep doing what you're doing. Okay, and thanks a lot, man o G. You know I've watched you play. I play with you in the video games so many times, you know, when I was a kid, man play with you in the video games and just I mean, I'm a basketball fan, right, so I'm sorry,

but I'll watch how you attack the room. I mean I've seen people Zach Levine, that's who I wanted to be. In my mind. I would when you're talking about your era. People don't get out the way because people knew that they come punk you. I see him when you drive and people just like this. Yeah, anyone. You might sneak them. I might sneak them quick. Thanks thanks man, absolutely, thank you, all right. Brow charges severing no Runnians with the law charges,

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