Vol. 14: Kat O'Brien

what are you wearing under your or your pants. I don't regret not coming forward because there's no chance I would have been believed, and there's no chance that could have continued in my career. Zero zero Welcome to Charges. I'm your host Rex Chapman. Today on the show, we have a very differ for the type of guests and

a story to tell. I'm a man who has three daughters and a younger sister, so this episode really strikes a deep chord for me to help make this world of sports a better place today than when I was playing. I'm proud to have on former sports journalist Kat O'Brien, who for years covered Major League Baseball, but During that time, she held onto a secret. Cat worked at the Fort Worth Star Telegram, Newsday, and ESPN before ultimately leaving sports journalism.

She was a rising star who was taken advantage of in a despicable way by a coward of a man. What's worse because that it was committed by one of her peers, a professional athlete. A few weeks ago, she wrote a piece for The New York Times and told her story, one that she's held onto for eighteen years. If you haven't read it, I encourage you to do so before we get started. I want to read this. One part of her piece to you, Cat writes, I don't want this assault to be what people think of

when they think of me. I don't want pity. Being a survivor of rape is only a tiny part of my story. There are hundreds of things more interesting about me, such as my passion for Spain. I've run six marathons and qualified for the Boston since having a stroke. That I've worked for several companies, the most recognized and respected companies in the world, and that I volunteer with International

Rescue Committee. I've traveled to more than thirty countries on my own moved abroad, learned to scuba dive in St. Lucia, kite surf in Spain and Brazil, and have been one of the few women in many spaces. I haven't lost my optimism. Cat. What an honor it is to have you on the show today. Thank you for being here. Thanks for having me rox Um. I appreciate you're giving me the opportunity to talk with you and reach your audience. We'll get into everything about you, but I want to

start here. Uh, tell me about your life as a kid. Where are you from? How were you drawn into the world of sports. Sure, I'm from Davenport, Iowa, so quad cities, kind of the middle of America, right on the Mississippi River. I was the tomboy. Uh. You know, played a lot of sports, did a lot of other things too, But I didn't have any expectation to go into sports as a career. But I really liked telling stories. I really

like journalism. I went to Notre Dame for college, which certainly has a pretty strong sports history, and uh, I worked for the student newspaper, which is a daily paper Monday through Friday, and found covering sports to be get a lot more attention and interest from people than covering what professor was giving a lecture or whether a restaurant on campus might stay open half an hour later. UM. And so I kind of started doing more sports and

then I remember really clearly. Actually actually it's sad timing, but uh, this professional track athlete Paul McMullen raced on a in a meet on campus, and I did a feature on him, and he he sent me a handwritten note a couple several weeks later, after USA Today had also done a piece, and UM, he said that my piece was better. And I was like this year old, and I was like, wow, this is really cool, this you know athlete. UM. And sadly he actually just died

this year in an accident. UM. But he helped kind of push me, like I'm gonna do more sports and then you know the UM. Yeah, so those small things that someone does can sometimes have unexpected consequences and intentions, and and so you know, I focused more in sports and the newspaper and then ended up getting an internship. UH. The summer I graduated through the Association of Women in Sports Media, and UH, I joined the Fort Worth Star Telegram as an intern, thinking maybe I could get on

it like a small paper somewhere. The Star Telegram was one of the top sports sections in the country, and they ended up hiring me full time. And so that's that's my story and how I got into sports pretty much. Look, I gotta say, uh, my entry in the media was tough because of my background in personal life. But I never had to be an intern. But I got hired

coming right out of the summer. Um, actually part way through the summer, I got an offer and then started covering primarily high school sports and then also would help out with kind of whatever or else was near the

high school sports in Texas or a big deal. We had at the time different sections depending on which area of the region people lived in, so you know, with subscribers would get a certain edition, and UM covered a lot of high school sports, football, basketball, baseball, try everything there, very very very popular next level, and then would help out with a lot of other things, especially you know, in the summer there aren't high school high school sports,

so UM baseball. I had, you know, studied Spanish, so baseball was really a particularly a natural fit because I brought something that um, you know, most people wouldn't have in terms of being able to speak Spanish with players. What was your favorite part about covering baseball. I mean, you you can get to know people really well because they play every day. So I think you know, that

gives reporters a better chance to get to know players. UM. I think that can be tougher in a big media market like New York, for instance, because there's so many reporters. Players maybe a little more guarded with good reason. Um, but you know, when you're around people every day like in Texas and there are only a handful their their day in and day out. In terms of reporters, you can, you know, potentially get a chance to get to know people.

While I think I always tried to be fair with uh, not just players, with everyone around sport, and um, I think that people recognize that. Most people recognize that, and UM, yeah, so I think just the day and day out aspect of it. While that can be a challenge, UM, it also can and give you a better opportunity to know people. As compared to football like NFL, where they're playing once a week, a lock around maxis is super limited. Uh, interview access is really limited. I think it's harder to

get to know the players in that space. At what point did you have the realization, Oh, because I'm a woman, this job is going to be different for me than if I was a man. Mm hmm, that's a good question. Um. I guess it's just sort of a gradual thing. You know. It's like, I don't know that I thought about it much in college. Um. You know, college your access is more limited on a college campus as opposed to professional athletes. There are a lot of comments in the atmosphere that

you deal with. Um, this is not just players, So I'm not singling out players by any stretch. This is just the whole atmosphere. So UM, I don't buy any stretch things that players were more guilty of sexual harassment or anything than other people around the sport or or in life really. But um, but it is a very male dominated atmosphere. So whether that's from you know, agents, to coaches, to players to other reporters, UM, it's just

a reality that you deal with. I I do remember like a few times talking to other women, but there weren't a lot of other women covering baseball, So maybe talk to another woman who was working in Dallas sport wars but not covering baseball. Or or one of the few women who was coming baseball if they had any tips. Then again, you're like, twenty three, how much do you want to bother this person who's been working in the game for ten twenty thirty years or in the industry

for that long. Um. And I remember different people talking about different approaches based on their personality, based on the experiences they'd have, because uh, you could. I mean, two people working in the same sport in the same sector don't have the same experiences, so you might not have had maybe maybe you covered a team where someone was really egregious, or maybe the exact opposite, where a captain of the team was like, hey, you don't you don't

do this, and then that person had a big positive effect. UM. So I think, you know, dependent on the atmosphere, of course, then it are you traveling, are you on the road? Um? And and then personality wise, like there are people who have a certain personality where they're going to react more strongly, they're going to things are going to roll off them more easily. And then age, I mean, if I was I was twenty two, twenty three in my twenties the whole time I covered baseball, so Uh, you're at the

same age or in many cases younger. Maybe then a lot of the players. Um and if I had been in my fifties, I'm sure it would be a different one based on what you would encounter. But to based on even now, I would probably have a different response. I might take a little less language, but that's right, say whatever you like. A lot has been made in the last few years about locker room talk. The locker rooms of today are very different from my era in

coverage and decency. I'm ashamed to admit that wild teammates belittle female reporters with inappropriate conduct. I, as a young man, did not step in like I should have, which makes me complicit. The workplace is meant to be a safe haven for all, but sadly, across sports, we're seeing a pattern of vile behavior from the past to the president that must be corrected. The president of l s U says there was a quote institutional betrayal and how the

university handled accusations of sexual misconduct. This comes as an outside law firm released its report of failures to address such issues on campus. Fifteen former female employees of the Washington Redskins have accused members of the team's front office of sexual and verbal harassment. This and a new report

from The Washington Post. The accusations spanned from two thousand six or two thousand nineteen and include longtime radio voice Larry Michael, also director of Pro Personal Alex Santos, and his assistant Richard Matt new report on sexual harassment in the Dallas Mavericks basketball team, investigators have found a hostile culture for women at the team owned by billionaire MARKQ.

Been Cuban and his Mavericks facing the bite of a bombshell report revealing multiple instances of sexual harassment and workplaced misconduct over two decades, Carolina Panthers founder and principal owner Jerry Richardson announced his plans to sell the team at the end of the season, amid reports he gave payouts to four former employees to settle claims of misconduct and racial slurs. Just five weeks after he was hired, the

Mets dismissed their general manager, Jared Porter. He was quickly fired today when news of a sexting scandal went public, and the Mets organization says it knew nothing about the allegations until Jared Porter called them last night. They say he told them about the disturbing claims being made against him by a female reporter from Korea. The Mets say he took full responsibility for his actions and expressed remorse.

I gotta say this, Uh, I was a teenager entering the NBA in the late eighties, and it was right at that time that, um, you know, ladies were coming in the locker room and um, I you know, and I've never talked to them about it, but I saw Hannah Storm worked in Charlotte, and uh, she was one of the first that I knew that came into the

locker room. Uh. The other was Jackie McMullin. And I witnessed, you know, just awful things you know, take place where you know, obviously I saw that they saw, you know, what was happening, and just the strength that it took to continue to work and thrive in that environment. So how would you describe your professional relationship with athletes during your career and would it surprise the listeners how often

a player or organization member or crosses the line. Um, I mean I would say with the vast majority of people, UM, for the most part, I had a good and professional relationship. I would say most players, uh by and large, treated me very professionally. Um. Even some said things like, oh you know I would I would think of you like a sister or something. I wouldn't want someone to treat my sister x y Z way, and so would um.

You know, in some cases even be more cordial, where they might have snapped at a male athlete like they didn't want to because they didn't think they should treat a woman that way. So UM, I would say most players and most people around the game generally treated me well and or or if not well, of the same way they would have treated a male athlete or a reporter. Sorry.

You know, like if if someone and I'm not gonna negatively call out anybody, but if if a certain player known for sort of snapping at reporters snapped at me, I wasn't probably because I was a woman. That was just because hey, he was saying me like everyone else. So you know, there's one athlete who, um was a notorious jerke. I mean I don't if anyone said he wasn't a jerk, I would be shocked, Like he's probably the person you're thinking of. You're thinking of this person

but I'm not going to name negatively name any person. Um. And he also he one time, like or more than one time, I remember, purposely like basically walked around naked, so because you know, you would try to not be looking if someone's changing. So that one was a very obvious one. Um. So was that him being kind of a sexist jerk? Yes? Was he just a jerk in general to almost everyone? Yes? So um so Yeah. And then there were others who by and large would treat

me well. But every once in a while there might be some comments, someone asking like what sexual positions like or what are you wearing under your scart or your pants, which like obviously not okay, um, but also other reporters making jokes about such and such female reporter must be sleeping with so and so um And I couldn't even

think how many people uh said that over time. Uh. And given I heard it said about um a lot of other women, I can only assume what was said about almost all of them at one point or another. So it's so sad, it really is. And when I talked about I'm glad you said it, you know, kind of freed me up. You know, one of my first

experiences with female in the locker room. Um, you know, I had teammate who just kind of waited for the the reporter to come in and then took off his towel and then started, you know, using the lotion on his legs and to you know, didn't start the interview until that happened. Now, of course I'm calling that guy out. Uh at nineteen and twenty and twenty one and hell, maybe even thirty one, I don't know. I didn't and that makes me feel bad. We'll be right back after

a word from our sponsors. The Department of Justice says eighteen percent of women in the United States have been raped at some point in their lifetime. Eighteen that's almost one out of every five women, or the populations of Washington State, Oregon, Idaho, Nevada, Montana, Wyoming, and Utah combined. And about two thirds of victims know their attacker. So why do you only six of cases get reported? Well, it's complicated. Sometimes victims don't want to get the offender

in trouble. Sometimes they believe police can't help. But every time a victim is dealing with some sort of trauma, most times we think of physical, emotional, or mental trauma. But what if I told you sexual assault victims are also hit financially. The d o J finds that almost fifty of sexual assault survivors lose their jobs who are forced to quit. On June, Cat published an op ed in The New York Times, and she came forward about

the rape for the first time. The piece sent shock waves throughout the sports media world, but to day, none of the league's including Major League Baseball, have acknowledged it as a moment of reckoning. I want to ask, and just as a starting point, I know you wrote about what happened, and you've talked about in other interviews, but still are you comfortable with talking about what happened? And I want you to know whatever level of comfort you have or don't have at any point, just please it's

okay too, and I'll stop and respect that. Yeah, I'll do I'll do my best to us and so we'll go as much as I can. I got it, Okay, thanks? Um, okay, So if you're willing, can can we talk about the day of the incident or days leading up to it and that week you know, sort of coming to the head. Yeah, So, um, I just uh, one player, Um, not on the team that I covered, so I I have at no point, although some role sluice on the internet like to think

they can guess who. I very specifically did not give any clues other than saying it was not a player on a team I covered. So UM of his name player wanted to UH said he wanted to talk confidentially for a story I was doing. UM. I thought that seemed plausible. Initially suggested meeting like at a bar someplace, because it was going to be after the game. UH, so that's what would be open UM. And then he said, oh, I don't want someone to see and know I was talking to you. UM, can can we do it at

my hotel? And I decided yes. I was very trusting and thought, sure he was talking, that seems plausible. He doesn't want one to know, UM, and so uh so I went to um his hotel room after the game after I got done parting, and had you know, my notebook and pen and recorded to you know, interview him, and sat down to interview him. And it did start as that. So there wasn't an indication when I got there that there was any other purpose or anything else

that he was looking for. It it all seemed straightforward. He was not wearing like no clothes or anything crazy. Um. And then uh, you know, after a few minutes, he moved to kiss me, and I was taken aback, and It's like, what are you doing? And I'm probably not going to like feel comfortable going into love of detail, but he just he continued to kissed me and pushed me towards the bed and then he did not, um stop, and he did not take note for an answer, and

um and UM, I uh yeah, I UM. I never I never told anybody until earlier this year, not a single person, and I honestly never really thought about telling anyone. I think there was one one or two times I thought about telling a female friend, um, basically in light of them talking about something much less egregious but but not not great that had happened to them. And then I felt that, um, you know, if you tell someone,

someone always tells someone. They tell their their boyfriend, they tell their roommate, and so then I was just really terrified that it was going to get out. UM. So I never told anyone, even though, um, I think it was the next day I was back at the ballpark, and um, I a teammate of this players. Uh. I could hear and see him like gesture and making saying something in conjunction with the other player's name. And I was just astonished that like, Okay, this player said clearly

he didn't say I raped her. I can't imagine they had to have said like, oh I hooked up with this reporter or something that made me look bad. And and I remember I was so like humiliated, like, oh my god, is everyone going to not well know this other version of it and think this about me? Because there's already this um kind of this perception among some people that that female reporters are not there to um, do a job, but they're there to like pick up

pick up guys or some crazy thing. It's it's something that it's a rumor that people say. UM. And and I always will remember that that teammate like he did, he continued to do that every time I would see him and he would make comments or UM, I would overhear him, and I really tried to avoid him as much as I could. UM. But that to me was a really egregious that he continued to do that for years that I was, you know, still covering baseball that's

just it's just heartbreaking. Um, I am so sorry. Do you beat yourself up about trusting, about trusting because and I have daughters twenty two and twenty six, and you know, younger sister. I think about those you know, young babies, their babies, and you know, being so trusting of somebody who's when you look back, was meaning to do you hard? Well, I mean I do, and yet I also, like, I don't want to lose that like ability to trust people

or to believe the best in people. And I mean I will say, like I feel like I have fought through personal things, through things happening in the world, you see, like just terrible things happening in the world. I have like really fought to be like I want to be. I would much rather be a glass three quarters full person and believe the best of someone and be disappointed. Actually, I've run a lot with the Nike Run Club and there's this coach, coach Chris Bennett. He I can't remember

the exact wording, but he said something. I was like, Yes, that is how I feel I would. I'm gonna totally butcher it, but basically, I would rather think the best of people and have them disappoint me than think the worst of people and just be disappointed in life. So I'm gonna stick with that. But yet sometimes you do

have to be a little more cautious or protective. Um So, I yeah, I mean, I guess to get into and I talked about this in my piece, but for your audience, um so, I never ever ever thought of telling anyone.

And then uh, this this winter when uh um, Jared Porter was fired as Matts GM, and I was reading, even though I'm not working in sports anymore, I'm not working in baseball, but I read things and specifically if they're particularly relevant interesting, and I was reading a lot of the coverage by people about him getting fired for persistent sexual harassment of a female reporter. And so I'm reading, um some just general coverage. But then women in baseball

and sports writing about, you know, their experiences. And then I can remember I was sitting I actually it was not this couch because I got a new couch, but I was sitting here like reading and uh, brit Julie Um from the Athletic had a peace and something that started out the same way happened to her didn't then the same way. Thank god, but she went to interview a player in his tell room. UM. When she arrived, though, she had um a very romantic setup and was basically

like what that like? And she turned around and left. UM. But I read it and I just was like, oh my god, because it's it's not as if I totally blamed myself, but I kind of did, like I just like put in this box over here, because I don't think that I could have continued as a reporter if I felt like that was something that was like a danger for me. UM. And I also I don't I don't regret not coming forward because there's no chance I would have been believed and there's no chance I could

have continued in my career zero zero. So but anyway, I read her piece and I was just like, disagree with you. I wish I could disagree with you. Yeah, I wish, I wish, I wish I could disagree with me. But UM, you know, I I just I saw she did the same thing, and I was just like, oh, I wasn't it wasn't just me. I wasn't the only

like person who would fall for this. Um And And I talked to other people, well, lots of women who have done interviews in hotel rooms, and some who were like it was fine, some who had a bad experience, not only in sports, in journalism in general. UM. So yeah, I mean we can get to that. But when my piece came out, the volume of people who wrote to me or reached out to me to say they've been through something similar, it was just devastating, just devastating, not

only in journalism, I mean just people across the board. Yeah, I want to ask this, um, in this type of professional situation, did you ever even consider that someone could do something like this? And I asked because this was a crime, and most people in most jobs, certainly high profile public public eye type jobs, don't consider that a crime could take place at a job. I mean, I know I had never thought about that. I no, I

mean I guess where I thought of. I remember a few times, like either myself or other people I worked with telling me to be careful in certain situations, like you're leaving a stadium late at night by yourself. Um. I traveled, I traveled to the Dominican Republic a few

times to do reporting. UM, And I actually remember, um that it was really worried, like I do not want something to happen to you, and um, funny enough, I like I remember thinking, gosh, it's much more dangerous leaving like uh Detroit or Cleveland Ballpark late at night or the Bronx by myself than me being in a cab and such in the d R. Of course, any experience could depending, but I generally liked UM, so I would say, just those sort of late night by yourself, UM situations

where you think, oh, should I pay extra and take a cab rather than take you know, the subway or something that's a certain time, but not um that it might be like not that someone in the game might Yeah, I'm sure I know the answer to this, And I just hate, uh, you know, since you didn't tell literally anyone afterwards. Zero chance, zero thought given to calling the police. No,

no chance. I mean, it's just it's just something that's really um, you know, as I when I did decide to write this, so after I read Britt's Peace, I well then I told someone. Actually, like took a couple of weeks, but I was just like having nightmares and um couldn't sleep and was just crying a lot, and I decided to tell someone and tell like a few

close friends. And then, um, I decided to write something because even though I'm not currently a professional writer, I did that for a bunch of years and I'm still a writer, and I felt like I could tell my

story better than someone else could tell my story. Um, And so I decided to And initially I was going to publish it on medium, but as I was writing, and like, I spent a few weeks kind of remembering different things and figuring out exactly why I wanted to say in the direction, and you know, did some research on stats and actually only like one percent of of rape allegations end up with the person going to jail. One percent really terrible, and out of all I had

hundreds of people reach out to me. UM, somewhat higher than that have some sort of consequence, like like they have to pay a fine or something like that. But in terms of actually say jail, one percent, UM, in a a very small minority are convicted. UM. And usually those there's some sort of there was a witness, there was some sort of video camera something like that. So no, I don't I didn't think of it, and I don't regret.

You know, that sounds terrible because you know what people have said like, well, how is someone else going to feel better about coming forward? And I'm like, they probably shouldn't. That is terrible, but they probably shouldn't. Um. I mean, God bless and and more power to every person who does come forward, because I cannot imagine actually how difficult. I mean. I read stories of people who faced challenges at challenges as a very nice way to put it

at the um hands of police or people investigating. UM. Yeah, the only there was almost out of the hundreds of people who wrote to me that it was like two people that had some sort of actual consequences for the person they accused. One UM, there were other people it was like an abuser at a camp UM and and but there were no criminal consequences, but he lost his job. And then one where the person was convicted UM serves zero jail time but had to pay the person's legal

offense legal expenses. So that's not to say that's there are people that do face more consequences, but it's it's difficult. In your piece for The Times, Cat, you wrote that you went home and tried to numb your sadness and rage. UM. I can only imagine what you or anybody else is feeling at that time. How did you deal with those feelings? I think I just tried to ignore them as best I could, and um yeah, I mean I um yeah, just to kind of like pretend as if it didn't

had never happened. I wasn't a dres and successful in that. I mean I talked about there was a player who UM said things. I remember because I knew like this player had was saying things um the teammate. I remember a few times where uh say, I was applying for a job, or I got contacted about a job or later you know, I got my m b A and I stayed in sports but on the business side, and I applied for jobs in Major League Baseball at UM

a couple of teams. I remember interviewed with the Red Sox at one point, and I just remember being like terrified that executive was going to find out, which is really so crazy because I'm worried that someone's going to find out that someone committed a crime against me. Um. But I don't think I was wrong to think that because and that that's that's honestly one of the reasons I decided to come forward. Now, even though I like

I can't prove I never told anyone. There's nothing, but if someone else is telling a false story about you, all that has had years to accumulate. I just felt like, if if I'm going to tell my true story and UM that way, if for some reason, I don't know, if I ever decided to go back to the sports sector, because honestly, I was really good at working in sports, and UM, I could go back into that space at

some point if I decide to. UM, I my story is out there, as opposed to just someone else's story. It's beautiful. You know. I want to pause here and acknowledge nothing too. By the way, you know, none of this was your fault. Uh. You know you're having to talk about something that was done to you. You're not by you. And in a better society, it would be the person who did this, who committed this horrific crime and would be forced to deal with it and talk

about it and face repercussions from it. And I just want to say, Kat, thank you, thank you for your bravery for doing this. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. After the first few days of Olympic competition, we've already seen American exceptionalism at its best, with first ever wins in some events and repeated medals in others, but we've also taken a few losses, the biggest allowing an athlete who has had multiple sexual assault

accusations to compete on the world's biggest stage. Days after fencer Alan Hetzik joined the Olympic team, six women fencers filed formal complaints of sexual misconduct to the US Center for Safe Sport, the nonprofit agency responsible for protecting athletes from abuse. Yet instead of taking these complaints seriously once again, they were dismissed. Faster than shake. Harry Richardson was dismissed

for taking performance enhancing drugs. You would say fencing took it a step further and created the most insulting safety plan to protect women on the team. Had sick, was required to take a separate plane to Tokyo, stay thirty minutes away from the Olympic village in his own hotel, and practice away from all women. With sports now being seven three billion upon billion dollar industry, there are still

often heartwarming stories that take center stage. But as we've seen from coverage on the Olympics and even Major League Baseball, there is nowhere to hide when the line is crossed. The only hope these cowards have is to hope and hide behind those they've wrong in hopes that they stay silent. What was your perception of a Major League Baseball locker room culture and could that have created conditions for such a horrible will act, you know, to be encouraged or

even or excused? You know, I think it can, But I also think like societal things can, so I don't think that baseball or any league can solve these problems on their own. And I also don't think that one act can be um say that you can say that's because of x y z or that's the result of

someone failing to do x y z. UM. So that's why I really tried in my piece to say, Okay, there was this one really really terrible thing that happened, but there was also a lot of there are a lot of things less egregious, but that we're an everyday thing and so when you deal with them every day, that can in some be just as challenging, um depending depending they can um so, uh are there things baseball can do, teams can do to educate players and team

officials and frankly kin media outlets educate their own members. Yes, uh is that going to run everything? Absolutely not. So I do think that there are things that can be done to kind of reduce the amount of um, you know, sexual comments, harassment, things like that, um and hopefully you know, even more stories coming out will make it less likely that some of those things happen. I think also steps

taken by other people who overhear it. So not an official thing, but um, if everyone moves one or two steps uh more to like the side of good, I can say that, but that could make a huge difference. So maybe, Okay, you're probably not going to get someone who is currently committing sexual assault or rape to become just this speacon of of uh supporting women, at least not in the near term, but maybe they become less egregious.

Maybe someone who would never consider assaulting someone but uh, you know, laughs about sexual harassment, maybe they don't laugh atter. Or maybe the person who doesn't even laugh about it, but stays silent when they hear a joke says, hey, actually that's not that funny. So I think those like micro steps can um may sound silly, but I think that they can make a big difference over time. Yeah,

when you decided to go forward and not report the perpetrator. Uh, from what you've said in other interviews, that was a decision you made because you were aware of how these things normally go, and you touched on it a little bit earlier. Um. Have you encountered with those ladies that have written you, uh any success stories where they've they're perpetrator has faced significant repercussions. Um so not really no, Um, I mean their story is of course like that exists

in the world. Um Uh More, I feel like I've become even more saddened by kind of I mean, there are any number of stories is happening right now. There's I mean there's obviously the accusations against Trevor Bauer. Um with the Dodgers. There's a fencer right now in the Olympics who has so many sexual assault allegations against him, which, by the way, my my dear friend Melissa Cigara is one of the reporters on that. Um, he has these allegations, his whole team doesn't want him to be there. They

had to fly him on a different plane. Like that means these are there's some legit, you know, there's a lot behind these allegations. It's not one person, and so that just kind of makes me sad that like, Okay, well we care, and yet someone's not in the Olympics because she tested positive for marijuana. Look, I know, I know there are rules, but we have to bend over backwards to have this person be an alternate who has

and he's an alternate. He's an alternate because you're going, well, he must be really good, no, not good enough to not be an alternate at this point apparently, and they're giving him the benefit of the So, I mean, there was of all the people who wrote to me, uh, I would say that the first week after my peace came out, I was it was really overwhelming. Just look I had I heard from hundreds of people who I

know who care about me, reached out to support, be supportive. UM. There were some you know, trolls on the Internet and such that like say you're lying and whatever. But what was really the most devastating were hearing from so many people. I heard from complete strangers. I heard from friends, acquaintances, relatives, colleagues, people I went to school with, UM, other reporters, all of whom said like they either were sexually assaulted or raped,

some more than once in their life. And it was just so sad to here and it made me really think, like every single one of these people, in some way, smaller, big, no matter how strong or resilient whatever, has been negatively affected by this, Every single one and some in you know, life alterin ways that they have never been able to people spiral and uh, you know, I've listened to some of your podcasts and people talk about, you know, one

terrible thing happened that ended up caused them to spiral. And um, so every single one of the person who has been sexually assaulted or raped has had negative consequences in their life. And think about how much better we as a society could be if each of those people us be we people. I guess I didn't have that burden, Like what could each of those people have accomplished? What

heights could they have reached? And that's true not just it's also true of you know, of racism, of bigotry, of all kinds of things, but they're thinking about that one aspect of the sexual assault, sexual harassment. We could be so much better as a world if everyone, you know, could reach their full full potential preach on can you look back now and see did you like pour yourself into your job or into running marathons or you know, did you exercise? How did you cope? I mean I

definitely was very focused on my job. I definitely did not date really at all for a few years, I would say, like really until I moved to New York for the most part. Um I so I I mean psychologists could probably say there's you know, you're avoiding um, potential dangerous situations or or physically or psychiogically like, um, yeah. I mean it's also easy to at the time be like, oh, of course I'm working. Well, I mean I'm I was covering baseball, I'm traveling a hundred eighty days a year

for work. I I worked nights and weekends. So it's pretty easy to be like, oh, I don't have time to date, because that's you have to make time for it. Um. But yeah, I think I was pretty focused on my my job, and you know I was. I was at the time in like covering high schools and helping out

with baseball and other sports. And then I became the second baseball writer, um, like a few months a year later, and then for the start telling room, I had two baseball writers, and I became the lead baseball writer, and then I moved to New York and covered the Yankees for Newsday. So um, so yeah. I stayed covering baseball until two thousand nine, when I left to go get my m b A. So um. I guess probably was

continued to be very career focused. Um, not that I'm not anymore, but it's certainly not the only thing in my life. Right, We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Respected former sports journalist Cat O'Brien, in an opinion piece for The New York Times, kept me this public for the first time that she was raped by a Major League baseball player in two thousand two.

She was just twenty two at the time. She was a year out of college, and she says she never reported what happened because she was afraid of the backlash. She writes that it was quote a trauma that had been living inside me for eighteen years. Eighteen years, two years old. This could have happened to your loved one. Unfortunately, possibly it has, whether you know it or not. Those who use their positions of power for sexual impropriety. Your day of reckoning is upon you. We are seeing it

in industries and in countries around the globe. We almost do our best to protect those in need. And if you are a loved one needs to hear this. Share your voice. I support you, speak your truth. It sounds strange to say this, but what are the positives you hope will come from you adding your voice to this issue of Yeah, sexual assault, but also the problem of women not feeling believed or safe to report their sexual assaults. Yeah. So I had kind of three things in mind. Basically

that I hope one that some other people. It's been mostly women, but I have heard from some and um would uh either feel comfortable coming forward, whether publicly, or would at least seek help from friends or or support um or at least not blame themselves. So somehow that people would find comfort. And a lot of people have written to me. Some have written to me that told me they don't like only told one of their persons, So I do think that it's had some positive effect

in that way. UM. Secondly, this one is the one that I think the jury is out on. I hope and hope that some leagues and or teams not because isn't just a baseball problem by any stretch. UM might do some things to make less likely the general air of sexual harassment. This can also be media outlets, by the way, but do leagues MLB but also other leagues or individual teams put in place more education, more awareness

of sexual assault, sexual harassment, all of it. UM. So you can't prevent all of it, you definitely can't, but

you can make it less likely. I mean, I mentioned piece there was one time, only one time that I ever spoke up UM and I was I really didn't want to, and I but I felt like something had kind of there was a evolution where something was getting worse, players were feeling comfortable to do something, and I ended up saying something and the team was super supportive and uh, and so that was it was Brian Cashman like, thank you.

He was super on the ball, UM like very much. So, So you know, things like that I think can help so with management if teams, if player leadership are are UM not accepting. So that's one thing though that I hope more teams in leagues. I think there's more that can be done there. I know there's more that can be done there has Major League Baseball done anything as a group at all to do that, And I want to say that I don't know that NBA has or

the NFL has either. I know that all the leagues have some sort of at least minimal training or education. I don't know all the ins and outs. I haven't heard. I talked to one person from Major League Baseball really not on a official matter. I haven't heard from them in an official capacity. I don't know of any specifics of statement to CNN when I went on CNN, um,

and I did hear from one person there? Um I think I also, I mean I heard from a couple of managers and coaches who I know in the league.

I heard from one player, and that's yeah. It's so one person working for the league to people who have been coaches or managers on teams like or or executives on teams I covered, and one player total, So that that actually was surprising and disappointing to me, because there are players who have kept in touch with over the years, at least sporadically that I would have thought would say something reach out. But and then the last thing, the

last one that I hope would have an impact. This is one that literally every one of us can do. So I talked about this earlier, but just those like little stuffs, micro changes. I mean. I I mentioned in my piece that the first two guys people I'm close to that I told about this, um, they both were like, oh my god, that's so awful. Support you believe you. But they also were like, but you couldn't get away, and uh, one in any situation, someone can't always get away.

But then on top of it, you're talking about a professional athlete who is one professional athlete but also outweighed me by a lot. So to have two people who are really close to you say that, just that chip of awareness. But even on a broader level, like I said, jokes when someone around you is making a joke about sexual harassment or or that like oh all women x y Z just being a little more cognizant. Look. I would love to never have to ever talk about this.

I would love to never have to like raise awareness to share awful stories. I would love for never happen because and recently especially as like since this has come out, and you know, if I see a story, I might like retweet it or I share it and I don't want that, Like, that is not the thing I want to talk about life. There's so many other things I care about, So just stop doing it and then none of us will have to talk about it, like really, yeah,

you know. And I'm gonna tell you something that that um Rick Pettino told me once he was I had had a um I was had a painkiller issue for many years, if you didn't know, and um I was in rehab and he came to see me and I said, listen, nobody's ever gonna want to talk to me anymore. He said, You're gonna be fine. I said, I'm toxic, nobody you know. And he said, Rex, your story is going to help a lot of people. And I said, this isn't my

fucking story. Through tears, I understand. Two weeks later I had to accept, or a month later, two years later, it's my story and it's just going to be part of my story. And I say that to say this that I can't imagine the pain not only during and when you were young, but that you've carried all these years. And I don't know that there's ever a perfect time, but in this climate we're in, you're gonna help so many people because I think you're gonna you are going

to empower other women, other reporters. Um, it's not just women, you know, uh, to to share their stories. So I hope so and yeah and thanks for thanks for that. And you know, I want to say on on that No, well, I definitely had the same reaction. I don't want this to be my story. But I guess we don't always get to choose what, um might be part of our story. But on the you know, the opioid addiction, I feel so grateful. So I, Um, I mentioned that I had a concussion that led to a stroke. Um, I knew

about the stroke. Yeah, the month after I graduated from Warton, I got sick on airplane. Um, they found me unconscious. I'd hit my head. It caused me to have I'd never had a migraine. I had a migraine for almost two years and not caused a stroke. But I am really grateful that I never and lucky that I did not develop an opiate addiction because I was taking like I was taking like purcose at oxygen and it actually did it actually didn't even barely touch the pain. I

was in that much pain. So maybe because it didn't help me that much. I didn't get but but in knowing how easy it can be, you know, just by the wrong luck. I've heard so many stories, So I'm glad that you were able to get off. But I'm I'm you know, I'm fortunate that I didn't um because because I was having to take those for pain. Yeah, And you know, also I looked back and I was taking them. You're lucky also because I was taking them for emotional pain as well, and that as a you know,

I'm glad they didn't work for you. When I say that, this video is said, well, why Jimmy bother and Rachel Nichols inde hooked up in the hotel in the bubble. There's a ton of proto supporties clean. So let's get straight to another thing real quick. What's your opinion about the role social media plays on journalism today? How a story that has no confirmation, like Jimmy Butler and Rachel Nichols married, uh kids supposedly became intimate during the NBA

bubble can go viral? How can reporters and even the audience know how to sift through and react to an overabundance of information that is really tough, and I'm I'm actually wrestling. I'm trying to write something UM right now related to kind of social media UM and women on it, particularly Twitter, UM, because I know something I've noticed. I mean, I'm talking particularly from a professional standpoint. UM. There's certain

industries where it can be really beneficial for people's careers. UM. And I'm noticing women tend to be less active, and one of the reasons is they we tend to get a lot of betrayal sometimes. I mean I talked to some people that have gotten like explicit rape threats, explicit UM people. There's an Olympian right now, there's a UM piece that just came out on her being stalked for years. UM.

So I get why someone would choose to be less active. Nevertheless, I mean thinking as a journalist, it's certainly an important part of the profession. So that's a really tricky thing. How do people sift through what's true? I guess all of us and myself included, but we should all probably be more careful about what we're sharing what's the source. But how reliable is that? Like I don't know anything

about what if anything happened between them? UM. But I certainly have heard my share of women falsely accused of sleeping with a player or just sleeping with someone whoever because someone famous? What have you? Um? And and and also like also the athlete, like he shouldn't be accused, he I who knows? He? I think I don't. I don't remember if he's married or not. But he shouldn't be falsely accused and nobody should be. I don't know what happened. Um so but um, you know I that

was something. I mean, even on social media. I think when it was in one of my last year's covering baseball, but I remember the post stories about a rod Um coming out, and I specifically remember talking to players being like, whoa, this is not something that people write about about marital infidelity. And that's obviously changed and people do write about that now, But I don't know that that's necessarily a good thing.

And I guess, I guess if it's you know, I do I remember stories over the years of you know, maybe if it was an infidelity, like say with the teammates, something that's messing with you know, the team. Um, but I don't know that. I don't know that Again, in lesson if it's a crime, then yes, absolutely, like if someone's a sexual assault or something. But I think rumors about what people might be doing sexually, um, I don't.

I don't necessarily see the need for it. And certainly, um there are some outlets that like to to stir things up, and um I tend to not spend a lot of time on them. But same here, Um cat, what's next for you? How can our listeners follow your journey? Uh? Well, I mean I'm not working in sports presently, so I don't know if I want be the most interesting you want to. Sometimes I think about that. I mean, it's I've been working in fintech for six years, so I'm

not working in sports at all. But yeah, sometimes I have thoughts of uh, you know, I mean, even as this was about to be published, I saw, uh, like so six weeks ago or something, I saw like a really interesting job at MLB at Major League Baseball, and I was like, I don't think I can apply for that right now. It would be just weird. You can, well, it's just felt weird. Um Uh, you know, I don't know. I don't know if my journey will take me back

to sports at any point. I think you know, I worked at ESPN for a few years on the business side, UM, specifically the Spanish language side, like digital media, strategy, UM social. While I was in business school, I interned at Real Madrid. UM. I love, I love working on those partnerships. I mean, maybe maybe the best fit is if I were to work on sponsorships at my own current company or UM. You know, I don't know. It's not something I'm presently like pursuing, UM, but I wouldn't rule it out in

the in the future. Well, I know, I know if I could see sports in your future UM. And you've only brought Spain up six times during the interview, so maybe something in in international baseball and all that. I think, you know, if opportunity to present itself in like football and and a Spaniard or you know, work I when

I was at this well tis in Spain together. When I was at the ESPN, I got Rafa an ad All to do the this is Sports Center commercial, So you can just go work and the tennis league over there. Oh that would be great. Cat Listen, I want to thank you for your time, for your bravery and telling your story. I want you to know that I'll always continue to use my platform to advocate for a world

of decency and safety. Also for a world where women are able to work in sports or anywhere with men as equals, and be able to tell people their experiences without fear for their safety, careers or reputations. Thank you again, and please reach out if there's ever anything I can do. Cat Thanks, thanks for all you do. Rex, appreciate you. Take care. Charges seveing no Runnians with the law charges, st Lee send the tennis and balls and charges the

celebrity gank Forums charges. We came along but from living lawless charges. Seveing no Runnians with the law charges st Lee send the tennis and ball as charges. The celebrity gank forlorums. Charge We came along but from living lawless. Charge Charges is created by Portlay and Control Media that's produced by DV Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.