Vol. 12: Jayson Williams

I went to visit and I was there for twenty seven months. A lot of things changed from them, and like I said, with our structure came instruction. Jay, you had an accident. Stop stop man. Welcome to Charges. I'm your host, Rex Chapman. Today we speak with former NBA All Star and my longtime friend, Jason Williams. Jason is a mental giant, but his reputation unfortunately precedes him a career in life on top as a professional athlete itself is a blessing, but in an instant it can all

be taken away. He is a man who would make backpage headlines during his career as a New Jersey Net but in retirement, as when he made a splash onto the front page, he has committed the worst mistake a person can make, costing someone else their life, albeit accidentally. What is not known is the slew of tragedies he faced throughout his childhood and how he put his family onto his broad shoulders time and time again through trials

in court and tribulations with addiction. The road has been long, but Jason is a testament of resilience and I'm proud to have him on to tell his story of rebounding in life and for others today this his charges. Jason, Welcome to the show. We've known each other for a long time and I love you, my man. Just wanted to get that out of the way. I feel like people know pieces of your story, and you've told me

that you're ready to talk, so let's talk. When was it clear to you that basketball was gonna be that thing for you? What age were you and how did change your life? I believe it or not, Rex, she you was recruited and uh, you know everybody heard the Rex Shapman out of New York. We got a lot of people that played and in that area we had Derek Coleman, Cherry Mills. Uh, we had Moses story. Uh, we had Kenny Anderson, Anderson everybody. Yeah, we had everybody,

you know. Uh so I never got invited. It was a guy named Tom Kachowski. You remember him, like he was the guy who wrote down if you get four stars or three stars or five stars and then right, and that's what how college was recruited you. If you got a three stars, you were going to the to five star or four star. He was going Division one, five star, you was going into the Big East. So I would kind of manipulate him and said, hey, man, once he changed that four to five and uh he said, well,

I tell you what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna get you in the ABC camp. Remember that Sunny VI Carol. I went up there and I was an invite owner. I think it was a hundred people to get invited. I was a hundred and three. Now, Derrick Coleman was up there. Your buddy was up there. What you tell us funny story about him? A little later h J. R. Reid Um. So he came in as a rookie, as a senior or sophomore, and I was a senior and I just said, you know what, I'm gonna let it

have it here. You know, I'm just going I'm gonna play. I'm a hoop boy. They had some orange uniforms and gave us free sneakers. First time I ever got free sneakers. So I went down to this camp and I had a move that goes behind the back and and just lay it up and I must have averaged third five points. And I was just remember it was like the movies. Everybody run into the phone and I had not one. I did have a letter, uh, and no disrespect to anybody.

It was from Davidson. And I was like, where is Davidson? And then this is how ignorant I was. After I started getting letters. I always wanted to go to u c l A. Because I went to high school Kareem at bul Jabal and I was like, Wow, I'm gonna go to u c l A. Until I found out and it wasn't on University of corner of Alexington Avenue. That's what it didn't stand for c l A. Right, I thought it was in Halem. I thought all these

schools was in Halem. So I ended up saying, heck no, you know, I cannot go to all U c l A. Because I can't leave my parents. So at this point, um, when I got home, there was a hundred letters and and I was like, wow, I got something here. I go home to show it to my daddy. And my daddy never forgot. He asked you questions how much you're

going to us? And then even though I went from never starting a high school game to starting my senior year, I knew there was only two place I was gonna go, Seton Hall or I was gonna go to St. John's because they were close to each other. And I never want to leave my parents. Because, believe it or not, I say it on your show, I say it to my teammates and my staff all the time. I watched The Women as a kid and The Exorcist, and I slept in my parents bad to I was fourteen. I

was scared to death. You know. My dad used to say, damn boy, when your feet stick off the bed more than I do. You're trying to leave your mama, bad ain't you? You know he's from the Deep South, doc guy, you know. But the movie scared the hell out of me. But it wasn't that. It was that so much things happened to my sisters that I would never leave the house to go to a camp without my dad. I've known Jason Williams for three decades, and he has always

been the kindest man. I want to ask you all to try to leave your preconceived notions at the door for this interview. Whether at St. John's, briefly in Philadelphia, blossoming in New Jersey, or after his career as a broadcaster, Jason was always the biggest personality in the room, with a heart to match. For someone in the spotlight of as many major networks as Jason was for so long, it's a minor miracle that more people were not aware of what he had to overcome to get to the top.

Maybe if the public knew what you're about to hear, things may have ended up differently in the court of public opinion, even after a court of law charged him with reckless manslaughter. I try to never behave as though I've walked a mile in a man's shoes unless I'm willing to walk beside them and hear their story from its origin. For portions of this podcast list, her discretion is advised so real quick I grew up on the Lower East Side of Manhattan. I came home. I was

about thirteen and a half years old. Uh. I was staying with my sister at the time. We would only live building. The building depend on how if I missed curfew. That means when the lights went on outside, I could always run over to her house and she would tell a lot to my dad that I was over there. But this time it was an awakening. I got out

the elevator, I saw tremendous amount of blood. I looked down the hallway and the blood got thicker and thicker, and it led until my sister's apartment when I went into them. My sister six ft one, she's about a hundred and thirty pounds. She was a model, a supermodel. And UH. A guy named Sergio, who I did not know at the time. I found out his name later, had stabbed seventeen times. That beat over the face with a hammer in the bathtub in front of a two year old son, e J and Uh. That was just

the start of it. Of course, we couldn't find Sir Joy at that time. My sister was rushed to the hospital where she received the blood transfusion. They didn't give it much pain for her face. Uh, they gave it more pain for her stab rooms was a seventeen and she got hooked on morphine. But doing that blood transfusion. I can't prove this, but hopefully this is the reason

because I've never seen my sister do drugs prior. She came home and we had to take down all the mirrors out of our house because her face was deformed. She caught the A virus. He was the first woman in New York City to catch it. It was something like if you thought COVID was bad, uh, you times that by a hundred. And when people don't know what is going on, they became very, very panic and panic situations.

I remember going to Bellevue Hospitals. I now never forgive Bellevue Hospital, um for having my sister come to appointments, uh doing the service elevators. I never forgive my mother, who I loved the death, who was dearly departed three years ago, for each feeding my sister and a has Matt suit. Um, you had to have a has Matt suit on. That's something I never got over. And I

loved my mother. I never did that. I stayed with my sister all during visiting hours, and then I would walk home, which was about a two mile walk from Street to the Lower east Side every single night. Sometimes I stopped at Saint Theresa's and pray for She was my best friend. She was the cool sister that will pull up in uh new Cadillac and Junior High School

and say she being the passenger side. And all the kids that you know used to bullet meal or make fun of me because I wasn't dressed the right way because at that time my mother and father split up and I was living in Henry Street Settlement, which was a homeless shelterough. So I wore one pair of cut off jeans the school with a bomb on. So how ridiculous did that look in February? But I looked real cool when I got in the car and fourteen or

thirteen uh and started driving away. So um, but that's about as good as it gets because we know people rex who have HIV uh now they just went straight to AIGs. Then she was my best friend. We had plans together. Uh. She gave us back then it was a milkshake thing, uh, and it was it took man about five scoops and it took the biggest spoon that chopped this thing up and it was a lumps and

you had to give it to her four times. But she went from a hundred and thirty pounds to forty one pounds when she died in his five of maybe six months. Um, that was sad to see. Uh. My sister sissy, who her name is Laura, but we called the cissy try to ease the pain, came over and started hanging out with her. And if you hang out in the barbershop long enough, you're gonna get a haircut.

So my sister started using drugs with her intravenously, and because Sergio decided to come in and rob my sister and beat her like the way he beat her. I lost two sisters to the age virus. And like I said, it is not like where you can live with stuff like this for twenty years, twenty five years. Um, this is something that kills you. In six months, my sister had a son named e Jane. My sister Laura had a son named Monique. I was getting ready to go to college and a couple of years, Uh, it was

a difficult situation for my family. Then right away I have a sister named Roseanne, who was so beautiful like my hogany and you know she was just beautiful. She married an alcoholic, which we were not happy with. Um. I actually pulled him around back and told him I was not happy with him married my sister. Uh. He told me very nicely, because that's the mold I'm in. Rex. You play with me. I'm nicest guy in the world, but when it comes to my family and my friends,

it's for real, especially my sister. So um, he asked me, and okay me. Uh. Six months later he came up and had a bad day, took a shotgun out and blew my sister head off, and then uh shot himself. I had another brother who was struggling with alcohol abuse run into a wall that said welcome to South Carolina on ninety five. Uh. So I've had and I don't tell any of this for shock value. I just know I've had a lot of business in addiction. UM. Myself, I'm an alcoholic UM, and I have a disease that

tells me I don't have a disease. So at any given moment, I can end up in an institution, I can end up death, I can end up in jail. And you know what's messed up, X, I have a disease. That's the only disease you can go to jail for, right if you're an attic, you can end up in jail because you're an attict. Well, Rex, I end up raising my sister's children, who I legally adopted, And it's nothing like trying to get a eleven year old girl up to go to school and an eight year old boy.

And you're pretty familiar with New York. So I had to wake up one little boy at five o'clock in the morning and then take him all the way from New uh Queens to New York, drop him off of St. Anthony's, and then get back up, wake rewake my daughter. And when they at that ease and kind of getting into the attitude and you know, they want to hear a situation and you know, man natural, I was eighteen eighteen, so um yeah, I took them to school and um

then after school, I had to go to school. So after I finished school, I would have to go pick them up one of Manhattan, one of Queen's. Then I would have to bring him to Luke CORNERSECA who understood this, and uh, they became ball boys and ball girls and you know, doing stuff like that around the gym. Then I had to practice. Then I had to go home help them with their homework, do homework. And not to call this no saint, but you know I played for St.

John's University. You played for Kentucky. That's all nice. You gotta guys got a great program. But you're not in New York City. You know, you're the You're the colle tip of town. You know what I'm saying. So right now, New York had a lot of places to go, a lot of people today had the most famous university in

the world. I'm trying to get that done. And only actorl aid I'll take for the rest of my life is that after four years of college, my kids miss five days of school and I got my degree and I was able to be drafted in the first round, which is a whole new story. I hope you touched on about draft day. I want to ask you something. You've had so much tragedy in your life, but even at that young age taking care of your brother sister,

you know you're sisters kids. You've obviously always cared about people. Um, how did you manage all of that? Being on your shoulders. I know sometimes you probably didn't manage it um as well as you would have liked to. But you're such a caring person and you you wear your emotion on your sleeve. Where does that come from? Well, I think it came from my mother and father splitting up the whole time. I had a tragedy with my uncle did

something very terrible to me when you were seven years old? Right, Yeah, when I was seven years old, he got us drunk and he really hurt me physically. Uh, and my cousin. But you know, I never forget good and him making me drink two glasses of liquor and get into the house and was hung over as a you know, seven eight year old, and I knew I was in trouble when I slept on. Uh. We had a room in South Carolina, was the regular room that we had a good room where furniture was at the plastic on it.

If you were in that room, you're in trouble because my grandmama let nobody use that room. You know, that room was for rehearsal for the choir when they're none singing behind so um. She told me that it was her son who did it that if I was to tell anybody that my daddy would probably get upset and kill his brother. And so that was something that I had to live with and it was a little bit of chip on my shoulder. But you know what, Rex, if you asked me how I raised these children, it

was a family. We have a family that we make how the tragedy, We tell good stories. We get around and we tell the good, the bad and body My family could tell a story. And it was just like it's the next person up, and I was the next person up, and I was about to let them go to force the care. So I, you know, I took them on and it was just like nothing. That's fantastic. With the pick in a draft, the Phoenix start elect Jason Williams from Thanks John Univers, you heard the round

of a blog. Jason william are quite his basketball at Saint John Jain a power forward. The question on Jason Williams was how is this condition? He had an injury foot. They had to place a pen in his foot surgically. This was a man who might have been a lottery pick without that injury to his foot and getting a pin in the foot. Let me just tell you something about draft nights that you played there. You remember back. I didn't go to the to the Madison Square Guard

of Rex. I went to Coach Corner Sector's office and I would look back. This is the funny story. My mother and father would sit back before me, behind me. Now my dad is a really dark skinned black guy with really white eyes. My mother is white, and I would look my My agent told my dad said, look, he didn't go anywhere from five to twenty five. All my dad heard was he going number five. So I

broke my leg. I broke my Footmall senior year. So when number five came the Miami heat, my father jumped up, yeah, and it was like goes to Mark Kessler and my dad was like still clapping. I was like, Dad, that ain't be and he and she said, don't worrybody, you'll be next. This went on. We got the number ten, don't worry by the son, you'll be next. We got the number seventeen was the Knicks, so I he knew I was going there playing at St. John's in New York.

So the number seventeenth pick came on and said New York's pick Jim Right, Rod Moust off. So my dad was like, so I did a double take, right, I said that it's gonna be all right. It's gonna be all right. Now look back again. He looked at my mom and said, babble this something that's gonna had me laying bridge the rest of my life. So so I know this is gonna get a little tricky. I try to let this die down, but hell, they keep losing my luggage and Phoenix anyway, so I gotta send it

without them knowing. You noticed, uh story, Rex, but a lot of your listeners might not know. Um. I was a young man, probably a couple of years younger over circumstances than than what my age really was. I was very immature. But I knew on the twenty second pick I was going to the nets because they called and said, well, this reed said I'm picking you. So it was at the twenty first pick at this time, and you know, back then that was a big deal because they thought

they were getting a lottery pick. Who was hurt that can they can wait for and they had twenty thousand people in the stadium. I didn't know that because I wouldn't paying attention. I didn't know where Phoenix was, and I damn sure wasn't going there. So they said, the number twenty one pick goes to Phoenix Suns and I'm just having a conversation with coach Connor SCA and they said, Jason Williams, and we ain't even here because we won't pay an attention. And then they put a microphone in

my face. They said, hey, Jason, what do you think about going to the Phoenix Suns. I said, go on, well, I say, ain't going to Phoenix. I got the next pick. I'm going to Philadelphia. They said, no, you got drafted by Phoenix and culture trying to shake me and I said, I'm not going to Phoenix. I said, ain't not not there but some red neck pickup driving the teeth in their mouth, having sons of bitches, and the whole stadium

was like and I was like, and that's that. And then at twelve o'clock that night, the governor put on a state of emergency that I was a racist. You know, I didn't even know my mom was right, but I was just not going. And I went there, and I never forget Jerry Colangelo giving me an old Raggy Ltd. And giving subjects a battas a night, hell night, brand

new Cadillac. So I took the car up into the parking lot up in the on the mall and I smashed it up and I put it back down and I said, I bet you I get a car like them all. And uh. The next day I went outside and they had one of them little grand damns, you remember them, little party act. It was three times more than that. Barnaby Jones called and and on the sticker on the window and said, maybe the other car was

too big. This might help him. So I'm not gonna boy you going into what I had to do and destroy their officers. But they end up trading me to the Philadelphia seventy six is And I just made that long story to tell you that subjects A Battles called me and said, man, it was thirty year anniversary. And I just like you, glad. Did you like that cold money in Philadelphia? Because one for you, I'll be out the league. That's right. Um, you got so many interests.

You're just fascinating, so much emotional intelligence. JA I gotta ask, did you love basketball or do you play? Because you were sized and athleticism. That's a good question, right, at times. I love. My dad got me my CDL license when you can sign off on it. But then in two thousand I had to retake the test side CDL that's commercial drivers license has Matt we My dad had a trucking company. He had a gas station and construct your company. So I build most of my friends their homes, um

their foundations, and they take it from there. But you people don't know this Rex that every morning I had to wake up at four forty four, my dad had come. We had a big farms, about seven animals. I had to feed up and it was pretty much now I know why. He'd be like, Jake, count them goats, and I'd be like, God, the goots right, and then be like, I mean one to eighteen. I make up a number right there. I try to remember what happened two days ago, and I'd be like, eighty four hen, like you're a

damn lie. He said they had a kid. That's what you call a little goat. Last night he gonna count them again, and I'll be like, hell, what eighty four one? It's fine, But you can't never talk like that my dad, because um, my dad wants put some lad in my brother for drinking because he didn't tolerate drinking. Put a little twenty two and is behind. But um, he did that because he knew I needed accountability to get up in the morning. My dad knew I had to stay busy.

And what happened to me in my life, Rex is that when I lose my structure, soon came destruction. So even to today, if I don't get up in the morning and get to the weight room, I don't get up in the morning and get myself together, I'm a hot mess and it doesn't work. It never changes, you know. My dad knews that. He used to say, let me tell you something about your son, Barbara. He said, that's something bit reflicted. She needs to stay busy. The way

that Jason has overcome and persevered. I mean, my goodness, wow, taking blow after blow and coming out on the other side from such a young age as all inspiring in hindsight. His selflessness was his greatest asset, but may have been as achilles heel as well. He give and give, but how much was left for himself and his craft? His will, efforts, and desire carried him to a sea of riches, but the shallow end of his eternal pool was draining dangerously

low to the bottom. You know, you were so crucial to your team winning your averaging thirteen and thirteen and an All Star. You signed a big deal for you know, ninety million dollars. I want the listeners to know how important it was to have a guy like you who was great at what you did, and how did your life change when you signed that deal. Well, I was doing pretty good before. I was building a nice house.

My dad built me a mega house. You probably go on cribs and find it, but he built it himself. What it did was i'mna quite honest. It probably took the fire out of me um a little bit. And but the one of what it does do Rex, You know that because it happened to you the whole time, because color of your skin. And then you came out playing and use such a high lottery pick. Theres so much hopes for I came in backing up Derrick Coleman and being the backup and coming and out play those guys,

and you can get the headlines. But it's a difference whout the rabbit got the gun right. It's a difference when you know it's no fun when the rabbit got the guns. So when you is the man who's supposed to win, now you're taking the winds and the losses, but you know everybody expect you to win and get these numbers. It seemed like everybody was focusing more on me in the pre game the other teams, and it was tougher and tougher, and they was like, hey, man,

keep them offensive. Off the board had three or four people checking me out. I think what hurt me the most was when we had the all the lockout season and we came back and nobody was ready. Well I wasn't ready, you know. I was still like hemn being no season and I'm gonna do what I do best. You know, I'm coming on with three o'clock in the morning. Um. And I thought that I could move out of the way of us, you know, Stephon Marbury who uh steff

On Malbury. Uh, you know he had this big old head and I planned to go up and Mutumbo knocked him into my knee and the first year, first year, first year, sixteen games in the contract and broke my leg and I never really played again. I tried to make a comeback three years later, and then you conversate on one leg and your break the fifth metal TOSSU which gets no blood, and the other. But as far as making the money, it's more important to keep in the locker room. What happened was we had a good

locker room until we got certain people. See, I had one of these owners. God blessed him. He died, but he had the idea that, you know, trainee Sam Casale, who you know is great in the locker room, to step on Marlbury. Um. And me and Marlbury didn't get along. We didn't see eye to eye and he didn't see eye eye with a lot of teammates, and it just brought the morale now for me. My um. But uh, I just thought that was it, and it just I loved well. I love basketball. You asked me a question

that I love playing. I love construction and driving trunk more. But I loved when we won, and I loved when I was in the meadowlands and had those fans. Matter of fact, I had a season ticket. All the season ticket holders was allowed to come to my house once a year, which was about five thousand, and I get the norm and hang out. I love the camaraderie. I love seeing people smile and feel good actually playing the game. You really had to poke the bear uh to get

me going. So I played hard every day. And because hustle is the talent I tell these kids all the day. You know, hell, you know no bigger talent than diving on lo balls, grabbing offensive rebounds, which I think I

don't think anybody has broken that record. And um and and just going out and and taking charges, and nothing worse or nothing better than grabbing the offensive rebound and throw it back to Sam and he missing it, and go and get another one, throw it back to Sam and then he make it and and he makes all the rest, you know. And I love that when just love making people feel good. But when you get some bad apples on the team, you know that, when you get some dudes on the team. And I was this guy.

I was always the enforcer in the locker roo. I'm be like looking at man, you say thank you for the person picking up the tower, you say thank you for the to the ball boys, and you quit moping around here because you're making twenty million dollars. Look, when we had to strike, I paid every single person that worked in the in the meadowlands so all these people are serving popcorn union workers all that I paid. You know, I paid them because they were missing for the games.

You know these other guys that come in and you know, reach over at the popcorn makeup and just snack some popcorn out their hand. Not all these guys, just one idiot. Uh and Uh, I said, hey man, he gotta pay for that popcorn. When you get back, you know you're gonna get up and pay for it. Was literally times. Then I will stop and called time out when I've seen it and make him go into the room and get some money and paid them. So that's the kind of program I ran there. Um and it was good

when we had good people. You know, Jason, you if I had one word, if somebody said, you know, describe Jason Williams to me as a basketball player, my uh answer is always relentless. You were just relentless and that's what made you such a great teammate. You. So you've broken your leg and at this point you've talked with the doctors you try to make a comeback. Uh, you've kind of decided it's not gonna happen. Did there come a point where you thought your life was spiraling out

of control. You know what happened. I went to school at St. John's University. I got remember degree and I used it right away. It was communications and liberal hearts. I jumped right into NBC and I was Charles Barkley and uh, what's the guys straight hand before straight hand? And all these guys didn't that stuff. Yeah, I was on NBC and I was making it fun and I never gave stats. I love it when Shaquille and all these guys got up there go, well, we're gonna get

eighteen point seven rebounds. Who the hell knows how many gonna get eighteen point seven? And that the viewer care if you don't want to hear about, you know, a funny story like we've been telling tonight. Right, I can't tell you who're gonna win the damn game, And neither kid anybody on that panel. Right. So I kept lively and we were number one. Man, we were number one at that time. When you start playing bad, don't you notice disrect you start getting more and more people around you.

You know, misery loves company. Yeah, so all of a sudden, you know, the core people like the wrong rutledges and uh my brother and the George Patters and the Daniel Shays. All the guys that were close to me would say, hey, j it's eleven thirty. We got one tomorrow, we got a game. Time to go, you know, finish that up.

And then I look around. You see a pretty girl, you see something and be like then, but then you see a whole bunch of other guys and they'll come over to you, send you a drinking and say, hey man, you ain't got to go. You're doing what you do. The team sucks, you know, And then all the sunnen you get a bigger group of people hanging out with you, and your core people leave. Now you don't know that

team of people that's around you. Now they have a group of people around them rex now before and they have a group. So before you know what, you're sitting up in the club and you with thirty people you don't know, and your core group is gone. And then all the sudden, you got some people crea because they got a plan. They create drama in the club. And then when big guy comes over and he tries to put it out so he could move up in status, uh and beside and before you knew it, you're lost.

And that's what happened to me. I became lost, and it was because at this point I was crying in my milk. At that point, I'm crying in my milk now when I get sad. Before I was crying in about a Scotch And that's dangerous. And then you know, you have a house for the people and a lot of things gonna go wrong. And I think the biggest thing that happened to me was I got too big for my bridges. First of all, Um, I started trusting in everyone else instead of trusting in God first and

then trusting in my core people. And like I said, with our structure came instruction, and I was just like, you know what, I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. I'm just gonna be Hollywood hell with that. And I had the best job as the highest paid guy. He was on the way to win an enemy. UH rememby thirty one and then uh I had I had an accident that I recklessly caused and and recklessly ran away from and and I had to uh and I'm deeply sorry to Mr Kristaphi and his family, and I had

to go. I went to prison and I was there for twenty seven months, and uh, a lot of things changed from then. Let me ask this, where did your desire to own guns come from? Look, I'm from Kentucky, so I know gun culture. Um, but you're a guy from New York with a construction background. How did all these guns end up at your house? Well, I'm gonna tell you two things, and it's honest truth. First of all, I had skeep machines. If you watch MTV crib, you

know I had skeep machines. I grew up in South Carolina for a while, so we would do you know, clay shootings. So all the guns in my house, you know, shotguns, So they were all for clay machines. Uh. The problem I had was leaving them uh locked at times, and the trusting people to put them back. What happened that night there was a shell in the gun. I'm not gonna blame it. It was my gun. I own it. Uh, I did not mean to. I did not know Mr can stop feeds in the room. The gun went off,

hit him and killed him in called nine one. I panic ran away. It's something that's going to follow me for the rest of my life. But it's and I'm sorry your use of alcohol has gotten you into a lot of trouble. Obviously, alcohol and guns don't fix that's gotten you where you are today. But where you go from today, how you handle the rest of your life, it's entirely in your hands, and you're gonna choose your

own path. So with regard to these matters, on the charge of hindering apprehension, which is the third degree crime, on the charge of tampering with that with witnesses, which is also a third degree crime. On each of those matters, of the be a five year term in state prison. On the count the fourth degree account of aggravating assaulted, it will be an eighteen month term eighteen months to be served without parole. The council will run concurring to

each other. So it's a net aggravate term of five years in state prison eighteen months to be served without parole. To my family, please for give me for the pain that I cause to you my children. Did you deserve a better father, son, brother than I have been? Judge Coleman and the Christopher family. Not a bad man, but I actually active battling on right fourteen. I will work endlessly to prove myself to continue to help others and

again make positive contributions and our society. That's who I am and that's who I want my daughter to be proud of. When you get a wrong group of people around you, Rex, and this happens to a lot of NFL guys and a lot of guys who an NBA, who have a posse. When you don't have your original posse no more who know that you can do what you can do and gonna tell you the way it is. You start owning guns because nobody's gonna rob us in the club. Rex, We're spending money, we got more security,

more bouncers. They're gonna make sure you're gonna be all right, and nobody wants that publicity. Plus I'm from New York City. I can handle myself. Everybody in the city that we'll do something like that has the much most respect for me. Um. It becomes where you hold guns because you're hanging out with people who know your intimate secrets right, and you

because your secrets right. So you have a gun and you're just letting them know you see this, you know, and it ain't for you know, uh t bone or salve or Anthony to come take your money. It's for the inner group going, Hey, man, you been not telling nobody what time we were out do and what we was doing, and bet not tell about that goat and and uh, you know all these kind of craziness um and that and not be honest with you. That's the true answer. And that's why athletes carry guns. We don't

carry guns. Who the hell are we you We're gonna shoot our way out the club. It's just for the inner circle that we don't trust that tell us how good we are. And no, damn, well my daddy say this, love many trust ifew pat of your own damn canoe nice? I love your dad. I've never met him. Uh. They sound like an unbelievable man. Hey, to share this stuff

is huge. Um. I've heard you talk about the people around you and your behavior the night of the shooting, and I've heard you say you acted like a coward. But now that you're sober, clean, you've had all this time, do you even feel like that was you? Or was that some other version of yourself where you're just broken at this point? Uh, you know want something when you hear this and you just see nothing and you see somebody hit the ground, You're like, your first is to

protect yourself, I guess, and me run. I never remember this, jumping in the swimming pool, coming back button naked and you know, but I remember watching not in less than ten seconds, calling and I remember coming back. Everybody's trying to tell a story, like probably including myself. I think I was selfish. I think um, if I was with the right crew, it was Ron Rutledge, my brother, any one of the group that helped me get to where

I am, Danny Mizelle's, uh Joe and Mike Kaiser. I would have been in a situation where he said, Jay, you had an accident. Stop stop man. What happens is you just panic. You're going to shock And if you ever accidentally killing man, it's never the same. You know, you're taking something from everything he got and everything he's gonna app And sometimes when I'm having a real good time, I just stopped laughing and I love to laugh, and I go, damn, I did something that could have been avoidable.

I was reckless. Jay. You said you think about the accident and the mistake every day. At the time, you said, you've gone to Mr Chris stuff he's grave more than your own father's. Uh. Do you think the weight of that mistake led to probably even more alcohol abuse or do you think once you've crossed a certain point with drinking, you were just an alcoholic and someone who like me would be in recovery for the rest of your life. Well,

I think it's the ripple effect. It's the effect that when you get out of jail, you said, look, I paid my debt to society, I'm out, NBA, you will help me. Uh. Not that you needed resources, but you want to get back with the camaraderie, that's right. Uh, And people go, oh, I can't touch you night, Gonna

need a little time. Well it's been twenty years later, and about five years ago now the NBA letters partner up with them, uh to have a center where we can help people in anxiety, depression and drugs and alcohol and um, that's where I'm at right now. Jason Williams alcohol once controlled every aspect of his life. However, for the last twenty seven months that's no longer been the case.

Williams battled alcoholism for years. He came down to Palm Beach County for treatment and to get help through the advice of his friend Charles Oakley. Now he's helping others. For fifty three year old Jason William this is just another day at the office, his office. You see, it's actually a rehabilitation program which uses adventure sports to joke addicts out at their bad head. Be honest with you, I'm very, very good through the grace of God and

getting people better. Probably the highest in the country, jumping out of airplanes, uh, scuba diving with our therapists and psychiatrists. With us, we do nineteen different crazy outdoor activities and then boom, we go right into our treatment. And you know, we're out from six o'clock in the morning until eight o'clock at night. And people exhaust, they lose weight, they gain muscle, build self esteem, breakdown barriers. It's like no

other program in the country that does this. And I have to be there seven days a week, so it keeps me accountable. But be honest between me and you, Rex, what it does is it deflects. For right now, it keeps my mind off for the awful things that I have done. And guess when I get home, I'm so tired that I go to sleep and then tomorrow, Rinch Wash repeat every day, Rinch Ross repeat. But like I said, it's about the program that people say, well, Jason stuck

down there. You know, we get the toughest cases. And uh, because I'm a warning on example, how many people have been through the things that I've been through, So you know, not only with our psychiatrists and our coaches and all the people. Look, look we got your man Mike Jaminski down here, and right now, he came down and he's on one year sober, and much as he wanted to be on this show today he goes, look, I'm teaching

that one of the two class. And you know he told me three months ago he says, I found my calling, you know. So as much as he's on CBS, man Mike is working down here with us. Um, we have had some of them, you know, and we don't get the easy cases because it's hard to get somebody who hasn't hit their rock bottom. You know. It's easy when we get the guy that says, well, I'm down there for d w I and the judge said, look, he ain't there for sixty days calling me You're going to

jail right. Uh. But when you get somebody who has an endless amount of resources. You have to be very clever to find something to leverage them with um and most of the time is finding their purpose. And that's where the skills life. You know, your skills, ability and going this way, and the and and the the abilities of the world are going. You know this way, the needs of the world. Skills and ability going this way, and the needs of the world going this way. That's

your purpose. My purpose is getting up every morning help with somebody. When did you know you were gonna do this? I didn't because you know what happened. I wasn't going to treatment. So you know it took Charles Oakley UH and Curtis Martin. Now they came up to a cabin. And you know how the brothers are right. The brothers buy a range Rover and it ain't for a range Rover, you know. They buy a range Rover and put white interior in it. So oak brings up to this. I

bought it, uh from Jennifer Lopez and her husband. I bought a cabin on the top of the hill, and I had the resentments four in the Big book, you know, f everybody you know, and I'm a lift here read watering on the on and the hell with everybody. And after sixteen days it was like red rum. I was drinking a gall on the liquor. You know, you came in there looked like the shining. So they came up

to do an intervention along with with Chris Mother. They never want to leave Chris House and Chris Heron and all these guys that have helped me. But when Oakley came up, you know, he came up with something behind his back because he was mad. Because when you get out of this white interior, brand new Alexis, he was on clay and mud, right, and now you know he's

on dirty his truck Arraine droping that meant to be dirty? Uh. And then we go inside with Curtis and Curtis, I give you, Jane, you know what you got to do. What would Jesus do? Right? And I will watch him. He's in front of me. Look over my shoulder. Now from being in prison, somebody look over your shoulder, You look back, you know. So I look back and and Oka put something behind his back. I said, what the hell he got by his back? Now I'm drunk, I'm

doing it. They're doing an intervention I'm drinking the gall of the moonshine. I'm really drunk. So the next time he did it and looked over his shoulder, I looked back and hit it again. I didn't deva take and Oak had illuminum back and he said, look, man, you're going to treatment. And Curtis was like, what would Jesus do? And what would Jesus do? Had a lot less on me then with when Oak with this big baseball back

looming them back, so I said I I'll go. And he had a cop like you know, like like Reggie, you know, Bucky. Then Greg Nettles, you know he's ready hit me. Um, and they got me down the treatment and I never forget asking Oak, was you really gonna hit me with that baseball back? He said all day long? And I said, well, have you ever hit anybody with looming the baseball back? Because I want to know how you gauge that? Is it a full swing? It's a

little tap? You know? What was the games? He said? Jason, I was gonna hit your ass until you got in the truck and we got you the Florida. I went down and after thirty days, see I go again. Jason, me and Jason coming back, going I'm out, let's go give me a job, you know, let's let's have fun back on television, and that anybody said, huh, man, you

gotta go back. And I went back, and you know, I volunteered out a couple of places and didn't have the energy that I needed and didn't have the outdoor venture therapy and because that stuff builds his steam and it loses weight, and you know, it's just it's just a tremendous program that I end up saying, Okay, I'm gonna stay here for a year. And now it's six years later and rebound and still going strong. And you know what happens rex Sometimes you get in the knucklehead. Man.

I got some knuckleheads that come in, especially the players. You know, God, you know it's hard for a player to come in because we're taught out to surrender. Man. Oh man, ain't got no problem. Man. I smoke a little reef forever at once, oh while, you know, and then I go, okay, man, pe in this cup and the light up like a Christmas tree, you know, and then you go look man, and then they're go okay, yeah, man.

I had that one night and this and that, and then you three days later you see everybody wearing the Rebound shirt, which means more to me, or as much to me as them getting better, because that means that they released the stigma. And once you release the stigma and you wear this shirt, that means right now you be hold accountable right because you went down there. See a lot of players don't want to go down there because they're still rather bag you know, wine, and you know,

don't let nobody know. People are gonna look at you go, hey, man, didn't you just get help? Hell no, I'm not serving you. Hey no, I'm not giving you no money even to get your ass back to Jason. And I love it with old grandmothers call me about their kids and they go, hey, I don't toell this boy. You better get your ass back to Jason. They don't even know the name of

the program. You better go see Jason. You know. So I take a lot of pride in what we do, man, And you've been down to visit a few times as observer and something that you know, always helping, and you know, I'm so proud of where we both have come. You know, I'm so excited to do your show. I'd be quite honest with you, I'm very uncomfortable doing these shows. But for you, Rex, you know, all in for you because

let me tell you something. You know, um and one and for like one year, Man, he was hitting it. We that guy founding you're doing talks, you were knocking it out the park. And uh, every time I see you, Man, you just light up. And you don't know how much that makes me feel. Brother, that you light up every time that you see me, and that makes me feel very, very very special. I love you, bro, And you gotta know this, Jay, you light the world up. Everybody that

knows you, everybody that's come in contact with you. You're Tony Kornheiser said at once about me. But I think about it. When I think about you, You're incandescent. Your light can't be put out. And you do bring joy your helping so many people down there, for instance. And you tell Mike that that I said this. I haven't talked to Mike Jiminski in a couple of years, but a mutual friend of ours I bumped into in an airport about eighteen months ago and I said, Hey, have

you talked to g Man? He said, g Man is not doing real well. Rex, I said, really, I had no idea, and then I followed up with a couple of friends and then lo and behold, I talked to you a few weeks ago, and he's down there with you, and I am so proud. I'm so happy that because you know, hey, Mike's older. Mike's older, and it does there's a stigma that goes, you know, with asking for help, and so you tell him. I'm proud of him. I love him to death. You keep doing what you're doing, man, Jay.

I want to thank you for joining me, telling us about your work and recovery and be unwilling to own your own mistakes and your actions and to try to make sure you help other people. I want you to know my door is always open to you, brother, and I love you. Thank you. I love you, brother. Be well, God bless charges selling no run Nians with the law charges super least send the tennis and ball ass and

charges the celebrity gank forlorums. Charges we came along with from living lawless charges selling no run Nians with the law charges sheper least send the tennis and ball ass and charges the celebrity gank. Forums and Charge we came along with from living Lawless. Charge Charges is created by Portlay and Control Media. It's produced by DV Podcasts in association with I heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.