The Art of Coaching: A New Perspective on Leadership

He's the author of Own your Day Coaching Sales People into Sales Champions , the number one best-selling sales management coaching book on Amazon , and Sales Leadership , which was named Amazon's 2018 Sales Leadership Book of the Year . He was also named one of the most influential coaches by Inc Magazine and Fast Company .

Keith , it's a pleasure to have you on our CHAPcast today . Thanks for joining us . Oh , thank you for having me . Also joining the podcast is my colleague and compadre , cassie Ellison . She's CHAP's VP for growth consulting . Hi Chapp , hi Cassie . Welcome to CHAPcast . Is there anything else you would like our listeners to know about what you do ?

It's going to really resonate with the challenges of sales leadership and coaching . So thank you for having me .

We're setting the tone , essentially the first contact many times for representing the company . So that's really important and I think you know , we know that it's really changing an uncertain landscape and healthcare today . We know that sales leaders are really busy .

But , keith , I guess my question to you is , with all that sort of uncertainty and change and chaos that is happening in the healthcare continuum , what happens to coaching in that to-do list for a sales manager rather than go out sell , sell , sell ?

I would think the leadership piece of that , which is coaching and mentorship , really is a huge piece to developing that sales team in order to be that wonderful first representation to outside of the company .

So when leaders today which they're extremely busy , ceo confidence and sales management confidence is at an all-time low , 76 to 84% of all issues are a result of faulty communication .

Because of this , managers are actually losing one full day each week as a result of faulty communication , which financially results in about $12,000 of a cost per each member on their team . So there's all this uncertainty and change on top of the fact that managers and leaders have never been trained , mostly had a coach .

Forget about coaching in a remote or a hybrid world . So when managers say we're too busy to coach , they think coaching is something you do . No , it's who you are and it's how you show up . I don't change the way I show up every day . It's who I am .

So when managers say I'm too busy to coach , it's like saying , well , I'm too busy to breathe , because coaching is simply a language . Look at sales . Look at your best salespeople . They're probably the strongest communicators , just like your leaders they're probably your best . Leaders are probably the strongest communicators .

Down to why leaders are not engaging with coaching , it's because they don't have the language of leadership . So what I find is when managers tell me oh , keith , we want our people to coach , 70% of the time no , coaching is something you do because it's simply a language .

So , just like if we're learning Spanish or Italian or Uruguay or any language , managers and salespeople need to learn the language of coaching because that's what people need today . And three years ago to today , the landscape of course of selling has changed .

As a matter of fact this is a scary statistic 76% of all companies since the pandemic have changed the way they buy . So Kierman has changed . Number of decision makers have changed , factors they use to make decisions have changed , but only 17% of companies change the way they sell .

That's a major disparity right there , because if you're still managing coaching and selling the way you were pre-pandemic , you already set up the failure . The rules are different . I just share it . Some statistics which we never dealt with before . Attrition is at an all-time high . Interestingly , in certain industries it's even higher .

So when it comes to managers telling me they don't have time to coach , it's because they don't understand that coaching is just simply the way you come across .

When you read any kind of literature out there , that's really . It's not just money . They want to be part of the fabric of the organization . For many different reasons , for diversity reasons , but one of the big things the standouts is that they want to be mentors , they want to be coached . It's an expectation for them of that generation .

So what you're saying , I feel aligns yes , things have changed , but it's changing with generational needs . Would you have anything to say about that ? Disagree , agree , tell me , I'm out of my mind , or what ? No ?

If anyone goes and does research online , money is never the number one anymore . Out of the top five , money's like number four , maybe five . What people want today is they wanna be connected , they wanna be part of something . They wanna be able to contribute , they wanna have a cause , they wanna have a passion , they wanna know they're making an impact .

That's what people want today . So then , how do managers coach to that when they're sure used to running around and saying you know your target right , you know your target right , you know how much you have to close right . That doesn't do anything but just annoy your direct reports . It's not helping them grow .

So what's a way to help people grow , regardless of generational gaps ? The one thing about coaching is that it's agnostic . Well , at least my approach is , so if someone approaches me , I'm gonna share what I call the one minute coaching strategy . As a matter of fact , I can probably do it in 30 seconds , so let's put our timer on .

Someone comes to you looking for help . You have two choices you could be the chief problem solver , you give them the answer , or you can ask a question , and the question is very simple . Hey , jennifer , thanks for coming to me . I really appreciate that . However , you're much closer to this situation than I am and I trust you and I trust your judgment .

So what's your opinion on how to move forward and achieve the results you want ? Now ? I'm from New York , I talk pretty fast and that was under 30 seconds . You can use that strategy with anyone because , think about it , we're acknowledging the fact . Yes , I will share my idea .

Number two you're acknowledging the fact that they're closer to the situation than you are . You're also letting them know that I trust you , I trust your judgment . What do you think that's going to do to their confidence and also the relationship they're gonna have with their manager ?

And since we're talking about leadership and sales being a precise language , notice the final question I asked . I asked what's your opinion on how to achieve this ? I don't ask what result ? How are you gonna achieve this result ? I don't ask what's your strategy .

I don't ask what's your solution or answer , because strategies , answers and solutions can be right or wrong . Opinions are never right or wrong and everyone has one . So no one can come to you and say , well , I don't know , you don't know your own opinion .

So it provides the opportunity for the coach to hear what the coach is sharing and create that coaching moment for that .

There's just been changes with the high costs of staffing these days , in the same reimbursements , you're seeing that organizations are starting to invest less in sales leadership , meaning sales leaders have sometimes even double the direct reports than they did previously .

And so it is a challenge being extremely busy to keep up with the administrative side of things , the strategic planning side of things , but , most importantly , your people . Without your people , you don't have anything , and so that's the thing that we coach to . A lot is how can we really manage our week with intention ?

So not letting your week run you , but you running your week and knowing that in order to win , I mean you have to connect with your team . You have to get out there in the field and have those coaching opportunities and build that trust with your team . So when they do need coaching , they'll come to you because they trust you .

They trust that they can come to their leader and work through things as they occur . So I do see that we're working with an organization right now that they're getting creative on how they can layer in more sales leadership and starting with a level one of peer mentorship .

So I think really getting creative on having the adequate number of people to do effective coaching is key for winning in sales today . I do wanna comment on chief problem solver . When you mentioned that , keith , reading your book years ago as an early leader myself , I will admit I was a chief problem solver .

If you had a problem I had the answer and I was so excited to give the answer . But what I found was that I kinda created a co-dependency problem . Right , my phone was ringing a lot because everybody needed help to solve the various problems about their day .

So , adopting the coaching that in your book the 67th second coaching and really having those conversations with your team , I just saw such a difference and it's the right thing to do .

It's to grow leaders , it's to grow your team professionally and how to problem solve and get them confident in their selves to be able to feel good about making decisions , as they have different things that occur throughout their day .

So we see this a lot with the growth solutions and we do a lot of sales leadership coaching and training and how to effectively manage your week to be able to manage all parts of sales leadership .

Managers are like heat seeking missiles they love looking for problems and they love solving problems . As a matter of fact , I've seen countless job descriptions that actually say good problem solver , but it doesn't say good coach . Well , wait a second , who's doing the work when you're coaching ? If the manager is doing all the work , that's not coaching .

Coaching is about leading with questions , not leading with answers , and I think we need to take a moment here , and even the playing field , about what a simple definition of coaching even is , because if you go throughout an organization , I can tell you right now there is no commonality in a definition of what coaching is .

So , rather than share a long academic definition , here's the definition of coaching it's the art and language of creating new possibilities . So now take that definition and for every manager , every people , leader , think about the conversations you're having . If you're having redundant conversations , well , you're certainly not creating a new possibility .

If you leave that conversation with a new possibility , new ideas , new approaches that you've collaborated on with your coachee . That's a good sign that you're doing some really good coaching . And a couple of other points to really nail down .

The cost of being a chief problem solver is that , even though managers are coming from a good place , consider how the coachee is dealing . Now , don't get me wrong . Some of your people are gonna be really happy . This is great . I go to my manager . They give me the answer , and the best part about it is , if the answer doesn't work , it's their fault .

We actually rob people of the very accountability we're looking to build . It's insane . So consider this every time you give an answer . While there are some people that want that from their manager , there are other people that truly want to be coached and they understand that coachee is going to help them develop .

And when a manager gives them an answer , what they don't see or what they don't hear is that coachee thinking well , gee , my manager didn't even , they didn't even ask my opinion . I guess they don't trust me . I guess they don't think I can do my job . Now you tell me . What's that going to do to someone's confidence ? It's gonna absolutely destroy it .

And if that's not enough of a cost for those managers that see themselves adopting more employees on their team . Remember this one thing If it's one case for coaching , it's this you can't scale dependency . You can't scale it .

You know , in my 38 years as a nurse , lately it seems to me like there seems to be lack of critical thinking on the clinician side . Right , but you know what , maybe it's there and it's not being coached out , maybe . Maybe I'm not saying that's the case for everything .

And you know , on the clinical side you have to sometimes say the regs say this , this is what we have to do , but I think there's more room to help clinicians and folks that are involved in that piece to draw out what they know is to help them grow .

And I think , exactly , there's a lot of problem solving happening on that side of the fence in an organization as well .

And we have to , as you mentioned , you have to make time for it or we're not gonna keep those millennials , the Gen Zers , the , whatever the next generation is gonna be called after that , we're not gonna keep them engaged and keep them happy in an organization if managers now and moving forward don't develop that skill ?

And I know this might hit people I don't know , I'm gonna say maybe in a different way but the dominant strategy for sales and for leadership is care . That's what people want today . We have never been in a situation where we have so much exposure into people's lives than we do now . After all , I'm in my office . You guys are in your office , you're home .

When I'm speaking to my clients , when I'm doing a video call , I'm in my client's home , whether it's in their if they have a home office or in their kitchen or wherever they're conducting the meeting . But I'm in their home , I'm in their office .

That's such an opportunity to connect with people at a deeper level and change those conversations not just from a business conversation but to a personal conversation . Because consider this for those people and there are many , many that are still struggling out there so are your clients .

Then mom says no , and of course I'm the softy , so then of course I'll say yes . When it comes to the struggles that salespeople are going out there and so much pressure , how do they mean their focus ? How do they keep their confidence ? There's several things . Number one and this is more of a self-assessment for everyone is do you have a personal vision ?

Do you have your core values laid out ? Do you know what your specific goals are ? Do you know what your intrinsic motivation is ? When we have our core vision in front , that becomes our North Star , that becomes our guiding light . The one thing and this is really the responsibility of the manager is that there is a skill that I teach called enrollment .

I want you to consider if , in vision , in my left hand I'm holding the companies and the individual contributors , business objectives , in the right hand I'm holding their personal goals . Imagine if you're able to align each person's personal goals with their business objectives . Now there's alignment .

Now that individual is thinking , oh well , if I achieve this in my job , I'll achieve this personally . Most managers don't connect it because enrollment is a learned skill . Part of what I see with what great managers are doing , it's not just creating a vision statement for the company and putting it on a wall . That was designed by marketing .

Of course , no offense to marketing . They do wonderful work . Except if we want people to truly own something , it doesn't matter if someone else creates it . What we create , we own . What we create we act on . If someone is creating their own vision , identifying their core values , identifying what their goals are , that keeps them honest .

It keeps them in that same lane . When we're talking about a sales slum , how do you keep people engaged and confident ? Well , does the manager have any idea what motivates each individual on their team ?

I will go so far and please feel free to anyone to challenge me on this , but the majority of managers have no clue what their people want , what they're motivated by , how they're like to be held accountable , how they like to be inspired . They don't know that . So what do they do . They make assumptions .

So one of the leading cause of lost sales , strained relationships , turnover is assumptions , because either we're assuming or we're assessing . And since we're talking about some traps that managers fall into , one of the greatest traps I see is they manage or coach in their own image .

So , for example , if I'm not taking the time to uncover how you like to be coached , motivated , held accountable , what am I gonna do ? Well , I'm gonna think well , gee , this is how I like to be motivated , inspired and held accountable , so I'll assume that's how you like to be motivated and held accountable as well .

And then we wonder why people are leaving , or even managers saying to me gee , you know , I like to be managed in a very direct way , but when I do it to my team , some of them have cried .

That should be a good sign , and this is the opportunity to have conversations and sit down and talk about what motivates you , what gets you out of bed every day , what inspires you , what are the things you'd like to do more of at home ? How good are you with turning off work at the end of the day ? How good are you at managing your self-care ?

How well are you taking care of yourself . How do you stay focused on your priorities while balancing the performance you have at work ? See , these are the questions no manager is asking because they're much more personal . Well , keep those personal questions .

I'm thinking you know , part of what we're doing in Gross Solution is helping the customers who engage with us to really look at that landscape of their staff and figure those things out . Is that fair to say ?

And oftentimes we hear , well , we assign a quota and a territory and they go and it's about get out there , make the sales calls , you know what your number is and that's it . So a large part of what we're seeing is , you know , all those things that Keith just talked to can be worked into a weekly cadence .

And again , I go back to just being very intentional in coaching your people and connecting with your people for that dominance of care and so that definitely is something that we talk to a lot of organizations about is how do you balance everything and ensure that you're investing in your team ? And I will say , keith , you mentioned the enroll step .

That is , so many leaders make assumptions about their sales team and what motivates them , and when you I challenge them to have an enroll conversation , they always walk away learning something new about their person and you will find you've made assumptions about these folks that just are not correct .

And so such a such a key step in engaging someone into owning their goal and their plan to win in their territory . So such an important part of this step .

So the point is , if a manager shares a new initiative or something you have to do , they could play the power card and their people will say , well , I guess I want to keep my job , so I'll . I guess I'll do this thing .

But keep in mind something If you truly want to create engagement and alignment , remember something , and this applies to every conversation when your intentions are not clear , people default to fear . So if I'm a manager and I send you an email and in the email subsequent it says call me ASAP , what's your first reaction ? It's not .

My boss wants to tell me how amazing I am . It's going to be uh-oh . What did I do wrong ? Did I lose a sale ? Am I getting terminated ? Am I being put on a pit ? We never go to the positive .

That's why it's so critical for everyone to always be clear that when you're sharing or trying to create buy-in or enrollment or change , you must share what's in it for them and what the intent is . You also mentioned I don't want to step over anything here you mentioned about critical thinking .

Critical thinking when people hear that they think it's all about helping them formulate decisions in their mind , become a more either divergent or convergent thinker . But what they , what people don't realize , is that critical thinking isn't only working from your head , it's also listening to your heart and to me , that's where the best leaders are coaching from .

It's from their heart , not from their head . And if there's one thing I also don't want to step over is confidence , because this is one of the things that I see everyone is struggling today and I've been asked so many times . Keith , you know I am my people falling into a sales slump .

So when , two minutes , I'm going to share how to eliminate a sales slump . If you look at how people develop their confidence , most people will say well , my confidence goes up when I achieve something . So if we take a sales person , for example , well , here's my confidence . I earn a new client . What happens to my confidence ?

It goes up , my confidence rises , I'm feeling good , I'm feeling productive , I'm feeling connected to what I'm doing and to my people . Wow , what happens ? I sell another deal , uh-oh , I just lost a big account . What do you think happens to my confidence ? It drops . And then my confidence drops . I'm not assures myself .

Well , then I have another conversation and then I lose another opportunity . If anyone wants to know of the cause of a sales slump , it's tied directly into confidence . And let me be exceedingly clear . You have been lied to your entire life . You have been told that confidence is a result of results .

Well , what if I was to tell you that confidence has no relationship to results anymore ? One of my favorite quotes is by a philosopher , haifetz , a Persian philosopher , and the quote is I am happy before I have a reason .

If we are allowing external factors to dictate our internal condition , you will always find yourself , your condition internally , your internal power , your internal energy , being robbed by external situations . Oh , once I hit my quota , I'll be happy . For how long ? A day , a week , a second , and then the counter resets to zero . So this is the inner game .

You know we've talked about what we can do to help our people develop , our clients develop . What about the go-be ? How can we help coach people in the inner game ? Confidence is just a choice . There is no more relationship between confidence and results . So consider this I am confident because I'm confident .

I am confident because I have already proven myself and my self-worth . That does not mean you're not going to still strive for excellence . It just means that those results have no reflection on who you are and the quality that you bring to others .

Wow , there are so many pearls of wisdom that I'll be taking away from our conversation today , and I wanted to thank you again , keith and Cassie , for joining the podcast . So , each of you . Any final thoughts for our listeners out there in podcast land .

So I hope there's some nuggets everybody can take away from this call today , and if you haven't read Keith Rosen's books , I highly recommend them .

I'm out there , I'm a clinician , I'm selling the organization . So that was a realization for me that it's not like the siloed thing , it permeates throughout the organization .

Because if I'm in sales and I need to give something to a clinician and they said they wanted it , you know immediately I'm running over to marketing and saying , hey , I need you to produce this for me . But you know what we're not doing ? We're not respecting them , we're not respecting their time , we're not respecting that .

There are other things on their plate . So what if we turn that model around ? And what if we say , hey , I'd love to redesign our relationship of how our departments work together so we can achieve our mutual goals ? That's creating new possibilities . So I just wanted to share that Number one .

Number two when everyone is speaking coaching , that's how you develop a coaching culture . If every department is speaking coaching , if my direct report is speaking coaching my salespeople yes , they're coaching customers . That's the evolution . If my boss is speaking coaching , we're all aligned and connected .

That's the secret to developing a coaching culture In terms of a couple of things that I'd like to share , just to wrap up from my end . For those of you that would like to tap into any more of my resources , I have tons of resources on my blog , keithrosencom , and please connect with me on LinkedIn and , of course , on Twitter .

There's a newsletter I have that you can sign up for , where I'm always sharing different tools for leaders and salespeople and , of course , things that affect our life balance . Right , because that's the one thing that we all struggle with is maintaining that life balance . What's interesting , people really don't have a time management problem .

What they really have is a priority management problem . So , in closing , I'd like to share my final thought of every company's universal philosophy , and here it is . People create the mindset , it shapes behavior , behavior defines culture , and culture determines success .

That is why the primary initiative , the primary goal of every manager is to make their people more valuable .

You're busy out there moving growth solutions forward , so thank you for taking time out of your day to join the podcast as well . Finally , I want to thank all of you for taking time out of your busy day .

I know that is sometimes really challenging to do , but thank you for plugging into our podcast and from me and the entire chat team , stay safe and well and thanks for all you do .