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It’s time to review the highlights. I’m joined by my co-anchor, Snoop. And what up dogs? Snoop number one has to be getting the new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple Intelligence at T-Mobile. Yeah, you should hustle down a T-Mobile like a dog chasing squirrel, chasing the knife. At the nice analogy, Snoop. On the highlight number two, a T-Mobile family’s can save 20% every month versus the other big guys. Very impressive. Take it away Snoop.
Head to T-Mobile.com’slashswitch. Apple Intelligence coming fall 2024. From the Vox Media podcast network, it’s channels. Peter Kafka. That is me. I’m the chief correspondent at Business Insider where I covered tech and media. Last week I was in LA. It was really nice to meet so many people who listened to the show. Thank you for saying hi. Thank you for listening.
On to today's show where we are talking about the streaming wars. Which are basically over when it comes to first place. That’s Netflix. Full stop at a story. But after that it gets pretty interesting. And one of the reasons that’s interesting is the rise of free ad supported streamers. So today we’re talking about one of them. That’s Toobie. The free service FoxBot in March 2020. Yep. In the pandemic.
And we’re talking to their newest leader. That is Anjali Sud. She’took over toobie just about a year ago. If you are a long time, Mr. You’re remember Anjali Sud from an earlier episode. We’t talked to her all the way back in 2019. When she was running Vimeo. Two very different video services. Two very different approaches.
This is a conversation we’taped live at the Javits Center in New York courtesy of the National Association of Broadcasters. Thank you to NAV for hosting us. And now here’s me and Anjali Sud. Exciting. We’re doing a live broadcasting here. It is very fun to be back on the NAV floor. It’s been a minute.
Anjali, it’s been a minute’s as I’ve seen you. The last time I interviewed you, you were running Vimeo a video service for Barry Diller. Now you’re running Toobie a video service for Rupert Murdoch. I’m going to explain the differences. But first of all, what was the pitch to get you to come to Toobie? And what did you tell Toobie’s bosses, the Murdoch’s, that you wanted to do with the company once you got there?
So I joined Toobie over a year ago and I actually hadn’t really heard of the service before that. And when I learned more about the business, I’d just got really excited about free streaming. And you know, it felt to me as I was looking around at the industry and I’d started my career way back at the old AOL time-owner. So I’d started in media, kind of moved over to tech. And it just became clear to me that we were in a place where streaming was really right for disruption.
You know, I love to be in environments where disruption creates opportunity. And so I’d just got really excited about the idea that long-form, movie and TV viewing could move more towards a true free ad-supported model. Toobie’was already doing it well and I developed the conviction that Toobie’have the ingredients to define the future of entertainment and that sounded really exciting.
We are at the National Association of Broadcasters events. So unless you randomly wanted to do a TV conference, you’d probably know what Toobie’is but just, I’d chance you’d don’t know or don’t know the full scope of the company. So toobie’is the most watched free movie and TV streaming service in the U.S. we have over 80 million monthly active viewers. Anybody can watch Toobie’you’never have to pay anything. And we have the world's largest library in collection of movies and TV shows.
About 2% of the streaming audience, right? About 2% of the streaming audience. And to put you sort of ahead of the maxes and peacocks of the world. That's right. And actually, Peter, if you look on an ad-supported viewing basis, we’d probably number 3 after YouTube and Amazon. So it’s been pretty meaningful momentum, particularly in the last year. We’d almost doubled our share of TV viewing time in the last 18 months.
So I’d don’t want to spend the entire time comparing Toobie’but when you were at Vimeo’which is a really a B2B sort of creator’focus’tools’service’. There was a minute where the folks at IEC said we’re going to go compete with Netflix’we’re going to be in the streaming wars. And they got very close. And then at the very last minute turned around and said, Actually, we’re not. And the reason why is it’coss billions of dollars a year to buy all this content’we’d don’t want to be in that war.
Now you’re in that war. A different strategy but explain how you compete with’because you’re competing with everyone, right? You’re competing with every streamer’including the Netflix’as of the world’that’are spending $17 billion in content’yearly’and then obviously, TikTok’video’games’everything’I’can’spend’time’on’and’everything’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an’an
I completely agree with you, Peter, that the competitive set when you’re in the business of entertainment is literally anything that takes consumers' time and attention and that competitive set has gotten much broader than A-vot or S-vot or streaming or cable and it is social, it is gaming, it is all these things
At the same time I look at it as my addressable market is also bigger and the way that I can get attention and earn audience's time I think there's more opportunity now than ever if you have a free model for consumers So the difference in when I remember looking at Vimeo we were looking at a subscription service and I think this is when the model was Netflix, no ads, people who were going to get into that world were doing no ads at a discount
It's not that, it's more similar in many ways to TikTok or Instagram and that there's no very low switching costs for the consumer and all you are thinking about is every single time you have to earn their engagement And I think why that is an important difference is the way we think about investing, in content, in user experience, in marketing, all has to work that way
And it's not that it's an easier model but I think the tailwinds are in our favor because I think consumers, especially younger audiences, do not want to pay for content especially when they can otherwise be entertained on TikTok And I think what we have proven is that if we have a large enough library we obsess and prioritize that viewer discovery and experience We can actually earn audience time and then there's a flywheel
The more our author larger audience gets, the more signals we have, the better our content investment goes And everything that I mentioned around TV scale, it has happened at a fraction of the cost of many of these other streamers And just dive into it for a second, how are you licensing that stuff? Is this your part of FOX? So you get FOX's library for free, I doubt it Minimum is a guy being an arm's length thing
So how are you assembling content? How are you thinking about building a giant library? What sort of stuff are you not pursuing that maybe you would have a couple of years ago? So to be spent over a decade building this library and building a very vast network of content partners We do not rely on FOX for our content, we can carry some of their content But the vast majority of the library is coming from us doing everything from studio deals
Where we'll license, acquire content to working with independent distributors all around the country And in many cases also going into certain communities that aren't generally represented in Hollywood And finding aspiring filmmakers at homegrown talent and stories and giving them a platform
And what is so interesting about Toobie, it's so different from traditional television is In a traditional television, if it's 8 p.m. on a Friday, somebody is programming for one audience It's very monolithic What Toobie is almost the opposite, we help stories find their audience because we have this huge long tail And audiences have diverse tastes, so that's the strategy And just to give you a little bit more of a sense, if you looked at the library from a percentage basis
You would see, you know, it's long tail, if you looked at viewership, you'd see it's very distributed So it's not a hit driven business I was texting you this weekend because I was watching a fairly obscure 1979 Bob Fossie movie Which used to not be able to watch anywhere, you couldn't even get it on a DVD and you guys now have it All that, Jeff, it might be surprised to know Peter, that does not drive the majority of our B.O.A.
Not sure And then we do original And what's interesting is Toobie originals look different than, you know, maybe some of the other originals you might hear about But we have produced over 300 originals One in four, nearly one in four Toobie viewers watches an original And, you know, but they don't look like Game of Thrones
Right? These are often movies that we're producing out of fraction of the budget But it's because we deeply understand and listen to our viewers and we know what they want, we know how to get Why make an original at all, right?
In the S-Pod world, you make these initially, you would make these big tent pole shows to get attention from the press attention from the media Drive subscriptions, sort of changes over time I can't tell you a single Toobie original I doubt most of the audience here can, what is the point of making that stuff instead of buying from the giant catalogs that are out there Our philosophy is that we actually don't want to produce originals unless we have to So I'll give you a very specific example
If you look at the last and illuminate and variety have like a top 10 movie streaming chart And if you look at the last quarter, a Toobie movie, original movie, has been on that chart four times You may not have heard of the assistant to, you know, it's bloodline killer, it's titles you might not have heard of But what we're seeing is we'll see a fandom on Toobie We can pick up that that fandom wants to see more and more of this kind of content
And what will amaze you is in some cases we aren't able to acquire or license That's just like the old Netflix playbook when they got into originals Well we've got data, we know that people like this kind of British spy thriller They like, we don't say it anymore, but they like Kevin Spacey
We're going to make a show with Kevin Spacey and politics And then he's sort of backed off saying that the algorithm was driving all this stuff But you're saying you are indeed using data to not just program but to build programming Yeah, it's more, I think, the way we see it is
There are fandoms and communities that want to go deep down rabbit holes of storytelling That the traditional Hollywood ecosystem is not designed to create a lot of rich storytelling for them And what we honestly hear, one of the things obviously when I joined
I spent a lot of time trying to understand like what is working with Toobie And the number one thing we hear from our fans is that they feel seen In the content that they can find on Toobie We write back with Anjali Seud from Toobie but first a word from a sponsor Your business deploys AI pilots everywhere But are they going anywhere? Or are they stuck in silos?
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One thing I've always been interested about to be, and this existed before you got there, is You clearly are catering in part to a black audience You seem to over index there You can tell just by going to the home screen If you boot up the app for the first time, you'll just see stuff as clearly aimed At a black audience How do that start and why you guys continuing to pitch to that audience? What's the upside?
So everything starts from a commitment to listening to what our viewers want and we give them more of it And again, that's because of the nature of our business We have to earn that engagement every day So all we do is listen and respond and give you more of what you want
And it was never an intentional strategy to go after a demo Or this age group or this audience and it still isn't We want to be very broad But when we see signals that there's interest That's how we grow And you're right that I think black entertainment has been one of our most popular fandoms
And we do over index and growth with younger multicultural audiences But we also see the same thing with horror and thriller And we're starting to see the same thing with LGBTQIA audiences So our view is that that's not about an audience It's just the practice of learning and listening
And putting the viewer first and back at the center In terms of marketing, do you want to be known as, hey, this is a place where we have stuff that caters to a black audience Or stuff that caters to thrillers or LGBTQ Or do you want a sort of generic, we have lots of things I think we want both
We want to be to be synonymous with free, frictionless entertainment that makes TV fun again And that value proposition is what's working and it applies to everybody At the same time, we want every single viewer to feel seen on to be
We want people to feel that we as a brand understand that tastes our multidimensional That they change, that culture is evolving and that we can respond to that And I think I will say the more that I see how younger audiences in particular What they want and what they're interested in The more conviction we feel that this is a winning proposition You're a division of a division of Fox or a unit within a division of Fox What's the relationship? What does Fox want out of you?
Do they want a place where they can drive more audience for their traditional linear stuff? I can see the massager on to be, do they want just more inventory that they can sell Period, do they want to tell Hollywood? Look, we're still, sorry, Wall Street, we're still in streaming even though we've sold off most of our assets What do they want out of you?
I can't speak for what they want but what I think they want and what I believe I've been into my job is It's to build a number one streamer To build a business that can win in the space And that doesn't require sort of all these synergies and heavy lifts from other parts of the portfolio
I think that what's been really interesting has been almost four years since 2B was acquired And clearly the business has thrived But it operates very much with an entrepreneurial spirit and DNA And I've never seen any instance where we haven't really thought about it as like This is the mission of 2B, how do we make it successful?
I would actually say Peter, I think there's more opportunity that we have not yet tapped To leverage some of the incredible assets that Fox has to build a competitive advantage And I think you're going to see us look to do more of that
That's part of my job is finding ways to do that more in the future Like at the next up front, you know, is 2B going to be sort of front and center like here's your digital buy Here's a way to extend linear And you've been through this now once And you've been an ad buyer in the past, right? As a CMO at Vivio and now you're a seller First of all, just a little start with the Fox part So how are you bundled in with traditional buys?
So we've historically gone to market separately This past up front, I think we really made a concerted effort to also offer advertisers the ability to buy across Fox And what I'll say is I think it was very successful as an early effort And I think you'll see, look to see us do more of that
But generally our approach to monetization is we just want advertisers to access 2B inventory However they want, they want to go direct to 2B great They want to have a one-fox package of great Like we're pretty agnostic I will say is, you know, this was an up front that you had Amazon entering
It was very competitive That flex showed up Yeah, Netflix Disney, it was a very competitive marketplace We had the strongest up front we've had Surpassor expectations, accelerated double-digit growth It was a very positive validation that advertisers, when they know about 2B
And they understand that they can, you know, the thing that resonated the most was incremental reach at scale at a good ROI So the thing that we really emphasized this time was that over 65% of 2B's audience are cord cutters and numbers So if you tell a brand, you know, who's worried about 2B
We can reach the people you can't reach on 2B We can reach those people and we can reach what everyone says Yes, but if you actually look at the sort of true incrementality If everybody has the same content and they're marketing in the same way Harder to have truly incremental audience, 2B's model is quite different So in some ways it seems like you benefit from sort of having an almost like distance from Fox I mean the truth is that Fox has been extremely helpful in a variety of ways
And I will say you asked me earlier what's some content that we're not investing in
Premium live sports rights? Great example of content that 2B is not going to invest in those economics do not work on a free ad-supported model But what you are going to see us do more and more is how can we partner thoughtfully with Fox Sports Who has one of the most iconic set of rights in sports in the world And I'll give you an example yesterday we announced a talk show on 2B with Deon Sanders And that's more around culture and the entertainment around sports
You're going to see for the Super Bowl 2B is going to do like a pregame purple carpet That's going to be more about the fashion and the celebrity a lore of sports And that's what I would think you would get out of the right is reach distribution, marketing partnerships
Yeah and I think I think we're just getting started there So I would say for me there's still a lot of potential that has not yet been tapped in leveraging the power of those apps What's it been like for you to switch into an ad-supported business to be an ad-seller What did you think you knew going into it and you said oh actually it doesn't work like that at all So many things so it's funny because I spent almost a decade in a company that was very committed to being ad-free
And actually many of the reasons filmmakers used Vibio was because we didn't put ads on your videos And when I came to 2B I was very interested in whether I would feel any sort of friction or dissonance And I think what has surprised me with 2B is that 2B is so viewer-centric and consumer first
In everything it does I credit Farhad the founder with that It really amazes me and I think it's the secret sauce that enables its success So I've been in some ways really pleased to see that that ethos exists in an ad-supported environment The thing that surprised me the most is more on the marketing and brand side I mean the reality is that even though eyeballs have been shifting to streaming most ad dollars still haven't really moved
It's sort of the story of digital and general right? The eyeballs go way before the ad dollars Wait, way before and I think I just as I've gotten into the up-fronts and the ad buying community and understood I think everyone I talked every CMO I talked to they were clear on what they need and what the problems are But I haven't really seen behavior fundamentally shift in how agencies and marketers yet buy
And I think that shift is still to come and I would even say there's a lot of talk about Amazon being a competitive force I'm somewhat optimistic that Amazon can help almost be a catalyst for helping move some of more of those entertainment ad dollars Because I think you kind of need a catalyst sometimes in markets like this How do you think the consumer thinks about ads right?
And for a while there was this sense that the future of television was not going to have ads Because why would you want them and you could opt out or maybe there'd be tears and there'd be...
And there's still there are tears right? There'd be anyone who could afford to not watch ads doesn't and then you've got to pile of people who don't have the ability to escape ads That doesn't seem like a great environment for advertisers What do you think it actually looks like right now for one of your cordon ever, someone who's grown up not paying for cable TV has been exposed to ad free Netflix and ad free HBO and but also ads on YouTube?
I think young people and even across all generations are perfectly happy to watch ads if they don't have to pay and if the experience is delightful And I do not think that the current environment of tears where consumers are being asked to pay and then to watch ads, that is different
But true free ad supported viewing, I think you're going to see more and more audiences are totally fine with it and it makes sense because they're used to it on social media They're spending billions and billions of views are happening on social media with that exact value exchange
They understand the value exchange and as long as you earn their trust with a good experience and good content, they will reward you with their time Where are you acquiring new users from an Apple App Store, from a Roku to the home screen, what's what's driving growth for you?
So most of our growth comes on connected TV, CTV and there we have distribution deals with really across over 30 devices so very very ubiquitous Basically with the way we think about it is like anywhere where someone has a TV, we want to make sure that 2B is an app that you can easily access
And then we work very diligently and I would say strategically with each of the distribution platforms, we actually have teams that will go in and work with those, each of those platforms are all very different, very different, surprisingly
And we'll help optimize the experience, we'll help with content discovery and what we find is that, and by the way some of those platforms have their own streaming They want to ask you to do that I'm sure you're interested in and what we find is just our library being as vast as it is
It gives us tremendous opportunity to be discoverable when people are searching and interested in content, whether that's on Google or on the device And then the last way that people discover us, the majority of our traffic is organic and it comes through the brand and it comes from It's the brand more than someone looking for a specific show or kind of programming It's both, but I would say both are pretty strong and important parts
So it's really both and I think what you're going to probably see from 2B is we think we can continue to scale our audience along both of those vectors More and more you'll see us also lean into our brand because we want to control our destiny and we want to make sure that people know that what 2B is and what it stands for
So controlling your destiny sort of bumps right up against the fact that you need all these platforms to distribute you, market you And in some cases like we've been talking about it specifically Roku but others, they're competing with you I think Roku is sort of neck and neck with you and that Nielsen gauge So how do you think about that? How might that relationship change in the future?
I think we're very focused on being ubiquitous By that and me, I mean, again, start with the viewer Viewers want to be able to access an experience that they trust and content across devices Which ever screened they're on, whether they switched TVs, it doesn't matter, we need to be everywhere And we have believed that that is a winning value proposition that will kind of trump any kind of distribution boats that others may have So that's sort of, I think, very core to what we have seen
And again, it's working, you know, we have been competing with all of these device partners while partnering with them for over 10 years A great example is Amazon, you know, I think we were the first partner on the first Amazon Fire TV 10 years ago
And they have freebie and we've been operating in that environment for a long time And I think we have a regional content, we have unique content, we have scale, and we just believe if we obsess over that experience It's actually, you can operate in an environment like that for a very long time When you're living in that world, what's more important to you? Sort of the distribution terms or how they're viewing you as a competitor, they're sort of distinct things, right?
For us, it's more about, it really is more about just making sure that we have access And the ability to optimize the content discovery Because I'm assuming there's some point in which they would say, well, we want X from you and you'd say, that's literally a deal breaker, right?
Or are you not big enough yet where you can do that? I'm thinking of Netflix, say, we don't want to work with the Apple App Store rules We're just, you cannot buy Netflix via the iPhone We'll live with that, we're big enough now that we can do that
I think from the perspective of the symbiotic relationship, I would say there's enough leverage that, and sort of, we are a big enough platform or partner for a lot of the platforms But I would also say we generally very much approach things as win-win with our partners and that has been working We are not in contentious relationship discussions with any of our partners It has been very productive and I'll give you a very concrete example
We even, like, the way we think about win-win with our partners, with Amazon's a good example, our team does a ton of A, B testing and optimizing all the time We actually worked with Amazon to improve their live tab experience for everyone And we're betting that because we put the viewer first and because we will naturally be kind of elevated through that experience But we have to do that, that's our job, not theirs
And what we find is when we take that approach in this market, it's very natural and people lean in and we've been able to grow as the market growth, it's a win-win We right back with Anjali Seud from Toobie, but first a word from a sponsor Kamba presents a work-love story like no other
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This week on Prof.G. Markets, we speak with Alice Hahn, China economist and director at GreenManto We discuss the impacts of China's stimulus plan, the threat of a war with Taiwan, and the likelihood that China and the US will fix their relationship You look at Middle America, it's been carved out, jobs that effectively gone towards China and other cheaper markets around the world And you were left with industries that have been hollowed out, you only need to look at Detroit to see that
And so you've got this political backlash that has been aimed fully in squarely out China And it's a backlash that is politically and economically motivated You can find that conversation and many others exclusively on the Prof.G. Markets podcast No LV election is nigh It sure is, can you name all the swing states? Oh, Michigan, Wisconsin, Nevada, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Georgia, and is it Virginia?
It is not, it's North Carolina, but you got the others I mean, I think it's arguable, let's just say I'm kind of right, let's give you partial credit Partial credit it is, and we are doing episodes about all seven of the real swing states Oh, it sounds like I should listen, what are we doing, my history lessons?
No, the big issues, abortion, the economy, election security, all of it Oh, okay, so you're saying if you listen to today's explains seven episodes on the seven swing states between now and the election You are going to be ready for whatever comes on November 5th There you go Today explained, wherever you listen, we drop in the afternoons Monday to Friday And we're back They don't disclose financials for you guys, so I need to ask you, but can you be a ballpark of revenue?
I want to say 800 million, are we renearer? We don't disclose it, but I'll say if you check research analyst or equity research analyst reports They do have plenty of estimates on our numbers And you said in the past you're not profitable, but you could be, is that still sort of status quo?
Profitability for us is something we're very committed to, I think for us it's a choice And that we're making the decisions to invest, we haven't spent billions on content And we feel like we're well positioned to be able to become profitable not through cost cutting
But through growing efficiently and morally So if you're not spending billions on content, you're not profitable, my assumption is really expensive marketing Or spending a lot of money on marketing, is that where is your marketing budget bigger than your programming budget?
Not at all, nor should it have her be in a business like this No, I think in Chubi's case it's more that we've built up the audience clearly And it's more about unlocking advertiser awareness and education So that our monetization is able to meet that audience and that's really the way you'll get to profitability from the investments that we've made And I think that this past upfront in some of the things we're seeing on the ad side
To me I'm quite optimistic that we just have advertisers once they understand to be value prop and what they can reach We'll be able to attract a greater share of their wallet I want to circle back to where we started this idea of competition and that you're not just competing with Netflix and Amazon But everything with a screen, you're reaching cord never's, people who have never paid for a cable TV
How do you get them to watch something on connected TV instead of scrolling through this thing playing Fortnite? Do you think they distinguish between sort of how they're using their screen timers? It's at all just one set of bits and bytes and was zeros and ones I think there will always be regardless of which generation a desire to get lost in compelling immersive long form storytelling That's always going to have a really important place in entertainment
What the difference that I do expect is that when you are engaged in social media You're literally watching culture as it's happening And if we are putting out movies and TV shows that reflect culture but there's a two-year lag That's where the dissonance becomes a problem
So I think what you're going to see is more the way that we become important part is that we just have to have a pulse on what viewers care about right now And we have to be able to bubble up the stories that are interested But you want to be long from all here anecdotally for nephews and stuff
I literally can't watch movies, they make me uncomfortable, they go on for so long And they will spend hours and hours scrolling through reels or TikTok that they're fine with But the idea of watching something for 90 minutes they think is just this giant time commitment Do you see that from your audience?
We don't and actually what we see as I mentioned are growth over indexes on younger viewers But we can see obviously the things that they're interested in There's so many trends here, I'll give you an example, we talk a lot about nostalgia Oh everyone's watching suits or everyone's watching these old shows We call it new nostalgia at 2B Because for a lot of these young folks it's the first time that they've engaged in that content and they love it
Another interesting thing, you know, kids' content animated stuff does great among younger audiences I mean more about like Gen Z audiences, so I think the thing we see is that younger audiences are far more multi-dimensional You cannot treat them as an age group or a gender or a demo
You have to understand their tastes are evolving at the speed of TikTok And we have to just find a way to give them long form storytelling that matches them This interactivity, interesting to you, there's something Netflix flagged early on They were trying to choose your own adventure shows and now they're spending quite a bit of money on a game strategy that I'm still not convinced about Do you think that you can become an interactive or gaming part of the world? Does that make sense?
I think if we saw enough signals that that was the place to go, we would right now, we don't And actually what we're spending our time on is we just launched the first fan-fueled studio in streaming in April It's called Stubios and what it's designed to do is allow anyone to pitch an idea to be greenlit by 2B and distributed on 2B based on fan feedback That's the kind of thing that we're seeing in Leeds They're not going to make the show, they're going to say I want to show with this thing
Oh, they are going to make the show, we are actually not only going to help them by funding it But we're also going to, we're working with Esa Rae and her company to help mentor them and help them actually be successful And then we will distribute it on 2B and we'll learn
We'll learn about whether that's a model that can work So I think what I'm more interested in is what are the scalable and efficient ways to bring in unique stories from unique storytellers And it's got to be different from the sort of big budget You know, and at a price And the app for me has not been done yet, no one has cracked that So I want to say, well that's YouTube, right? That's creator-generated stuff, right?
And they split the revenue and that seems to work pretty well for YouTube They've done that for short form and UGC, I'm talking about movies and TV shows As far as I can see, no one's really cracked that code I think your old boss Barry Dillard would say they're just dark that many people who can make good television and movies Like the internet expanded the university people could do that from a thousand to ten thousand Whatever the number is, but it's not infinite, it's pretty fine
I would respectfully disagree based on the signals that we've been But I'll tell you, it is surprising What we're seeing at 2B, and I've only discovered this last year What we're seeing is that the definitions of quality, premium, content, prestige, content they're evolving
I'll give you a great example, I was shocked to see this, but on 2B we have dozens of movies that have been produced in places like Detroit and Austin by aspiring filmmakers on a home-grown budget that have gotten millions and millions of views on 2B with not a dime of marketing being spent And I'm seeing it happen and it's happening more and more Is there a thread that connects those things? Is there some specific audience or idea that they're appealing to?
It's usually stories and content that are underrepresented in Hollywood Because again, like the whole of Hollywood system is very, very specific in programming It's a monoculture and I think we're breaking that And we'll see, I don't pretend to have the answer to all of this But I'm following the signals of what's working on 2B very organically And for me, we're putting our bets more in that type of studios realm versus necessarily new format and going into short form
Angelie Sud, great to reconnect with you. Thanks for your time. Thanks to you guys. Thanks to Angelie Sud, thank you to the NAB New York show for hosting us Thanks to Gilawny Carter who produces and edits this show Thanks to our advertisers for advertising So you can listen to this show for free And thanks to you guys for listening. We'll see you next week