¶ Intro / Opening
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Cheating on your partner.
and the guilt.
what was happening hit me just like a tidal wave.
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And why does it make a
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That's this week.
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¶ Introduction to Dhar Mann's Empire
From the Vox Media Podcast Network, this is Channels with Peter Kafka. That is me. I'm also Chief Correspondent at Business Insider. I've been talking to a lot of bosses on this show last few weeks. Before that, a lot of creators. Today we are doing both. Darman started making YouTube videos in 2018 and today he's running an empire that spans multiple platforms, generating 1.7 billion views a month.
If you are asking who is Dharman and is that really his name, that likely means you don't spend much time with ten-year-olds, because Dharman's videos are very big with that demo. Unlike other video stars, kids love, Darman isn't doing stunts or pranks. Actually he's really not appearing in his shows at all. These are narratives with a positive moral lesson. If you're very old, you might think of them as after school specials for the internet era.
M has built an assembly line that can make these things in days, and he says he can now make a 22-minute show, what we used to call a sitcom, for$50,000 a pop. I don't know if that model is gonna work for everyone, but it definitely works for him. Next up, trying to extend that model for non-Darman branded projects like a bunch of microdramas he's making for Fox.
Which reminds me that we have to talk about microdramas on this show sooner or later. But not today. For now, here's me talking to Darman. I'm here with Darman um who is a person I think if you have a I don't know, Dar, what would you say? An eight year old son, ten year old son? Uh you've been very exposed to? Um and maybe if you don't have someone in that demographic you may not have heard about, but you're a giant. Tell us who you
¶ The Accidental Storyteller's Journey
Your thank you. Um, I am a content creator. I run one of the largest uh digital studios in the world. Um, I started off not with the intention of trying to create a company uh or build a studio. I was really just starting off with a mission to try to help people that were going through some kind of tough time in their life. And so I was able to achieve that mission by basically telling my personal story of my struggles.
and how I was able to overcome them. Uh, I eventually built a community around people that were interested in also trying to figure out how to get over tough times that they were going through. Um, and you know, I sort of ended up as a scripted storyteller by accident, just by ask asking friends and family members to be in videos while I shot with an iPhone and I would write little scripts on napkins. uh because I had no film making background. Everything just began in my small studio apartment.
Uh and now fast forward to today, uh, and we, you know, put out about five hours of premium scripted content every single week. Uh we have about a hundred and twenty five thousand square foot studio in Burbank with 65 plus sets. And we've built an infrastructure that supports continuous production with real time feedback and global distribution.
So you are running your own studio with your name on it. It my my perception of it, it is prime maybe today we call them microdramas, because that's a trendy name to call them, but these have been short stories aimed at a at a young audience, again, I'm guessing eight to ten, you tell me
And I think sometimes they're described as sort of like the a modern version of the after school special. I think that's usually meant in a derogatory way, but these are These are dramas that are easy for young people to understand, that have some kind of moral lesson that entertains them and You crank these things out. You said five hours a week. Um, they're episodic. Um the you're not the star of them, correct?
Correct. I'm behind the scenes. Um, so I started off as writing and producing. Um, and now more so I'm show running um and just trying to figure out, you know, how to continue scaling the studio.
¶ Positive Content and Audience Trust
Uh just for clarification, although we do have a sizable seven to fourteen year old audience, we actually have a very diverse multi-generational and multicultural audience. It just depends on the platform. So we're one of the most scaled creators across all platforms. We average, you know, about 1.7 billion views a month, long form. So as you can imagine, we cater to a lot of different types of communities.
Um and we do actually have a pretty strong, strong adult demo as well, depending on the platform.
How do you feel about that idea of of of your work being described as after school specials and sort of aimed at a younger audience? I could imagine some people bristling at that, other people saying, That's great. I I would love to be that big and that popular and have a brand that means something.
You know, as a father myself, I think I'm so proud to be able to put out content that inspires young people. Um, you know, I meet so many parents that come up to me and they say, Dark. My child often doesn't listen to the lessons that I try to teach them, but surprisingly, they'll sit through a Dharman video and somehow they learn the lessons through those videos.
And so now watching videos together has become a dinner time tradition for us. And now I'm actually able to bond with my teenager in a way that I was never able to before. Um so it actually makes me really proud uh to know that the videos are resonating and especially that positive content is winning. Because as you can imagine in the world that we live in, um, you know, there's just a plethora of negative content. And when I was starting
People tend to respond to a lot of negative impulse. I mean people click on things they like, but they love clicking on things they hate.
As well. One of my favorite things is when a parent tells me, you know, Dar, I worry so much about what my child watches, but when they watch Darman, that's the one time I say, Can you can go ahead and watch, you know, I don't need to oversee what you're watching.
It's similar to when a parent, you know, sends their kid to go watch a Disney movie. You can know that you're gonna expect certain brand safety guardrails and positivity that's gonna be a good influence on your child instead of negative.
¶ Moral-Driven Digital Storytelling
And how do you how do you describe the the what you make? If you if if someone has never heard of you and they say what is a Dharman video and you just want to explain it in plain English?
I'm a storyteller, so I'll give you a very quick story. Um, you know, I used to feed the f feed homeless people when I lived in downtown LA every Tuesday night with my wife and one night when I was out Um, I saw this homeless person who had his eyes closed and I wasn't sure, you know, if he was sleeping, if he was awake. I decided to put a meal in front of him and then I walked away and a business person in a suit comes up to me and says,
Hey, look around. Look at how many homeless people are all over this block. Do you know how many homeless people there are in downtown LA or all over the state or all over the country? Do you really think that your work is making any difference? And that hit me and I thought huh maybe this doesn't make any difference. Maybe I should stop.
Hey, why are you walking up to me and asking why I'm giving food to homeless person?
I didn't ask that. And you know, in that moment, that homeless person who I had just put that meal in front of. came up to me and said, Excuse me, sir, I had closed my eyes because I was praying to God that I did not go to bed hungry tonight. And when I opened my eyes, I saw food sitting in front of me. So I just wanted to say thank you from the bottom of my heart. And I looked at the businessman and I said, you know.
It mattered to that person. Right. So with our stories, they start with a moral. They start with some sort of a lesson. Yeah.
You just described what seems to be a very Dharman type story, right? Where like the villain would be the businessman.
It's not always a good thing.
Who gets the come up as but yeah, uh often right you got and you have the sort of in the way you describe these in the thumbnails, it's often, you know, um, girl gets shamed, rich kid learns lesson. There's always kind of like Is that kind of a villain that you kinda wanna see get punched? Metaphorically.
Right. And there's usually a redemption arc as well. Um, and as you can imagine, you know, whereas traditional media, you get a lot a lot more time to engage a viewer because those audience behaviors are a lot different. If someone's going to the movie theaters, you have a lot more time to get them interested in what they're gonna see and hook them um before they decide that they're gonna get up off their seat and walk out of the theater. But on social media
We're constantly at the mercy of just swipe, right? The easier it is on the platform to get to the next video, the faster you have to try to engage the viewer. And so our storytelling is very similar in terms of a traditional drama with a positive moral lesson, but everything is accelerated to work in the digital world where our story structure is slightly different, whereas we don't start with.
inciting action, you know, in inciting incident, rising action, climax. We actually start with the climax and then we go to a turn, um, you know, resolution. And so the story framework is a little bit different. Uh but it's the same principles of stair storytelling as traditional.
¶ Scrappy Beginnings to Viral Success
Yeah, let's talk a bit about the nuts and bolts of of of how you got to this model. Uh I want to talk about the let's stay with the storytelling element. this idea of like, oh, we we've figured out how to compress a story and we're actually lopping off parts that people thought were traditionally important for a narrative and oftentimes are. We're gonna go without those. How long did it take you to get to that style? How many times did you have to sort of refine it and get to that place?
It took me about a hundred videos before I finally got one to go viral. And if I had approached things as traditional filmmakers would, where I was on a budget, I was doing everything, you know, out of my studio apartment. Um, I had, you know, less than a thousand dollars in my bank account when I started. I still remember going to Best Buy and buying a box, a set of lights.
um and my um, you know, webcam and that was half the money in my bank account, right? I started out very scrappy. And so I was a one person team in the beginning that was just talking to camera, trying to tell moral lessons. And if I had approached filmmaking the way that is traditionally done, if I had the knowledge of doing so or if I looked it up, I would have. hired a writer to create a script.
I would have um rented expensive gear, rented expensive locations, casted actors, you know, I would have maxed out every single credit card or line of credit that I could get. I would have spent all my money on one film and then, you know With the likelihood that that one film would not work, which it wouldn't because I had such a learning curve ahead of me, I would have basically been bankrupt.
The only reason that I was able to get to success is because I didn't know what I was doing and I started off as scrappy as possible with me just talking to camera about my own life last year.
When did you start?
Uh I started in twenty eighteen as of uh so it'll be uh six it'll be eight years in nine days.
Two thousand eighteen, it's it's not like YouTube and digital media are a new thing at this point. Was there a model you were using? I wanna replicate so and so's success. I like the way this person makes videos, I wanna be the next so and so.
At the time there were certainly like podcast clips that were going viral on Facebook, you would see people that had different style of almost like poetry to communicate different life lessons. And sometimes you'd see some sort of stock footage that was mixed in, Uh, but you didn't really see you didn't see any sort of full scripted storytelling that existed on digital. Uh so to my knowledge, we were the first we were the first digital um storytelling studio.
Uh, but it happened all by accident. Again, it wasn't like I had a goal and I thought that this was gonna be a way to build a business and make money because I didn't even know that at that time you could actually make money from having viral content.
That wasn't as known back then. People still thought that the only way that influencers and creators got money was through brand partnerships. I didn't know that it could be meaningful in terms of just the AdSense revenue that you get from the platforms.
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¶ Optimized Multi-Platform Content Strategy
And we're back. So I feel like uh uh especially in LA over the years, I've gone into a gazillion different studio spaces that were created by digital upstart. Sometimes it's YouTube, but all the way down to really small operators. And the idea was we're gonna, you know, change the way content is made and we could do it more efficiently and we're gonna own the studio and and we've got a model that works and most of that stuff has not worked over time.
So I'm trying to figure out what makes your version of it sustainable. So maybe you can just walk us through how an individual video gets made. How how long is an individual video?
So we have different divisions within the company now. Um, you know, our we do short form content as, you know, a lot of creators do. And those videos are like the TikTok length videos that you see that are gonna be, you know, 30 to 60 seconds. Our next shortest division is Facebook. We gear everything towards
what platform we're trying to optimize for. So Facebook, we've seen success for videos that are between three to about 12 minutes long, depending on the algorithm changes that are taking place in any given month. Uh but right now that's a sweet spot. For YouTube, um all of our content is about T V length episodes, so that's about twenty-two minutes. Um and then you know in our partner.
That's yeah. Yeah. And that's the stuff I've been mostly exposed to. Is the idea that that you're making one piece of content and then slicing it different into different Shapes for different platforms.
It that is true. Um, but we typically have a platform in mind that the content is being created for first. But we're very fortunate in the fact that we are universal storytellers. you know, the things that we hit on are universal truths, like the kindness you put out into the world always comes back to you, what happens in the dark always comes to light, or
back to my s example earlier, you may not be able to change the world, but you can change the world for one person. These are universal stories and truths. So we're able to succeed cross platform and on a global scale. Um so the same type of stories are actually succeeding all over, whether that's YouTube or Facebook or Snapchat or Spotify. Right.
I just what I was trying to get to was was was are you m do you start from scratch when you make a Snapchat or Facebook video? Uh I'm assuming you're taking the twenty-two minute YouTube video and cutting it to a s a a size that works for Facebook.
The original content we're making is primarily for YouTube and Facebook.
Um and that's because biggest audience and biggest revenue.
Exactly. So our um we have two primary long form divisions. One that focuses for digital. So one that focuses on YouTube first content, which skews to a younger audience, and then one that focuses on Facebook first audience, which skews to an older audience. Uh, but that content is distributed across all platforms. And to your point, we'll take a 22 minute YouTube video and we'll cut it down to seven minutes to make it work for Facebook, or we'll cut it down to one minute clips.
to make it work on TikTok. So we actually have a whole reversioning team. And everything is, you know, it's a quite sophisticated process where everything goes through a rigorous testing process. So we're not just shooting in the dark. Like we'll actually create about 25 different versions of every video. We'll run tests on Facebook to see which version performs better, whether that's
Testing for different hooks or different durations or different pacing. And then based on that testing is the actual content that we'll publish on that platform.
Same as a digital advertiser trying out different fonts and taglines and stock art to see which one gets the best results.
Exactly. And we'll do that for thumbnails as well.
¶ High-Volume, Cost-Effective Production
So walk me through a a twenty two minute video. How long from ideation to the finished edit does that take? How many people touch it? And and what's your budget for a piece like that?
Yeah, great question. Um, so you know, whereas traditional filmmaking can take years to bring up bring about a T V length episode, for us, we're able to iterate within twenty-one days. And so from the very first start of a script, we can go to screen in the matter of three weeks. And that is our longest division. So right now we're able to operate on a seven-day cadence. for our Facebook division. Um, and if for some reason there's some sort of, you know
thing happening within culture or some collaboration opportunity or some brand partnership opportunity, we can actually squeeze and compress those timelines even more. The reason for that is because we have a turnkey studio where every single component that's required for filmmaking isn't how.
And so whether that's ideation or writing or producers or casting or set deck or set building, um, an art team, stunt choreography, studio teachers, you know, directors, shooters, editors, gaffers, you name it. We have everything in-house. And because our team is able to collaborate and it's the same team working together, you know, very often, we're able to really expedite that production process.
Um, so you know, anywhere between seven to twenty-one days per TV length episode, I would say. For our divisions where we are going for longer content or higher quality, such as our partnerships with Samsung or Fox. Uh where we're going into original content for fast channels or vertical drama films, you know, those projects can take about 30 to 45 days, still on a much faster timeline than what you're traditional.
Yeah, I wanna I wanna talk to you about the Samsung and and Fox stuff in a second, but sticking with sort of the core of your business, which I'm assuming is these twenty two minute YouTube videos, um, give me a ballpark of of what an episode costs you to produce.
Yeah. So um just to clarify, uh I would say actually YouTube is now not the core of our business. Um, you know, our business has diversified quite a bit in the past year, especially as we brought on folks from traditional media, um, such as you know, our CEO Sean Atkins, who used to be the president of MTV.
Um, so um, you know, our our business is quite diversified in the sense that, you know, about forty percent of our revenue now comes from social, about twenty percent comes from YouTube. We have an in-house agency, we have a brand partnerships division, we have S Fod, we have FAST. Uh, you know, we have um uh vertical dramas. Um, but yeah, to answer your question, um, you know, it depends on the ambition of the project.
Uh and so for us, it's hard to say exactly what that budget is, but I would say we operate at about one one hundredth the cost of whatever traditional media is.
Yeah, I mean Red, that's what that's where I wanted to get at, right?'Cause we're still in a world where a tr a Fox sitcom, I think their budgets are still in the two million dollar an episode range and they're trying to figure out how to get that down. I mean, are you talking fifty thousand, a hundred thousand?
We can certainly create content content at that budget. Um, it really depends on what the project is. And what excites me about, you know, these different platforms that we're partnering with or us being able to take on brand partnerships. is they're able to uh allow us to have much more ambitious storytelling. Um, so we're able to go with bigger budgets. But to answer your question, um, we can create content, you know, in the fifty thousand dollar range for sure.
For a for a twenty two minute what you think is the sort of equivalent of twenty two minutes of television, you can do it for fifty thousand bucks on YouTube. It serves your audience and they're happy with it. They're not saying, Oh, this seems like a YouTube show. This is just a show they like.
It's certainly possible. And I think the numbers certainly speak for themselves. Um, you know, uh sure, you know, we could invest more in bigger scenes and more actors and bigger production and more expensive gear, but at the end of the day, you know, we still are averaging over what is it? Over forty million daily long form views. And just for perspective, you know, that means we're getting more views than the Game of Thrones finale every single day.
And on a weekly basis, we're getting about two times the Super Bowl audience. So to some degree, you know, the numbers speak for themselves in terms of the audience interest in that content.
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¶ Building a Talent-Independent Brand
And we're back. Talk to me about branding um and and why these things are called Darman uh shows and why you're not in it and and how and how do people How do you think about sort of people knowing what a Dharman video versus clicking on a thumbnail and having no idea that it's a Dharman video and and and if those brands mean different things on different platforms?
Um like do you expect the Samsung audience to know who you are in the way that a YouTube audience know I may not even know who you are, but they know what a Dharman video is.
Great question. So the reason it's called Doorman Studios is because again, I didn't start off with the goal of trying to create a studio or a company. I started off with the goal of just trying to help people. And in the beginning I was just talking to camera as a one person team trying to
And it was a good thing.
It just was me. Uh and at some point as I started receiving income uh from Facebook, I realized that, oh, okay, well I need to have a company because when it would ask you what's your company name, I didn't want it to say Darman. So I was like, Oh well why not just put studios at the end? And I think my logic at that time was Walt Disney put studios at the end of his name. Uh so, you know, I'd I would love to say that I had the foresight that this was gonna become
You know what it is today, but I certainly didn't. Um, and the decision to not have me on camera uh started uh as a simply data analytics decision. Uh so when I would look at the retention graphs, because in my original videos we'd have like a scripted um a scripted show. And then at the end I would pop on and give some sort of a moral lesson. That says, here's what this video is teaching us. And whenever I would see our retention graphs, as soon as I would come on at the end.
As soon as you pop on screen the everyone clicks off.
Ironically, if I'm in the beginning, you know, almost like the wonderful world of Disney where like Walt would start off a show. Yeah. Um we don't see drops in retention if I'm to start. Uh but just because Exactly. That's why. And uh, you know, as I it as I thought about it, I was like, this is actually quite a superpower because while most creators
businesses are talent led or talent based, I should say. Um, ours is actually not dependent on me. So we are Uh the first studio that's really the first creator studio at scale that doesn't have the same level of keynote.
And that's intentional.
And that's intentional. Um, it happened by accident to start with, right? Um, in the sense that um I wasn't trying to get myself off of screen. I was just listening to the audience. And that that listening to the audience has never really stopped. That's always core in our DNA. And that what makes us so different than I think how traditional media operates is we're able to get instant feedback from our audience.
um and iterate around that feedback loop constantly. But as I started seeing what the data was suggesting, and then as I realized that hey, I could be on screen talent and do one film a week. Or I could write and do four films a week, right? Or if I could find writers, then I could probably oversee 12 films a week. And if I could hire showrunners, then I could oversee twenty four productions a week. Right. So as I started thinking on a bigger scale, I just basically started
hiring the necessary people that allowed m allowed storytelling to continue to exist without me. But there's still a certain Dharman ish DNA that's in every one of our stories. Um, you know, just to give you an example, All get tagged in movies or stories on social media where if there's some like have you seen that Selena scene where she goes into a designer store and then she wants to get a nice dress and then the sale
Shaking my head sadly, but no, I do not know what you're talking about.
So uh Selena's one of the you know, biggest pop stars in the world. Uh she walks into this uh fancy store. The salesperson judges her and says, Hey, you're not gonna be able to afford anything because Selena is dressed down. And then as Selena's leaving, now hundreds of fans rush up to her and the salesperson is like, wait a second, who are you?
Right. So the whole point of it is don't judge a book by its cover. So anytime there's any sort of story or video out there that's like that, that's moral-driven.
It's a very dar man story.
And they'll be like, this feels like a dark man story. This feels like a so I would say our brand and DNA is the moral storytelling, but there are certain Sort of brand trademarks that also are easy to identify. So for instance, um, even though I'm not in the shows, the fact that our sets are like if we have influencers come in to use our sets for one of their videos.
All the comments are gonna be like, You're at Dara Man Studios, you're at Dara Man Studios because they recognize our sex. Um also our way of storytelling in terms of our format, you know, follows a certain arc that is also identifiable. our retention, our score, our way of editing, everything our everything is a brand element that our community is so engaged that they're able to identify.
¶ Expanding to New Content and Platforms
And and so that branding is important to you, you think it does move from platform to platform. Cause what I was sort of getting at is you have a huge audience, but there's also a huge audience.
But doesn't know who you are. They're like me five years ago when my kids say they're watching a Dharman video. I'm like, what is that? Is that a person? Is that Um and as you move to more platforms, you do more deals Is your is the hope my brand will move from platform to platform, my fan I have enough fans that they are gonna sort of move around and proselytize on my behalf or
I'm making stuff that I expect people to click on if they've never heard of me and I'm they're coming to me for the ver for the very first time.
I think if you can succeed on digital, that's one of the hardest places to succeed, right? Because there are no gatekeepers. It's a direct relationship with your audience. There's no one within a platform that's going to say, hey, I'm going to push you to the top. of, you know, are most interesting or new and noteworthy, you're really at the mercy of the audience and their interest.
So I would say anyone who can succeed on digital has a much more likelihood of succeeding elsewhere. Second, we're actually fortunate enough to get some early data that indicates that our content is successful in other platforms.
Um, so one could argue, you know, YouTube, TikTok, Facebook, Snapchat, Spotify, all these are different platforms with their own audiences and US versus international. And we've been able to succeed in all of these different platforms and all of these different audiences. Uh but now as we for instance our very first partnership uh to go into the fast channel space was with Samsung. Uh we are the first creator to partner with Samsung to create an original series for them.
It started off with us just having our existing catalog as a 24-7 on Samsung TV Plus, where we reach over 100 million households. Um and you know, just from the early data that we've gotten, it's been a very successful two-way partnership.
That Samsung platform is sneakily giant. Um, does not get talked a lot about in in our uh on shows like this. When I talk to people is they say, No, that's that's a real thing. People are really consuming a lot of stuff.
And I'm getting so many people that now have discovered me through Samsung. And now that we're gonna start our brand new series um that airs next month in June, um, you know, the series is called Unlikely Romances. And so what does a Dharman story have? You know, there's a lot of conflict. There is irony, there's some sort of a twist and there's moral lesson, right?
Unlikely Romances was inspired by my own love story. I'm an Indian Sikh man uh who grew up in a very conservative family and married a uh Hispanic girl that follows a Christian faith. Very different upbringings. and cultures and that was hard for certain people to accept. So the whole idea was love doesn't always follow the rules.
And is that is that branded as a Dharman production? Correct.
So that is very much on the right.
expect that that brand moves from platform to platform.
Exactly. But there are times where, you know, if we want to go beyond, let's say, the moral morality-based storytelling, or with our partnership with Fox, where they want us to produce forty vertical films for them. Um, you know, as anyone who
I promise.
space the microdramas, anyone who knows the space, those are more steamy romances. And so, you know, one of the early indicators again, because we are so audience first driven, we don't, I don't decide that we're gonna go into this opportunity just because it seems interesting. I start with what does our audience wanna see? And so we started polling our audience on Facebook and saying, Are you interested in microdramas?
Um, and we found that over 75% of our audience was already watching Microdamos. And on average, our follower on Facebook was spending$5 a month on that platform. So to me that was an indication that our audience wants us to move into microdramas. And as we had different discussions with all the top micro drama players, some were very much like, no, we have to go into steamy romance. We have to have these very intimate scenes. And that didn't feel like quite a fit for our brand.
But with Fox, we were able to come up with an agreement where some would be steamy romances and those would not be branded DARMAN and others, they'd be more so like PG thirteen, I would say. Um, and those would be branded Dharman. And so it just depends on uh the type of content as to whether the name would be there. But I wouldn't say that we're only limited to morality-based dramas.
Um how I see it is as if we are trying to build the next Disney, we will have our Disney animations, we'll have our Pixar, we'll have our Star Wars, we'll have our Marvels, we'll have different Yeah, exactly.
¶ Agility in a Shifting Media Landscape
Uh last question for you. You are based in LA. Correct. The uh tons of stories and I've done some about just the relentless sort of negative outlook in the traditional Hollywood industry, TV's movie production's way down, production's moving out, people are worried about losing their jobs to AI, that they're training AI. You are here presenting a different story saying, look, I'm I'm I'm growing really fast. I'm making a ton of stuff.
Um, is what you're doing a a realistic sort of option for a meaningful number of people? who grown up learning how to make traditional Hollywood content, making television shows, making movies, or is there some skill set that's particular to you that that isn't available to somebody else?
Absolutely. You know, I would say that Hollywood and traditional media is not disappearing. The line between traditional Hollywood and creators is disappearing. And we found tremendous success when we actually bring those two worlds together. such as before I started hiring folks that came from the traditional world, 95% of our revenue two years ago depended on YouTube and Facebook.
And now between those two platforms combined, less than 40% is dependent on it because we're able to build a studio that thinks even beyond digital. And so I would say there's so many opportunities for people that come from traditional media that have tremendous experience that creators such as myself are looking for.
Um, so you just kind of have to see where the rising opportunities are, whether that's a creator-led studio, whether that's microdom dramas, it's always just shifting from one place to the next. Versus disappearing. And those that are the most agile, those that are willing to learn new skills and consider new opportunities, are the ones that will succeed the most.
Most. Darman? Yeah. What's the best way? So I can say call you Dar, I call you Mr. Man, Dar Man, great to
You can call me Dart. Thanks, Peter. I really appreciate it.
Thanks for your time, Mrs.
Yeah, this is awesome. Thank you.
Thanks again to Dharman for joining us. Thanks to Charlotte Silber for producing and editing.
Thanks.
Thanks to you guys for listening. See you soon.
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