welcome to cfo 4.0 the future of finance the cfo role is changing rapidly moving from cost controller to strategic visionary and with every change comes opportunity we are here to help you take advantage of this transition to win at work Drive your career forwards and lead with confidence.
Join Hannah Munro, Managing Director of ITAS, a financial transformation consultancy, as she interviews key experts to give you real-world advice and guidance on how to transform your processes, people, and data. Welcome to CFO 4.0, The Future of Finance.
Hi, everybody, and welcome to this episode of CFO 4.0. My name is Hannah Munro, your host, and with me today is Jack. So Jack is the founder and president of the CFO Leadership Council.
He's a Forbes contributor and author of The Secrets of Rockstar CFOs, which is based upon conversations with dozens of elite CFOs from Silicon Valley startups to Fortune 50 multinationals. He's also served as a CFO to 26 different companies. So he is a font of all knowledge, as I'm sure you'll find out as we go this conversation.
So welcome, Jack. It's lovely to have you on the podcast.
Hey, thanks for asking me. It's great to be here. I don't think anyone has ever called me a font of knowledge before. Now the pressure's on. I hope I don't disappoint your audience.
Absolutely. Well, you know, we've got high standards, but I'm sure you won't disappoint. So do you want to just tell us a little bit about your journey and how you ended up doing what you're doing at the moment?
Sure. I started out, you know, a relatively conventional path to becoming a CFO. And I studied accounting in undergraduate. And then I worked for, back in my day, it was the big eight accounting firms. It was Pete Mowerick and Mitchell, which your generation knows as KPMG. And yes, that's how old I am, Pete Mowerick and Mitchell. And so I worked for them.
Then I left, actually, I took a job as a controller with one of my clients in the tech industry. I worked there for five years. And then I went back and and got my MBA. And then I came out of the MBA. I got my first job as a CFO at another startup.
And eventually I ended up working at 26 different companies, largely because there's an industry, there's sort of a sub-industry within the tech space that a lot of companies that are small and growing, they need the talents of a CFO, but not a full-time CFO. So often I would work for two or three companies at the same time as a CFO.
So yeah, it sounds like a lot of companies when you say 26, but if you said each one of them is a third, I really probably work with seven or eight different companies as a CFO.
Yeah, I was going to say- 26 is a lot to fit into a lifetime, to be fair.
How old is this guy? Yeah, along the way, I started the CFO Leadership Council just because, you know, I wanted to create a peer network. And so I just started an organization for my peers and I ended up liking doing it. It's been my full-time job now for several years. So it's been a lot of fun. So I've had a fun run.
Awesome. And obviously in your job, you're talking to lots of different CFOs from all different industries. So what are some of the challenges that you're hearing from, you know, those peers and those people in those networks?
Sure. And, you know, the challenges this year have been, you know, unprecedented. CFOs and their teams, you know, it's the greatest challenge of their careers. And, you know, I sort of joke them a little bit, like, you know, if I knew any people who were CFOs during the Spanish flu epidemic, I'd make an introduction to you.
But most of those people have passed on, unfortunately. So we're learning as we go and doing the best we can. But there's not a playbook for running a company during a global economic crisis because people who are working haven't been through anything like this.
You probably remember in the early days, it was simply survive and keep the team sane for a couple of weeks. And we were saying survive and then thrive.
But there's great opportunities out there and history shows us that if nothing else, the companies that adapt and evolve and come up with some great ideas during crises, those are the ones that are going to thrive. If you sort of roll up into the fetal wall position, you're probably gonna stay there forever and your company's not gonna make it.
And if you think you're gonna have the same business model when things return to normal, probably not. You know, right now is the chance to rethink everything and just come out basically almost a rebirth in your company, if that makes sense.
Absolutely. And in terms of that change, that's a massive piece, isn't it, for people to be going through. And from my perspective, and I think yours as well, is that that CFO role is so critical in that transformation. So why do you think the CFO is so critical during the current crisis?
yeah and it's interesting because the cfos of a generation ago of which i am one so i'm not knocking anyone but they wouldn't have been able to handle this as well as the current generation of cfos and the reason is cfos today uh they're strategic thinkers they're great leaders and they work cross-functionally and i would argue with a probable or certain exception of
the ceo and a possible exception of the senior HR people, the CFO job is the most cross-functional. And that's why they're so critical to the success of the company, because they've literally got their fingers in everything. It's product development, sales, and marketing. CFOs are absolutely involved in those roles. And also, fundamentally, this is a financial crisis.
So unless the CEO of the company is a former CFO, you're probably the only financial expert on the team. So you're an invaluable part of the team and the crisis has simply raised the visibility and the recognition of how critical the CFO role is to an organization's ongoing success.
Absolutely. And I think there's certainly from the people that I'm speaking to, there's more of an understanding of the importance of having a strong finance leadership in terms of this crisis. And I think what's really interesting is that it's not necessarily just cost controlling that's critical during this piece.
And I'd be interested to understand what you think are the sort of the aspects of the role and the things that CFOs need to think about during the current times.
Yeah, I mean, you know, cash flow is a big, big thing right now because, you know, a lot of companies are, you know, candidly, a lot of them have lost their customers, right, if you're in the wrong industry.
But I advise people, one of the best things you can do, and again, if you're in a position to do it, this is really a time to flex your muscles because, you know, if you are in a game, say you're in an industry and there are five or six dominant companies in your industry, you know there's a really good chance when things get back to normal only three of
you are going to survive so you know make sure that you're one of those threes you know flex your muscles and to cfo's credit a lot of them are doing exactly that like it would be easy to actually say okay let's slow down on our capital expenditures but that break that bears long-term fruit that would be a huge mistake and most cfos are actually doing the
exact opposite. They're now investing in technologies more than maybe they would have before. You know, they're investing in, say, automation tools because they can bring efficiency and a long-term competitive advantage.
And again, I think the ones that do that, that look beyond the next three months, six months, whatever it might be, and actually look to the long-term, develop the team that they need to survive and invest in the technologies in other areas, I think those are the ones that are going to do their companies the best service.
Yeah, no, I think that's a really good point because there is that fear, isn't there? As soon as something hits, people go, oh, let's just stop as much spending as possible. But actually, like you say, if they can do it well, then actually they're going to give themselves a strategic advantage moving forwards.
And certainly coming out of this crisis, the ability to scale quickly when things, you know, I won't say go back to normal, but actually go back to a more positive shift. you know, being able to grow quickly is going to be, you know, really vital for those, for some of those firms at least.
Yeah, it's not going to be like this forever. You know, I mean, I don't know. At one point I thought we'd sort of start, the return to normalcy would be next spring. Now I'm thinking it's next fall. I only know that whatever prediction I make is likely to be wrong.
At some point, the economy is going to be robust and growing again, and you need to be there. You're in the company, and you need to keep the team together, and you need to keep your customers, your employees, and your stockholders inspired by the potential of the company when things get back to normal, because they will.
And there's going to be, when we come out of the economic slowdown, it's going to be an incredible growth period for a couple of years as we sort of make up for lost time at least that's what history tells us so coming out of recession is always a really strong growth period
and i'd be interesting to see whether and what do you think actually do you think that the the current situation is actually going to change the the role of the cfo or the viewpoint of that cfo
yeah i mean it had been changing anyway But it certainly is raising its visibility. And a lot of CFOs, you know, the jobs I mentioned, it's inherently cross functional.
And but you know, that said, some, sometimes they get a little bit of resistance to being cross functional, you know, and it's only nature, you know, I remember earlier in my career, my first boss, my first job, I was an accountant, not as a CFO. But the marketing people used to call the accounting people bean counters.
I assume, is that a known expression over in the UK? Yep. Yes, it is. Yeah. And, you know, that wasn't really helpful, but they didn't really like us asking questions about marketing investment. But like my boss, who is really an old school guy, he called marketing arts and crafts. And I mean, you know, right to their face, too.
At least they have the courtesy to call us bean counters behind our back. Yeah. He would just say, so what's going on in arts and crafts? He had just utter disdain.
And, you know, I think in this crisis, as marketing people have actually seen what a value-add finance can be and how strategic the right CFO can be, and, you know, sales and other things as well, it's just a great opportunity.
I've had, you know, more than a handful of CFOs have told me the most important thing that they've done during the crisis is simply over-communicate. And there's probably, probably in your own world you've seen it too, but, you know, Out of the executive team, which executive do you think is the most trusted, generally speaking? And it's usually the CFO, right?
It's the CFO and then the CEO. Sales and marketing, it's not like people don't trust them, but he's in marketing, he's spinning things. People don't perceive that CFOs are spinning things.
So if a CFO actually goes with the salesperson to the critical customers and says, this is why you need to stand by us, we're going to emerge from this stronger than ever, it's actually more meaningful coming from the CFO than it is from the VP of sales, largely simply because of title.
So people are recognizing, gee, I need to bring the CFO on my customer calls going forward. He or she's got incredible credibility day one, even though they don't know it. So, you know, that's a powerful weapon, I think.
And absolutely. And do you know what? There's a really interesting concept that, you know, the relationships between the CFO and the rest of the organization, because I was on a call the other day where they were talking about that relationship between the CFO and the rest of the organization and how that has or needs to change or needs to shift.
So have you seen a shift over your time working as a CFO and doing what you're doing now in that relationship between the CFO and other teams within the organization?
Yeah, it's absolutely more cross-functional. And a friend of mine, Judy Romano, she's a long-term member. She launched our Atlanta chapter. And she advises first-time CFOs. And it's like, don't think of yourself as a financial executive. Think of yourself as a cross-functional executive who happens to be a financial expert. And market yourself individually that way.
You're a problem solver, a strategic thinker.
If they think you're a finance and accountant type person, not going to embrace you as being part of the overall strategy so the days of uh i'll make a good reference for you bob cratchit from a christmas carol he was the accountant most most people don't get that right away but like a lot of people you know tend to think of cfos like bob cratchit you know
that all they do is count the numbers and while that's probably an invaluable skill for cfos to have the fact is they're delegating that now they're a critical part of the strategic team so And the other, you know, one thing I mentioned, I don't know if you read my book or not, but, you know, one of the things I mentioned, one of the CFOs I spoke to, she,
early in her career, she actually took on a mentor. She worked at one of the big multinational consumer companies. And she wanted, she was a controller. She wanted to become a CFO. So she took on a mentor, a VP of sales, rather than just a more senior financial executive.
which was pretty savvy, because she thought if she brought a customer-focused approach to financial leadership, that would give her an edge in her career. And she certainly, not appropriately say who, but she's done extraordinarily well throughout her career.
The other thing is she told me, and this year that was probably invaluable, she has made it a point, she's had, I think, three or four CFO jobs now, she actually calls the CFOs at her 10 largest customers. when she gets the job. Not selling, she's just building a relationship with them.
Hey, if there's anything I can do, if things aren't going well, you know, I just want you to know I'm here and, you know, call me directly. And she didn't do it for that reason, but what a great thing that is to have done during the pandemic, right? You know, your customer's still buying, but geez, let me call Bob. You know, I've known Bob for three years.
It's great that they're buying. Bob, what's your liquidity position? You're going to pay for this when the invoice comes due. If not, What can I do to help you? Those sorts of things. So it's an easier conversation when you've known the person before the crisis, I think.
Yeah. And you know what, that's a really interesting point because finance tends to be hidden behind a lot of the rest of the organization. And actually, is there an argument that, you know, cause the only time that customers speak to finance is when they're asking for money. So is there a point? It's true.
And so is, you know, is there a point where actually, you know, when we talk about the changing role of finance and with all the automation that comes around credit control now, you know, you don't chase an email or you don't chase an invoice manually, you pick up the phone and have a conversation or you automate the other elements.
So should that person be more of a front end customer facing person that enjoys speaking to customers before the invoice is due rather than just after? That's something I never thought about.
It's tough when you just call someone and say, Hey, Jerko, you're 15 days late. By the way, let me introduce myself to you.
Yeah, I'm a really nice person, honest.
Yeah, but you owe me money, so I'm going to be a jerk. But I remember in my days as a CFO, my involvement with customers often was fundamentally the deal was done. I'm just negotiating final terms. So is it due in 30 or 45 days? Is it FOB destination or FOB shipping? I don't know if that's even a thing anymore.
but it's just when does title to a physical product take place is what FOBs are concerned. It was things like that. It wasn't really substantive type of things that are involved with the customers. You're often talking to the lawyers or the CFO at the other company, but it wasn't part of any ongoing strategic relationship with the customers.
And now today, the best CFOs are definitely involved with their customers. I did a survey recently through LinkedIn and it was, It was 100 people responded, so it wasn't the most robots. But I asked, how would you describe your relationship with your customers? And it's deeply involved, minimally involved, only involved at the end and not involved at all.
And the top two are the most common answers. So it's definitely an evolution that CFOs are part of the sales process.
That's really interesting. And I guess with that shift in terms of how involved they are, that requires a different set of skills, doesn't it? It's that shift from, like you say, bean counter to strategic visionary and that gravitas.
Yeah, you're right. That's what it's all about. And, you know, the bean counter roles still exist, right? And, you know, one of the most common paths to being a controller is to being a CFO is a controller first. And that's a person, every great CFO I know has a great controller. And it's a critical thing.
In fact, that same woman I mentioned that called the 10 CFOs, she said the reason she's able to do a lot of strategic and leadership things is she's got a great controller behind her.
And if she doesn't, know she'll do what she needs to do to you know make a swap out or whatever she does you know i think the analogy is she she needs someone to make the trains run on time she can't worry about that she's got other things to focus on so
yeah because at the end of the day the the fine the finances have got to be right that's the one thing that can't be wrong in a business is that the finances have to be right but i guess the responsibility for that ultimately sits with the CFO, but they're not the one that's doing that on a day-to-day basis and you need to have your trusted second that can
deliver on that piece that you can go away and do what is the new role of the CFO rather than sort of the general day-to-day accounting.
Yeah, it's a tough one because you're still ultimately, yeah, I mean, in the United States, if you're a public company, you're the one signing the financial statements, right?
Yeah. They're accurate and, you know, you're working with the auditors and if you get it wrong, know that's pretty difficult in fact there was a local company in massachusetts i won't say who but the there was some like very massive financial statements this was several years ago and the guy you know to the point was there was an sec investigation security exchange
commission and like his defense was basically he kind of said he wasn't responsible because he was a strategic cfo and it's Great that he's a strategic CFO, but, you know, that didn't really absorb, you know, what kind of thinking is that, right? I mean, I was a strategic CFO, so I'm not responsible for the numbers. Leave me alone.
You know, that wasn't a very strategic thing for him to have said, even if he deep down, deep down, if he really thinks that, you know, talk to my controller. It's not my problem. You know, maybe the guy thinks that. I don't know. But what a stupid thing to say. But
it's the same with the CEO, because the CEO is still responsible for the success of a business, regardless of whether he keeps, you know, he actually does the numbers. He's still responsible. It's the same with the CFO. You know, he's responsible for choosing the person that's looking after the day-to-day.
Yeah, yeah. You can't say, you know, don't talk to me about it. Talk to that other jerk. It's not really my problem. That's why I hired him to do it. So, you know, it's not really going to please the SEC, I wouldn't say.
No, and I don't think any auditor over here would take that as a good excuse. Yeah,
well, that's kind of how I know about it. I know the auditor and, you know, I'm just thinking there must have been like the lawyers who are representing stockholders that were going to sue the company that were like, okay, I've got my smoking done. Right. The CFO genuinely doesn't believe that he's responsible for this sort of thing. So, you know, what the heck?
That's just nonsense.
But I guess that then if you're going to be able to step away and do that strategic CFO role, you've got to really trust that person that is looking after that day to day. And, you know, have you got any advice for anyone that's looking for that good person, the one they could trust?
Yeah. You know, hire somebody that's good enough to do your job. and somebody who's ambitious, who, you know, wants to be a CFO. And by the way, mentor them and, you know, make them, help them develop on the path from control to CFO. The, you know, the bad news is you're going to lose that person, right?
Because eventually they're going to learn, you know, everything they can learn from you. They're going to grow under you and they're going to be recognized and they're going to get a CFO opportunity of their own.
But the good news is you've got a phenomenal person who's going to be extremely grateful for the opportunity to work for you and very loyal to you for their career. So I would say it is largely the hiring process. Technical skills are great, but look for a person who's ambitious, who wants to grow and then empower them to do so.
Give them challenging work, push them out of their comfort zone.
Now, that's great advice. And I was talking to Sidney on one of the previous episodes, and he said one of the, Sidney Finkelstein, who's professor at Dartmouth-Tuck School of Business, and he was saying
that-
I know, we only researched about it. I
went to Sloan, so Tuck's my
nationality. Oh, is there a bit of rivalry? I
don't know about that. No, not really. Actually, I applied to Tuck and they turned me down.
Oh, that's not good. We can
eliminate this part of the
video. Yeah, absolutely. We'll just cut
this video
out. But yeah, no, he was saying that one of the best things that you can do when you first, you know, you first either go into a role or with your new recruit is actually ask them where they want to be and actually become that person that's going to help leverage their career and drive it forward.
Because then, like you say, you have that loyalty and you have that trust with them.
And then they're more willing to go on your journey with you, you know, through all the challenges that we're, experience at the moment any change actually by tying your success to theirs you're able to to get the best out of them which you know it sounds obvious but that i think is such a good hello i don't know that many people do that or if they don't
they should be to be very fair is there any other tip top tips or thoughts that you have on you know building your team and what what do you think the finance team of the future is going to look like
Yeah, it's going to be in terms of the, you know, building the team. You know, I tell people, you know, look for look for people who are intellectually curious, passionate, that share your work ethic, that, you know, basically want to grow professionally. You know, you look for those professionals.
And someone once told me, you know, don't build the team you need today. You know, look three to five years out and build a team for that company. And because if you're on a growth curve or just your company's evolving for whatever reason, look for the people that have all the qualities that are going to grow in that company. So maybe over hire a little bit.
It's difficult to do. If all you need today is an accounts payable clerk, it's very tempting to just go out and hire an accounts payable clerk, right? to the future a little bit. Maybe you want to hire, you know, somebody that can bring a little bit more to the table rather than that skill set.
So, you know, just think about what the company is going to look like a few years out. And in terms of, you also asked me about, you know, what the role of finance is going to be in the future. I think it'll continue to be, it's gone from being a cost center to a value add. It's going to remain very, very cross-functional. It's going to be very strategic.
It will be on the cutting edge from a technology standpoint. As it turns out, Financial people tend to actually be technical wizards as well, which is why in a lot of companies, chief information officers or directors of IT actually report into CFOs. So I think you're going to see them as innovators, problem solvers, and they're going to remain cross-functional.
And more and more, you're actually going to see more CFOs who are going to get promoted into the CEO role. It used to be a relatively rare occurrence that a CFO would get promoted to the top job. And now it's not the norm, but it's becoming more and more common, particularly during a financial crisis. And the thing is, they're doing great.
They're very, very successful in the role, which sets up other CFOs to take the reins and do really well. And they're like Best Buy, for example. They promoted their CFO. Her first name is Corey. I forget her last name, but she was the CFO and she was promoted to the CEO. Fortune 100 company. There aren't that many companies bigger than Best Buy.
So to think that they went from a CFO to a CEO. And by the way, she's rocking it by all accounts through what's a really challenging time for retail. So, you know, every time you hear a CFO succeeding as a CEO, it just can create more opportunities for CFOs.
Well, interesting enough, Steve Hare, who was CFO of Sage, got promoted internally into that CEO role of the global Sage organisation. And he has actually just been ranked, I think it's number one on Glassdoor in the UK for CFO. So it's a huge achievement. And he's getting some massive kudos for his work and his leadership through the crisis.
So, you know, it's, I be really interested to see you know if it doesn't happen more often um you know particularly obviously given the current situation so this is what is it just the is it the financial background you think that encourages um that promotion during a financial crisis
yeah i mean it used to be and not that long ago either like 10 or 15 years But for the most part, if a CFO is promoted to the top job, it's actually because the company was in a financial crisis and they decided that that was just the skill set that was needed if the company is going to survive.
But now, you know, with CFOs with a broader range of skill sets, with problem solving abilities, it just makes sense to at least consider putting them in the top role. I mean, you know, there's a really good reason to go with a VP of sales because he or she interacts with the customers and knows what their mindset is more than other people.
But it's not the only path to it. And, you know, I'm guessing also like in the case of Best Buy and some others, you know, they're a public company. She was probably extremely credible with Wall Street, as they say. I forget what the equivalent for you is, but, you know, if the Wall Street man was like you. Yeah, there you go.
But yeah, I mean, you know, That's a huge thing, right? Rather than bringing an outsider who, you know, doesn't know the business really well, may or may not be as well respected on Wall Street. You know, why not bring in somebody that's been talking to Wall Street analysts for Best Buy? You know, and I don't know her role beforehand at all. I'm speculating.
But, you know, presumably Wall Street supported the promotion when she was brought in. So, you know, it makes sense to do that.
Absolutely. And I guess because the CFO role is becoming so much more strategic, that actually they're able to make that shift a lot easier.
So, you know, with their past perception of of we keep using this term bean cows we've got to find another one but with that that um that view of the cfo is that person changing then i guess that that is going to open up more opportunities for cfas
absolutely you want another one a guy gave me an analogy he told me accountants were like if business was war accountants were like the guys with the bayonets They'd come up to a body lying on the ground and stab it to make sure the person was really dead. Real flattering,
right? Yeah, yeah. That's a new one. The
Bayonets. Yeah, yes. You know, you don't do any fighting. You just stab the dead bodies to make sure that they're
really dead. Yeah, just clean up after the mess that everybody else makes.
Yeah, exactly. It is kind of because, I mean, it's certainly like in pop culture, whenever there's like a character who's an accountant, They're always portrayed as really kind of nerdy. And like any profession, sure, there are some nerdy accountants and there are nerdy engineers and there are nerdy salespeople too. But yeah, they certainly don't have the best reputation.
Norm from Cheers is probably the best known accountant in American fiction. I don't know if you remember the TV show Cheers. Norm was the guy who was in the bar every day of his life drinking. And by profession, he was an accountant. So that's what they thought of accountants in Boston, I guess.
Yeah, driven to drink, obviously.
Yeah, and I'm not quite that old, but I was an accountant in Boston during the 80s when that show was on. So I knew one or two norms back in my day. say that
so yeah i must admit historically that that is the picture of the of people working in finances that they are number geeks and um you know and i think there are still quite a few number geeks in the uh in the finance team but not necessarily in the cfo role
because yeah
yeah that doesn't it it
it definitely does and yeah by the way there you know i wouldn't call my many friends accountants who are geeks. But just for the record, she said it, not me. But, you know, there are...
Hey, I'm a self-concept and I'm a numbers girl. So, you know, I quite happily hold my hands up and say I'm a
geek. Yeah, I'm a numbers boy myself too. You know, I do, you know, from childhood, just analyzing stats and sports and stuff like that. But, you know, there's absolutely a role for that, you know, and it's a needed part of financial reporting. It just, you know, again, you know, finance, it used to literally be a cost center.
And you know, now it's, you know, there's still cost to it. Not many CFOs are actually, you know, while they're involved in sales, they're not, they don't have a quarter or anything like that. You know, should they? But they're bringing, you know, genuine value beyond just reporting the facts that happened after they happened.
They're now actually making it happen, or at least helping with the path to make it happen. So.
Yeah. And I think that's a lovely, lovely, you know, thing to talk about is that actually finance should be an enabler, not a barrier within the organisation.
And I love that, that concept of finance is helping, you know, other organisations, parts of the organisation achieve rather than say, telling them no, and you can't have that, you know, I think that's, that's an important point. So, so what would you say to, so CFOs going back to our original conversation, topic of CFOs in crisis.
So what would you say are the, you know, top tips for CFOs in this challenging times? What, you know, what do they need to really consider as we go through this COVID situation?
Yeah, I mean, over communicate with everybody that you have to do. And, you know, so, you know, make sure you're talking to your team.
They feel safe because while in a lot of sectors the economy is doing pretty well, know there are people you know still struggling their industries that you know the company may or may not survive and you know that type of thing and just be sensitive to everybody's situation too i mean you're not trying to you know cut into people's personal business but trust your
employees they're going to do the right thing by you and you know they're not going to do it between the nine to five hours of whatever it is that your companies work but you hired a good team presumably Trust them to get their work done and be respectful. You know, I work for a very small company, you know, and every situation is different.
You know, I've got a single mom. I've got, you know, one of my employees takes care of elderly parents. I'm, you know, I've got a lot of people who are parents and suddenly, you know, they're teaching lessons to their kids during the workday.
I myself am the father of two special needs children, so I'm not available between 8 and 9.30 because I'm driving them to school because I don't want them on a bus. You know, your entire team, they have their own unique challenges. Just be respectful of that.
You know, if you hired well over the last several years, you've just got to trust them that they're going to get everything done. And in my case, in the case of just about everybody I talked to, it's been a non-issue. You know, I feel bad. You know, I'm getting emails from my coworkers. I see that, you know, they sent it at 1130 at night.
But you know what? They got the job done and that's what worked for them.
So won't be like this forever so anyway so you know over communicate with the team let them know that they're important and just you know always tell the truth but always project to share a an air of confidence and optimism you know when's this going to end i wish i knew because i'd be a very very wealthy man if i did but it is going to and make the
strategic decisions you got to emerge stronger than ever on the other side of government
Absolutely. And that is an amazing way to finish the podcast. So thank you so much, Jack. That has been really insightful. And I'm sure our listeners have taken a huge amount away from today. And if they want to see your book or download your book or get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to do so?
Sure. If you want to send me an email, it's simply jackatcfolc.com. Happy to send you a PDF of the book for free. If you want to get a printed copy, it's rockstarcfos.com. And I don't control that one. You have to buy it. Or you can get it on
Amazon too, I think. I'm pretty sure.
You think I might know that. I don't know.
You just wrote the thing. You don't have to do anything after that. You're all good. So, you know, thank you so much, Jack. It's been wonderful. And yeah, fabulous to have you on the podcast.
Thanks. I enjoyed
it. Thanks for listening. And I hope you enjoyed this episode. I actually have a favour to ask. Reviews and shares are incredibly important to the success of any podcast. If you could spare a minute to share this episode on your social network or leave us a comment to tell us what you liked, I would really appreciate it.
Feel free to tell me what topics interest you most. I would really love to hear your feedback. Don't forget to check out our latest CFO 4.0 webinar on budgeting and planning in a volatile environment. Click the link in the show notes or visit www.itassolutions.co.uk and click on our events page for more info and great content.
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