1. Delivering a Successful Digital Transformation Programme with Phil Raynor

Join Hannah Monroe , managing director of ITAS , a financial transformation consultancy , as she interviews key experts to give you real world advice and guidance on how to transform your processes , people and data . Welcome to CFO 4.0 , the future of finance .

This session will not only talk about the why , but also identify how you can automate your financial operations and get meaningful data to drive your business forwards . Check out the link in the show notes or visit our events page at wwwitussolutionscouk .

Phil's been working for over 25 years in the digital sector . He's worked for companies such as Chloe , jaguar , land Rover Perfume Shop , karen Millen and Liverpool Football Club , just to name a few . So that's a pretty impressive CV , phil . So how did you end up doing what you're doing now ?

And then I was part of a marketing consultancy that some of the clients , when the web started to take off , started wanting to build websites and it was thrown to me and so it's a sideline . I found it was something I was quite good at in terms of building the websites and project managing and something I actually enjoyed .

So that's how I ended up in that side of things . And then I went to the dark side . So I headed up e-commerce operations for Maplin and then for Austin Reed Left years before they both went under , so it wasn't the result of my being there , but they went for it .

And then I decided to turn poach or is it Goomkeeper , I'm not quite sure after some time and thought you know what ? I'd rather go and consult brands into how to do this rather than stay with one particular brand and do it . And that was a good few years ago now , and so that's where I am .

So at the moment I'm taking six months off to renew all my qualifications because obviously they have a lifespan and then also gain other skills . So I'm also doing change management , qualification software to development and even memory training . I'm doing so .

The trouble is when you're in the muck and bullets of the program management , you just simply don't have time to catch up on qualifications .

But people use them interchangeably and you know you can't get heads up or frustrated because they're not in the business and they only come around on certain times , so therefore they're not going to be familiar with it . But they're totally different .

So ultimately a program is coordinated body of transformation activities and projects , so they're all within one cohesive strategy . So in other words , it's not just lots of disparate projects , it's they're all with one aim to achieve a specific strategic benefit . And so it's kind of like a .

A program organization is a sort of a transient organization that comes together .

You've got a collective of skills , of skill sets and individuals that come together for the aim of the program and obviously , once the program's been delivered they're disbanded and it's more concerned with , like , the overall direction of achieving real strategic change and growth , both mid and long term and the long term benefits .

So the thing , also the major difference between a program and a project is that the , the roadmap , the development map , is likely to be unclear . It's certainly not going to be linear and in many a case it'll only materialize after the first few projects have been delivered . So you deal with a lot of ambiguity as a program manager .

There's an awful lot of unknowns out there , a lot of things that you have to find the answers to that only exist at the present moment in time . So there might be an overarching objective from the business that actually it's almost an endeavor .

They don't know whether that can happen and there's a lot of questions that you need to answer very early on to understand whether that's actually a viable solution in terms of this one .

But actually I guess the question is is what are you going to do after you've just you've put it in ? What is your long-term plan for how you're then going to move that forwards ?

They might need new skills , so therefore there's going to be a reticence there to learn it . There's going to be potentially a fear for their role . It might disappear altogether . So the clarity of communication and the management of stakeholders is absolutely critical from day one .

I think that's where the program comes in , whereas a project is more concerned with a defined scope of work . So you'll have a beginning and end , you'll have a specific timeline , specific costings and it's much shorter than a program , usually in months .

It's measured rather than years , where a program is much longer measured in years , and also it deals with , as I said before , an ambiguity , and therefore it's critically important that you move forward with the entire organization on board . So , in other words , it's about having them on board for what you're trying to achieve , otherwise it's likely to fail .

And also it's not a set and forget , as you rightly pointed out , once the program management team has been disbanded . These changes and don't forget that some changes might not materialize for months afterwards need to be managed from a business operations point of view .

So , therefore , your business change manager needs to be in place to be able to make sure that they're continually embedded in the organization and the training is done , the communications are done , so everything that a program did . It's not a question of saying well , there you go , there's the piece of software , away we go .

It's about how you embed that change , what impacts in terms of the culture , in terms of the work and practices , and does it actually derive the benefits in the medium and long term that you thought it would do ? So it's a much , much broader scope than a project .

So , from an overarching perspective , it's a clear and unambiguous vision or an objective in terms of what you're trying to achieve , and it needs to have top-down sponsorship from senior management and also devolved decision-making .

I think far too often you'll see projects fail due to the fact that management might give lip service to it or they might have an endeavor in terms of . It's something that's quite amorphous and whilst I say it can be ambiguous , start , there needs to be a clarity of vision of where you're going .

So therefore , it could be misinterpreted because senior management of only giving it lip service , it's not taken seriously in the wider organization . So therefore it becomes an uphill battle for the program team to actually engender change . I think an open and blame-free culture is critically important .

Again , too many times you're set up on the wrong path , which is perfectly natural , and there's a reticence to actually put your hand up and say actually , this is probably not the right thing to do .

So if you have an open , blame-free culture , certainly in the early periods you'd expect to embrace failure , because that's the point whilst you're kicking the tyres and you're doing the discovery pieces , it's about refining and no one ever gets it right first time . So that's critically important .

I think , also from senior management point of view , you need a clear understanding of the skills required , the resources , time scales and costs , because we're not talking old-school waterfall projects here . You know where a sequence of tasks is completed to deliver an objective . We're talking , as the Americans say , kind of high curves , wide boulevards .

It's about having that frame with which you sit . So the fact that you can make sure that you have an overarching boundary , shall I say . And then I'll say you know you have births , deaths and taxes .

Well , I'll say programs encountering changes should be added to those lists , because you're never , ever going to have a program that doesn't encounter changes , many , many , many changes in various sides , and that's fine .

You know you set up to be flexible because ultimately you need to have the skill sets and the tools and the authority to adopt so you're not endangering the overall goal .

That's critically important , I think it's you having your eyes on the prize and that's not just about focusing on that , it's also focusing on the threats to that overall objective and making sure you have the contingent plans in place .

So it's really these generic and deliberately generic , I'd say because digital I often say it's just a tool to change and it's about how you manage that change so it gets the success of the program or not .

Where does it go wrong ?

But I think , aside from major , unprecedented external factors , you know , be that legal , be that political , be that a new competitor coming in and say it comes down to planning in its many guises . So that's my dear old father . So you know , major choice , cut once . It's also about realism , I would say . So .

It's the art of the probable rather than the possible . So it's very easy for a client to tell you that they want this , they want that . You know , I want a Ferrari 812 . I'd love one , I just don't have the 450,000 pounds to pay for it . So you've got to be realistic with your expectations from the outset .

I'm often saying to clients you know , I'm not telling you what you want and telling you what you have . So , in other words , within the constrictions of resource , timescale , skill set , whatever that would be , this is what the possible is . I know that's what you would like .

But unless we restart the program , unless there's a huge investment upsurge , it's not going to be possible . So what can we do with what we have ? So it's about managing that gap between the as is and the 2B environments and see what you can achieve . I'd say the third thing is probably clarity , the overall objective .

So if you don't have that from the outset you know where's your North Star ? How do you know if you're on track ? There is a danger in this agile age that people mix up agile with actually just being reactive , and that's not agile in any way , shape or form , that's just winging it , to put it bluntly so .

it's about making sure that you can , at any point in time , audit and assess the health of the program in terms of the overall objective . You cannot lose sight of that . Yes , in terms of how you get there may differ and probably will differ from how you thought would happen , but ultimately that objective needs to remain the North Star .

This session will not only talk about the why , but will also identify how you can automate your financial operations and get meaningful data to drive your business forwards . Check out the link in the show notes or visit our events page at wwwitsolutionscouk .

Perhaps the CEO or the board don't quite have the same expectations that we say . What are your tips for how you actually approach that situation ?

I think if you don't have that , these are where these situations occur , where the communication and education from the senior responsible owner upwards is not working effectively . And this is a game where program management comes in .

It's about educating the senior responsible owner in terms of how they communicate , how they make sure that they escalate up the path , and it's because you have to understand that their day job is not this . Their day job is financial management , the financial health of the company , and therefore they're completely new to this .

So therefore , you really should be almost their conscience , I guess , from the outset . And this is a game where good program management and program direction comes in . It's where , at the very , very start , you need to ensure that there is buying from the absolute , the very top , and if there isn't , then it's about resetting .

So I always say that if it's bad news , it's not like fine wine it doesn't mature with age , it doesn't become finer . It is bad news and you need to communicate it straight away . So I think there's a almost I'd rather ask forgiveness and permission , whereas I don't think that's the case here . You need to have the full backing of the organization .

So this is where communication becomes absolutely critical .

Now , if they are , which they should be part of the overall sponsoring group then they should be having , at the very least , kind of monthly get together in terms of communicating exactly what is going on with the overall project dossiers , the direction of the program , the health of the program , maybe new risks or issues , and so they shouldn't ever be at instance

whereby they are being hoodwinked by something . Now , if they come along and they suddenly say , right , there's been a change in corporate policy , maybe , I don't know , it's been a bad year , so therefore we're going to have to cut back on budgets , or there's a new competitor in all .

Say , for example , if it's a retailer , we've decided to divert the budgets into opening 300 new stores or whatever . That's perfectly natural and that's fine . It all comes down to how you manage that , and I come again back to it's about the art of the probable . So I always say ultimately , project management is about a triangle in terms of quality , cost , time .

You can only do what you can do with those resources . So , therefore , if there is a dissonance between what we think we should be achieving and what they've suddenly decided to do , then it's a question of resetting expectations and boundaries . And I think that's the danger .

That is , people don't like delivering bad news , and I'm quite happy to be belligerent rather than bad cop and just say look , this is how things are . I don't think senior management appreciate being left out of the loop . And again , senior management , they have their own pressures in their own directions , their own strategic inputs that we're not party to .

As I said at the top of the call , it's about having the flexibility to be able to build in contingent plans and change direction if needs be .

At the very start you will have an understanding of what you're trying to achieve , and then it's about understanding the feasibility of it . Then , therefore , there might be two or three different programs scenarios that you might have . Taking that time , slowing down to speed up , as the Americans say at the start , is is is gold .

The trouble is with a lot of these programs it's reactive or , by the time decisions been made to at least start the first phases and release investment for the first phases , that they've already put in place an arbitrary timescale which is just reducing and reducing , and reducing and therefore it's just about getting on and doing it .

It really should be clear in your mind that when these initiatives are required and also , I think again , not being part of the program management culture , when it's not your , your day to days , that there is a , there is a , there is not a desire , there's a tendency to kick the can down the road , I think , when there's other more pressing day to day things .

All the time the time horizon is shortening .

So I'd say , the sooner that you can actually start to put together an actual plan and looking at the due diligence and discovery , the better , because some organizations talk about being pure agile and saying they don't have to do this , but , as I said , agile actually is just another word for for masking the fact that they're just reactive .

So to reiterate that it's don't rush it , it's it's plan properly in terms of what is your overall objective ? Now , in terms of plan , I'm not talking a project plan .

That's obviously going to come later on , but certainly you should have an understanding that your key aim is to be the foremost educational institution online within the next 24 months , and so on and so forth . At least then you have your North Star , and that is the question of how do we go about it and what's the feasibility of that .

Second , one I'd say and I'm repeating myself in it as a broken record is gain . Senior management commitment has to be from the outset . Too many of these things emerge , which is again perfectly fine . Programs do emerge where you'll have several , say , projects that are coming together and diverging converging , should I say into a single aim .

So therefore they would benefit from having an overall program infrastructure around them .

But too often these things emerge and actually never get the senior management commitment that there's an assumption that it will be fine and then the only trouble is , once it gets to the senior management , at best they'll be indifferent , at worst they'll , they'll , they'll just shut it down .

On the other side of senior management management commitment I'd say is don't just pay it lip service . They've got to be seen to be leading from the front .

It's absolutely critical so that the messaging is on point from everybody within the program , everybody to do with that program , to the entire organization , because there's an awful lot of people that will be affected directly or indirectly .

That needs to understand clearly what the objectives are , because in my experience , you'll have certain disenfranchised part of the organization , which is natural if you're dealing with hundreds or even thousands of people . There are going to be people that don't necessarily bind to what you're trying to achieve , particularly if it affects their own area .

So therefore they can make things difficult . The key thing is to have a clarity of purpose and say this is what we're doing . More importantly , this is why we're doing it , so at least they'll have an appreciation of why it's being done . I think on that , it's change management often overlooked . So I've talked about communication .

I talked about stakeholder anxiety means their job might change as a result . I think that anxiety and the hostility and you bring them on board . So through clarity of communication and building up that trust , and it's about firing that message at them all the time in terms of it's for the common good and this is why we're doing it .

This is why we're doing it . That's absolutely critical . And then I'd say , probably embrace failure early on . So to my previous point is , particularly in discovery . The whole point of this is to see whether your initial objectives are achievable , and if the subsequently found to be flawed , then you could say discovery's done its job .

You just reset and you look at alternatives . As Confucius said , when it's obvious the goals cannot be reached , something like don't just the goals , adjust the action steps . And clearly Confucius was one of the first program managers .

So far too often programs are stressful , you're reaching into the unknown , it's ambiguous , you're facing a multitude of problems , but it doesn't mean you can't have an enjoyable environment , because can you imagine , say , for it's a two year program , you're talking what ? 40 hours a week , 10 months a year , two years , two hundred , two hundred .

I think my math is correct on this one , two hundred thousand hours . So you know it should be an enjoyable experience , not done to use in further . You know you need to smile . You need to make sure that people enjoy coming to work . It shouldn't be seen as a threat , it should be seen as a positive .

So I think for me you know what are your sort of suggestions for good communication , both going up and down the train .

So , for example , from a program , you need to make sure the communication between the projects is critically important from their interdependency point of view , the communication between each project and you is critically important .

So , excuse me , it's about devolving a decision making , about setting the tolerance levels as well in terms of the tolerance of risks and changes and issues and when that needs to be communicated upward to you and then maybe up to the sponsoring board or the program board . That's critically important . I'd say also communicating downward .

So if there's a temptation , when there is a changing policy , it's about you just concentrate and isolation how you amend the program , whereas in fact they should go all the way down to the project teams at the coal face .

I think communicating upwards to senior management should be clear and unfettered . As I said before , it's not about trying to couch bad news . It's about giving them , I'd say , one thing giving them the truth and being very , very clear about what this is and what the impact is .

But where possible , it's also providing them with potential solutions based on your experience , because I think senior management dealing with problems all the time . Just giving them an extra problem is not going to help . You need to go there and say this is what we've encountered . These are the potential solutions for your consideration .

Communicating with stakeholders A lot of people talk about stakeholder management . When you look at , say , job briefs and etc . I think stakeholder management is an interesting one . It should really be called stakeholder communication because it's for stakeholders . People often think well , I'll do a program report or a project report on a weekly or monthly basis .

Lots of coloured graphs and pretty pie charts , that's it . But then your stakeholders , particularly senior stakeholders , will think they're being managed . It's not about that . It's a two-way dialogue .

Therefore , you need to be having this dialogue with the stakeholders and making sure that their feedback is coming back and helping shape the program , not just you telling them what the program is doing .

I think also , as I mentioned before , it's communication with the wider stakeholders those that are going to be directly and indirectly affected by the change and making sure that you are constantly communicating , because there is a danger I've experienced this in larger organisations whereby if there's a vacuum in communication , suddenly the grapevine takes over and therefore

rumour supposition suddenly runs wildfire . It's about making sure that you communicate both the good and the bad points of the program so that they engender trust .

It's also about communicating the key messages time and time and time again , never deviating from those messages , because what they're looking to you for , and particularly seeing in management , is leadership and guidance . If you're ambiguous in what you're doing or unsure of what you're doing , then that's magnified further down the chain .

But it's also about continuous communication . It's not just about these monthly documents . It's about having the human touch , so having project seminars , having workshops , having town halls .

It's about getting their point of view , because if they don't feel that they can and this is any level of stake or if they don't feel they can have an active input into what's being achieved , then they'll be disenfranchised and disengaged instantly .

I think that's just the flag to anyone that is taking responsibility for helping to manage a project or a program is just think about your audience . Your CEO doesn't have time to read a 20-page document every month . He just wants the highlights .

But those that are actually actively involved in it , they may value that level of communication and it's how you deliver it , Like you say . I think that's an incredible point around making sure that you have a two-way street and delivering on that change .

This has been a fantastic conversation , to be honest , and I think there's a whole conversation that could come out of this in terms of communication and what it does good look like . Just to sum up , for those that are about to start a program or looking at going through a trip or a project what is your top tips for those that are just about to start ?

What do you say they must do , and they must do nice and quickly .

I think you need to manage upwards and say to them , in terms of expected costs and time scales and resource and skills requirements needed , potential threats and risks to their overall objectives .

It's about making sure that when senior management sign off that initial investment I've never been a big fan of just signing off a huge overall investment because actually things change I'd say the initial investment to get the first phase is done is that they need to be doing that with an absolute open mind , but also with all the facts that they're disposing .

That's absolutely critical . Also , as we've just discussed , it's making sure that the other side , that you have the stakeholders identified and on board as quickly as possible . As you said , different stakeholders have different requirements of you . They have different agendas , different worries .

Ultimately , you need to remember a stakeholder is not just a name on a sheet or plotted on a graph . It's a human being . Therefore , it's critical you get buying from the start .

They need to be able to see that you are a clear communicator , an open communicator , but also and I use this not in the command and control type way , but you are a leader , in other words , that you understand what you're doing , it's in safe hands with you . That's absolutely critical . That's from the outset .

It's making sure that you understand the resources required , at least at an outline level . You get the commitment from the board and this is not lip service . You get at least early communications out to and dialogue with the key stakeholders , because then what you're dealing with here then is everybody's on the same page .

Everybody understands what's trying to be achieved . On the outset you start to build that sort of program management culture . As I said before , it's transient organization , program management . You get a lot of disparate skills that come in . You get a lot of externals , such as myself . You get people seconded onto the program .

Therefore , it's a completely new organization that you will have your own culture within . That it's about how you can quickly meld that with the business at large and making sure that you're all going in the same direction . It's easier to look at it from a point of view of why the projects fail .

I think it is because it's not going to be clearly communicated at the start . I think it's because you're restricted in terms of what the overall scope is , in terms of the amount of resources you have , the skills that you're allowed to employ .

Therefore , a warning flag for me is when you're starting to cut your cloth before the main program is even started , because you don't have to say well , hold on , this needs to be reset , because we already have unrealistic expectations or we simply don't have the resources with which to achieve that .

It is human nature to just say just do it , but that's unfortunately not the case . I always say I don't have a magic wand or a crystal ball . I'm afraid . I have looked on Amazon . They don't exist . So therefore , you have to be realistic from the outset .

I've seen programs not my night and night when the program was already dead in the water even before they started to do any form of development because of a new MD and a new technology that was available , but they still plowed on with it . You should be brave enough to put your hand up and say stop . And stop doesn't necessarily mean throwing everything out .

It might mean just amending the strategy , it might be reformatting what you already have , but ultimately it's being brave enough and also having the support of senior management to be able to do that .

are , and that you have the resources to deliver on that .

Thank you everyone for listening and if you want to , like Phil said , if you want to find out more , send him an email or jump onto his website once it's all up and running . And please do watch out for the next episode of CFO 4.0 . And we'll speak to you soon . Thank you , Thanks for listening and I hope you enjoyed this episode .

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Don't forget to check out our latest CFO 4.0 webinar on budgeting and planning in a volatile environment . Click the link in the show notes or visit wwwitastolutionscouk and click on our events page for more info and great content . And if you want to reach out at any point , tell us what you liked , tell us what we can do better .

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