Kim "Studies Show" Cattrall

Celebrity book Club.

Hi, I'm Kim Katrell and I'm doing a documentary about the sexual lives of Toronto residents. We're going to talk to ten sexually active Greater Toronto residents about what turns them on, what turns them off, and what makes them climax. First up, Davis thirty four.

I like when a woman gets home from work.

Kira twenty nine. This thing happened to me when I was twenty eight, where I only liked guys with broad shoulders. Now I like guys with slender shoulders. I don't know what happened, but it just gets me off. Shira thirty three.

I was with my last boyfriend for seven years when I realized I'd never had an orgasm before. So I went to the Chicago Art Institute and I brought my favorite toy, a candlestick brass rested, and I did everything that you can imagine right there in the impressionist room.

Tanya twenty two. I love early morning sex, especially with a powerful man with an an even bigger espresso machine. Poor Mia shot of Dick.

Cage twenty one. I don't think a big dick really matters that much. I've never gotten complaints about my normal dick. I think other guys dis are totally cool. When I'm at the urinal, I look at them, or I don't look because I don't think it really matters that much. It's just a beautiful object.

Alan. I was with my wife for many years until one day she dressed up as a man. I've never been so hard in my life. Turns out I go both ways. Judy twenty eight. I don't know what to do with balls. Who's that knocking at the door. It's all your friends. You've filthy horse, your husband's gone, and.

You've got books and a bottle of wine to kill. It's Hollywood, it's books, it's gossip.

I'm sure it's memoirs. Celebrity book Club. Read it while it's hot. Celebrity book Club. Tell your secrets. We will talk celebrity books.

No boys are aloud, say it loud and pounds celet book Clubs.

Spuzz me in. I brought the queer vow. Oh hey, best friend, lover, coworker, acquaintance. Strange.

How I am feeling really alive in my body today? You know, my human body, which is one of the most peculiar instruments on this earth, isn't it.

It's so interesting. It's full of nerves, full of hair, full of different sensations. It's been studied, It's been studied since three thousand BC.

Why is sex always ancient? Just always antiquity?

Like sex is always like in Roman times from the bath they would feed on grapes and the phallacies were open and played with.

Let's just get into it. So what did we read this week?

We read it with me Petrel.

Who you may know from Sex and the City as Samantha.

The sexiest cast member.

And has a book and documentary.

Yeah, that are kind of the same exact.

Their companion pieces.

Sold separately at Bs and Nobles and Borders. And her book and documentary, Sexual Intelligence, which is very like two thousand and six six and especially it's a glossy coffee table book that is about.

Desire, desire, human sexuality and history and men and women bodies.

The differences between their bodies and how the glitterist has more nerves than any other part of the body. But the fallas.

Is so interesting, so like half of the movie Slash Book, it is just always going back to ancient Roman, ancient times and ancient people's worshiped.

The fallous but afrodity. And the reason this book came about is because she said, you know, playing Samantha, one of the most famous sexual characters on television, people would see her as the sexpert and come up to her and tell her their randy stories. They're Samantha stories and be like, oh my god, like you must be an expert, a sexpert. Yes, And she was like, I was actually embarrassed to say I'm not Samantha, Like I actually don't have amazing sex every night, and I don't have the

In a note from cam in the beginning of the book, she goes, after the first two seasons sex and the city people began coming up to me wanting to share their own Samantha scenarios. This was flattering, but could sometimes be embarrassing as well. People assume that I, like Samantha, had always enjoyed fabulous sex, when in fact the opposite was true, as is the case.

For many women.

Sexual fulfillment came late with the publication of my first book, Satisfaction, The Art of the Female Orgasm. I wanted to reach out to women and men with the hope that what I had eventually learned could work for them, and finding my own fulfillment. And then she goes, I'm not a sex expert or a therapist. Still the male and the questions continued. It seems there remained so much more to

And is it a gathering of.

Okay, it's so many quotes from experts, and just like studies show, study show, And in her book The History of the Female.

It soys what's love got to do with it? Love, in all its complexity and irrationality, has not always held the value it does today. In the fascinating history Love in the Ancient World, authors Christopher Miles and John Julius Norwich tell us, for the ancients, love did not make you better, It made you worse, like she's always like, Quoting a different book about how the Romans had sex.

Psychology refers to Roy Baumeister suggests that women have more erotic plasticity than men. Their sex trips are shaped more by circumstances and by social and cultural forces. The common suture recommends saffron, musk, and sandalwood as substances whose smell blends with that of the woman and encourage your sexual exectation. Even the Bible contributes the literature on fragrances and desires.

Okay, here's a little witclosure book. Here's a little quiz, and everyone play along. In the Bible book book in the Bible, what does she say are the aphrodisiac sense that a man puts on a bed to lure his woman? Was it what I just said? Is it saffron and musk?

No?

Wait? Is it like camel? It's like mr oh, okay, cinnamon and aloe, which I'm like, hmm, I just like it.

Because cinnamon is so fall and it's so just like mom apple pie.

Well then I made this kind of crazy connection this yes, thank you, thank you, because she says one of the most deronic sens are like pumpkin and spice and cinnamon. And we think, oh Christian girl, autumn, and why are these girls so obsessed with their pumpkin lattes? And it's actually because they're so turned on by it. But society tells us a woman can't say, hey, honey, come home, I'm a horny I'm baking pumpkin bread. She has to say, oh, I love pumpkins because I love Hocus.

It's always comes back to the madonnah or complex. But I think this is actually so interesting because the classic feminine sense are not actually the sense we ironically associate with eroticism and desire.

It's the quote.

Mascot little wood right, and like leather right in tobacco, like alcohol with whiskey. It's like those are like sexier sense, whereas like these traditional feminine ones are like kind of associated with like either purity or matronliness. Yeah right, like this Christianity who like the floralness. Yeah, it's either Christian or it's you've already had kids. And now you smell like a flower. You smell like an old flower. Your vagina is sealed. You are no longer sexual department store.

And I'm so glad we're talking about scent right now because something happened to me so interesting today. I'm wearing your lover's father's shirt right now.

Wow, talk about outles blical, biblical.

And I was on the train week of Cinnamon. I was on the train and I was like, what is that smell? And I. I was looking around at men. I was like, who smells kind of bad but manly on on the train and I was looking around. I was just kind of women with books and I was like not adding up. And then I was in the bathroom. And then I went into the bathroom, I said, the smell is still with me, and I realized it was. And it was this collection of.

Men journey in center of my boyfriend's father, me, my boyfriend.

Yeah, your closet, Landlord Ridgewood all into one when researchers said.

The Smell and Taste Treatment and Research Foundation in Chicago conducted a study on the effects if any of fragrances and sexual assle. They use floral sense and threw in the smell of big Simon buns as a control. As each hoop smelled each testcent, individual blood flow in men's penises was measured using a small blood pressure cuff called a follometer penis. To the research, to surprise, the sticky buns raise their subjects blood flow more than any other scent.

So you see science proofs that is to fall. Yes, because why do we call also fall couffing season?

Oh, because we all put our fallometers on.

As we go to Cinnabon, we're getting our pumpkin is beeping off the chiseling.

Mama VENTI, I'll have a venty and signed me. If you know what I'm saying, you know the book and film, I will say. The only difference is that in the book Kim sorry Kittrell, So it's Katrell Trell, and I've always said.

It is very much spelled like Coatrol. She's in Liverpool, Darling, and she grew up in British Columbia, in a small town on Vancouver Island, which is not Vancouver. It's like this island off the coast. It's like Vancouver is on the mainland, and then this is a large island off the car.

And she doesn't really have like a British accent. She has this kind of Canadians.

Like a sexually international Canadian accent.

It's like a sex accent. It is. First of all, she's also a sex therapist. She was born to write this book.

She's also ben forty one, like since nineteen seventy one, because when you look at her in her like first roles, she's already been this woman who's sexually wise beyond her years.

Right, and being like, well, I like it when.

I think partially because she has that like Cindy Crawford mole that sometimes she's covering up, but sometimes she has I think it's also like.

The haircut, the bangs, her kind of huskier voice in the documentary. And this bisexual person is also quoted in here, so in.

The Bye Girl the documentary who it looks like a Parker Posy character Kissy. I'm talking y two k bisexual Canadian name than Kisty.

So they are all these like men and women who are interviewed in the documentary and.

All and just like the softest like micro silk play.

Microsal microfiber shirts, all have the craziest haircuts, but also just such like barbell piercings in this way. Yeah, Like the guys are very penis piercing.

I'm obsessed with the guy who's just like, if you can get two women in bed with you, they've got to be pretty dumb.

They're like two and in bed. Sure, I'll take it, Okay. They all kind of seem like lesbians, but then there's this one lesbian who's actually.

By Yeah, that was confusing, really, Pierre run with the piercing. She was so butch. I was like, then when she's were talking about men, I was like, mom.

Mus yeah, I was like what and she was like, there's nothing like when a bulge is against fabric. And she was like, I like it big. But then she was like, nothing's better than when like a girl is eating you out with a tongue ring, which is also the most nineties thing. And I remember like when I was first kind of coming into my own sexuality and like hearing that being like, wait, I should get like a tongue rings.

Yeah, I know, tongue ring oral sex. It was so also talked about like dude, have you ever gotten head from a girl with a tongue ring?

Yes? Fucking fucking crazy, Like you don't even know what a blowjob is until you've experienced. First of all, no one has tongue rings anymore. No one.

Everyone has a fucking nose ring. Everyone has the bull piercing laurence.

Is that good for lingis?

Well maybe if your nose is really buried in there.

Well, the nose is always good I think for punde lingus. So you say it acts as a.

Phallus, what if you maybe did like kind of a nasal attachment that was such a like rubbery.

Instead of like let me get my knob, like let me get my strap, it's like let me get my full like ebeny. It's kind of a medal play mask. It's like the big like orse so knowlence costumes question, Stephen, do you dress up in the bedroom? Erotic place is so important? Studies show that in ancient times, I mean, let's go back to the fig leave well.

First of all, my favorite bird of the documentary is at the very beginning, after the intro, which is completely insane, cut to her standing in front of the Toronto skyline and she just goes, let's talk about sex, and you're just like, why Toronto, Why is this the capital of sex?

Why?

There's no explanation because it's being like cities, because there is a travel budget for the She's at some like Scottish like land art that's made in like medieval times.

Has this huge like machiness Pallas.

She goes to Cypress, to Aphrodite's beach, just to walk out of the waves and be like Aphrodite.

The original seductress. For generations we've been influenced. And then it's very like such a like early film collage of just like Hollyberry and Incomes of the Beach and Cyndy Crawford and be like, where would we be without Afrodite.

Without the sirens and water which is so connected to sexuality.

And then she's in the rocks as like a random guy is like.

Giving her an oyster that she's then slurpy because the oyster represents feminism desiacs okay.

And then my other favorite part in her travel and hears a quote of it when she happens upon like a stone carving of a dick, and then she's like, oops, Dallas is recarved into the pavement on street corners, set in bricks on the outside walls of buildings and even outfitted with little bronze bells called ttuliba and dangled over

Is standing next to this like Scottish wind chime that's like a massive metal dick with wings.

It's like a dick whale that is winged and has its own dick, an alerg dick, and is like held by bells.

So she talks about the decline of the fallis es central to western art and how yes, and so in ancient Greece and ancient Rome, the Fallas was like represented like separately, and in Pompeii there's all these large dicks everywhere.

And then she goes hmm hm.

But then, like the Middle Ages and Christianity brought on a lot of repression and the fig leaves and this sort of fear of the disclosure of the phallas making love.

And she's like King Torontola or whatever like brought his daughter, like the King of Naples, Oh yes, and then he covered up all of the.

Art unwittingly brought his daughter along to tour artifacts excavated from sites in Pompey. What he saw shocked and embarrassed him, and he ordered that a room he set aside of the National Archeological Museum of Naples for all offending wall paintings.

And and here we were as pagans, freely making love.

You know, it is true, obviously, it's like we think about depictions of female nudity have been very common throughout art for millennia. But then of course you look back at Manet and Olympia and everyone was the context was always very virginal with the women or it was like godly, it was otherworldly. It was never like a real woman showing her real pussy.

Spread, right, It's always kind of women resting, yes, or women at war.

Yes, or like women posing for the painting in the way we understand she's just doing it. It's like anatomy, but.

They're not like being so like reverse cowgirl like certainly not Statue of David.

And that's why Olympia caused such a hullabloo at the Salon in the eighteen eighties, because she was making eye contact with the viewer and her like attendant was there.

And not just kind of this dazed eye. And then you know, in the documentary, Shelter mentions what the Metropolitan Museum of Art had an exhibit of Lucian Freud and there was warnings, yes, saying content warning, trigger warning, there's nudity, but yeah, there's nudity throughout the met Yes, but he was this modern showing of sexuality.

Because nudity without sex is fine. And I think what's interesting about Hiding the Pallas is it's almost we can desexualize the vagina, but we like can't be sexualize a penis? Now, why is that misogyny?

Misogyny exactly? And this book is also so classic nineties early two thousand and away, where there's an amazing photo of two speakers. One speaker says man, and there's one switch and that's off on and off and on, and then a woman's speaker is like knobs.

Because women are attracted to so many more things ideas and.

Power and brains, but also fear. But what I think is interesting.

Tightnancy about this book is that it would ultimately argue the reverse as the documentary, which is that sexuality is so complicated and we are all animated by fantasy. Wit I love the insane like lesbian who's maybe not a lesbian in the documentary, who's just like if people heard my fantasies, they would put me in.

Oh yes, you're like whoa, You're like, what are they? This is the one who was like the tongue rang one and.

She looks just like a women's hockey coach.

Like she's like the bushes. Then like the one who actually is a lesbian is like just the most like nineties our bodies, our bodies, ourselves, like bad nineties haircut. That is like lesbian bed death. It's real. But then also it w was is surprising. She's the one that says, I didn't even look at my vagina with a mirror till two years ago.

I just watched that episode of Sex and the City the other day.

One of the most classic episodes of television of all time, when Charlotte finally looks, and it's Samantha, of course, being like, honey, you've never taken a mirror and looked down there and see what's all the working parts? And Charlotte's like, why.

No, Because it's also when her doctor tells her her vagina's depressed.

Which is funny, kind of in the History of Sex and the City two of those characters, because I think Charlotte is the one that ends up being more kind of sexually free and kinky.

Because she's so ltr and which she knows, as Samantha says, Sorry Samantha, As Kim Katrell says in this book, oxytocin can decrease between years two and three in a relationship, and that's why divorces peak around year four worldwide seven year itch more.

Like four year stretch.

Book Club.

Club.

She's like, the seven year itch is when you've had the chemicals like four year dip for three years too long or whatever, which is you know, this.

Is interesting, let's talk about Let's talk about.

The seven year itch and the four year X because I.

Remember this famous article in New York Times magazine that was like about the search to find the female viagra.

Well, and she says that it's impossible because women have so many knobs that like, it doesn't work on women, and I can't just have blood rushing to the clit and all of a sudden a woman's horning.

But I do think there is something a little false in that. I feel like studies have shown and not totally where they were like, oh, no, you couldn't have a female viagra, and they were like, you can lubricate a woman, but she wouldn't necessarily be turned on, which may be true. But I'm like, but also, aren't they interconnected, because then it's like if a woman does take the pill and then she does feel like she can be more what, then maybe her mind will open to more of these kind of fantasies.

I think part of it is so wrapped up in the mythology of the biology of the woman.

Because a woman can't get hard, so the viagra can't.

Work well, yes, and because the vagina is a cave. A cave is full of mystery. It's a dark space. We don't know what's in there and we never will.

But it turned out a woman actually can get hard, as studies have shown. Glitteris doesn't gorge. It doesn't gorge when turned on.

But I think because it is not as visibly obvious. If a man is hard, he is visibly hard. But if a woman's glitterist is visually engorged, you might need you mean, some other note To an outside observer, it's not immediately apparent, and that is why we will continue to push the mythology that a woman's attraction is purely mental and is purely spiritual and motivated by social concerns.

And you know, it's funny in this racle they say a woman is actually more likely to feel before you're itch to be like okay, you know, like because it is not being like I know if you've had a four year itch, so you're gonna collogize, right, And the man is actually more fine with having the same old sex with the same old woman, maybe over and out

Yes, but I also think that that also just comes back to like typical daynam And it's like, I think the man is more fine with the same old, same hold because he's been conditioned by society, by our review of marriage, to view sex as something that like either your wife gives you or she doesn't give you.

So it's like, if you're getting it, be happy, Yeah, like dude, you should be happy do this. Yeah, Oh you're getting your poll wet.

So it becomes this thing where it becomes Low's comm denominator, and it's just like, well, then all he has about is getting his pole wet. But in reality, the man does have deeper fantasies that probably not being explored because he's also like, it'd be really faggoty to explore a fantasy.

Where he's like, oh, well, I couldn't like tell you what I wanted this right, And this is why it goes back to community communication, which is so important in a sexual dynamic, even when you're fetish just not communicating.

How much would you say your father has influenced your type?

Yeah, this whole book is very just like kissing, and your attraction is so influenced by like breastfeeding and your parents' sexuality.

Wait, I love the way that page you were just on ninety one. Yeah, this image of her holding a swan. She's wearing a bedazzled bikini.

Kind of like and the Mermaids, And there's just.

A large pol quote that says, how many people have been baffled by a domination fantasy? What about imagining we are the opposite sex and that.

It's a photo of which is also so sex And the city Samantha in like a business suit.

Oh wait, yeah, but she's also doing like a Charlie's Angels, blowing out a finger gun. And then the other one of her in the clouds is her holding a writing crop.

And then okay, the poll quote under the swan is and some fantasies are well just playing odd creating them. What's funny?

Sex in this City is so obviously the most important Joe of all time. But I've been watching like season four and there's all these like moments when everyone's like freaked out. I mean, like Carrie's kind of like she's she's always read out. She s freaked out with a guy wh wants to piss on her. They're always like ew, Samantha, no, like that's not cool, and like Samantha's freaked up the baby talk guy.

Then Miranda is freaked out by the guy who like goes down on her and then is like goes to kiss her, and she's like, are you kidding me? A napkin, I'm all over.

I'm like when Samantha is a lesbian for two episodes and they're all just like, whoa, please stop saying the word vagina. It's not cool.

Yeah, I don't want to hear that.

It's also because Miranda's so freaked out and you can't understand it, Like she's wearing like six turtlenecks and she's just like, what are you talking about?

And then it's when Charlotte has anal and they're like what but he's your husband, and Charlotte's like, exactly.

Here's a question I have for you, Lily. Do you think you have a type?

I was actually thinking about that so much during this book, And you know, on one hand, I do think I do, and then the other I actually don't think I do. I know some would say, what's you have? I think some would say, you know, I like a blonde. What do you think that comes from? You know, does it come from the rejection of my brunettess or is it the creation of this kind of you know, stereotypical male sexuality. It's about my desire to be this American blooded man

I think that's one hundred percent true. And I think our own sexual identity is so wrapped up in our fantasy of another person.

What do you think is your type. Well, I think I do have this type. I think you have a few types of a couple types, and I think everyone does.

Yes, some would say a few hundred times hello.

Oh honey, my type it's allid Toronto.

Does he live in Toronto? Does he have a pulse? But I think you know certainly that the types of men that I've dated in long term relationships, they are all these kind of like very American men if you were so hot, Like they're kind of these all American types.

Yet so funny because you're always desiring this kind of franco file.

Yes, and I think my fantasy is so much more Mediterranean and it is like the guy who's serving her oways on a rock in Cypress. But then I always end up dating these like super kind of like the baseball archetype, the lacrosse archetype. Like you know, there's the art bro, or there's the midwestern guy, like the colorade of the western Massachusetts.

But there's these kind of different states.

Yes, but they all have this kind of like semi rural masculinity to all of them.

No, And I think of the gay guy version of that is like to be this girl, yes, right, yes, and to want this guy because then I look like you can change a tire.

Yes, And so my kind of like desire to be like a girl name let's call her Madison.

Maybe her name is Madison. Maybe she grew up in suburban Toronto, went to a really good school, had a really good family, shot really good grades, wants to be a writer.

And it's funny because I've only really really traversed the fantasy of like the European. I mean, I lost some virginity to a British guy. My first boyfriend was British. But then after that, Yeah, it's semi rural. Yeah, Western mass Colorado, northern Washington, Wisconsin.

My type is northern Washington.

So this like Toronto, which all makes me the Madison ultimately.

Yeah. But then at the end of the day, I'm like, what is my type? I think my type is a mischievous smile. My type is a certain type of humor. Maybe a little bit of bossiness in the streets, but not bossy in the apartment. Not bossy in the apartment. Now do you think your mother's breastfeeding influenced your sexuality? Oh?

Of course she had very large nipples, which is why I desire a small one.

It's because in ancient times.

As a rejection of the feminine.

Right, the tinier the nipple, yes, the more you were attracted.

Nipples of course, were very tiny in Western art for centuries until they started to gain prominence as a rejection of the female form.

There's a guy that's interviewed in this book who says one of his turn ons is a woman who's really good at martial arts. Now, that's what I'm saying. The man's attraction is towards the brain. You know, it's like, yes, maybe he has mourning wood, but a man who likes martial arts, that's saying something.

Do you think it's just like because there's all sorts of like a cultural fetishes that could come into play there where he's associating martial arts with you know, a badass woman, a woman, you know, like a dominant woman, a woman of asia possibly yes, a woman of wearing robes, which also has sexual connotations. And then the sword as fallis and so maybe there's also like a latent homosexual attraction.

Right, I would say, like the martial arts, the desire of domination is the most ereotypical thing is you know, the businessman who wants to get walked on by stilettos. Now, the word stiletto, the trial first says, came up in America in the fifties and it's a long heeled shoe.

Aphdity means sea foam, as Aphrodity did emerge from the waves of the Mediterranean and that's why women are so assoctutid water. And then it's like the documentary cut to that random woman just being like, oh, water is so sexual to me.

I find the shower very erotic. Oh yeah, okay, like I would say, like the more like basic woman that's interviewed is this woman who says she's attracted to artsy guys, but then she describes the guys she's attracted to, and it's like, okay, everyone, She's like, I'm actually attracted to really tall guys. Yeah, oh yeah, with really broad shoulders. She's like, here's the thing. If they're tall without bron shoulders, then I don't like them. Dark eyes, dark hair, curly,

And it's just it's like tall, dark and handsome, like Guyana Beach it's.

Like, yeah, that's fantasy. And then all these just like a nerdy dad scientists who have all written books called arousal are interviewed, and this one, like dad arousal expert, is like, you know, actually, when people have fantasies of having sex and nature, it's actually that they want to be free from the chaine of society. Yes, maybe they want to be caught. Some people want to be caught some people don't.

Have you ever had sex in nature?

No? Oh yeah, well.

Maybe before you're forty.

It's not something I necessarily you.

Don't fantasize about. The liberation desire.

It's more sex in yes, other places, but I wouldn't call it the other places nature that.

I've had to them as like friends, parents, guests, rooms.

You know, kind of more the American car, Yes, the European nightclub.

Which is another side of masculinity, yes, American car. I mean, I think obviously game al culture is really very nature, very nature focused for cruising reasons, for social reasons, and then I think obviously that is bound up in social ideas of liberation, and so I think that the social aspect of is interesting. But I do wonder about the bye of physical relationship with nature, with feeling with dirt, with bark, with sand, with water, and what that does to eras well.

It also if we go back to the phallus in the game and culture say, oh, you know the beach. To me, who was born with the anatomy of more of the labia minor, you know, the sex and the beach, it seems, oh, what's going to get inside? It's getting a little more shaped, it's getting a little more exfoliated.

Yes, no, And I think that obviously anatomy wise there is more room to experiment. Of course, men are always pissed on trees, and then that has its whole like the sexual markers of domination and territoriality like coming to play there. But I actually wonder if there is in nature itself. We were talking about mother nature, right, I'll admit I've had sex in a bog before, and I think that a different bod a different.

Okay, not the bobo. Just wanted to make things clear here.

But it has a very mossy, spongy texture that is in some ways very feminine, right it almost I wonder if it is like men who were in the vision. Yes, it is a return to the womb that we crave.

You're breastfeeding essential and you're saying, oh, we're here, but mother is watching, and mother is saying it's okay. Well, and it goes back to the brain thing. And you know, to quote Christian Cavaleria, the question always is, you know.

Sexual expert Kristin Cavaleri, and she.

Was like, what would I do if I had a parade where I would like jerk off all day long? Then I would piss? And I do think in that way like sex outside would be easier with the foulus.

Absolutely and oral of course, although isn't oral easy anywhere for a woman?

Or do you really need like the bed? I would call it easy, okay, you know what I mean, Like you could, but it's not easy. It would be more idea because you have to get a little bit more to get under.

You know.

It's it's like you're kneeling and the dick is just in your face. Hello, good morning Seattle. Right, ok, you have to kind of get under and spread. It's a little stand and finger.

Fingering, yes, which I saw it. That panel once said that the lesbians at re speech in the seventies would stand in a shopping bag and figure each other so cops couldn't see under the door.

Exactly. That's easy. You can absolutely fin you're in a bog.

I want to talk about the connection between sex and comedy. Michael Bowder explains, we feel guilty and ashamed of sex, and so what jokes do is play on our guilt and shame, make us laugh and enable us to enjoy sex. It's a form of mastery. That's so interesting because in this context, sex becomes something we fear, something we must tame, and comedy jokes allow us to be in control over the dominion of sex.

No one said it, but sex is almost like stand up the first time you do it. Yes, you're so they're so much frame and you probably won't kill No, you probably won't come.

But when you get that first chuckle for the.

Audience, oh, there's nothing better.

It's the thumbs up and you say, I can keep going.

And it's the building, and it's the building. Yes, But let's talk about actual jokes during sex.

Hmm, okay, when you're doing the borsch belt routine in the booder, I.

Think it's about right telling exact jokes. But I do think it's so important to have a little bit of humor and be able to laugh. Yeah, because also sometimes things can get awkward, things can get weird.

If I may be radically vulnerable for a second. I actually think that I tend to laugh more on a second sexual outing with a man, because the first time, oh yeah, is almost a little it's like pretty performative. I mean, you're so into the fact that like, oh, we're in a hallway, like oh, the mayor d is coming right.

I'm British. But then the.

Second time, I think can be more giggly. I think as a relationship goes on and the oxytocin wanes, I actually find you probably giggle less unless you're reacting to something funny that's actually happening in real time, because you're actual doing more fantasy work.

See it's so funny. I find the opposite. I actually find that the giggling is even more.

You giggle more than ever at year eleven or fifteen.

Yeah, because I feel like more of Actually, yeah, those first times are so like yeah, performative, interesting, not all the time, but then like you know, sometimes it is a little more giggly.

See, I feel like the sex now this is now nobody wants this like literally, see, I feel like the sex with my rabbi now is it's like because we've been in a relationship for a longer time. It's more like, Oh, this is this is what I paid for, This is why I subscribe to the sub stack.

You know what I mean? No laughing aloud. It's more like sometimes our laughter filled and sometimes are not. It depends on the play session, if you will.

I guess, yes, it does depend on the play I'm not thinking like a little chuckle. I'm thinking like big laughs.

Yeah, I guess I'm talking about more like little giggles. Oh yeah, I mean little giggles are always we're talking about this, Like who talk about hooping and hollering? Watching Kim Katrell walk through Cyprus, I was screaming with laughter.

Yeah, I mean the movie is like one of the funniest movies I've ever seen.

It's three ninety nine to round.

And turning around and facing camera. She'll be like walking away and like wearing just like a weird top with like seven key holes in it, and then like turns around and faces the camera and just like and what's more interesting than sex with desire?

Can I ask you a question, do you think me early more than parents? I actually, for me, I think early media. Probably I watched define sexuality.

Yeah, I mean, of course, like movies completely defined sexuality.

Would you like to share and be vulnerable?

I mean, like, what dominating my fantasy?

Or do you think what turned you on to something that you didn't even know you were turned on by? And you can be vague just named the film of a situation interesting In music, you know, maybe the fast paced techno of French electro, of daft punk. While driving?

Yeah, I mean, you know, I look back at like Charlie's Angels too full Throttle and Justin Thireau and that film and his abs, But I also think like those are obvious things. It's like, oh, it's a guy with abs.

Well, it's so funny you mentioned Charlie's Angels because I remember walking with you in the erotic town of Salem, Massachusetts once at a field trip and you said to me, Lucy Lou is so hot.

That is interesting.

Fourteenth Yeah, and she is, for sure, she totally is. And I was like, I think it was like, yes, seeing girls.

Be dark, there's an anti social nest there a little bit because like dark girl wants to be submissive because it's like naughty.

Yes, And then I think on the gay factor, it's like, maybe the dark girl is most likely to kind of be like be a lesbian, yeah, and not be fucking conventional.

Right, that's also true, and it's just like, yeah, it's a flouting of convention in general.

But then it's so virginal. But then in the opposite it's you know, what's more attractive that the basic right is the lacrosse player, the cheerleader who goes dark. It's funny.

Then I think, you know, I was so into you and McGregor when we routines as well, and as I came out as bisexual in ninth grade, I started to really pursue a Uman McGregor crush with a plump and for me, he was a man, but there was also something a little bit gay and European about him, and so he was there was an accessibility there that I felt he was like a bridge to a sexuality I

Day, yes, and I would like to bring up the movie that I think of kind of an ironic route for me, a life less Ordinary, which is Cameron Diaz and you and McGregor, and it is kind of this like sexy erotic European electronic music alternative mmm mm hm.

And so once again you see your punk identity being validated in the erotic narrative.

It is ideas. And she is more a blonde you're saying, I'm not, oh so she's no, But she's kind of dark in that movie, a little more like Kimeron's is always a guy's girl. It's a guys girl. It's kind of like, what if I said this.

Do you see orgasm as freedom?

Yes? I think she brings up in this book studies show. You know, it's the only time in life, you know, you're not trying to do this. Politics aren't being discussed really let go.

The French of course called Le putino, which means the little death, and it is a death because it is a release quite physically literally released. But also do we lose our cells in create a space for something larger

Why am I here? And like you can't get out of there. You're smelling his big socks. Run the marathon in.

But other than that, I feel like that's.

Always more for pre but more during. Yeah, your lights at don't think about that because that's such a thing you're not supposed to think about during.

It is just like total utter loss.

Of what you're supposed to do in this I wonder you know, we haven't discussed porn yet, but you know, there's a lot being said today about how porn ruins fantasm, and people both on the left and right under the spectrum have said that porn is changing the way that people view their own sexuality and their expectations from sexual partners, their expectations of their own identity, creation and how they see themselves.

I'm wondering to what extent that's true. Obviously, I've been looking at porn for most of my career.

As a man.

It's hard to say how much has influenced me or not because I'm very into taboo, power dynamics and porn. I think the stepfather, the stepfather, the military man. It's like the boy scout leader and the truth, the.

Class of the teacher, the football.

Code, Like there's always something like that, and like the more like difference the cop and the guy who's been accused of shoplifting.

Like it's kind of like fast food everything in moderation.

Oh, in terms of porn not affecting you're but it's like, but all those fantasies to me are kind of like.

They're there before. Yeah, they're only they're there to kind of help you come along. I don't mean to do it in new ways.

But I think the criticism would be that it's like you're watching people like be so porny in the way they move and interact with each other physically.

Right, they're saying that like porn ruins the way you're having sex, because.

Then you're not being like curious and exploring with your fingers and really inhaling someone's scent and their leather and they're better and they're cinnamon and you're not like.

They're pumpkins burying your.

Like plague nose and their cinematon.

I know, I'm like, does Kim Katrell because.

You're just like thinking about a porn just kind of watching porn.

I feel like she's.

Watching porn in a way where she's like lighting candles and watching like an eighties porn like with her love.

No, I know, I think it's like candles. I almost wonder if it's like seventies it's.

Yeah, it's definitely older porn. But she's like interested in like a new directtion.

Right, this is a sweetish direction, right, it's a little more erotic films like whatever I happened to NC seventeen an erotic film for me? Yeah, that was the Doom Generation Gregor Rocky erotic thriller. Yes, I was like seeing things that, like I was like, I've never seen this before, and she is more of the erotic film than like with what she's been mareed three times but is now single good for her? I know her last marriage was to an audio technician.

Wow, I bet you know how to turn her mouth.

Because sound is also so huge.

Sound is really big because it's.

About receiving the sound from your lover.

Yes. Sound is because if they're just.

Silent, then it's.

Like hello, Yeah, it's funny.

I don't know.

I'm into both.

I'm into sound and visuals. But almost now i'm thinking about it, I'm like, maybe I'm more into sound.

I'm into both a loud lover and also like a deadly silent lover.

Well, because that's erotic into its own. Yes, because it's like I'm taking over you're just here.

It creates more space for my sound.

You're like the loud one. It's about you're the loud one, and it's about kind of more. I think you're more like, let me have more like the silent football coach, right, so you can be Madison studies show segments how does she live? What does she wear? What does she eat? Are we doing that for? Or okay, what does she eat?

Peaches, oyster, chocolate, pomeg cinnamon.

You know what's actually such? I think an erotic, more chemicatrolic erotic meal. In this way, it's so like cherry cinnamon lamb chops.

Like something kind of like so the Sandra d used to have the cooking show. If you said, there's like someone who posts like unhinged recipes, and like there's one where she's there just like it's chocolate cherry wine ribs. And she's just always been like, I'm making a blueberry sauce for my like a dobo like chocolate tacos.

And that's very like I'm forty three, I'm divorced and I'm seducing another forty five year old businessman. Yeah, and the way to his stomach is cabernet. Yeah, and chocolate ribs.

No, She's definitely like red meat, red fruit. I mean, it's just that literalism of just like red being passion and so I'm gonna eat red.

I'm like, I don't think food for me, it's food.

Is so erotic.

For you, You're red side. Food is erotic. But like if we're talking about like what's kind of the most erotic, it's being not fault I tell you that that's for me. But of course, but the day food and making its full.

There's nothing actually more food driven than lack of food, because it's hunger. It's hunger itself, and it's hunger for what is it hunger for pussy or is it hunger for veal?

Parmegan It's then feel.

Like that's really Italian like lesbian sext toy line.

Feel now I got veal on the braid. Okay, so Kim Katrell, It's champagne, it's chocolate covered strawberries, balsamac It's Mediterranean style. Yeah, it's great, believes so many.

It's anything that can be like fed to you while you're reclining on a rock.

What does she wear?

Honestly, she should walk in a Couslado show.

Oh my god, Yeah, because she's like creative nitwear. Yeah, it's off the shoulder, elbow patches and then slits on the sleeve. But then also it's like I think she's still just like body con leopard coat, stilettos, sweater.

Because she's pushing seventy and she looks amazing and she is just kind of being like, I'm gonna do classic power women's beltic stuff. Obviously, her character in The Sex and the City dresses in this really loud.

Like business Patricia sex business.

One where she's always wearing like a crazy pink suit and like the animal prim send.

Like the belt. In her personal life, I.

Think she is like more sexy, but it's more coastal because she grew up on Vancouver Island. It's always like a little bit rocky, a little bit like.

She's sitting actually looking over because she's cold beat and I think she's wrapping her maybe nude body in a huge cashmir blanket.

Yes and throws yes, and like booties.

She's not like very sneaker. I don't think no oh, and I think she is stilettos and like stomping on her audio. Guy, how does she live?

She's definitely has framed photos of boundary bursting burlesque babes like j Baker ships.

On her wall and so May West quotes same. And also I think it's like paintings of legs. Yeah, and fallus sculptures. Its house so fabulous. It's sexy Buddha.

And does she live in like Scotland, Toronto or.

I think she's London, Okay, And so also she's pulling out like ancient.

She hates Carrie Bradshaw. She lives in London. So what I like about this book is at the end there's not even a note from her. There's just a note from the publisher. The publisher would like to acknowledge with enormous thanks the following people for their invaluable help on flagging, enthusiasm, generosity, and grace during the making this book. Kim Ktrell, who

And then this big quote, desire is like the sun, It nurtures, it burns, it's heat irresistible. You're like, oh, okay, Waters, I mean earth.

Desire is life is Freud said, everything is erotic. I don't know if it's a direct quote, but it's basically what his kind of thing was. And it's like, I do think the lesson of the book is it's like sexuality is in everything, and it informs everything we do, and if you are not in touch with the living world, in the world around you, your sex life is not.

Going to be satisfying exactly. I don't think it is an on and off switch, and I think we need to kind of throw these ideas of what turns a man on what turns a woman on? It's really what turns mom or Earth.

On, yes, and what turns her off? Climate change?

Thank you, so use plastics d growth. Now.

Also, let me just note the book was printed in Singapore.

That makes sense. I feel like she like.

Had this idea and like told the documentary to HBO and they're like, I mean, we can't say no because like in the city is like such a big deal. You can kind of do whatever you want. But like we al should have a book to random and they like went to random house and they were like.

This is random, Okay, who are you in the book? I mean, I think you're kind of aphrodity or I was emerging from the sea. Thank you.

But you're also affro dating because you are such a water book.

No, I know, and I'm always coming out like both mean, like what happened in there? I don't know. I give this book well, I give the documentary film five to five out of five fallacies. The book, the photography, the visuals are amazing. Personally, I would like a lot more personal information from Kim on like what turns her on, but I respect her privacy. I guess at the end of the.

Day, Yeah, it's pretty random, or even more about like I don't know because the stories in the book it is so general, it's just studies show. It could have been more interesting. She was a little bit more like when we were in Cyprus, like I saw this hot guy, yeah, or like I talked to the Cypriot, like who has said.

Dating like this is? Like at first did laugh in the.

Journey and I wish it were a little bit more of a global survey of sexuality and a little less just like study show.

And then the five Toronto bisexuals that she go watch. The movie branded on Apple TV do Yourself a Favor, Okay best CEO. Stephen and Lily was produced by.

One in four women in the Italian Peninsula who've never had an orgasm.

Darby Masters, supervising producer is a man in Toronto who's dated many women at one time and lives to tell the tale Aboo Zafar. It was also produced by the Goddess herself, Christina Efron.

Our engineer was New York photographer Bahid Fraser, who's been capturing glimpses of women's private parts since the early two thousands in and around the New York City area.

Music actually is full of sex and thank god we have a theme song by a sexy music producer known as Stephen Phillipswurst.

The concept for this podcast, which originally created by seminal sexologist and podcast production company Prolog Projects. We're no longer affiliated with them, but we wish them the best in their erotic journey.

Find us and support our research on Patreon, dot com, slash CBC the pod, and a huge thank you to all of our lovers who have been leaving make five Star Refuse. They make us feel very pleased.