Providing feedback, compliments, and corrections is a primary way that we build children's identity. They do need to know what people who are important to them think of Do you ever wrestle with who's giving your kids feedback, especially feedback on
who they are? Sometimes I think as parents, we look at the world and maybe their coaches and their teachers, or maybe even sometimes their pastors, and we get a little bit concerned about how they're getting feedback and what the feedback is pushing their kids to be, maybe more popular, maybe to look different. And they come back changed a little bit when they spend time with that mentor
or that adult. That can be really a dark place for some of us as parents, especially as we see different realities inside of our kids' spirit and who they are and what their identity is. But today on the Celebrate Kids podcast in this daily segment, Facing the Dark, Dr. Kathy unpacks this a little bit. How do we guide our kids well when they're always looking for feedback? So let's turn now to Dr. Kathy So Dr. Kathy, there's a new feature inside of Snapchat that is really making a lot of
It's called Snapchat Half Swipe. It's when users swipe open a message without lifting their finger off the screen. They can see the message in full without making it mark as red inside of the app. If they swipe it closed again before removing their finger, the message is sent or never sees evidence that they've seen this. It's almost like a sneak peek. The point of this design was really to alleviate the pressure that teens feel to respond immediately.
That's according to a Snapchat spokeswoman. However, teenage girls in particular, when they've seen this and have documented this, they see that this really can cause a spiral of self-doubt, making them wonder if the person has seen their post, but isn't responding back to them. Now, Dr. Cathy, this just seems like a weird story and really kind of nuanced, but I want to open it up a little bit because I do think that there's a dynamic here that our kids are growing up
in this world. That's not just those that are using Snapchat. It's also those of us that are kind of living in a world. for some of us, maybe even living in a world like a COVID world, where so many kids grew up with people covering their faces and not really being able to see, you know, expressions. In the same way, we have that kind of idea within texting and other forms of
communication where we don't get a chance to read body language. What does it do when kids kind of experience this kind of anxiety where they're not able to see somebody's response to, I would say, maybe even like them expressing themselves as they're growing and developing in their identity? Is this just part of the normal process
of growth and development that they need to kind of get over? Or do these stressors of not being able to see immediate feedback really squelch some of the steps that we take naturally in Yes, yes, and yes, really interesting. I do think it's become part of normal, which is why they've got to learn to handle it. I don't like this. I don't, I'll just go on record to say, I don't like this half swipe idea. I get it because some,
some young people are so anxious. They keep staring at a device to see, okay, when has Fred read it or when has George read it or when did Jacob read it? So there's some stress there, but this idea that somebody can read it, but the message sender doesn't know it's been read. Like that is, that's stress producing. And guess what, Wayne, stress causes stress. So now we've got young girls, maybe more so than the boys, stressed and
then stressed and then stressed again. It hurts the adrenal glands. They learn a fight and flight mechanism very quickly. It can really change the physical wellbeing. I think that I would love to say to these girls, why is that one person's opinion so important to you? And this is, you know, this, I would get off of Snapchat, but again, I'm not the mom or the dad here, but
that's the conversation I think moms and dads have to have. If they discover that a girl in particular is upset by this, you know, I sent this really cool, you know, picture, I've got this really neat slide that I posted and, you know, this kid, he hasn't even noticed it. Man, if I was the mom, I'd be like, why is that kid's opinion of you so important? So we can teach them a lot about, you know, who's their audience. and why are you posting? And is it to impress or is it
to educate? Is it to inspire? What's your purpose? And one of the concerns I have, Wayne, and I think you would agree, is that they can really start having a fake identity. If they figure out that certain types of posts are paid attention to, then they're gonna create those kinds of posts because being paid attention to is more important than integrity. And then they fake it to make it, and then they You know, Dr. Cathy, I want to pull this back even from the whole
digital landscape. And let's bring this now into actually just kind of real world. I think that for a lot of us, especially as parents, but even thinking of our kids as they're growing and developing, there's a natural play that some kid is gonna either respond
or not respond to something that they've done. Maybe it's something on the playground, you know, where they did like this cool catch or something, and their classmates aren't impressed, or they could, you know, do something inside of the classroom, and they think that they did a really great thing, or they did really well on their test, and the teacher's really unresponsive in their emotions back to them. Or maybe even pretend like they don't acknowledge
that, right? I think that there's such a state almost of expressionless society sometimes that we can kind of walk into where we've kind of seen it all. Oh, I've seen somebody make a one handed catch like that. Or, oh, wow, I've seen somebody else do really well on a spelling test like that. And our kids don't get maybe that feedback
that they might be expecting or looking for. How do we guide our kids when they're in those kind of social settings that might almost be similar to this, where people act as if that thing that you sent really doesn't matter? How do we guide kids when they don't get the response that maybe they were expecting or hoping for, especially as they're expressing some things that maybe
they really feel smart about? They feel body smart, so they're really good at being this thing, or they feel, you know, nature smart and nobody's acknowledging it. How do we kind of guide our kids when they're in It's a great question because providing feedback compliments and corrections is a primary way that we build children's identity. They do note, they do need to know what people
who are important to them think of them. So the mom, the dad, the grandparent, the aunt, the teacher, their favorite babysitter, their piano teacher, you know, I don't want them to care about everybody's opinion. But hey, best friend, totally legit, as long as you're not doing something to perform. I wonder if we could teach them to sometimes ask for the feedback, to say to a teacher, hey, you haven't said anything to me yet, but I saw you talking to Peter. Have you read my poem? Now,
you don't do that egotistically. You don't do that to be demanding or to be interrupting a busy teacher. But there's a place where I think we train children that it's OK to wonder or to ask an authority figure how I think it's okay to teach them to ask an authority figure for an opinion of how they're doing. I would watch the kid to make sure that the motive was pure there. So here's another idea, Wayne. What if we also taught our children to self-evaluate? To stand
in the freedom where they know how well they've done. There's an exercise I teach teachers where before a child completes a test, they have to tell the teacher how they think they did. And some teachers have done this. So before you turn in the test, you have to tell me the grade that you believe you've earned. And the kids are like, but you haven't graded it yet. No, I know, but I want to know what you think you've
done. Because if you're not self-evaluating, then no, you need to tell me, did you feel that you've studied well and that you've earned an A or are you very disappointed it's a C? And then we watch to see, okay, a kid says it's a C and actually earned an A, that's a kid who has no concept of what the teacher was looking for. And so really teaching a child how to evaluate self would
be a super important thing to do in light of this dilemma. I also want to acknowledge that I think for parents and adults, we can think about what it feels like. You know, it, I can think of times when I've communicated and I've gotten no feedback and, and I've wondered, okay, did I not come across right? How did I express that? You know, why are they saying nothing? Like, am
I invisible? And like, I'm a, I'm a relatively confident, experienced woman, you know, but every once in a while there'll be those moments and like, and they, and then you start to second guess and you start to wonder and wonder can turn to worry very, very quickly. So I get that
it's an uncomfortable space. Let's watch for that and You know, Dr. Cathy, it reminds me of what you write about within Five to Thrive, that there's this reality that we build our identity, our understanding of who we are really inside of that security and identity and then belonging. And the belonging part is just a big part of our identity formation. I mean, we've talked about that a lot here the last couple of weeks. Is it wise for us and maybe how do we teach our kids about
identity formation? Does it help them to know that the reason that they might be looking for the teacher's approval is because they're trying to understand more who they are and they're building their identity? Is that helpful to walk kids through? And if it is, how do we do that well so that our kids don't just become, you know, this egotistical person that's always looking for approval from other people? You know, it is a part of natural identity formation, right? It
That's so fascinating. I think for children to understand that they're seeking input, whether that's a confirmation, an affirmation, a compliment, even a correction, they're seeking that input because they do want to know who they are. And they do want to know where they stand. I would love for kids to be self-satisfied and not always need to know, in comparison to the other 20, where do I stand? That's why I tell parents, stop asking your children how the
other kids did. Like, who cares? Just accept your child's 89% or whatever. So yeah, teach the kids that this is valid. We're desperate to be known. Right, Wayne? I mean, that's biblical. God creates us and knows us. So we're drawn to people who know us. So I think that's another factor that might be playing in here. You know, does that teacher know me? Does the coach know me and that I'm capable of that? Or how could I get him to see that I can kick the ball through the net
with both my left and my right foot? Yeah, so let them know. This is a valid thing that you want to know where you stand. It could teach them something valid about authority, right? And submission. We do want to be good for those that we sit under, if I can put it that way. So yeah, validate that. And if they're not doing it, maybe have that conversation as well. And let's teach them discernment. Like why is Billy's opinion of you so important? What is it about Billy that inspires
you in that way? Find out because it might not be good. And why do you not care what your math teacher thinks of you? Like, explain that to me. So I think there's a lot we could teach them about discernment. That belonging piece is huge. Who we hang out with, who You know, as parents, Dr. Cathy, we oftentimes will see our kids navigating the world and we give them insights
into how they Can navigate the world better, right? There's things that we might see them with their teammates in Sports where we might pull them aside after the coach is done and just kind of give them encouragement Hey, this is how you can operate inside of that landscape of being on a team better or maybe even in the classroom We understand
that with their friends How do we guide our kids? Well in this kind of teen culture landscape if we want to call it that thinking specifically through the fact that they're wrestling through Digital technologies and other things that are really trying to shape them How do we, how do we do that? Well, how do we guide them? Well, in this landscape right now, especially knowing the teen culture kind The first thing I'm going to say is get them off of the apps that
concern you. Like if you're watching consistent negativity and depression and stress and anxiety and they can't handle not having their phone in their hand because they're waiting for some kid to affirm them, this is dangerous. And I would encourage you to put your children first. and their future first and get them off of these apps, even if they're going to complain and whine, because ultimately you are in charge. I want to give
you permission again to do that. And I think we also, at the same time that we teach them proper etiquette online, I think we get them off of the apps that are unhealthy. Bottom line. If you choose to let them stay on, then we teach them the etiquette of being on there and how we handle it, how many minutes a day, and how, you know, do we comment on other people's posts or do we just expect people to comment on
ours? Like, let's play the game right. And at the same time, Wayne, that we do all of that, we prepare them for real life relationships, right? It's much more important than they learn about eye contact and,
you know, head nodding and affirmation and body language. having a welcoming posture entering a room and caring about who's there not just caring that they find out that you're there so teaching them the skill of relationship and the skill of connection and belonging and friendship is i would prioritize that and what if i would boldly suggest that if we got better at teaching our middle schoolers and high schoolers in our college young adults how to relate in
person they would choose to get off of the devices. they would see the value of real connection and learning a board game and whatever. And I'm gonna say one more thing, and that is, please consider the school you have your children in. Because if you're listening to me and you're thinking, yeah, but the kids in my kid's school, I don't want them hanging out with those kids. Cause I'm talking about the value of real relationships, skin on and eye contact people. Right.
And if you're thinking about Kathy, the kids in my kid's school, why are they in that school? I did. We need to always evaluate. Are my kids hanging with kids who I think are good role models for them. And even are the teachers and volunteers in that, in that school, you know, appropriate for my kid, you know, Wayne, you and your wife, Nancy have placed your eight children in a phenomenal
school. And I noticed that the other Friday night, the senior class. had a welcoming gathering party in the, um, I forget what you call it, but the union room, the room, the cafe, kind of a place. And the seniors were there and they were welcoming. And they had created tremendously fun games for the underclassmen. Like the seniors said, we are a community.
Like that was beautiful. You know, as Dr. Kathy was talking today, it reminded me of a couple of people that come out of 2 Samuel chapter nine. I'll begin reading at verse seven and kind of jump around. Don't be afraid, David said, for I will surely show you kindness for the sake of your father Jonathan. So Mephibosheth ate at David's table like one of the king's sons. He
always ate at the king's table. He was lame in both feet. The reality of what happens here with David and Mephibosheth is really unique. I mean, in ancient monarchies, it was common for new kings to eliminate the families of the previous dynasty as they secured the throne. Mephibosheth was the grandson of King Saul, the son of Jonathan, and he had every reason to fear King David. As a disabled man, he was crippled at
both feet. Mephibosheth also carried cultural stigma of being considered weak and less than, and yet David, really out of a covenant of love for Jonathan, sought him out not to destroy him, but really to restore him. David invited Mephibosheth to live in his palace and eat at his table as one of his own sons. In that space of radical safety and acceptance, Mephibosheth went from being hidden in fear at Lodabar to
being seated in honor. David's kindness was driven by his relationship with Jonathan, but also by his heart for God, really a God who restores and redeems and includes and even values the marginalized. I think this is a really helpful passage for
us as parents to look to when we're working with our kids. When we go out of our way to show our kids love, a love that is unconditional and really not based on performance or ability or even comparison, we offer what David offered for Mishvibosheth at his table, a safe place for kids to belong. When kids know that they're seen, valued, and safe, even when they're feeling less than, they begin to walk in their true identity as being loved and
honored. I think it's helpful for us as parents to invite our kids to bring their fears and mistakes, their insecurities to us, and then we can respond with grace and dignity, helping walk them through what it looks like to have an identity that's fully rested and restored inside of Christ. I hope that's an encouragement for you today, and I hope this whole podcast is an
encouragement for you. A lot of the things that Dr. Kathy talked about were really in her book, Five to Thrive, especially as she started talking about identity and how we form it, and then also going to belonging. I encourage you to go to our website and pick up that book today. You can do that by going to CelebrateKids.com. Again, that's CelebrateKids.com. Now, on behalf of Dr. Kathy Cooke, my name is Wayne Stender. We're so thankful that you're listening with us today, and