Hi, Welcome to Bc Cat On Brad White happy to have you with us today, and I'm happy to have a full crew here. Good morning, Bob. Good morning, guys. Dustin. Good morning. Philip. Good morning, guys. And we have Doctor. Fred Gin from the American Association of Bo Practitioners. He's their executive director. Good morning, Fred. Hi, everybody. So we're happy to have him on because he's got his own podcast that he does through the Bo
practitioners called Have you heard. And he is really good at identifying lots of new scientific topics, great podcast if you're a veterinarian and wanna listen to something else while you're in the truck good chance to catch up on what's latest and we're gonna quiz for Adam, Fred adam, what's latest today, including talking a little bit about the high path Av influenza, how it's influence the cattle industry, what are some of the upcoming things that we see.
As well as talk about some advances in Bo Medicine. And then at the end, I've got some questions for you guys that we'll do kind of a rapid fire questions as we go through our final topic there. Before we get into those, I wanted to remind you if you wanna listen to 1 of our other podcast podcasts, we have a Bo Science with Bc, which a lot of times what we'll do is we'll talk about different manuscripts or scientific topics in a little bit
more detail. So that one's a little bit different than this 1 and that we dive into some of the specifics that you may wanna listen to. Guys is as we were putting this together, we were talking about advances in Bo Medicine through our career, many have had kind of a in this room, I've had a career that has spanned decades now. So what it made me think of being summer was I wanted to see if you guys could identify summer blockbuster movies from the eighties. I have a
list of the top. 10 summer blockbuster from the eighties, and I wanna see how many you guys can name. If you don't name 1 on the list, you're out we'll see who's the last man standing. Oh. Fred you're our guest, you get go first. About the terminator. No. Alright. Fred Fred didn't want to play it. I mean, you could've just said I don't wanna play, Fred. I like that 1, Fred. Mom, Alright. I'm gonna go with I wanna, the Harrison ford. Oh, what are they called the? It's not an actor.
Use I thing. Oh, I'm b on the names of the you know, the, temple of Doom and, you know, so the... Yeah, how what very difficult last name. Simple of doom. I will accept that. Okay. Fill. There you go. Ghost. That 1 is not in the top. That's gonna guess that too. Dustin. Dirty dancing. Oh, not in the top 10. Alright. I'm gonna go back... How about? How about the original top gun. The original top gun Yeah. Is on the list. Alright Alright. We're out. We lost Bob. He's The only
1. So Bob, Bob could have named all 3 of the Indiana Jones movies. Yeah. Batman. Oh. Back to the future. Okay. Don't forget don't forget about Star Wars, and number 1, and I don't know why you guys didn't have it right off tip of the tongue, e t. Yeah I finally. I forgot the phone home. So now now that we've done that part, Fred, we wanted to talk a little bit about, so the high path Avian influenza, and we briefly discussed this a few weeks
ago. I know the Ab has been very involved in trying to generate and dis assimilate scientific information for investigations on this. Maybe give us a broad overview from your perspective of of where we are today. Where we are today is there's been about a hundred and 30 hertz impacted. I think they're supposed to a dozen states. Kansas is 1 of the states that has had herd affected. It's only been identified in dairy. So has not affected the Fed cattle industry or Cal calf ranches, and it's it's
been spreading. And right now, the the the the theory is is that there was 1 jump from birds to cows, and now it's spreading from cow out either through introduction of lac dating dairy animals and nerds or via mechanical transfer. And then probably 1 of the most important things for listeners to understand is pasteur milk is safe, Fda, Friday released, you know, a very comprehensive study. On commercial hospitalization. They've looked at multiple different dairy products,
and it ina the virus. So drink pasteur milk or consuming pasteur dairy products is safe. And then also, on the beef side, the Usda has confirmed that eating beef is safe that this virus does not pose a public health risk from, you know, consuming the products that we that we eat. They even in ground beef patties with virus and then cook those hamburger patties to media and
inactivated the virus. So think that's pretty important for everyone to understand and it's important and for the veterinary industry to demonstrate that the products that our clients produce are are safe and tasty. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think that's the the human health side of it is is a part that's important to kind of iron out And we go back to the cal side when you say those herd are affected, The main thing
that... What what some of the symptoms that cows show when they're impacted with this virus. Well, it... It's it's a bit strange because, you know, when we think about flu in humans or birds or other species, we think about a arrest virus that, you know, causes respiratory symptoms. With this virus, influenza AH5N1, in cows, it based quickly goes right to the m gland.
They've even done some aerosol commercialization studies, and it's pretty much transferred in the male And what it does is it makes cows stop eating, stop rum eating and stop making now. And they do recover 95 to 98 percent of them. And so that's that's you know, we're thankful that those animals do recover. But, you know, pretty much, it's significant economic hit to these da, when they, have 10 percent of their animal
quit making milk. That probably if you look at know, our napkin math thus far is it probably costs about anywhere from a hundred 50 to 250 bucks per cow. You is what the economic hit is on these da, in people. There's been 3 people affected. There there all dairy farm employees and the primary symptom of people is pink eye, because we have influenza receptors in our con of or in and There's been great research out that cows have those receptors in their
ut. Mh. Interesting. Yeah. That's interesting that there would be that big a difference between species. We we often don't think about how different species respond, and I think a good point that you're making there that most times we think about influences as respiratory, but here, we're seeing memory you. Yeah. 1 of the things that... Yeah. I I think and and I really tip my hat to Fred and what he's done on a leadership side because we live in a world, you know, with the Internet and lots
of information going around. 1 of the things that, I think when you have something new, like, we've really not seen this ad influenza jumped to cattle. There's a lot of questions from a lot of different people and Fred is has organized kind of weekly meetings to have the veterinarians that are on the ground.
Producers that are affected or producers that are interested well as some of the regulatory people all get together and without that effort to have some miscommunication, I think miscommunication could happen really easily. What have you kinda... So, first of all, thank you for kinda making sure that that those groups are talking to each other because you would think, oh, well, for don't talk to each other without Fred stepping in, but I'm not sure that would have happened. Well,
thanks, Bob. I appreciate that. You know, it's it's really, I'm just the organizer. It's all the smart people that are figuring this out. You know, when we initially met, it was before we knew what this disease was. It was was just very veterinarians and the Texas panhandle handle saying something weird going on here. We don't know what it is. And and so initially, when we met it was to try to collaborate and in figure that
out. And then once the diagnosis was done, we'd primarily focused on, you know, collaboration, sharing, case histories, research and laboratory reports and whatnot. So, you know, it's been a good effort. Thank I'm thankful for the Aa members that have participated and really are driving the ship. So what are what are the next steps in the process for Edward or do you have kind of the next parts outlined? Well, I think
the the next parts are. We really have to get a really good handle on how exactly the virus is being transmitted, and I think we're learning more and more about that every day. You know, goodness. It's only been 3 months, just a little over 3 months, and they've already figured out a lot. And then we need to encourage dairy farms to report. That's the major barrier right now. They don't wanna be identified as being a positive heard. They're concerned about their, you know, the workers
on their farm. They're not concerned about their milk market and whatnot. So we we need to get a really good grasp on where this virus is. And then I think we need to focus efforts on prevention and that may or may not include of vaccinations so there's some discussions going on with that right now and what some of the opportunities and challenges. So appreciate your leadership on that and keeping everybody up to date. I would say 1 of the things about their reporting. Those requirements
vary state. State based on movement and how that's set up. So if you're if you have questions about that, contact your local veterinarian and or your state veterinarian and they will help you figure out what is the right thing to do in each situation and when you might need to test? So thanks, Fred
for your leadership? So I'm gonna shift gears and I'd like to talk about advances in in Medicine, but I'm gonna I'm gonna change it a little bit on you guys, and we've talked about to things that maybe you've seen over your career, but I want you to project forward and Fred and Bob, I'm gonna start with you guys as veterinarians and then bob, or Dustin and Philip up, I'm gonna turn to you guys and say, what do you guys see as
what's next in veterinary medicines. So what are the next things that are coming that you think either are used a small amount now and we'll be used much more. So or maybe something that's not even used yet. Bob, I'm gonna start with you first. So I think 1 of... And I'm gonna go back too. I I like to read some of these older, books that I Might I go to garage sales whatever room, old veterinary books too And it is interesting to see 2 things that are really interesting.
Some things, you know, you can read a book from the late 18 hundreds or early 19 hundreds, and and they they were spot on. Those guys understood, the disease process and the best treatments just as well as we do today. And other things they were way off on. So you know, looking into the future. It's, like, well, I bet that trend continues. I'll bet there's some things that we're just nailing and some things that we don't we
don't quite figure out. And what I see us moving towards in the future is, I I think, like, ef Fred said, you know, disease control is... So It's either. Well, maybe it's either easy or it isn't. And first so I'll go back to the, you know, things they got right in the 18 eighties. They were pretty straightforward, and we figured them out and we understood it. Things that were complicated then are still complicated. Now things with
a lot of different modes of transmission. You know, how does how does the bacteria virus move from 1 angle to the next? Things that have a lot of other factors, you know, the nutritional aspect or something. So anything that makes a disease process complicated. We may still be struggling with this 20 years, 40 years from now. And so it... So working with clients. It's
helping them understand that. Yeah. There's there's some things in animal health that we understand we know what to do, we can make a big impact. And there's other things that we still don't and So when I look into the future, I still... I see those 2 aspects you're gonna lean on your veterinarian for clear answers on some things. And just guidance on back to the basics of animal husband or Nutrition and those kinds of things because we we don't have the details figured out
again. Fred, what do you see coming? What's net? Well, follow up on Bob, 1 of my most cherished books is from my grandfather. It's from the early 19 hundreds at Usda book on cattle care. It is really interesting to read how they used to treat cattle, you know, pre antibiotic. You need, you know, pre calcium and all that stuff. So pretty cool. But you know, I think we're on the cusp of some major advances in both beef and dairy
production with using genomics and genetics. You you know, the University of Nebraska had some researchers that just produced the first B resistant calf using genomics. And you think about, you know, in the beef industry if we can produce disease resistant animals naturally, the impact that would have on productivity on welfare on health on antimicrobial stewardship. I think it's just huge.
And I also think that there's just big opportunities, you know, look at some of the differences between beef and dairy with 97 percent of the beef breed animals born cold and very few of the dairy breeds born cold, Huge if we could fix that with the genetic manipulation, I think that that is huge. And, you know, even some of the other things, can we produce a... If of male calf that doesn't grow test.
Boy. That'd be neat. I think all of those things are really gonna impact how we prevent disease as well as, manage cattle in in the future. I think 1 of the unfortunate things I was talking to a student. I said, you know, 1 of the unfortunate things about our own mortality is we're not gonna live long enough to see the really cool things that our grandchildren are gonna get a c. And they're they're some cool things coming in that space. Yeah. I think you're right. Those are those are
all great ideas. And and we may see more expansion in that area. Philip? What? So being nutrition. I'm gonna take it from a nutrition angle. Know, we're learning more and more about how the gut microbiome is related to different disease, processes or syndromes and things like that. And we do in humans, we do this a little bit, but I think Right now in livestock, our nutrition is based on performance. We're we're... We are formulating diets to get certain level
of performance. But I think as we move forward, we're gonna start doing more and more with nutrition to combat or prevent disease. So we're gonna be learning more and more about how we can formulate a diet to keep animals healthier. And I think a great point there on the microbiome. So for a long time, we've focused on individual, primarily pathogens. But now we're saying they're actually part of it their own environment, which I think is is great to think about both dietary
and for other health aspects. Dustin. Kinda following up, I think with what Fred was saying, technologies, just technologies that allow us to collect. More data, and we can do more, you know, analyses and whether it's real time or not, but coming from a, data coming from an economist is, you know, we like study data. Just the new technologies that are coming online that allows collect more data that we can maybe do some more real time, diagnosis or stuff like that. Think of all the graphs you'll
be able to make. I know honestly That's what you're excited about. Real Alright. Great great ideas for the future there, guys. And I think it's... It'll be fun to watch those develop. Now I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you guys some questions, and these are all short answer questions and anybody else can can jump in. But Fred, I'm gonna start with you. So X is a sedative that is used in cattle. And there has been some some questions about it recently. Maybe first outline the problem and
then tell us whether... What is the solution? Well, the the problem is is that X is being illegally imported and mixed into illicit drugs and people are, dying. From it. And so the approach from the Dea has been to schedule it, to increase penalties and enforcement And the concern is is that it's the only sedative that's effective in cattle. Many producers are probably familiar with their veterinarians using it to at 8 cattle, and it it's used extensively. It's cheap, and it's effective.
And, the concern is is that if it's if it's identified as a controlled substance, veterinarians may not have access to it anymore. Fat, it may put burden on manufacturers. There's only 2 companies make it. 1 said they'd quit making if it was scheduled. So, you know, our main concern is, number 1, protect the public health. We don't want you know, what to be diverted into or or illegally imported into the human, you know, drug crisis.
So is rampant it in this country. But number 2, we wanna make sure that veterinarians still have access to it, so they can, you know, safely work around cattle when needed. Yeah. And I think an important point there, that relative to... So si sedative for cattle, not for people, and the only time that it's being used there is in illicit drugs. And so that's the that's the problem. So certainly Appreciate that that you keep up on that part. Bob,
I wanted to ask you. So when we think about identifying a new person that I've gotta work with on the farm, be they maybe I need a new accountant, a new insurance agent, a new risk management person or somebody to work on my farm How do I identify the right person to work with? You know, this is obviously, every individual is different, but I think finding new talent is is an issue across all of our air agriculture. And so I'm looking at it from, So if I'm a cattle producer.
When you think of all the people that you rely on, you rely on, you know, your nutrition your veterinarian, the, you know, your life... It the market analyst or market a adviser. You know, So you've got a lot of people and sooner her later, some of those people are gonna turn over. You know. Somebody's gonna retire. You're gonna need a new 1.
And and I personally... I I like what I'm comfortable with, and I like the person that we've developed a relationship with So I guess 1 of the things that I guess I would say is we're gonna have the the work of developing a new relationship. And so you gotta find somebody that you can work with, somebody that has 2 things. The skill, and then the communication that that works 2 ways with you. And then be willing to be a good second partner. I mean, it it should be a win
win relationship. I'm I'm paying for their advice, and and they are supplying something to me. But I'm looking for... So I don't necessarily enjoy, but I should always be on the lookout for good talent for information and skills that I'm gonna need k. Excellent. And I think you're right. You developed that, kinda develop that relationship. Philip, time to put away round bales in many
areas. And so let's specifically as we think about putting away round bales, and I want to minimize was itch any tips? Yeah. So a couple of things related to... That'll help minimize the amount of stored hey that that is wasted or or not gonna be consumed by cattle once you put it out there. Is number 1, get it up off the ground. Put it on top... I've seen people put it on top of old pallet on top of both tires.
Some people will lay down a bed of 3 inch bigger 4 inch big rock that will let the water leach away, but get it off the ground so that moisture from the ground doesn't get pulled up into the bail. And then, spread your... The rows out and don't put them under shade trees or on the edge of the field, you want them in an open area and with space between the rows. So that the sun can get down between there. And dry things out after rain or snow melt to snow after snow and things like that. So that
we are again where we're getting moisture. So whatever you're you're just from the general principle perspective, whatever you can do to minimize the amount of moisture on that bail or was gonna help reduce the amount of hay was. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think you're you're key there's getting them off the ground and spreading them out, which a lot of times we don't wanna burn any more ground than we have to to have hay storage. Because basically, I
can't do anything else there. But leaving those gaps between, and you can easily tell do I have enough gap if I've got sunlight going back and forth. Right? And a lot of times you may want that row north south. Mh. The length wise so that you've got the sun going east west across every day. Yeah. That's true. Dustin, I'm gonna ask you and your your question a little bit different you since you work here at the University, you get interact with that lot of students.
And we often talk about generational differences. But if we want to hire somebody who's in a younger generation than what are some of the things that you say that I should be aware of or I should think about or maybe there's a generational difference that I should try to address? So, a couple years ago, I mean, the last few years, I was a director of grad studies. And so, you know, I tried to recruit students to come to K state grad program.
And what I noticed is when we would make offers or when I would wanna talk to students send an email, and I get response. Right? And we just go back and forth. The email, set up time to be a phone call then. But now it's Zoom. You know, probably 20 20, a little after 20 20, it just changed, and I couldn't get students, like, I would make them an offer, you know, assistant ship. We pay their salaries and tuition. And I they just ghost to me. You would not hear from them.
And was, like, that's odd. So finally, I had... And it's just... I think it was a generational thing. Finally, I had all their cell phone numbers because other applications. I started texting them, and they would reply right away. So I just started texting every single person. And then that go away outcome. Otherwise, I might not You just sent an email, no response. No response. Yeah. And so it just took a little while to figure that out. I just happened to start texting.
It's... And there are differences. And even that more effective than phone calls in in some situations. Yeah. And so for example, when people call me, and I only have a cell phone, I don't recognize the number. I don't pick it up. I will let them leave voice mail, and I'll call back, but if they don't leave a voice mail that I'm not gonna... Yep. And I've had some of those were working with students or you call, and it'll say,
voice mail not set up. Right? They're they're not even gonna get that call if it doesn't come through, but you text him and... Amp, Yep. They're right there. So I think I'll go back to your question, it probably a little different in every situation. But the newer or a different generation, it it they respond differently. They... And you just maybe you list talk to other people see what their experiences are on how to reach
out. To a different generation, how they how the communicates different and try to adapt, course... I mean, if you wanna survive, you gotta adapt, There's the key. You gotta adapt. Because otherwise, I mean, I could send them emails all day and get frustrated about it. But if that doesn't work, it doesn't make any sense to continue to do that. You had that experience recently too with some of our Missy grads where you said, hey, hey, this guy, I know was gonna respond to email,
the rest of my head to text. Yeah. It was an interesting. And and it was just a few years get a little bit older, young veterinarian responded immediately the email. All my younger, young veterinarians, they responded to tech. And so I did both. Yeah. And I think that's... A great point is adapting and on the figuring out what that communication is, and just ask Right? What... How do you how do you want
me to communicate with you? Because I think that could easily lead to misunderstandings that it might be perceived as rude or upsetting that somebody had done something, but they may not be checking their email. So Excellent. Appreciate those answers, guys. And Fred, I really appreciate you joining us, and he's with the American Association of Bo practitioner and has a podcast. Have you heard that I think is a great listen if you have a chance to get on and find that on itunes or Google Play?
Thanks, Fred for joining us, and thank you guys. You have further questions, things you'd like us talk about, You can send us an email at Bc at k u idiot.