I'm protesting. I'm not saying my name in vain. What? Oh my God. That every time I go ahead, he's Meek Azores and you say everybody's me. Hey, good. And then, we do the exact same thing at the beginning of the actual episode, and it's redundant and silly. I'm not doing Jimmy, do it. If we strike, remember, strike that really that really, I did the whole thing, I press the record button, I got some room sound, and I pointed at you, let
just say go, sure. And you didn't say The thing was weird, strike from saying hi. It's me. Katie asaurus, even though I'm sad for that three extra times in my strike. Well hello everybody. Welcome Back to infinite Quest. This episode. We're going to talk about reading but it goes gets her L where it gets real weird. Random talking about school, supply related trauma or and a bunch of other stuff trouble Trapper Keepers Luttrell of driver Keepers and and all that
stuff. So anyways, if you're interested in hearing about that stick around, I got absolutely nothing. Okay, well then screw it. Let's just short and sweet baby. Yeah we have a patreon. Yeah transition. Hey everybody, it's me Katie storage and it's me. Hey good and welcome back to infinite Quest Eric. I really good joke to start this. We got hey I was going to do the butterfly in the sky. I can go twice as high.
Hi look it's in a book Reading Rainbow and that's all we can say because otherwise we'll get hit with copyright. Can we get that much? I, the estate of our Bird. That's where we gonna find cast. We just put it as a mini copyright strikes again. Yeah. Song like LeVar Burton. Notice us plz. Love you so much. Thank you for my childhood. Oh God, what if he actually listens to this help?
Oh God, I think that would work if we just get 10 billion copyright strikes against that and we're like real Rubber and save us, we're all human. Let me just like the song in The Barbarians like no. And then he comes in the punches. You want some of our II? I would not question it for a second. If you looked at me and all seriousness was like yeah LeVar Burton was given the gift of flight for being a faultless soul. I'd be like, yeah, believe of
course you can fly like. So let's I would absolutely believe that one hundo percentage. It's him mr. Rogers Bob Ross and Steve Irwin. Yep, I'll just flying around up. There have a little private T-shirt with all of them on it and it says the Four Horsemen of wholesomeness oh, oh, that's probably why I have those in my head. Probably were just flopping around on there. It's it's a Bad Touch t-shirt
though. It's one of those t-shirts were bought it and then it came and the teacher feels gross. So I can't ever wear it, but I like the picture on it. That's a shame. I know I already said so why? Why is it that you brought up by Reading Rainbow K? Because today's episode is brought to you by the letter R for reading. Oh yeah. That was the Sesame street drug because I also want to be on Sesame Street. Yeah. Oh yeah. Big Bird's. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna I'm all out of the park today.
This is great. This is called We are. I built a little yeah for context everybody. I built a little sound tent thing to try to make a little collapsible noise, boo thing and it doesn't doesn't really work. I think it's because the cardboard vibrates and so it sort of acts like a sounding board even though there's dampening foam on it. I just you know, a lot about sound. So let me know no II saw, you know, about vibrations vibranium my brain. Oh yeah dude what do you know about vibranium?
It's some metal is really expensive. Fictional. Its fictional is vibrating fictional. I generally don't know. Is that like real Element? No, not exactly. How the fuck did that? It's really hard to go. Tain. Oh wait, you guys have a great idea. I really really hard to get metal is what we're going to call it really hard to get him. No, that's too hard, that's too obvious. What about unobtanium? Anyway, here you want to talk
about reading and ADHD? I do well, I mean I do when I don't but I'm realizing because I have to I have to do reading for this you know, I reading ADHD books and stuff like that, right? And Looking back throughout my tenure, as a human reading. I can I can see the red flags of my ADHD throughout my reading career.
Like every time I had to read for school, I mean I can read like, you know, signs and stuff like but I have to sit down and read make a bunch of noise while you talk with my channel yet, please. Thank you so much. Anyone tap on the table, we're going to lean on table or more you, some of that, I feel like the people whose money of the story. The fuck is, just the story of us. Lowly hating each other? Well, you can just hear, no, I'm No, that's not gonna happen.
I love you very much. I'm sorry. I always felt like the things that were difficult about school and I mean, my, my, my I was reading is intrinsically tied to my relationship to school because so when I mean, when I say reading a donut really mean like reading like a sign, you know, like I don't have dyslexia but sitting down and reading something and having it download into my brain is always been extremely difficult for me.
I usually have to read a given paragraph several times at least more than once, just because full for a number of reasons of a big one for me. Is I'm very audio sensitive, like I'm very aware of noises that are happening. And so if there's any noise happening, all every little noise is a crystallization point or jumping off point for my thg to be like, what was that? I wonder what sound that could make it. I make an instrument out of that or something. So there's that.
So earplugs have helped me a lot in the department and another one is sometimes I can well I cannot be thinking about reading while reading Expound if I sit and I'm reading and I go, hey, look at me, I'm reading, I'm fucked like I'm screwed one because I won't notice that I'm thinking that until after I've scanned a page and realize I didn't actually read any of it.
So I can't be thinking about reading while I'm reading which sucks because as I've noticed, more and more that my relationship with reading is strange, I'm more likely to You like, look at me, I'm reading good for me, self high five. So that another one is, sometimes when I reach the end of a sentence, I will have forgotten the first part of the sentence and so, it's like, oh, shit. And I go back and I read the verse, right? And it just keeps happening over and over and over again.
And then, as I get more frustrated, it gets worse and it all tumbles out. One thing I can read without a problem are like page-turner action, novels like Jack Reacher, Robert Ludlum. This the boys, I've ever heard you say? What they're great. I love him so much. Strike me as a John Quincy type of fellow really? Yeah. Well I love them. They're just like, that's great. Help me save the world. Meow, it's great. How do you? I've never admittedly.
I've never read one of those books are fantastic. And I have a lot of questions about how you translate, like an action movie to the page because it's sort of like, a reverse action movie. You're like, it's like the novelization, you know. Yeah. Yes. I think like Jack Reacher turn. Around in the window broke. I don't know. Looks like it's you don't need to worry about the shot. I think. Yeah. So or like special effects or anything like so your budget is
just infinite, you know? So that's pretty cool. You can have like buildings closed explode or whatever like yeah, there's literally no restraints on what can happen because of a shot. You can't get a massage me. Cool. Was you know what's cool about movies is now computers exist and so you can just do whatever you want. It's true.
Did you know weird? So we went from like oh we can't possibly ever really do make this movie to like oh we can just literally have portals to everywhere open up in the middle of nothing, save the world. So we're Buster Keaton's like Jesus Christ. I do I jumped onto a fucking train but those books I can read because it's not so much like integrating and understanding and downloading like Concepts behind. What's being said because that's all to me. What it's like.
It's like the words are words, but the words are referring to concept. So what I'm what's helps me as well? When I read about a thing is thinking of the concepts behind the words, but if it's like a page-turner, then it's just like, he walked down the street and I'm like, yeah. When's, when you read your action movie books, do you, do you picture it? Are you able to, like, picture it in your head? Oh, yeah. Most definitely. Yeah. It's all. It's all very clear up in the old Cabeza.
I do not have that. The a Fantasia. You don't have a vintage to do. You do we do? Oh my gosh. What's that? Like we've never talked about this? No. Well we actually just talked about in my twitch stream is morning, but ya know we have ever talked about, I have I have like a very odd experience with a Fantasia because I can picture stuff but like it is either everything or or pieces like I don't have.
Like if you told me to like picture like a purple Apple which is always like the example that they use, I can like picture like the concept of purple, like I can picture the The Color Purple. Kind of I can picture like Picture, like, the way that I, the best way that I can explain. It is like, if you picture, like imagine somebody was like filming a dream sequence where they were trying to like convey the idea of an apple. That is what I see in my head.
So I don't see like, the, like the like an apple fruit. I see like the shape of the top of an apple, and like a leaf and sunlight and like, like a bite taken out of it out, but I can't make like the Apple like purple in my head unless I like really, really think about it. It but in reading it really depends if it's a really really good book that I have. Like I can, I can picture it but that sort of like will get. I mean, we'll get into like fiction versus nonfiction later
but like yeah. It's like a whole thing where like I can't really picture stuff that seems like an apple deconstructed. Yeah. It's like it's like all of all of the stuff that I pictures like deconstructed or hyper hyper specific and there's and it's weird. I've never been able to figure out like what the sort of like cattle This is for that because like I'll be you know, like when I'm dming or something.
I'm not, it's not written down. Like if it's written down, I can't picture it. But like, if I'm thinking about it, I'm like, okay, like like on my twitch stream one time I was talking about like, like I was making up some stupid shit on my twitch but I was talking about like a law office, I'm like I could see it. Like I was like I was picturing in my head, I was picturing this sort of like very like cinematic scene, but it's weird because I either see like flashes Has and
dream sequences or, like a very concrete like cinematic play-by-play, but there's no like in between it's bizarre. So, it's like, if it's, if it's born in your head, then you can do it. But you can't like take it from. Yeah, yeah. That might be like a good way of saying it is because like, if somebody's like, we'll picture this and I'm like, no, but if I'm just like, you know, like oh you walk into like an enchanted forest. I'm like, I have an idea of what that Enchanted Forest looks
like, it's very strange, huh? And I've never heard anybody talk about him. That way either. Someone was just like, Weird one, huh? Well also, so one of the reasons I wanted to talk about reading is because you and I have a very different relationship to read. I know, I'm I was kind of nervous for this episode when you suggested it. Well, it's one of those. It's one of our biggest differences. Yeah, is are different, are different relationship with reading because you were a massive mr.
I also would like to point out that I was about, to make a Ravenclaw versus Slytherin joke, and we are literally wearing blue and green right now we totally wearing a fucking silver. And I say things like, my father, Either my Potter Potter picture that I bet that's a visual reference. Everybody's true. I couldn't possibly explain Potter but you were a you learn to read very early. Yes. And you liked it and you did it. They did.
I did a funzies. A lot of words, what kind of in your earliest memories of reading reading? What? Reading reading storybooks, are you reading nonfiction books, where you read coffee table books? Um, My very first book I ever read was when I figured out how to read was a book of children's bible stories that my grandma had like just like around the house for some reason, but then like I would just I would read like everything. It was mostly stories.
I didn't get into like nonfiction until like high school and then it turned out that I actually like nonfiction a lot more than Fiction. Like I'm weirdly picky about fiction now but like growing up. I mean like I read the Your children's section of my library. By the time I was like 12 Jesus and so like your little wheelbarrow. We're wagon. Yeah, that's wonderful. Yeah but I mean I would I would
just read everything. I would read like Sweet Valley twins in The Baby-Sitters Club, you know like all those like sort of like why a like series books I was really into Nancy. Drew who love Nancy Drew. I have a complete set of the original like vintage Nancy Drew at home. I'm proud of those because someday they're going to be worth a lot of money. Money. And yeah, but then I also have a very specific memories of like,
seeking out nonfiction as well. Like, I remember going to the library and because I decided, I wanted to be a magician and I've talked about that before, but I remember getting the book about magic that was like, one of the first like nonfiction books that I read my dad had a lot of books about war. Like I do a weird amount about Winston Churchill because my dad had all like my dad was a dad. And so he was like legally obligated at Michelle for like WWII bunker.
Like at home and so, yeah. So so I realized that. Yeah, I mean, I cannot stress enough, like, I read everything. Like, I read everything, and I went through this really, like, douchebag pretentious face when I was like, seven where I was like, I'm going to read all the classics.
And so I remember very specifically being on like, a family vacation when I was like eight or nine, and I was reading, Anna, Karenina. And like, the guy at that, like the, the concierge, at the hotel, like, saw me reading in the lobby, and he's like, what are you doing? It's like, I'm reading this book. It's about Russia and the winter and he was like, you're on vacation. What are you doing that? This river that. But yeah, no, you know what?
You know that now about ADHD and the fact that you have it Do you recognize anything about your relationship to reading? That is in any way related to ADHD? I thought you could question because because because for me when I think of reading my ADHD they're right next to each other. Yeah and it's a negative relationship but also with ADHD comes hyper-focus which may speak for you. Yeah. I mean I think that's that's what I mean.
The I mean I guess the real answer is it was probably hyper-focus of some kind like I would go through phases of like I'm going to read every fucking Nancy Drew book. Like I would read but it's also Very important caveat and I need to say this and I know that it sounds pretentious but I am an
exceptionally fast reader. Yeah, it is important to quantify the rest of what I talked about in this podcast, by saying that I am an exceptionally weirdly fast reader can I, I don't want to embarrass you but just for context, I think it is important to understand that you're an extremely fast reader. So like, you know, a 300-page now, Oval just a page, turning a little novel. If you had to read that as fast as you could. How long do you think it would take probably an hour an hour?
I mean, it also depends on the book because I do the same thing that you were talking about earlier is all forget the end of the sentence. And so, my time is like, it's weird because I have an exceptionally fast reader but my time is often slowed, not that I'm timing myself but it's slowed by the fact that like I'll read Because I read like paragraphs at a time, like I don't read words every
paragraphs and so I'll forget. Like, you know, because I'll be like, thinking about something or whatever, and I'll still be reading, then I'll my mind will wander. And I realize I've read, like five pages and I've no concept of like, what was actually being discussed.
So that's that's fun. I also want to be clear when you talk about how fast you read my say Jesus, I don't mean to be like you're a Freer. I just, it's just, I'm honestly really used to it like it, like it's been people being weirded out by how fast I read has been like a strangely large part of my academic experience like, to the point where, like I'm Early used to people like watching me read and blankets from his, it's
amazing. I remember when we were in the book Nook in that Airbnb and California, you're like me and you picked out a book from the shelf and I was watching, we were watching a Gordon Ramsay Kitchen Nightmares, and like an episode went by, and you're like, that was good and you light glows in. Put it back on the thing, what that's crazy. How does that buying books? I couldn't afford it? Yeah. All right, item hyper-focus week in high school.
I've always been fascinated by speed reading because I've always been into an insanely slow reader. I mean, I want to say, I don't know what how slow like insanely slow is, but if I read, if I'm reading well like my Peak reading, if I'm focused, if I'm reading I read about his quickly as I talk, maybe a little slower than that because I'm like narrating dramatically, you know.
So I'm like talking walked up to in my I think my overall my time is slower than that because I have to read things twice very frequently. So if I want to know the contents of a book that's like easily a month easily a month and it's a shameful month, it is embarrassing, I'm embarrassed for myself, you know, because I mean, in every movie ever the
smart kid was a reader. Just, I mean, we sort of like a caricature of you when you were like in every piece of media ever, the the smart kid is a really fast reader and can like You know, so what Spencer Reid from Criminal Minds and we're well I remember there's a singing There's a scene where he broke the criminalizes a TV show.
It's like a it's like a crime solving show and there's a guy named Spencer Reid on it was one of the investigators and he's like a genius and at some point, he brings up. Oh yeah, there's a book on that subject. You know, I'll go find it and read it. It'll take like 10 minutes and he says, he'll take you 10 minutes to find that book. He says no to read that book.
And I was just like, oh, that's so fucking cool, I don't want to do that, but I've always felt that that deep knowledge that I want about things, you know, not just like the surface. I've skimmed an article about would be like the Deep knowledge. I've always felt very distant from that like there's a huge gate between me and it because it takes me so exceptionally long to read a book about it.
So like I, for example, I got a book called The ADHD explosion which is great, read it, dear listener. But I've been reading that book For like a month and a half and I read it decently frequently like it's not like you know, every once every two weeks I read a little but it's just his that's how long it takes me to read. And after, you know, after about three or four pages, my brain starts do that, what's outside, what's downstairs?
There's you're missing something, you're missing, something you're missing something and it just gets overwhelming in the longer. I fight it off the worse it gets and if I notice it, it gets worse and So it's sort of this weird. I don't know Catch-22 is the applicable term here. But the more I try to solve the problem, the more it inflates because it draw it gets worse
with attention. And so, the only times that I'm able to read a for long periods of time is if I am completely unaware of the fact that I'm reading, which is strange, it's a very strange thing. I mean, very often times, you know, I mean, I think everybody experiences this when you're reading a book and you're reading through Page and you get to the end of the page and you realize I didn't read any of those words that's just giving. Paige what triggers that is.
When I notice that I'm reading when I'm observed, when I observe myself, like I felt about myself and we'll like look it look at Eric, he's reading that's cool. Like a baby looks really smart if somebody were to, you know, see him or something like that. But anyways, I that's why I think I was. So I'm so fascinated by speed reading because that would be just the most amazing thing in
the world. She just look at a book and be like, oh, this is a book that talks about how ADHD relates to crime or something like that and be able to just take the afternoon and then know what's in that book because for me, I've, that would be getting the book and that would be a month and a half of like, being mad at myself for not being a faster reader. And I know it's strange
language. That's why I'm so fascinated by the fact that you can speedrun because it's like, holy shit, you know, like if we have a podcast guest on and they wrote a book, you know, I would of course want to read that. Book before they came on but that would mean I would need to have a month whereas you could buy it and do it in a day. I was so not that this matters but it does to me.
But like I don't speed read, that's different because speed reading is like a purposeful thing that you do. I think I'm pretty sure that I can count. Like, because I always get really uncomfortable. When people say that I'm a speed reader because like speed Wears, Like practice really hard and they like work really hard to like, learn like special techniques. And so like for me I always feel like I'm in validating the work that goes into speed-reading. If I'm like yeah I'm a I'm a
speed reader. I'm like no I just read fast and I feel like there's a difference. Did you know that? It matters but I'm like just do. Sorry. If you're a speed reader respect for terminology. Did you accelerate in your in your reading speed? Like where you actually? I mean, yes, and I know when so weird. It's so weird that you asked that because when I lost my ovary that was when I lost a lot of my Speed. I used to be a lot faster, really?
Yeah, and it's because I lost so much ability to focus like the ability to focus that I had, that went like, when the hormonal shift happened. And so, like there was a lot of like there's it was that was one of the worst Parts because it like, I'm an actor. I mean, I don't know if I an
actor still. I don't know how that works you're in it. But like, I mean, you know, like especially being a train Shakespeare person, 99% of the job is reading Shakespeare and then like, you know, sometimes you get to stand on stage and say it, but like there's a lot of the job that is just reading Shakespeare memorizing. Shakespeare and there's an efficiency that needs to be there and there's like systems and stuff.
You know that our that I hadn't place and and when I wanted losing my ovary like and my ADHD is like really got worse. I lost a lot of that and so it was weird. And I mean, it was one of the reasons why I sought a diagnosis because that was one of the big indicators that something was wrong. I was like, I'd never not been able to sit down and read an act of a play.
I never sat down and tried to memorize a monologue and gotten, you know, five lines out of 20 before I like was bored or you know and then that was weird and um and honestly like, you know, oh poor me. I can't read as fast but I still read enormously fast but like there I really feel like kind of a sense of loss. For it. Because I used to be able to sit down and read a book and, you know, one sitting and I still can, but it's a lot more rare and it doesn't happen as frequently.
But also I've been thinking a lot about this and I and like, this is such a common thing with gifted kids. This isn't even necessarily like an ADHD thing. This is just like a, I think a very, very common experience of people who are like burnt out, get tickets.
But like we don't really Danny more like what I shouldn't say we but like I don't really read any more like I'll read, you know, if I'm like want to learn something about ADHD and like I read a lot of nonfiction but like I think for a lot of gifted like burnt out gifted kids, the joy of reading was sucked out of us by like the demands of being an academically gifted person especially with an undiagnosed neurodivergent. See because you're constantly sort of like burning that candle
at both. Both ends in terms of like being academically talented, but also like, struggling with a undiagnosed or divergency, like, I don't, I don't relief. I used to love reading. I used to like, it was one of my favorite things, like, I would read and read, and read, and read and like every summer like, was I remember, I remember the books I read every summer, you know, I remember the Harry Potter years. I remember though, Bill Alana years, I Remember The Baby-Sitters Club, the gears.
I remember the year that I did scary stories to tell in the dark and I was so fucking Scared of the artwork but like I don't
have that anymore. I don't like reading like I I still like Shakespeare I like the musicality of the verse and I think I've you Shakespeare's more like performative, then like literature which I think is maybe one of the reasons why I stuck with it and I like reading nonfiction about Shakespeare like academic papers and stuff about Shakespeare but like I haven't picked up like a novel probably five years. I think the last novel I read was like the night sir.
Otis. And the only reason I read it with because somebody was like, you have to fucking read this book. It's so good and I did and I was like, yeah, it's a book, I think, you know, and so yeah, I mean it's weird because a lot of my A lot of my emotions toward
reading are like nostalgic. Hmm. And a lot of my feelings towards reading are also I think encompassed by ADHD all-or-nothing thinking which is really silly but like I know like I'm a smart smart person and like I know that I'm not going to be able to read every book and so I just was like, well then what's the point and that's silly, that's silly to deprive myself. Of something like, you know, reading and enjoyment discovering like good stories and stuff like that.
But like I just, I was like, well, I'm never going to read every book so I might as well just give up and because reading is no longer something that I do for fun. And so, yeah, I really weird relationship with reading, would you say the point in time the line where I don't want to say you? Well, I'm going to put the, I know that the way that I'm about to Hey, this is not necessarily the exactly correct way of saying this but I think you can
understand what I mean. Yeah. Did you stop reading when you're when you lost your ovary in the homeowners flow shift? Oh no. Losing the way before that or the way before that. Yeah. What can you identify any point? Any significant Point around, you know, high school, high school, high school. I mean, I stopped reading for fun. During high school and then College, I, you know, like I'd pick up a book here and there or whatever. But College was the shift
between fiction and nonfiction. Hmm. And then I think part of it was like from fiction to nonfiction fiction and nonfiction. Yeah. And then you know and then I went To grad school where I just read because it was what I had to do for schools is spoilers. If you're starting Elizabethan England, there's a lot of reading that you have to do because there's no, like practicum. So like I just read and read and read and read like academic stuff and so, yeah.
So like that was that was like the and that was when I just was like, tired of reading and I was tired of Yeah, I think I just, you know, I very obviously, got burned out in grad school but yeah, that was that, that's it. So, would you say it's a fair assessment to say, as academic demands ramped up and you were expected to read more? The Joy slowly got sucked out. Oh yeah, absolutely got sucked out and when they feel like fucking studies on that to like, that's not, that's, that's so
common. Like, that's so common with people in like, you know, act like a Cadet like Academia but also, just like kids who go through Through gifted programs. Like we see that pattern a lot is, is kids. Sort of give up on pleasure reading. And it's and it's I think it's kind of sad. Yeah, I think reading is really nice. Oh, how it looked really good. I you made it to the center. Yeah, I was. So, I was like, I meant to say to do it. No, I'm gonna do it again,
ready. Okay. Oh, hi. Hey, welcome. Closer to the center of the episode. We look at that. Congratulations here is the episode, I'm keeping the sake of keeping the steak, get some water be night, beating water, stand up, and stretch your legs or something. Eat a bagel. It's hard too much about the house AD school supplies. Make us. And now we're slap-happy well, that isn't happened yet. They're only in the middle of the episode of the episode watch.
I make a really cool induction. Heater analogy was great. You guys, he explains what it is. Sheeter is very well. Yeah, speaking of page, Each round we do have a patreon, it's total bitch on dicom they trying to come /. Infinite Quest if Don't support our mission of educating about it each day and advocacy and whatever. The hell this is head on over there and you get your name in a cool song to that's pretty cool.
And also, if you want glasses, you can buy them at Sea little.com and if you use code, Katie, oh, they're not going to give you 15 percent off your order because I hit a million followers. Now, I'm top shit. Wow. Bujji how do you spell it to do? You didn't spell ETA e. O0 know how do you spell Z? LOL cata. Okay. This is very strange. ELO hell.com, we should delete this. Now we're using it. Okay. He's it transition. Well, I think we kind of did this backwards but we did.
I hear you have some science for skating. I do we. Absolutely I probably should have done this. So yeah, I have some interesting, scientific facts said the academic of the group. So what's really interesting? When I was speaking of research when I was researching for this episode, One of the things that I found is that the studies about the relationship between like learning difficulties or learning disorders and ADHD or very inconclusive. But they are like consistently
inconclusive which is funny. And what I mean by that is that there's absolutely link there's absolutely link between like the comorbidity of like ADHD and like a learning disorder of some kinds but the numbers depending on the study range wildly.
Which is interesting. So the numbers that I found and some of these are averaged in some of these are like pulled from direct studies but about twenty to fifty percent of people with ADHD have some sort of learning disorder whether that's dyslexia dyscalculia, which someday I'm going to be able to say right you know there's like nonverbal learning there's dysgraphia which is like trouble with like handwriting that kind of thing and there's like several others as well.
But even more interestingly, I think than that, is the fact that for people who have one for people who have like one learning disorder, 20 to 70 percent of those people have some other learning disorder as well. So like if you have you know dyslexia you have a between 20 and 70 percent chance of also having like nonverbal learning or like dyscalculia or I'm like that.
So like there's a connection between the actual like, learning disorder, as much as there is between ADHD and whatever, does that kind of make sense? Yeah. Yeah. I suppose it does. And so like, so then on top of that about 3, the number sort of work out to be about 3 in 10. People with dyslexia also have ADHD just different than three and ten people with ADHD. Also having dyslexia it's sort of like ADHD It takes only 20 percent of people with tech savvy DHD but not the other way around.
Yeah. But if you have ADHD, you are six times more likely to have a learning disorder than like the neurotypical population, but the repercussions of that Eric. Are you interested? Oh yes. Would you like to hear? Or I would love to. Okay, so obviously, so so there's been a lot of studies on like well what what's the big deal? What's what's the impact of like not? Being able to read well or right well or math. Well and it's really interesting and it's kind of upsetting.
So just Buckle in for this because what, because what they've done is they've got a lot of studies on the connection between learning disorders and what that means for like, later
in your life. And so we, so obviously there is the academic component, we seek statistically across the board, people with learning disorders, struggle, when school more, and they struggle with graduation rates, especially Like, going into college, especially like the Dropout rates for people with dyslexia and dyscalculia are much higher, but even more than that Eric, mmm, I don't know. I keep aggressively saying Eric, but there is a psychological
component to that. We see that people who struggle, especially people, who struggle with undiagnosed learning disorders. Have a much more statistical likelihood of addiction. They have a more statistical likelihood of suicide and self-harm. And then also, on top of that pile of shit, there is also
statistics and science studies. That shows that people with learning disorders, wind up across their lifetime, making less money and getting less advancements in the workforce than people without which then sort of circles back on itself in terms of like psychological and academic success, it's not great. Damn. Yeah, I mean it sounds fun, research just kept getting
sadder and sadder and sadder. That's one of those things that like I suppose if you sat in an armchair and thought about it, you could reason those things out. Yeah. But then knowing that their measurably true it's like these studies and like there was like a lot of me was like well, yeah, no shit.
But then you're like, okay, well at least like there are studies to back this up but I Think what that shows more than anything is like again, sort of like the thing that we talk about all the time is that it's not just something that affects seven-year-old boys in the back of the classroom. Like we are seeing repercussions into your 20s or 30s, your 40s or 50s or 60s because of the sociological and economic impact
of these. And that is completely disregarding the disproportionate way in which neurodiversity effects. Like people of Color and marginalized communities. It's just and it's gets to the point sometimes with with topics like this, where it just gets so big and then I just get so angry because it's just, it's just so
much. Yeah, I mean that's why I feel blessed and cursed in but ultimately grateful about doing what we do because we get to talk to a lot of people who are those statistics, you know those those numbers they're the people that make those decisions. We are the people that make those Ethics. And it's important to remember that. Well, it's important to remember at some point, but it's also hard to do in the moment when you're reading these studies. That those percentages are
people. Yeah. And these measurable things are valid and very important to know. But ultimately what we're talking about is what is it like in a person's brain? You know and it's I find it very interesting that As we get more and more into the macro and, as well, as more, and more into the microbe individual people. It's interesting to see like, oh, this is an example of that statistic. I see it in my sis myself all the time was weird too, because
it's so we're recording this. In September in September is suicide, awareness month and October is ADHD awareness month. So like we're in for a busy couple of months. Yeah, cheese. But the thing, especially, they get to me with conversations about learning disorders.
Is you looking you go? Okay so you're like letters switch around like Big fucking deal but it's like no like that has a profound impact on people and how they navigate through the world because like many neurodivergent sees, you know, there's like sort of like a spectrum of like, how profoundly is going to affect you. But the thing that sticks with me a lot and sort of like content warning this moment, but like the study is about suicide exist because somebody died.
Yeah, you know someone died from suicide like More people died from suicide during the studies. And it's like that was a person that was a person who is struggling with something and it's like, and it was like reading, you know, and it's something that like so many people take for granted. I mean, I take it for granted like absolutely and so it's just
it's really, I don't know. I feel like this is one of those episodes where we're like, oh, everything about ADHD is terrible, but I feel like it's really important to talk about that to talk. About the fact that like this kind of stuff affects people's lives in ways that like, on the surface, you might not ever understand but but you know, like exactly what you were talking about, you know, like your relationship to reading. Like, if you hadn't had the
support, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I think balancing the human component of it, remembering these statistics or people is of I mean ineffable importance. And I think, you know, I think that's why I'm so grateful to be a part of this because there are a lot of books, written a lot of studies to read that talk about things in that statistical way. If you know, you're more likely
to have an eating disorder. If you have ADHD, you're more likely to become addicted to something at some point in your life, if you have ADHD and those are all very important things to know and read about but equally important is talking to one of those those percentages that one of those people and trying to understand how that actually works in a person's head because well, for example, I have ADHD and lots of things that I can
notice about. The the less healthy areas of my brain, whether that's, you know, my clinical depression which is a diagnosable thing or just feelings of shame that come up at seemingly random times or feelings of anger that come up at seemingly random times. When I follow those, when I grab onto that weird random feeling of anger that I felt in the car. If I go, whoa, I just got really angry, what just happened?
Oh, there was an ad in the ad said, back to school has been happening a lot, because back to school season, Happen. But using an example or is this a real thing? This really happened. Okay. But yeah, no, I was in the car because I have a car now. Thank you. Thank you, patreon. I can get to work now with how can you having to get up and
come pick me up, thank you. But oh yeah, I was I was in the car was coming, here was the morning and there was an ad for back-to-school sale, it at Target or something like that about friends. And this also happened to be when we went to Staples to pick up the that Banner, but the concept or the the phrase As back to school, I immediately just had a panic response, really? Like, I don't know, I wouldn't call it anger or it was just my whole but everything just became a lot.
Like you felt my heart racing greet, my heart rate, increase my in that, in such a way that, I mean, in such a way that, you know, it for one who struggle person, who struggles with interpolation. You might not really notice that you might just let that pass. But you know, I talk about mental health for a living, so I try to keep up with it and so I felt that I was like, whoa, what the hell just happened?
I thought about pulling over and I was like, well I need to sit in this moment because all those moments are all data points for for myself. Like what? Just happens, there's something that causes their smell and there was an ad for it. I think it was Target but I don't know. It was an ad for some back-to-school sales someplace else like holy shit back to school and I grabbed that and I followed it back and I fold it back and I felt it back. And I remember Going to Staples.
But at the beginning of every school year in August, or September or whatever, it was with my mom and we'd go through and, you know, in third grade to give you a little list of those files - yes, we gone through the list and we're putting all these things and as we're doing it, you know, I didn't clock this at the time because I was a kid, but looking back the whole time. The when we would grab a, the different colored folders my head is going, oh, wow! They're different colors.
So you can organize the Colors by Object. I'm not going to do that. Those are going to get filthy. Those are going to get ripped and torn in a month, but I'm going to be ashamed of that. So I'm just going to leave them in my backpack so I don't you my teacher doesn't notice that I ripped and tore all these folders. And so my backpack is now just going to become a graveyard, just Dad school supplies and then the pencils and pens.
And then the one of the biggest ones in this all sounds very trivial, but it was very real to me were pencil boxes. Those plastic will clamshell look in pencil box. Oh, yeah, like that. Yeah. Yeah, you can almost you can almost smell them with a little circle things on texture on top. I don't think I could like, I'm like, feeling my cancer don't feel right now. That's what that was the most useful that I got out of them was rubbing most herbs on top, but I saw that and I met again.
This was now I'm starting to when we were in Staples. Yeah, I saw that. And I felt shame and anger and guilt. And I felt like I need to leave this room right fucking now. Because that was the thing. That would be a symbol of my shittiness throughout my school has two career. Was, I guess Scholastic career has been. In fact, it doesn't matter. That's right. It was dirty.
It was filthy, it would eventually win a little hinges would break because I would throw it in my backpack or, you know, I had poor motor inhibition, so I would knock it off, my desk all the time, but all those school supplies would eventually become evidence for me being a shitty shitty. Shit student. And consequently, a shitty person in my head. All that's what all those things were. This is this, I can.
So this even just the smell of them in the feeling of like that smooth outside of a folder, and how its thicker on one side. Because it folds over, you know, and the little times table on the inside, like all of that, all of that is connected. So closely to shame. And so, in my car, all of a sudden, I felt this immense, feeling of anxiety, and all that. And it was just because they said that the phrase back to school, Cool. Oh something Heaven. They said the phrase back to
school on the radio. Thanks for sharing that with me, of course, and and you dear listener, but the all that is to say that the statistics are deeply important, of course, they are. But all of those, all the people that were surveyed or all this data, that was taken for the each one of those people that played out some, in some way, the, the play out that, you know, a kid in school who has trouble sitting still, or, has trouble. Quietly reading what everybody else is reading.
Hi, that's me. Hello, you know, it's that kid. If they have any HD which, you know, let's say they do is twice as likely to experience addiction issues in their lives, you know, that's true but that's going to play out in a way because that kid is a person that kid is going to meet a friend and that friend is going to smell and is very specific way and they're going to associate the the lingering smell of cigarettes with their cool friend that they want to be
like. So now all of a sudden there Building this association between the smell of cigarettes and being mature and interesting and so all the sudden they smoke one in a think so. Huh. And they don't know that their brain is going dopamine. That was fucking great. Let's do that again. Suddenly you know Ten Years Later they're in rehab for the second time or something like that.
It all plays out in a way. And so I think that's kind of why dear Katie so many of our episodes that are supposed to be about subjects eventually zoom out to be more farmers. General. Because my relationship with reading is what it is, but it's indicative of a bunch of shit.
Most of which I'm probably not aware of yet because I have a, I haven't unpacked it yet, I'm working on it, but I think that's and I think that's, that's, that's, it's kind, it's almost frustrating as a person who talks about ADHD for a living because it's so everything. It's so everywhere. I just had a conversation with Ben silver. It's, this has been silver on Tick-Tock at this has been silver.
That episode will be published fuel be listening to some Thursday, so tomorrow that on Friday. But we were taught having a conversation. And I told a joke, I told a joke that I think is really Indicative of how sometimes things are so everywhere that they're impossible to notice. So you dear listener will have to listen to me. Tell this joke in two episodes in a row but here we go. The joke is two young fish are
swimming along in the ocean. When an older fish swims by and the older fish says, hey boys, how's the water after a moment, the two Fisher. Keep swimming after a moment. One of them turns the other and says what the fuck is water? And I think that's fucking hilarious. It's a good joke. Awesome that joke on our back.
And probably I mean, I think about it all the time, but I think it's important because I think some of the most profound and important realities of Life are so fucking everywhere that it's easy to forget about them. And I think ADHD is a lot is water and in that way that my ADHD profoundly affects every single part of my life in always has, so it's hard to notice and it takes a lot of effort to sit and think go.
Oh wow. The fact that I'm out almost having a panic attack in my car at a Target ad, right now is linked to all the times when I was sitting in school and we would have quite reading time. And everybody else is sitting there reading and I'm just like, oh my God, these Pages smell really interesting. What is this page smell
different than the other ones? And I would rub I can still, you know, I can, I can feel now the feeling of twiddling with like the corners of the pages between my fingernails. That's what I was doing the whole time instead of reading and I got down, like I would hear another person, turn a page and I would try to turn a page. In a tournament so that they would think that I was reading when there was shameful because then we got to talking about the Reading part and I hadn't done
anything. I tried for a couple years but eventually I gave the fuck up. I was like I'm just going to pretend to read you know for sister and eventually you start to have doing reading again but so reading is not just reading for me. It's it's a connection to a feeling of shame that is, you know, that started when I learned to read. Reid and I wish I mean I like re I like reading and every well, I like it ever reading and every single way, except in act, I think the concept of reading is
fascinating. I think the fact that humans invented, you know, we can Mark papers in such a way that we can describe entire well, I think every part of it is deeply fascinating to me and interesting and I love it except for doing it. It's almost strange. It's almost like it feels like being a chef, you know, of King Midas or a shaft or something like that.
At, you know, but every time he tried to eat it, would turn to gold in his mouth, so he can't actually do it, but he loves, you know, that kind of feels like that and it's really frustrating. It's really frustrating cause I
love reading. I mean, when I do read a couple pages and if I manage to read a couple pages, I mean, I chew on them for a long time, which I think is in some way a benefit of all this that, you know, I imagine if you read an entire book in an hour, it all hits your brain, largely all at once.
Whereas Since I can only read for 20 minutes at a time on a good day that whatever I read in that 20 minutes is now just like, in my head and I'm thinking like, holy shit like the scientologists smeared ADHD, like in the late 1900s. That's weird. That's true story. We'll talk about them judgment different episode, but, yeah, I
don't know. I I guess I don't know if I originally had a point or anything like that, but I just think it's important to remember that the tendencies that we bring up and the statistics that we bring up about people with ADHD or more likely to have this happen, or have this disorder, that every single one of those is a person that in, that plays out in their lives and that person I don't know. Deserves happiness just like everybody else. I don't know. I don't know.
It's hard to read statistics when you're That close to it. You know, it's almost like you can't or else you won't be able to, but I'm really glad I didn't open with my story about how much I like shopping for school supplies. Did you like what it? Hey, dude, loves gold Supply so much. Why did you like I like the the problems that I was incurring in, you know, in third grade shopping for schools? Is the same that I do now. Yeah it's like I can see how a folder is insanely.
Fucking useful all its color coded that's brilliant. Well it's but I can't do it. God damn it. What's funny friend Eric is that your we have the exact same answer? We're just approaching it from different mindsets answer to what question because the reason why I loved school shopping was because I was always convinced that this was the year things would change.
And so like school supplies for like the fresh start which was like Honestly Hot take the reason why be athd people bring by somebody fucking goddamn journals and planners is because we all secretly Harbor, that hope still. Oh, yeah, this is the planner that's gonna become the planner. That's going to change is my life? It's gonna be a little Post-it notes in its, but like, but that was it, that was like, that was it for me? Was that every year? I would, I would go into school.
I would have fucking the cut, the color, coded folders, and the, and the, and the notebooks, and I would do like little perfect labels. And what Her. The then there would always be that moment there would be the moment where I like tore the corner or broke the hinge or lost the pens or whatever, and then it would just immediately go back to what it was, you know? But there was like that, glorious shining, like two week period. At the beginning of every school
year were like, nah. This is the girl that I get friends. This is the year that I'm cool. This is the year that this happened and is funny because like you would pretend to read, I would turn the book. Upside down and pretend to read slower than I could and pretend to not know the answers because I wanted people to like me, like, it's so funny that you said that because I was just like, I was sitting here thinking I was like, yeah, we
both have the same experience. Just like very different takes on it. Yeah. Well I think I feel that I like I've like a profound sense of nostalgia for like school shopping because I mean like in a way I do too because after that I totally had that feeling. You know I was like this is the year. The year that my I don't lose my pencils. I only need one pencil box. I'm not going to need to. I'm not going to need to refresh it halfway through the semester. My parents would get so mad at me.
I heard you get so mad, like about like, I just have any fucking school supplies. I lost like a whole thing. Well, I feel that, what do you fucking call those those fucking pencil boxes. I can still feel it had like the smooth with this. In the top part was colored like these purple or something like that. It's like that. The rectangle and the rectangle had like the brand and the rectangle was like textured differently than the other part of it. Yeah. And that didn't think they had
like little circle out lessly. Yeah. They have like those little like bumps little box and you can rub the little bumps. Oh and every year you got a planner from school. Yeah. Or that. We didn't have those. You didn't have those know. My school didn't have planners and went to a tiny school. Yes, that's right. Although my such a stupid story, but I'm going to tell her because I don't care. We my school band.
Trapper Keepers. Like, we were not allowed to have Trapper Keepers. It's such a fun phrase to say no. But I didn't know what a Trapper Keeper was until high school because my school band them. And so, like my mom just like, wouldn't we just would skip the Trapper Keeper. Just make sure which one was a Trapper Keeper, you know? Like it's a cardboard thing and it has those rings that will. Yeah. It's like the binders with like the cool, you know, like
designed or whatever. But we weren't allowed to have those until high school. And then when I discovered Trapper Keepers, that shit changed my life. Wow. This big dumb Lisa, Frank fucking for everything a is like, A high school. So, yeah, the big one with the zippers. And yeah, the pockets and shit. Oh God, you and there was like disgusting, dirty was just like, oh, it's indicative of my mental state. Oh no. Like I that back to school feeling and this is going to be
the year. Like I had that every single year of my life or school you know, every single new school year. Now years don't really mean much to me it's just off passing time. But anybody who's listening to Susan school right now eventually yours are Going to be very measurable things to you, but I had that feeling of, oh yeah, this is the year because I was, I always appreciated. I appreciate the concept of organization so much, I mean, I never shut up a mise en place
and that kind of thing. First order retrieve ability, like I appreciate the concept and fascinated by the concept so much. So when I would go back Dino's back to school supplies, I would do, I would absolutely have that feeling of like this is the fresh start and at some point I started realizing the pattern of me feeling like that. Like, it's the fresh start. This is the year and then it inevitably not. Not being the year and then they were then they were right next to each other.
So by probably sixth grade going back to shul school shopping when I'm having that feeling of like AA fresh start, here we go. This is the time I would just Teeter back and forth between that feeling and no, you're fucking not Eric, who are you kidding? And then a couple seconds later would have that feeling again and I was just switching back and forth and back and forth. It was like it was like an induction heater Well science for you real quick.
Any signs is listen to this. Please correct me if I'm wrong. There's something called induction here that I have always wanted. If anybody has a line on it on a thermal induction heater, please send please let me know what an induction here is Katie what please continue? I'm go. I think it was over this. It's a coil of metal. So it stick goes out and then it's like a big spring, and he goes one way, and then it goes back into the source. That's busy.
We're like a spring that's connected to a thing, right? A big coil and you pump. I believe AC current through that and what that causes is a magnetic field. That's just switching back and forth, really fucking quickly inside of that coil. So if you pick something that isn't conducted by Amanda to magnetic field, nothing happens. The coil never gets hot. You can stick your hand into it, but if you stick metal into it, that is ferus ferus.
Yeah. Ferris the molecules inside of it will align one way, and then the other way, and then one way, and then the other way and the other way the other way, they'll go so fast. That you can heat like a bar to Red Hot In Like A couple seconds. You just stick it in and just goes also, you're a blacksmith, you might already know this. Did you know this the whole
time? And I'm gonna connect with between those two so quickly at the beginning of the school year because I hadn't fucked it up yet and so I was like hopeful and then data would be the data shows that that's not going to fucking happen. So, I would, when I was walking through Staples with my mom, every time I saw New little thing will folder pencil case or whatever.
I got the feeling of Hope immediately, followed by the feeling of Shame. And then I was feeling I'm feeling, hopefully it is, I would switch back and forth between those so quickly that my brain would just heat up. And eventually I think to, I know, you're still smirking because this was, that was such a walk, maybe. But I mean to bring down the room again a little bit. Like I think that's in a lot of ways.
As where my Depression started not just in that Scholastic entire because again, ADHD is water. It's so everywhere, it's hard to notice sometimes I get that way. Whenever I think of a new project whenever I think of a poem I want to write or whenever I think of a video I want to make or away to reorganize my desk. I immediately get that feeling of Hope and appreciation for organization, and appreciation for art and whatever followed immediately by the shame of, no, you're fucking not.
You are not going to write that book. You're going to start the book and then you're not going to
finish the book. You're going to start the You're not gonna finish the sculpture and I go back and forth between those so quickly and I'm talking about like matters it's like s sometimes fractions of seconds I go back and forth and back and forth and back and forth and it heats up my brain like an induction here and I think that's where my depression was sort of born is it was easier to just go, you know what, fuck
everything always. It was much easier to do that than to deal with the induction here, the flipping back and forth of Hope and shame to die. I was like, are you know what if That's going to be the way that the world is if I'm going to engage with the world and that's going to happen. I'm just not going to engage with the world. I'm gonna give up hope so I don't have to keep tearing back and forth. I'm just going to fucking pick shame or whatever. I don't know.
And and then I was depressed from a very early age because every time when you know, if, if when the school shopping happened or we're supposed to be talking about reading. So when the teacher would pass out a book, I was like, great. I'm going to look at this book and think, oh, I'm really excited to read this book. Follow me levite. Well, you're not fucking gonna back and forth, back and forth,
back and forth, depression. And so I think again it goes back to like if you have ADHD or you know, depression is extremely common core video with ADHD but the why how does that actually manifest in a person's brain? I'm really grateful to be able to talk about that kind of thing and learn about that in other people's experiences with it. Yeah. But again our relationship to reading I think is really interesting. I would do is I went so fucking far away.
I really like, I don't know if there's a moron brand things than like, oh, we're going to talk about like learning disorders in ADHD and it turned into trauma about school supplies. I don't know how we did that. I'm almost proud of us. It's real. It's just like it was the kind of thing that you don't like think about until it like hits you in the face and you go, oh, that's why I like buying fucking pens because it reminds me of hope, you know, and I lose them, but I feel shame.
This is Constance, I can show. What the hell are we gonna call this episode? I was going to call it back to school, but then I was also going to call it rearranged bow, but then I was also going to, I don't know. I'm stuck, I'm reading rain back to school reading. Rain back, that's terrible reading. I don't we'll figure it out and you figure out what I'm going to call the sections of this episode to.
Because I know, I know the majority of you don't, but if you list of this on anchor, I name the files of each segment, a little funny, little joke. So you know, anchor doesn't sponsor us yet. So I shouldn't be giving them all free. Shout out, but just saying, that's, that's good here. Yeah, I love you, I love you too, that's it. So I want to say I'm glad you're here. And that's it. That's the end of the episode. That was a ride. What a wild Magic School Bus. That was a wild and crazy.
Miss Frizzle ride, Miss Frizzle of ADHD. Tick-Tock you are kind of the Miss Frizzle of I need more cool like plan addresses do I guess I guess we got the dinosaur. You're like a you're like a dinosaur. I'm like Miss Frizzle but only on Dino episode. Yeah, cool. Well anyways, here's a patreon song. We know, we have to we have to explain what happens for how you get into the oh yeah.
Oh, excuse me. We have a patreon, is patreon.com slash infinite Quest and if you sign up to join our patreon family, we put your name into a song that we rehearse all week, exhaustively for hours and hours and hours. That's right. And it's, you know, I'm not saying that Carnegie Hall It's calling them. We keep turning them down but wait until you hear our this for here we go. It was amazing. Trina and j.r. Kirsten and Aaron.
Now I'm singing. Haha, Katrina and data and Kirsten and Erin. And Sarah, Sarah. We're sorry, but your name is now part of every patriotic him, but it's just, it's just ha, ha. Ha ha, ha ha. Ha. But for now we love it. Speaking of which drink some water. Take your meds. We love you, you just snack, I still love you. From all of us have been requests will see you next. So it looks like I can see the numbers. I know nobody actually really loses living is high. If you're still here, you're
really cool. You know what I'll say. If you're still here, the secret word is a lava lamp, lava lamp. And if you email us if it was broadcast at gmail.com and say, Lavallee, nothing will happen, but you will get a cool sense of satisfaction and smoke superiority over. Everybody's just bails by the end of the episode. Yeah, you're better than all of those people. It's true. You, you listener are the best.