Hello, welcome to infinite Quest. So we have some strange guests on this week. I've mentioned it before in the podcast that I get my depression from my mother and my ADHD for my dad. And it just so has it that on mine. Katie's little road trip, be spectacular weirdness thing.
We were all in the same place, at the same time at an Airbnb and so I asked them if they would be willing to be on the podcast and talk about their Relationship and navigating their relationship for the past 31 plus years. So, what follows is a conversation that Katie and I had with my parents, Carl and Dorsey. Goood, and for those of you who might be thinking, oh, great, I just heard are talking about himself all day Tuesday.
Some of the most interesting people that I've ever had the opportunity to meet and they have such Beautiful observations about living life as a neurodivergent couple. This episode is for anybody who has ever loved anybody with depression or ADHD and we are so honored and excited to have them. So enjoy. Well, thanks for saying the kitty. I'm quite fond of them as well. Just for a little bit of background and context stuff. My father is an artist.
He was a journalist in New York City for 30-plus years. He was the graphics director of Associated Press for a little while, he was the graphics director of Newsweek. Magazine, which if you don't know, used to be a weekly news magazine. It was highly respected for 80-plus years and it has since sort of died with the internet and my mom is until June the development director at Michigan State University. So they're both both very capable people individually and together.
They create something that is greater than the sum of their parts. And to reiterate, this is not an episode about me. It's not an episode about Katie. This is an episode about two people who I love the ever-loving hell out of each other. And Have Not only made it work but have flourished together despite their neuro divergencies for 30, plus years, and they're just beautiful people in general. So, without further Ado, enjoy transition. How are you? Great good great.
Thanks for being on our fun little podcast. This is very weird but also finding cool in it and enjoyable and excited. I'm having fun and show you my favorite part of the podcast is how once again. We haven't actually started the podcast. You just started talking to all know, we're going to do a whole interesting. You will you all we're gonna do the whole thing. I was gonna say the intro part, we're going to do those separately right?
Dude. Elissa Are you heard the whole wonderful little intro section that we just did we not to do that again? But we're your parents. I want to show you can. Hold on. We're gonna, we're gonna restart leaving all this in. We're going to start. That's it. That's all well, that's our job now. Mom and Dad. That's what, that's what you raise your kid to do. The first intro. When we have the first injury. Now we're like insane. Really saved it with the hey, goob.
Well, like it's just funny. You didn't reduce this week's guest. She just should well. Which here today we have my mother Dorsey goood. Hi Mom, how are you? Hi Eric, I'm fine, thank you. How are you super polite to is extremely polite. Always, and you never remember, you never burp. Unless you're camping camping. We're a camping. Do this Cass is camping were in a room with with with with blankets and stuff hung places. This is like nine looks kind of
got to tell you. It doesn't look like camping at all. Like it doesn't feel right. I don't feel really you have you noticed her a bunch of not real trees in this house fires everywhere. Yeah, don't touch. These trees. Like I'm is not just, the record is not our house. Where, yes, we're on are being very kind of pack. Ice question for you. Yeah. Why are your parents here? My parents are hero because we're all And we just got vaccinated.
I'm at like why are they have the part where we going to talk about? Did you let me do my job? I would cheese Katie you let me but we got pockets for six months. Now I means I'm an expert. I know why we're here well, and we also have my father, Carl geun-hye, Dad, how are you? Hold on. Tell you. I was gonna do a thing Katie. I was gonna do a thing Vamp for a second then turn now? No, no. Okay. Now there's a bunch of spotlights on me and clustered You're here. No I'm not.
I'm just acting nervous because I think it's Charming. I don't think I guess I'm nervous about my parents. That's fine, but I've talked a lot on the podcast about how I get my depression for my mom and my ADHD from my dad. You're welcome. It's kind of fun that like know Katie's meeting them. So it's like, oh, that explains a lot about Eric in the way that he is.
And so having them on has always been sort of in the back of my mind but I didn't know when we be able to see each other but we all just got to accented and so we're all together and so I thought I'd take this opportunity to move everything around in this Airbnb. And make a nice little podcast reporting tub. So that's fine. That's really interesting. Is that you just said that, that now, Katie understands where you're coming from because of us. And she's gotten to know us
right? Where as we are, I just totally lost my train of thought you better suck your dispersed, a hole. And I think was a lot easier. Are you speaking for me? No. Yeah, these are things. You've said on the record. I'm just saying. It's on the record. It just comes charging. So so it's big. It's a big trade-off at this table or something. Yeah. It's just only through a time. I'm sort of at it was good. It is worth noting for those very good point. And it definitely feels very
strange. Like having apparently helped my parents with their marriage, like, as their kids. Like, that's just a very weird thing, but like ADHD is one of those things that I wasted a lot of my life certainly assuming that it was just some school thing. Like it was only problem because I was in this crazy artificial circumstance and if I wasn't in that circumstance and everything would be fine. Whereas it turns out I've been learning over the past year plus that's absolutely the case is a
deep foundational. Thing that affects like every little moment of your life sometimes in a very subtle not noticeable way and sometimes in very brand ways. And so this is a great honor that I could help bring you along in that Journey. One of your teachers, thought
your ADHD. I really, I asked, I asked, and I asked real, has I kept thinking Hmm with all your frustration with school, and yet how clearly smarter than the average bear you were, I kept asking where the, where the The Gap was and how we get and they know. And so finally, you know, who was, it was your Odyssey of the Mind coach, really? Yeah, who said? And so, we without any backing from the school system, went off and had you tested? What do you think of the Odyssey
of the Mind coach? What do they say? What do they do? They notice anything. I honestly don't remember. I think she more, you know, because you remember her and she was always in teaching mode, right? So I think, but she basically did was honor my instincts. Mom, which I think is really very nice. But she agreed that it, we might, it was really a nice way to put it that we might learn
something. And I think that's for me with my depression and you with your ADHD is to think about, is to try to stay in space and being curious and what can we learn? And we've always said to you with my depression in Carl's ADHD, you got a really full plate of wiring hearings in your head if and And so, my job, I always felt like was to teach you and your brother skills as much as possible, for what? How your particular plate needed to be handled.
And so that's when we went guy, you test, that's really nice. We got a lot of people talk to us about not being believed either by their spouse or a surprising amount by their Healthcare professionals which is infuriating. That's really nice to know that there was a person I guess in my life imagined know that many of us it was happening I guess mostly I didn't forgot which is entirely possible.
Possible. But I didn't know that it was the nobody believed you or me, or never thought anything was used to say, I was up to and saying Eric, my kid has eight HD, I just knew there was a gap and that Something like, ADHD could be the gap between, and your frustration was just so huge and it led to so much sort of self-loathing and why
couldn't you just do the stuff. But then you also look into whoever you were little you looked up at me with like some math homework and I was like a worksheet of plus things, and you just us are just do it. It'll take you like four minutes and you just looked at me like Mom. It's so Work seeds because you didn't need 43. Questions about what 3 plus 4 was. She was just in agony. I remember, I don't know if this
was you. I think it was you, but you said to do, like polka dot them, because, you know, those big like times table worksheets were always like five across in a million down or something like that. And as I was really, it was really fun to rather than just go across. I got to, like, pick which one I did next, you know. So it was like a Little side little side game or something like that. Do it was cleaning pad? Yeah, I can make like, a little
smiley face. I could do like 1721 and then, you know, 31 through 36 and then it will be a little smiley face, you know? So it added like a little extra stimulation. Somebody asked me the other day about cooking, why they love to cook when they were making it up, but couldn't do recipes. And this isn't like some DSM confirmed thing. But for me, I always found that if I'm doing a recipe, there's just not enough going on because I'm just doing the thing. You know, what does that?
Say, the recipes are easy. They're not, but it's just doing. Doing the thing whereas if I'm improvising or have to improvise suddenly they're like decisions to be made and they're like things to learn and it's your bike but mess it up all the time and it's it was more stuff going on. So like with the worksheet it was like just a little extra thing. Like which one am I going to choose next bumped up like the
interestingness of it? I guess but I was also curious like I know you knew about ADHD is a concept because you were talking my teachers and other people about it. How much of Dad's ADHD like how how much of dads idiots do Or your awareness of it was in your head as you were doing that. Were you thinking like maybe Eric's like Carl or was it? Totally not in your mind at all? Did you know even suspect that Dad had ADHD? And I certainly am aware that you're here. Dad.
Please wait. I'm like how are you doing? Katie, I'm great. Yeah, I'm just, I'm looking good looking good. Thank you. I think you're doing a great job. Yeah, I'll stake you keep going. You guys, keep going, this great moms looking at deadly. So, how do I was a talking answer? The question. Anybody can answer that one. That's it. That's it. That's it. That's preform. What was the question? Well, look, what was it? I forget. You can say, three of us. Have any mom.
You're the only one at this table that in each dir. Sorry for that. But the question was basically, were you aware that Dad had ADHD and maybe? Therefore, maybe I had. Yeah, the time when dad's ADHD got named was when you were part of that, study at Michigan State University about siblings in ADHD and you both got Did and we did a whole bunch of testing called The Brave Brothers had tested. And and parents, we are inserting a bunch of questions. As part of this multi control
group. That's how we were compared it. So they can base, we want that control group, we were apparent whoever's, we feel that a university skirt if the statistic they're like, oh no, I just work there. I was just a professor. What do I know? Came back? The both call, n Eric had ADHD calls, they said, May or may not affect his life Barracks. They said was going to affect his life and then they were as a separate letter. Dear mr.
Goon. Well your children show signs of attention deficit disorder you my friends set off the charter. I think it was more scientific than all those charts that's Because no, I didn't. I didn't think I have always thought that that because of the depression I made that link like, yes, it's highly likely that what Eric is talking about his depression because of me, but I didn't actually make the link that's in. It was indeed EHD a little more.
There was a stigma of being a just it was it just meant that you were a destruct disruptive AB kid in class and that's really what it meant, your disruptive your you're loud. You're generally a boy. Yeah that's nuts. Miller. Much the case lesson was. Now we're back then but you never would now they realize that That it's there's so much more than just being a hyperactive kid in a classroom isn't actually subtle things that I dh10 that was talking. I don't remember anything about
beyond the school years. So how old were you when Carl when this happened? When I started? Oh, I was, I was in my mid 50s. So what was it? What was it like for you? Like I was like, I never really thought about my TC. I just felt guilty all the time because I was always, yes, I was always Forgetting things. I was constantly procrastinating constantly wrong about things and just prior to prioritizing completely inappropriately. Like, I could finish this or I could bake a cake.
And I would always go bake a cake and like, even at work in it. When I was working in New York, I even was ADHD to. I'm pretty sure he and I, we were, he worked for me but we were We were we had so much fun, it was really serious business, but I've been working my ass off at my computer and you be working as a softening show up in my office story though. How you doing? I say, I'm so freaking sick of sitting at his computer and okay, I gotta get this done. I just got to go.
He goes, I was going to throw this basketball at your windows. That cool. I was like, we're 16, floors up. This is such a great idea and it wasn't my job. We spent the next 15 minutes getting the courage to throw a basketball out of the window into Manhattan, New York City. Remember the car? Will it bounce all the way down the street and we did it. There is a decent amount, there was a deist, there was like a secondary roof somewhere down there, it will know, it went all the way down.
It was 2:00 in the morning, okay, because we were news that we pulled every week. As you know, I pulled an all-nighter, right? I might not have had to pulling all-nighters if I started the job earlier during the week, rather than waiting until the last minute. But well, it's going to say because you so you and Kevin. I don't want to diagnose Kevin but Having to co-worker, my father. Yeah, Kevin has a Nike, Kevin think of the word zany and he's a zany.
Got Evans, Theodore full candy in his, in his, in his office. Who's the guy in the skateboarding? Video was Eric. Oh yeah, we should. And very loving and very, very loving, very loving. Yeah, just a wonderful guy but you and you were you and he would bounce off. Each others, Wonder up being there was a kid with a Toews. It was amazing. Being like, Oh my gosh, so don't scan be kids to this is great, but you and he were also very proficient at your jobs.
We really here It's really good. How did, how did that won't? What was your working like there? I mean, what was your workflow? Like there is a poet's, how did even though it's hard to sit at a desk in, not, you know, and not have interesting things having to sit there and organize, you know, files and stuff like that at all in annoyance, eventually. At the end of the week, you ended up with a finished graphic for Newsweek magazine. But yeah, we won awards to run towards.
How did you get there? What, how did you get to that point? Click during week like, yeah, what's your process? How did you know what the fuck? Well, where we worked was a magazine called Newsweek and I was the graphics director there. So we were it was a Weekly Magazine that died when the internet came around, pretty much. But it existed, if it's a crummy crummy Magazine. Anyway, the it was such a great Stellar magazine for 85 years in New York.
But, but anyway, so, during the weekday started on Tuesday, and we go to press on Saturday night. So, the week was from, They to Saturday and then Sunday and Monday. We were off but I so Tuesday, you reports Weekly Magazine, see, reporting about things that aren't you're going to, you're doing stuff on a Tuesday.
That's going to be your hoping still going to be news when you go to press in all next Saturday, when it goes to press what happened on Tuesday, people want to read it that old news. So I thought nobody cares about Tuesday. I'm just going to goof off all day. Wednesday, same thing Thursday. We should start thinking about getting serious here because now we're going Be up against a
deadline. So we started working and thinking about what we're going to do in the cover story, might be the World Trade Center attack. What would trade center Tech whole different story Jay, it's called scramble. The Jets everybody jumps into their drivers into the, in just works till they drop but, you know, something like zel, we're doing a cover story on Diabetes like. Okay, so that being said,
there's no breaking news. No war is no plane crashes or and so we're just going to do a fluffy cover on the very bad scourge of diabetes and so I Wound up thinking about like one
out what is what about diabetes? I'm not interested me like I don't know anything about if you have to do this whole thing explaining it. So I would start researching it for serious on Thursday. Could you get yourself to focus on Thursday um enough to get just the research going and maybe a little sketch of what I was thinking about doing that with diagram, because I was the artist there. So I explained visually explained what diabetes was, and how it killed nerves and stuff like that.
And so, by Friday, I'm I'm starting to get a little serious because it's Friday, and the bosses are going to start going on my office door. Like, what have you got going here? We haven't seen anything, which was a weekly ritual with us and on and then I wound up pulling an all-nighter Friday night into Saturday, every week, every week. And how did that affect your focus where you? Well, it's able to focus during the Christchurch. You definitely a photo it
affected other things. How did affect my focus? I really Really focused. Well when I went in there was absolutely no option. You either get this done now or you're in deep shit. Hmm. Like you're going to get fired and you guys going to be a big hole in the magazine with the where your thing was supposed to be but you do make your deadline and and I was the boss. I had 12 people working for me in that department.
So we were all We're all under the we were all but there were they're the ones like, bought you. Nobody was really good. She was someone I should have learned from who started very early in the week and built her thing throughout the week. It was I was I was waited and waited because I wasn't ever sure my brain just couldn't focus on what to do. You should have affected your marriage to. How was that?
Well, I would ask her, but I didn't know I was a vhd until that study and at the University mom. So when he says that affected your manhood, That because he was coming home late as a bit because it was stressed all the time on that late in the week. It's actually sort of this pretty hard to sort of here in hindsight because yeah, I mean I raised you to voice pretty much as a single mother, which is not
how I put it until years later. All I knew was that Carl was gone all the time and that he worked all night Friday nights and most Saturdays. And so the is the idea that some of that was because you couldn't just bring in focus. But I was also trained because often whenever you started something early in the would be scrapped. I can't describe how you receive all the time wearing, something that nobody wanted because that was old news.
And now they're serious because it's Thursday, sort of changed the cover from diabetes to this. And there's always, I think you, you are never ever a malicious person. You never do anything to hurt me or our family, but being the partner of someone with ADHD is a thing. I mean, I'm sitting at the table, with three of you wonderful people. It's a thing, you know, because you can't focus, you can't get something done. Until there's been sort of a long time in a bunch of Chaos.
When you're not ADHD, that's hard to watch. And it affects things like that. You're not home because you can't start the graphic until they're, you know. And and I would I'm going to what we were talking about at the beginning of the podcast about how Eric in the weird position of helping his parents marriage, your whole thing on time, dilation was just blew my head off. So, oh my God, he's not just an idiot. He literally can't tell what five minutes versus three months
is in a project. Yeah. It's pretty staggering in it. It is what is great. It was so great. So and so, but the thing about procrastination when you're in a relationship with somebody, is it affects the person you're in a relationship with and less and this is the interesting thing and I'd actually love to hear your podcasts of the partners of people with ADHD unless you back off. I mean, I back off a lot because I can't go into the Ki. Can't be invested in the chaos.
I can't do it because I'm a, I'm an organized son of a gun. You know? I mean I like and so I can have a retirement account. Where did you learn that? When I retired I was talking about it, as you said, you know, you can retire and I was like, no, I can't. I mean we still use. Oh yes, you can retire with a guys like oh my god, did I? I married the right person. What of your what was it? What it might say? It sounds exhausting to try to keep up with the chaos of an
ADHD person. I have no idea because I am one. But how how easy was it or have you even found a balance between being engaged enough to maybe help them understand them more but also advocate for yourself and set boundaries and think I can't be involved with the level of chaos or Miss price. Art ization or whatever. It's going on with that other person. The boundary I set is sort of with me is then I'm going to try I am just running out there.
I said it, as we were driving, those two are very few problems that can't be solved. If you forget your wallet at the grocery store, you come home and get it. If you forget, I mean, you know, there are very few things in life that are really, really, really serious. And so, I just kind of Try really hard, not to be invested it other than solving, the problem. And I am a problem. Solver, that's where I go in my head, if this thing has happened, how are we going to
solve it? We're going to use FedEx in the wall. It will arrive. You know, whatever. I go, it's true. I did lose. I forgot my wallet for this trip out here to see you. I left it at home, so and we're flying back. We drove here. But we're flying back and I can't get on the plane without my weapon. I left my wallet at home. So we had to scramble and find someone to break into our house since then. Federal Express into it. But she never yell at me about that.
She was just always like, what are we going to do? About not having them all. And we need the water and was told, I was not aware spinning and I was like trouble. I think, I think the hard part, in terms of the marriage, besides the specific staff is I always have to be the calm one and organized one. except when you're not common, I am well and, and then but the Has that. Does that happen? It's happening. Now I think we've been married Thirty. Hey, just beers.
If I can just say, back to back to the, to the Newsweek thing about my procrastinating and that major life, a living. Hell. I just want to point out that I would War, I would. I was in. I was unable to do that worksheet at me. Ooh, sweet for all these early days, but then, when I had to go my brain clicked into this hyper Focus, that just catapulted me to into the midday into the midnight hours into reaching my deadlines and winning Awards and doing great work and beating the
competition, which was my job. And I know that into that space, that headspace where I can just go home and zoom in on that problem, and do it. And that's why. Work. That's the way I paint. That's the way I right? I'm working. I'm doing it. I'm doing. I'm doing writing right now and you're incredibly good and creative of what you do. I wasn't trying but that's some of those in prison for. Okay, you can call my memory but
I wasn't complimenting him. I was gonna say how it affects me if you were fishing just got home, the fact that you need this kind of warm up period. Period of increasing anxiety. Yeah. To to the point where you can shoot the arrow. That's exactly what I was increasing anxiety. Yes. So as someone who loves you and lives with, I created and watches, you create anxiety as the time window shortens.
And I, as an organized, you know, planner of a person which is probably why we're married and it works so well. But it still, I'm like, good Lord, you know do what you can like take off So, it's hard and I spend a lot of time alone. Yeah, I spent a lot of time alone, raising boys right now, you're writing this online course that you're going to teach. You're working 8 plus hours a day on, it gonna be great. It's gonna be great and it will be great, it's the thing but I'm alone.
Because that's your process and you're going to work it and work it and work it and procrastinate and do the thing and write this this much to get this much and I get it, I love you. That's your process but it does affect the life the literal daily hourly life of the other person. Yeah. And then you throw my depression into that mix and my mental health and so I do a lot of stuff to safeguard my own Mental Health. But despite all of that may be true. You need me. Let's think about that.
You're like, no, I'm buying the trailer. No, I'm fine, guard know. I love you and yes but the subject run today is how ADHD is NASA specs, you our marriage and our big, whatever positive or negatively and positively really really? Yeah, we should a second ago that you had to do a number of things to safeguard your own mental health. What were some of those things? The back is the the detach with love that you learn in, you know, when you love an alcoholic or any alcoholic.
And I think ath, you know, I detach with love, so the law, but the things that happen I see them. I problem solved. I I am really sorry that it must be frustrating as hell too. Forget your wallet or meeting or whatever it is. I mean I you're not doing that maliciously. So what I detach with love but a lot from that, And then the depression that is mine, smells
amazing. You know, he gets me out of the house, he recognizes my Moody make sure I eaten, you know, we take care of each other, that's what we do. And it will make me cry to think about it because we really do take care of each other. That's marriage. I think it's a it's a good marriage. It's a good marriage. Is in a marriage that doesn't come with things like I love, love, love. man, but I detachable up because, I need to my sons. Will look at you. You made it to the middle of the
episode. You little goofy goober. Congratulations. I just wanted to take a moment to thank all the people that have helped us on this weird, infinite clutch Journey, both financially, and the people who have been helping us behind the scenes, making adak the hey guden, kto, Soros and infinite quest which streams work and flow better. Thank you an for Helping us with weird tax stuff. Thank you moon, for just, I
mean, got whiter whites start. Thank you moon for just being an indefatigable source for good in the world. And thank you scribbles for being there, just all the time. I'm always shocked, even when I go live randomly in the middle of the day, you're always there. I just, I appreciate you all so much. I can't begin to express my gratitude. What's that?
What's going on at the patreon? You say, well, Katie and I have started doing watch a Longs for movies that we really Like, we just finished doing, what's the Katie? What's the name of the movie? Indiana Jones? And the Last Crusade, banana Jones, and the Last Crusade we really want to do movies that like, I haven't seen that, Katie loves and vice versa, and that kind of stuff. So it'll be like, one person's introduction into a whole new world, but it was a lot of fun. I'm sir, Kay.
That's trademarked. You're going to get this whole thing shut down by Disney. It's going to be it's going to be a whole thing. Yeah I can accept it. Can I just do this one thing now? Well we've been progressing and it's Wednesday night so I are close. So anyways we're going to start doing little watch long as they're going to be audiophile e. Things much like a podcast. We're going to talk about like what's the deal is?
If you know I've you know I've never seen Indiana Jones before so it can you ask me like what do you Think this movie is about that kind of thing. And then we like, okay, everybody get ready to play, 321 play and then we can watch the movie together and you can listen to me and Katie say dumb things during the movie, and it's going to be a great time. So stay tuned for more of those on the patreon. If you have any suggestions for movies, you'd like to see us.
Do you know, send them on over in the patreon? No promises because they take a long time to make because they were take a movie link to record in this interstitials going on for too long so I'm going to end it now back to the dog to they do the interview. Vicious. I have a question about something. You said earlier, you said that, you don't have a real as I grew up with Mom Yelps. Yeah, my mom was a yellow ochre. So what I want to know is, did you learn that?
Raising two, boys and caring for a husband with ADHD? Or did? You was that? Always kind of who you are. Was the problem, solver, calm collected, or did you have to develop that skill over time? You know, this would be the whole other podcast about I definitely was raised in a family that doesn't yell. No, definitely not no yelling, no yelling, no is spend. So I I Yelling my own personal anger, there's a whole other podcast. I don't do my own personal anger
in any outward way. Say, thus the depression on quick, you know, I could diagnose myself. But now I I really don't even go to yelling, it's not like I want well, your dues, but your pterodactyls about every five years. I'm sorry, there's a terrible term, pterodactyl voice was just said, we're not to test that. Well, don't lie to me, and it's only when Really get pissed at her about something like she's mad at me about something like
Carl, you really got. And I'm just going to, I'm going to go and get all defensive and say something childish, and she gets mad. And then she is says, Mi posted, she poses. It's part of the pterodactyl came. That's because I just started laughing, besides you, did this arms, go on her hips, very high, like are more up top and lower rib cage her arms and she gets very angry and then she points her elbows at me.
So I can't even get him as far forward as she doesn't, and then she starts flapping them like this, just dress to stress her point and she's screaming at me and I said, you look just like a fucking tear it down. She's only done that probably four times in 30 years, so I really can. That was a those are buttons. I just say, I don't know.
But again, because that was that to her, doctor was coming for me. Describe it is, you know, the movie Splash screams Splat. Oh yeah, yeah, she's a mermaid anyway. Sometimes she goes into his big a Best Buy or some sort of store that is selling TVs, and she can't talk because she's a mermaid in. Then somebody tries to get her to talk and she tries to verbalize in human language, but she's a mermaid and she just seems horrific screaming, Whaley thing and blows out.
Out all the time. They all pop because she's just making this noise. That's my here, desert. Yeah, but she doesn't really get angry yet. I mean, she get me angry. You get angry. I don't, you know, I don't think that's true. In my experience, you don't get angry, you don't yell, but you do get angry. It's much more of like a, your more quiets to, to draw and listener, you know? It it's that's what your tone changes a little bit yet. So it's why scare she starts Whispering.
Oh my God, time when she starts with being just as I hate you, too, I just got Just need to save a lot more money on therapy if you had perhaps, that's 50% of joke but I think because of you yelled, I would have. If I would have time stamp the moments that were very impactful to me because it'd be like, oh, that time you yelled very loudly but since they were quieter, they're harder to recognize, I think, if I think I don't know.
I mean, I haven't done enough thinking about that too, like to really see how you yell over something. That is just part of the person that you love. Oh well let me tell you how that happened, what you do is you know say for example you have a kid who just Decay.
Keep the room clean. So what you do is you just keep screaming at them about it over and over and over just over and over and over again to the point where now every time you yellow kid, just checks out and starts like counting squares on the ceiling sitting here. Yeah, it's the new year. Studies have a therapy fun to, are you. Do is calm. She always said, pick your battles. Hmm. And maybe for better for worse. I don't pick that many. Yeah. I think what was I think about
that? And I think say that pretty often pick your battles. Especially with Katie, the amount of BS Katie has to go through on her internet life. Life, the amount of people giving you shit, but like, if I had to pick my battles, my ideal would be no battles. That's my that's where I want to be, is no battles. And if I'm picking them and I get to choose the logic by which I picked those battles, and so you can flip stuff around in your head to eventually make it to choose.
No, but like no battle is worth fighting, but that's not advocating his for yourself. I need to assert the horrible and advocating myself, and I don't mean that so much in my marriage. I do probably mean it in my whole family bigger thing, what is my position?
Although, I did a bunch of years back say I am no longer going to be the family, mediator, everybody's going to have to figure out somehow and and it was a really, really, really hard time in our family but like, it worked, I'm terrible at advocating for myself. I'm very, very uncomfortable with it. So, you know, there are times
it's go back to ADHD where things happen. or maybe I should yell and stomp and say this is really awful for me right now you know this is really affecting me and I'm really really mad but I actually have the capacity To handle a lot. Hmm. Yeah. And so, where is that boundary? I don't know. Well I think when it comes to self advocacy especially in a relationship and I'd imagine more especially especially in a marriage is that neither one of you Mom and Dad are right and
the other wrong. It's not like Dad, you are wrong for having ADHD. Therefore you need to be as in all-encompassing Lee accommodating to whatever mom's needs are at all times and neglect. Yourself sets to facilitate mom's needs. Nor is it, you mom, having Depression. You need to facilitate, facilitate dad's needs and neglect, your own mental health. For his.
It's an interplay, of course it's a hopefully a healthy push and pull until eventually you find a healthy equilibrium between the two of them, which is very difficult. And so yes, model equilibrium is Rooster hand equilibrium concept. It's a horrible. Horrible concept. You mean horrible like you, you disagree with the premise or it's difficult. I think aiming for balance. Is soul-sucking, huh? Because you think it's an endpoint if you if Karl.
And I have reached balance in our marriage, then whatever. If I have the right work-life balance. Eureka, if, if we've reached equilibrium, it's not, it's like you're on a teeter. Totter seesaw. They don't have those anymore. OSHA one of the locks in, I don't think it's like you hit the night read. You're picking a lock and colleagues. Are you feel like? We feel like we're aiming for Equilibrium like it's a continent besides.
I supposed to make that I hear that I'm Teen Mom because I oh, I've always felt like that too because I feel like there's this idea that a partnership is always 50/50. But like, particularly having depression, sometimes you can only give 10% and the Teeter Totter goes the other way. And so if you're looking for equilibrium, if you're if you're constantly looking for balance, there's this idea that like I have to manufacture that other 40% Out of nothing, I have
nothing to give. I have nothing to context for a Carl steps up and you know, and and saves me. I mean and really because at that point he's giving 95%. Then there are other times when I'm getting 95% but there's no 50/50 it's just that over time, you stay afloat or overtime give and take, right? Yeah, I suppose I mean it's more tug-of-war. Feel guilty because I fail at it. Yeah. And so, it's one of those things you aim for, or you're told to aim for that is unachievable to me.
And I'd like, if you tell me the rule, I'm gonna read it. Like, tell me how to get the a and I'm gonna get it. And if it's balanced, I've just found it to be not balanced like this, but maybe, maybe it's like Trends over time, I don't really know, but Bounce kills me why? I think that like I hear that's all dicks currently valid. I think I'm trying to reconcile what I mean by a balance or equilibrium because I don't I don't at all, think balance or equilibrium means equal effort.
You mean partnership I mean partnership I suppose. Yeah you me where if you fall you're what one is capable of giving it a specific time is like 10% you're making that fit, your making, that work in that moment. Where, for example, if it I'm super depressed and I can't do something. I can only give 10% of whatever. My I mean actually you know what? ADHD time, switching, topics, switching points here, I got a different than it was shipped by other soapbox on over here.
Now, jump on that. I don't think 10% of what I think you're giving 100% of what you can in that moment that depressed moment, like ten percent of a hundred percent being like your best possible day. Because I don't think that's a really, I don't think comparing yourself to that moment is Is, is I want to say? It's an unhealthy thing to do, but I think it's more, it's better. Like you're giving 100% on your depressed days. If you're sometimes, it takes me
100% to get up and shower. Like, that's not me giving five percent because I'm so shitty at is 100%, that is 100% that day. And and so, I don't know, I guess what, I think it would be cool to room and balance. I don't necessarily mean that each partner is pulling literal or literally equal weight. I think it's equilibrium is is Communication skills to to find exactly what weight, you can pull. And what way the other person can pull, or other people can
pull, and how you make it work. I guess any clues as to shitty work and I'm thinking out loud. This isn't like a theory I have. I think it's like it's like blending your systems. Like you're like in a partnership like you have your system for living your life and what you need and who you You are and what your wiring is and all that and I have mine. And over time, we've Blended our systems. Yeah, through understanding, through acceptance and time.
I mean, honestly, I think a lot of it is time and we've kind of Blended him and it's rough. And I mean, you know, I it's frustrating. When you forget your wallet on the thing, it's not like, I'm like, oh yeah, I knew her well enough. I haven't forgotten my damn. Well I don't she doesn't need to verbalize it. Well, I already know she's like well that's the thing. What am I going to say? That's going to make. It's worse than he already done already? I already know. She knows.
I mean this is the that we my nose hard time. We know each other so. Well that I since every every Nuance of her mood and I like to do that actually from from your Angle dead. How does it I am on the way I wanted to phrase. This question has changed a lot in the last couple minutes, so here's a blended. None of all those but I guess how does it feel for you in the
moment? Well, I guess in several moments how does it feel in the moment when you're hyper focus on something and you're interrupted and how does it feel when through a complete, you know, shitty roll, the dice? You forget your wallet and it talks some huge grand plan up like, how does it feel in those moments and how did how much of that those feelings? Do you think are based on how it affects mom? Often my mom's the one doing the interrupting. So it's sort of like, okay, what
is he need? You know, I have to, I have to actually interrupting of the hyper-focus. Yeah. Interrupting my hyper Focus, because it's sort of, you know, you can't ignore something she needs, right? But right. It's time to do this or we need to go or whatever and you, or I don't realize I'm interrupting hyper-focus on. Yeah, I've been working on the book for a while and I'm like, we need to Have a life do something.
We said over going to do, but I've I've and that's the concept I've learned from listening to your podcast that I'm interrupt, it's been really helpful that I'm interrupting hyper-focus and I am that person. That doesn't mean my need is invalid I might need to interrupt hyper-focus but then pick your battles. Do I really?
Hmm, so that's been really helpful like I do, he's not just being a jerk who's ignoring me and whatever If the Braves brain is working and he is, this project is passionate about. Yeah, and I'm sure pisses him off. Does it piss you off? No, not not. It. Not some of the things you'll, if you make me, stop working on something it all together. Like dude, let's just don't do that, please like, don't do that. Like, don't paint them. Don't. Mm, don't strip the trailer and
paint. It, don't, you don't need, don't, I'm like Why not? I mean come on. What are you talking about? This is going to be really great but if you know that's when I let's like but but then I'm really later I but within minutes I'm on to something else so I like I'm I'm exactly like you are we're both quintessential self Learners and probably like you too although you have two messages through that we've never been to college
but but we are. We are Really into learning and self learning, is our way to do it because we can't abide by sitting at a desk all day. Really, and studying, you know, listening to somebody drawn on and on, but, Okay, well there's just it's a ghost. I knew this place was hot so here and there. But you know like I'm an artist and that's all self-training. Ever taken an art class.
I'm all these things but I know I'd be a whole lot better artists like an amazing artist if I weren't only doing it in stages. How's that feel bursts of hyper-focus? You know, if I I were just this more like Dorsey here, just I'm going to Everyday work on my art and I'm going to get better in till I'm Michelangelo. You know? Give it becomes the other is I
never, I never right ever. Yeah, and that's not your thing and I never would be if I'm good enough to do it and you do do it. So, hyper Focus has its and the drive that you can't stop to do the thing. I admire an N Viet. Yeah, while it also affects my life. I mean I would love to be unable to do anything other than right. You do is we are both retiring soon and I'm never I will be you could put me in a prison cell with us with a napkin Oh yeah, and I'll be happy for hours
with. Mmm can get a chance. I might even go days without napkin and but Dorsey you can put her in the middle of Disneyland and she's going to go. I hate retirement. There's nothing here. I want to do and I'm impressed. That's really turn those true and so I'm worried I think we're going to approach this new life of ours is new Final Chapter and then death okay as sorry, dude. Like I'm I just I do my regret
is that I'm not a better artist. Although I'm pretty happy with what I've achieved and in a million. Other things that I do, you're in, you're an amazing Chef here. Carly did it. Ow to be pulled that one out of your ass. It was funny for one am not amazing Chef. I really wish I am not. Don't talk about my friend that way. Yeah all the things. Thank you. You cook a lot of meals and Breads and things for us and I like Thanks, how does he do that? You doing the exact same thing, right?
You realize what's that? What do we do? Not agree, don't you? Give you a lot better? You're not going to have you but you're both good at something. We are good. What I mean to what? I mean to say is however, good of a cook, not Chef cook. I am a chef who cooked boss, okay, I could be a lot better if I had done the things. If I read the books in an organized way, if I don't and I built all those structures in my head, I have recipes written down in the overlay course of
study good. Exactly was like, okay. I'm going to make a 500 G batch of do everyday and increase the hydration by 1% for. But for a month, see what I can find perfectly where the thing is for the spot. Like I've designed it was Ross's but I don't do it, don't do any of them and this the sense of guilt, I feel from that is a mess. Like I feel with me all the time and so I'm wondering I'm asking you also, just like, as your kid asking us to advertise, how do you grapple with that?
The idea that you feel that you could have been epic at all. Art had you have the focus to just paste, pay the fuck attention, read the books. Go to take the classes. Well, you know what? I've what I decided years ago and and I still, I still believe this. I still feel this. I don't even know it's not a conscious thing, but I know I no longer have regrets. I just don't, I don't allow myself regrets because I've I've I've realized that I've accomplished.
I have accomplished a lot and Only, I can Define what success is and if I'm angry or or myself in Brunei or, you know, it makes me depressed or something. Well, I don't get depressed, but it's, it's off. It's my own doing other people's expectations of me, except for Dorsey, really aren't going to impact how I feel about myself, you know, so so I'm just saying that, I no longer judge myself, dude. Yeah, I don't know. I'm because, you know, What?
I always know there's going to be the next thing to do mmm-hmm. And so I Define my own success. And what there is one thread throughout my whole life that Dorsey is where of on some level that I am a pretty self-loathing guy, as you all know. And I always doubt myself in think I'm I'm what I've learned is that it was, this was this Me. I was trying to be an artist to impress people, particularly girls. When I was in high school, it
didn't work. And but it was like, I was trying to impress people that I was worthy. I like my parents and my evil malevolent father and stuff, but I was, I was, I was always trying to do things to impress them to collect these Life Academy Awards of what an amazing talent I am. Like, I'm now the top of my profession in New York and I didn't, um, now I'm an artist and now I'm teacher. Iran. All these things. And what I've learned is that none of those Academy Awards for living life.
None of them help prevent you from feeling, like the piece of shit that you feel like none of them. They make zero impact on how you feel about yourself. You can become president of the world and it will not matter. And so I realize that my greater goal and this is true and I told my students this, when I ask them, what is their goal in life? What is their They'd say to have that job as an added in a day, just see in Chicago.
That's my, my idea of success, that's my dream in life and I'm like, really that's it. And after what if you get that then what I said you know what my dream in life is to be on my deathbed, and think I'm a pretty good guy, I'll be happy if I reach that point in my life and it's a journey and I'm sure not there yet. So if I'm not a great, Artist. It was this path. I've taken to understanding
that. None of that shit means squat to not me, not feeling the ultimate goal, which is that I'm an amazing person, she thinks I'm an amazing person. And I wish I could get to where she thinks I am, and I do sometimes, And even if I finished a great painting or something, I found a million things wrong with it. You know, but on the other hand I'm sort of proud of it too. And I got it. You got it. Peter you go down. So it's so good.
So everything I do is met with as a certain amount of success and achievement. That makes me feel like I'm not I'm not going to give this up but I was a certain amount of it's not quite there. I've got to work harder than this and I want to, but I've given up a lot of things in my life that I just said just no longer important. To me, I do. How do you feel when you give up those things? Was it. I ain't giving stuff up like sugar.
No yeah I'm I have I have, you know, health condition, they might not getting sugar which sucks. I mean like you know projects and I know it's America something about a white wine over and that being wave server for the last month. But usually when I when I give something up like I'm ready to move on but I but I I love trying it, like Dairy farming, you know, I've delivered 27
Cavs, I did that whole spiel. I've owned all the weapons that you're supposed to own when you're a Dairy Farmer and you shoot bricks and you shoot whatever moose and I thought well okay so I've lived the life of a farmer. I understand those people I love those people but I'm not one of those people and I'm going to quit and you know my stepfather thought it was an evil person for doing that for quitting. Is it like it's a chapter and you got clothes in move on?
Yeah, that's a good way to put it there chapters and I I think I'd be dead if I Dentist looking at. Mrs. O'Leary's mouth for 42 years, Emily's going to have to come out. I said, that, 28 years ago. I was right. The kill me. Now is no no offense to dentist. It's just not my personality.
I think are cute. You posted something the other day that I thought it, with garlic, sometimes we'll send things along, but not true, but you said, Not every project needs to be acted on, not every good idea, even though it is a really good idea, doesn't need to be acted on and I thought about Carl because I think it's really one of your justifications often when you're hyper focused on using all these terms that I've learned. That would be how I would say it
normal life. But anyway, is that it is with undeniably a great idea and I'm always the sort of Of dragon over here going. Yeah but I don't really care that it's a good idea because it's going to consume you for the next. You know, I'm going to redo our master bathroom, it's going to take six weeks how was not a bad
project. I mean like like you you put you decide child psychology on me and it worked, you said Carl you don't need to renovate the master bathroom and and it's just going to I ran about her house in Connecticut for 12 years and moms like you know I remember that hand, when will we be done when it is finished? And the timeline this comes in and we were you know you can't that whatever I finished that I know. I finished it and I didn't
promise her. It's not going to take long and I worked on it every day of my life and I finished that and it's it was you like that glass shower, right? I mean, it was amazing. Love all. Your finished projects. Yeah I just know that it is a process and a time that is going to pass that is going to to get there. Yeah never doubt your projects. I doubt whether they're actually like you wanting to paint the
whole inside of the camper. I'm like you know what, why that is going to consume you for if we're going to go on this trip per month or for a year 9 plus months of it are going to be doing the Great project. And it is because the inside of campers are ugly as all get-out we hungry. I think that's the point. Is that not being consumed by something is so painfully boring will do anything to get out of it. We'll find anything that needs
to be changed. And so, and I speak for you understand that much better from under from listening to you, and I understand Carl better. I think I've actually, I'm really quite proud of myself that. We've managed to get this far, were with me, but apparently not understanding exactly what you. Of help me.
Love is better than important than understanding, but you are teaching yourself and learning about how ADHD affects your lives and your smart enough to be asking how it might affect Partnerships and what that looks like. And so, you know, you're basically going to school in your own way about this and how it affects your life, which I'm immensely proud of you for. I think it fits your personality
Ality it will help your life. And this weird by-product is that I'm understanding calm or. But the thing to understand is with all these decisions if you are in a partnership, And you are saying it is excruciating. Boredom is excruciating to me. Okay, as your partner. Not or having you in this state of hyper Focus. Is lonely for me or is it's like being you're married to an artist, right?
So you go, when he's in a project, he's in the project which I probably like being married to a trial order. When they're in a trial, they're in a trial. Well, you know a person with ADHD I guess, good always Entre is always on Trend. And so anyway, it's not just you that's in hyper Focus. It's the people around, you are dealing with the fact that you're in hyper-focus, about a great idea that you can't leave alone. Hmm. And you don't want your partner
to be in pain. I don't want you to choose boredom. Good God. Girl you would know can't imagine you get bored with me like that but it is a it's a thing. Yeah, hmm. Now normally I have one last question that I owe a. We always ask our guests and I'm going to ask that question as well. Katie, don't you worry, but I'm also I guess I just gave up again. Here. But I also wanted to ask the question. I'm gonna ask you a question. Don't answer it out loud yet.
Just think of your answers. How long have we been recording for? It's a hit record. How long has it been if you had to guess? Well, this sounds like the wrap up. So I know exactly was just thing like that. I shouldn't make a salami. So I was ending fine. You guys are inches. Well, we got Mom and our dead Brothers. You're saying sister, you 60 Minutes on the nose. 58 minutes. Okay, Carl dad, I'm going to say we're over by five minutes. All right, we got 56 minutes as
where we are. I was pretty good, I really fucked up because it's the end of the yeah. Well, you give the cool way to a time when thing question for your parents. Okay? The secret question, so we might go like three minutes over but I apologize for a dog that's fine too. But I even though all right honey hole. So both Mom and Dad. I'm gonna do both Mom and Dad. I want you to starting when I snap my fingers, I want you to raise your And when you think it's been one minute, okay,
ready. And then you can you can proceed as normal Katie. Okay. How do you how do you deal with this? I don't know ask the question while they're estimating with it. Yeah, alright. So starting out who are hyper vote listening, If you could both give one piece of advice to anybody who is struggling with being in a relationship with somebody with ADHD or understanding their own ADHD or like me living with ADHD and depression, which is like the double whammy of fun.
Like what what would you say like what is like the wisdom that you would impart having loved each other for 30 years? About ourselves or our as relationships, just whatever you want to saying reform. Do you want to go first or do you want me to time? I have. I think an answer I'm mulling it over. So if you're ready you can go. Well I can bring it. Oh no. All right so I'll go well you think I think for me the key is deciding about deciding what I
really want minute I'd say. To say what do I really mean it, maybe it's pick your battles, maybe it's like sort of says, what systems do not want to degrade, you know, that's my dad. Always says, if you degrade any system long enough it will stay out. Right? So so to the to extend that marriage is a system. What's really important in it to you to not have it fail? So what's really important to me? And it turns out really, not that many things are really, really important to me.
So what's really important? And remember that, when you're faced with a lot of chaos coming at you, yeah, like is important to be yelling at your computer from your your partner when you should want to know. When you should be. Alright, cool, dad. And same question to you guys. And then I'm going to tell you your test results.
I would say, I would say that we are also a system is as well as I mean, if I'm not in the sense that we're individuals and our brains are a system, are our minds and we break ourselves all the time through the voices. We talk to ourselves you know and those voices I've discovered And are generally - they're
generally critical. They're generally judgmental and harmful and even You might say, I feel happy, I feel good that that that guy, that guy smile to me that girl's mind of that person, smile to me, whatever it is and you're related for a second because some external force made you feel good about yourself. It's taking years but I'm learning that I've got stopping my worst critic that I've got to embrace myself and embrace all that I am. And we're all I would say that. ADHD is not a fault.
It is a gift. I had a magnificent life because of it. I love it. I just love it but but I'm not perfect and I never have strong over. I'm not know. I know, I know you think I am but I'm not and so many people strive for Perfection and the thing is, we are all wonderfully beautifully imperfect and how boring it would you ever meet anybody? Who thought they were perfect? They're assholes. You don't even want to know. Those people. So it's just stop telling
yourself. You're a piece of shit, because plenty of other people are going to do that for you. Anyway. Whether they are. So just because yourself some slack and gift shows, you saw yourself some self love and respect and have a great life. Really, it's great out here. Kumbaya Kumbaya gooey. Wonderful. Well, so in turn into your minute guesses. Thank you. Katie for putting up with this mom or sorry. Dad. You are eight seconds under you called. It s under 52 seconds.
Very impressive, very impressive. I was mom over Fiona's. Did you just forgot? And it's God did not raise it. Now expect that and expect that you were for you or 40 seconds over. Yeah well alright so we do have to wrap up but my brain is going to multitask. I'm just that's true. That's true. I'm lying. It's also bad as iron. So last question for both of you short answers, if you would, yes, I'm ready.
The short answer is, we got her over, if you could know, you know, Magic wave a magic wand and just know every language in the world completely fluently in alimony, or with magic wand and become virtuosic at every instrument in the world, which would you choose? But music is the language. That's we the first kind of been bringing you another and Brainard episode. I was like it will do music is the universal language. He goes no Eric literally universal language is the universal language.
The other option is literally universal language Captain, that's fine. I might answer it was in 2008 when you got a question. Maybe language every language Korea was that? Because I get to talk to everybody in the world and see how Al about them with instruments. You just played maybe play with other people you but you don't know what the fuck you're saying they're going. What the fuck does that mean? I don't even know what that tuba means. So I like communicating with people.
I loved it. I speak fluent Spanish because it's opened up an entire continent, some of the border and also Spain. And I've all over both of those places and I just love the people and I wish I spoke my language is. Hmm, people are great people suck. I would choose, I would choose music because what I would really choose in terms of an instrument is voice. If I could sing. Yeah, be in community with other people who could sing, you could have pulled that media was going to say.
If you were to pull your virtuosic and every instrument and voices, absolutely an instrument, then you would be able to sing. And why You be able to sing in every language your mom sold it? She solved the riddle. Well now she hits type question, is she watching? That's true but I'm sorry. Mom, you were giving a legit answer and know that that was it, you said be brief.
That was my answer. I would I would choose music because I would choose Boyce and I feel like, you know, all the other community with people in a way where I didn't necessarily need to talk to them. sometimes talking to people is exhausting, so there's my depression and all those things but music also gets through my rational linear brain and Does some well, Mom and Dad. Thanks for being on our little podcast. It was very fun. This is what your son does for a
living. I really this was a lot of fun and I'm thinking just love you so much. Not you are mom, really thanks for understanding. Of course, my let's let's eat dinner because where I keep my stomach, my stomach grumbles are going to start getting picked up by the mic night. Good night, everybody. Morning everybody. Thank you, Josh banana, thank you, Nicole, but after I thank you, Mary. But, um, pop, you're the newest Patron, save the world.
Well, you're the newest Patron, maybe Josh, you Nicole, maybe Joshua. Corpo I used to better call. There are more poor tune the world from that. If patreon.com There are more poor tune the world from that. If patreon.com