Medication

Hi everybody. It's me, Katie Source. Hello. Hi, and it's me. Who died. Welcome back to infinite Quest. What can you do that again but just we both say if it was the same time. Yeah. Okay ready. Hi everybody. It's me. Katie asaurus Haynes be a good, welcome back to infinite quests. So refill most this we gonna fit a quest. We're going to be talking about medication, but before we start, we just wanted to let you know that. Hey, we have a patreon.

It's patreon.com infinite Quest and becoming a patreon means supporting our mission of education and advocacy. And if you like what we do, if we've helped you out a little B, all, you know, this consider becoming a Buckaroo buddy. I'm going to say that, as high as I possibly can top a little bit of that cheddar cheese is the most radio disc jockey if it's pretty cool. Okay, so watch what about you transition? All right. You know what? It's funny because we decided to

record it all at one time. So, there's no break relate. Also that sorry. Sorry. We're solely. It's a long story, but it's also relevant to the topic of this week's episode is Kate mentioned. We're going to be talking with medication, but real quick. Huge disclaimer, neither Katie, nor I, our doctors do not change your meds. Don't start taking meds. Or stop taking meds, without talking to your doctor. Always, always, always go

through your doctor. Do not take anything that Katie and Ice are about to say as like, oh, I'm going to totally change my entire thing with my meds because meds or a big deal and you should talk to him. Qualified professional before. Making alterations to your medication. Yeah, we're not here to give you advice about your medication.

What we are here? What we are trying to do with this episode, is talk about our experience with medication and our relationship to our medication because we think that's an important conversation, but we are not doctors. We don't know how I mean. Eric knows how much work. But like we, we're not here to tell you to change your medication, so don't do that. Anyways anyways. Well Kate so why is it that we didn't record the episode yesterday?

And well because I spent two hours crying on my kitchen floor, because there was a little pile of crump's and then slightly to the left of it. There's another pile of crumbs and I was sad that the power of crumbs were not together. It was, it was, I mean, as much as well. I was saying this yesterday, like I said, this in the worst possible way but like, I, Seeing you cry. Looks like this. Like obviously I don't like when you're crying, but if you're crying that means you need to be

crying. You know, I'd rather you be needing to cry and cry. The next when I see you crying, it's like I'm glad that you're releasing, you know, whatever you need to be releasing. I'm not glad that you're crying but I'm like cool. I'm glad you feel. Yeah. I suppose a better way of saying that sentence would be. I started antidepressants. That's that's what I was supposed to say about was making A joke because it was so ridiculous.

I had a full-on fucking meltdown about a pile of dirt on my floor and it was very silly. Well, I think you're you're doing. So I take another person's as well. Like I have a very long and storied relationship with what you're going to tell her a time

I suppose. Yeah. With taking medications for mental health, things and figuring out what to take and how to take them and, you know, strategies to make them work, the best for me and all that stuff in, from my perspective, you're doing great. I mean, your being It's about how you're feeling. You're dating communicating baby day for baby but I'm really proud of you for that. It's not easy thing to do.

It's been weird. I think one of the hardest things about when you're taking a new medication is remembering that you're taking a new medication. Yeah. So like if your mood is going up and then down and then left and then right? And I'm the big curly q thing. Like when I take when I started taking like my ADHD medication, it was really hard for me to remember first of us 15 but was really hard for me to remember that. Like oh, That's right.

Like I'm going through this whole new thing of discovering. How this medication is going to work for me or if it's going to work for me. And so it's really hard for like, you know, later in the day when I was coming off a medication or coming down for my medication and I would get like, really depressed or something like that. It was really hard for me to remember like, oh that's right. All these dark thoughts that I'm having are all these whatever isn't like, I'm taking a new medication.

This is New Territory, this isn't just me you know freaking out. And all of a sudden that When who I am? I mean, my feelings are valid. All feelings are valid, but I think it's really important to remember like, oh, this is like a test phase. Like this is New Territory and I think you're doing it really well and little Gratis well. Okay, so here's my question.

So I have been on medication for significantly less time than you respectively, three years and four days for ADHD and depression, where as you sort of taking meds when you were 15, 15, okay? So, what is your relationship to medication, like, Like God, what is the what is the role it's played like in your life. Um it's kind of a complicated relationship like it's a really a storied and complicated

relationship. There have been times when I'm like holy shit, I can't believe I ever existed without taking this medication and there are some times when I thought like this is the worst thing I've ever done when he's charging to how dare I you know start taking these medications to better my life but When I first started one of the hardest parts about taking a medication for mental health thing and I get this question. A lot is, how do you know what

it's supposed to be doing. Yeah that's because I up until I forgot medicated I had always had unmedicated ADHD so I had no connection to what having a brain that is capable of folks. Like I didn't know what that feels like and so when I first started taking them Um, I started no lower dose and then you started ramping it up and there was a period of time.

When I now know, looking back. I was definitely taking way too much for me of the medication that I was taking but I didn't know that I just figured oh, you know, this is what it's like to have. You know, my ADHD be treated but

looking back. I now know holy shit like I was like my whole day was just contextualized by this medication, doing what it wants with some with my body and I it wasn't like a Controlled. I mean it was controlled in that you know it was very well planned by my doctor but like you know the analogy of medication being like a power

tool. Like I it was basically like I was just like dual-wielding like takes you like do I like chainsaws like shooting fire and like and you don't like my grades were got much better because you know I was still you know, it wasn't so much. Like, I couldn't get things done, you know, but trying to figure out what you're going for when you're starting a new medication is one of the hardest parts. And for me, it took cheese.

I mean easily three years. I want to say maybe four to get to the point where I like my vacation where like I feel my goal is in terms of taking a mental mental to it. It's really cold here. I just change my clothes and then I just choked on my own spit. When I sat back down, I was so proud of myself for being sneaky. You did so, well, I had to have it really proud of myself. Oh, yeah, but it took me like

easily, like 3 or 4 years. To get to where I wanted to be with medication, or what, my what I now know, to be like a good place for me. Mmm, is basically I take them and I just like, don't even notice them. Except for the fact that quails my ADHD. / depression symptoms, like my antidepressants when I take them.

The only thing that I notice in terms of side effects is well, the only thing I notice in terms of the effects of the medication is, wow, I haven't been blackening lie in crippling the depressed 14. Times a day in the last couple weeks. Yeah. And that's a good place. And so, similar with the ADHD meds, when I first started, the side effects were like the main thing, like, sure. I could focus, but I never ate. I slept super weirdly. My moods were all over the

place. I hated, like talking to my friends. I just found them like annoying and boring. Whereas, now when I take them, it's just like, oh, I can get my work done. Now that's cool. And it took me a long time to get there, and it takes a lot of trust in other people. Well, a lot of honesty with yourself and other people just to sort of try to track what you're doing. It's not, It Ain't Easy Being Cheesy. But for me, I think it was very much work it worth.

It took a long time to get to a place where I think I have a healthy relationship with my meds, but it took a while, but I'm glad I did it. Have you ever gone off your meds? Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean the American Health Care system is such Ahead. I mean I haven't in terms of taking my meds, I haven't had like the same psychiatrist in the same pharmacy from for like more than a year at a time like is a cut at once or twice a year. My psychiatrist will get a private practice.

So I had to find a new psychiatrist that takes my insurance or my insurance will be different for some reason and it now no longer covers the this form of the medication. So I have to go across the city to get to this day out. It's a whole fuckery thing. So anyways, yeah. Is there a lot of times when I've gone off my medication and it's a good reminder of like, oh, that's right. That's why I did all that work. Yeah. So to find medication. That works for me, particularly

my antidepressants. Like, if I go off my ADHD meds, it's not great. But, you know, I'm physically safe. You know? Yeah. But if I go off my depression meds, that's a really big deal like that, that doesn't fly. I mean, you see, if my I flew to California, Because you were awesome. I'm so worried about you. So one of us wide, that's true. Well, how do you how are you? So you're on day 4 of a new medication and that's, that's a weird place to be. It's really weird.

I don't like it. Like I feel bad saying that, because I feel like anybody listening is going to be like actively discouraged. And I want to be very clear, like this is one of the healthiest decisions that I've made for myself in a very long time. And it's something that I've been considering for a long time and quite frankly, something that my psychiatrist or mice Psychologist I guess had been like just like hey so depression, meds depression meds.

But I had a really, really bad experience when I was in college a terrible experience and like I like sorry I still. So I was like really hesitant to start but like it's you know all the research is like I did a bunch of research adjective bunch of reading and stuff and like I was like okay like for like I'm really worried about tomorrow. I'm really nervous for tomorrow because apparently the particular Occasion that I'm on. Has like a, like a three to

four-day like honeymoon, period. We're like, okay, like you're adjusting like whatever and supposedly like day five or six is like there's like a crash and I'm really nervous for that but like it's been really interesting for a couple of different reasons like one because like I'm actually feeling things which to me is bad which I know is like funny to say but like I've Either like I'm like fucking flying right

now. Like yes, let's make a podcast but I also know that and there's something that my doctor talk to me about. She was like, okay, so here's the thing, like, you're going to get the meds and you're going to like really quickly cycle, like, you're going to cycle through, like, ups and downs and ups and downs.

Just like your, your Chemistry, basically evens out, but it's like two weeks and so like, I don't know, it's just been really weird because like I'm going through like a lot of stuff like all the same time like I'm going through this like period of like adjusting to like okay I have to remember to take this med like at the same time every day which I fucked up. I want to be very clear for days in a row. I'm feeling things which is sort of new and interesting.

I'm also like feeling things in a way. We're like the lows are very low and the high is are really. Are you doing calling my hair? Did? I saw comb? It's at it's called utilization bit is over but it's but it's also like. But what's really interesting is like I'm it feels like it sounds like I'm complaining and what I'm actually doing is I'm saying like this is fucking awesome. You know what I mean?

Like I don't word it's hard. And that's the thing is like I feel like I'm so hesitant to Talk about stuff because I don't want somebody listening to go like, oh well I'm not going to take I'm not going to seek out and it presents because you know, Kate said that it's hard but like, I feel like that's the point a little like it not the point but like it like it would be great if it wasn't hard but it is. And I think like that's like part of the process and like you

know what I mean? Yeah. I think another weird thing about it is it's not hard in like, you know, running a marathon Is harsher here. Sophie now I'm trying to dampen the sound in the room. I'm adding to the the floof in the rooms really good. Could you hear that? Go, go down another, where's Sophie great? But it's not like running a marathon hard like running. A marathon is super hard, but it's simple. It's like you have to run 24 miles. Like that's what it is.

But taking a mental health medication, it's weird. It's because you're basically thinking like a computer that has malware on it. Yeah. Trying to diagnose the malware but the, it's the Some itself. Like it's a broken thing. Trying to think not to say that your brain is real good. But like no, no, you mean, your truck, your truck. The thing that is changing is trying to figure out what the changing about it.

Yeah. In real time and it's fucking weird and that's why it's really important to have other people around you, remind you that you're taking a new medication, remind you of how you felt yesterday or the day before. That was one thing that was really helpful to me, is when I start, taking a new medication, I write door either write down or just take a very fucking strong.

Mental note of what my doctor says is going to happen because your doctor will say, like, oh, you're in a cycle through a bunch of different emotions. The first couple days, but when you're actually cycling through those, those, those emotions, like your brain is the thing that's having the emotion. Yes. And so it's hard to for your brain to rein in any way objective. I was the wind chimes. I thought it was the doorbell. I thought it was like a, like a tornado sirens like you to rebut

some podcast. Tornado right now, sweet, as the wind chimes, know, when I picked up my prescription at the pharmacy, the pharmacist laughed and was like good luck. That really goes a goddamn, could you be a little bit more ominous? Please like Cheese's? I was like, I was like, all right, but like, yeah, I don't know. It's weird.

And and I think part of it, too is because like, even like my relationship to my ADHD, meds is so Resting because I started off taking my ADHD meds, like, every single day like I was like, you know, my doctor's. Like, all right, take them every single day. Here we go.

Then we realized that like that wasn't working in the conventional way because my schedule is so hard as an actor because like my schedule wasn't 925, my schedule was 9 to 10 or 11 or 12 or 1 or 2 or 3. So we had to like figure out a different system and that basically just meant taking meds twice a day for my ADHD, but then it was like, well, okay, that's so much ADHD medication so can you take days off? So then I was like taking weekends off for a while.

Then I then it was like, okay well I don't like I hesitate to say this because again, I am not a doctor. Talk to your doctor in conversation with changing your

meds. But what I realized was that I was actually more comfortable not taking meds every single day and so like in conversation with my doctor, we figured out a system that works for me, which is that I most of the time, take like an extended-release rather than like the regular kind because then it means that like I've got like I have assistant throughout the day but it's less of like an immediate thing which is which is sort of like what we settled on but it took two or

three. oh, three tries, you know, to get there but in conversation with that like, that was, that was that was like a lot to like handle all at one time because it was just consistently like a week of like, okay, this is working her a month of like, okay, this is not working or whatever, so it's just been, it's been really weird all of a sudden now having to start that process completely over but with something that's so much profoundly more about like how I feel You know what I

mean? Because like with like with like ADHD meds, it's like, okay I'm getting stuff done and then I'm crashing or I'm not crashing and my sleep schedule is all fucked up because like I'm just on like stimulant medication. Whereas like with depression medication it is absolutely predicated on like being depressed and so it's been really weird. Yeah it's much less like that is any sense at all? Yeah. Like I just like yammered know not every it's much less

measurable. Yeah. HD. Like, you can look at my grades. Yeah. And they change my started getting Medicaid. Yeah. Both depression. Like you can measure depression, you know, you can write down how you feel, score your days on one to ten and all that, but it's less measurable in that. Like it's not like lists of things that you get done. It's just like how do you feel which is entirely subjective?

Like for example, what I before I got medicated for depression, a good day was a day where I didn't actively want to. Kill myself. That's like a good day and then when I started taking my antidepressants my understanding of what a good day was changed. Yeah.

So so the scale was changing and then when I get up and go off of it, my medication if my, if my, you know, Insurance flux off, or if my psychiatrist fucks off, then might that might do the scale with which or by which I measure my mood then changes. So will go off my medication and Stark difference and is immediately. Wow, I'm really depressed now but then I get like used to that and then I'll start getting back

into that mode. We're like oh a day where I don't actually want to kill myself is a good day and then I'll be like, oh why was I even taking depression meds, I feel fine. And I have to remind myself. No, you do not. This is not what fine looks like dude do you there's a better world out there and that was another thing with medic with within a person's is like I remember I asked my I was referred from depressions by my

therapist. At the time, I remember asking them and the psychiatrist, how much of this medication working depends on my belief that it's going to, you know, if I take his meds really interesting. Yeah, and I was really scared that. Like what if my cynicism which has been like, you know, my Nemesis in life is yeah.

Cynicism like what if my cynicism is so strong that even if this medication is doing what it's supposed to like I deny it and I'm like, no this is just You know, because depression is sneaky motherfucker, you know you can feel good but like that's bad too because you're like, oh I feel good but soon I'm not. Oh God. Yeah, like I don't trust Joy. Um but that fuck. Where was I was I saying cynicism cynicism station?

Oh yeah. And so like with depression meds, which is in my case remembering that like there's more out there, you know, like You don't have to just like think of as a good day. As not wanting to kill yourself all day. Like it's possible to have like a good day. That's better than zero like a good day. That's actively really good. Not just not bad. Yeah. And maintaining that belief remembering that that's out there. Helped me a lot when I was first taking anti-depressant medication.

Like remembering that like oh I'm not just trying to be okay.

I'm trying to be good you know and depression meds just shouldn't be listening to us. I've heard this a couple times in my life and it's really, it really It's one of those things that somebody kind of says to be like sort of dismissive and funny but really just makes them look really dumb but when we will called depression medication happy pills it's like that is not gonna work, you don't take them and then you're happy, that's not what happens like it for me.

The way that I describe it is like if I'm off my medication for depression, I know there's an ADHD podcast but it's all related, it felt sort of like like a platform jump. Pin game. We're like, I was constantly had to spend like 40% of my energy jumping from like, okay? Oh gosh and all around me, are there these like deep holes that I'm liable to fall into at any moment?

And suddenly, my day is just, dude, I'm like depressed for the next fucking four years or whatever, the depression meds just make those holes, much smaller, you know. So like now I don't have to spend so much energy, just trying to be okay all the time and I can focus on spending. That energy doing things that I like, and like doing things that make my life good. Not just like passable.

Yeah. And I think that's really important to bring up. It depression meds aren't just like, at least for me I got it. I want to you know medications are very complicated, human bodies are very complicated but generally speaking. I was worried that I was gonna like lose part of myself when I started taking antidepressants. Yeah, and I really didn't, I just wasn't. So I didn't have to spend so much energy all the time just being Breathing person. What am I questions?

And this is something that I've been thinking about a lot is like, so Monday for and like I said earlier, like I have religiously fucked it up four times in a row and and so what I'm realizing is like one of the biggest struggles for me with ADHD is like getting into a new system, like having a new system and, and like habits and stuff are really hard for me to develop with ADHD. But like one of the things I think is like even more daunting is like, they're like, ADHD is

absolutely. Well, at least my ADHD, like really relies a lot of times and like, instant gratification, like, I'll get something done or I'll do something because like, I know I'm going to get that like immediate dopamine, hit up, like all I sent the email or finish the task or whatever.

But like when I started, you know, when I had the conversation with my doctor she was like I need you to understand that like you have to Check with this, for at least a couple of months like this is not like a, you start taking them in a week or fine. Like this is a, your body needs at least two to four weeks to, like, even out get your levels like to where they will be on this medication. And then after that, like, if it's working or not working, we

can like adjust the dosage. But it's like you have to stick it out and that's so daunting to me. Yeah. Like that's the part that I'm the most freaked out. Out about because it's like, you know, it's like I know that right now I'm in that like, really early, like my shit is just evening out, whatever. But it's like they're there is no instant gratification with antidepressants the way that I think there is for ADHD man's.

Because like, I remember the first time that I took my ADHD medication and it was like 20 minutes later my life changed. Yeah. Oh yeah, you know, it was like oh this Lee works I instantly under like I was like this is what it's like to function and I can fight God like so. So that is something that I'm really struggling with, right? Yeah, yeah. Absolute like, with with ADHD medication, when I first heard Jake, mmmm, I think you sort of

just touched on this experience. But you're, you're observing the process of a day? Yeah, every day is a new data point. Yeah, you know. So it started taking effect at this point. But then it didn't wear off until too late. So I didn't get to sleep until what it really like you know, every little every day is a new little thing that you get to watch happen. Which is absolutely not the case with depression medication, which is why I think it's really

important to have people around. Yeah, thanks carrying and getting those folks. This is my pleasure. I'm so sorry that I just keep crying on you. Hey, no, dude. All right on you so much. Soak a little wet spot on your shoulder for actually do.

I can feel it actually do. But I think is especially if you have depression and ADHD like oh my gosh I'm not just going to take this and then feel but like that is a terrifying experience awful and having other people around to you know, to tell things to who can remember the things is really helpful because like you might not notice not, you specifically kidding you but one might not notice that, you know, you have way more energy

now than you did this, you know, past week or something like that because you're the person who's changing Aging and so having people outside, including your doctor too much to watch you and monitor you is, I think vitally important when it when it comes to specifically especially when it comes to medication that are going to take a long time to take effect. You want to know what the weirdest part is? What's that is that I feel, okay?

Like that's the weirdest part is is like and it's like and it's very much like cops and downs like it's not like it's by no means even out at this point. But like yesterday we went to Ikea, there was this there there's that moment where you're like riding on the cart and I we were just being like Jack. Yeah Kia and I like I had this like very real profound moment of like I'm gonna cry because like I said it's a cycle but I had this like very Real profound moment of like I'm so happy.

Like I'm so happy to be here. I'm so like and I was like laughing and it was like I haven't laughed like that in years like in years and like that was part of. It was like I keep having these moments of like I'm so happy and I know that it's like The the, you know, the peak before the valley of like and then I'm going to cry about how happy I am or whatever and have a breakdown on a, as is couch because they're out of sofa legs.

But like, you know what I mean, like that has been that has honestly, it's been eye-opening. Like it's, it hasn't been that long but just that like holy shit like I forgot that like I can be happy and that's almost like It's like Bittersweet, you know what I mean? Like it's just been it's just been really interesting. Yeah, I might sort of my mom has depressions where I get it from and she Has talked to me about.

She didn't realize how much of an absent mother she was before she got Medicaid. I didn't notice how I just remember. No, my mom as being a loving. Wonderful person, your mom's the best. She's pretty great, but she said like, as she was feeling better from her / from starting her medication, she realized, like, holy shit. I've been so fucking sad for so many years like she missed out. Ah, no, she feels that I don't want to say you know, say that these things are objectively

true. But she feels that she missed out on certain like years of mine. My brother's life because she was just fucking depressed. So depressed, she couldn't get out of bed and that is really Bittersweet. And I think that was sort of part of my fear when I first started taking depression meds was so my mom is depression, my dad is ADHD, they were interviewed on our podcast last Go check it out. It's one of my favorite episodes of ever.let's great, your

parents are so cool. I hope they start their own podcast. I hope you to hug on the road with Dorsey and Carl. Yeah. But my dad, the analogy, they sometimes use is like my dad was sort of like my mom's cheerleader. You know when her depression become rear its head, my dad would be like let's go to Prague look Susan hey you ever go to a minor league baseball game before, they're called the lug nuts and that's true. Two-story Lansing Lugnuts, go lug nuts. I fucking love of minor league.

Baseball game, that's a true story. Sweetest baseball game is secondary to all the weird activities. There's like hot dog races and shit. So much fun. I love it. But my parents relationship is very strong which I'm very grateful for it. I'm lucky to have been born to them.

My their relationship is very strong but the one time when they really had to like restructure their relationship and figure, Stuff that serious stuff out was when my mom started taking antidepressants because now that function that my dad served to being a cheerleader was was less necessary, which was great. But it required, something is required re-evaluating, you know, their roles in each other's lives, which they did because they're wonderful people. But that was terrifying.

Like, I've always known my parents marriage as being very strong, very complicated and it like it was worked for to be as strong as it is. But knowing that these antidepressants Shook, my parents relationship was like, fuck. That's right. Oh well boobs. I mean, all for the better, you know, everything takes work. Growth takes work, I do when I'm scared, I didn't even think about that. But you're right like, oh man, fuck fuck. Hey, bubs. It's gonna be okay by now.

The okay, we should do a commercial break or something. Yeah. Hey, everybody. Did you know that Katie? And I both have twitch channels, twitch.tv slash kto Source but the 0 is 0. Its some mother Fucker, sleep, Katie Source. If you're out there, I'm Coming For You. Stating I said, I think it's me and I'm twitch.tv slash. Hey, goood, we stream every weekday. Katie at 11:30 Eastern and me at 12:30 Eastern. I'm like, I'm like the chaos after show.

That's a really great time. We hang out, we talk about your eye open for. You depends on how you look. I can see how it's done. I like to consider. I'm I'm your opener. Yeah, no. Yeah, come on by. I'm also going to start streaming more Minecraft lately. So Eric, so good at Minecraft you guys. Oh shucks, I love watching. Eric play Minecraft, I'm getting there. Thank you very much, but come on by, it's a really great time.

Also, we have a patreon patreon.com infinite Quest if you want to come help support us and make it so that we can pay for things like salmon panels and and microphone for we do. Stable is so squishy. It is a very squishy table. A very squishy table, very squishy. Tables are all also. Did you know K that we're going on tour? What? Yeah. I mean we're going to the Quad Cities in a week. Oh my gosh. We are two weeks a week or so my ADHD is is in such denial about

that. Like it's I'm not going to actually feel like that's happening until we know, we're gonna be like on the plane and I'm gonna be like I'll fuck shit. We're gonna to do we have to do this, it's gonna be great. I want to see when and where we're going to be head on over to infinite Quest podcast.com and click on toward egg that we're doing the commercial break. I know it feels weird that we're in the middle. These afterwards but he's going

to do it all at once. It's fine we'll do it live. Okay well okay so it's about I don't know actually it could be 15 minutes it could be 45 on how long you think we've been recording for. 40 minutes. Oh, very close 33. Okay, that's pretty close. Um, so I think it would be cool if we talked about medication strategies because again, we are not doctors, we're not doctors, we don't know things.

Do not change your medication without talking people, um, but like I don't, I feel like that we should just swap the Habs around because, like one of the things that I want to talk about is just like like the approach to medication. Because somebody commented some you know when somebody comments sometimes like on one of your videos and it just like sticks with you and you just like, think about it. Oh yeah, somebody caught the sea.

So I did this video about medication is a tool is a tool that is right for somebody. Some people and it is not right for other people in there. Different, kinds of medications in there are different ways of using medication and like it can be in conversation with therapy or support groups or like there's so many different ways to use medication as a tool, but It is just that it is a tool. It is a morally neutral tool is not admitting failure. It is not admitting weakness.

It is just a tool that some people need in order to like live there most effective life and somebody commented on that video and it was like one comment out of like quite a few comments. The video was a hit but the comment was I don't. Want like so I made the metaphor that I was using was like, it is a literal to I was talking about like, a reciprocating saw and I said, you know, like it's right for some jobs, not right, for others.

And this person commented and they said, well, I don't want to have to use a reciprocating saw to get things done for the rest of my life. So, I want to build up my muscles so I can do it myself and I cannot stop thinking about that comment. Like that comment just stuck with me. This idea that like I don't want to take medication for the rest of my life.

So I'm going to choose to not take medication even though can improve my quality of life because I don't want to have to have that like commitment and I don't I don't I don't know what what I think about that. Yeah. It's strange because I also know that was the worst explanation I've ever given. No it was not, it hurts my ear hurts. Like behind my ear and it's all I can think about is like those are wonderful X. My glasses are pushing on the part that hurts.

It also breaks down the metaphor a little bit because if you're trying you can't saw a board without a tool right now. Like you can't do a sawing thing. Like I guess what they were trying to say was I want to build muscle so I can use a hand saw I guess rather than which is still a tool. So he's still using a tool like props for sticking with the analogy here. Commenter. But you know, but also I mean, I

fundamentally get the idea. That you one might not want to have to rely on an external thing because you might not have access to it later or whatever and certainly you don't have to take medicate. Like nobody should force you to to take, you know, antidepressants but well I guess I have a question is just Why, you know why what's the point?

It's like you're trying to prove something yeah, why wouldn't you do the thing integrated Again, I'm not saying this person should be but they're not, you know, that's not up to me but it, honestly, you know, honestly, I'm just going to, I'm just going to go ahead and fucking say it. It reeks of toxic masculinity. Exactly what I was like it reeks of Tosca. Toxic masculine, and boy.

And that's the thing is like the, the more that I've sort of, like, started this process of, like, talking and educating and advocating about mental health, and I realizes this is like, honestly what I'm about to say is just it all it just reeks of fucking privilege because I just Didn't know things for too long. But like just the weird object stigma of medication when it comes to mental health. Yeah. It's like, if you have bronchitis, you go and you get

antibiotics. If you have a heart condition, people happily take medication, but the minute it's a conversation about mental health, it's like, oh well, you're just not trying hard enough or your your week or you're giving up or you're looking for an easy way out and it's like do you know how hard I had to work to get on antidepressants like yes, the asking part was easy because I'm an adult and I just had a conversation with my doctor but

like the personal growth required to get to the point where I was able to like sort of like unpack. My own like internalized ableism and be like oh fuck I'm not okay and like I need this. Tool this boost like it takes a profound amount of work I think. And it, and it just baffles me that there is still this like, prevalent attitude. That it's like, well, anybody taking mental health medication is just like given up or lazy or just not trying hard enough or whatever and I'm like, dude what?

Yeah, it's straight doesn't make any like the logic behind. It is just so strange to me. Yes, I'm gonna hear all the time to is the goal is to get off the medication which again, especially as an alcoholic. I understand not wanting to have to be reliant on an external thing that can go away. Yeah. Like that's there's a vulnerability inherently involved in that like like, you know, Iron Man without his suit, you know, it'd be cool if Iron Man just had superpowers, but you needed a suit.

It's like I get that but I hear a lot about the goal being to get off the antidepressants or to get off the ADHD medication like you need. It for a little while like a cast on your leg until it gets better, but that's we don't apply that. Same logic to other things.

Like if you have high blood pressure or whatever, or if you have a heart, murmur, whatever you're taking medication for a physical ailment, like sure, if at some point in your life, you end up being like oh looks like my blood pressure is fine without a medication that like that's but we don't think about that will like you just take the medications that you need to be

okay. It's weird that we apply that to mental health medication and I think it's very strongly rooted in. Just the idea of weakness. Yeah you give the like you're weak. Therefore you need. This thing suit will eventually if you have the the balls or whatever you'll be strong and then you won't need them. I just don't understand that argument like, either I understand that argument, but it and it's it is, I think it's rooted so much in.

I don't want to say like, toxic masculinity, but like just talk. Sexism like as a whole, like, it is just a wholesale, toxic idea. Like the other day, I got an email from somebody who has ADHD like they're they're absolutely sure that they have ADHD and they also are suffering from like depression and they wanted their, they don't want to go get screened. And I was like, okay well, why not?

And they said the reason why I don't want to get screened is because I Thinking about leaving my husband. And if I get screened for depression and ADHD, my husband is going to use that against me in trying to get the kids. Whoa, and I looked into it and apparently that is really common, like, taking mental health medication is often used against people in situations like that.

That's so weird because they're taking the medication, you know, like If you had untreated the thing but like the by nature of them, taking the medication its treated, but it's, but it's one of the reasons why people are unwilling to seek diagnosis is because mental health diagnoses are often used against people in court, huh? Especially it is like, and it's like, once you start going like, and it's honestly, like, I swear to God. So I've been looking at schools,

right? I'm looking at schools because I want to go back and maybe become a But I found I started doing research and I went down this long Rabbit Hole of like, all these different court cases and and I found out that there's a specific program that is just about policy and like, advocacy. And I was like, I think I was like, I'm only, I'm literally thinking about switching Majors just to become like a professional like advocate in like legal situation. That's cool. A friend of mine.

Shut up Melissa. Hi Mel. Bow. If you're listening I that you are but hi. She She used to be the owner of the LARPing. LARPing company, a community, whatever that I involved with. But she's from, she's a lawyer and her passion. Our is immigration rights. Yeah. But the skilled of place where she felt thought she could be most useful as like. Oh if I have the skills of a lawyer that I can use those skills to help, you know, immigrants be treated fairly.

And well I think that sounds very similar like I think your passion is mental health advocacy but like you're getting more Tools in your Toolkit. That's cool. Also, I can't become a lawyer though because Lon, my mom will finally have gotten what she wanted. Most you one of my whole life. Another thing will little topic change, but I want to talk about it. One of the really hard things about taking a medication for

mental health. Is that there are so many variables that change that can change your mental health. How much you're eating, how much you're sleeping, how much you're drinking the weather. Like, there's so many different things that can have an effect on your mental health. And if you're doing any given sciency thing, you want to isolate your variables, you want to figure out specifically what

variables have what effect. And so when taking a medication something that I think is very important is trying to I mean these are things are always important but particularly for Gamification is making sure that you're eating regularly sleeping reasonably regularly. Doing other things which are

already really fucking hard. Especially if you're getting medicated for something, that makes those things very difficult, but I think that's crucially, important is, you know, whatever the amount of food You're supposed to have in your stomach when you eat when you take the pill, you know, make sure that that's consistent. I think that can be really, really hard but for me, especially with ADHD, it was kind of funny. I remember when I first started got Medicaid for ADHD.

Is November 9th 2009, love that you know the deal us a life-changing day I mean I know the date but I was also just because it was my birthday, let's chose really remember but I was taking I would take notes. I would take the morning and then class I was doing the class stuff but I would take notes on,

what's Happening? I was like okay, it's you know, 8:30 because high school starts ridiculously early, you know, it's 8:30 and you know, I'm sitting in class and German class and I'm interested in a detention and chewing like good. And then I would do the next one. Like, all right, now it's 10 like still feeling good. Like I, you know, I know I'm hungry, but I don't feel the urge to eat. That's weird. You know, I'll be take notes and then, at some point, during the

day, I would stop taking notes. And that's how I knew that the medication was wearing off. So, it was a really weird thing of your, the thing that is changing is monitoring itself. The thing that's changing. Yeah. And that is so fucking weird and anything you can do to minimize, external factors complications hunger.

And then in hydration and stuff. Like when I first started taking ADHD minutes, one of the things that took the longest for me to notice was a lot of them, decide effects that I thought were from, the medication were actually like tertiary side effects. You know, the fact that I wasn't eating was what was making my brain feel fuzzy at five.

Yeah. And so, over the years, I learned, oh, I have to eat consistently, I have to make sure I'm drinking water first thing in the morning instead of coffee and like, all that kind of stuff. And that though that was sort of the process of getting This tool to work as best for me is possibly could in.

After Jesus over a decade, holy schnikeys now it's a sort of second nature like now like I have a different relationship with the feeling of hunger now because like, it's very strange, but I think trying to keep those things consistent is vitally important and doing those things alone is much more difficult than doing them not along. So having like a confidant or, you know, a therapist, something like that to talk to you about those things can be really helpful.

Will having an external thing that's not changing with the medication? I I just got like so sciency about this for a second. Well like one of the things that I think is really interesting though about that conversation is how many people with ADHD and other neurodiversity diverge? Oh my God. Fuck anyway, the word that I say all the time every single day in order to understand that that's the one but also I can't talk good now, like that's fine.

I keep forgetting words. Real that's like a new thing like yeah. What did I forget? This morning. Architect. Yeah, I couldn't remember the word I keep forgetting like words, it's weird. Thanks for letting me know. Yeah, I just I just noticed that like I was just like, fuck but anyway, interceptive like just senses like what's going on

inside your body? Like that's something that a lot of neurodivergent people really struggle with anyway and I struggle with that so much like the like, especially hunger like feeling hunger, I like feeling hunger and feeling full is something that I just like, I don't. It's my my sense of that, it's like all fun. Stop. And so like in conversation with with like, especially stimulant meds. I'm always like, why do I feel like garbage?

And it's like, oh because I haven't eaten in three days, like, it's really challenging and I think that like what you said is really good solution, is just like you, you got it, you got it. Just think about it, in terms of like, scheduling out your day, even if you don't feel hungry, gotta be something. Got you will snacks back, you

gotta drink water like whatever. Hmm, But yeah, I was just thinking about like, how hard it is like as a neurodivergent person who already struggles like to like really like freed those internal signals to like Manage the new challenges of like medication with the goal of the medication, ultimately to make you feel better and to be better. It's weird, man. Yeah, truly strong. Also, I just got real weird. Just so, you know. You want him. You got it.

I just I just have no idea. What's happening. Whoa, what are you doing to do? What do you feel? What do you feel on your body? I mean, I feel fine. I'm just not. Sure. Huh, about the reality of the situation props for recognizing it. I mean I keep I keep realizing it like in the mall. I'm just like whoa. Yeah well it's good I think I mean I think the mindset with which you're approaching it is really good.

I think you know when you taking any medication you kind of turned get you got to turn into like a self scientist. You actually going to turn to Jeff Goldblum funds, a fly. You got to turn into Jeff Goldblum from the fly. You gotta just like watch yourself and just be as my mom would say remember that. You're that. You're not the feeling you're the The feeler of the feeling. Yeah. You know, if you're feeling angry or sad or scared or anxious, it's important to have

some part of you. Be stepped back from that. Yeah. And go like, oh, look at that. I'm anxious now I because that's what, lets, what allows you to notice? Oh, I get anxious at 4:30 exactly every day. Huh? And that's really hard and really difficult to do. And I think you're doing is its, I think you're, I think you're doing it, especially, you know, since You're telling me these things. Yeah. Well, and when I, when I started the antidepressants, I we

decided me and my doctor. We decided that like I was not going to take like the Adderall. Oh really. Um, just to because, like just to admit like to isolate the variable right isolate the variable. But so it's weird because like I keep like I keep getting like really fuzzy, like I'll start the sentence, but by the end of the sentence, I can't remember the start of the sentence and soul. Like I sort of just like, like hoping that I sort of like get to a point and so yeah.

So that's been like really weird. It's just like figuring out like okay. Well, is that because, like, I'm taking less of my like regular ADHD medication or is it because of like something? You know what I mean? It's just like, it's all just some new still. Yeah. So I'm really interested to see what it's like next week. Like I'm just I'm, it's gonna go one of two ways. I feel like, I'm either gonna be like in a pile on the floor or not. Also, I did just realize that

neck. Week. Will be on a plane, so I'm playing Quad Cities. How do you feel about that having being having the medication? Wow, I'm so worried about, it really was so worried about what kind of work like, how does it because it's like, I mean, you saw me yesterday, why you think

I can't do that at a convention? Like I have to be on, like, I have to be on and, like, thankfully, like, on Friday, we only have like one panel and then we've got, you know, it is neurodiversity at the gaming table, so it just is a conversation that we're, you know, No, and I'm excited, but I'm really worried because it's like, if I start to melt down, like I can, we can go back to the hotel room like that will be

fine. But it's like a very different experience of like, being in the safety of, like, my kitchen and having like you, and Chris sitting there next to me being like you're not dying your fine. Till like, now I'm at a convention and surrounded by hundreds of people and like, you know what I mean? It's just it's I'm thrilled fucking stressed out about it. Yeah, I'm sorry. Sweetheart, it's not be there. Thanks. I think it's I think I was at us.

At all times for. I think, forgiving yourself, and giving yourself some slack. Yeah, I mean importantly they are. The people who are coming to see us are so kind and so gracious. It's like I feel I don't feel like anybody is going to begrudge me like, okay, he didn't come out to the bar after whatever like I'm very publicly on new medication. Like it will be fine but it's just that internal sort of like guilt and like expectation that I put on myself to like be fine all the time.

Anyway, That is like, I'm just I'm really worried that like, you know, we're going to be the middle of like the podcast. I'm just gonna start like weeping and I'll be liked by everybody. You gotta go to be like super-awkward and weird, you know. Yeah. Well here's what we'll do. I'll memorize some very long monologues.

Okay. You know, so if you if you go down in the middle of the thing, then you'll give me a little signal, you'll tug on your ear, like a first base coach or something like that or third base coach, which one has the coach both, both of them do know. There's their face, the surveys. There's no first base coach. Ouch now, it's not a thing. Thanks the way we'll do some cool hand signal and then I'll I'll go into like kingly or something like that. You know what?

I can't like. That's a playwright. Yes, I'll give you a dollar if you can tell me a line from Cake layer right now. Hey, King Lear, how you take your coffee King Lear, who's in this play? It's actually amazing. Those pretty good as the opening deck 33 Ali. Yeah really. It's the only departure from iambic pentameter or forward forward forward really bones. I am I'm proud of you.

Taking medication is really hard, not just like, well, you're taking it, the things that happen during like that's really hard but just deciding to do it realizing that it could, it might be able to help you batting away all the fucking bullshit. The of people telling you that it's a show of weakness or whatever, I've got a couple of main emails. Have you really Instagram messages from people who were disappointed in me for giving into big Pharma? I was like black.

Like like I don't think like it's in a conversation of I'm considering killing Myself or I'm going to take some meds and maybe hopefully not want to do that. Like I would think that maybe you would support my being alive but you okay that's fine. Why don't you write this email to your local representative or something? You I don't email Mitch McConnell instead, tell them that you're mad at him because I'm Jenna, don't care.

I'm Gonna Keep whatever I think. Overall my, I'm my Journey with medication has been worth it. Oh absolutely. Mine is absolutely been worth it. Like I am nervous. I'm apprehensive but like yeah like I'm I regret nothing like I regret I don't have any regrets about like my ADHD meds. Like it took me a long time to realize how badly I needed antidepressants but like I don't regret it at all. Like this is this is a really good decision for me and like a really good decision.

I think for like my future, like our future, the future of the party. Cast like I'm zero regrets nice me either. I think looking going through some of the things that I went through particularly with my Deeds, you know, it's my niece. She meds were really hard to get a hang of my depression meds, I looked out on super hard. My the first one I tried worked and then we raise the dosage. I think twice in that worked and those great log.

Very, lucked out there but with ADHD meds it was a tumultuous. Voyage and I still have a lot of trouble with it sometimes, but it is a tool in my Arsenal which is really nice. If I, you know, it helps me do things like, you know, filling out paperwork and whatnot. The fear and anger and shame.

I would feel around, paperwork was staggering and so not only do I just get the effects of You know, having the medication that helps me, do the paperwork and stuff, but also the secondary benefit of the knowledge that those things no longer are as big of an issue as they used to be. Yeah, is amazing. Like what it's done for like,

even my like anxiety, you know? Because before if before I was taking it, easy medications, if I had a bunch of stuff that is particularly hard for a person with serious executive function issues about a bunch of stuff like that to Do, Not only would that suck but I would spend Hours days weeks leading up to a freaking out about it but now I know like okay when that comes I'm still not great at it. But I know that I have. I have tools in my Arsenal, one of which is medication to get

those things done. It is freed up a lot of my energy to like pursue having a happy and fulfilling life, not just comfortable and tolerable life and those are, that's those. I think the biggest things that medication is done for me is, is realize that My life can be enjoyable and good in fulfilling not just not terrible and wanting that is difficult. What is? I think it's worth pursuing lightning round before we go.

Yeah, somebody listening to this podcast is wanting to talk to their doctor about starting medication. How would you ask your doctor? Because I was one of the most popular question we get is like, I don't know how to talk to my doctor because I can tell you exactly what I said to my doctor. Yeah, I said I'm really Struggling with depression and I want to have a conversation about antidepressants that is word for word.

All I said like that was it and she was like, okay and that was it. What would you say? I would say always having a having a written down thing beforehand is super helpful because it's easy to like on the car ride over to the doctor think like this is what I'm going to say, but then when you're actually sitting in the room with them, it can be really hard to maintain that same level of veracity in terms of advocating for yourself.

Yeah. As you did in the shower earlier that day you know so like having a thing written even if it's just like a little something on your phone or whatever would be looking like making sure you have those pieces. You're going to hit is really important, having a list of just like with ADHD and depression, having a list of symptoms their onset and specifically how they're affecting your life.

Like having examples of like not just necessarily like, oh, it's hard to focus but be like I have to fill out this report every day at work and every time it takes me five tries because I'll sit down and then realize I don't have a pan and then I'll run across the room and I'll sit down again.

But then I wear the fan across the room is pointing in a weird Direction at like so give them specific Vic things like that and also make it clear that you're interested in pursuing medication because Just, it's easy to feel like that's implied, you know, like, obviously I'm looking for a medication, you know, solution to this, but specifically saying like and I've heard that medication is worked for a lot of people like that kind of thing.

And also not being honestly, I'm going to tag on like, not being a like, there's such a fear of being perceived as like a drug seeker. Oh, yeah. But like, that's so like, that's okay to advocate for.

For yourself, in terms of like, yes, I am looking for medication because like, I really think that I need the assistance that medication can provide like, yeah, I still feel like we have to do a whole episode just about, like, how to talk to your doctor about stuff because like, there's so much bullshit in terms of like, oh well, you're just here for like Adderall or whatever like yeah. Yeah, really yes. I mean, I still feel that way. I just my insurance is Chained

over. It changed over and I had to have like an intake, whatever with a doctor. Is it go yesterday? I don't remember. What did you do that already. Oh, I have like the first one. I have another one scheduled. Okay, fill it. But this was just like the intake triage 10. Sure. But still, when I say to get a sense for ADHD I'm so excited. Yeah, I'm gonna do it again. Can we have a quarter for the podcast? Well, no. It's going to be at some place.

Oh, you know, but I still feel weird saying, well, when I got my eyes checked the other day and they asked the guy was like, hey, do you know you take medications and I said yes and I told him what it each team is. I'm taking. I still feel like he's thinking druggie or whatever. Yeah and I have I actively have to be like wait that is no you don't know that. That's what this person is thinking and honestly if they are they can go fuck themselves.

Like this has, you know, it's a hard thing to deal with and I know just remembering that you have bodily autonomy and you were allowed to ask her what you think you need, but also remember unless you are, you're probably not a, you're not a doctor. So, being trying to focus on, I'm trying to solve this problem, not necessarily, you're searching for a certain outcome is also good to keep in mind, really useful. Yeah. Anyways, Katie, do you want to do our outro right now?

Yeah. But here's the thing, my ukulele is Out Of Tune and I find it in this moment to be hopelessly sad, so I don't want to cry but my out of tune ukulele. Okay, so we just won't do the song this week. We'll do a mega Song megasonic this week, which means that if you're like, hey, but I was supposed to be the second speaker, like, wait a second. I didn't get to be in the song.

What's the song? Well, usually every week, except for this week because I'm sad about my out of tune ukulele, we make up a song for the new patreon sponsors. So if you want to get it on that, if you want to be part of next week's, super mega song had on our the Patriots patreon.com slash. I'm so sad about my parking my little it's fine huh? It's it's patreon. That comes /. Infinite Quest. Eric, please help me. I'll tune your ukulele. It's infinite quest.com or, no, it's fine.

Even the solid it's patreon.com slash infinite Quest. Please, consider helping support us, it would really mean the world to us. Also, remember, Katie, and I both stream on Twitch every weekday twitch.tv slash kto Source, but the 0 is a 0 and twitch.tv slash hey, good respectively, come on by. It's a really fun time, there's music and games and wide angled lives because tick-tock Angles lives are very weird. There's an aircam and there's an

aircraft. I was going to be an air to push the button and it makes it shows Eric what everybody. Thank you so much for joining us again. Apologies at this episode is a little late. But remember, drink water, eat food. Get some sleep, we love you. That's not how that goes. It's not how it goes. I think that's how it goes. Remember drink some water. Take your buzz, you suck. You kind yourself be kind to others. I remember that. We love you. Okay.