My mom is upset that I'm recording this episode, and when I told my mom that I was recording this episode, my mom asked me several times in several different ways. Why, why do you need to talk about sex and ADHD? Why do you need to put your personal business on the internet? Why do you need to share stuff about your personal sex life with people and the answer comes from dr. Job will come Andy who published a study in July of 2020, entitled study on sex function
in adults with ADHD. And in that study, he concluded that women with ADHD experience astronomically, higher rates of low, desire low arousal, struggle to orgasm lower sexual satisfaction, and more pain and struggle to become aroused during sex. Along the same lines. He also discovered that men with ADHD are struggled to orgasm and struggle with sex drive and struggle with erectile dysfunction and struggle with satisfaction at much much higher
rates than neurotypical men. And that is something that I didn't know until July of 2020. I've struggled with sex my entire life. I have struggled with body image my entire life and I say over and over and over again, that there is just some stuff that they leave out of their brochure. And sex and ADHD. And I guess maybe a better way of saying it is a th Dee's impact, on your sex life is profound. And so today, I have decided that I don't care.
If my mom is mad at me for airing my personal business on the internet, because this is something that I am, deeply deeply passionate about educating Young people about and I feel like there's so much shame and there is so much. Anxiety wrapped up in Sex and ADHD, I feel like it's kind of time to talk about it. Hey everybody, it's me. Katie asaurus and welcome to episode 17 of infinite Quest. Before we begin, we just wanted to let you know that this week's
episode is all about sex. We don't get graphic or anything, but we do believe that consent works both ways and so we wanted to let you know that this week's episode is definitely not safe for work unless you're listening on headphones and have a really good poker face that I suppose anything could be safe. I work next, we just want to let you know that we are really close to achieving our goal of getting 100 reviews up on iTunes by the end of the month.
Leaving us a review costume nothing but a little tiny bit of your time and it helps us out more than you could ever know. I'll be back at intermission with a few more announcements but for now, sit back, relax and let's talk about sex baby. I just realized that I don't actually know how the song goes transition. That was a weird wide-open podcast, but here we are. Hi, Eric Katie, how's it going? That's good. It was beautiful speech. Male species. Speech. That was lovely. That's fine.
But I just like it's been on my mind. It's been on my lap. My mind a lot lately. And I was thinking about how how much I have learned since July of 2012. Like it's it's January of twenty Twenty-One, happy New Year, happy New Year, but that is, that's not there. There's not very many studies about eighty HD insects. My dude, and it's a huge huge part of the ADHD experience and I feel like we should talk about it today. Yeah, I think we should too.
I think it took me a long time to realize how much my ADHD affects my life. And it also took me a long time to realize how much my relationship with my own sexuality, and sexual life and sexual identity, affects my life. And I think in like the same eight-month period, I both realized how much ADHD affects my life and how much my sexual identity affect my life and interestingly enough my coming to terms with each one aided in the My coming to terms with the other.
I think they're very closely related at least to me and it sounds like they're very closely related to a lot of other people. Yeah, I mean the thing that I was shocked about was I started when I started realizing that there was such a connection between sexual dysfunction and ADHD I started talking about it right away like I read like the first started and I was like yes and then I really became my
hyper fixation for gamma. We throw back to last week's episode and I was it was fascinating. It was fascinating to learn that. There are so much connection that is only just now sort of starting to get uncovered. And so I thought we should do an episode on it. Yes. Well, so, I think I've, for me for my own sexual identity, for my whole life, there's been a lot of Shame.
Yeah, a rabbit, like, they were so closely related to each other that when I became sexually aroused or just thought of sex in any way at any time of any day. I immediately felt shame a while ago, it was like sexual, you know, arousal and then a bad sexual experience and then shame and that happened. So not necessarily frequently but that, that the impact of that was so profound in my brain, that my brain just sort of cut out the middleman.
And so, for the last, probably seven or eight years, when I think of sexuality at all, when I think of sex at all, if I see a Victoria's Secret commercial, I impart you're going to say Rich Victorian Widow was like oh no. What is she gonna be on the only fans Katie? That's what the fans want. Hello, it's me Richard. Wait, look at my ankles. I'm sorry I just derailed this very serious conversation about sex and ADHD. Sorry. When you see the victim my Bloomers secret place. Oh my God.
Look at that. Flash. A little angle. You scandalous. I don't know actually but So over time, my brain is cut out, that sort of that middleman. So when I saw like a Victoria's Secret commercial, I would immediately get depressed and ashamed and sad, absolutely. Yeah, so much so that I forgot that that was the case. So I would, you know, let's say I was 21 and I'm at a bar with, like, you know, I live in Berkeley California and it's like a college town.
I'm not a student but like, let's just say, I go out with my friend to a bar. So, and I look across the room. And I see, like, like I'm straight. So like a pretty woman and I kind of think like, well, I want
to go talk to her. Whatever there is probably like maybe half a second between having, like the beginning of the thought of like, oh, you know, maybe she wants to talk to me or I should like, send a drinker with like, as soon as sex becomes anywhere involved in something that I'm doing or thinking about depression kicks in immediately and it's Something that I I mean I said for a while I've said to many therapists that my sexual frustration led to sexual
Detachment where I would I would dissociate basically especially in in actual sexual circumstances if I, if sex became a topic of conversation or if I thought about sex like in other circumstances, I would get depressed and all that. But if I was in a sexual circumstance, as soon as things start or initiated, I'd Associated and that led to a massive spike in my rejection sensitive dysphoria.
Which is so I guess I wouldn't well, I wasn't well, actually, no holy schnikeys Katie. She's have a glass breaker. I had a podcast breakthroughs are so heavy with it. I was Journal. Oh my gosh. My rejection sensitive dysphoria.
Is what caused my dissociative response because in my had sex was tied very closely to fail Oh, Yer an embarrassment and shame and so I checked, I would check out for them because, you know, when I first became sexually active, I had so many shameful and embarrassing experiences that my brain as a defense mechanism started associating. Holy schnikeys Katie, are you okay to we need to stop recording? No, no, it's fine.
I just I hope I apologize. If I'm not as articulate about this is I look like I just thought because I was just thinking, like, I was just so ciated, but I knew rejection, sensitive dysphoria, was part of it. But if you're dissociated, then you're not aware enough of your surroundings to perhaps be a way to feel rejection. Yeah. But I realize RSD came first. Yeah. And again this is tries into how
closely Insanely related. My ADHD has been to my sex life because I was diagnosed when I was 15 but I didn't. I wasn't aware of the implications of it. Until I know I guess would have been July of 2020 when I made a video about it and then people were like, oh tell me more and I was like, oh let me learn more. But oh my gosh. So I guess I guess that is to say the more I learned about ADHD in my ADHD, the more I learned about my own sexual identity and the profundity. Right.
Profundity of that is still sort of hitting me in waves. You just saw wave hit just now but especially as a male who's expected, you know, I'm a straight sis white male and it's sort of expected that we were supposed to just want to have sex all the time, like if you're at a place in like, you know, and a woman like a conventionally attractive woman comes up to you and says, hey there. Big boy. Do you want to take me to the closet and Bit different compared.
How many times has that happened to you in your life and I want you to can I count on your toes too? That's fine. It cool. Now once or twice honestly all jokes aside once or twice and it's where we're shown through through media and and all the story, The immense amount of stories and narratives that were told on a daily basis that straight men, sis men are supposed to be able to have sex, the drop of a hat, which is not the case for me and never had. It's not that I don't think it's
the case. Were most men. I I suspect that's the case to. I just feel like there and I don't like obviously I don't have the experience of being a man, but I feel like you've read you really hit on something with like, there is like an expectation because that is what, you know, Society or Media or whatever talks about. But, you know, so it's I don't think it's feasible for people to just be ready to go at a drop of a hat. Even for people who experience hypersexuality.
Which we're going to talk about later in the episode but I think like that expectation comes from like this weird. Fictionalization of the practicalities of sexuality. Yeah, there's seen that one particular scene that just exists rent-free in my head. Is that the scene in the movie, 8 Mile, with, with Eminem. You seen the movie 8 Mile. I've not seen eight mile. Hey, you got to get on it, I wasn't a junior-high. Boy, up the fair enough.
Fair enough, the song Lose Yourself was written for that. My favorite rap song. About Italian food. But there's this scene where Eminem's character, but rabbit bunny red be rabbit. Is that work, he should be working. I'm sorry. Eminem's characters named bunny rabbit B-Rabbit. Yeah I this I was today years old when I learned this it's a fantastic movie. Katie surprise. I mean he's a surprisingly good actor to it's very good. Hi Rebecca. Sorry continue.
There's this scene where he was so exciting Detroit. He works in an auto Factory basically. Well it's Detroit and this the Of Interest comes in, and she like, sees her across the room. And she gives them like this look, and they like he walks over to her and she basically gives him this, like, let's have sex right now. Look. And he like goes his eyes wide. Me looks around and goes okay, he grabs her out of hand and they find a little corner and like, in 10 seconds, they stop
start making out. And then like there's penetrate there are, they're having sex now, and I was just like, oh, okay. Okay. That's that's what happens because I mean, I don't know how old I was like 10 or something like 11 and I just figured like oh that's what's supposed to happen is in the moment, you're going to be in a thing and then somebody who you want to have sex, with says, let's have sex and then you're just like Bing.
All right, let's go. And I quickly discovered that that was not the case and so profoundly outside of my experience. How do you figure? Well, how do you mean that figure? Like I'm like, I'm trying to imagine like, what my response to seeing that would have been as a kid because like, it takes me so long to get in the right headspace to like, be down to pound. I go for shouldn't just so kothari, or moms, aren't listening? I'm just, I've come up with so many clever euphemism.
No. But like, I mean, but that's the thing is like exactly what you were saying. Like, I like, I can't do that. Like, that's not a thing like and and sometimes I will be in the mood. It and that's cool. Like I'm and when that happens, I'm like oh shit like I like oh my God what was the stars have?
Aligned the Moon is in the Hat like you know and and that's really cool but that happens so infrequently that I think that also contributes to my rejection sensitive area because like if it is one of those perfect moments where I am like let's go and my partner is like no I'm not. No thing, I'm doing whatever like know it's Super Bowl, you know, whatever. Like whatever might be. I don't know what was super bowl-like then I feel like I have done something wrong by making me approach.
Well seems kind of analogous in some ways to how I think of hyper-focus. I can't control when I'm going to hyper focus on something. Usually, a certain things, I always hyper focus on, but oftentimes like it have a focus
on something entirely arbitrary. But when I get hyper focused on something that I think of as being an objectively good thing to do, the stars have aligned, oh my gosh, I need to go do the dishes right now because I have the motivation and I'm like, oh I just thought of a new method or whatever. I need to seize that right now. And so similarly with sexuality, I have no control over when I am in the mood in a sexual mood. When I'm aroused, whatever will I'm leaving all that stuttering
in it right now. That's that's what a mighty she looks like a lots. Okay. But it's in some ways, analogous in that we have no control or, you know, and there's there's a guilt that I feel when I'm in the mood when another person isn't because I feel like I'm wrong in them because I've spent my whole life watching Men posed to church, and lust over women, and I never wanted to be that guy, but I also feel bad when my partner is in the Food.
And I'm not, I know that it I'm well, I'm within my rights to do that. Which, by the way, dear listener, it is okay to not be in the mood. If your partner is at all times, it is okay, but it's sort of, it's, it's an interesting sort of lack of control. Analogous to our lack of control of of our attention. I don't know if it's entirely analogous because there is of course hyper and hypo sexuality but let's say what it is though.
Like I'm sorry I didn't mean to cut you off but what's really interesting that you say that That because so lots of people with ADHD experience hypo sexuality or low sex drive but I but I smaller contingency experience hypersexuality which is a higher than usual, sex drive. But the problem with both of those is that those are kind of Subjective terms, right? Like if all of a sudden all you can think about is sex, are you experiencing hypersexuality or
are you just in the mood? You know what I mean? Like and so there's like a lot of like wiggle room within the definitions of hypo and Hyper sexuality. But they both come down in conversation with ADHD. They both come down to focus and attention ring. Yes, for a lot of people low sex drive is a like, I'm so nervous about recording this episode because I keep saying, like for a lot of people like I speak for the ADHD Community but I want to
be clear. Like, as I keep having these conversations there are four or five really great studies, that have been done about ADHD and sexuality, and I have studied them and I have read them. So, we're going to post all of those on the website so you can check those out if you want. But when I say, lots of people with ADHD, I'm referring to the people who have participated In the studies. If that is make sense. Yes.
And, um, an equals and say, for the mask grills, people who have been involved in ADHD studies / myself, because I'm also counting myself as a reference point. But so, so, hypo sexuality and hypersexuality both come down to attention and, and inattention / impulsiveness /, everything that comes with ADHD and So for many people, the low sex drive comes from the fact that there is, there is a definitive struggle
to focus on sex. There is a definitive struggle, to get into the proper headspace. Whereas people who experience hypersexuality that is, all they can think about is their attention is, an is again, it's not an attention deficit. It is a tension, directive, right? Attention Direction. And then there it gets, so it gets so Science you so quick. I don't know how deep to go down the rabbit hole. Hey dude, go for it. Be rabbit. Okay. You're like, are you saying Eric
that I should lose myself? I think in the moment she lose yourself in the science. The moment. You wanna start mom's spaghetti. All right, I'm sorry. I like apples control. Um, but yeah and so that it, that's part of it. But then also you have to take into consideration all of like the comorbidities that often come with ADHD. So lots of people with ADHD. Also have depression or anxiety or both many people.
Struggle with addiction. And so there's all of these sort of, like, outside external factors that are not specifically just ADHD even ADHD medication can, you know, affect both ways hypo and Hyper sexuality, which is really interesting. And then even more complex is, there's a very interesting phenomena that hasn't really been studied at all except in the Community.
So within the king Community, there's this conversation about a term called drop and what drop is is that after a kink seen, some people experience drop and, and drop is basically once all of your sort of Serotonin and dopamine have been depleted, because you've sort of burned through it during this like, heightened experience in this heightened range of emotions. The next day you can feel like shit and it can happen to the
top or the bottom. Like it is sort of non-discriminatory it just depends on like how your brain processes the sexual experience and and emotions and experiences, right? But that is a thing that happens to everybody across the board when you orgasm, because when you orgasm your body releases certain endorphins and chemicals, like serotonin and dopamine. So for a lot of people who have a low Than average sort of rate of dopamine like, huh? Perhaps someone with ADHD?
Hey the act of orgasming depletes that dopamine and you can start to resent sex because you feel shitty afterwards you're just naturally experiencing drop. So it basically winds up happening is that many people with ADHD who experience lower rates of dopamine and serotonin already feel like shit. It after they have sex and, but unconsciously, because they're not educated, and they don't know of application. That's so rude. They're not educated about. They're not educated.
They're all dummies, that are big dumb dummy, faces and educate about that educated about this specific component of how orgasm affects your brain and your chemical levels.
And so they start to unconsciously associate sex with feeling crappy afterwards and that show he's up in these studies that I'm talking about because the number one sort of theme among all of the people who are studied in all of these different studies because there's been several done, like I said before is that universally people with ADHD are more sexually active but they are less satisfied with sex, huh? Yeah. Put that in your brisket and smoke it.
Sorry, I said you don't you smoke the brisket itself? I've never made a brisket, I don't know how it works. Oh, what are you doing tonight? I've watched mrs. Maisel a lot but that's that's all I got. Well, I think the thing, you know, we're going to do a whole episode on, can't get some point, so we won't get shot with so we can't get in. It's so complicated. That's too much for one episode. But King I think is A notable enough experience like it's It looks interesting and involves
different tools. It's, you know, it's notable. So that might perhaps then cause one to realize trends that occur because of it, for example drop. Yeah. In the king community that everybody knows about drop because they well because they're just a wonderful group of people in general as far as I know as far as I know. But in more, I guess the kingdom would be vanilla sex.
Sex that doesn't involve kinky. It's if those it might not seem as notable, you might not think of it as being something that's, you know, endorphin the least significant enough to cause something like Drop. So especially for a person with ADHD who already has a non typical relationship dopamine. Just again go over real quick. Low arousal Theory, this is not
sexual arousal. This is brain around July arousal, people with ADHD, have a smaller amount of dopamine active in their brain in a given time. Your brain has an amount of dopamine that it releases and then takes back up so you can think of it as like if you had 10 darts to throw you there only so many darts you can throw before you have to stop and go and get them and reloads. There's only so much dopamine. You can have at one time. I love your analogies are always so good.
Well thanks and so if you have a massive orgasm let's say you've just thrown all those darts at the thing at the same time. I'm and then you got to go grab them and take them back. So for if you were to think of like darts on the board at a given time as being like, the amount of dopamine active in your brain, for a period of time, when you go grab all the darts and walk back, your brain is depleted of dopamine, which I suppose in this case, we would call drop.
And for a person with ADHD, whose brain is very used to having to be very attentive to the amount of dopamine, flopping around it. And in a given time, I really wish there were more studies. Perhaps, I shall spend the rest of my life doing these studies, but I can certainly say from personal experience. The types of things that I feel. When my ADHD is running off the loose, like, I'm hyper focused to all hell on something and then suddenly I finish the model
or I have to stop or whatever. And all the sudden, my brain just goes boom, and I get depressed. And I experienced drop same as the case for, if I have an intense sexual experience afterwards, I experienced drop Because I've just thrown out all of my dopamine, and I also think it's worth noting or talking about I suppose, because I don't know really what I make of it yet. But so in my everyday, life non-sexual situations in my everyday life. My brain.
Craves phasic. Dopamine the dopamine that your brain releases when something happens, when new stuff goes on. So, I'm constantly switching topics and getting bored with topics and doing new ones, it's called ADHD that is also happening during a sexual encounter. So my Is doing all the sex, dopamine stuff, but I am also simultaneously doing all the ADHD, dopamine stuff, and it
feels strange. And in my, in my experience, when I'm in a sexual realm, it's sort of binary, I am either dissociated or I am thinking about everything that's going on at all times. You know, the sexual Sensations that I'm experiencing the sound of the light, the creepiness of the bad, my feet are getting sweaty and so it's basically like I either not cute into anything at all.
I'm fully dissociated or I'm cute into so many things that I cannot at all focus on, you know, experiencing pleasure, giving pleasure, and all the stuff that occurs intimacy. I can't focus on intimacy, and that sort of gives validation to the feeling of drop because the drop is occurring because of
chemical things. Yeah, but it gives that Place that I go to during drop a lot of stuff to toss around in my brain absolute like oh you know you made them tired because you kept having to start over because you were like hold on I got to go turn off that light it's bright or whatever and so then when I experienced drop, I can think back to all these occurrences that occurred during that experience, due to my ADHD and my drop has like, oh gosh, Eric we are going to go nuts
with all this stuff that you just did and it makes it worse. I feel like I don't know if it's worse because I'm going to compare it to because I'm only one person but Bill. Hey, guess what you did it, you made it to the middle of the episode. Congratulations! Have you had any water today? First, we just want to say thank you at the beginning of January. We set a goal of having 50 patrons by the end of the month, and we did it.
It happens. And so, because we think it's important to keep growing, we are expanding that goal to 60. However, we also wanted to take a little bit of time to let you know why every single dollar that we raise is going towards helping Eric move to Atlanta. So we Can continue infinite quests, mission of spreading advocacy and education about ADHD and mental illness. This has become something that means more to us than we can ever say.
And with your support, you're helping turn this into a reality and we are so grateful every little bit helps. So if you're interested in supporting infinite Quest, visit patreon.com slash infinite quest for more information, Hey everybody. It's me Katie asaurus and we just wanted to let you know that this week's episode is brought to you by our good friends over at honey. Playbox what is Honey? Play box, you might ask well, I'm gonna give it to you straight, they sell sex toys,
but here's the thing. How do you play box believes that pleasure play health and accessibility are necessary for positive experiences of sexuality. And, you know what, here it infinite Quest.
We agree, especially in conversation with how tough sex and sexy times can be when you're struggling with ADHD, or One, or any sort of neuro divergency having open honest conversations about sex and sexuality are really, really important to us and our friends at Honey playbox agree and not only do our friends at Honey playbox agree with that. They also want you to save a little bit of money while you're having these conversations and exploring sexuality and what
works and doesn't work for you. So they've hooked us up with a twenty percent off discount code from now until the end of March, use code infinite quest to get 20 percent off your order. That's like honestly not a bad. You guys, I'm not gonna lie also, just because I think this is very funny. Honey. Play box was kind enough to send over just a ludicrous amount of stuff for me and Eric to look at
and talk about. So in the next couple of weeks, you're going to see some content over on the YouTube. And we're also going to talk more just about sex toys and how they can help your ADHD relationships. So we will be posting that content soon so you have that to look forward to. So again, use code infinite Quest. If you want 20 percent off your order over at honey, please. A box and have have fun. Okay, bye. Oh, man. Did I just haven't podcast breakthrough?
I think I just had the one charged with it, my my struggle, because I guess like we haven't talked about me yet. So let's just talk about me for a second. I don't care what he's our cares, who cares? I care, I think that's my real problem. Like I tend to be more submissive. I gravitate more towards like bottoming. Scene was bottoming being submissive. I just hate the term submissive like to thank me, too.
I don't like to think of like, when, if you're cuddling, if there's one person who's like, I want to be the little spoon. Yeah, yeah. Little spoon is bottoming. Big serious topic. It's a very Loosely defined term but like, yeah, it's like, I don't know. I just, I hate the term submissive because it's like in the Kink Community. I would be what is defined as like Heavy impact probably bratty submissive but I hate the
term submissive. I hate the term brat and it's like I don't know it's just I can't really hung up on labels because I'm just like labels came to find me man. But anyway what the fuck I was talking about was that I have always felt like an inconvenience and it's because I
have ADHD. And it's and so like my entire life has been about trying to Keep the people around me, happy and trying desperately to not be an inconvenience and, like, people-pleasing and bending over backwards to make people happy, which is separate from being submit. Like, I want to be very clear about that. Like, it's not like oh, you're a people pleaser. Therefore you must be submissive, but for me I've always felt like an inconvenience and that especially started coming up during sex.
As first I was I was super late bloomer which is surprises. A lot of people and actually runs very kind of like my personal experience runs contrary to a lot of studies. There's a really interesting study done about ADHD and risky behavior in women with ADHD and across-the-board. It kind of talked about the fact that women with ADHD tend to engage more in like risky partners and risky.
Actual behaviors and like the number of sexual partners and like substance abuse as it relates to sex and that city was done in 2006. But that was never my experience, like, I lost my virginity when I was 21 and the only reason I lost it when I was 21, which and also, I want to be very clear. Virginity is a societal construct and I don't even blink. That's a whole another box to impact.
But like my first sexual, Since came, when I was 21 came, and it was because I just decided like, this is something that I need to get over with. Like I just I need to I need to have this experience. I might as well get on board. Like let's go and it was really bad.
It was very, very bad sexual experience because like I had no idea what I was doing, and I think kind of a little bit what you're talking about, like I had a bad experience, I internalized that as I was being an inconvenience because it took me a really long. Long time to get in the mood, it took me a really long time to sort of respond to anything that was happening. And that kind of became how I thought about sex. Like, I was just inconvenient because it takes me so long to orgasm.
It takes me so long to focus. It takes me so long to get in that headspace. And so sex wasn't particularly something that I enjoyed when it was Like it just is like, is I always say, like pizza? Like if you offered me pizza or Saks, I will always choose pizza because at least Pisa is consistent. And I know what I'm in for, right? And that's so frustrating.
And it's so frustrating to be lying there and like, wanting to be intimate with somebody, and wanting to share this time in this space and like experience like those emotions of like closeness and intimacy. But the whole time you're going oh my God like his hand getting tired. Like is he getting tired? Like it's been a really long time is like this is it A reasonable amount of time. I don't think this is a reasonable amount of time. Like this feels like a really long.
Should I say something? Should I not say something? Because if I say something like is it going to put him out of the mood and then like that, I'm going to feel bad because I got ruined it like that is my monologue. Every time I'm having sex like I want to be very clear like every time across the board universally and so when I am again this is probably going to circle back to a lot of this on
the Kink episode. But like so the first time that I experienced a Like a partner who was very like dominant and was like, no this is what we're doing. I was like oh shit. Oh shit. Oh shit. Like I don't have to like it's fine, it's okay. And like having that permission and having that freedom to be like, it's okay to take that time. It's okay to need the time that you take but like, you really have to have an understanding partner. You really have to have somebody
who it's like. I don't care if it takes, you 15 minutes to orgasm. I don't care if it takes an hour, you know? Like If it doesn't, it's about the time that we're spending together. And so that is something that I try to bring into my own sexual experiences. Now is like it really doesn't matter. You know, like it shouldn't matter. It should be about the time that is being spent, but if the ceiling fan is clicky, or the air conditioning is on or the music is weird or whatever.
It's just it's just all circles back to that. That moment of like I'm being an inconvenience like I'm The other person is not enjoying it and it's my fault and like that is. Yeah, I guess I guess that's yeah. It it's a trailed off of the other side it's a positive or A
negative feedback loop. Because the more worried you are about how if their hand is tired or whatever, like the more your RSD is acting up and you just want to be less inconvenient you know, whatever the longer the the I don't want us, I guess I guess worse, I don't to say worse because I don't imply that they're bad, but the things that are Causing you to think that way will become compounded. Yeah. They like it's just, it becomes a vicious cycle. Exactly. So if I'm thinking like, is
there hanging tired? I am now Less close to the like that. What will cause them to be able to stop and throw, you know, like it's yeah, exactly. And it's just God, it's just this frustrating spiral and that's of course. Why it helps to have an understanding partner. Because when you have no understanding partner, you can answer those questions in your head. All right? You can set, or are they tired? It's like, well, if you have, if you are Very comfortable with your partner.
You're very communicative, then you can know. Oh, if they were they would say I'm going to I need a break from this or if they weren't like they'll they'll tell me. So having an understanding partner is just absolutely Paramount to I mean in my case, satisfying sexual experiences and that also goes for sexual compatibility. Frankly, yeah, being able to communicate what your needs are for my might big butt. Big Journey that I'm still on is figuring out what those needs are.
Such that I can find a partner, who can satisfy, who is can satisfy my needs, and who has it? Who also has needs that I can satisfy. And so you know, you can't ask for something if you don't know what it is. And so having a partner that you're also comfortable enough to explore with. Perhaps there are new things that you know, there were certain sexual practices, that stop my ADHD, right? In its tracks because all the thinking Ceiling fan.
And then, you know, I want to get, we can get it, we'll get into it at the Kink episode, but the ceiling family going on, like all the ceiling fan. Oh man, like this are there is that, you know, as their leg in a weird position.
Am I putting too much on my sitting to like my leaning on their leg too hard or whatever and then all of a sudden something will happen and also my brain just goes, screw everything that you were just thinking about this is what's happening now and being able to have a partner that you can one ask for whatever that thing is of ask of whatever that thing is, and have a partner that you're comfortable enough to explore with, such to find what that thing is, is just of a
Paramount importance. Yeah, well, and I think, I mean, I say this all that's like, literally all the time comes up so often, but I think the number of problems that can simply be solved by sitting down and having a conversation. Is shocking. Frankly like especially when it comes to navigating like ADHD relationships and like I can't remember the episode but where we talked about like defining terms, you know, like that. So yeah. Well he's Gypsy. Yeah.
But like that, like that, expands I think more into the sexual realm as well. Because like, there, there's nothing wrong with sitting down and looking at the person that you're about to be intimate with and be like, hey, if I check gout like, can you do this thing to bring me back? Like it would be really helpful like if the ceiling fan isn't on, like you can ask for those things and you can vocalize those things you're not doing anything wrong.
When you, you vocalize those needs and you express those needs in those wants. She said an absolute fucking hypocrite because that's the thing that I struggle with the most like it is like I'm so bad at it. Because when I first started having I didn't necessarily have communicative Partners, I didn't necessarily know that it was
okay, to ask for things. And I had a string of Partners who quite frankly were not interested in me, or my experience, being a good one, it was about their experience. And so because of that, like I internalized again I don't want to be an inconvenience. Hmm. And like, I'm not. Not kidding. When I say like if there was music playing right just hypothetical situation. If there if there's like music playing and I didn't like the music.
The the fear and the shame and the the impossibility of just saying can we turn the music off that is terrifying to me? Because like to me that is such a huge request because I'm looking at it and I'm thinking, I'm here, I'm spending my time with this person, they have been thoughtful enough to put on some music to set the mood or whatever.
And now I'm coming in and not only am I saying, oh I don't like this music and I don't like the parameters that you have set in which we are being intimate, but now I'm also being inconvenient enough to say. Can you change this?
Can you stop what you're doing to you know tell Alexa to stop playing music or whatever and like but that's how hung up I get on it because I am so scared of being an inconvenience and And it's so frustrating and it's like I've like therapy helps to some extent but honestly I think a lot of it comes down to the repetition of having an understanding and communicative partner who not only can say yeah that's fine.
If we need to turn the music off no big deal but having the presence of mind to also say and thank you for saying something. It's okay that you said something like that was good. You did a good thing. Good job. Yeah, I mean there's no overstating, the importance of being on the same page. Yeah. As your partner, whatever the page is. It it's sort of interesting enough. I think communication and being on the same page as your partner
is immensely convenient. Because it reads both of you, of the of the fear of having to wonder. What do they want? Am I doing the right thing? To they like what I'm doing, are they offended by what I'm doing? Is the music. Okay. Yeah, it you know if If you had a partner that knew you and knew that you can't stay focused or like in the moment, if there is music playing, they wouldn't have played music in the first
place, which then wouldn't. But that's the problem though, is because sometimes I want music, sometimes I want music and sometimes they don't want music. Yeah, sometimes I want classical music and sometimes I want like, you know slow motion Casino Heist music like which is a very
specific genre. Oh yeah mustard but it's my George Is my favorite, like, genre for, like heavy impact scenes, but sometimes I'll be doing, like, a heavy impact me, and I don't want any noise like, and it's just, and it's just like where my brain is at that day. And that's why I get to fucking frustrate and because it's the variables always change variables. Are always changing based on infinite Issa, Mille differences, like and literally sometimes it's like, did I eat
lunch? Mmm. It's like if I ate lunch, then nine times out of ten, I'm gonna like have a bunch of body image issues because I had the audacity to feed myself today and my fucking eating disorder. Brain tells me that I'm a disgusting fat piece of shit and so how dare I have a body? How dare I enjoy what's going on? I don't want to be seen because like, you know, like now I'm in my head about like, what I look like. It's so dumb are It's so it's
not dumb Katie at all. I mean, it's just, it's not don't like, it's valid because it is what goes on in my head. But I like from an outside perspective of someone listening to this podcast who just has sex and lives their life. I sound ridiculous. No, no. You really don't. And I don't mean to say, I mean, yes, those feelings are valid but honestly, no, it isn't. I mean, the think yesterday, when we were getting ready, See
to do a live. Yeah. When you were carrying a thing you knocked over, you spilled something on the table, right? And you're really mad at yourself, I was, I was so mad and I didn't care. I was like, I will grab a towel, it's fine. And I asked you, if I had knocked over the thing, how mad at me would you be, how would be like, how dare they, how much would you feel that towards me? And you immediately without hesitation said not at all. That's how other people
generally are there. Not Ellen is tangentially related, but Eleanor Roosevelt said that, you wouldn't care. About what people thought of you. If you realized, how seldom they actually do. And so all the stuff that's going on in your head of or will they be terribly offended? If I asked them to turn the music down, it's so stupid to me because all this is happening, because of I stubbed my toe yesterday. And this particular way that I'm standing is putting fresh all
that stuff. They all they see is that you are giving them information to cause their insecurities to go down because then they know what you need. That's what I worry the most about during any section is am I giving this person what they need and if I don't know what they need then I'm just guessing and that is dreadfully inefficient and if they don't know what they need, then neither of us. And so you need to be able to be comfortable enough to explore and figure out what both of you
want. So I think it's kind of ironic that the I Think, in your case and I am no expert at all. I mean, I'm just a person who has experiences who is apparently not embarrassed to talk about them? I'm there for it. Ironic that I think the things that you worry about in terms of offending, the other person or making the other person uncomfortable would actually make them more comfortable to tell them, hey can you turn down the music or hey can you shift your weight in this or that way?
And that also sets the precedent that you will tell them Like, I've noticed that I tend to get along with people that other people described as being assholes it and because assholes will always tell you what they're thinking. And so, you know, I have a relative, I won't say their name in case of them, but I have a relative who if you're standing in an inopportune spot, she'll just go Eric. Don't stand there, stand there and I'll just go. Okay at all, and I'll move over there.
If that why are you turning to John Mulaney? What do you do it? Okay, that's pretty good. And a lot of people kind of get if I'm like. All right fine. But for me, I'm like I'm so comfortable around her because I know I never have to worry that she's thinking something that I'm doing and I don't know about it. If I'm doing something that she doesn't like she'll just tell me matter-of-factly like, hey, could you turn that down? I'm on the phone or whatever.
Yeah. And so it's sort of ironic that in your attempts to make the other person. I guess not offended like what's it's asking? This is guessing Behavior. Yeah, yeah. Is what it comes down to you. And for those of you who don't know, like I think this topic is like absolutely fascinating, but it a lot of it has to do. It doesn't have anything to do like ADHD or being neuro-diverse or whatever.
It literally just kind of comes down to like, how you were raised and how you communicate because let's say you need to go to the airport. If you are an asker you would say, hey Eric, can you give me a ride to the airport on Thursday?
Hmm. And Eric would say yes or Eric would say no and it would be his right either way to do that but guessers would go. Oh man I hate traffic and like I like I gotta go to the airport on Thursday and like parking at the airport is such a pain with the hope that Eric would pick up on that and say, oh I could give you a ride to the airport. Airport. And like both of those are both of them have their pros and their cons.
But the big problem with it is that people who are guessers tend to think of askers as in conscionable assholes, and people who are askers tend to think of guessers as passive aggressive monsters. And so like when you, when you put that in context of sex, if you are an asker and your
partner is a guesser. Wow. Is there a lot of room for miscommunication and if You know, you are a Gasser and your partners and ask her, then you can feel like your partner is being really demanding or trying to like top from the bottom or like whatever. But in reality, your partner is just expressing what they want. But getting on the same page about even how you ask and how you communicate that becomes really, really important as
well. And I think because I am so resolutely a guesser like I'm a guesser and it is such a problem and I recognized it as a Problem. Because a lot of times, it's not a problem. Like, sometimes you can just be like, I sure would like steak for dinner and then somebody goes, oh, well, we could have steak and I go, yeah, I got what I wanted, her a, but in the context of sex, it's a lot harder to be.
Like, I sure hope that, you know, my partner reads my mind and figures out that this is a really bad angle and I'm in a lot of pain right now, they're not like, but your partner's can't read your mind. Your partners can infer that unless you express that, but I'm so come uncomfortable expressing a lot of that stuff like it is it is often to my own detriment and I see that pattern of behavior in my life and like I work really hard to fix it but I'm not a perfect person.
I just play one on TV and I think I think ADHD is very related to that in that guessing is a lot of stuff for brain to
think about. You know, if I'm with a person who is exhibits guessing Behavior who will imply that they need something and hope that I respond My ADHD can grab that, and all of a sudden has a bunch of stuff to think about it and go. Well, wait a minute to look in their eyes said that, they really wanted steak for dinner, but then they kind of were like, oh, I want steak for dinner, but I would feel bad if I ate steak, so, maybe they don't want steak
for dinner or whatever. My ADHD is like, oh my God, I have so much stuff to think about that. Where is he? You just remember that there's mashed potatoes in the fridge because you said steak and now I'm happy about that. It has nothing to do with this episode but I just wanted to let everybody know that that's the reality but they But you put parmesan cheese in your mashed potatoes, everybody PSA, whereas, if you're with somebody who is a, who is a, what is it asking versus guessing?
So these were with a NASCAR and use in the asker, says, can you make mistake for dinner - TJ? My age ADHD, can't do anything with that? It's just well, my HD would then think, oh my God. There's a million ways to make sake of crazy but I'm at least furthering what's happening.
So if I'm in a sexual situation and I am not sure if If what I'm doing is liked by the other person, or I'm not sure if the person knows that, I don't like what they're doing or whatever, that's all guesswork, that can make my ADHD spin out like nobody's business. And then I'll get frustrated that I'm spinning out and I'll just so C8 and everything stops and asking is is a really good way in my for me to sort of make
my ADHD go, okay? It's like it's just it's less fuel for my ADHD to spin out with I suppose. As yeah. It's really interesting. Similarly I have you know if you're a submissive versus dominant I find that being a bottom or a more submissive sexual partner, it rids me of a lot of decisions. Yeah, so if I'm in charge, then I have to decide. Where am I going to go? Where they going to go? What are we going to do all these things that might HD? You know, a tasty, people are generally good.
Prospectors were really good at thinking, of a million different ways of doing something. But we're not very good at deciding, which one to do. So, when I'm in, A dominant situation that is liable to happen. Whereas if I'm a submissive, I have one piece of information that I need and that is what do you want me to do? And that is it. I literally so because I'm a switch right? I don't talk about a lot but I
am of switch. Sometimes the top, sometimes the bottom and when I taught I literally write it out lines. Like I'm writing a goddamn book report and it's so funny because people will be like, what? Because I have like a little. I have notes. I will like notes because it's like my ADHD does the same thing. I've started Prospecting and I go, oh, I could do this thing or I could do this thing, or I could do this thing.
And I found that the most effective way for me to top is to specifically, take away those those options. So, I just make the list and like, we're sticking to the list. I like, you know, like there's places where you can like creatively deviate or like something if something is working for your partner or
whatever. But like that is something that Like I've always been kind of embarrassed about, because, like, I have to be so clinical to be a good top because I have to work within the parameters of my ADHD. So it's little, like I literally have on my, like, Notes app on
my phone. I have like the book report outlined of, like, scenes that I've done because it right, you know, I'm like, oh yeah, like the well, they liked this thing last time so like I'll put it in the, you know, this next time. Yeah. I mean I think just like navigating the the challenges of ADHD mean that you kind of have to prospect both like in the moment. But you also have to prospect for ideas about how to creatively problem, solve around your own neuro diversity, and
those challenges. And for me, it means Writing outlines or getting over the fear of being like, please turn down the music or whatever and it's a lot. And I don't think I'm always successful. Like I like, I know, I know that I'm not always successful, but I think the cool thing is that because of tick tock and because of this podcast and because of the position that I am now in, I have the opportunity to learn how to do better.
I'm actively Learning every day, how to work on these failings that I have internalized for so long. Because I'm finally realizing that I'm not the only person who struggles to orgasm. I'm not the only person who struggles to focus like I'm it's everybody take a drink. It's not a moral failing and it I'm not inherently a bad person because sex is hard and complex and complicated for my brain.
But it's also something that I'm passionate about and it's like I mean and it's something that when I When, you know, the stars align and I'm with a partner who I'm very compatible with it is a wonderful experience and it's like a type of thing that I really want and I really need in my life in order to stay centered and on in order to feel good about myself.
And I think that having the opportunity to constantly be reminded that, you know, like 43 percent of women and 39 percent of men with ADHD Since this like I am quantifiably not alone, science has proven that I am not alone and I think that is such a gift that is such a gift to know that and so I don't care if my
mom is mad about this episode. Because maybe part of that 43 percent, or that 39 percent of people who didn't know that until today, will know that now and they will feel a little bit less alone. Here, Katie here, here here. Yeah, we make me stay for dinner. No. That's all for a request this week, but before you go, we've got a couple more things to let you know about first. Don't forget to check out our
web double shop. We've got a bunch of cool merch, including some brand-new ADHD and D designs, which were really excited about this past Monday. Eric and me and Chris were invited to play May label on Lark, Network hosted by D and D core. So it was a ton of fun like holy shit, we had so much fun, you guys. It will be available on their twitch stream at Twitch TV / Lark, Network for the next two weeks.
So make sure you go check it out and watch us get our asses kicked its Dungeons and Dragons sportsball. Lastly, we just want to give a huge shout-out to our new patreon supporters. So thank you very much to Erica and Kathy and Michelle and Penny and cherish and Nicole, and Malice and zero, welcome to the infinite Quest family. We are so grateful and humbled by your support, and we look forward to seeing all of you next week, until then remember
to drink some water. Remember to be kind to yourself. Elf and remember that. We love you. Hello, this is mr. Brooks coming to you live from my remote location in North. Western North Carolina, wanted to say congratulations on the podcast, hope you both are doing well. And I got so involved in it. Once I started listening that I almost burned my cookies. So, please take that as a high compliment. Good luck. Break a leg do well, get in the first punch. All right, I'll see y'all later.