Is ADHD A Superpower? - podcast episode cover

Is ADHD A Superpower?

Sep 02, 20211 hr 4 minSeason 2Ep. 10
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Episode description

It's very important for you to know going in that Erik recorded this ENTIRE EPISODE dressed as Captain America.

In what might *actually* be our most controversial episode ever, Cate and Erik talk about the ongoing debate in the ADHD community about whether or not calling ADHD a superpower is helpful or harmful. They also FINALLY disagree about something and get into a very not at all heated debate (which Cate immediately freaks out about because ~trauma~). Ultimately, we both agree that even if you don't agree with us, we wanted to do an episode to talk about our own thoughts and feelings on this often-asked question.

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Transcript

Hi everybody. It's me, Katie. It's or hey, this me. Hey dude, and welcome back to infinite Quest. How we did it. I think people are going to have to wait and see and we'll miss sometimes we'll do it. Sometimes we got, you know, like there's a longer version of The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air intro and sometimes you see the long version you like, oh, it's the long version. It'll be like that. I when we say together, I've never heard of that in my entire

life. There's a long version of Yeah, it's a whole thing like the the his mom is like a character, you know, just it's a whole thing. Anyways, everybody ik has a million followers do and you think congratulations. Well-earned Yates is thank you everybody for for, you know, your support and your kindness and supporting infinite Quest along the way. We certainly appreciate it.

And if you're interested in continuing to support our mission of advocacy and education now that I'm a fancy follower millionaire we Patreon it, patreon.com slash infinite Quest. We use all of the funding that we receive from our patreon to just do this way. We helped produce the podcast. It helps take us on a tour. It helps us by cool stuff Technologies. I don't know, it just a lot of stuff that's true.

That is not true sometimes snack sometimes I will admit, sometimes you buy snacks, this episode we're going to be talking about something that makes its rounds on Tick Tock every once in a while and that's the Question is ADHD. Superpower short answer. No. It's going to be a controversial episode. It is, we get a little spicier, we disagree at some point. I don't want you to know that in my world. That was I was a fight. Oh wow. That was a fight to you then. Yeah, I know.

I think we're gonna be fine. Yeah. All right, cool. Well, anybody's everybody, I'm going to shut up now. Enjoy this stinger. And Then followed by the episode, where we say, hey, goood and Katie asaurus again, because, whatever because we forgot transition, Hi, you didn't do the thing. I kind of down. Are you just pointed at me? I don't know what you wanted. Well, it was like you're gonna say hi. It's me. Katie was so I can do that. Pretty good, three, two. Hi, it's me. Katie Taurus.

Should I also do the thing? Don't think? Usually not say one. Yeah. Because we carry two and then they Point. Okay, ready? Yeah. Dear listener. Hi. Hello. I want you to picture me looking really cool way. Like a headset on like a Liz, Lemon stage manager headset on and doing the finger things. I ready? Ready 3. It's me just whatever you want whenever you're ready. So now you're not going to do it. Hi everybody, sweetie. Sorry that's me.

Hey good. Welcome to another seamless fuckin opening to the podcast, totally clean, every time. I think we're going to do it clean and it's gonna be really clean. Let's get stupid. You said you wanted it to be consistent? We've never once in a cleanup job, that's true. We can start now, I guess. That's true. Yeah, it'd be weird. Be jarring to people. I'm sure they'd be like, oh my God if they finally got their shit together. Never come out.

Never, it's true. Well, I mean, I imagine like Batman right now because I've been dressed as Captain America all day, so I feel supermanny. None of bad sent to say, said, I don't know, most of gravity we're gonna have like a voice. He's like, I'm Captain America. Like, you only have a voice. So I'm doing if I'm thinking superhero voice, I Think of, I think if Batman. Yeah, hockey pads hockey pads. Anyways, in case you dear listener, have not looked at the

title of the steer episode. We've been thinking about the whole ADHD as a superpower debacle. I know it was like hot on Tick, Tock a couple weeks ago and we were going to do it then but we ended up talking about something else and so today's the day because we have been dressed as a superhero all day. So we've been thinking about superpowers, we got it, Captain America costume in the mail and it looks like they'll put it on and then his entire being changed with the wearing of a couch.

I've never felt that confident. I've never seen you feel about confident before. It's amazing. It was wonderful. It's got those shoulder straps. You know, where you agree that puts the shield on his bags like shoot. So like forces you to keep your shoulders back, you know, it's like pulling your shoulders back, just you're very confident struttin baby struggling. We went to Target and you were just like Captain America. Yeah, it was nice. I got to wait a little kids and

stuff is very cute. Was awesome. Let's see. You're obstinate refusal to take out the costume is my favorite new thing about you all my other clothes are in the laundry. I got to just keep playing, it's really important. I got can't move very much because it makes it makes Captain America noises when I move, I'm literally doing the podcast for Steve Rogers, right? Yeah, you are. This is our lives. Look Kitty it. So I have one very, very close to take you, seriously, I don't know.

Would you take Captain America seriously? Yeah, there you go. Let's just pretend I'm Captain America. Okay. And Captain. America has one very important question for you Katie. What is it? Captain America. So two-parter. Okay, one is ADHD a superpower and to do people have the right to think of it each day as a superpower. No one. Yes. How do you figure? Okay, expand on that. Well, superhero powers are real. An ADHD is. That's my that's my first arts fair.

That's very funny because I think like, one of the one of the big things and one of the things that we see a lot with ADHD, especially in conversation with neurodivergent see is there is literally an argument about like ADHD existing like we're the 80s. She Community as a whole is still fighting. For legitimacy and recognition in a way that like a lot of other neurodivergent cease and mental illnesses. Don't have like, you know what I

mean? Yeah. And so that's the first part and so like I think that, you know, the super elegant I'm going to talk about like on the personal level in a minute but I think like in a world in which an entire Community is still fighting against the stigma of oh you're just a bad kid or you're just not trying hard

enough or you're just lazy. Whatever to then come out and say no it's actually a magical power, it's completely counterintuitive to them, you know, and I want to I want to just preface this by saying like I'm really nervous about this episode because I think this might be one of the First episodes where our listenership doesn't necessarily agree with us or me. I don't, I don't know where you

exactly stand. I have an idea but I just, I want to preface this by saying, like you don't have to agree with us, it It is okay, it is okay for you to have a different opinion. It is okay for you to have a different Viewpoint. This is just where I'm coming from with my lived experiences of being both a late diagnosis person with ADHD, and also now, an advocate and educator for the community. This is my take on it.

So if you're sitting there going like, oh my God, but Katie, I think of it as a superpower, and you're hurting my feelings, this is not a commentary on you. It's not a commentary on your beliefs. This is just me talking about mine. Why? Cool. That's very good. That's very, very similar. I don't, I don't usually say, I don't usually rock the boat. Yeah, no choice.

I mean I post a video on this. The the question of is ADHD superpower, makes its rounds on ADHD Tick-Tock like once every four months or so, it comes back around and we all have to make our videos. Again, I'm going to put staying our position and the on the most recent go around. I was the first video I'd ever gotten pushed back on legitimate pushback namely from I think. Yeah, Lee one of the hosts of wait, what were we doing a podcast? They posted. Are they commented under?

Well, the video was basically stating one your video, my video. This is the video that I posted stated one thing, which is I think contextualizes everything that I'm about to talk about, please think about what I'm about to talk about in this context, which is ADHD is not a superpower because super powers aren't real. Nothing is a superpower like you just said, so just first off. Whole thing is an analogy whether or not it is a superpower. No, it is not because nothing is

a superpower, so that lets just. On that, what I'm more interested in it and in is is it okay for a person to think of it as a superpower? And my answer to that is, yes, I think it's okay for a person to think of their ID. E HD is a superpower, but it's fucking soon as they start telling other people how to think about their ADHD or even worse. So if they Art thinking of ADHD as a superpower as like, an objective truth about ADHD.

The DD HD is like a mutation, like the X-Men, and we're like the next evolution of human beings or whatever. The hell, which you'd be surprised. It's a lot of people that think that that's fucking harmful because ADHD is a goddamn disorder that affects every single day of my life and every single day of the lives of the people that have it. That makes things really hard. It makes me like him to sit on my kitchen floor and cry at 2:00

in the morning or something. It's like, it really sucks in for someone to say like, oh well, it's a super hot, you're just not you just suck at having superpowers like fuck you, like that's not cool. That is way over the like that is absolutely not cool. So I think if somebody people have the right to think of their ADHD however they want in their own head but keep it to yourself like real. I just keep it to yourself if you want to.

If that helps you like yourself or accept your nerd of urgency or whatever like you know your mental health is your business. Miss like whatever you have to think about, but you absolutely do not have the right to tell other people how they have to think about their ADHD. That's sort of where I stand on it. And I think it's really the.

The thing that I grapple with is is it possible to think of your own a mental disorder that you have your own mental disorder as being a superpower without sustaining the idea? That this mental disorder is actually a superpower and other people who don't think of it as being a superpower or just wrong or worse at it. Because that idea I think is really dangerous, even if you're really careful with it.

I mean, I think that's why I think that's my big issue with it is that it it's like I tend to look at it from like a community standpoint and I think like the problem is, is that one of the one of the, one of the things that I find most frustrating like about Tick-Tock, is that There's not a lot of room for nuance in a 15, or 30 or 45, or 60 second video. The same way that we can have an hour-long conversation in like, really clarify, like our thoughts and our positions.

But like I think one of the most harmful narratives about ADHD comes from a lot of like ADHD coaches. And a lot of like, you know, like life coaches like those type of people and it's always the same thing. It's ADHD is a superpower and all you have to do is harness the power of your hyper-focus and you'll be successful.

Your you won't have any more issues, you won't have any more problems and the problem with that and the thing that I get so frustrated about is like there is a difference between struggling with The the most cut, the common part of ADHD stuff like organization and focus and and you know, executive function and that kind of stuff.

That in some ways is like sure harness the power of the power of your hyper-focus and you know you know get more organized developed a better system like the same stuff that we advocate for like it's the same thing it's just sort of like in a different package but where it gets to be frustrating. For me is like, but I'm still more susceptible to disordered eating patterns, I'm still more susceptible to like you. Nobody Focus repetitive behaviors.

My self-harm compulsive picking like addiction addiction, shittier driving. Like, there is a lot related to ADHD that has nothing to do with like organization and focus. And I feel like the superhero analogy, overlooks, all of that for like, for, you know, in a lot of cases because superpowers don't exist. But the medical And, and the medical and mental sort of add ons that a lot of people deal with with ADHD depression anxiety, like that kind of

stuff. Like, that's not a thing that you can just harder like harness your hyper-focus. It's not something that you can just fix by, you know, finding the right Kryptonite like it's it's it's a lot more nuanced than that and I think simplifying this convert conversation to like a black-and-white. It's either a super-powered isn't is really detrimental to the people who struggle with the other stuff. Yeah. Does that make sense?

Absolutely, I think the ultimate, so so many trains of thought that I have about this eventually arrived at do that, but but superpowers don't exist in the first place. So, what the fuck is the point. Maybe like I'm just being too literal metaphor but vulnerable, I think, well, I think the thing that's toxic about it or can be toxic about it, is that it puts fault on the person with the disorder?

Yes, that's the whole, is that? It's you're saying like, oh no, you don't actually, you know, Doing a PhD work. Yeah, you're just shitty at it. Like that's why your life is so hard. Is because your shitty which is just, which is so antithetical to our entire thing. Which is that it's not a moral failing, it's just it's a disorder that you have to deal with it sucks, but it's not a moral failing in the superpower thing. Pull totally rips that away. Like no it not only is it not

like more certain. Not only is it not a disorder it's actually a fucking superpower. Yeah you could be taking over the world right now. In but instead, you're crying on your kitchen floor, it that to

animals. It's like the exact opposite of what, I guess, the method of thinking that were thinking up, and I also think, I think any given mental disposition any given you know, brain that a person can be given when they're born has things that are beneficial about it and has things that are detrimental about it. And the question I suppose is, when it comes to like a disorder, like ADHD is are the things that one might find useful about it for themselves again for themselves.

Is it worth the things that they find detrimental about it for themselves. So for some people they might, there were there particular lifestyle, their particular particular place that they live, their particular profession, that they have their ADHD might be immensely useful in circumstances circumstances. I mean, my dad was they invite them. Yeah, exactly mine to my old job, like It was made me incredible at that job.

And I know that no. Yeah, but it didn't gate, the struggle and the, and the, and the difficulty that I had either. Yeah, absolutely. He's already has a wife, correct? No, no, Liam. He's a line cook. Like when I went on the line during service when things were happening really fast, it was not hard at all for me to keep up with them. But when things slow down during prep and whatever that was immensely difficult, I like it makes me think of Patrick Lawler's take on this.

They said, yes, ADHD is a superpower and superpowers fucking suck. That's the best way because that, that also, before Patrick made that video, like that was a conversation that I had with Chris. A pony, she's well-liked. So, it was like, like I was like, I felt very like Justified when they posted that video. But, yeah, I mean like I think if ADHD is a super power than my ADHD is, like, gives me like Rogue Powers.

Yeah, where it's like? Yeah, The superhero, the superhero where it's like, yeah sure. You have superpowers but you feel incredibly isolated and alone and you struggle to control them and you are constantly like faced with this like immense responsibility and difficulty in navigating through the world. That's not very fun. Yeah. That's, that's not a very fun thing and I feel like, I don't know, I get so hung up on on like, toxic positivity culture.

Yeah, and I'm really nervous. About this episode because I try really hard to be positive and I try really hard to to be kind and compassionate but I get so upset with the Cavalier attitude in which a lot of people talk about how they do it. Each day is a gift, it's a superpower. It's your lucky to be ADHD. It's like no my ADHD has ruined. My mental health. It is ruined my physical health.

I have emotional and physical scars from the repercussions of living with undiagnosed ADHD that I have to deal with for the rest of my life. And I feel so negated and unseen and unheard in this conversation about like, oh well, you're just not treating it as a superpower hard enough and it's like maybe maybe if I had gotten diagnosed at 7 or 10 or 12, then maybe my experience would be different, maybe I would have a completely

different. You point, but like my viewpoint as somebody who lived my entire life thinking that I was broken and weird and alone to then find out that I have this thing and be like, okay well that makes sense. Now I have like a Launchpad to like jump off and like learn from and whatever. And then find out that like one of the narratives in this sort of conversation is but it's a good thing and you should be so happy to have it because like it

makes you more creative. I'm like, cool but I can't physically feel hunger. Like, I don't know when I need to go to the bathroom. Yeah it's a it's a lot of like real shitty Rogue powers for the exchange of like and yes I'm very good at running a Renaissance Festival but frankly like I would rather be worse at running a Renaissance festival and know how to feed myself and keep my house clean and not be living under piles of clutter but I'm just not trying hard.

I just need to develop systems and I just need to. I'm just so lucky. It's I'm just lucky Eric. No, not only idea was like that was like that was like a real ran. That's great. I understand, I really, would you be okay if you just tried hundred about you haven't, you would be a fucking superhuman. Like it's so much worse, that way, I don't know like I try really hard to be open-minded when it comes to stuff like a lot of the ADHD advice that's out there because I think it's

good advice for some people. I think that there are there are different like severities of ADHD. I think there are different like comorbidities with ADHD. And I think that like for somebody who might be living with just ADHD and not ADHD and depression, it might be easier or it might be. And I don't even want to say easier billing different, it's a different experience.

But like I was on Instagram, and I've slowly started making my way onto ADHD Instagram and the toxic positivity and the and the toxic like constant, like girlboss energy that gets thrown at ADHD especially for like ADHD and women like, it makes me deeply uncomfortable because I don't feel like I have a place in the ADHD like The Wider ADHD Community. What are some examples of that 8hd? Robots and she's just like a lot of planners.

There's a lot of like there's a lot of planners and there's a lot of like, you know, unfuck your house type stuff which is I think great. And I think like, it can be really useful but it all comes from from a standpoint of like, and if you do this, your life will be better and you're in, you like, your ADHD will be like amazing.

And it's like I just, I like, I don't know, like, one of the things that I get really stressed out about and I genuinely really question is, do I have a place in The Wider ADHD Community because, like, on Tick Tock, I've been extremely lucky to find a community of people who like understand where I'm coming from, and get it, and, and support us and me, and you, you know, in, in that way. But then, I move over to Instagram. I move over to 2.

I'm trying to think of another social media platform and I'm blanking, but like, those spaces are so full of that, like, girlboss superhero, toxic positivity, energy that it's like, can we just acknowledge the fact that sometimes you have to cry on your floor at 2:00 a.m. like can we just acknowledge that like some of us struggle with more than just organization that it's more than just? Oh, like I'm scatterbrained and I lose my keys like It's so much more than that for a lot of people.

And so like yeah I just I just constantly worried that like my position on my gratitude for my ADHD like somehow secretly makes me an imposter or like an outsider or like I'm never going to really be able to do this in the way that I want to because I have such a different take on those experiences. Yeah. I think I think you said to me a while ago That Instagram is for you know pictures of like the life that you wished, you could live the party. You wished. You can be at or the fucking

Mountain you wished. You could get a top of like this person. Whereas Tick-Tock is more. This is what's really happening of. This is me at doing the morning and and I think it's been I think that analogy sort of follows with the two types of communities around ADHD that you've sort of Fide. There's like the real. Hey, I have an HD. So sometimes I cry my floor, three in the morning and then

there's the hey, I have ADHD. So I have a superpower in here, my planners and here, my whatever we have to pretend to be this kind of thing. And I think that's something that is made worse by again. Super powers aren't fucking real there. It's the whole thing is weird. So by saying, by pretending that ADHD is a superpower. It's we already moved into the realm of Fantasy. And on top of that or or along with that, perhaps comes, oh, look at this. I got a planner and now I'm the

CEO of this company. Look at this, I started eating kimchi and now my ADHD got better, but like once you've brought up this fantasy element of it's a superpower, so comes the fantasy elements of. Oh, if you just do this one thing, then all the bad stuff goes away. And the good stuff gets Amplified times 10. And and and you're in whatever and sudden you get a cool costume and you can change really quickly and phone booths

or something like that. So as soon as soon as the Fantastical enters, the realm wherein they were in danger of suddenly promoting these are I guess, I guess, how do I say this? We're in danger of letting This this I guess this make believe that a couple little things can completely rid you of this disorder and make you the super power that can change the world. We risk polluting the community

with with fantasy basically. And I think ultimately what helps in terms of mental disorders, what helps solve problems in general is realism, is acknowledging what's real and dealing in things that are real. So I think Think it's sort of strange to me that how I say that, it's strange to me that something seemingly. So trivial like is ADHD is super

power. I think can open the floodgates to an entire level of sort of toxicity, the sort of Instagram things that you've been talking about the planners, the girl bus energy. All of that into a community that I think is, it's, you know, I like seeing the occasional inspiring girl Boss video like yeah in Foreign video, of course I do, but that needs to happen in in context of the reality, which is ADHD is a debilitating fucking disorder that, as of now is not curable, you just have it.

And we have to deal with it. And I think dealing in reality is the best way to solve problems, not dealing in fantasy. Yes. Well my struggle comes from the well one of my struggles comes from the from the people who were like, but I do think of my ADHD is a superpower. Like it helps me get through the day, like I feel like I have this like secret, you know, cool

thing. And like yeah, sometimes it's a struggle but like contextualizing, it and this like conversation helps me to feel better about myself and accept myself. And and so like that's the part that I really I struggle with because I don't want to

invalidate those people. I don't want to look at them and be like you're wrong for needing to think this way because that's just as bad as the people saying you should only think of your ADHD is a superpower like it's the it's the same thing but from the opposite end and so that's the one that I really struggle with because I absolutely think that you know, and I know this is a real story and I wasn't going to tell the story, but I'm

going to tell the story. When I first started dealing with my myoclonic dystonia, I absolutely did that. I absolutely like had like a like a narrative that I used for a while where it was like, oh well, I'm just like waiting on my Mutant superpowers. They're starting to show up, you know, I didn't know what they were going to be, but it was like, okay, I'm having these like weird physical symptoms.

I'm having these weird things that I can't explain and so like and it was like and I never told anybody, you know, but it was it helped me. It helped me be less afraid especially looking down the barrel of like I didn't know if I was going to be like that forever. I didn't know if I was going to be like a wheelchair user for

forever and so I was so scared. And so like my my unsure D about what was going on with me and and how I sort of like related to it where I was just like oh my powers are coming in and so I so deeply empathize and connect with the people who who use that or like use a gamification or you know, things like that words, like this helps me get through the day, this attitude, you know, makes me feel more, more positive.

It gives me self-acceptance like that kind of thing. but the problem is that those you have to be so careful because the minute you start sort of talking about it in that way, is the minute that somebody who doesn't think about it like that way, could inadvertently be injured or hurt or impacted by that sort of cavalier idea, you know what I mean?

Like yeah. It's so certainly it's so difficult to parse through because it's like I would never look at anybody and being like you're doing your ADHD wrong. Like that is everything that I'm fighting against in the work that we're doing. are doing but I also don't think that it's right to look at anybody besides yourself and say you should, you should be grateful for your ADHD or you should be what you should feel lucky, you know, or anything.

And we did that interview where the guy asked us about like well what about all the good things your ADHD is done on? Are We There Yet? Yeah. And I thought that was a really interesting question and I really struggled with it. because I think, I'm talking for so long. I'm sorry. I have a lot of fun. I didn't know your podcast.

You have this many like, feeling like Randy feelings about this, but I, it's hard because like my Ed, she's intrinsically, part of who I am. Like, I can't separate myself from it. Like I can look, and I can say, okay, well, here's a place in my life, where like, my ADHD makes my life harder or easier or, you know, whatever. But I would not be Kate without ADHD my experiences.

My world of you, everything that I know everything that I've learned everything that I've ever done is contextualized. Wised by the ADHD by my experiences of living as somebody undiagnosed for a really long time, by the experiences of all wake. The sort of like comorbidities that I deal with in terms of my ADHD. So When a superhero loses their powers. There's always sort of this narrative about like how do you

get them back? But it's still super mad because you know what the end of this you can't seem to get his powers back. You know that you know I don't know. Captain America is going to find a shield or whatever the fuck but like with ADHD it doesn't work like that. There's the it is so it is part of who we are and I feel like ascribing like mythologizing that or or girl bossing that or whatever you want to call it. I feel like it's some for me, at least. It makes it I'm separating myself.

I'm purposely drawing a line between myself and my ADHD in a way that is ultimately like not as helpful to graduations. You dirty made it to the middle of the consider drinking some water and celebration. Haha, we tricked you into drinking water. Hey, Eric, yeah. You look awfully handsome in those invisible. Glasses that you're wearing. Where did you get that? Oh, I got a Benzie little.com. I'm really, I'm really happy used to notice the really. Yeah, they're very visible but

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I could just be a good. Look at short enough already. Okay, that's fair. It's fine of the two of us, I have more pairs of glasses so it has to be us. But hey everybody, if you want to buy some glasses, you can do that. But faith is example.com and CEO all that calm. And if you use cocaine to go, they're going to give you 15 percent off your order.

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know. End of interstitial if used to coat hey dude, nothing will happen. So don't do that transition. well, I think we're sort of circling around a question of Is there a way to think of your own ADHD as a superpower without in some way? Harming the community I suppose. And I think, I think there is, I think there isn't, it just takes a lot of you, go ahead. Well, I think, I think you use the term a second ago, you said

an attitude. And I think the, the line between thinking about your ADHD superpower in a way that is harmful versus in a way that could be beneficial to you in that harmful to somebody else is attitude versus belief. Like, if I believe that my TT superpower if I believe that that is true, Rue. Then it will stand to reason that it would stand to reason that I believe all everybody's idiots. This is super.

I'm just lucky enough to know that or lucky enough to be able to integrate that fact into my way of thinking, whereas an attitude, you're acknowledging, that this is an analogy. This is a method of thinking, this isn't about truth, this isn't about what ADHD is, this is about how I'm deciding to approach a situation or my life in general.

For example, you when you were waiting to get your super Powers. You didn't actually believe that you were going to and if you did, then you would need to fucking stop at some point. Yeah. Because you're not going to get super power but of course of course you having that attitude is a perfectly valid way or was a perfectly valid way and you navigating that incredibly difficult situation and anybody who tried to would try to take that from you is a piece of shit.

Yeah. And so I think the difference is, is the person who thinks their ADHD superb. Or is that just an attitude that they have that helps them except themselves and and appreciate the good parts of them sort animals are the good parts and bad but you know appreciate the things that they like about themselves and embrace the challenge. Yeah, embrace the challenges that kind of thing are they is is that what they're doing or

they using a model of thought? Or they do they think that ADHD is factually actually a superpower and they just know that to be true because even if a person That factually that believes that ADHD is somehow factually is super happy, super power. The next stage in human evolution, even if they think that and keep it to themselves and don't say it to anybody else. And just never let it, you know, let it come out of them.

Yeah. They're still increasing the overall amount of delusion and and wrongness about ADHD. And I think that in itself, it would be impossible for that to not come out in some way. Whether maybe that's in the form of Instagram posts. Are saying like hey look at me, I'm in each Dean, I'm amazing. I think that's honestly like I think that's maybe like you hit on something.

I think that's maybe one of the reasons why I struggle so much with sort of like the girl boss energy for ADHD is because the implication is, if you just tried hard enough, you could be as successful as me and I don't think that's true. Like, you know what I mean? Like, first off success looks different on everybody, you know.

But I think like one of the reasons I mean, I like people ask me for advice all the time and I never liked and I never, I always like triple and quadruple overthink it because I'm like well what works for me? Isn't going to work for you and so this is sumption that if everybody uses the same planner or if everybody, you know, goes through the same life coach program or whatever. Then like that will make everybody, like, give somebody the equal ability to do the thing. But then you can.

You buy the planner and you buy the book or whatever. And then you can't do it in the way that you know, you're supposed to be girl, bossing then, are you a failure? You know what I mean? Because everybody else knows how to use their superpowers and everybody, you know what I mean? And for those people, you know, for whom that exact planner does work, they're all going to post and tag the thing.

And then, there's gonna be more posts saying that this exact planner which then furthers the narrative that like, oh, if you only use this planner, you idiot or whatever, which of course, is false. I think just sort of analogy that an analogy that I don't know what's going to work, but here we go. That's the today th podcast, I think, when people deal in conspiracy theories, conspiracy theorist, people were all into that whole thing.

I think sometimes it's because the truth that things are messy and don't always make sense and don't always happen for reasons is scarier because of its complexity. So it's easier to think that all the bad things happen in the world because There's a group of evil people making them happen. Then to realize, like, oh, the world is an immensely

complicated place. Like sure there are absolutely some bad people out there, making bad things happen, but then also, some people get fucked over for no reason to tsunamis habit like just some, it's simpler for a brain to just think. Oh it's all this one person's fault or something like that. Yeah. Similarly I think it's simpler to think of ADHD as being a superpower that I haven't harnessed yet then being an immensely fucking complicated disorder.

That has As parts that can be useful in parts that can be detrimental and in all the weird disc, you know, messiness that it actually is, it's simpler to think of it as being a superpower that. I just haven't learned to use yet, and there's hoping that, you know, because maybe one day I will harness it. But again, I think it comes down to. Do you believe that to be objectively? True? Or is, are you thinking or you acknowledging that, that method

of thinking is useful? Because, I mean, I can imagine, I can imagine a person with ADHD saying, to another person with ADHD, ADHD is not a superpower. No, it is not because nothing is but to pretend that it is and see if that helps you. It might not. I'm not saying it's objectively. Correct to think this way. I'm not saying you know, the only thing that's stopping your life from getting better. Is not thinking this way but I can see that as being a thing

that might work for somebody. And if it works for them to say, I am acknowledging that ADHD is not actually a superpower. I superpowers don't exist. I'm aware Are all of that I am acknowledging that, it's not like a decision that you can make to, suddenly think of your ADHD superpower and all of a sudden, you're, like, girl, boss, CEO of whatever I'm acknowledging that, but perhaps it can be helpful to sometimes, just just pretend that, that it is a superpower.

I mean, I walked around all day in a Captain America costume. I know I'm not Captain America. I'm aware that there is no Captain America, but goddamn it. But I felt more confident that I was gonna say. I was like, I feel like The Captain America costume is really great analogy. Mmm, because like, I watched you be more confident.

I watched you carry, like, physically carry yourself in a way that I was like, oh my God, like Eric is like feeling himself right now and I was like, and and so like I feel like that is maybe like weirdly like a really nice sort of like, parallel in, like if it helps you be more confident if it helps you, you know, if wearing the Captain America costume makes you more confident than B. All All means go to Target in a

cock. Okay, Captain America costume because you know, it's important to feel good about yourself and embrace yourself and love yourself for all of your followers and all of your feelings. But the minute that you start believing that you're actually Captain America and and expecting others to treat you as though you are actually Captain America. That's when the issue happens, you know?

Yeah. So I guess that's that's sort of a weird like Sherry frustration I have about this is every conversation about whether or not ADHD is a superpower. I think needs to start with no because super powers aren't real. So, let's just start there. No, it is not, if you cannot agree on that, then that's a whole other problem. Okay, then we need, that's okay that's different because after that then it's can thinking of

it as a superpower. Even though, of course it objectively is not because super powers aren't real. Can that be useful? I think that can be very A productive conversation and be a, very productive thing to do for yourself. And perhaps, perhaps, even. And I mean, perhaps because I honestly don't know where it's all. I've been thinking about this for a long time and I still don't know where I felt fall on it, but perhaps, it could even be a useful piece of advice to

give somebody if done. Very delicately. And you choose your words very carefully because you, obviously, you don't want to communicate to somebody like, oh, no. Not only are you do not have a disorder. You have something amazing.

But you're fucking it up. I'm like that's so much worse, but I can't imagine having a friend who struggles with a lot of things that I struggle with and I can imagine a version of myself who would find use in thinking of my idea to use a superpower sometimes and giving that advice to somebody else. But let's imagine you are in a depressive episode, right? Going through some shit and Iraq up to you.

I don't like, hey man. Like I know, it's a struggle sometimes feel like depression is a superpower. Well, no, because that's not what I'm not saying. Tell them that ADHD is a superpower. I'm telling them to pretend sometimes that it's a super power, even though it of course is not because I want to see you and I told you pretend you're depression as a superpower. What the, what? What? Yeah. I can imagine that. Wow. Yeah. Well, spout. Well, there's some your, the Sad

man. Hello, happy the sad. But I will move through the darkness and then bang oversized hoodie. I can be invisible leaving these social is wherever I will never get lost. I mean, well, for one, I would say that depression is a different disorder than ADHD depression doesn't have the same problem when it comes to people claiming that. It's a super power than a deep breathe. That's my whole point is like why why have we latched on to

this idea of like 80? T is like, do the superpower but like other other disorders and things are I think athd will one. Well, a couple of reasons. One, Eighty HD. I think it's just simply is more useful than depression. I mean, I know that's an awful thing is that? Because these are both mental disorders, we're talking about here, and neither of them are great. But, you know, My THD is sometimes useful. My depression is almost never

fucking useful. Yeah. Unless I'm like physically ill, and need to rest. Rest and it's easy for me to lie in bed for ten days straight then. But most of the time I diversion is not useful into I think as much as there absolutely is a stigma about ADHD because some people don't believe it exists. And well mainly that I think depression is how about this

dangerous also? Because I've been thinking about toxic masculinity a lot but depression can be seen directly as weakness as oh no I'm just weak which of course is not true but perhaps that's not why we like I Openly necessarily tell my boss that I have depression but I might openly tell them that I have ADHD. If I die, I like this might be the first time that we've ever disagreed. Eric, mmm. But like, I feel like that's the thing is like there are people who view, ADHD has eyewitness.

There are people, certainly, yes, occasion thing. You're just not trying hard enough. You're just being lazy. You just need to apply yourself. You just need to buy the planner, like, you just need it. Think of it as a superpower and like, you know, it goes all the way to the whole thing that we're talking about is like, you know, No like whatever. And so like I don't know. William like I think, I think the thing that we're disagreeing on is is it ever? Okay.

Is this our first podcast fight? I don't I don't know if I'd call it a fight but yeah, I think so. And that will cause one. I think we generally agree on stuff and also if we disagree I think we're both decent at articulating specifically what we think. You know, and so, very rarely do we actually arrived at an exact line and go. Oh, I like I'm on this side of the line. You're on the other side of the way.

But I think the question that we're trying That that were I want to say sorry, I just sort of hovering over myself and started listening to things that I was about to say, it happens. It's not anything of a word for that, metacognition to make that follows sick bird. Shout out, Leslie side, you go follow them. Oh, I think the question were circling or I believe the question that we were originally disagreed on is, is it ever a reasonable thing to do to

suggest to someone else? Else that they should pretend or that it might be useful to them to pretend that their ADHD is superpower. Again I said, pretend and under very precise circumstances. I'm not saying, is it okay for that to be a piece of advice that a person gives freely to everybody? Certainly the fuck not, but I can imagine a relationship between two people in which one person uses very precise language and again, they know

each other. This isn't a random person on the street or on the Internet. This is a person that they know Might take this advice. Yeah well or find you some this advice to pretend that it needs to use a superpower. I mean similarly if you're you know, you if you while you were waiting for your superpowers, imagine if you were to see somebody now and that exact same circumstance, you might say, hey you're not going to get superpowers because super powers

aren't real. But to get through these days. What helped me was pretending that this was going to happen or pretending that this was the case again. All of this lies firmly Only in the context that super powers

aren't real. So of course you're not going to get super powers and of course, ADHD isn't a superpower but pretending that it is you know, sometimes when I go to sleep at night, I pretend that as I'm breathing, I pretend that energy is getting shot out the top of my head like all the energy that is causing me to overthink stuff, is going to blast it off the top of my head. That is not true. Of course that's not a literally happening but it's useful for me

to think that way. So anyways I think if we disagree I think we're Disagreeing over that line is, I believe that there could possibly be a circumstance in, which is a reasonable piece of advice to give to somebody that, you know. And, you know, might find the advice useful to say perhaps try pretending that your ADHD is a

superpower. See if that helps you, if it doesn't, then don't do it. You know, I think, you know what, I think it is is the fact that And again, it's like one of the reasons why I struggle a lot with feeling like, my advice is not good enough for like my content. A lot of times isn't isn't right? Or perfect. It's because, like, I really feel like you have to know the person.

And like the problem with Instagram is like these, these people who are who are advocating for this, like idea of these, like, you know, these like life coaches or whatever, they don't know you, they don't know your specific circumstances they do. Know how hard somebody might be struggling or not be struggling. And so in conversation with that, I think that's why it's dangerous and harmful to speak to a community rather than to the individual, you know?

Yeah. Because it's like you don't know what's going on and you don't know like what other comorbidities or things that they might be struggling with. And so, especially in conversation with that idea that like, oh, you're just not super powering hard enough or you're just not super, super heroing right with your ADHD, that could be dangerous. Oh yeah.

For the wrong person to hear like that could be hurtful in like cause like permanent permanent sort of like trauma in terms of feeling like you're you are not, you know, quote unquote doing ADHD, right. And I think that's my hang up on me. Like I I really struggle except you know, very maybe specific circumstances. I really struggle with the Cavalier way that it's thrown

around. Yeah, you know, totally but like yeah I mean if I meant some kid with Mal clonic dystonia who was scared and Afraid and didn't know what was going on with them, like I think I would tell him that story and I would be like, you know what? I used to do is pretend like dogs, maybe it was going to be an X-Men and I would just had to find out what happened. And, you know, I knew that it

was silly. I knew that it was Was not real it was pretend but it gave me something to think about it. Gave me something to daydream, and it gave me something to sort of like, you know, think about more than like the paint not to like totally bring down the room. You know, I might tell that kid that story, but I would never make a video that 1,000 kids could see that says, ADHD is a super-powered. And if you don't think of it that way, then you're wrong. Yeah, I don't know those kids.

That's really interesting. I think, It's almost how it is. Because if I'm claiming that it, perhaps could be useful to someone to have, you know, to give a piece that piece of advice to somebody that you know, very well. Which I do believe is true, but I also completely agree that,

that is a terrible player. Terribly dangerous thing to Justice Powell is to a crowd because to, you know, sure it might help a couple people but it also might hurt the shit out of a lot of other people, which and I, of course, believe that we shouldn't do that. I think the question is then, can we be trusted with it? Can we be trusted with thinking of ADHD is a superpower if it is perhaps Useful in his precise

set of circumstances. However, the circumstances that you most often see ADHD being called a superpower and is when it is being said to a crowd, perhaps in order to get it to not be said to crowds, we should just kind of go let's just not do that. Yeah you know and I don't know that's that's a judgment call. I don't know.

I don't like I mean the real thing is like we don't speak for the ADHD Community. Absolutely are two people with vastly different experiences even like between ourselves. Selves like with our ADHD. Yeah. And frankly, like I don't like my ADHD very much like, you know what I mean? Like and so I think there's maybe some people who do and I think they're men maybe those people are right and I'm wrong. Like that's also entirely possible because like the the sort of Devil's Advocate of the

situation is like okay. Well if telling people ADHD is a superpower is wrong then is it wrong to tell people that ADHD is struggle and common ADHD? Is a challenge. Yeah because then we're perpetuating like a negative stereotype of ADHD. I mean what a great idea examples like. So my dad who was on the podcast last season. Yeah. It was actually one of our most popular episodes. Go check it out. It's a really good. My dad who has ADHD? He didn't know you.

Do you see until he was? I think it was 54 years old. Yeah, and he and I have talked about this not like on a recording but And we have what we've wondered, it would his how would his life have played out differently if he had been diagnosed when he was 20? Because by most measures by, that is a very successful person. Yeah. You know. Success is not some objective quantity but you know he's succeeded in his Endeavors. Generally.

Yeah. And all the while having / like severe ADHD the, when he was eventually diagnosed only. He was only diagnosed because I was getting diagnosed and they were like, oh, just let Just check the pair, you know, because it is due course was a strong hereditary component. So let's check the parents to and my mom was like, no, you don't have it Carl. Holy shit. Okay, cheeks. And we had to make a bigger

chart for you. Like, my God is, he is very severe, hyperactivity HD. But what it would have been harmful Jim, I think to go back in time and say, oh, Carl, you actually have a debilitating mental can just order. Yeah. That would have robbed him of something that would have robbed him of. You know, living his life in the way that he saw fit.

And I think that's just that's really interest because we buy what I do want to say that you are but I think I certainly am guilty of Claiming that it is objectively true that ADHD is a bad thing which isn't up to me. And so I kind of, well it's up to you in terms of its you, your PhD? Well, exactly. And so five, the Wormy Mighty, she is a bad thing, right? I think for other people to, maybe it's not, then maybe it is a superpower. Oh, God, did we just come full circle?

He's a swell. What a? Well, yeah, well I guess I, well, that's it. I think that's the point that you made, and I want to put words in your mouth, but if we have the right to think of already HD is being a disorder. Because I do. Yeah. Then it would stand to reason that another person has the right to think of it as being a superpower. Yeah, the difference being that super powers aren't real but disorders are, but, you know,

whatever. And I mean, honestly, that's that's, I feel like that's sort of where I land on can a person, think about their own identities? Yes, they absolutely can their own because they have the right to think about well anything, however, they want, but they have the right to think about their mental health away. That they want in the same way that I have the right to think of my ADHD is being a disorder that I managed.

But the trouble comes, when you start putting on other people, which is really kind of giving me a mind. Fuck right now because that's what we've been doing for 40 53 minutes now. Yeah, but but I also think I mean like it's just it's just like where do you draw the line? Well I think for every, you know reaction there's an equal and

opposite reaction science bitch. So like Are we just as bad or you know, just as incorrect I guess is maybe a better way of all the saying that unequivocably ADHD is bad or you know, causes struggle, mmm, no, I genuinely don't know the answer to that. Yeah, why I constantly second-guessing myself, because I feel, you know, what I mean? Because it's like, yeah, I like I read a lot of comments sections, a real, uh, comment sections on tick-tocks that are

not mine. And there's a lot of conversation on. You know, other ADHD take talkers like comment sections about like oh well a lot of people, you know, on ADHD chip truck early really - for like a lot of people with, you know, they only talk about the bad things and I'm like, I feel I feel seen by those comments and like maybe a little called out but it's like for me talking about the struggle is the important part, like voicing the

struggle and and, and being able and honest enough to say, like sometimes I forget to pee, like it is hard for me to shower like that kind of thing. Like for me, opening up about that has allowed me to not necessarily think more of my ADHD, but think more of myself. Find self-acceptance and self-kindness and self-compassion. Because I don't feel so alone because there's a lot of other people in the comments who also go on. That's also me that's also my experience.

So yeah, I don't know like I mean I guess we should delete our accounts. Well I think the difference lies in what you just described which is We are describing ADHD in the way that we described a DHD after immense amounts of thought and consideration about exactly what we want to say. And I don't know if a lot of people who claim that it each is

rather have done the same thing. I doubt, I don't, I mean I haven't taken many surveys, but I doubt the people that make those Instagram posts about it. Eh d being a superpower, I doubt they've had lengthy discussions and long, you know, armchair thought sessions about whether or not it's ethical for them to do that. So if a person did have those things and arrived at the conclusion, that it is ethical for them to do that. We would disagree but it would

be thoughtful. Yeah. So one, I think the fact that we're doubting whether or not we have the right to claim that it each D is objectively, anything. I think puts us on better footing, Mast with. Of course, the fact that scientists on our goddamn side, we take, when we do studies about ADHD, we perform worse at the things. That's the whole idea perhaps Perform better on other things and we're not taking those studies because we perform better on them which that's a

topic for a different episode. I'd love to see, I'd like to take some studies when I about the fuck. I'd like to take some studies the hypothesis of which is that ADHD people will perform better on this task than other people. I don't need a special counsel really, which and, I can't remember what it was for, but I remember. It was like a is some Kind of thing where they were he was

like a choice thing. HD people want up like being like really good at it because like, we could handle like the processes, I gotta find that study because I was just sounds like I'm making shit up. Like I think I don't know like ultimately at the end of the day I think I want to close on the point of like you don't have to agree with us, you know?

Like if you if you fervently believe that your ADHD is a superpower and that thought brings you comfort and self-acceptance And self love in a way that considering it a disorder. Doesn't that is okay. That is this doesn't mean that you're a bad person. It doesn't mean that you're doing ADHD wrong. But my truth and my aspiring I frame of reference is grounded

in my experience. And so the reason why I talked about the struggles and the difficulties and and that stuff rather than constantly talking about the positive side of ADHD is because the struggle Eels and the negative parts are really the things that have defined me. The things that I have a hard time with are the are the are the things that I sort of carry with me. And so in my sort of sample size of one, I can only talk about my experience.

And my experience is that my ADHD makes my life extremely frustrating. It has brought a lot of good into it, I've done a lot of things while weird shit had a lot of wonderful experiences but it's an intrinsically part of who I am and so I don't consider it a superpower. At best, I consider it a new trend like a neutrality in my existence but I sure know that what comes with. It has done me a lot more harm than good. And that's it. That's the end of our most

controversial. Yeah, we got I was, I was about to throw a chair. I was up on the top rope uncomfortable. Were you really? I was, I'm very bad at fighting the way it will for what we were. Not for we're having a very like a fight, she really well, I'm sorry, I hope I didn't get really scared that. I heard people say, oh you certainly do not hurt my feelings. And I'm terribly. Sorry if I did I hurt your feelings. Okay. Very nice opinions were respectfully stated.

They were respectfully stated in precisely stated in all that is held for. You know, you go. I think the more the story was don't be a dick to other people. Yeah. It's basically don't tell people how to think about this stuff. I worry so much about hurting people's feelings. You want to do this sick, patreon song, singing people who didn't hurt our feelings this

week. This is all the new patrons because once again if you join our patreon, which is Cam /. Infinite Quest. We put your name in a song. It's like a whole thing. It's become a tradition. I forced Eric to learn to play the guitar, just for this. We've been rehearsing this song all week. So here we go. Ready, I forgot. And treasure and token. Where you started before you're supposed to hear. Let's see. Let's do it. A complete. Let's just do. We got here?

Start you start, you got to follow your lips. Feel the chord progression. I know it's a good one. Thank you. Sarah is in trouble and token mermaid, Kristen to and Kashmir Holloway Sarah, I'm a fucking often. But different. Ever. Zooey Deschanel cover everybody. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for your continued support of infinite Quest. Thank you for 1 million, fucking followers. And from all of us here at infinite Quest, remember to eat a snack.

Remember to drink some water, remember to Take your meds, remember to be kind to yourself, be kind to others, remember that we love you and we'll see you next week. Hit that transition Brian there's no transition to what it's over. I don't transition to, I guess, whatever you're gonna do. Now pedantic, semantics in this moment, that's my band name just because you're dressed like Steve Rogers doesn't mean that you're the boss of me. It definitely does.

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