Hey everybody, it's me Katie asaurus and welcome back to infinite Quest. Before we start as always we've got a few announcements so buckle on it and hang on tight because here they come. Number one, we have a patreon, it's patreon.com slash infinite Quest. And if you're still kind of on the fence about whether or not
you should come. Join our patreon family, this week is a great week to join, and let me tell you why this This week's episode of infinite quest to marks the beginning of the 3-month countdown from Eric moving from California to Georgia in order for us to turn infinite Quest into something sustainable and ongoing and we are terrified and thrilled and excited and overwhelmed and so excited to see where this next
step of infinite. Quest goes we are setting a patron goal of 150 patrons by the end of April and with your help, we can hit that if just one in four of our Owners pledged a dollar a month to infinite Quest. We would have more than enough support to continue running infinite quest to through the end of the year.
It's a big goal. But like we said last week, your support helps us keep infinite Quest, free and accessible for everybody who needs it. And so if you are interested in joining the infinite Quest family head on over to patreon.com slash infinite quest for more information.
And now with that on with the show, So before we go into this, I think one of the things that was like the most interesting for me to realize was that I spent like so long talking about executive dysfunction that I feel like it is very important to note that like the opposite of dysfunction is function. And so like as we're having these conversations like like it's important to keep in mind that like not, every person is going to have the same type of dysfunction.
And also, sometimes your functions just function and that's okay too. That made a lot more sense in my head and then I said it out loud and I'm now filled with regret anyway. So Eric talked to us about executive function know, I think I know what you and I know what you mean. I think that's, that's a good thought to hold in mind, like, going forward, I totally know
what you mean. So what executive, the executive functions of your brain are essentially two sets of Processes that dictate what you should be doing at any given time. It's like, I think of it as sort of, like, the government of your brain, or like the conductor of your brain, your brain can do, all sorts of stuff, humans can do all sorts of stuff. We can do backflips, we can write poems. We can forget to think of a
third thing. It's, we can do all sorts of stuff, but we actually should be doing at any given time, what our priorities should be, how long we should spend on. What we're doing. Those are dictated by the sets of processes in our heads that we call. We Referred to as executive functions and executive dysfunction is when those things aren't good, if they're not good at prioritizing, they're not good at figuring out. What what should be going on at any given time?
It's executive dysfunction comes with time, blindness. It comes with an inability to allocate resources. Both time and energy. So basically executive dysfunction is the inability to decide and settle on what you should be doing at any given time. In a bunch of different ways. Yeah. Well, there's actually seven, Eric, did you know that there are so I was given five. I'm alright. I'm behind you. I'm behind you.
That's, that's okay. So the so like the sort of seven types that they like they Define and sometimes they combine a couple of these, which is where you might get five. And I have seven, I just read I think like a different couple of
articles that you did. But so basically like the the sort of seven types of functions, the seven types of executive function that we talked about, Out, our self awareness self restraint, which sometimes get rolled into one and then non verbal working memory, and verbal, working memory, with which also, sometimes get just get rolled into like, working memory and then emotional regulation self-motivation and planning and problem-solving which also
sometimes get rolled into one or they divide them out. So just kind of depends on like, who is explaining executive function in the article that you're reading. But I It's really interesting because, like, for really long time, I just thought executive function was like, you either
had it or you didn't. And I didn't realize that there were like so many different types, but I mean, it totally makes sense because it's like, your brain is doing so many interesting and complex and nuanced processes at all times. Of course, self-awareness is going to be a very different thing than working memory. Like, of course, like one person might be really great with Like remembering stuff, but not be
great with self-motivation. And so, as we're having these conversations, like, they're there are so many different ways in which executive dysfunction, sort of manifests and shows up, and it's because there are so many different component processes that are like happening in your brain. All at the same time with any given task with any given thing that you're trying to accomplish. And I think that is very interesting. Yeah, absolutely. Going to ask what?
Are. Yeah I was gonna your phone rang. It was great when I turn that off buddy. Okay, okay. All right. I don't even know how this is the. This is your old burner phone. I don't know how to do it. You just gonna keep you. You gotta, you push the button on the side. And then you go, you put in the code. Yep. Or you could just turn it off that also, where it's going to turn it out. That's what I'm gonna do and this is all really generic. This is really good podcasting. That's right.
Well actually, I really, I wanted to ask you what parts of executive function? Like components of executive dysfunction. Do you have the hardest time with? Oh, man.
I think that changes like there's some days when I have a really hard time with like time blindness and sometimes whenever really hard time with like working memory but like on the whole which ones would you say like if you could Thanos snap your problems with these are you know those parts of executive dysfunctions away which would they be?
Um I mean I think for me a lot of my circles are with working memory and motivation because I like one of my kind Kind of shitty superpowers is my ability to like plan and problem-solve. But that also is really interesting because you know, like I'm getting I'm going to rush into doing this new project because of my lack of impulse control and I'm excited or whatever. But then it's like, oh I didn't plan ahead and so it's like is that impulse control?
Is that a lack of planning like you know, does that like which category does that fall into would like you know, I Knock over seven cups of coffee because I was too busy to clear the floor before I built the Ikea shelf or whatever, you
know. So there's there's a lot of overlap and that's one of the challenges about talking about executive function, is that you can take any task taking a shower doing the dishes, you know putting together an Ikea shelf and there are so many different minor tiny processes. Within each of those like tasks that you could honestly study any of them as like a larger commentary on Executive function
as a whole. And I think that's I just keep saying, I think that's interesting but I think Executive function is fascinating. Yeah. Absolutely. Because it's one of those things were, you know, if you you it doesn't matter what you're capable of doing because your executive dysfunction is what you act, dictates what you actually do. Yeah. And so, I can, you can spend all the time in the world learning to to write really well or sing really well or whatever it is.
But if you never actually get there, if you can't organize your your everything enough to actually do that when it matters, then it all kind of feels movement. Which I think I mean when I think of executive dysfunction I don't think about behavioral problems or time management. Although I mean of course those are things that are highly relevant but my immediate Thought is immense, frustration.
When I think, when I hear the term executive function, when I think the term executive dysfunction, I think of anger, and I think a frustration at myself because I experienced that so unbelievably frequently and incessantly because you, but I want to stress that in, like every single article that I read in preparation for this, this podcast, one of the things they talked about was that handling frustration Is in fact in executive function and many people with ADHD, have such a
low frustration tolerance that it like it becomes like a vicious circle of exactly. Yeah, dysfunction. And I'm just like, come the fuck on, man. I know it's insane. I mean I think my two really big ones are time management and time management working memory. Are my two really big ones and I don't know, like, if an outside Observer / were to you know study me for a month you know to
watch my behavior. Perhaps don't those aren't actually the two biggest things that affect my day-to-day life but those are certainly the ones that I get hit on the in the face. With the most, the ones that immediately frustrate me and make me mad like so. So for all this week we have we have the YouTube content that needs to go up. We have two extra podcasts to edit for the next week we have a bunch of like you and I both of our twitch streams. Need a bunch of like editing and
clickety-clack surrounds. That they work in tandem with like the light. There's all sorts of stuff going on and any part of it is useful to work on but what should be what I should be working on a given time? What are at least what? I feel I should be working on and it has given time changes on a, the bed on about 25 seconds, which I made a video about this, a tick tock about this. Ironically, when I was supposed to be doing something else,
what? Because because Was an ADHD person has executive dysfunction. It's a ADHD is a disorder of the executive functions so when an ADHD person is doing something I want to I want to speak for every single ADHD person. But it seems that this experience is very common is certainly omnipresent for me, but the list of priorities are constantly shifting around. If you have a list of a bunch of stuff to do, highest priority thing, I'm going to start working on that.
And if I can get over the lack of Gov of Engagement that comes with executive function. If I can start working on the thing, I only have about 10 seconds 15 seconds before Asgar going away. Before I realize actually that isn't the most important thing to do. This other thing is the most important thing to do. So I'll switch to that because of course because you know, like any reasonable person you want to be doing the most important
thing. So I'll switch to that second thing and I'll start working on that second thing. And then all of a sudden about 15 seconds later, oh actually no no, no, no working on that right now is a terrible idea, you should be working on this other thing, that's way more important and the cycle continues and the cycle continues. So then the options become, you can either always be working on
the most important. Important thing or what you feel is the most important thing like any reasonable person would but then never get anything done because that what that is never stays the same long enough for you to actually complete the task or you can accept that you're not, you know, you could, you could basically constantly be working on what you believe to be a lower priority thing and live in that anxiety of.
Oh my gosh, there's something terribly important that I should be doing right now that I'm not doing but then actually get something done because that's It takes in order to buckle down and focus on the test. I have to accept that I know Midway through doing this task. I'm going to realize that there's something far more important that I actually should be doing that. I'm not doing, but I have to just let that go otherwise. I'll never, I'll never settle on
a task. I'll just keep bouncing and bouncing and bouncing and never get anything done in the fury that I feel at myself and the anger that I feel it myself in the frustration and anxiety. I mean, it's absolutely Bonkers because there's always, I always, there's always the chance that that thing that you think of that's actually more important than the thing that you're working on actually, is more important. A broken clock is right, twice a
day. And so there's that fear of, oh my gosh, what if this is the time that I'm right? But I have to not, I can't go down that line. Because as soon as I do, as soon as I start following the chain of my constantly, shifting priorities, I'm gonna get 2% of everything that I'm doing done, and never finish any of it and not hit any of my deadlines and then, the world will explode.
Well, it's funny that you said that because I pulled this quote because it's a pretty famous quote about ADHD at this point, but Russell Berkeley who is like kind of like one of the foremost athd dudes said about executive dysfunction, he said it is not that the individual does not know what to do. It is that somehow it does not get done. That is and I love that quote because I feel like that's the that's one of the most. Most common questions that I get
asked all the time. It's like that activation and the focus. It's the, how do I start a task? How do I motivate myself to do the task? How do I get stuff done? And a lot of times, I don't have a good answer because I struggle with the same thing. Like, I absolutely struggle to start the task, you know? And and do I have a perfect system? No, like a lot of X. I don't start the task or I put the task off or, you know, whatever.
And the fact that a lot of that is rooted in executive dysfunction and it's not Something be like, it's not something wrong with me. It's not something wrong with the person who can start the task. It's just a inherent issue. Like it, how your brain functions that was. That was kind of earth-shattering. The first day that I learned that because that was one of the first times that I really started to think about like, oh, maybe I'm not broken, maybe
maybe. I'm that maybe there's not something inherently terribly, you know? No, wrong with who I am. It's just my brain works differently and I don't know, I don't know where I was going with that, but that makes me think of something we talked about with burritos, an idiot. See when they were on the podcast. Way, back when we talked about mental neutrality. Yeah. How if you're in a position where you don't like your brain, you don't like yourself going from there to self-love is a
huge dump. Yes, you're going from one end of the spectrum, all the way to the other. And so just getting to the middle, just getting to neutrality about yourself is perhaps the first step and I would argue necessary, in fact. Yeah. Because in order to understand in order to sort of to love something, it helps to know what it is. And I think viewing viewing, you know, whatever issues are going on with your brain, in a subjective way.
And, and thinking I I hate them. I don't like them, I wish they weren't. So how dare I be this terrible person that I am or whatever? That's not useful in terms of solving a problem at all and being objective about it and thinking okay what is actually going on here is I think of an essential first step towards loving who you actually are not loving this idea of who you could be, but realizing who you are now such to accept them and go. Okay, that's who I am. That's cool.
I was skeptical. No, I don't. I don't look Scott. I mean maybe I do. That's probably what my face looks like right now because I'm disappointed. I was I was looking forward to digging down effect. No, no, I mean what I was going to say was I was gonna save this till the end because I wanted to talk about like okay well executive dysfunction is
problem, how do we fix it? But one of the things that I've been thinking about a lot is like, how often The, the solution that we have, has nothing like the the actual solutions that are offered by experts and therapists and all of these things. If you look, it kind of has nothing to do with you. And I think that's really interesting. What does it mean? Well, so like, I mean they talked a lot about like, okay. So you have executive dysfunction, how do you fix it?
And there are some people who say like cognitive behavioral therapy or just you know, like psychology or Or whatever. Like they're they're all these different sort of like mental things. But a lot a lot of the suggestions about how to overcome executive dysfunction is about your environment. It has nothing to do with your brain and I think that says something profound about how executive dysfunction works, right?
Because for some people like it's so extreme that things like Patient or therapist or that kind of thing can like help you define systems and and work around, you know, certain things for a lot of people like executive dysfunction, kind of just like a process that like runs in the background at all time. That is kind of like a but doesn't necessarily like profoundly affect in a way. We're like therapy is going to solve the problem.
So the suggestions are things like Post-it notes, or signs or It lists or apps or clocks or alarms. And and so it's never, it's this kind of like I like, I don't know what I'm trying to say, but I think it says something profound about executive dysfunction that in none of the reading that I've ever done. Has anybody ever been like, oh, here's how you. Hi, here's how you fix yourself. It's always cures, how to, like, put up some Post-it notes and a
clock. Lock in order to assist yourself because this shit is not going away. Like you just got to build the system and I think that's Hugely important and yeah, like be implications of that are very interesting. I actually did just last night, I was listening to this podcast called the weekly wuxia. I think they're much bigger than we are so high, but they're gonna hear this but they gave on one of their like, they do these little tiny episodes on one of them, they talked about.
One of the tips for overcoming executive function, was actually that it was internal No, it was not. How do you alter your environment such to such to I suppose mediate the effects of your executive dysfunction? But how do you actually start to overcome it? And it's something that whenever something like this comes up my whole brain, sort of freaks out which is very telling and something I need to unpack. But what they recommended was this concept of healing your inner child.
I probably was my sorry. I shouldn't have It at that, I paused. So you could I know it's okay. But the idea being that there are deep-seated reasons for a lot of different things in ways that we behave, including trauma, including positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement all sorts of things going on.
And so, Rather than sort of rather than you know, temporarily altering your environment, such to momentarily, overcome your executive dysfunction, the longer-term work is sitting and searching within yourself and going. Why is it that? Whenever I look at my bed and go, I need to make my bed my whole body thinks I'm going to die. Why is that? Why is it that if I have a work project that's due tonight at midnight, my whole body, freaks out and things like everybody's Gonna Hate.
Two if you don't get this done and nobody's ever gonna like you ever again and you're going to be fired, you're going to live on the street. Why is that the case for me? What happened to did? Something happen did a my is there a cyclical thought going on and doing that work is terrifying but it's perhaps some of the work that needs to be done. Hey everybody. You did it. Congratulations. You made it to the middle of the episode. I'm really proud of you. Look around you.
You see that Empty Glass? That's just sitting there. Yeah, that's right. I know it's there. I can see it. I see everything you should go put some water in it and you should drink it because you need to drink some water because I worry about you. Hey, also, just real quick, this week's episode is sponsored by Z world.com that Ze L o0, elle.com. And if you use code, Katie, oh, that's code, C 80. Oh, they'll give you 10% off your order of glasses, they sell glasses. You guys.
I don't know. I every week, every week. I'm legs a little.com, see ELO accompany. I get so focused on spelling it right that I always forget to tell you what they sell, they still sell glasses, they still glasses last week, they're gonna sell glasses this week and you should buy some of them because it helps support infant request. You know, it's just, just, just listen to the rest of the show. Okay. Bye everybody. Transition. Hey, everybody really important.
Bonus, commercial announcement, Eric and I are thrilled to announce that. We have big news on the infinite Quest front, it's that we just dropped the first episode of our brand new web series called Katie and Eric do stuff if you like the try, guys, if you like, you know, the bone Appetit, kitchen videos, maggot, you're going to, you're going to love
Kate and Erik do stuff. Because if you do stuff in a can, Chin. Well, this first ones in a kitchen, we're going to do stuff a lot of other places too, but we're really excited about this new Venture into YouTube. And so if you want to head on over its youtube.com infinite Quest. And that first episode is now available. So surprised we have a YouTube series now too, so uh, you're welcome even more infinite Quest from us to you. We hope you enjoy. Also this word. It's our first one.
So, so be nice. We're really nervous. Okay. I feel like I fundamentally disagree in like a way that like, I've never disagreed with you before, and I think maybe just think it might depend on like the sources that you're looking at. I posted I'm not saying that I fully stand behind an advocate for everything this but I just never thought of that. So I thought it was I thought it was necessary to bring up.
No, no. I mean I think it's super valid and I think that there is a lot of a lot of folks with ADHD Carry a lot of trauma for like a lot of different things like especially people like me who have like late diagnosis but like executive function is just a process in our brain and so like, I like I really feel like I'm not qualified to talk about
this. Like I feel like I need to just stop because like I like from like I listen to that and I go my inner child has nothing to do with the the fact that like I struggled to like, Organize tasks. But making it about my inner child. I feel like could almost do more damage. Hmm. Because instead of like creating a solution and creating a system, I'm now worried about like I don't like I don't know, I really do feel like it was just not talking because I feel like I'm gonna die.
Yeah, I totally totally know what you mean, I think because on the whole we're at it's on at its core executive dysfunction is a fault. In fundamental processes that occur in your brain. There aren't their nature. They're not nurture as far as we know, but perhaps they can be Amplified and made worse by external factors. And so, perhaps, my time blindness is a certain level of
bad. But because of, you know, because of all the times I was, you know, my my I don't give my call my parents in front of the whole class and tell them why I was late in high school or something like that. Perhaps that made it even worse and that can be sort of unpacked and reduce pressures because well because ultimately, I think you're right. These are cognitive processes
that we're talking about here. These are these are literal things occurring in your brain that can't necessarily be have thought of It's just so weird because like, I just like and one of the reasons why like I feel like the the gifted and talented Ravenclaw and me is just screaming because I can't find, I cannot find a consistent answer, really depends on who you look at. Because in some of the research that I read, it's like, it's all systems.
It's all Post-it notes and clocks and, and white boards, and, and phone alarms. And then some people say, like, no, it is, is like trauma work, it is, you know, Cognitive behavioral stuff. It's learning how to have like and so it's like it's really weird how there's like no consistent answer and I think maybe that is the answer is that it really varies person to person and some people have had better structures and a better environment and better coping
mechanisms to begin with. And so they don't have that like additional like sort of like latent trauma that other people might have that can absolutely Lutely impact your executive dysfunction. Oh absolutely not. I mean like maybe that is the answer but I just want I won my brain wants it to be very black and white. But problem with talking about any sort of like neurodivergent e is like there's literally no such thing as black and white.
But I just I just want the answer, like, is it systems or is it counseling? Or is it therapy or is it boat like what is it? What fixes it but then also, that is like, there's not a fix. There is a a Adapting and building and and living with and managing. But there's not like a magic button that you push and then one day you wake up and you have time management skills like it's really hard. You know.
Oh yeah. And I think I think every instance of for me personally, I think every time when I can directly recognize executive dysfunction and pairing my performance on a thing, every time I can recognize this This initial fundamental structural thing, like, the fact that I actually had, don't know how much time has passed, or the fact that this task that I'm working on that. You know, a minute ago, I thought was the most important task. I now no longer think is the
most important test? It's actually, this other thing, those sort of basic occurrences. But then immediately after that builds, frustration and anger and anxiety, and wish that this weren't so and those make it worse, Worse. Yeah, it was tend to make my perception of time. Even more flawed and those tend to make my ability to prioritize even more tenuous or my my connection to my priorities,
even more tenuous. Yeah, and that sort of I also want to bring up the pursuit of brings me onto my life. I feel like what might be the next section of the podcast ad break? And we're back. Sorry that's I just I just made it so I have to cut that out later. Renamed that did I really? Yeah, sorry. Am I really loud to everybody? But I there are a couple of things that I do that. I think helped. I by no means want to present myself as being somebody who has wholesale overcome, their
executive dysfunction. Because absolutely that's not true but there are a couple of things I do that. Help that I don't hear a spouse very often and I was wondering if we could talk about those things for a little while if you would be all right with that dear podcast partner. Yeah. I'm just like I literally like in this moment just realize how frustrated I am about this whole last topic. Really like.
Yeah because it's like I know a lot about executive dysfunction like I know a lot about it but this is the first time I think that I have true. Uli ever felt out of my depth in speaking about it because in like, that's interesting. but like, Literally all I can focus on is like I have no idea what I'm talking about. I didn't like I had like I have a lot of idea what I'm talking about because like, I like I fundamentally understand and maybe this is executive
function, I don't know. But it's like I absolutely understand the symptoms of executive dysfunction. Like, I understand how it manifests in people, I understand, especially like in the ADHD brain like I Yeah, I could talk about that. I can confidently and very confidently, be like, okay, like let's talk about the breakdown of a task and what executive function does in the breakdown of that task. All of that, I've got all of that on lock, but the minute, the minute I start talking
about, like, how do you help? I'm like, I'm not a therapist. I'm not a counselor. I'm some fucking asshole on Tick-Tock who talks about sex in. ADHD and I feel so woefully under qualified that like I just like, I don't want to talk about this anymore and so maybe that's executive dysfunction, or maybe that's rejection sensitive dysphoria or maybe I'm just like Not. Okay, but like I genuinely am freaking out right now. Like I just I want you to know that.
That is like, I'm like I'm crying, you can't tell this because I'm the lighting is good, but I'm getting like anxiety about talking about this, and that's very weird and that's never happened before. So take that inner child. Fuck you. I don't know, I don't know what's happening. This is weird. Gosh I'm sorry like I don't apologize. I think this is fascinating like I don't like it's an it's the opposite of a podcast break through to podcast breakdown. We've gotten one of the next level.
Yeah, I don't like, I don't know why this, I think it's just because sorry, I didn't mean to derail this. I'm so sorry. No. But I think it's because Like live time. I'm realizing how frustrating it is to have to kind of accept that sometimes there isn't one answer. There's, it's not, like, writing a paper, right? Like it's not like, oh, pick a topic and pick a thesis and then you do your like there's no steps.
There's no process. It's just you and maybe a good therapist, or some Post-it notes or a whiteboard like, trying to like, Cope and manage but like I think sometimes I get so resentful of having to just manage of having to just cope of having to just have nine phone alarms and and you know, have the Whiteboard and have the post notes that I'm like upset about it because it's like, it's just it's always it's a, this is a
really bad example. And now, I'm just ranting and I'm very sorry, we can cut all of this out. If you I want but like it was like the day where I realized that I liked might myoclonic, dystonia was not going to go away. Like I think that's it's kind of like that. It's like that moment where you realize like, this isn't something you fix. This is something you live with for the rest of your life. And like, I don't think about that a lot.
Like, because like most of the time, like I just kind of like exist with ADHD and depression. And and executive dysfunction is kind of like that background process, but when we talk about it and we bring it To the Forefront, like the anxiety. And the, the sadness may be of like, realizing that like, oh there's no off but there is no, there is no.
Part where like this ends. Like it's just, this, this is what I get and like, I feel like maybe that is where some of this is coming from is from that like moment of like, I'm always going to struggle with tax, like I can, I can get better, I can build systems, I can build structures, I can. I can do cognitive behavioral therapy and and get better. But all of that is for a baseline that other people just wake up with in the, in the middle.
Like they just wake up in the morning and they can just go do the thing and sometimes that is very overwhelming to me. I think that's what I think. That's what that is. I just work. Through that. Just work through that right here on the podcast, I'll stop talking now. No, Katie, I love you so much. Oh please, you're always talking II think I I sorry I broke the ice guest. Know you did you didn't you just you to get changed the podcast, get you done changed it and
that's fantastic. No, that's fantastic. I think, you know, I know the last couple times when we've been trying to figure out what we're going to talk about, I write up executive dysfunction a couple times. Haven't done it until now and I think I think. Geez. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. This, I think I think it's because part of me is doing the same thing.
Part of me is realizing that I am always going to have to work to do, what other people wake up already doing organizing their their, their day and their mind and, and understanding how time passes, I'm always going to have to work hard to achieve, what other people have is Baseline. And I think honestly there's a there's grief in that. I'm part of me is morning. The idea that one day, this will all be gone.
And one day, I'll be such a something person, an Uber match, like some mental superhero, who can, who can organize their whole day and stick to the the schedule that they written out and made the phone calls and done the emails. I that's never going to happen. I mean, I can get to something that looks like that, but it's going to take A lot of work and effort over time and that's not my strong suit because I think part of it is genuinely grieving.
And yeah, for the freedom that I would have. If I didn't have to deal with executive dysfunction all the time. Also, the fact like, I don't know if you have this but again, we fundamentally change this entire as podcast, but like I can't, I can't stick to a schedule, like I have been a professional stage manager for years. Like, I'm excellent at sticking to it. Schedule. I'm excellent at showing up at work on time.
I'm excellent at, you know, paperwork and filing and all the shit that like a person with ADHD is not supposed to, but the energy cost and the expenditure and the stress of of doing that of doing the thing that I think for a lot of people who don't deal with executive dysfunction, come so easily. Like, that's where I start to get really resentful. Because it's like, yeah, I'm very successful. I'm very good at what I do but you have no idea how much it
cost me on the back end. You have no idea. I mean, you do like you Eric personally do but like the proverbial, you the Royal you like they like I don't think people see it and I think that's one of the hardest things about having a neuro Divergence e is is weak.
When we have our shit together when we are functioning, when we are overcoming that executive dysfunction, the huge energy cost, the huge amount of effort that we expend just to get through the day like a functioning, human being is so much higher. But like, we don't we don't talk about it a lot. We don't we don't address it a lot, you know. Yeah, it's me, just me, just go.
Oh yeah, let's I don't know. I mean I think perhaps part of the reason we don't address it and talk about it a lot is because it's not just hard to talk about with other people. It's hard to think about just with yourself within yourself. It's hard to think about a dress because it's infuriating a lot of the time. It's in, it's angering and it's frustrating and it's fucking unfair.
And so, Every time I swear for the first time in a podcasting, like, oh, we can't put clean on this episode, okay, I'm pretty sure is going to be the one but know, I always started way before you. It's fine, that's true. But I think perhaps part of the reason we do talk or perhaps, the reason I won't speak for other people. Perhaps reason I don't talk about it is because I immediately get really mad and really frustrated and I start spinning out and I feel like I look like an idiot.
And And and I feel like I'm making it worse for the other person or some reason. Like I feel like by knowing I mean I think it's part of it is self-aggrandizing like I'm worried that I'm going to describe it in such a wonderfully accurate way that it's going to get worse for them, you know. So I like I keep it to myself because I don't want to like which is stupid. I mean that's so like I'm not that good of a writer but part of me is afraid of that. But I think just the amount of
energy that That it takes. I mean also. So I haven't talked about this on the podcast yet. I talked about it once on Tick-Tock, but I'm also an alcoholic. And so an enormous amount of energy spent every day for me resisting, the urge to drink like it or not like it like half of all of my energy goes into resist at any given time. Right? Now, as we're recording this, I'm putting an enormous amount of energy into not drinking and to not thinking about how I'm
going to drink. Done recording into all of it. I won't go into the Grim details of it, but enormous amount of energy is going into that. And so once I've got that sort of on lock for the next minute or so I can then spend the remaining energy trying to figure out how I'm going to spend this next minute. An enormous amount of that is trying to conceive of what a minute is and what can be done
in a minute. Because my understanding of time is so shitty and we're just you just constantly as you Whittle away at the available. Energy. And the more neurodivergent sees you stack on top of each other, or mental disorders, whatever you want to call on top of each other. The smaller that margin of available energy left is and I think through training, both in the both in the culinary world and in the classical music world, I've learned that well, Jesus, I think that's why.
I'm so why I care so much about efficiency. Holy shit. I think that's why I care so much about efficiency years have, I guess break. This is a very lucky break through.
I mean, I don't want a cheap in that term, but maybe but a lot of the times when I can't start a task is because I know I'm not going to do it the most in the most efficient possible way and I have a number ways that I deal with that but a lot of times I don't do things because I know it's not going to be the most efficient possible way, and I think that, This from my perceived scarcity of ample energy of expendable energy.
And so if I only have 5% of my available energy at any given time into the creation of things and to and to the, you know, accepting the world as it is in giving back to it or whatever the hell enjoying the world calling to me, then I have to make sure that all of that energy is spent efficiently and the idea that I don't is terrifying and it absolutely makes my executive dysfunction worse because if I'm not going to do it the most efficiently than I should just not do it and
spend that energy elsewhere. If I'm not going to clean my room the most efficient possible way then I should just not clean my room and just put fuck that and then spend my time doing something else that I perceived to be important editing a video or editing a podcast, or something like that. And I had something. So I mean some of those something or to perhaps be useful for one second, something that I do to combat that is to just deliberately do things in
efficiently. Think like, I'm going to do this in officially, all right. Screw it. Like I'm just going to deliberately do this on inefficiently and that at least gives me some semblance of like a feeling of control but that helps a little bit. I also want mom while I'm being useful, I suppose. One of the biggest helpers with that is I put aside the notion
of becoming motivated. I think I hear a lot from from people messaging me in comments on my videos and stuff and people emailing us about getting motivated and I think Sometimes in my response to not being motivated is to put aside the importance of motivation to just completely table the concept of motivation, which I believe is a Shakespearean word to table is a verb. I don't know, why did I say that to put that notion aside and just think how long can I do
this unmotivated? How much can I just, how long can I white-knuckle this task doing the dishes? So completely on, how much can I just physically force my body to do this task for how long 15? Ends maybe, 30 seconds, whatever it is, the smallest possible unit of time that, you know, you can physically force yourself to do a task for, and set a timer for that, about a time and do it for that amount of time.
So if there's a bunch of dishes and shit in your room for 30 seconds, I'm just going to experience the discomfort of bringing those dishes back and then doing it for 30 seconds and then at that point sometimes you might have enough momentum to keep going. Anyways, I was talking about. Excess energy and Expendable energy, understand stuff.
I don't know. I'm I'm just really I think I don't want to I don't want to speak for you Katie but I think I know you well enough to know that we're I think we're both as we're discussing this realizing how much like I don't want to say deeper this goes. Whoa but whoa how in the city is this is it's it's sort of like there's that joke. One of my favorite jokes that there are two young fish
swimming along in the ocean. When an older fish swims past the older fish says to one of the younger fish. Hey Hey boys. How's the water? After a moment? The two young fish swim along and one turns to the other and says, what the fuck is water? I think I love that joke cetera. Thanks well, because it's to paraphrase, David Foster Wallace, I gotta pull out my straight white male card. Sorry, it's a thing that we talked about do plaster walls, the purpose of that joke.
Is that the things that are the most ubiquitous in the most consequential are, often is so ubiquitous that they take a lifetime to even know Notice that they're there and they're very difficult to talk about and I think my executive dysfunction is very much that way, is it so everywhere, it's so much.
So the water that I swim through that it's hard to even identify and talk about, it's a really, really good way to put that like honestly Is, yeah, just the the amount of energy and focus that it takes to just like work through the dysfunction in order to function. A lot and like one through
molasses. Yeah. Well and I mean like and I think like we both have exceedingly complex sort of mitigating factors like you are an alcoholic and I deal with chronic pain and so every day I wake up and my hands feel like they're on fire and that takes a lot of energy, you know, like that sucks when you're just fucking spine, feels like it's melting out of your body and so like the the mitigating factors make it so much More complex
because it's like, how much energy are you spending thinking about drinking, how much energy am I stinking thinking about like my hands? Not working, you know, and and it's, it's it just gets to be so much sometimes that I feel like conversations about executive function, turn into conversations about just So much more that very quickly here because of all the water that surrounds us all the time.
Yeah that I really like something that my mom and I do is we've named our depression and that helps us sort of identify it and and perhaps come to terms with it - name is Mildred which is kind of cool. So you know, if I'm depressed as I go Mildred's here, which is fun, it sort of adds some levity to this. Situation. But also I mean ultimately words are just things that I did Circle Concepts. So that when we want to refer to a concept, we don't have to describe it.
Every time we can go. Okay, this thing, let's call that an elephant that thing over there. The elephant we don't have to say that big huge thing over there with the trunk. We can just say elephant, cool. And so with executive dysfunction, I mean, the term executive dysfunction already exists but that's sort of a wordy weird thing. And if you, I mean, if you do if you do Search, dear listener. If you do research on Executive dysfunction, you're going to find so many different.
There's no, there doesn't seem to be like just Cannon. Like, this is what exactly you're going to find articles saying, the eight types of executive functions or this of the five types of executive dysfunctions or like is ADHD inherently part of executive dysfunction, or is it executive function? A result of ADHD, it's a wormhole. And so, anyways, for that reason, I think To yourself, even not just to talk with other people but to yourself in your own head, it's useful when you
arrive at a huge concept. That's so that's very ubiquitous and therefore hard to talk about like like the water like water to name it something so that you can go that because a lot of energy gets expended just arriving at that concept again such to sort of think of it and deal with it. But if you can think of your executive functions as You know, as being Stephen or something like that. I don't know perhaps perhaps if you're great.
Accept my depression it is the name of my great actually have a naming contest for my depression. Oh gosh Agatha. Now that's rich. Victorian widows name. Oh that's right. Um far enough let's let's keep farkles Tim pure. I like the mechanical. Stone has a lot of potential there. Hey Eric. You know what we never did? What's that second attended video? Executive dysfunction. Gosh, all right. Well, everybody that episode turned into something very different than what we intended
and that's totally okay. And if hanging and I think kind of awesome. I'm not, I'm not sorry. So there you go. Katie sorry I'm not sorry so that Nets that Net Zero but anyways yeah I don't know my guess. I'm gonna I'm gonna sit and think about life for a little while now. So I feel like I need to stare into the middle distance for a second. Yeah, me too. All right, well, enjoy the enjoy, the outro music. Bye everybody transition. Well everybody that's our show
for this week. So from all of us that have been a quest, thanks so much for listening.
We know that this week's episode got a little bit vulnerable at the end and we just kind of wanted to say thank you, thank you for being a community where we can have these conversations and feel safe and supported and know that maybe somebody else out there is feeling the same way we do, and that really means a lot to us. So just know that we're really thinking about that this week and that we appreciate you a
lot. Oh no. I made the closer vulnerable to that's I feel like that's probably fine giving the context of the episode. Oh well. Hey speaking of a community we have some new patrons that we'd like to shout out this week. So a huge infinite Quest. Thank you, goes out to the following folks special. Thanks this week. Goes out to Lizzie and Teresa and Nova, and Sylvie, and Rebecca and ID, and Alex, thank you so much for being here.
And thank you so much for your support and also I just decided in this moment that if you support us next week, I'm going to write your name into a song. So if you've been waiting Eating. This is your moment next week you get a song. So from all of us at have been a quest, thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. Remember to take your meds remember to drink water. Remember to be kind to yourself this week and just remember we love you. See you next week, everybody.
Eating. This is your moment next week you get a song. So from all of us at have been a quest, thank you for being here. Thank you for listening. Remember to take your meds remember to drink water. Remember to be kind to yourself this week and just remember we love you. See you next week, everybody.