Sit Stay. Okay. Hi sorry the dog. Who's being very quiet? This is her first podcast, dog. It's true. Hi buddy. Here I'm going to take her collar off. Okay, yes. I was eating the whole time. That's pretty smart. You gotta get one of those clicklist collars those exist. Yeah, there's like a guy who is he's actually neurodivergent and he started a company where it was like, noiseless dog tags because his dogs tag was like not since really good for no
shit. Yeah. So now they have like, Like it's like a little I think it's like silicone or something and he just so you can like order them but they like have all the custom information on him and stuff. So that's awesome. I know, right? I actually like that. I'm seriously thinking about getting one. Yeah, I know, right? I mean, it's a really, it's really Charming. It is like, it's just a lot because she's trots are on the house. Look, I know the time kinkaku. Clang. Ohh. Clang ohh.
Clang, ohh. Clang, ohh. Clang. Yep. It sounds exactly like that. Well, hi everybody. It's me. Hey dude. As soon as me Katie asaurus and welcome back to Ink, What's that wasn't gonna duel? The transition. We we need to bring back transition. I know what we stopped, we cut went down to a half an hour so we can have an interstitial anymore. Oh, yeah, that's very little interstitial, but we can still transition in the stuff. I guess today's episode is about
a topic. Nice. Katie transition is episode is about transition to the real description of the episode. There's episode is about clutter because is it? It will every day of my my fucking life is about clutter here. I don't get a break from having a, I'm having a bad, a bad clutter week, but I have a slight excuse which is that I hurt my back and so then I wasn't keeping up with stuff. You're not allowed to tell ya, you know how to also to pick up
and move things unrelated. This is C. This is some behind the scenes stuff. I'm just very zoomed out for our front wall. Because what I was to say is, I'm looking at the computer and I can see how big the like noise. Think he's our and it seems like the microphones are really loud. Might know. It's just like BTS. I could hardly turn my name, the band. That's the answer behind the scenes. It's a weird or his little behind the scenes. Not, yes. If you was it.
So my voice always gets picked up in your microphone. Oh really my voice just bounces really well you have about Tia bouncy Guy voice. The only way to turn a girl videos. I will say this. Oh yeah she just laid right down. Well, it doesn't matter but basically yeah, I could probably stand to turn it down a bit but basically my voice just picks up in fucking everything that's fair also. Why is it Narnia in your office? What do you mean? It's so cold. Oh, I don't know the cold air,
just cools. Fuck out of this room, a little while. You had the air conditioning Connors, like, 40 degrees outside. That's what about the garage through. Is that, oh, no, I feel like now you have the cold office. I don't feel bad about it. Okay, I'll probably - wage. No, I'll be cold. It's okay. I don't want To move any of this stuff ever again. Well, speaking of yeah. So today's is about clutter glitter. So, every single fucking day of
my life is about clutter. Yeah, it's just today, I'm gonna not hide it during a phone, that's like a really good. So much of our job is not doing things. It's just being honest about the things that we usually hide from people. Yeah, radical honesty. Yeah. I mean, Claire is one of those things that like, kind of seams, It's one of those things that everybody struggles with and therefore, it often gets overlooked when it's a chronic issue.
Yeah, I think that really hit me when I talk to Allison. Lush, the national organizer. Yeah. So a while ago, okay, you did 12. I think, but Katie and I both spoke in front of this woman named Alison while she was a professional organizer. Who also trains her organization is incredible. She's also on Tick-Tock, Allison underscore Lush. I also know if you're listening, but she trains professional
organizer. And so she had me and Kate, but separately, I basically just talked to her class about what the actual experience of like of having ADHD is like, because as you can, imagine a huge amount of their clients, have it HD and within talking to her and listening to, like, questions
from the class. It really made me realize how frankly like clinical chronic disorganization is like, I know, it's not like you can't get diagnosed with clinical disorganization but like for a A lot of people it is not just an issue of like neglecting to put away your Schmidt Betty Boop's. It's like since I was capable since I was a donor of things when I was like a little child collecting rocks, my shit has been all over the place. Yep.
For a million different reasons like the reasons change based on circumstances and the type of item and what I'm going through in life. But like my shit has always just been everywhere. It's usually a combination I've noticed between prospecting ideas for how to Put away my stuff. Yeah, you know, like where how I could organize it and should I do by color by function or like should I, you know, should I put this wire with all my other wire
stuff? Even though I only use this particular wire for this particular thing, should I put it in the box of stuff that has that, you know, the specific thing and inertia put it with the rest of the wire? It's anyways. But yeah, I I don't, I wouldn't say I'm a person who has anxiety attacks like, I know dings. I attacks are and I don't think I've really had a full-on one of those, but I got it. Pretty damn close.
And it's always when I am decluttering or attempting to declutter particularly my desk, but all, but any of my stuff I freaked out like my hands. Start to shake its happen on stream a couple of times actually. But like my hands start to shake and I start to like it short of breath and I start to go like, just need to like, leave the space which now that I say it out loud. That's the exact allowed to say that you have that. I guess I guess they can vary in severity.
Also I'll give you a dollar if you move that light from shining in my eyes also can't see you, you're like a spooky scary shadow. Oh yeah. You want me to turn by the? I don't know. Now we're just sitting at this real spooky. Yeah. You turn off the overhead. Yeah because his overhead light. I'm not trying to bring that energy into my life. That's fair. You kidding. Yeah that's very fuck out of here with that shit. How do you how do you live with an overhead light? I don't know.
It's disgusting. I mean I don't like prefer it but its capital in Minecraft. Slight I could but then I have to like get up I'll get up. Do you know we're already digressing a whole bunch? It's fine Whiting. Well, actually, I was To say lighting also ties into clutter for me. You think a real? Yeah, I recently very recently realized this but it's like, I hate overhead light. Like I just I just I just oh my God, I hate as much but like the thing is is like overhead.
Light is like, for cleaning in my head is like like overhead. Light is like what you put on when you have to like do chores or whatever. Oh yeah. And so then when it's like an overhead lights on them like you but then it's like it's also how you can like most efficiently. See your face. And so then when click dark Cozy. Then I'm like, I don't mind the glitter as much, but it's like when like the light is on, is like exposed to the light of day then I'm like oh no.
Yeah, that's true. I've noticed that like I think I'm turning the light on sure. Remember when we like started this podcast and were like, oh no, like the bed crate. We have to like redo the whole episode, and now I'm just like fuck it. I'm gonna bring in my dog and get up halfway through the episode.
Why I actually know I noticed that too with lighting and clutter like that's why I have like my sort of This lighting is much better like that just points sort of at my desk and like, the very immediate surrounding area, because then it's like, all right. This is my, like a bubble. I'm in my little bubble, and I'm Michael Buble Michael Buble and it's not cluttered outside of this little circle of light. It is very clean outside the circle white.
It's just I mean it's not but I've noticed that too and then. Yeah, I feel like Yeah when it like it would be really hard for me to clean in this sliding like it's very saw. It's very warm, it's very like you're like oh it's fine it's like my cozy little cave exactly like you put on the overhead light is a guy. Everyone is filthy like I don't know I wish like I know that we said like we didn't want to do
like a downer episode. Yeah. Like I wish there was more of a conversation about just like how debilitating clutter can be. No. I mean because it's My. So my office is still like half an office after you moved. And I just walk in every day and I just there's like piles there. Just piles of shit and I go, I should do something with that pile. But then it's like, It becomes it becomes both systemic and foundational at the same time, because it's like, you know, I
have like this pile of stuff. Okay. Well, if I take this pile of stuff, where does the pile of stuff go, and then you go over to the closet where you're like, oh, I could put the pile of stuff in this closet and then you open the closet and the closet is also full of bullshit and he go. Okay. Well then, I guess, you know, should it?
And then you just realized it like, every single foundational piece of your space is like, not Not good and so there's like no and it's just it's like a top-to-bottom that. Yeah. And it's and I've always been that way like I'm the same way like I liked as a kid like the the thing that ivo's most like vividly remember is just like my mom constantly getting on me about like my room being dirty and I'd be like it's not dirty. It's just I need to see my
stuff, you know. But at the time nobody knew that I had a So it was like, just try harder. Yeah, I got to be eigen value to be real honest, with myself. When it comes to like it's not stupid. If it makes your life easier or systems look different for everybody versus me just fucking off and just yeah Clark so fucked up a lot too. That's not I don't want to sign it like as a moral failing because like I know it is clinical. Yeah. But sometimes having stuff kind of everywhere.
Like what? Like if I'm actively working on a project then I often leave that stuff. Just all the fuck over my desk like, you know, the little Scraps of, you know, tinfoil and the tools that I'm using and whatever and that's just like, you know, a workflow thing. It's so that every so it's that I remember what I'm doing, it's what I remember where I was and what I was doing based on the tools that are on my desk. Yeah, I mean I know that is intentional. Those are sort of emergent
qualities. So like that I would say is a system. If somebody came up to me was like your desk is dirty to be like no, it's just mid-project like that's what it looks like. But when I'm not in the middle of a project and there's still shit all over my desk and you know, cups and Model, whatever the fuck and stuff.
You know, I feel like it's different, like trash is ones but like stuff, things items that don't need to be like, thrown away or like, washed and folded, but just like items that need to be moved. A lot of the times. It's very much not a system like it is absolutely not a system. It was placed in the in the closest horizontal surface. Yeah, ever. And then that's where it stays.
That's where it stays and It gets the point where the only way to do it. Well, not the only way, I'm sure but there's the rub would be to like clear everything off of everything and then put it back. Yeah. Which you can do you know like day of it. But it's overwhelming as fuck. And like and it's one of those things that you fucking have to finish. Yes. If you don't then all of your
shit is tall over the place. I mean, that's what happened in my office, is I started and then I just got overwhelmed and I stopped and like, literally do over the day. Day that I cried about the tablecloths in the closet. Yeah, that box of stuff is still in the corner. Really. Just yeah. There it looked like I got I took a break halfway through because I was like, it's too overwhelming and I need to take a break. And then, there it is laid for
three months. Yeah. And it's like I feel like if you didn't Like as an outside Observer listening to this podcast. It's a I feel like it's just so interesting because it's, like, people would listen to this and go like, what the fuck, just clean up the box, you know, just do it. And it's like, but it's hard, you know?
But it's like, it's like this, like, weird difficult type of hard that I have trouble even like a scribing a Motion to it's just this like completely overwhelming like massive tidal wave of like shame and guilt and embarrassment and overwhelmed and unsure D about like where to put the stuff for like the best way to do it and and it's just like it just grows and grows and grows and grows and grows until it like crests and crashes.
And then you're like sort of just like washed up on the side Beach of clutter and going like well I guess I'll start all over from scratch again like I have started over from scratch. Oh yeah. So many Times. Oh yeah, I mean that's like moving moving for example, like here, when I walking into my apartment when I had none of my shit in it. Yeah.
And there were the horizontal surfaces and it was like I remember being like okay yeah, we're at zero now, if we just and, you know, now it's covered in garbage. Like I did a D&D recording from my my apartment yesterday, and I had to, like, find an angle that I was, like, comfortable
yelling. And, I mean, that's about you, when you were once you're an adult and you like have your Shit and you need to, you know, you're responsible for keeping your shit clean or, you know, in whatever order works for you, you've already lived like a life of the shame and embarrassment that comes with that. Yeah. And a lot of that stuff, like I don't even remember all of the instances when a teacher or some authority figure looked at my backpack, I was usually my backpack.
I just got. I know, I know, I'm sorry, but Like backpack trauma and fucking desk jumping. Trauma. Locker shaming, I never had my desk literally dumped. I heard of it happening and it scared the shit out of me. I happen to me just once a
month, really? Yeah. I had a really mean teacher for a couple of years who would just like aggressively dump my shit constantly that and I remember really specifically there's this one time where she dumped it and only half the stuff came out because there's like stuff like jammed in the back and she got like pissed about it and she was like shaking the Around trying to get the rest of the stuff out and I was like you are a grown-ass woman bullying, an
eight-year-old, like what are you doing? When you think about it that way? I mean it's fucked out or how you think about it but that's particularly fertile what in your 40s and this is how you're choosing to spend your time. Cool. Right. Sizing a girl like I'm not going to teach you any skills for organization. I'm just going to make you crawl around on the floor and find your crayons. It's like the amount of other stuff that is dragging behind the act of doing.
I mean quote and I want to qualify but like a quote-unquote simple. Yeah cluttering task. Yeah the amount of baggage is staggering like it's and like I am not aware of it. I'm more aware of it now because it's like my job to think about it. Yeah but like holy shit like when I think about doing a little thing it's like am I gonna do? What am I going to? Am I going to complete doing
this? Yeah that's I think that's the scary part because it always gets worse before it gets better and if you quit, while it's worse than it's just worse now. Yeah. And that's terrifying and finishing things as We not an ADHD person strong suit. And it's also frankly rarely just the one thing like as you said it's foundation, so it's like taking all the boxes is not just take out the box, it's taking out the boxes realizing that, you know, forgot to take the trash out last week.
So the trash cans already full. So you have to figure out a place to tuck these boxes away, until you know you have a place to put them. So then you have to go but your fucking whatever is full of shit. So now you gotta like clear off that shelf but like, you know, To put the stuff that's on that shelf. So and then all of a sudden you're just fucked and then you end up throwing the goddamn boxes in the middle of the ground and going. I don't give a fuck anymore.
I'm gonna go cry in bed. Yep like it's never just one thing I mean that's that's how I would Advocate approaching it. Yeah. Give somebody was saying, I'm having trouble with clutter. I would say just pick the smallest possible thing that, you know, you can force yourself to do or an amount of time the small amount of time. I mean, I totally advocate for that. That is currently my way of dealing with it and it works decently well, but it's even Like I'm looking at like those
calyxes right now. Dear listener. So, you know, the Ikea calyxes, the little square shelfie boys who come to my streams, even know what I'm talking about. But I've to of those next to my desk and each little fuckin thing is a little Hollywood Squares clusterfuck of its own thing and like the solution be. All right, we'll just pick one square and just go go in with that's you know, that square p. Take care of that one square. Well in that square is 15
different categories of things. Has small lengths of PVC pipes and dowel rods and fucking, you know, anti hat. A Santa hat, right? Like, what's it's like stuff. You couldn't think of like a Santa hat. I'm a latke. I'm a latke. I'm looking at it right now. I guess you're actually just describing what's literally there? Oh, a bunch of novelty candies. Three packs of dishwashing. Gloves some straws. Some straws. Loofah. Oh wait, no, that's a Beholder.
That is a Beholder. I thought I was alone. Sign that says my name about a model ship about Finnish model ship. Yeah a box full of about a thousand little poppets some cleaning. That's what is fun. Let's just say more things vary in your office. So, already like, how do you begin to fucking figure out, where to put those things in Qatar or whatever? And even, if I were to just pick one then it's like, okay, there's literally no other surf, the only place to put it. Now is back where?
I just fucking put it from. So unless I'm going to do all of it, which I'm probably going up the blowing that out of proportion, but that's the fucking point. Yeah, it It's a mixture of real actual fucking struggles and all the baggage that comes with it as if you like Alison. Is gonna listen to this podcast be like God damn it. You don't bust. She would never say that.
She's very nice. Well because I also well, I just talked for a long time but I also feel like I know what works, what for me. It's just getting to that point, you know, like I know what I like things to be like, because in kitchens and stuff like that depression, like I didn't, they are like that and I fucking love it. But getting to that point from myself is really hard. See you I have this like weird. What's what's one more than a duality a try? A try ality that?
Be a plurality plurality? I don't know. I mean no a plurality means in terms of like electorates I don't know what plurality but Sue like look at because okay, so like here's the thing with me and one of the really sort of like interesting things that I've been like my journey. This year is I've been like really unpacking like my own neuro Divergence in like what I actually need versus like, What I keep telling myself, I'm like that kind of stuff.
And so I've realized that I have these two very different sides of myself. Were one is like this, like clutter monster where I want all of my stuff out and I want all my stuff to be able to be seen and whatever but then the other side of me the other side of me is like this, very precise organized, you know, type everything by type. You know all clear. Surfaces nothing.
No clutter. Everything is like, specifically lined up, but then Eric, but then the other problem, the other problem with that is that my aesthetic like the the like aesthetic that gives me like the brain scratchy's that makes me really. Happy is like Victorian maximalism and so like I want completely clean counters pause to Google. Victorian maximal is I will listen, I will link Dead-ass. I will link on my on this episode description, my Pinterest board.
So you all know what I'm talking about because I have like a very deep Pinterest board that I have had for many years and I will link it. So you know, also adjust while you're Googling stuff, Google Jeremy Irons Castle. Oh my god, did you see that technology? That is my aesthetic. As I thought of you immediately. I was like, this is it. This is where I want to live for like, but that's what I want. You know what I mean?
Jr. I want to live in Jeremy Irons Castle, but that's the thing and so it's like, Jeremy are, but to have that sort of like cozy comfy maximalist aesthetic, it requires the having of stuff and so might like As I have worked to like really understand like the broad scope of my owner divergency. One of the things that I'm realizing is like, the things that I like are in direct contrast to the things that I need, and that fucking weird. That's weird. It's weird to like,
contextualize that. And so, it's like, you know, like I said, like, I want completely bare counters in the kitchen, but if the stuff is an out that I'm not going to cook myself dinner because because then it's like a whole hassle to get stuff out, you know? Or like I want a bunch of stuff up on the walls but also I need all the books organized like in this like very specific way but I don't have that like I don't have that in like any space in my house.
I would say the only place where like, I actually have stuff organized the way that I like is immediately to your left in the bins, but I don't even really like the bins and how they're organized. They just serve a function. And but like that's the thing is like I don't like how my spaces feel because it's like that weird dichotomy of like there's too much clutter and it's too much but also I like that like
cozy. Bullshit all over the walls and so I just like never know how to like navigate that. Yeah, yeah. Listen, why she's like shaking her head? Be like you dumb idiot. And I think the Because I also had that side of me with like, making the fonts right and color coding, all that like and that's what will come out in kitchens. I was ferociously cleaning kitchens because everybody was that's just not dead. And more importantly, it would in.
Well, what I think at one, I think I think being in that environment at like, activated a part of my brain that like, did it. So I don't want to like remove credit for myself, which I'm about to kind of do well, I know I'm not but is That everything already had a place. It was just whether or not you were going to take the time to put it back. Yeah, that was the thing is it wasn't a decision? It was an action. Yeah, whereas with my stuff it is not an action.
It is a decision. Plus an action was many actions. Yeah, you know, getting my my room my office to a place that I would like requires a lot of action, but I can do action, you know? I've cleaned a lot of toilets in my life. You know, I can do things. I don't want to But it's the decisions that's the hard part. Yeah. That's when I start to really freak out, I also I posted to talk about this. That's so specifically was a thing and nobody saw it but I
like it a lot. But you know that coin pusher game at arcades. Yeah. Were you dropped as you drop the quarter down and there's like a little shelf and the Shelf pushes out and then comes back in and the idea is that you want to drop your quarter in such a way that when the Shelf comes back out, it pushes some of them off there's like a bunch of them about to spill off and just One more quarter in the right place will drop. Hopefully a bunch of them, you know.
It's the idea of the game, that's what every fucking surface in an IT each D person's life is like. And that's when I start to really like get anxiety attacks about it is, we're like my Rolley chair for example. Like if I know if I roll to a little Direction, I'm going to knock something over. Yeah. Like it makes me feel so claustrophobic. But yeah. Anyways, I think trying making those decisions, I think, is the hard part.
And so I think that, you know, sort of of everything in its place, and a place where everything kind of thing, or is it the other way around? I think putting everything in its place at least for me, and a lot of other ADHD, well, ADT cooks that I know do really. Well, once there is a place, yeah, once there is a place that it's fine because then it's just an action, you have to remember to put it back in the all that
kind of stuff. But once it has a place that's much easier and that's the part that well, I don't like, fucking any of it. But yeah. But I think that's the part deciding how it should be organized as very scary to me. It's also a really funny cuz you very casually mentioned fonts, I did. But like, when I tell you that like the font on the, you know, tag or like little Kicker or whatever that I put on the bin that says, like markers or whatever.
That is the place where I get hung up, like, it's not even the like, where do I put the markers? It's like, what should the sign that goes on the front of the fucking drawer? Look, like. And what if I choose a bad font? Like when I tell it like it like, it is a visceral paralyzing thing for me where it's like, I will sit there for hours and design like tags or You know, like whatever, that's not the right word. What is the word that I want? Label label, that's what I want.
But like I will suggest we need to get a label maker, I think about it once a month fucking hours and design like labels and then be like the fonts wrong. I can't I can't move forward with the project or like the vibe is off. I can't, you know what I mean? Yeah and it's like and it's like that small of a thing for me is like the maker break of the entire thing and that is so frustrating. Like it's so frustrating to be like I'm motivated to clean.
I am motivated to get this done but First. Should I use a serif or a San serif and like, but that's like how far it goes from me. And so like I just I just constantly feel like these like two different parts of my brain are just like fighting with each other for this.
Like one part of me wants this like, you know, austere white empty room, the where there's nothing and then the other part of me wants like, you know, a green velvet couch and, you know, like, Bullshit all over the walls and it's just like there's, there's got to be some kind of happy medium, but like I've just never really had a space that feels the way that I want to space because of my own issues with clutter and
admittedly. This is defeatist but also my own like lazy ass attitude because I just suck it organizing stuff. And so I just go I'll throw it in a box and then that box just nothing ever happens. Well I mean obviously I got I got a press e on that you just talked a lot of shit about yourself at the end there.
I think it's good to recognize like when you're, you know, being lazy, I've talked about laziness before like but I was like a year and a half ago so I guess my thoughts on laziness are not like commonplace anymore if they ever were but I think it's important to recognize when a when you're being lazy, not you won't but wouldn't one is analyzing the proverbial, you but I don't I don't see that. And in the way that you, you in your relationship with clutter at all, I don't, I think.
I mean if it is laziness than well no. I don't see that in you at all. I see wanting to get it. Right. Yeah. I see worrying that you're going to stop in the middle of it. Yeah. And And I meant, I might be projecting this one, but my favorite word that the Sisyphus Ian nature of it. Yeah, it's never finished. Yeah, it's always it's a constant struggle. Like, even if you got your whole house, perfect, you would still have to keep it that way. And it's much easier to keep it
that way. Once it is that way, whatever that way is, but you still have to keep it that way, and it's frustrating. Well, there's always something. Was that part to this week? Because we're just gonna write yes, part two of this. Week we're going to talk about starting and finishing projects. Oh boy! I'm just going to tie these two episodes right together and probably Minecraft, and probably Minecraft. So hey everybody. Thank you so much for listening
to this week's episode note. Today's episode of infant Quest. I forgot that we do to do you to, um, just a reminder before we go, we have a patreon. It's patreon.com slash infinite Quest. If you like the work that we do, we would sure appreciate it. If you may be considered joining our patreon, even a dollar a week, immensely helps us out. We do this because we love it but also it's what pays our
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And if you want to consider leaving us a review, we certainly wouldn't Be mad last order of housekeeping business this week, I'm going to be in Dallas Texas, with my good friend, Danny Donovan, and my new friend, Jessica McCabe at the Chad, ADD ADHD conference. I'm going to be sitting on a panel about social media and ADHD. So I'm pretty excited about that to me. And that's all I can think of if you want to page four and then you can even a song, we're going to do it.
Around song on Thursday, there will be a patreon song on Thursdays episode. So if you have subscribers a patreon and have not yet gotten a patreon song or if you're like, holy shit, I get my name and a fucking song. Then you have you can fucking sign up for the patreon and get your name in a song. So so I, you know, I just got so mad at you because it means, I have to walk away and get my ukulele and I'm cold. Well, I have a guitar here. We can use a guitar. Okay, okay.
Okay, fine. All right, buddy, we'll see you on Thursday. Thank you so much for being here. Let's do the thing. I To do. Hey, get the thing existed. We target the thing, and it's we've literally done it since like, I know, right? A second episode. Ready before we leave? Just a quick reminder, remember to eat a snack? Remember to drink some water? Remember to take your meds. Remember to be kind to yourself,
remember to be kind to others. And remember that we love you from all of us at infinite Quest will see you on Thursday. Goodbye transition. To do. Hey, get the thing existed. We target the thing, and it's we've literally done it since like, I know, right? A second episode. Ready before we leave? Just a quick reminder, remember to eat a snack? Remember to drink some water? Remember to take your meds. Remember to be kind to yourself, remember to be kind to others.
And remember that we love you from all of us at infinite Quest will see you on Thursday. Goodbye transition.