Hello everybody. This is an episode of that podcast that you listen to. We just wanted to do a quick trigger warning at the beginning that in this second half of this episode. So after the a drake, we will be talking about self-harm and we, you know, freely and openly. So if you don't want to hear that, then listen up to the ad break, listen to the ad because it's amazing and then we'll see you next week. But if not, then we'll see you
in the state having a drink. It's yeah, thanks for being. In here everybody. Yeah, I don't have an exact time stamp yet because we haven't added added the podcast. Yes, but it's about, it's about 16 minutes in but yeah, you'll hear, you'll hear it in the after the outbreak. Anyways, now, to the episode transition. Oh yeah. Okay. T.i., how's it going? Not so good. That's fine. I'm sorry about your foot. It's okay. Hi, everybody.
Welcome back to well, okay, I'll do it in a different order, but so sorry we didn't do an episode on Tuesday, but we were camping for ares. First day, camp in time. Hey, and then I sprained my ankle quite quite quite badly that was kind of in a different order because it was like we we got out of the car and then I sprained my ankle and then at least. Okay. And then we went and then we were sorry. You did wasn't even unloaded by the time I managed to sprained
my ankle. So that was like fun. I was, I mean, I'm not glad you sprained your ankle like, I'm really, I'm sorry. You did obviously, am I glad you sprained your ankle but it was easier for you to stay like recumbent and not, yeah, do a bunch of stuff while you're there because you like couldn't move around. So great. Which again I'm not glad you
strange right now. It's like it was like that kind of like for stressed you know like things like I wasn't like the hammock was I was That was that was good times. That was good times. Oh man, I set it up in the back. By the way, I went to the hammock earlier today. There's birds going, tweedily-dee, eat and stuff, Audrey's all that mad about it. Tweedily Dee other like tweedily-dee off. Fuck this fucking guy except a hammock. Now, we gotta see him perform
for him like him. Tweedily dee deep, fuck. Oh, that's what they said. Remember, gentlemen spontaneous. I siloed, it's me a good. Welcome back to you. Any question finish? Give me a, give me an a Nicole. Barbershop quartet. Okay yeah it was. God was God said I was going for but I've been out of music school for like 10 years so I forgot to do everything. That's okay. So I'm sorry you in a lot of pain and yeah I was gonna downplay it but no, I really heard but that's what I wanted
to talk about today. Haha. Seamless transition way. In addition, we haven't done that in so long, so long. Well, I guess we can't now because we do mid-roll ads. We used to not do minerals. Now, we do mid-roll ads big way now. See, transition is better. Yes, transitions better. But anyway, yeah. So I have been thinking a lot about ADHD and pain lately because 18 paint is really interesting topic. That I actually know a lot
about. For those of you who don't know, aside from having a dumb sprained, ankle. I also live with a condition called dystonia, which means that That is a very expensive word for saying, sometimes I twitch that's basically what happens pretty much but because of that I deal with a lot of chronic pain and so when I first got my ADHD diagnosis, I was I was really interested to find out that a lot of people with ADHD live with chronic pain for
various reasons. It's not like dystonia is actually kind of a rare one but a lot of people with ADHD have Eller ello Stan, lers syndrome EDS I said that very wrong but you're trying all cut out. That's whistling, we'll do a second one. I'm gonna cut out the first a lot of people with ADHD. Also have EDS, which, you can look up the pronunciation of on Google fuck you.
Eric no. Like and so, like a lot of people with ADHD deal with like joint issues and like over flexibility and that kind of thing. And also pain becomes really interesting. When we talk about hyper fixation, ha ha surprise is going to be an educational episode. Y'all father's going to be another bullshit one but here we go with the wisdom education. Who knows who?
So because pain like when the human body experiences pain, there's a lot of different things that happen but one of them is that it makes you more distractible and it makes you more irritable and it makes you more sort of like focused on just that experience. So you can imagine when you have ADHD and you're also dealing with chronic pain and then all of a sudden You say you sprained your ankle or something, it becomes very, very hard to function.
A lot of people they need HT will sit there and they will judge themselves and they'll say, oh well, I hurt my back like why can't I write an email by just punch the microphone. I just I punch my microphone at exactly the same time. You did. That was wild. That's cool. That was weird. This is because of where we're just so bonded. We are wholesome. But yeah. So like a lot of people that he/she will be like, oh, I have a Toothache or I have a backache.
Why can't I do anything? And it's like, well, spoilers your executive dysfunction absolutely collapses. When you're in pain and then you have ADHD. And so, then you start hyper fixating on, like the pain or like what it could be or whatever. And it becomes this really interesting vicious cycle where we can sort of scientifically show that people with ADHD experience, pain differently. Hmm. Yeah, what are do you You feel that since getting ready?
HD diagnosis. You've have a different relationship with your chronic pain. Then, I do want to know one of the big things for me was learning that people with ADHD tend to have a higher pain tolerance across the board. And it is because again of that sort of distractibility element where if you're in pain, but then you get distracted and you're doing your emails or you're doing your chores or like whatever.
You can tend to not think about it like your brain will sort of like dismiss it and so a lot of people with ADHD not everybody. So Of them actually have a lot lower pain, tolerance for the same reason, the many, many people with ADHD have a higher pain tolerance, and it's because of that sort of like cyclical attention of all. I'm not thinking about it.
But the thing that sucks about that is that say you have a sprained ankle and you're supposed to stay off of it, but you're, you know, watching your TV show, you realize, you have to go get a snack or whatever. You are likely to forget about that injury and then you step on it and then you make it worse and then you're in more. And so then it becomes like another one of those cycles and so is really really interesting how that ADHD brain sort of like interprets and deals with pain.
Yeah, I was fun. My relationship with pain in that in that sort of way is sort of like it's either. You know, when like in the old Looney Tunes, cartoons like a character would run off a cliff, but they didn't notice that they ran off a cliff, so they just kept running. And when they look down, yeah, they'll go. Oh, and then they fall. Yeah.
I feel like it's either that, or I just forget that I'm in pain, like four hours, because I'm whatever I might, We're focusing on Minecraft or something like that. Yeah. And then I'll just remember and go. Oh, that's right. Fuck aw. Jesus. God damn it. Well, that's what happens with little kids to, especially, like little kids with ADHD with injured all the time, like, have like random Cuts, random bruises, random, like through thing.
That was his exact same thing. Is that, you know, they fall down on the playground, they go. Oh, oh, that hurt but then they go off and play with her friends and then they look down in there like bleeding profusely. And it's like because like our brain, just don't interpret those pain signals the same way. It's not like Immediate focus is absolutely.
Just that one and then the other one for me at least is I'll either that we're all like totally get distracted by their stuff and I just want remember that I'm in pain which is great in the moment but also like not the point of pain. It's supposed to hurt so that you do some little bit. Yeah unless it's bullshit ass fucking bullshit.
Chronic pain which case is just being a dick but or like, I will get keep going to distracted by the paint like the fact that I can't Cause like, you know, if you're, you know, obviously the point of pain is for your body to Signal like hey, something's wrong down here and I'm gonna make it unpleasant until you do something about it. But now unlike modern day it's like, okay, I get that. My fucking leg is hurt. I am aware, I'll stay off of it. You can stop fucking hurting.
Now, that's just not our bodies work. I have a really hard time like convincing myself of that part where it's like. Okay, my leg is hurt, it's going to hurt. On with it now. We're all like try to go about my normal life but the pain key is just because the pain isn't something that I can compartmentalize. It's it's the same as all the other random shit that's going on. That I have trouble sorting through because of executive dysfunction. It's like, all right, I've got
dishes and it's hot in here. And why does it smell like toast and my foot hurts? And I can't be like, okay, but dishes is the thing that's important. So like no matter what I'm doing, the pain will always just sort of sneak back in, or I completely fucking forget about it. It's never one of the other or it's never both. Yeah. Now what and it also there's I'm so interested in pain and ADHD.
I'm sorry. This is like one of my weird Niche topics but there's also the time perception thing people with ADHD scientifically, they have tested it perceive time differently and so exactly what you were saying. Where it's like if you hurt your ankle, it's very easy to be like, well, I have felt like this forever and I will continue to feel like this for forever. When in reality it's like no you sprain your ankle. You're going to feel like this
for like a week. So there can be that element of like the timeline of pain can feel much longer than it actually is or it can be a lot shorter than it is and then you start like you like yeah, I sprained my ankle like last week I'm fine and it's like, no you sprained her ankle, two days ago, you really need to keep saying off of it and so that becomes part of the conversation as well. It's, there's so much to it. Yeah.
Who's I mean, it is amazing how whenever I think about, you know, so you can put my foot on, you know, you may put your foot down. Oh, sorry, this was like fucking a call. I'm sorry sweets. It's called. Damn it. Aged man. But whenever I've always has anyone ever, I like, explorers hapag either in my brain or it's like the research of ADHD and blank. Yeah. It always comes back to time our relationship to time. Like so like for example, I broke my collarbone Did you really 14 years ago?
I didn't know that. Yeah, you can actually see it. There's a little. Oh, you can tell you can feel it more than you can see it now. But actually fun fact. Broke my collarbone and I was young, I was like 13 or 14 and in my like privileged ass white kids life. I was always like, you can be anything you want, like all that stuff? What you know, that's true.
Like I'm not knocking that. Like, yes, if you are a child, listen to this, you can be whatever you want, fucking go for it kid, but when I broke my collarbone, it's you can see it. It like I'm not symmetrical anymore. My one shoulder sticks out like a little bit further than the other one. Like you get, if you measure it, you can see it, but you can't just say it. But anyways, I remember the doctor joked. When I was, like in the doctor place, he joked that I could
never be a model. Because doctor was wrong. Have you seen yourself? Well, thanks pops. But those are because sitting at home, Eric is very attractive. Thanks. Oh yeah. Do you guys you know models don't just have to like look like models but you know they get close made for them and stuff and if one shoulder is a different length, it just made creates all sorts of problems in the modeling industry.
Apparently so anyways, that was the first time I was ever told in my life that I straight-up could not be something like that is off the table for you. Who knows if he was like right or not but like, you know, that was a weird moment where I was like, oh shit, like I'm aging I'm not immortal. Jesus Christ. I mean, I was 13 or whatever, but anyways, I broke my collarbone and I still to this day will be like doing something and go be careful on your collarbone. You know.
Like you just broke your collarbone but not like an idle thought of like, you know, haha silly me. I got into the habit of being cautious about my collarbone because I broke it. Like I'll sink it for like a minute like you know, Bobby how I can't really do that because my colleague, huh, like dude, that was so long ago, like you've jumped off of things since then, like it is fine.
But It is amazing, how it always comes back down to time because everything is intrinsically related to time because it had time is what is necessary for anything to occur and so if your relationship to time is fucking weird, then your relationship to everything is fucking weird, including pain?
Yeah, as I think, like, one of the things that I hear a lot from, well I'm going to say myself first, because I hear it a lot for myself, but also just from like a lot of people with ADHD is the The the sort of like double-edged sword of like being in pain but then you're like you're only really like perceiving that pain part of the time.
And so then the Imposter syndrome and the rejection sensitivity comes in and you're like, oh well I must be faking because I'm not thinking about my ankle 100% of the time like oh I must be making it up or over exaggerating I must be being overdramatic which is something that a lot of
neurodivergent people here. Anyway, a lot of neurodivergent people hear about things like sensory issues that they're just being Overly sensitive or they're being overdramatic or they're exaggerating or whatever. And so for a lot of people with ADHD there is also a note to say, I don't want to say trauma because I won't want to give that word. It like it's appropriate weight.
But there is a lived experience to experiencing things like pain where a lot of times we will push through and we will we will push ourselves harder than we. Should because of that sort of internalized, they're just going to think I'm exaggerating or they're just going to think. I'm making it up especially for the people with ADHD who have a lower pain tolerance, you know? Hmm. I always liked as a kid.
I got injured a lot. Like just didn't, you know, ranging from small to big but like I joked when we were camping in you wear your foot that like I'm just surprised. It wasn't me because it was it was like a joke through my in my family that like, whenever we went on vacation, Eric is going to the It's sometimes it was like because I did a dumb thing, sometimes it was like it turns out I'm allergic to a certain type of tide or whatever that they used in a hotel or
whatever. But as I was always like just getting vaguely injured. Also in a DHA thing also an ADHD thing, very much so. And so part of I think part of me, I mean I'm way better about it now because I'm like an adult and Evan you know working on it for a decade Plus or whatever. But when I was a kid whenever I was hurt, it was usually my fault. I'm sorry. Level it was usually I wasn't getting enough dopamine or stimulus out of a given situation that I was in.
And you know what would really bump up the stimulus but doing
stick in my eye. Well sometimes I mean I suppose we'll get to that in the second half of the episode but like yeah, sometimes it was literally deliberately inflicting pain on myself such that I would just have some more stuff going on and wouldn't be bored, but a lot of it was like just doing an unadorned ill-advised Like I wonder if I could drop in off of that thing with my skateboard even though I've never tried once and it's really tall but there are people watching and it
would make them laugh and then I would like it was just yeah I mean I was a Class Clown of in ways which I used to think was like a negative term. It's like no, you just like making people laugh but it's a lot of it was self-inflicted. So I there was a sense of guilt around it where like if I was hurt you know sure somebody all you hurt your foot or whatever it's like yeah but because I was being an idiot you know it wasn't because like some I was I wasn't unfortunate like I did a
stupid fucking thing. And so now I still feel that whenever I get like injured or hurt my hand or hurt, my butter, my whenever I have to like look through the situation and go like was that because I was being Reckless, you know, which spoiler you can paint is still paying even. If it's quote, unquote, your false, you know.
But I still noticed that like because of my ADHD as a kid and how often I would get, you know not like huge crazy bone breaking injuries but you know I would land on my shoulder weird or I would scrape. The shit out of my whatever, you know? Just because of the frequency of that eye, I definitely feel the urge to hide pain more because it's like, was probably my fault. Even if it wasn't, that's just my initial Instinct. It was probably my fault. That's a really interesting
Insight transition a panicked. I'm sorry. Okay. Now seems like as good a time as any to talk about our new sponsor even geek therapeutic.
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Okay, here we go. Let's go. Do, do do, do do. Wow, that was a really good advertisement. That was what a gold-plated sponsorship. We have whiskey therapeutic sashka Therapeutics. Oh, I love it so much, so cool. I that add it, sounded crisper and bouncier than last week. Did it? Maybe that's all in my head. It didn't I didn't do anything yet. It's the same at a crisp hard transition. So we're about to start talking about.
I did not It says it's a really good transition but when we there was a trigger warning at the beginning of the episode but just another reminder when we're talking about pain sometimes you make yourself in pain on purpose and we call that self-harm. So we're probably going to talk about that a little bit and if that's not something I want to hear about, don't listen to the real listening. Yeah up here. Stop here. Goodbye. Anyways, you love you remember to you snag.
Remember drinks water? Remember to take a reservoir. We kind of stuff. Be kind of others. The Tweek, I don't want to say I feel bad. I feel like they're they're you know, we appreciate you being here. Yeah. Okay. We will pause for a second. Okay. Now we're going to start. Yeah. So okay, so pain, so pain. Well yeah. I mean sometimes pain happens to us track down sometimes pain happens. Well, it still happens to you but it's a pain.
Can be a choice. Yeah, I think it can be an unhealthy choice, but it also, It says the king had to cater. It can be a healthy choice. And so there's line that line is very into that line is episode and I don't have 12 minutes to unpack them. But yeah I mean I there's no way I mean outside of just ADHD there's no way for you and me you Katie and me Eric to talk about pain without addressing the fact that a lot of the times that I've been in excruciating
pain, I've been deliberate. I did it on purpose. I wanted to be an excruciating pain so I did it has been studied and which I also think is really interesting, but the rates of self-harm in people with ADHD especially adolescent girls with ADHD are much much higher than the general population. It is it is a striking percentage and it is and sort of like looking at those studies and looking at some of like the research that's been done. It's a dopamine thing. It is a serotonin thing.
It is a wanting an immediate situation to deal with rather than sort of like languishing in that like ADHD paralysis Bailey.
Okay bails. I'll cut it at paralysis from there and so I think it's a really uncomfortable topic but I think it's one that is really important to be aware of if you have ADHD or you you know you love and care for somebody with ADHD because like it's a it's a real issue that affects a lot of people with ADHD and it's one that we don't talk about a lot because it can be really sort of like I don't to say embarrassing but it can be difficult to talk about and frame in a way that
doesn't seem like it's being encouraged. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah, I mean for the record we are not. We are not, I'm not. Yes, please do not please, do not sell Farm outside of a very controlled Kink environment which again, is just a different episode entirely. If it happens, is that sounds confusing. But if, you know, you know,
yeah, I mean, I it's this phrase gets tossed around a lot. but I got the there it you know for good reason, I'm going to use it here but I think it's important to try to break this thing about around self-harm because A lot more people than you think do it a lot more people than you think do it. And a lot of times, it's what's the word? It's sustained its perpetuated by the fact that it's secret.
I think a lot of times unhealthy secret sort of fortify themselves because their secrets and everyone. I my relationship to self-harm sort of started. My self harming was very I would say maybe 10 to 15 percent of the time and that was later in life.
Like in my 20s, maybe ten forty to fifty percent of the time was actually out of like depression and anger towards myself and wanting to hurt myself because I was angry at myself or thought I deserved it or something like that, most of the time it was out of boredom. It was that it was just out of boredom. There wasn't anything going on and you know, it would be interesting if I was bleeding badly from the laki, you know? Like that's, you know, one It it helped. How is it?
I don't know, I didn't help that's not the word, but in a way it was refreshing to have something. So, immediate that had such an immediate solution because if you're like finances are not in order which might never are like the way to solve that problem is a lot of incremental, little things virtually, none of which have any dopamine in them.
But if you're like injured and now, you're you've wrapped the thing and you've treated the whatever, like, Like that's a very immediate solution to a very immediate problem that has definitive benefits. Like, I'm bleeding and I would like to not be bleeding anymore or I'm burned and I don't want to get in fact, like, it's a very immediate thing. Like suddenly task prioritization, is not something that you struggle with anymore, because duh, you that's the
thing you have to do right now. So you a lot of my self harm is based on that. And the reason I didn't want to bring it up because I didn't want to explain that to people. I didn't, you know, if I was 15 and Get taken to the counselor's office because they find a whatever on my body. It was very understandably, I'm glad they handled it very well. But they assumed it was because I was going through depression or going through her, which I was, but that's not where the
self harm came from. And it was really hard to explain to like therapists and stuff. Like, no, I don't do it because I am angry at myself. I think I deserve it. Although, later that what happened. It's just because I was fucking bored. Like I was bored and I wanted something to do and something interesting. I'm stimulating something, you know, that would really Peak the amount of stuff going on in my brain at any given time. And it took a long time to sort of get people who understood
that. And I didn't realize that that was probably due to my ADHD was just, I was dopamine start and I needed something to be going. I needed a release of chemicals in my brain. Well, that's, that's literally what I was about to say, is, like, one of the challenges with self-harm is that it can become addictive. And Actually, to the ADHD brain because I'm two years clean, by the way, just over Harrison's. Thanks, really proud of you.
And I just, I didn't mean I wasn't gonna like it, but I was just thinking, I was like, holy shit. It's been over two years now like that's pretty cool for you. Cheers, how long have, you know, me too? But yeah, like self-harm can become an addictive thing because of the chemicals that are released when your body is Is in pain, right? So you get like the dopamine, you get the, the oxytocin out, you get the, you get the adrenaline, like all of that kind of stuff.
But also Eric, what is something else that we know about ADHD brains? They tend to be very skewed towards addictive behaviors. Yes, very much. So 50% of people with ADHD will experience some sort of addiction and problems in their life. Yes. And so again general population it's such Such a bigger problem than just like the self-harm itself. It becomes The Addictive Behavior becomes, the dopamine seeking.
It becomes like the solution to that boredom, and then it becomes a self-perpetuating cycle. So rough 12, because you need a thing to do it. We really don't do this. Yeah, and I mean, just speaking, I think very candidly maybe for the first time about this, I don't speak for you but I definitely have experience with
self-harm. And yes, yes very much certainly do a. So and so we both that was like one of the things that I remember talking about really early on when I met you was that kind of like experience of like yeah there's a thing that you know, used to happen. Yeah. Well it's it is one of those things you know, when you're a I don't want to say like an addict because the, you know, but when you when you indulge in compulsive Or frequently and start to lose control of it.
Holy shit talking to somebody who gets it. Who knows is just a best fucking thing in the world. Oh my God. Like, when I started meeting people who had a history of self-harm but just for the novelty of it, just because they thought the scars looked cool or because they were curious what it would feel like, or whatever. And not have it. Be a depression thing was So refreshing to me, because it was like, oh, I'm what, I'm not
alone, but also, this isn't. Well, no, well, I'm not alone like because in in movies and TV and all the stuff whenever somebody self-harming. It's because it's because of depression, or something horrible happened. And that's very real. And the thing too, but I always felt like, my self harm was like fake. Self-harm. Like it was, you know, it wasn't like the cool kids self-harm because of something that happened or whatever. It was just bored. Self harm and like meeting other people.
That did that I think was like, sort of the path to me realizing that I didn't have to do that, you know, because I figure out, you know, add more data points. I talked to them about why they did in there. Like, you know, they would say very similar things to me are like, oh well, you know, it's just something to do and it's you know, interesting and whatever and it's like well there are other things to do
that are also interesting. You know, I mean it's you know we talked earlier about like breaking the stigma and I think like it's a really uncomfortable.
Inaudible conversation to talk about like are topics to talk about, you know, like I don't really like discussing my history with it because one, I don't want to be seen as encouraging it. I don't want to be seen as like advocating for it, but I keep like talking about the studies but it's something that I've really looked into and like looking at the studies looking at the research been done. It is a really common experience for people with ADHD and then
you sort of get into that. That like the overlap of ADHD and autism, where a lot of people also struggle with things like interception and proprioceptive. And so sometimes whether the paint, like, whether it be self-harm or whether it just be like, oh, I don't know where my hands are in space because I struggle with spatial awareness, it can be really easy too. Like injure yourself and it can be really easy to experience like pain in that way as well.
And so yeah it's a really it's like a it's a messy or topic that I think You like, you know, you sort of pull the thread of like how I sprained my ankle and then you start thinking about like this and that the other thing and then when it gets really big really quickly it doesn't mean something. We also have been brought up here as impulse control. Oh yeah, where the the the path between thinking about doing something and doing something is a much shorter path.
If you have ADHD the significantly shorter path and what's the what's the task or no correlation? Oh task utilization? Yeah, exactly. Behavior like holding Thing that cuts stuff like yeah, what can I cut that? Surround me, you know. Yeah, and also well this might be a bit but also cortical inhibition, where just when your brain thinks body do this normally like a neurotypical person's nervous system will go. Are you sure about it? I don't know, you're nervous.
And we'll try to stop is always trying to stop you from doing everything that you do. And if you really want to do it enough, your brain will override that and you'll end up making a sandwich or moving your Armand, the way that you were going to move it or whatever person with ADHD is nervous, system doesn't do that as well. So when we think I'm going to move my arm, there's a lot of less checks and balances before we actually do and we knock shit over all time.
I want you to know that in this moment. Every fiber of my being wanted me to just reach over and smack you in the face. I thought that too. I was like, that's, it was something tomorrow. Absolutely. Just talking over for the bit rate that I didn't because I love you. Cortical and ambition achieved. Yeah. But yeah, I mean I had a I had a I had a fucking to that to that
today. Yeah I mean II like to talk about it more but I don't, I I genuinely get nervous that I'm Making it more likely that anybody listening to this or watching a video that I make about it. I'm making it more likely. That old delegation self-harm. Behaviour. Don't Don't ya just don't do
that. You know, there are other things to do, there's anything and frankly like a lot of the strategies that are used in terms of like breaking the self-harming cycle are things that are actually really useful as well for like neurodivergent brains. Like I know a lot of people have heard this one but like the Ice Cube thing where you like holding ice cube really tight but that's that's like really that's like really useful for a lot of like neurodivergent people.
It's really grounding it's Like sensory oriented like that kind of stuff. As you, there's other the rubber band snap thing to that one. I don't hear advocated for as much by like professionals dice que o. The thing about the ice, I feel like we should but something you might hear a therapist or mental health professional recommend to somebody transom. Self-harm is to just put an ice cube in their hand and just hold it there.
Yeah because one it doesn't like hurt immediately if you hold it for a while, it kind of starts to hurt but it doesn't do tissue damage and it's can sort of replace that part of your You know, the thing that you eat it, can, it can replace it in the moment. It can help you get past an urge. But something that I think is probably not the thing to bring up at the very end of the
podcast. That's okay, but I know some of y'all are thinking it because I'm thinking it and I thought it for a long time is well, what's the difference between like self-harming and tattooing and it's my fucking body and I'm only hurting myself and I consent so why can't I? Well fact the matter is, you can it's not illegal to you can The way that. And so for years and it's from when I first started, self-harming at like 12 to know me. Early 20s. Probably the sentiment for me was that.
It's like it's my fucking body. I consent to it. I'm not hurting anybody else. You know, even if it's unsafe. Like I know it's unsafe and I'm concerned you. So fuck you who are you to tell me? Not to which. Okay but the way the thing that I eventually landed on was is it Anna? Expression of respect and love for your body, or is it, or is it an expression of disregard or contempt for your body?
So thanks so for me, you know, even when I was self-harming just out of boredom, it certainly wasn't showing respect to my body. It wasn't out of degradation. I wasn't actively trying to tell my body to go fuck itself but it was certainly wasn't a respectful thing to do to my body. I wasn't respecting it, you know, whereas something like a tattoo, you're decorating your buddy or expressing that you love. Body or have of relate, you know, your decorated decorating.
Something is inherently a sign of respect for it. Or if you're into like a king seen in, there's some pain involved in that like you're having respect for your partner's body and your own body. And you're engaging in a loving consensual essential, of course, consensual celebratory thing, yeah? Because ultimately the harm in, self-harm one can be purely
physical, it can be dangerous. If you're using tools that aren't sterile, you know, like it can be literally, physically, dangerous, so, First and foremost, obviously that but let's say like, well I'm using super sterilized stuff and I'm being very safe. In fact, let's just say you're a fucking trained surgeons like you know the body's inside like you are very aware of how you could physically hurt yourself without actually doing / serious permanent damage.
Go off Hannibal Lecter, he wasn't a surgeon. Well you probably could have been a surgeon if he's one of those guys, he's like secretly a surgeon, you know, whatever. But So let's say all that is the case. So this is zero chance of of unanticipated permanent physical damage or or impermanent physical damage.
So let's just say that when you consistently disrespect your body in a self-harm, each I provide or at worst, you know, deliberately denigrate your body, it just slowly chips away at how much you value your own safety and how much you value
yourself. Ultimately doesn't feel like At the time at the time, you're just like, I'm bored on a Saturday and I mean, for me, one time I literally just needed paint for a model that I was doing, but it was like, 2:00 in the morning and I was like, I just needed to be a different color. Sorry.
But that is a true story, you know, at the time you're not, like, I'm not angry at my body, not just, but over time, you start to associate your body, as being something that's Expendable as being something that, you know, you could take or leave it being something that's worthy of disrespect. So that when other people do it, you go, well, I fuckin do it too, you know, sure. And that's I think the real bad part of self of long-term. Self-harm is that it's slowly
erodes. Your, the respect you have your body and irosian that isn't present. When you talk about things like tattoos or even like deliberate scarring like you know brands or whatever it was a trendy singer, whatever scarification, exactly like that's like a celebration. That's that's a sign of respect for your body which is again, not to say that I completely condone anybody listening this to self-harm as long. Long as it's respectful to their body. Like I don't want to say that.
But anyways, so that's sort of how I got around the fact that like, it's my body. Fuck you. Who are you to tell me what to do with it? It's like, well, you're right. They can't tell you what to do with it. But, you know, also, you don't want to just slowly degrade your own respect for your physical form as yeah, it's the only one you got bud. Every single said, thanks, I hope so, I don't know.
Well, thanks for listening to this episode that started up and about so far we were starting to do this episode in cases. Like yeah, I'd love to talk about like pain because I'm in pain all the stuffs like yeah. And right before we started recording a little dingy went off in my head and I was like, wait a minute. If we're talking about pain, there is zero fucking chance though. We're not gonna bring up self-harm at some point and so we're like fuck it. Let's just do the second half of
the episode. I feel like I talked a lot through that but that's okay. I have more experience with self-harm that I usually talk about. Oh look, I am grateful for you sharing. I'm sure our listeners are two. Thanks, I hope so couple of announcements, but one up for one last thing. Unless thing I'm just because this is really quite an incredible thing to have in your back pocket.
If you are experiencing self harm, or if you are having problems of self-harm and you're showing you feel like you can't control. It is really scary and I'm really sorry but try to picture yourself as a child as like a five-year-old and imagine hurting that five-year-old in the way that you're about to hurt yourself. Would you ever do that? Hopefully the answer is now but that is stopped me a good many number of times.
Although one time, Eric asked me what he thought, what I thought five, real Katie would think of my dog, and I still cry about that every time I think about it. I just want to throw that into the pile. It's really useful for a lot of things, really just fun. It really is, if you're ever, you know, like, would you would you, you know, if you're able to get in the car drunk or something? Like, if your five-year-old self was in the back seat, would you fucking put your yourself in
that situation? Like no, you wouldn't you? That's still you. Like you're doing the same thing but it's still you you're just older now. Anyways yeah there's and I also just want to say like there, you're really not alone. That was something that I really struggled with two, because I was the same way in my periods
of self-harm. I felt very isolated, I felt very embarrassed, I felt very ashamed and so I speak for both of us. When I just want to let you know that you're not alone, if that's something that you're struggling with and you're not a bad person if you're struggling with it. We will link some resources and stuff in the show.
Notes that may or may not be helpful to you, but we just want to encourage you, like we do always to treat yourself kindly because you are worthy of love and you are worthy of care. And you are worried worthy of respect and don't keep it secret. Talk to somebody about somebody who's never be your parents, although pure but just talk to somebody about it Secrets fortify.
Yeah. Now I'm going to very awkwardly transition to the announced and like super heavy and it also, but Ann's also just a few reminders, one, Eric and I are going to be appearing in two weeks at the convergence at Evermore Park in Utah. If you want to come and play some D and D, if you want to come hang out at Evermore Park. If you want to see Eric build a trebuchet, all those things are
happening. Similarly in May, We Eric and I have been offered the opportunity to partner with a fantastic ADHD organization that is doing a retreat in a Mexico. And several spots have opened up for that they are we can offer them at a discounted price to you. So if you are not doing anything at the end of May, or you would like more information, email us a skit.
Infinite Quest podcast.com there's really a lot of info and I don't know, like spend the next like 10 minutes explaining the whole thing but there are a few seats available and we'd love to see them filled by folks from infinite Quest Nation. So if you're interested again TM TM TM, feel free to reach out to us at every was podcast. No, just kidding asked at infinite cost. Podcast.com also, do you like boats? Do you like really big boats?
I do like boats here because you know what's going to happen? What is we're going to be on one. The Titanic I want to be on the Titanic, although I did just watch a video on the old tactic. I talk talk, I talk of the people who restored, the salvaged whistles so they like brought him up from the ocean and they're sort of and then restore them to make them go off so you can hear it.
Yeah. And it was spooky they're like wow like they were like they kept talking about like it was just a job to us, you know, we wanted to wear restorers, but right before we like tested them all together for the first time we were like holy shit. Nobody has heard this. That's That's wild in nobody love live as heard these both these well actually no there are still two attendings around. Maybe 100 know, I think 111 now I don't write checks or survivors anymore. I believe Rose was the last
question. The last of them died trying to get the fucking necklace. But yeah that was funny. I was that was pretty good. The last ones I try to get the necklace bios. Okay. You bunch of like octogenarians just like scuba gear and up like all right all right we're good who's gotten through? Again, goddamn it Rose, goddamn it Rose sitting on the dead guys. Passing out sketch of.
All time was announced catch his weary like she got a loo, look at the end and then I think it's like Kenan Thompson comes out. He's like, we have a dive team. We're just going to go get, you didn't have to do that. Like this. We already went down there like this whole thing was, like, this is we've already been down there. We're just gonna go get it. Like now, you just made a bunch of extra work. Good job, Rose like, it was
really funny. No, be really mean if she just claimed to have misplaced it. Yeah, sorry, I lost it. I lost it in the last five minutes. I had email us. Actually know hashtag. I'm going to make a new podcast hashtag. Oh, yeah, if you're still listening and if you are thanks.
Hi. Please tag, infoquest podcast and use the hashtag I to owned the Heart of the Ocean because if you were like me, when you were in junior high and you watch Titanic, and then he went to Claire's and you bought the, the duplicate Heart of the Ocean, and you thought you were the hottest fucking It Eric, I really like how you have your phone on during our podcast recording, everybody from me. Now, I am going to be running three games across three different nights, none of them are D&D.
We're going to be running, I think for the queen microscope and I want to say quiet year, I Haven't really decided yet but it's going to be great. No, prior experience is necessary, the group of DMS and people who are coming out as just it is it is a veritable who's who in the TT RPG space. So if you like to come hang out with some very cool people on a boat, you can do that to really big bone, I will also be there.
I'm not doing anything in any official capacity because they were like, hey do you want to be at the table? And I was like, yeah but they're like, okay. But it's going to take up the spot from somebody who could also be at the table and I was like so Eric is gonna hit the buffet. So I'm going to be just eating and probably crafting out of various things that I can find all over the ship and trying to convince them to let me see like, the galley and stuff. I've had that.
Well, I'm pretty good at getting places to get really freaky on getting to see kitchens that you're not supposed to say. I literally can't even say which kitchens I've seen, because the people who showed me were like, please, seriously. Don't tell anybody we showed you this, because we're in trouble, because secret kitchen excess. So God damn it phone Rick. Okay, let's see. This. We're at like 35 minutes. That's well hey everybody, thank
you all so much for listening. We will be back next week. Maybe with some more Senoia Springs. Whole, I'm excited for it. I'm nervous and excited. We need a table in our new Booth. That's what do we need? Oh, that's real you all we could do is have like a board. Spend the rest of the fucking day doing that. Goddamn. Hey, we can you make me a snack first? Yes, thanks from all of us. What is a podcast? Really good in the last like, five minutes. Kind of this region a bullshit stride.
We don't. Yeah we really try to be like smart educational and then step aside, I don't think about starting another podcast on the infinite Quest Network that's like us but it's just there's no point to the podcast. It's not an idiot Steve I guess. And then it's just yes, I was digging around in who's that's what most like, people most podcasts to that. And a lot of them are quite successful Katie, but successful while we're also thinking about
splitting the podcast into. Yeah, this is yeah, I feel like this would be a listener. Feedback thing. We'll do a poll on Spotify. Oh yeah, I'll put a link. You listen on Spotify will do a poll but it's not still listening. That means you like to show. Smell us a task. It in request podcast. Also, I hope your wife is going well, and I hope your dishes are
almost done. I hope the drive is going well, and I hope your I wonder also email us and asking and for quest.com, if you were sitting in your driveway right now, waiting for the episode to finish in which case, I'm sorry. But oh we're thinking of splitting the podcast into two podcasts because we do In episodes and we do not gaming episodes and so we find ourselves like at conventions and stuff when they're like, oh, do you have a gaming podcasts?
Like, yes. But you have to scroll through all of them to find the ones that are coming up us Odes. And so we're thinking about starting a completely separate podcast, that will it's still like infinite Quest Network, so it'll have like the watermark on it. So it's still us but that's just the gaming episodes so that you can listen to those without having to scroll through the other ones. I don't fucking know.
Anyways, if you think that's a good idea you'd like us to do it. Answer accordingly in the poll. If you think is bad idea and you don't want to do it, fuck you. No, I'm kidding. Um from all of us here in infinite crust podcast eat a snack. I remember the order but I'm gonna try to get out. I mix up the order, sometimes a fresh. Remember to eat a snack. Drink some water. Take your meds, huh? Huh? I was curious what you're gonna say.
Uh, after I said, I was just like, you know, that you're cracked so far. I figured you just take your meds be kind to yourself. Be kind to others. I know I'm missing one. There's obviously there's a remember that we love you is the ending but like know you had them all. I got that's all. Oh and remember that we love you, thanks for listening. Everybody will see you next week. Bye. Thanks again, to Geeks Therapeutics for sponsoring this episode.
Just a reminder, you can get 10% off your order on their website geek Therapeutics.com by using promo code infinite Quest. Please do check them out. What they do is really amazing and we're just so stoked to work with them. They have a new book. Look on the psychology of Elden ring coming out and you just might see a little forward from yours truly in there. Maybe, hmm knows. If you'd like to help support the podcast, you can do. So by visiting patreon.com infinite Quest and signing up to
be a member. And if you do, you get your name in a song, Eventually, you can also get a bunch of infinite Quest merch, that we forgot we made at Redbubble.com. People /, infinite Quest. There's there's some stuff on there, anyways. Bye everybody, thanks for listening, bye.