Hi everybody, it's me. Katie asaurus. Oh, hi look, it's me. He goood and welcome back to infinite Quest. This is another episode. There you go. It sure is. And when he banging in this episode, we're going to talk about Eric and eyes. Weirdly conflicting, definition of the word burnout. Yeah I was really I was really interested. I didn't expect that you and I just think a very different things and we think of it each
day. Yeah. So we're going to talk about burnout in this episode and we did want to just let you know that this conversation does get like a little vulnerable recorded. This one live on Twitch and people in the chat were, you know, kind of maybe having a rough time with some of it. So we just wanted to let you know that ahead of time and we also wanted to let you know that we have a tour. Yes, there is a tour way I've ever made. There is a tour happening at First Dates.
Go to infinite Quest. Podcast.com click on tour dates, we're going all over place. We're going to the east coast. We're going to Wisconsin. We're Going to places. So check it out if you want to know, if you want to see if we're going to be near you and that's it. Transition, ha ha. Hi everybody. It's me. Katie source is so much wrong sound. Yeah. So you can get a clear picture along with Jonathan felt house.
Who were super grateful for Angie was trying to make Jonathan's job easier and right off the bat. I'm being personally attacked go to, hey, Jonathan, Jonathan if you're hearing this, you might have to subtract five seconds from Allah to all the time stamps. I'm kidding. I'll let you know in the email that you're about to see after this. Anyways, hi everybody. I'm here goood that's Kate. The Soros and we're here to talk about ADHD burn out today. How do you feel about this topic?
Katie? What emotions, do you feel in your heart? Do you want the honest answer? Like, just right off the bat. Yes, No, I want you to lie on the but I want you to make everything up. Of course it would tread anger and resentment. Real dad is what I feel. What do you feel like us dread concerning what and resentment at what? Well mind, read that. I have to continue sitting in the squeaky squeaky chair. I got to be for you. Ready for this, on the podcast live action.
That's really good. Good job. You really totally worked. It works perfectly too. Because I don't, I just such like a big topic, I think. Is the first part is that? I just, I just genuinely, don't, I don't even know where to begin on this one. That's what, that's what I have to say. Yeah, I guess to. I'm all right. When I think of burnout, I also think I'm what immediately comes out for me is the concept of hyper focus and I hear from a lot of people, I suspect you do to that.
They think of hyper-focus as being like a bad thing because if they think of it as sort of like a failure or a failure to continue, like doing the thing, you know, that they got hyper-focused on a painting session or something like that or or have you're fixated on painting in general or something and then they burn out on it, they feel and I don't mean just
say them and don't belong. I also feel this like it sometimes feels like a failure to like continue to do the thing because if you have ADHD and you know you have ADHD you had for a while you start to notice that the pattern of like, oh I'll get really into something and then it completely not care about it anymore. And okay, I guess over the years, I try to like I try to, can I say I start to think that like the goal is just to finish or to do it for long periods of
time. But I don't think that's the case. And so anyways, when I think of burnout and like the anger that I felt, Feel when I get burnt out on stuff it's I guess kind of concerning that there's a ukulele on the floor. K Darius. That's okay. Well, here's here's the thing. I feel like we need to Define what burnout means to us because I think I think we're thinking about two different things. Really? Yes. Based on everything you just said, I think that Do I need to
be closer? Thank you though. That I have a little wimpy voice. It's okay. Wimpy wimpy boys. Yeah. What is what is, what is burnout mean to you? Well, for me like burnout is like over is about overextension. It's about like I'm going to take on 57 different hobbies and 27 different activities and throw myself like heart and soul into like everything that I do and then ultimately become like Exhausted and overworked and over Spence and bird out that.
That is what because that is, that is chronically a problem in my life, is the over-committing and the over stretching myself and the like I'm going to be involved in every activity. Take that ha, ha ha ha, you know what I mean? Yes. Yeah I know which me, I think what you can you will you do a thing where your projects and almost I don't want to see her. I purposes but you're the things that you're applying yourself to are very diverse.
They're like all over the place. Yeah and I think like for me mine are generally more precise like I'll go really hard on one project for like a week and then read out from that whereas it's interesting. I think you burn out from
magnitude. Let me not know from from quantity as well as magnitude which is not to say that you're the things that you do in one of our all are smaller in magnitude and you know, the one thing that I might have to focus on but it but I just I just think it's interesting to bring up that your the things that you group, they're not from our our diverse
I suppose. Yeah. Well for me like burnout is different than getting bored of something I think that's I think that's maybe because to me it sounds like you're talking about like, hyper focusing on. Like an activity or something until you're done with it. Yes. No, no. Not necessarily. I do think we're slightly talking about different things. Yeah. I feel like we're talking about different thing was so sorry and you want to elaborate more what you think?
Well, no. Like I'm just, he's like, I'm just thinking about burnout more in terms of like just like the, like the exhaustion of Focus and attention, and the stuff that you have to get done and like, for me my bad habit, is that, you know, if my, how do I put this, you know, if you're, if you're looking at, if you're looking at my ability to do stuff on like a line graph or something, there's like a point where it's like, okay, you should stop here.
Like this is enough stuff, you've got enough going on, you don't need this extra stuff. But I go. But what if I went like Five Points past that and just completely over stressed and overworked and overcommitted myself and then, and so, for me, like, that's where like the burnout comes from, it's not like in conversation with like, just like the amount of like energy and spoons that I spend
just like existing every day. It's less about like the one thing and it's more of like the everything does that make the sense? Yeah. Totally. Do you think so when you say Like you. Well, I'll put you reach a point where you should stop it. Then you push, you know, Five Points past that. Do you think I don't want to? I don't want to put any like, fault, or blame on you or make this sound. Like I'm accusing you of
anything. But do you think your do you think you're noticing that you're hitting that limit and deciding to push past it? Or do you think you haven't reached that limit yet? And you're like, no, I got more in me, I'm gonna keep going. Um, both I think that I mean because like one of the things that I've started noticing about my ADHD is it sort of like sort of like reflecting a little bit more? Is that? I like if it's not a crisis it's not going to get done.
And so burnout is a really great way of artificially creating crisis. Because like, if you keep yourself constantly stressed out all the time, then everything is a crisis until you can get everything done, huh? Yeah. That's weirdly clever. Yeah, do you think it's super unhealthy? This yeah. I mean, yeah, I don't I don't advocate for it but it's very, it's very, it's very useful. In terms of like that grad school like everybody goes. Well how did you get through grad school?
And I'm like, oh well because while I was going to grad school, I was also running a separate feeder company at night. And I was also in charge of all of the graphic design and I was in charge of all the program photography and I ran the costume shop. And I made all of the Costumes and I directed three shows. And I was in every project that anybody did. Wow, that was my strategy of getting through grad school was over committing myself so hard, that everything was a crisis.
So then I would get everything done. Wow, that's how I did it. I mean, that totally tracks with certain studies, done about ADHD and focus. If the stakes are higher, if there's more, holy shit going on. Yeah, you're more likely to be able to do the thing ya I've ever seen. There's a TED Talk. I think the Is tips from a master procrastinator and I remember I saw this Ted Talk and I was like, I procrastinated how come he gets a TED talk? Like, I want to do that Richard Saul wurman.
Give me to talk what, he drew this analogy, where he's like, the inside of procrastinators brain. Is you didn't specifically mention procrastination, but like I think it ties in the inside of a progressive, his brain. He's like it looks like this and he showed he puts up this little image and it's like a hastily drawn. Gone like like head.
And then the in the brain cavity, there's a tree in a monkey and he's like it's very scientifically accurate and it gets a big laugh and I was like I was fine and he basically says this monkey is the instant gratification monkey. This monkey is what drives my brain.
The majority of the time, no matter what I have to do this monkey is generally at the house and he says, however as a deadline approaches as I approached like I have the minimum possible amount of And to do the thing once the deadline is approaching and it's like, holy shit and crunch time. Hence, he goes, then this guy comes out and there's like a big hastily drum Mark or a monster like drawn in crayon with big teeth. He's like this is the Panic monster. The monkey is terrified of the
panic monster. So the Panic monster comes out, the monkey goes away in the monkey, like scurries up the tree because now, the Panic monster is that is at the helm and this is when I do all of the things that I've ever done is in this Panic monster mode, and I thought that was a really apt analogy, because I'm very much That way it's like nothing. I can't I can't reach the level of simulation or interested in something until you'd like you said it until there is Crisis.
And so that totally which tracks with again with tracks, which a number of different studies about ADHD concerning performance and and what was usually generally referred to as stress but like how much stimulus has to be going on in order to perform at a certain level and it sounds like the way that you did that was it works I guess. I mean I mean yeah it was incredibly effective District. Bolted in massive burn out. After the fact is just kind of
thing is acceptable. I mean, you're keeping the the Panic monster around. Yeah. In order to get things done, I mean, I think I like yeah, like I just kept going until I couldn't anymore. You know what what happened to once you couldn't anymore. Like what did that look like? This is sitting cross-legged in a gamer chair. I mean, I mean for me, like burnout is weird because like, like, oh boy, we're supposed we're going to get so podcast therapy for a second.
Like, it's my thing is, like, I and I know this about myself, this isn't like a revelation, but, like, I invest my self-worth, my self-esteem and my satisfaction in being productive and like doing stuff and like, if I'm not doing Doing stuff that I am profoundly uncomfortable so in conversation with like but what if everything is a crisis all the time. So I can get stuff done. That means that my the more
crisis that is happening. The more stress the more pressure that I put on myself the more productive I am because that is best thing. So it becomes a vicious cycle where when I get to the point of burnout, I'm not being productive. - and then I get upset and frustrated and angry at myself because like I could be doing so much more and I know that I can do more because I know what I am capable of doing in the moments where like the Panic monster shows up.
And so if I'm not at that level of Work and investment all the time. Then I'm like, well fuck. So my solution to burnout is to find something else to burn myself out on. That's, I just, I just, I just go from burnout to burrow, huh? Is this is not healthy. I want to be very clear like I'm not advocating for this. This is not like a solution. I'm putting forward, I am just In This Moment. Being honest about my
experience. Because I feel like so often we have these conversations about like ADHD it sort of like the stuff that we can't do and like I'm the exact opposite.
Like I am a high achieving person with ADHD and so if I'm not achieving highly, that's where I start to find her like like the profound uncomfortability of that's not going to work, but like A profound feeling of of being uncomfortable when I'm not being actively productive is honestly I would rather just be burned out all the time then have to sit in the feeling of not feeling like I'm being
productive. Hmm. Huh. Are there any other things are there any other circumstances, I suppose that also caused that same kind of? I don't know, State like the Panic monster thing but are there any other things that have happened? Any other circumstances that have caused you to be in that like go mode of productivity without having just an ungodly quantity of stuff on your plate? I genuinely don't understand the question. It was a very Pro rata question question.
I just asked well I guess I mean, I guess I mean I like I totally understand the need to have a lot of stimulus e stuff going on having just a massive quantity of it going on in order to get anything done but I think there's a healthier way of replicating. Those that sure without having to actually cram your plate full of every possible.
Checked. And so like, for me, having a deadline is really helpful to me, like, it'll even though with, you know, the stimulus, then comes from the the time that I have in order to get something done rather than the quantity of things that I have to get done. So I'm curious if like, does working on a deadline, get you into that same productivity mode, does, you know, working in a loud Place. Have you found anything else? That's simulates in some ways that sense of immediacy.
The answer is no, it's fine. Suddenly cries. I mean I think it's one of the reasons why I became a stage manager was because even if like I'm only doing one thing there, I mean as the same but like the Renaissance Festival is one of the reasons why I love that job was because technically speaking, the only thing I was doing that day was going to work but going to work meant, putting out.
Sometimes a literal actual fires all day long, dealing with small, emergencies minor emergencies, like that kind of thing. But in a way to where like I could sort of like amplifier, If I the stress quotient by deciding that like is they're saying, okay, well, like none of these things are earth-shattering emergencies because like the juggler can't find the ball, you know what it's like, but, like artificially, creating that sort of like, I have to solve all of these problems right now.
In this moment immediately made me more productive. So result, it resulted in massive amounts of burnout because like, I don't know what to do with myself, if I'm not Being productive and so like it's weird because sometimes I do take breaks like I said and I'll, you know, like we watch slings and arrows or like 30 Rock or whatever.
Like it's not like in those moments, I'm like, actively like panicking, but I'm not as comfortable as I would be, if I was like making something or like doing something, you know. I mean I do a lot of multitasking anyway but hmm, I don't know, I don't I have no idea what he's talking about. No I mean I am because I was like, okay.
So what about you though? Because I feel like you have a very different relationship and Look at different relationship and reaction to Brown. Yeah, my burnout is I guess it can to mental exhaustion. In some ways, we're like nothing. I was has I at any given time, I have an idea for a board game that I want to be working on an idea for a coffee stirrer models, and I want to be working on. I have an idea for music that I want to write. I have an idea for ways.
I want to arrange my house projects. I want to do ways to organize my sock drawer, like all of those things, you know, I think part of this, one of the effects of an ADHD brain being so craving stimulus.
So always is I would I feel that I always try to squeeze as much stimulus out of everything that I possibly can which is often very nice because I'll be at work doing you know a menial task which is really boring but I need to squeeze every ounce of dopamine and interest out of this thing that I can. So I'll try to perfect my onion, cutting technique or perfect. The way. I'm see how many cherry tomatoes
I can cut it once. Like I have to just pull as much information out of the thing to just not be bored. And similarly, that's just how I The, when I'm every whenever I'm awake, I need to be extracting shit. I find interesting out of stuff. And what that often leads to is having an immense amount of ideas that I want to pursue
that. I know I'm most the vast majority of which I'm not going to be able to pursue, I'm likely not going to be able to to make the board game and and write the symphony and have a successful by guests and do all those things and the burnout comes from the enormity of that. And I'll get like five percent done on one thing and I'll get some notes scribbled down on the amount on another thing which is
which is satisfying. But then over the years looking back, I have notebooks and notebook and some notebooks full of half ideas and projects that have been half finished. And so, I'll Justice, I'll assume. I'll but it generally looks like is all assumed many projects. I'll start scribbling down ideas for something, I'll start brainstorming for something and the majority of them.
I forget. So I'm constantly sort of losing my think I made a video about this little while ago that people with ADHD or sometimes in, like a constant state of mourning for all the things that they've forgotten. And so, as I'm having ideas for, you know, that would be an interesting shot for a movie. Like I should go out back and Try to get it on my iPhone or whatever all those little ideas that you know, I like I come up with to try to just a simulated
all the time. I'm aware that the majority of those that deny all times. Those are going away, those are falling off the boat and being left behind. And there's like a sense of mourning for that. And so after a while, if I have like they'll be like a couple months where I'm just like constantly just trying to think of projects and like trying to be not bored then I'll sort of look back. I think of it as like things.
Falling off a boat. So look back in the wake of the boat and they're just ideas and projects just bobbing towards the horizon, never to be seen again. And that makes me really fucking sad. And then I'm like, why? If I'm not going to remember that, I even started any of these things. Why would I? And then I fucking burn out hard and I'm like, why would I ever do anything? Just not going to ever start anything.
Your definition of burnout is so fundamentally different than mine that I'm having an accept like a genuinely like difficult time. Wrapping my head around what? And I think this is okay, it's just really funny like I thought we were going to be talking about something completely different really. Well, how do you think? Because I think both of our sayings of burnout have to do with revving, really hard? Yeah. And then that's just not being able to revenue more.
Yeah. And I think Willie well I think my burnout comes not from not being able to rev anymore. Yeah, it comes. Comes from my frustration with the amount that I'm revving is clearly just all for naught God. Why would I be yeah, thinking so hard all the time or if I'm just going to forget most of them or whatever. Will you also? So I think a really interesting maybe a way to get to the bottom of this if we didn't need to but it's like you when you went to school for music.
Yeah. Do you feel like you burned out on playing classical guitar? Is that hope like like it? because like because like I think that's maybe the difference is like Because I know your story, you told me the story of like, you know, why you quit and to me, that is my definition of burnout. Hmm. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So why? I quit sort of being? It's because you were burned out, right? I mean, I guess I see what you're saying.
I think so just for context and we listening to this episode. If you haven't seen the other episodes, I went to this boarding school in high school for classical music. I played classical guitar, and then quit music immediately after graduating. And my relationship to music is
never quite been the same. I I think well, I, when I say, I quit classical guitar, Because well I mean for an enormity of reasons if you know listen to music episode, everyone trying to remember some of them but I think it was similar in that. No amount of effort was going to be enough to do the thing that I felt was The Only Thing Worth doing which is becoming excellent at Guitar largely because of my ADHD, I didn't think about at the time although I technically had been
diagnosed. I never thought about ADHD actually as a thing until a couple years ago but I couldn't do the things that I needed to do. I couldn't, you know, if I sat in a chair and warmed up for an hour, I mean my brain was the LG I was thinking is like if you were to throw a shoe and a dryer like I'm spinning around. Yeah, it gets unbalanced. You go shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, Richard, liked it.
That's what it feels like when I have just sit and focus on nothing so often unless it's something it really stimulates. Yeah. But anyways it just it just felt like I was right again like the things falling off the boat. Like as I was learning new skills was caught with classical
guitar. I wasn't practicing other ones because I forgot that I had to practice them and they would just fall to Chef and so after you Of like ADHD swinging at this thing, I got pretty decent but I knew that lifestyle was someone I could maintain Nora and I didn't I liked whether or not I wanted to maintain it was sort of secondary. I think, I mean at the time I thought I really wanted to but or I could but I didn't want to but looking back, I really want it to look good. Yeah.
And that was weird. But in what ways do you think that that sort of burnout was is similar to your death? Mission for an hour. Well, I think it's the sort of quest for absolute perfection and all things. If you're not the best, it's not worth your time.
Because that's the thing that like I really struggle with like in terms of burnout is like it's not just like I have to take on 12 different projects, it's like they have to be the best version of that product product project or whatever anything that I'm
trying to make the product. And if it's not then like I'm a failure and it's taken me years to like even realize that like, that's how I think about it and then like and I've spent a lot more time working on it and I'm still not like, in any way close to like solving that problem because I still feel that way like I think we talked about this a little bit on the first cooking episode but it's like if I'm going to make chocolate chip cookies, I expect those chocolate chip cookies to be the
best chocolate. He's Eve ever had in your entire life and if they aren't, then I'm a failure and it wasn't worth my time. And so, then I think that's where like burnout can kind of start to like reroute that feeling of like I've exhausted myself and I spent all this time and for what? For nothing except that the nothing is very sort of like, Subjective. You know what I mean? Yeah, well because it sounds like, so, based on what you said, it sounds like some of your burnout. Excuse me.
Some of your brother has to do with the quantity of projects. You know, you committed in grad school, you know, you committed every project over here and you're also running shows after, you know at night, but then also each individual one of those projects you wanted to do perfectly had to be. They had to be excellent. Yes. How much of your burnout do you think? Or how much which of those do you think contributed more to your the Perfection or the quantity?
I mean I can't separate the two that's the thing for me like that's one of the hardest things is like even I mean, I'm so burned out right now. Like, I like, I know that I am. Like, I'm really struggling with depression, I'm like dissociated, like half the time. Like, I'm just like, I've no idea what's going on. I'm just constantly losing track of time and dates and emails obligations, and all that kind
of stuff. And it's because, like, I'm I know that I'm just like profoundly burned out but if I stop The momentum goes away, the interest wanes, and all of the sudden, you know, oh, we don't have to do a podcast this week, guess we can also skip next week, like, you know, do we really need to do Tuesday and Thursday and then like, because that's the thing. It's like the minute that I give myself permission to like Break. I'm not being productive and it's not perfect. So, what's the point?
Hmm. Healthy I'm sorry sweetheart. I mean it's I mean it's fine. It's just like it's best that on being a part of Connecticut like what's also mea it. Brings me back to the to the notion. The idea that the truth that ADHD is a disorder of Regulation. Yeah.
Of our executive functions and so it's kind of interesting that Your existing in a place where your your, I guess your, your energy and your mind and your your spoons are being spent a lot and frequently doing many things very well, might add if that helps her sit but you're very good at stuff in general and it doesn't seem like that's very regulated.
It seems like that's compulsive and Seems like perhaps what you're worried about is if you were to break that streak of just going all the time and a prank Leon Regulators way. That you would then on regulate in the opposite direction that all the sudden you're not doing anything would become an unregulated unmitigated streak. Yeah. So you can you be doing everything all the time but it any break from? That is a chance to slip over the opposite where you're doing nothing ever.
Yes, I do not think it dog all-or-nothing thinking, what do you think? What do you think the middle Zone there would look like for you? I'm not trying to, it's too like, solve your. But I'm just, I'm just a will try to pick your brain a little bit. Little bit that brand pain. I mean, I think it would it. I mean, the answer is very simple, it's finding a balance it's saying, okay. I don't have to spend, you know, I don't have to work 14 hours a
day, like that's silly. You don't have to accept it like, It's weird because like one of the things that I really deal with and this is I think like a profound sort of, it's like symptomatic of my neurodiversity as a whole, but it's like, if something works. It works for a reason even if
it's incredibly unhealthy. And so, like, in my head, I have worked so hard non-stop for almost to like, well, like a year and a half at this point on this, I have worked every single day I have gotten and maybe six hours of sleep the family lucky like I'm working 12 to 14 hours a day every single day ominous and so like if I stop That's different than what I've been
doing before and what I'm doing. What I have been doing before is working because like, I am. I am I'm building this sort of like success and defining the success on my own terms. And so if I stop doing it and I change it, if I change the routine, if I change the pattern, if I change what I'm doing then it's not going to work is good. Because what is a, what is working is what I'm doing. Yeah, I guess I'm maybe it was that yeah credibly stupid what?
Like that's like what my brain says my. But like I mean it's the same thing where it's like factually I know. But it probably does not make a single God damn bit of difference. If I post a video at like 10:30 or 11:00 every look, it's a half hour difference. The one I first started posting tick-tocks, I would post them every morning at like 10:30 and so my brain. Rain says, you have to keep posting a video at 10:30 or like your morning videos are going to
be like a hit or whatever. Congratulations. You did it. We made it to the middle of the episode. Okay, buddy. Boom, proud of you. Consider maybe having a glass of water. Yeah, you know, to celebrate this, incredible accomplishment, maybe consider getting a pet goldfish to, you could consider that you could go to a carnival. You could win one win one on the hook, very low next or you could get one from a wizard in a duel. Can also do that.
Just make sure that you're going to take care of the little guys, take care. Little Fishies true. They can get really big if you give them a big big tank. Speaking of all Decatur room in your house to your new goldfish when we just made so many roommates man. Sorry roommate you have to leave. I have a goldfish and I'm turning this whole room into an
aquarium. And speaking of that, did you know that we have a patreon, we do called Patriots, patreon.com slash infinite Quest if you want to come on over and help support the show. Help support us, do things and stuff and help our dreams of owning a room-sized aquarium. That's right. That's a blast actually. What we've been spending all the money on? Is that giant aquarium? That's right. Not that to or not, our mission of advocacy and education, just
secret room sized aquarium. Well, in fact, dear listener, if you look under your seat. No, there's not a go. No, there's not gonna be a server. That would be pretty crazy. Okay, anyways, back to the show, also send us pictures of your goldfish. Transitions. So, what I think I'm trying to say is that Burn outcomes. Also partially from the maintenance of that system because structure is boring. Continuity is boring doing the same thing every day for my ADHD
is exhausting boring. And it's almost a think more exhausting than just doing everything like sort of willy-nilly with no order because now not only am I burning myself out in terms of the It's like abject quest for perfectionism but also just trying to stick to that schedule because I do know I'm not good with sticking to a schedule, but sticking to a schedule is what is creating the success.
So it's become this very like like convoluted and knotted up sort of like weird logic system in my brain where I'm trying to do the same thing everyday. But what I'm trying to do is like achieve an unobtainable level of perfection also sticking to the same. Like schedule, which is also exhausting for my ADHD, which is making everything worse and resulting in more burnout. Which is making me hold tighter to those structures, etc. Etc, etc. Mmm. Yeah, I think.
This is me again. Not trying to generalize too much but I think it's pretty common that the 80s. You brain lacks or wants for structure and wants for executive functions, so much. That the thing, the external things that seem to provide that for us become super precious.
It's almost like a kind of feels like, you know, if you own a nice thing that you couldn't make yourself, you know, like, for example, if I I didn't or couldn't fix you if I broke a chair or something like that, I could prepare the chair. If it's like, I don't have anything to eat. I can throw something together with the stuff that I have, but like, if my car breaks down, I have no idea how to fix cars.
Yeah. So the people who can fix cars or any circumstance that causes my car to be fixed is like magic in there in extremely valuable life. So I'm so grateful to people who know how to fix cars because I can't do it. So, similarly, any time a Structure is overlaid or any time the question of what should I be doing right now? Is answered objectively and perhaps externally becomes really valuable because the question of should I be working right now?
If the answer of maybe is a lot more difficult to think about than the answer of. Yes, because if the answer is, I should have you working right now. Yes, that's much more simple than having to consider whether or not you should actually take a break. But similarly, and I experienced this problem is, should I be working right now? Know, is, is I don't want to say similarly, satisfying, because they lead to very different
things. You know, whether I end up working or adapt, not working, but they put my brain equally at rest because I don't have to decide. Side. Does that make sense? It's kind of a it's a strange thing. I'm deeply interested. I mean I'm fascinated by the fact that your brain tells you know you don't need to be working right now. Well no it's not that my brain. How do I learn that skill? Well it's sort of I guess the question is in a surly should I be working?
Its am I going to work right now? And for example if I'm in a kitchen if I'm in am working in a profession location. No. Ask you no matter how disgusting or unpleasant is something that I don't want to do. I don't care. Cleaning, the toilets is the same as julienning. Onions is the same as taking out the trash and she ain't cleaning. It doesn't matter because I know whatever the chef asked me to do is what I am to do, right? And there's no mental, wait on me to decide what I have to be
doing right now. Somebody else tells me what to do. This is a big perhaps a bit related to our spicy content. You want to go back and listen to the king. Episode. But the idea that I don't have to make that decision, similarly, like, you know, if I am really sick and can't go to work. I simply I feel that same sense of ease because there's no decision to be made. I can't go to work because I'm sick.
So the thing that's that burns me out really hard is having to decide what to do with my time all the time and it sounds like for you, perhaps the idea of just should I be working? Yes. Am I going to work here? Yes. Like you don't have it rids. You of the burden of having to decide what you're going to do all the time. You just am I going to work? Yes, I am and since We lack executive functions because we
have ADHD. We know that once we start playing that game and trying to assemble our own priorities, we're just going to fucking spin. I mean, I don't want to say, we like I'm totally speaking for you, that's okay. But for me once I know that once it enters my Arena and I get to decide what I should be doing right now. At should I be working or should I be taking a break? My bright. That's hurts. It hurts. It hurts a lot. Whereas I'd like very much crave. Just, yes, you should.
This is what you are to do right now. And whether or not I like, enjoy the task, or whatever is relevant at that point, because I know that I'm doing them spending my time in the way that I'm supposed quote, unquote, supposed to be spending my time. So, do you know what it I guess to turn this into a question. Do you think? Your need to be constantly productive is in a way. How do I say this? Is your need to be constantly productive way of use simplifying.
The question of, what should I be doing right now? I mean, first off, I didn't come here to me personally, attacked second, I think. Yeah. But I think like, I mean, I guess my answer is like, probably, but I think it's also like It's tough.
Because Be over extension is also like, it's not just should I be working right now because they're still like the choice of like, you know, I've got five different sewing projects going on and like, I also want to, like, learn how to bake bread or like, whatever the thing is, you know what I mean? So, it's not just like, oh, I'm observing myself of having to make a choice because I had to choose like, what am I going to
work on? But I think that's where like, then like the structure comes in of like, okay, well, it's What am I doing 10:30 or 11 or like whatever? But I don't I don't know like that part, it's harder to like honestly I don't know if I have any answers because like I think like maybe I'm using I'm using the like number of things that I do to like sort of create a de facto schedule.
So like I just know where I'm going to be all the time because it's like okay I have this at 2:30 in this is 3, this is 345 and this is 4 and this is double booked it for. So I'm going to have to line and emailed to you know like Anything. But I don't like, I don't know because I guess like I don't I don't think about it in terms of choice. Like I joke a lot about like you know, the like all. I don't want to say it that way.
Like I mean I like I think I make like a lot of jokes about like being told what to do and in terms of like a kink context because like I think you're right, like the elimination of choice is often much simpler but Even even in those spicy circumstances, they're still part of me that's like, but I am going to do the best fucking job, at whatever the thing is. And so like that mindset is still with me. It's just eliminating. The like what am I supposed to
be doing right now? So, I don't know if it's like, I don't know that was like 10 minutes of an audience her, I'm so sorry. Well because I think I'm also realizing I'm starting a lot of my talking with, for me like I'm able to support because I think like honestly like this is, this is a thing where I think we actually have like, we're agreeing with each other, but I think we actually have like, kind of different views on it. Yeah.
I mean you work so fucking hard which and I'm too just as it just. I'm saying that objectively got on my saying it's good or bad or what. I'm just saying you do and I think how so much of my ADD ADHD burn out when I burn out when I just go, okay, enough of all the Cheese's like I need to sit in a dark room and stare at a wall. So much of that comes from me having to decide how to spend my
time. So a lot of the times when I don't do a thing where I'm like, 'oh or you know, if I have an idea for like, oh dude, I could totally right, you know, a death metal song based on Rachmaninoff or something like that. I think it's a great idea. The excellent if I start if I decide. Okay, I'm going to write that in
some weird way. In my head, I feel like oh I'm setting the precedent now that I am going to work on the ideas that I have and that sort of scares me because it's easier to just to just be like to just have an idea and go up. Fuck it like nope. I'm just going to throw it away. Then to set the precedent my own brain that I'm capable of making the decision to work on it. Whereas if somebody just comes Up and goes like, no, this is what you're doing now.
Like I would happily do it that. But what if I decide for myself? I'm almost afraid of the control that I have. I'm afraid of like oh shit. Like I have agency over how I spend my time that's terrifying. And then I burn out on, just a little all the possibilities that emerge from that. Like I could wake up really early tomorrow I could and all of a sudden I like start constructing perfect versions of myself and it scares the fuck out of me and it burns me out so
I'll like burning out. Out for me is is related to the amount of things that I'm doing or the amount of time I spend being quote, unquote productive, but the friction in the heat comes from the weight of having to make so many decisions about how to spend my time and I who and that really scares the shit out of me. Do you think that you are frightened by your own potential? Yeah. Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate. So we are powerful beyond all
measure. Yeah, I know. Absolutely. I mean, Yeah, absolutely. I think and I think you have this too and I think you do listener have those as well with with something. a lot of times in the pursuit of perfection, you end up being pretty good, it ends up whatever the thing you're doing is ends up, being pretty good by your standards, at least and it's almost like,
It's not what I'm trying. That's almost like the The Tick-Tock algorithm occasionally just giving you a, here's a million views, keep making gaming content. You know, like, it will give you that hit. I think. Generally people are pretty confident at like at least one thing, everybody has something that they can do very well. Most people have you know multiple you know everybody's got a singer, they can do very well and In the pursuit of many projects, doing many things, and
trying to do them all perfectly. Every once in a while, you'll get that dopamine hit of having done a thing and being like, fuck, that's really good. That's excellent. Yeah. And that scares the shit out of ya because then, who knows what of those ideas that I'm constantly like forgetting who knows? Which of those ideas would have been an excellent final product if only I took the initiative to work on it or got in a bed earlier, whatever I'm getting down.
So for the time and that is exhausting to me, the thought that like holy shit, like I've done enough things and enough of them have turned out pretty good. That any given thing, I think of has the potential to actually be pretty good. And for that reason, whenever when the ideas are coming in and then, going out and coming and there's big revolving, door of like I should do this. No way this. No, wait, this, no, wait.
This each one of those. It's, it's, the feeling is a feeling of morning is Is as ideas fade from my memory. That could have been a massively awesome thing that is now fading away. So, every idea that I have, I can either do it and engage with it in a real way and it'll turn out. However, it turns out or I can leave it perfect and forget about it. And I don't know, as I make sense but that's that contributes to my brown, a lot, just the idea that holy shit.
If I could just, if I could just grab onto any one of these fucking ideas and just goddamn do it, who knows what could happen. But I don't know, I, but there's just so they're just flowing in all the time. There's so many options for how you can spend your time, in the things you can make and people you can meet him. It's just the enormity of that of all those possibilities and
makes my brain hot and it hurts. so anyways, anytime somebody's like, Cleaning, toilets, that's what you should be doing right now or sweeping the thing. That's what you should be doing right now. Then it's like cool. Like it's not up to me, you know, whatever happens is not on me. Sure I could be writing a symphony right but like I'm not and that's not my fault. It's not on me. Yeah.
You know but then the agency of like Anyways, I guess I'm constantly viewing the birth and death of ideas just over and over and over and over and over again. Yeah, I know. It's like just the feeling that comes from that. I think the feeling that I think that feeling is, is related to. It's one of the ingredients that we still my bro. No, yeah, no, that makes, that
makes total sense. I think there's all the while there are things to sort of like coming to existence and then like dying in front of me is like, I mean it was in Boston. I was I don't even get to see them die. I just don't know that they just I forgot them. Yeah you know I probably had some idea this morning I was like oh my God she totally I don't know what ever try to build a Hut out of the leaves out or whatever, but just, I don't know, they're just gone. Yeah, that's all it is.
It's a massive pile of dead ideas, just lying around. it's interesting that you talk about, Like not starting to avoid that. You know what I mean? Like I only, I think maybe that's like the difference between you and I dear Eric, is that I have never failed at anything. I have tried and I know, hmm, like I'm learning calculus 2:00 in the morning now because I got mad that I can't do math.
And so I've just decided to range, learn math when I should be sleeping, I have a pile of math textbooks by my bed. Now that's fucking weird. Eric, it's bearded. I do that. But like, and it sounds so self-indulgent to be like, I have I've really never failed at anything that I've tried, but like, I know that about myself.
Like I know that I'm adapt. I know that I'm good at things, and I know that if I'm not good at things using pure agents fight, I will get good enough at the thing to, like, wrap my mind around. It and understand it. And I think that is, I think, like, for we like, we have the exact opposite thing. Like rather than let anything go. I will do it. I will do it successfully, so I get that.
Like, haha, ADHD. You will not take this idea for me, and you will not take that idea for maybe you will not take anything for me because I refused. But my refusal is about doing, but because I have to be perfect about it, and because it has to be like, the best best thing that is where my browser is that I refuse. Like, I'd like the I go the complete opposite direction and then not doing, I tried and attempt to do every single one.
Hmm, that's the difference between you and I think, I think I've worked that out. Yeah, another, but they went along that same vein I think is, you know, when you so much of this episode of just, I was spent just trying not to comport myself. But when you realize that you were pretty smart, you know, in school your response to that, I think was holy shit. I'm really smart and like just
good at stuff. So if I just try really hard, I could be a Fucking god, like I could be a successful this and that and the other. And indeed, you could indeed you did. Or as for me, I realize like oh fuck, like I'm pretty smart. Like this is actually salt seems a lot easier for me than this is for everybody else. That means I could try like 10% and still be fine. That's what I did is I was like oh okay.
That means I can do less and still be just the same as everybody else where he was like, oh, if I try as hard as everybody else, I'm going to be a lot better than them. And then keep doing that eventually, working much harder than everybody else. Really think that that, that is a very fundamental, not divide, but difference between you and me, and I think we're both. I think we're both healthy for
each other in a lot of ways. Like I try, I think I get you to relax more and to just be like, hey, it's okay, just let it go more and you get me to, you know, Do things. I think you're wrong about one thing. What's that is that? I never got to the point where I was like and if I work really hard, I will be a fucking God because I never, I never get that good at anything because I'm always I'm always going on to the next thing.
And that's why I think that's where I like, I implicitly understand what you're talking about because like, I, I'm very good at a lot of things, but I'm not going to anything and I feel that pain a lot. And it's because my ADHD never will be choose. I always wanted to find the next thing I was always going on to the next type of fixation. So like I like weird fact about me, I don't think we've talked about this before but like I love cake decorating. Yeah, fun. I'm good at it.
I'm not. I by no means great. And there's a big gap between being okay, decorating cakes and being like amazing at it. But it's because like I never like I had the hyper fixation, I got good enough at it to like do the one good thing and then like I've moved on and so like For me, I never had that. Like, and if I keep working, ultimately, I will reach, you know, God level because everybody started expecting God level from.
And so if I delivered anything less than God level, if I delivered anything less than Perfection, then I would get in trouble or I would be I would be disappointing or I would, I would let somebody down or whatever. And so because Like I was so visibly good at things because I was so visibly. Like, gifted in many different areas, the expectation began became Kate will do what? Kate will pick up the slack cable? Be the person who like oh you need a costume in the day.
You call Kate and because I also have promising know which also contributes to for out like that became a whole expectation in my life. It's like I never got to give myself permission to go. What if you just got graded this or like whatever? Everybody around me also also saw it, they all saw, they all recognize that, they all noticed it. And so the expectation just became Kate, will give and give and give and give and give and give and give and give and give of herself.
And then that's where like the burnout comes from was was from that the guy was burdened with glorious purpose in terms of like delivering on that. Expectation of being somebody who is oftentimes very visibly very skilled at things. And that's really hard because of hit it. Stops being about me and like, my relationship to the sing. It becomes my delivering for other people. Because I want them to like me. Hmm. Well, I like you. Thanks.
I like you, no matter what the things are, or how productive you are, right and stuff. See you say that and my brain instantly goes. He's lying. Hmm, like that's not true. Like if I stop being productive even like me anymore. Now fundamentally I think that's probably not true. Like I think you would probably still like me but my brain says like if I like told you tomorrow but I don't want to do podcasts anymore.
Like you would pay be forever. Well can I can I can I speak with Katie's brain for a Short me, that shirt. Well, that's it, that's the end of the episode so the episode Eric shushed my brain, I'm cured the podcast is over, thank you all for being here. I we don't know more podcasts. This is it. This is what am I supposed to unser's days? Okay, I guess we'll keep the podcast. All right saved by that.
Well hey as is now tradition. We have some new patreon It's to think and if you're like, Hey, how do I get on into the sweet song action? All you gotta do is you gotta go to patreon.com/scishow and Finnick West and sign up at whatever level feels right for you. That's it, that's all you got to do. And then we put your name in a song. A song that goes a little something like this. There we go. I'm never going to change the chord progression. It's just this.
That's the only chord progression. I know Kathleen, you're super cool. And also Chelsea, you are. Similarly cool. Oh hey. Hello it's ADHD everything. They got a podcast to their an ADHD Tick-Tock away when the really Don't forget about Moira, which is a really fun word to say. Thank you, Maura and ADHD everything and Chelsea and Kathleen for joining our patreon. Forget I can't forget about your ADHD off everything. Forecasting, forecasting for
kdhe everything. It's the patreon song, it's the patreon song. It happens. Every week and it isn't very long. It's the Patriarchs the console. What the fuck a patreon? Patreon motherfuck. Big tree on Patriot's. Rips a motherfucking patreon song, genres. Everybody. That's it for us this week here at infinite Quest. But hey, from all of us we really appreciate you listening.
So until next week, remember to take a drink water, maybe take your meds, maybe you just snack, but always be kind to yourself and remember to be kind to others and remember that we love you. We'll see you next week. Bye.