I'm tired, you're tired, tired. I'm tired, too. It's okay. It's been a long week. Yeah, dude. It really has been a long couple decades. It was a couple of that. Very quietly. Pick up my microphone, put it back down. Nobody noticed, it's fine. It was good. I was truly slouch on the desk and then I decided that I didn't want to touch on the desk but now we know work. I'm like I'm in that moment.
Of like like it's too hot but it's too cold at the same time and everything hurts and I'm dying. Please help. I'm sorry. Bubs. You want some ice water? We got ice water. Yeah, I do. Actually. Yeah, there it is. Special thanks to Brian for doing our Foley work this week. I really appreciate that. You put some Nails in a tin can, hi everybody. Its Katie asaurus the siloed, it's me a good and welcome back to infinite.
Quest Quest today's episode We are continuing our series Where We complain about the 1880s, a Criterion of complaining, what about stuff with Katie and Eric, another working title. It's a podcast. I feel like it was on the list too far away. I was going to get my ukulele. I feel like that's like a really good like theme song. Okay, Tina complain about stuff complaining about stuff with Katie and Eric that is pretty funny that shit.
That should be like a bonus Saturday episode like 50 minutes long, like a little segment that we thought we can have like a segment where we just like, you know, what really great it could be like, you know what really grinds my gears. Yeah, we like that. But you know what really gets my noodles in a nut. Shut up to people, come to the twitch streams. You get that joke Odie. These. Oh geez. This week we are an episode or episode. We are on criteria 3 and this is an interesting one.
Katie, are we on three? I thought we were on for around 30, we run fourth episode of this because the first one was pitching me actually just piss. You just, yeah. Okay. This one is an interesting one because it shows, That they're trying like they take in this one. It seems like they've taken a lot of what we've said in previous episodes on this into
account in their language criteria. 30k criteria 3, hit me with a dog often does not seem to listen when spoken to directly Not often, doesn't listen to in spoken often. Doesn't seem to listen, I like that, which I really like this is the first one that I'm okay with. Yeah, I'm really into that. Like, yeah, it does require good pass pass. Well, no more. Now I'm mad because I feel like I blew my perfect story for that on Tuesday. Oh yeah.
Well, you know some way better story for that it for this episode. Well, you know damn it. Maybe you go back and listen to two. These episode but just pretend that we're talking about this one. Okay, thank you. Well, I think I would like to see that kind of amendment made to a lot of the other one. I bet it's gonna happen. I like honestly, I bet March. Yeah, I'm I'm hoping. I mean, the amendment if it wasn't clear was the word
seemed. Yeah. I think that that completely changes the whole thing because that's exactly what we talked about. Last is exactly talking about that stuff. That's right. Yeah. Do you want to just like luck that into the other one and just
go straight to for he ran? Well I mean because the thing is just like my Attention might not look like you're paying attention, but it doesn't mean that I'm not paying attention and I wish fucking like it's not hard to teach that is not hard to teach like just day one, a teacher School. Hey, teachers, you might have a kid who's a doodlin. Just a lot of doodle. Oh yeah, I'll just leave them alone because you're fine. You'll survive your little fucking teacher feelings. Won't get hurt.
Everybody can move on. Well, I think I mean I wouldn't so spicy about it. Shit. I wouldn't be surprised if that. If the word seemed is in there in direct response to everything that we just complained about on Tuesday's episode. You know they changed it because of us because of us besides, it's been 48 hours, Wednesday. They adjust the DSM for us. My friend. Our podcast is so important but I would like to see what how it
does. However, assume a measure of objectivity in the person answering that question. If If the, if there's a, if this survey is being taken, or if these sheets and one are being filled out by a person, talking about another person, like a teacher about a student, a parent about a child? Yeah, it does. Require I think require a lot of objectivity on their part because They would have to acknowledge that. There's a chance that their perception is wrong.
Yeah. You know, like they might seem like they're not but I acknowledge that they could be. Yeah, well, but maybe that's not that. He's maybe it, maybe it's a bigger net. Maybe it catches, both parents /, teachers /, co-workers that do acknowledge that they might be wrong. It might just seem like they're not paying attention. When in fact they are but also the people who are dumb, who Who
just believed that. Of course, their assumption is correct because they're a version of reality is the only correct one. Yeah. Therefore if they seem like they're not paying attention, they must not be. Those people would also answer that question often or five. Yes, it happens out. Nearly nearly constantly, you know, for the person as well. Does it make sense? Yeah. Like it's catching both of those people. Yeah, I also think that like, I'm just going to say it like, I
think. I get really hung up on the Linguistics because like that's my whole thing is like Shakespeare specifically chose those words? And so I think this is like one where they actually like linguistically, they are like they're being I don't say sneaky but they're definitely being I think more inclusive than in some of the other ones, you know that. Like it's just it's I think that's it's honestly, the seems like it's just it's Pivotal. Yeah, it really is.
You know how do you mean an inclusive? Because I mean literally exactly what you said like I think it can say. I truly believe that my kid isn't paying attention, or it looks like my kid isn't paying attention, but maybe they are but externally, it seems. Yeah, I mean, I think that's badass. I've literally just that the same thing you did.
So no, I mean, I really think it's badass especially like, If you were, if you were to be a parent or teacher or co-worker, taking this survey about another person and your as into the Linguistics of it, as you are and it's let's say it said, often does not pay attention when spoken to directly. If like, if it were you, you might think. Well certainly it looks like they're not paying attention. Yeah, but that's just my perspective.
You know what the hell do? I know like the more, the more Well, this because I know people from, like my experience of like constantly getting in trouble as a kid for like not looking like I'm paying attention and it's like no bitch. I've already read the entire textbook. I'm bored look like in their pay attention or look like a big attention. You get to pick one. Hey, sorry. I used to do this thing.
Where I would take like, the the textbook which I had already read and I would put another book like rate like here and I'm like, hold it up with my tummy. So it would be like balance between like the desk and my tongue. And I would like look down and then it would look. Like I was reading the textbook but I was actually reading another book. I used to get in trouble for that shit all the time. Well, here's the thing I got in trouble for the most in school was sneaking other books under
the desk. Why it was like a whole thing? Well, I got in trouble for bringing an exacto knife to school. Because I was page-by-page carving out an iPod shaped hole my books, so that I could put my iPod in there and like, watch videos. They're really funny. It was pretty fun. That's a relief. I mean, what's funny is they found the exact amount but they didn't find the book so I got to finish the book. That's good and it worked. I also found out that the little scroll wheels on iPods Works
through duct tape. So if you put duct tape because it would fall out, oh yeah. And so I put a little duct tape thing on there so that it would stay in there and it could still scroll on the scroll wheel through the duct tape. I like how we just told very similar but very different sources. Like I used to read books while reading the other book at the same time, there's like I carved a hole. In mind for my iPod. Well, it's because all I need is two people in this world.
It's because well it does this that my version of school worked until we started being expected to read things that we didn't discuss in class sure. You know when it was just like the only way you're going to hear about this is if you do the assigned reading, but before then it was just like if I doodled and listened in class. It was just like Bing Bang.
Boom done. Yeah. And I was fine. Like my test scores were always really high, but my homework grades were always garbage because ice actually, I just said this. I never said this sentence before, but I said it to my great, aunt, Jackie, who is the last surviving member of that generation of my family, she's 90 years old but she's just massively fucking well-educated red. Like the probably the most well-read person I've ever met.
She's had more time than use. I was gonna say Time is like Seattle, a huge head, start on you, but she, but she dropped out of college because she was going to college for computer science. Wait, I would have been in the I don't know early 60s late 50s as a woman and so she was like, nope, fuck all this bullshit. Sexism bullshit, I will learn
this on my own. So anyways, I said, I, I said offhand to her like, oh, I dropped out of college to because I love Learning. I just hate having to prove it to some jackass like and that's what I always hated was like, I loved learning. Learning is my favorite thing to do of all time. What I hated was having to prove it to some jackass. Like we would sit in class and the teacher would be like two plus two equals four and it's like okay and then they would go around the room.
Feel like what is two plus two equal for good job, right? Gold star was to muster for good job gold star. Here's a homework worksheet, do it tonight and bring it back tomorrow. And it's just every question is two plus two equals question mark and it's like, I'm not going to, this is degrading. This is fucking degrading, man. I'm not gonna do this, meanwhile. I'm like, have you considered wrapping all of your self-worth and self-esteem in the grade that you get from that
assignment? Pro tip do that, it's very healthy. And then that way, when you stop getting graded because you've graduated, you'll have nothing to wrap yourself worth up. And, and it's really fun. It's really fun. Really fun. Way to live your life. Eric, it's good.
Oof Everything is a competition that I must win at all costs a tree because I think, honestly, I think one of the reasons that I didn't do assignments and didn't do reading is because I did wrap my self-worth up into how well I did them. And if I didn't do them that I never opened that door and chat. That's that's a valid strategy. No.
I mean it's this is this is still the case for me now it was in my careers and in my just life in general but I would never like, do the outside reading or do the dumb fucking worksheets? That they Would have us do because even still I could do easily as well as everybody else without having done any of that shit. Yeah, but that would stand to reason that if I did do the reading, then, would I be doing like way better? You know? And I never wanted to find out
the actual answer that question. Like what if I did do all the stuff and I wasn't as brilliant as I thought I was going to be so I just would never answer that. Question was the same thing with cooking like what if I did read all the books on cooking and read into the history on my craft and all that stuff. What, you know, what, if I'm still not very good. Even then, you know what, if I'm still just passable, like, I am now and I never wanted to answer
that question, so I didn't. You are the best cook? I know. So. Well, this is so I mean, I'm very biased in the, what the kingdom of the blind. The one-eyed man is King is listen, I like your food. Thank you. You're welcome. I would eat at your restaurant. Well, thank you very much. It's fine that was thing. But yeah, I don't worry the fuck. Are you talking about the Third? The third criteria, but it's
pretty good listener. We've been very specific that these are spring boards and sometimes we'll just talk about other stuff and that's okay, too. Yeah, yeah. Also, how much time do we have? Like, we were in courting for like an hour? We're Going For 10-12 minutes. That's not true. It's true. Really looking at the ticker? Yeah. 12 minutes. He says, my time pretty cool. Right ever realize. How about my time playing this is? Do you know what I'm doing in Minecraft? Now?
What? Just as just a springboard. Fine. Somebody brought up in On my twitch stream today, you know, so on my on my twitch stream, dear listener, if you don't come to them, what are you doing? Come on, come on, pushing amazing. Good time. We talk about stuff. Sometimes it's serious. Sometimes it's whimsical who knows and the plugs are songs, but either way on those twitch streams, you can donate bits. Each bit is like a Cent and as a
source of you, are you going B? And I've rigged up a bunch of stuff such that certainly ENT See ENT. I thought you were talking about like perfume and I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? That's not what you're doing. Oh gee, I was so confused era, they're making like those, you know, those Glade plugins things. Yeah, they're making those but they activate like with your mind, you know, they're like neurologically activated, you know, makes sense if you think
about it, fuck you. Anyways if you don't admit he's a little Minecraft sheep or Mob, or animal will drop. And then I'm all depends on what B you donated. Anyways, so many my twitch streamers like, hey, on the Quest Craft Server. What if you had like, all of us go in front of a green screen. And then, when we're in your Twitch streams, we could like, do anything to have our, that's such a good idea, such a good fucking idea.
And so I'm starting. I'm building a building in Minecraft, in the commercial District, that's called student Studio. Googly, eye, Studio Ghibli, but it's like a big Film Studio. Green screens for a fun. That's really fun. It's worth much. Stupid. Yeah, did you hear about that actress? That got stabbed, like Reese, something or other? Witherspoon. No, with a knife. Wow, I don't, I don't, I'm sorry. I hear you so much. So this is the first one where we had to, like Vamp for time.
Which I feel like is a good is a good indicator that it's a. It's a pretty okay. Well, it's a pretty okay with themes. Well, what else would you like to see in? Like let's say your dream DSM. Well, I do want to point out that's like that's right. Yes LT says Christ. That's the nerdiest. Thing I've ever said in my life, but like, given that we're not. Hey girl, why lay back? Tell me about your first. Yeah, I'm finished. What do you think? What do you want to hear in those pages?
Girl, it's gonna be cool, girl, but given that we're not like I would like comma C Brown level experts on ADHD and ultimately we're just yeah, we're some fucking schmoes. I'm fucking schmoes. But still Even still.
What would you like to see? I would like to see you rejection sensitivity addressed even if it's even if it is, just like, Because I like, I mean, I have to try to really carefully because again, I'm not, I'm just some fucking smell but I like I mean I as somebody who lives with the effects of rejection sensitivity like holy shit is real. Like it is fucking real and if you look at the statistics you know like Berkeley is like 95% of people with ADHD, you know.
Like another people are like 90s 80s like it's always like exceptionally high but it's It's hard because it's like is it a conversation about us symptomatic element of ADHD? Or is it a symptomatic element of living with ADHD and a society in which it is not? Okay? Like we re talking about on toots like oh like pacing around in the back of the room. Yeah. Like where it's like not okay to do that.
And so like we become traumatized and that you know the rejection sensitivity is just a collection of trauma symptoms, you know? yeah, and so I think Inuk not like some kind of acknowledgement about that. I think that would be cool because that's a big one. I also think I mean it's hard because it's like we were talking about when we started this series is like eating
disorders. Are not a criteria for having ADHD but they are incredibly common in people with ADHD like the same was like addiction and so it's like I don't want to be like, you know, isn't an addict is like a criteria for ADHD because that's not what I'm saying. But like some kind of acknowledgement about like, The the incredibly high comorbidities in terms of like, sleep difficulties and addiction issues.
I think that would be, I think that would be good, but I just, I just, I'm honestly, like, I will, I will, I think it's important to say when you don't know something, but I don't know how to do that, because I'm not that kind of doctor. I just played one on sot enough. Yeah. I think I think we're in an interesting phase with it, because did he SM is originally for for clinicians for
professionals. Yeah. Like it's a perfect it was a book that doctors had on their shelf like you ain't my grubby little hands on it. Well will never be is the internet. Anybody can read it at any time and fucking complain about it. Like we know what we're talking about which isn't necessarily a
bad thing but it's just a thing. And so for example, like what I would like to see is acknowledgement that like Well, pretty much exactly what you said, just just acknowledging that there's often other shit that comes with it. Eh see, that isn't directly related to the diagnosed, which they did do though. Like, I'm going to correct myself because they did. Do that in the consensus statement. Yeah, because that's the thing is because I feel like one of the like, because the DSM is for
like diagnostic. Yes. Literally this the diagnostic and statistical manual. Yeah. And so, like the DSM is for diagnosing, but then the consensus statement was like, but also here's Everything else that we know about it like we can concretely prove. And so there was a lot of conversation in the consensus statement that's like addiction and and right, you know, eating disorders and rejection sensitivity, and that kind of stuff.
But I mean hot take. I do think we're talking sensitivity should just be a criteria whether or not they acknowledge it as like a separate thing or if they just say, like trauma-based responses, to Rich, perceived rejection, but I think it should be linking fucking nine. Five percent because you don't have to have all fucking a right? And it's like but that's like a huge part of it for a lot of people especially in conversation with executive dysfunction.
Yeah, I mean, I saw a spicy hot Heart, Take Heart. Take was it? I think. Yeah, as the DSM in this, this also might just be us because of what we do for a living. Like, I've been so close to it. Sorry. We're yes, we're really close to you. So, so I'm maybe I'm sensing the changing of winds that aren't actually there. They're just there in the communities that we run in.
But it seems like the DSM is becoming more and more used by non-professionals people who just want to look some shit up, which is fucking great, but which makes me inclined to say they should have more resources in there for, you know, hey, if you testifies with ADHD, just know you're much more prone to addiction. You're more prone. To car accidents, you're more prone to eating disorders but that's all stuff that's like after you Diagnosed you go by the book and you read up more on it.
You know. It's like none of that information that exists today. Oh yes. Why would you bring up a book that could there be? No we're not supposed to bring out of that supposed to talk about. Okay we're definitely not writing a book shut up. Nope shut up. Its that's just for fake Sony made the I know where you heard this jokes. It's a rumor.
There's no if the quest book coming out that's just a rumor but Sergeant for example like saying in the cabinet we just had a meeting today was very exciting. We've talked about the book of the fleet has been willing are doing. This is not his but was it? Oh, so like putting something about rejection sense of dysphoria or the higher likelihood of having problems with addiction. If you have ADHD, like, putting that stuff in the DSM entry for ADHD does not help professionals
diagnose. This are maybe I mean I'm not a professional like I'm what I'm saying is ultimately, that's the function of the book is to health professionals diagnosed. So would it be helpful to professionals to have that stuff
in the DSM? I mean, they're professionals so they already know that shit well, but, you know, the assembly official thing, you know, I think the rejection sensitivity one would because I think that there are some people to wear like that is their most unlivable symptom, you know. But like where is with like addiction or eating disorders or something like that. That's like a specific.
Other thing that you are dealing with that is made much more challenging by having ADHD like the propensity for having it or not. Not, you know it's like are you statistically more likely to get bronchitis you know like it's a different thing but it's like you might have to handle it differently. I have to remember to take my meds or, you know, whatever the fuck. And it also like there's so many, how does this?
There's so many thing presentations of ADHD else is like behavior that presents itself with ADHD that could very well be because of something else because of anxiety or because of depression. Yeah. Because of OCD like, totally. And the idea is that, The symptom lists in the DSM are specific enough that you can say. Oh, it is this and not this even though there's a big Venn diagram, they're like, yeah, because, you know, people who have ADHD do this, but people
with anxiety, don't do that. Therefore, we can tell that if they have that then it must be ADHD and anxiety. Yeah, a great Tick-Tock account. I was, I was debating that saying their name, but I'm realizing, they said it in a tick tock, so I can quote the wrong, because it's already public. But DJ P. JM D on. On Tick-Tock who's going to be
in the podcast. I just keep forgetting to fucking schedule it because conventions and shit but he's a doctor like a like a real ass motherfucking doctor specializing in a specializing in ADHD coat and all real doctor. And he when he talks about rejection sense of dysphoria. He's talked before about how if he's trying to, you know, narrow stuff down like perhaps it's anxiety. Perhaps so City.
Who knows moving in closer. He says, he often looks for rejected sensitive sensitive dysphoria, As a way of narrowing it down to ADHD, which I found is really interesting. So and we're in which is speaks to my point of would having an
entry about RSD in the DSM. Help people do to help professionals diagnose ADHD perhaps it would I'd love to we should we should have like a lot of professional people on the podcast before the DSM comes out just so they could like speculate wildly oh yeah about what we should do like a March Madness but like that. She has some symptoms. Oh my God. Like what? DSM symptoms? You think? We're going to stay where she will be.
Just make it like really stupid and weird be great we could have, we could have Leslie PSI D and Daleks he jpj Alex dr. Anna just have them all come in Riyadh and be like what do you think get in March Madness? Pull. What would you like to say? That would be. That would be really fun. I'll start blasting out some some some some messages that's like really got me. Really good. Do you want to be in our March Madness? I'm gonna spend this roster.
So what do you what do you call this brackets? Brackets. March Madness bracket. I'm about the DSM criteria. That's so silly. We really should. I mean that would be really good. I mean I was I mean that just because that would be fun. But like a lot of these things I think part of my frustration with with the DSM in general is that I'm just not qualified to have real to have a put a lot of weight behind my own opinion. Yeah.
Like I think I've always not really cared very much about what I think about stuff which is ironic cause I have a fucking podcast. We talk about anything about stuff but that's because other people said they wanted. To hear it. I wasn't just assuming but I've never really cared what I think about specific, things like that. Because what do I know?
Like I'm going to defer to the people that know more than me, so it's kind of frustrating because it's something that's so like important to me and dear to me, that people be able to be diagnosed accurately and have a diagram and diagnosis be accessible to people. But ultimately I'm not a doctor and so I can't say that. That criteria is bad. I can say what I don't like about it and perhaps whatever whatever but I can't specifically safe.
For these clinical reasons, that should be different. Yeah. That frustrates me? Yeah, I get that. But, you know, I mean that makes total sense where you going to do, what are you gonna do when you go to do anyways we have what time is it is about. It's about that but it's about that time Jordan to the patreon song. Oh sure. Oh yeah. Alright stay tuned for the patreon song. What's the patreon song?
Stay tuned and we'll tell you. Or don't and don't ever find out live a life of mystery and confusion. That's, that's, that's the podcast equivalent to putting watch to the end as the caption of right Tick-Tock. You won't believe what happens at the end of this podcast. So that's it for this episode. That's was a me Andre one that was a that was a that was a whole move here. Like it was the shares. The chair. I normally sit in isn't another room and so on.
I have to stand here like a weirdo in front of the microphone. It's cool. Well no you got your foot up your like Johnny Cash I do it really Johnny Cash. Very you like a brother were valve Ives. I am a man of constant sorrow. That's exactly right. Katie is exactly how that song. So how is your, how is it to sell your soul to the devil is pretty good out there. Yeah, I sold my soul to the devil at the crossroads to play the ukulele but he got
distracted halfway through. So that's why I only know, three chords, he had to gonna go. So what does he miss McConnell needed? Something, mentioned Mitch McConnell. Now, the rest of my days gonna suck, he was a really funny joke.
So does he get the soul of like, Your foot only or like your soul for a period of time maybe it's myself really good afternoon but I don't really feel like these three chords like worse and Eternity. Yeah no don't I don't even know how to do the cool like like you know when blankety blank flanks. Yeah hey I want we s. Do we get That's good sweets, pretty good. That's really, that's really good. I messed it up because I got nervous because you were looking at me.
Well, it so you might be wondering why I sold my soul to the devil at the crossroads to learn how to play the ukulele. It's because every week we do a patreon song and so if you are interested in supporting our mission of advocacy and education for mental health and neuro Divergence e and inclusivity. Oh you can go on over to tree on.com slash infinite Quest and you can sign up. We're also very honored to let you know that we have been officially appointed patreon ambassadors.
Oh, really? Yeah. Cool. Yeah. I got pretty sure. I told you that you probably need to get like a cool stately pin or so. Yeah, we have like a little bitch baby because they're so impressed with our community and how we've grown in just a year. And so thank you all so much for being part of that adventure with us. But this week, we have three New people to think. I live breathe and the shallon Aaron's Thinking, free, and Michelle and Aaron.
We love you, but we're not staring in a weird way. In a weird way. We just want to thank you. Breathe for being one of our new patrons three. That was good. That's good. You gotta wake up. I wanna thank you, breathe, especially, and YouTube, Michelle. I hope you don't burn in hell. Let me let Connell I was going to say, hey Michelle, I want you to know that even though I sold my soul, it's for you Michelle. That I'm going to hell when I
die eats these chords. This is the number of Robert Johnson jokes that we have made a lot of Robert Gibbs like a weird number of Robert Johnson anyway. Thank you. Erin. You're pretty T cool air and I think you're cool. It's glaring to me that you're cool. Clarence. That was good. Thank you Bree and Michelle and Aaron and the rest of our patreon family for supporting us week after week. I don't know. I went down. So, whoa, I've had a lot of coffee.
We gotta end this. What are we gonna do? We gotta end this. Sometimes you start a thing without realizing how you're gonna finish it. Like when you said patreon family, you clearly were about to say patreon but you realized member of the patreon is it called a big tree on? It's called a patron but that's not enough syllables so much I tried to bring weirdly good at these and I don't know how to feel that good every everybody from all of us here at infinite Quest.
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