Hey everybody, it's me Katie asaurus and welcome back to infinite Quest. Before we begin this week's episode Eric and I have a favor to ask all of you infinite Quest started out as a weird experiment between two new friends and we had no idea where it was going to lead. This is a true story the week that we launched. Infinite Quest 17 people listened to episode one and we We're so excited that that many people wanted to listen to our
podcast. Last week we posted our episode with M Schultz of and that's why we drink and in less than an hour, 1700 people had listened to infant bust. We are so humbled and we are going to cry now. We are so humbled, and we are so grateful for the support of this community. And it really is that we have created a community of thousands of people who see the importance and value of Mental Health. Advocacy and education. Okay. So this is the part where we're
going to ask you for that favor. We need your help to spread the word about infinite quest in podcast.
Lee and word of mouth is still an incredibly effective way of building an audience and we have literally been building our audience one person at a time and so anytime you can tweet about us or share us on social media posts about us on Reddit Facebook whatever it really really helps us out another really fast and easy way that you can help us is just by Going to your podcast listening venue of choice and leaving us a
review. Lastly, if you are interested in able and supporting infinite Quest mission of education and advocacy financially, you can visit us at patreon.com slash infinite Quest, probably going to cry when I say this next part. But Eric and I are dangerously close to being able to say that infinite Quest and educating and advocating for mental health is our full-time job, that is an extraordinary feeling and we feel so lucky.
And so Us to be here. So anything you can do to bring more people to infinite quest to let people know that we exist. We would be infinitely, infinitely grateful for the help. And with that here's an episode about sex by actually went to Juilliard for fully work so oh really cool. I can also make it sound like I'm walking down the stairs. I can make it sound like I'm bored real quickly. This message came for you. It's my middle finger is the audio medium so they can't see
that. I'm flipping you off, but I am. Hi everybody. Welcome back to infinite class time. Hideous, or I'm a goob. And so, this week's episode is a continuation of the Kink spectacular that we did earlier. If you have Listen to that episode. You should because there's some stances little prequel. Yeah. We're going to say a lot of things like like we talked about in the last episode and I don't. So if you don't know, if you didn't listen to that one, they're going to be missing out.
But once again, we just wanted a very quickly very quickly, just sort of put a little lead Baseball Hall of Fame astrak--. If you are our parents, if you know, us in real life, or if you're just frankly, uncomfortable, listening to People talk about sex which is totally valid. We're going to have a very Frank conversation about sex and kink today. So if you don't want to listen to that, go listen to the Nevermore episode again because
I'm real proud of that one. And there's just, there's no sex now that now that not about a sex to be found, there was a reason I didn't listen and there's no sex and ever more cool. Yeah. There's there is a swear in the next one. But so is there really? There's a couple of squares. Yeah but there's they're still there. Implied sex, you're doing the the bridge certain. I am thing where you consolidate all of it into one. Yes, I'm waiting for episode 4 and then nothing but jizzing on
blankets far as the eye can see. But shocking amount of blankets is to two wieners. Yes, lots of dings Lobby, snakey wieners like a, like, a drain snake. So anyway, mom if you're listening, maybe don't that's all. Oh, that's all we wanted to say. So anyways, I believe in the last episode we talked about Samuel Hughes has five stages of Kink. We did do that Kink Kink explosion. Kink identity process, I guess which is one early encounters. So that's generally. If they can just go ahead and
listen to the episode her. Well, I'm just gonna go back to the last episode. We're not going to do it again. Go, listen, we, that's how we get them for use. We get them views. Okay cool. But if early encounters a situation where the self-evaluation finding others Exploration with others is really good. Thanks. There you go, feel very educated on Samuel Hughes now. All right, fine. So, in that case, I'm just going to continue right where we left off in the last episode.
Okay, in the last episode, where we talked about Kink you teaser trailer, do you said that you wanted to bring up a whole new topic? What was the topic that you wanted to bring up? Well, so this is a kind of an eye It's a video on Tick-Tock of its titled every podcast ever.
And it's a guy just saying this is really important to talk about and I think it needs to be taught and nobody really talks about it. So I'm really glad that we're talking about it because I think nobody taught there's such a stigma and you never actually says anything. And so, every time I start talking, I'm secretly worried.
I feel bad. I've know exactly that video that you're thinking about and I think about that today, and thank you for sharing that with me, that being said, I want, that's really important that we talk about that. It's really when we talk about intersectionality and Um, Synergy is just very just weird. It's these Converse, these dialogues are just necessary. Oh yeah.
Absolutely well. So and at the very end the last episode I brought up the fact that so I'ma switch which basically means I get I enjoy being both dominant and submissive depending on the the day sometimes at the same time, sometimes at the same time, especially when it's with 288 see people, it's like two seconds of something to Second. It gets rough. It gets rough. Then I then I tighten your apron strap and it's just like a
switch. Excuse me, I didn't come here to be personally, attacked my own podcast if you guys haven't seen the video no we haven't released that video. There is actual footage of Eric accidentally topping me during the middle of what is not at all? Supposed to be making bread, we're fucking this is we fight me or doing an episode of ADHD kitchen, which is also something that we haven't really said the public yet.
So surprised that's the thing. And he just he was like no put your apron on better and it's just it got real hot. This is very embarrassing. So anyways I planted the last episode I talked about how when I'm submissive, it helps my ADHD a lot because my brain completely shuts off and I have relinquished control consensually in the scene. And I don't have to decide, you know, where to put my arms
because they're restrained. I don't have to worry about what I'm looking at because it can't see like I do I have to worry about strange noises because I can't hear sensory. Deprivation is a enjoy being topping. Being dominant also very much helps my ADHD. And why? That is I have no, I have some thoughts, but I don't know, excited. I feel like you're going to have a podcast break. I might have a by Gasper. I really thought I was gonna have a podcast breakthrough last time and I didn't.
So I'm owed. So I'm excited. Gotcha, cool. Well, so, It helped beings being dominant helps my ADHD. Because my again, I don't like I feel bad bringing this up because I'm not going to give some great but perhaps because my motivations are not at all. In question, I am not wondering what I should be doing. Like I'm not thinking like oh we shouldn't be doing this, we should be so doing something else or I have work to do or that kind of thing. I am only doing service to you.
I'm trying to give you the best experience possible and the Better. I know you and know your Kink stuff, your kinks I guess would be the noun form of that the more clear in my head, what I can be doing and I get into sort of like a honestly, like an artistic Flow State.
Where like, I mean, you are an artist an artiste if you will well, like, you know, if you, if, if an art, it's a painter's doing a painting, and they put ass like an abstract painting, put a splash of red somewhere, like, it's, they probably weren't just disrespecting. Deciding like ooh, it needs to be in exactly this vocation and living in what kind of are you
doing? It's just they just that's what they feel like at the time and when I'm topping, I get into that state where the scene itself because this is so my God's most pretentious thing you've ever said it becomes the canvas on which I'm painting. And so I'm my brain is perhaps equally quote unquote turned off, because it has now become like a program, that is just running.
I'm just like in the flow of the scene in the same way that I am when I'm subbing, it's just now it's not, I don't know, I'm not sacrificing my Mobility or my senses to you. I'm sacrificing my I guess my motivations are my autonomy to you even though you're submissive you're holding the power because you're controlling what I'm doing in a way although it's not your decision. What I do, what I'm doing is always for a very Very unambiguous function function.
You're such a service tap. You're like the most touristy service time ever. It is charming. But like, yeah. And I mean I think that she was like you keep apologizing for like not having like advice but I think like, one of the reasons why we set out to do these episodes is because we just want to have conversations to hopefully maybe make it easier for people to have conversations of their own. So I don't necessarily feel like You have to have any brilliant insights.
What we're trying to accomplish is like hey if you want to sit down with your significant other or others and say hey this is something that we want to explore whatever, like I think it's important to just hear the logistical conversations that happen between two people with ADHD because like, there are a lot of considerations that need to be made when you're talking about neurodivergent. See, absolutely. Do you find that when you're you as a, you are also a switch.
I am also a switch and you've said that, you you already HD has helped but when you're submissive because your brain turns off. Yeah. Do you feel that your ADHD is alleviated or helped or whatever term you want to use when you're topping? And if so, do you have any ideas as to why? Or why not? Do you know, I'm gonna be really honest. My answer is no, my answer is
absolutely. No, I think they're like, I don't think my ADHD, Helps my top but I also topping but I also don't think it's like necessarily hindered and like one of the questions I get asked so often. So often. I'm Tick-Tock is like, well, I have ADHD, can I be a dumb? And I'm like yes, fucking obviously you can be a Dom like fucking obviously, you can be a top. But there seems to be, I think this incorrect assumption that to be a top. You have to Be able to enter that flow State.
You have to be able to just like into it right now. If am I fucking make outlines I'm not joking. Like I have a fucking like little book report formatted on my phone. That's like okay, like I want to do this and I want to do this and then after this, I'm going to do this. And so for me, like it, Topping dong whatever you want to call. It doesn't necessarily help my ADHD the same way that, like, my brain turns off when I'm submissive Aang speaks method of submitting some.
So if I just don't like the terms, I'll try to avoid it as much as I can because I hate that because I'm Umbra. Um, but I think that like you it helps me To do something else. It's a type of service. It's a type of making my partner ensuring that my partner has a good time. Has a safe time, has a healthy time and that is really important to me. And so, like, for me, like, that's kind of more of what it shows up as, huh. I'm also just realizing that when I think of like Helping my
ADHD. I often assume. That I'm referring to, it's subcision. Subscribe that I'm referring to its subsiding, hmm. It becoming less, you know, bad or prevalent or whatever. And I'm just realizing that a lot of activities when I say that it helps my ADHD. I'm not necessarily saying that, it's makes it less prevalent or makes it go away a little bit. I'm just meaning, it's less of a problem. And so I'm thinking when I'm so Missive.
It helps my ADHD by making it subside by making it sort of go away because there just isn't enough. Yeah, there's a diversity of stimulus. Such that my brain can do. It's bouncing off the walls thing, but my ADHD can also be quote helped by putting it in situations where it's either useful or comfortable. For example, when I'm tinkering, for example, Katie, I'm a tinker. I like, I like glue and stuff together. Now, and stuff together, and duct tape, and Coffee, stirrers, baby.
I just got really excited for the robot puppet. I'm building, I'm just realizing. That's what I'm gonna do after you finish recording. Beautiful. Thank you. Um, oh gosh, I lost it. Wait, now, I got it. I come back. I got it. Oh, what I'm doing? Those things? I think of those things as quote, helping my ADHD, but not by making it subside, but by making it comfortable and
flourish. Because now the fact that mime having a million different ideas at once and thinking of a million different ways of doing something is a Actually very beneficial, and I'm just realizing that might be the same dichotomy between top and bottom rows. When I'm topping, the fact that I'm having a million different ideas, allows me to approach a scene from a bunch of different angles. And then when the right one, well, the quote unquote, right? Yeah.
The one you choose. The one I choose comes up it like, is brighter than the other ones. It's more. So it's not. I'm not just making a decision in a hoping. It's right. I'm comparing it to a million different other things that have already come up. And it just for some reason stands Out Among the other ones. And then that's the thing that I do.
Which is I mean I think in some ways like I don't want to make too much of a generalization but you know ADHD people are often thought of as being very creative and I think that perhaps might be somewhat of a mechanic that exists sort of under the hood that when we have an a weird creative idea for a painting or something. It's it's we're not just designing one painting, we're designing a million. And this one stood out. And so perhaps in a king seen
that same Dynamic is at play. I'm just, I'm a little bit thrilled at like the realization that when I'm referring to helping my ADHD. There's wow. Oh God. Okay Park s break through this. That's so weird one because I know but we'll just, we gets asked so much because of our line of work. Like, how do I basically help me with my ADHD? And I've noticed that, Those usually fall into two formats one. How do I make it go away and two? How do I make it comfortable
news? And I think It's not it's not an either/or thing in terms of what you, how you want to design your life. It's not like I either have to make my life completely suited to my ADHD, such to make it comfortable and useful or make it completely go away. And I think kink in a lot of ways, is a microcosm of a bunch of stuff of life. I'm just trying to avoid saying that because it's kind of pretentious, but, but Kink is,
is in a lot of ways. Exactly that microcosm and the difference between sobbing and dominance subbing makes me okay with my ADHD because it alleviates it dominating helps with my ADHD because it makes it useful. And there's a lot of this realizing that applies to a lot of different things. Yeah, namely coffee, stirrers no ice. Yeah, tight. Oh, I had a question for you. It was Oh yeah. There any skills that you've learned from Kink that have
helped you with your nerd? Emergency and I don't mean skills necessarily just technical skills, like tying knots. I was just, I was like, if anybody needs a fucking first, mate, I can. Fucking sail. A sailboat, man. So, I mean, literal technical skills. But also like emotional or, or interpersonal skills? Yeah, I mean, oh God. Like, there's so many, like, I
think. It is funny too because like there are some things that I like I am very good at as a top that I'm really bad at as bottom like that. That's a thing that I need to say right away like because I don't know, like, I feel like I feel like a lot of the time I have this like guilt complex about like Tick-Tock and Tick-Tock lives because people will come on and they'll be like what do I do? And I'm like here's what you do. But do I take my own advice? The answer is no, but like I'm
I'm very good. I think at sort of objectively looking at a situation, you know, things like my partner doesn't believe I promise this point it's going somewhere. Like you know my partner doesn't believe that I have ADHD or you know doesn't accept my neurodivergent see. What do I do? Like that shit to Red Flag. Fucking bail. Like, what are you do it? Like you know, and I'm like I'm so good at like advocating for. Like you have a right to express your needs.
You have a right to ask for the things that you want like do it fucking go right? Get off this live and you know go have that conversation. Where is like in my own life? I constantly struggled ask for what I want and like and I think like if I was being very uncharitable to myself, I would say that it Spock recei, but I think that Pulling a democracy is being charitable to yourself uncharitable.
I'm being uncharitable. But I think if I'm if I'm being honest, what it is is the fact that as a top I desperately desperately want my partners to have a good time and I want them to be safe and I want them to be okay and I want things to be negotiated and clear and prepared and You know, never ever put you or anyone I play with In Harm's Way.
And so like, I'm able to approach like kind of advice giving from that mentality, but in terms of working through a lot of my own issues with asking for what I want and, and articulating, my own needs that comes from a very different place and that comes from a place of myself being rejected by partners and being Hold that I'm not enough and like that kind of thing and so it's kind of like living in these two dualities at all times that I think is really interesting and
it's something that I'm that I'm actively working on I think because of like my top half like you know, like it's because if it was like if I would think, I think if I was like always submissive, I think I would be far less motivated to be healthy in my communication and be healthy in how I approach. Each things but because I know what it's like top. I try to at least work on it. I often fail.
I ought, you know, I often fail, but I try to at least hold that cognizance in my head of like, well, if you were a top, what would you want? What would you need? Well, like, how would you approach this? And I think that is valuable I feel like that was going somewhere else in that I meandered into a completely different point. What the original question was like what are butter skills? What? Yes I'm looking at you for confirmation David.
Oh yeah it was. Well I think we talked about this a bit in the sexuality episode or that the sex episode but it's it's it's a bit ironic that when you're in a submissive situation whether it like you know in vanilla sex there are still there can be still submissive dominant sort of thing going on. Perhaps not as obviously. Um but very often times, when the person who is in who is I guess sort of don't stay in control the situation but
dictating the situation. It is incredibly useful for that person to know what the other person wants to have more information rather than less from the other person. And I think it's a bit ironic that by expressing what for you specifically. The as you just just expressed but a lot of people including myself it can feel selfish to tell the other person what you want specifically when in fact you're doing them a huge favor. Yeah.
And I think in Kink Kink being, you know, such a high octane experience its net. It's absolutely necessary to say, specifically like that hurts to what extent that I'm not comfortable with or. Yeah, not so much that this and so it's good. It's good practice, right? It spread. Cated on the notion of consent and communication, right? Exactly. Which I think is really important.
I mean, well, I mean, I don't know, like, all my skills are like, I don't know, I'm really good with a flogger, like, that's not useful. Like, it's not a useful skill to have except in very specific circumstances. Well, you you read very well like, you know, I mean, obviously, I will tell you, if something, if I need something changed or want something changed.
Yeah. The very often times they don't have to because, you know, No. We're emotionally intellectually and physically, intimate enough that you can tell when my head is moving in a not in a way that indicates that I'm not super awesome about what's happening. Yeah, well I think that also maybe has to do a little bit kind of circling back to to questions like I think some of that has to do with my ADHD being a being helped or being made comfortable in that.
I'm so used to constantly scanning Room. I'm so used to constantly having to like take it a million different things all in once in like process, those like I can sort of, I don't to say cheat code it because that seems very dangerous but like I'm able to like be fully present in the moment and you know paying attention to what I'm doing. But also noticing like okay is his hands grabbing the sheet because he's enjoying himself or because this is too painful.
Or you know his head moving that way, you know, whatever. And so like I'm picking up little details and that kind of
thing. I think that actually I think it makes me a better top because I think a lot of times new new tops, new king stirs people who are sort of like just developing their skills are solely reliant on things like safe words and verbal cues but the real truth of the matter is like people are imperfect And I think that's something that you always have to keep in the back of your head when you're when you're doing Kink stuff, is that people are imperfect and things are going
to go wrong and just relying on a safe. Word can be very dangerous. Especially if your partner is neurodivergent, like I go nonverbal, I go super nonverbal and I go nonverbal much much quicker than one might assume like, if all you knew about me. Right. Like, if you didn't know me, Katie and you knew me as Katie of Soros and you had listened to all of infinite Quest and you'd
seen all of my tic tocs. The impression that you might get is like, oh, this bitch knows what's up, like, she's fucking talker, she's confident, she's articulate. She knows what she's talking about, whatever. But the real fact of the matter is, is that like, especially in Kink especially when I am, submissive, I go nonverbal very early. And like, you know, this because like sometimes we do king stuff together but like, you, you have to be able to notice that kind of stuff.
And you have to be able to, like process that kind of stuff in real time and check in, and make sure that like the person is. Okay and relying, just on the one thing, like, just the safe word that can get that can get really dangerous for. Oh, Divergent people because like stuff can change in an instant in the moment and you need to be astute and Adept enough at playing with that partner to know. OK, his head is moved a little bit weirder than it normally
does. I should check in and I overly check it and I'm sure it's annoying. Sometimes really shut the fuck up. I want to enjoy myself, but I would rather err on the side of like, checking in with you constantly being like, are you okay? Is this okay? Is what like do you need me to stop? Then leave room for that. Of like, I should have asked, but I didn't because I didn't want to ruin the moment. Yeah. Well I also I want to point out
what you have. I think you and I suspect that you and I disagree on something concerning safe words. I don't know exactly what we disagree with about but I suspect that we do. My God hurry and have our first podcast fight? No pocket park is conflict. Yes, maybe no. Well, I think the what your warning about is relying on the safe word or save signal as being the only Indicator of the person that the submissive person at the bottom needing something changed, right?
But I don't think it is. I think it's the failsafe, it's no, no, absolutely not noticing those things. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You may have to clarify for a partner like literal versus figurative, like stuff like that. And that's important to keep in mind because some people are not as Adept at reading body, bodily cues or physical cue. Some people are not as Adept, at think Ed hearing things. Figuratively.
And they need that like literal Miss. I don't if they spelled out but clearly articulated. And I think that is that's absolutely something to keep in mind. Yeah, definitely. I I it's weird being and I think being in Scituate, a situation where words don't mean, what they usually mean is already, it does you situation, it's strange.
And if you have trouble with, you know, we got people who message us about their understanding of like reality is difficult for them which is something that I don't feel qualified to really speak on. But I can imagine that for a person who already has a tenuous grasp with with reality and what's real and what is, you know, truth and what's not being in a situation where please stop doesn't mean please stop that.
That was the goal could be just I mean, just a an overwhelming experience for I think the safe word accounts for that. Yeah these are the safe word is this is the one word that exists completely outside of this scene. Yeah. Everybody did it. You made it to the middle of the episode. You know what that means? Time for a water break. I guess that's a thing. Now cool.
Just real quick. Before we move back into this week's episode, we want to remind you that if you need stylish, cool, affordable glasses, you can get them from Z little.com that Ze, L, o0 elle.com. And if you use code kto that Cati EO, you get 10, Sun off your order, that's not bad. We also want to let you know that we've got some super cool, new merchandise available in our red, bubble shop. So, if you go to red, bubble.com, people / infinite Quest.
I know it's long but it's what it is, get some super cool, new ADHD and merge, really. Crushing these horses were here, I know do a really good job sooner. We can buy some cool stuff that that's it. All right, that's it, I think back to the episode transition. They're getting more expensive. I mean, when we started playing together, I insisted that we had a safe word. You were like, no, well, Eric stop is my safe. Well, I was actually going to want to say stop without me
stopping. Well, that's the thing. I was going to talk about this because I feel like I owe you an apology on the podcast because I want to use it as a learning moment because like, I'm gonna say use it as leverage. Oh no, I really I want to use it as a teaching moment because like I have been in the community for a really fucking long time and so I was I was very Very Cavalier and a time when I shouldn't have and I was, like, love stopping stop.
Because, like, that is for me, I don't do that. Like, I am not a person who goes like, Oh no stop. But like, I mean, don't stop. Like, I don't because like, for me, I don't know if it's like a linguistic thing or a consent thing or something, but something about me and how I operate in seen, stop means stop. No means no, you know what I mean? And so I wrongfully assumed and that was not cool of me like that was not cool with me to do that.
That you would implicitly understand that and have that same mentality and expectation and so I was like we don't need a safe word. My safe word is stopped. And I mean that, like, if I say stop, I mean, fucking stop. Do you know? But like for you and I don't like out you to make you uncomfortable, like, but for you, you wanted the ability to have that kind of I don't even want to say game but that like that flexibility to sort of play Within. No stop not meaning actually
stop hard. Stop hard limit and having that language exists within the scene meant that we had to find an alternative, safe word, but like that figuring that out and getting to that Journey. Like that was a moment where like, I messed up, like, I messed up and I incorrectly just assumed that you would Understand it from the same Viewpoint and I was wrong and so, I'm sorry. Oh well, thank you very much. No, no, no offense was taking or
anything like that. I'm just going to be reconciled are like, oh I know but I mean I think it's important to I wanted to talk about it because I think it's like a really interesting neurodivergent thing. Yeah I would never say stop if I didn't mean stop right like ever which I which like again I'm just points back to the importance of having negotiations and discussions beforehand.
Because if If I didn't know that going in it me, especially since I'm new to King. I may have thought I don't think I would have, but I may have thought. Oh, the person saying stop is just part of it. And I would keep going. Yeah.
And no matter how much you said, which is, I mean, like in my head again due to Kink. So this is all coming from a place of reasonable naivity, like the worst One of the I don't want to be too many superlatives, but one of the worst possible outcomes of a king seen or situations that you could be in is when you really do want this thing to stop as a sub and saying like no I'm serious and the top assume good possibly with with totally good intention.
Assuming that that's part of it and not hearing would you not literally not having language? I think of like when you're having a dream. Yeah. And you try to scream for help but you I mean that's a thing that is happening. Animal do like that's that's what I'm saying is like that is a thing that has happened to me more than once and more than twice is my being in a scene and saying no stop and people not stopping. She's so and so and like I have like permanent physical damage
because of like those instances. And so I think like that is why for me, stop means stop and like, I don't I honestly and I know. God, this is my fucking upsetting trauma podcast Revelation, but I think that's why I tend to never say stuff like no stop. If I don't mean no stop because there have been times in my own Kink experience where no, stop didn't mean, no. Stop even though I wanted it to. And so like, that's why I don't
like that. I don't like it when people are like stop but they actually don't mean. Stop. Huh. Does that make sense? It does. That's really interesting. Yeah, you should talk to somebody more qualified without really interesting.
Yeah. I mean it's just like and it is what it is. Like, it's not like well my trauma but it's just like, I think that is why my head goes to that but like that is something that if you don't know that and I haven't articulated it clearly which I did not with you, which is why I'm bringing it up is like it makes your like, oh well safer to meet ya stop. I also want to bring a week when we were having that specific conversation that you referring to.
Well, it would be, it would have been after the first time we do this thing together or at least after the first time I talked to you, I talked about how like I think one of us joked like we're not a safer because I'm not like, I'm not gonna like, I don't want to use the word but I think we said like, because I ain't no bitch fully in jest, of course.
And I brought up the point that because because of what I wanted from the scene, like I don't want to say for it because I don't want it to go very far and I want to have quite the opposite. Like I want the safe word because I want it to be able to go really, really far, but still have it be safe because I know I have that word and that was because that's because I'm still very much so in an exploratory
phase. Yeah so I didn't perhaps I do want it. To get that far perhaps I don't but I wanted that option in order to safely have that option I needed to say for it. So I wanted to say particularly I mean there's a lot of things that I want to say to the straight men in this who may be listening, but one of them is just that's safe words. Don't mean that you're scared or are a sure sign of or also lack of masculinity know, they're also not the goal. They're also not the goal.
Yeah. They're there until Sarah failsafe. There's something you might may never have to use. Like I don't think I've ever said her safe, you've not. But we have one like, you just because, you know, we have one and so like I'm trying to I'm trying I want to speak on that in masculinity. Out reinforcing that like, masculinity is like inherently
good. But frankly, for a lot of people that is important, maintaining that masculinity for better for worse, that it is important for them to do that. And who am I to judge? That should be driving of your honor. We're gonna let me talk to you - going to do is real and that's a whole separate thing. But basically having a safe word isn't a sign of weakness. It's a sign that it's a sign of your seat back. It's a sign of respect. It's just yeah, it's a sign of respect. Absolutely.
But it's also frankly. Like it's it's it's saying that you think you can take a lot basically, like it's not saying, like I'm afraid. This is gonna hurt too much there for a while. Safe word, you're saying, I want it to be able to hurt a lot while still being safe about it.
Like, I know I it sounds like I'm dancing around something because I frankly am I like, I'm just so nervous about reinforcing masculinity as being like something that is inherently good or necessarily any circumstance, but I do know for a fact Acts that there are men who are curious about Kink and sexuality and stuff, but they're worried about being feminized or being emasculated and I am terrified.
That a man is going to engage in a king seen, in an unsafe way because they think having a safe word is like pussy shit. Pardon my language. But like, I genuinely worried about that and I think, I mean, I've met those people, like, you are not, you are not off base in that.
Know what I mean? Yeah, I apologize for screwing on my language so much but I just yeah I really worried about men and kink because I've met a lot of men who would not practice safe Kink stuff for fear of being perceived as weak or feminine or something like that. Well, I also think it's very interesting that you're saying this as a male switch. Yes. Because like I don't know if I'm gonna have to be the person to break this to you right now in this moment.
But like there is a real stigma against male submissives. Yeah. Like there is like a real, very toxic. Very unhealthy idea that like you are somehow less of a man. If you are interested in submitting, like it's like that's the girls job and it's like not the case. But like it's very and it's very prevalent and it's like, but it's weird too because like the other Side of that, like sort of toxic masculinity coin is like the fetes is that is his relation?
Fuck it of like the femdom and and like and that's been that's the thing that I have to deal with as well as like yes, I am a woman and yes, I am a top but like I don't necessarily want to
top you Chad, you know? And so it's like this weird thing where it's like A lot of guys will objectify women in that way but then at the on the other side like oh you're like a bitch or you're a pussy or whatever because you are a dude and you are submissive and it's like they're both problematic and so many facets and so many aspects that it gets like it's like really frustrating to navigate, I think. Oh, yeah, I was reading you couldn't read.
It was a hilarious joke. Okay I was reading a comment chain on Tick-Tock earlier about somebody made the claim that men are more sexual Lee, their sex drive is greater and then more sexual than women and this woman commented under that saying like perhaps that's to perhaps it's not, but I understand what
you're saying. And I think the reason that a person like you might think that Is because men are in fact just touched start because if you look at like like think of like straight Tick-Tock, so I don't mean to speak for like this, fuck it growing up as a boy and now being what one might call a man because of my age but certainly not because of my
mind. When we touch each other, it's either physically, it's either aggressive or accidental it or, or maybe a high-five, but hugging and and just like Padding somebody on the back or whatever it's feminine and it's bullshit. And you shouldn't do that because man up or whatever the fuck don't fucking cry.
And so the only situations and when a man can receive touch, that's not either violent or accidental is sexual and so that's what we're fucking out for, not to mention all the societal implications, that that's what we're taught to be.
And so, similarly I think being submissive just I think human ins generally seek balance in a certain ways and I think feeling that you need to be dominant all the time and being control and be whatever this understanding of masculinity, you have is trying to be that all the time is fucking exhausting and frankly, unhealthy and I think our bodies crave a balance to that and because Men are treated the only way that we can receive like physical affection is in a sexual situation perhaps.
So to do we believe that that the only way to be acceptably submissive or whatever, not everyone was able to be submissive is in a similar sexual situation, which is where this whole fem dom, like, but Crush my balls kind of things comes. It comes into play because they think the only way that being That submitted can be is in some extreme scene, which is fucking fine to do.
I just I just I worry that there are a lot of men who have this pitch to be submissive they have that they needed to be scratched, perhaps they're like a, you know, a CEO type or some shit. And they have to be managing and, and dominant all the time in call shots or whatever are, you know? Like I said, etre, I'll get it out of you. I'm never going to tell. Never tell. Everybody, let's get this out of
her. Anyways, is in a sexual situation and I think there's a lot of tension being a man that is created by the societal expectation. That you cannot be submissive you have to be dominant. And one of the ways that the tension can be released is through being kink in a submissive being submissive, in
the king setting. and so, I think encouraging men to be vulnerable in any capacity is good and I think Kink is one way that that can Can occur and perhaps if we learn that being submissive in a sexual or King setting is, okay? Then perhaps being submissive and vulnerable and quote-unquote feminine in a societal situation is perhaps acceptable. I know that was a lot. I my thoughts are still forming on that but three, I followed it. I followed the train was, it was weird train.
I don't know. I mean, it wasn't even really I think it was. I think it was honestly like really nice. Like I think it's like a lot of times, the Kink conversation is left out of the conversation about like the society in which we live and the expectations that are put on different genders and also just like toss toxic masculinity as a whole. Like we talked a lot about like
fake Dom's and like my hat. Fake times or whatever but like there's a lot of toxic masculinity wrapped up in ideas about submission and stuff as well too. It's not just like oh well have to be assured gamla Dom like there's a lot but like I yeah I mean I get it like I don't know if I have a lot to contribute because I am not a dude.
But well I just remember being like in my first couple sexual encounters when I was 14 and 15 or so and feeling like I had to like so. Much of my nerves about that was, I have to decide what should happen here? You know, I have to be this man about yes. And you know, every move you that I'd ever seen involved some scene where like the man like walks up to the woman and she goes, uh, and then he like picks her up, and she's like that.
Uh, and they like go up against and it's this whole fucking bullshit thing and the fact that I couldn't do that because that's not just, that's just not who I was, was a real insecurity of mine for a very long time. And to, to imagine being like that. Now, with the agency that I have, I have my own money, I can go wherever I please. I, and I'm large enough to hurt people. The idea of being that emotionally unhealthy fucking
terrifying. Yeah. And without being to Grant about it, like that's why Wars get started and shit is because men are unhealthy and makes stupid fucking decisions because we can't cry. Anyways, we can do a whole episode. But no, I mean, it's a really good point, like, I think being aware of That is really important. I feel like we're very close to like yes, this topic is really important and we're not talking about it. Like that's that's what I have in the back of my head right
now. I don't think I think I'm having a hard time talking about it, but I don't know. I just I I feel like an agent, like a deep-cover agent or something. Sometimes we're like straight, men will talk to me. Like, I'm just going to agree with the misogynistic bullshit that they say. Yeah. And so like, I don't know. Now that I have a platform to say like, hey guys, It's okay to cry. It's okay to hug each other.
It's okay. If you like, you know, getting pegged like it's okay it's all okay. And I think Kink is as king being such a microcosm of like Human Experience getting okay with doing things that you might consider to be feminine or masculine and being okay, with not being in control and submitting to a woman. And and then again, I mean I'm talking critically about, you know, straight Mass And King can be really helpful to that as it's been helpful to me. Okay, well then here is my next
question for you then. So you are newer ish to the Kingston than me. I've been, I've been active in the scene for belly. I don't know, 10 years, maybe 12 or something like that. I'm elderly Eric, you must not forget this. I'm so much older than you. I had like one of the most one of the questions that I get asked most frequently is I want to talk to my partner about trying cake stuff or I'm interested in King stuff.
How do I get started? And like, I have my answers which are very, like, stock answers at this point because like, I have answered that question. Approximately 9,000 times on take time live at this point. So, Bullock, what for you, like, for somebody who is much, much newer. What advice do you have for
somebody? Like, just starting out like, especially for like dudes and in like a position like yours where they're like, maybe they are a little bit more submissive or they're just trying to like figure out, like where they fall sort of in like the identities in kink. Like how like, how what would you say to those people? How do you, how do you get them started on that Journey?
Um, I think one just a lot of the things that you think you're going to like, you're not going to end up liking and a lot of the things that you think you're not going to like you are going to end up like which is really jarring. But so I think go into that. Like if you express strong interest to your partner in trying something, you do not have any obligation to continue, enjoying it, you can say, oh, wait, never mind like that. Is that, was that it's well.
How do you start the conversation? Your partner because I like very specifically. Remember how you brought it up with me? But I would like you to tell the story because it's not my story to tell. Wait, wait, which where physic, I'm trying to hurt because we had a lot of conversations we were in my car and your car. Yeah, I remember, I think, I don't know that we were talking, I basically said, like, Oh I wanted like a sampler course I think. Is that the conversation is very well?
Yes yeah cuz like I had a lot of ideas about why I would like because there a lot of things that like the idea of are you know, hot to me or interesting to me, but to have them physically happen to you as a different story. And so I think I asked to to design like sampler courses of different things. So, like, when we started doing impact play, you gave me the rundown of like.
So there's stinging impact, you know, like getting like like a Kane is very sticky and then there's 30 which is like a fucking bat, you know. And so I was like cool. Like, let's just give me a little assu song of this fat like that, you also absolutely, and immediately defaulted to Kitchen terms, that was something that I thought was
very funny. Like yeah, you know, a little sampler course, like, just a little sampler platter, just a little Chef's tasting menu when I was like I got it, Eric your cook well, in our particular case, like I know that you're very experienced. Inkay ink.
So I knew you were qualified to do that so I guess one I think it was worth waiting to be with a partner that I was comfortable doing that stuff with not to say that I was deliberately waiting like I you know somebody came up to me and said you know I want to do king stuff with you. I'd be like yeah sure which would not have been safe but it's it was worth. I'm just so glad that I have that conversation with you you specifically and not just someone Um, and so I think
weirdly sweet. It was really nice, but then also, it's a really a two-way thing while I was reading. I was really surprised that not surprised, but was interested in when you spoke that, like, it's easy to think that like the sub is the only person that needs to give consent. But the person doing the thing also needs to be comfortable
doing that thing. So, be aware that when you, if you bring something up to your partner, they might be like that's totally Fine, that you want that but I'm not comfortable doing. So be aware that the well one remind them that they can do that. But I would also be specific because if you say to a partner like I want to try King stuff. That's that's the that's broadest thing of. Yeah.
So say specifically like I would like would it be okay if you you know hit me with a wooden spoon kitchen stuff? But I don't like honestly, in terms of advice, I think, I think you would probably work, although, like I'm more proximal to having had that experience because it was like two months ago. I had an experience with you and I know that you were experienced.
So I was more, I was asked, I was talking to like a professor on the subject whereas I'm thinking like a couple where neither of them have really had very many. Yeah. If any kid experiences. Yeah. How might one partner approaches mean? You know the real thing. The real thing. That and I'm just going to be so
infinitely practical. The real thing about Kink is that there is like and I think maybe it's so no another podcast breakthrough but like one of the things that really draws me to Kink is that like there is work that needs to be put in on both sides constantly and consistently, you know? And so like I get these questions all the time about like well how do I talk to my partner like whatever? And I'm like, You just have the Caillou just sit down.
You have the conversation but with that conversation and I can't I can't tell people how to have that conversation because like every relationship is different. Ours came out of like a separate conversation that we were having like in my car on the highway and it happened to come up and I was like, yeah, sure family. I got you and I was like happy to do that for you because I love you and I care about you and I want you to like be fulfilled, you know?
But for other people like it might be coming out of a. I'm very dissatisfied with my relationship and might be coming out of a We're in a new relationship, you know, or we're in an old established relationship. And we want to, like, spice this up, or like, whatever. Like there's so many different ways to come at it, that I don't think that there's, like a script, but I think what it comes down to is vulnerability authenticity.
And then, circling back to the point that I lost track of is fucking research like, and it sucks. It sucks to have to look at somebody and to be like, oh, you want to do heavy impact play? Well, I need you to go read about fucking Deep tissue bruises and go research like different implements and liked out. Come back and tell me like, what you'd like to be hit with like that is boring, it is boring. And it's frankly, not that sexy.
It's not that sexy to have to go in like FetLife and read a bunch of, you know, like how to guides on, you know, how to do single column knots and like that kind of thing, but it's necessary. It's necessary for safety. It's necessary for communication, and kind of like the tick tock. Do you made about apple juice versus vodka? Like, even terminology like, if I say a paddle, what does that mean? Like, for some people, they picture like something real, small and cute, and whatever.
Some people picture, something a lot, less fun, and cute, you know? And so being on the same page involves just so much communication and specificity in that communication. And I don't know, like this is going to be read, this might be the shittiest thing that I ever say on this podcast. But I think one of the things that have been a has become abundantly. Clear to me as both like a king talker, sex educator mental health, Advocate is how many people are in shitty
relationships? And like that sounds harsh and it sounds mean and maybe it is, but like I'm shocked by the number of people who come to me and say things like, I can't talk to my partner about my ADHD. I can't talk to my partner about my depression, I can't talk to my partner about wanting them to tie me up. I can't talk to them about A B C or D and it's like, I understand that it can be challenging. I understand that it can be
uncomfortable. But I think it's so important to build those skills and for exactly what you're talking about earlier, like it's not just about being like Eric, I would like it very much if you tied me up and choked me. It's about being able to look at you and say, Eric, you forgot to take out the garbage for the third time, this this month and
it really hurts my feelings. Those are both uncomfortable conversations in their own kind, but being able to have one means that you can more easily have the other and, So yeah. I mean like if you don't have a supportive partner, if you don't have a partner who is willing to listen, if you don't have a partner who is willing to at least listen, even if they're not at all interested. Even if the they quietly and respectfully, listen to host feel and they go, absolutely
not. I am not interested in spanking you or whatever. There should, you should be able to come to your partner with that kind of stuff. And trust that they will at least hear you. And listen, and if you're not like that's that's a red flag for me, dog. Thanks for being that kind of person Katie, you know, being a being a person, I can talk to you about the kind of stuff, you know? Proud. I can't imagine what my life would be. Like now if you want, I can't
imagine my life without you. Aw, Hey everybody. Congratulations, you did it. You made it to the end of the episode. I just want you to know that I'm really proud of you good job before we go, I know at the beginning of the episode, I talked about some easy ways that you can help support infinite Quest. But now is the point of the episode where we get to, thank our newest patreon sponsors. So a huge infinite Quest. Thank you, goes out to pierce and Claire and Dave.
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Thanks for coming back week after week, we are having just the most extraordinary time with All of this and all of you are part of it. So thank you so much from the bottom of our hearts. And until next time, remember to take your meds, drink, some water, and be kind to yourself. And from all of us at infinite Quest we love you. We love you came in to say, we love you, but she didn't turn her invoice gate down. So we love you is what you meant to say. Also, this week's special key
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