A listener note, this episode contains adult content and language. I received a text message from someone telling me the girl I love might not be who she says she is. Who is this someone? Oh, we got a hit. This is a spoofed number. Time out. Wait a minute. Have you confronted her? Yes. What happened? We got blocked. Wow. Oh my god. We've never had a case like this. My heart's racing.
Don't be nervous. From MTV and Wondery, I'm Nev Schulman, and this is Catfish the Podcast, where we uncover the truths and lies about love in the digital world and help people find out if someone really is who they say they are. Now our most shocking episodes are adapted for your ears for the very first time. On this episode, Dylan and Allie. Here we go. Ooh. Dylan. Subject, who should I believe? The girl I love or a stranger?
Dear Nev and Max, my name is Dylan. I'm 21 years old and live in Browns Mills, New Jersey. I'm writing to you guys because I now suspect the girl I love might not be who she says she is. I met Allie eight months ago. She commented on a post of mine, and I was immediately attracted to how adorable she was, so I messaged her. We immediately hit it off. Things moved fast. I think I started falling for her the first week I knew her.
Allie is 20 years old, lives in Oklahoma, and works full-time in a hospital just like I do. Whoa! We text all day every day because we have so much in common. Around the time we met, I lost my mom, which in all honesty, I have yet to fully recover from. I was only eight months ago. I barely knew her, but she was there to lift my spirits up every day. As much as I tried to push everyone away.
She still would not leave, and I'm so grateful for that. As wonderful and amazing as Ali is, she has refused to video chat on multiple occasions. In all honesty, I never thought she could be lying until a few days ago. I received a text message from someone telling me Ellie was not who she said she was. Who's this someone? Who's this mystery texter? I have no idea what to make of this message. I never thought I could be getting catfished, but this is something I cannot ignore.
What should I do? Dylan. We've never really had a case like this where a mysterious stranger pops up out of nowhere and says, hey, you should know this person's not who they say they are. How does this person know that Allie's a fake? Right. All right, well, why don't we... Let's video chat with Dylan. She won't video chat with him, so we will. Let's talk about something that might be keeping you up at night. Cybersecurity.
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Max and I just got an email from Dylan. He's 21 years old and lives in Browns Mills, New Jersey. Eight months ago, a woman named Allie commented on a post of his and he was immediately drawn to her. He'd recently lost his mother and Allie was there to lift his spirits. Even though Allie has refused to video chat, Dylan never thought that she could be lying until he got a mysterious message from someone saying that Allie is...
not who she says she is. He needs our help to find out what this could be about. We're getting Dylan on FaceTime to find out more. Alright, here we go. Hey! Ooh, mop top. What's up Dylan? Hey guys, how's it going? We're doing good, man. Dylan is sitting in the kitchen. The walls and appliances are all white, accented by wood cabinets.
Dylan's hair is shaved on the sides with a mop of curly light brown hair on the top, a slight beard on his chin, and tiny diamond studs in both ears. He smiles. We just saw your email. Sorry to hear about your mom. That's pretty rough. Yeah. After my mom passed away, I've been working a lot trying to save my money because I'm trying to find somewhere to settle down. My ultimate goal is to become a pediatric cardiologist.
So I need to start college really soon. And so are you currently finding like the right school to go to? That's what I'm trying to do. And then there's and then there's, you know, Ali. And like with everything going on and me trying to like go down there and like live with her, like, you know, get a college down there, I'm trying to make sure I make the right move with her. But at this point, I just don't know.
Right. Well, so tell us how that all started with Ali. How did you guys even meet on Facebook? I'm pretty sure like I was just rolling down my friends list and I accepted her and she commented on one of my stuff. And I was like, okay, to be honest, you're really pretty. And we just started talking from there. How quickly did you guys exchange phone numbers? It was rather quick. And I think our first conversation was like three hours long. We hit it off.
It was incredible. And you said you met Allie right around the time that your mom passed. It was like a couple months before my mom passed away. When she passed away, I got really distant. Like, I shut everybody down. I didn't talk to nobody. and she found out what happened to my mom and she kept on me like she kept messaging me making sure i was okay she showed like a lot of compassion and like just started falling from there
And like, you know, we would have phone calls. Some calls would be intimate. And it was going really, really great until recently. I got a text and it said, Ali is not who she says she is. I'm just like. dumbfound it whoa i don't even know how they got my number and i asked i was like who is this and they they never replied did you bring up that text with ali i did and she kept repeating the same question she just kept asking me do you trust me
Do you trust me? And I said, I do, but it makes me nervous. And like, how can I make this move if I don't know for sure if she's who she says she is? This is like dire for me.
Well, we don't know what we're going to find here, and it might not be good, but are you ready for either direction? I'm ready. I need to know. All right, so sit tight, and we'll head... to jersey we'll see if we can figure out what's going on here dylan nods okay sounds good man thank you all right dylan see you soon hang tight he wears his heart on his sleeve yeah i like him doesn't look good though no Here we go! Oh beautiful New Jersey. Max and I just landed in New Jersey.
It's a dreary day. The trees on either side of the highway are bare. We drive onto the main street in downtown Browns Mills with quaint old-fashioned buildings and red brick sidewalks. We park in front of the Lower Forge Brewery where Dylan told us to meet him. It's painted yellow with green trim. An American flag hangs on one window and a Christmas wreath is nailed to the door. Dylan is waiting and comes to the car to greet us. How's it going? Hey, man.
Nice to meet you, Dylan. You want to start drinking, huh? Afternoon? Is that what 21 looks like? What's up? Dylan gives me a high five and a hug. He leads us into the pub. We walk through the large, dimly lit bar to the more casual room in the back where the bartender pours us a flight of beer. Whoa. We gotta get this guy's life story. Beer will help. To love and friendship. Wow. Tasty.
We're beer buddies, buddy. All right, here we go. The three of us sit around one of the small wooden bar tables set up around the room. There's a large bar against one wall. and a string of white lights hang above us. Dylan unbuttons the cuffs of his shirt and rolls up the sleeve to reveal the tattoos on his arms.
These are all Bible verses. Did you grow up very religious? Not at first. I didn't get into my faith until I was in 11th grade going into my senior year. My dad got diagnosed with cancer and he passed away when I was 17. And then your mom passed away. My mom passed away in July. Eight months ago. How did she die? She was changing her clothes one morning. She was like, I feel funny. And her heart just stopped. They tried reviving her, but it didn't work. So.
I'm sorry, man. It's a pretty rough, rough story. How important is Ally? Do you guys love each other? Yeah, we do. Yeah, without doubt. I tell her that I love her and that I really care about her. But does she know how you feel about what you've been through and where you want to go? Yeah, she does. She knows that I'm very passionate about wanting to be a surgeon. Like, I felt like she understand, like, the passion to help people. Like, at the end of the day, that's all I want to do.
She seems like she could be the one. Yeah, for sure. How much are you taking seriously the possibility that she's not who she is? I'm hoping for the best. I'm trying to be optimistic about it because, I mean, it would suck to be like, I'm in love with a girl who's not really her. Can we see what this girl looks like? Yeah. Dylan takes out his phone and hands it to me. I have that picture and then there's another picture. Allie has long blonde hair.
She's wearing a sleeveless white top and has a beautiful, warm smile on her face. All right. She's cute. Yeah, definitely. Oh, look. We'll start doing our fancy finger work online and see what we can find. Okay. That sounds like a blame to me. Let's get out of here. Hang in there. We'll get you through this. Take care, guys. All right, man. Max and I are at the hotel getting ready to start our investigation and break down Dylan's story. I like him.
I like him a lot. He's very sincere, very intense. My concern is he's got all these ambitions despite everything he's been through. You know, he's gonna dedicate his life to medicine and kids, and he really has his future sort of imagined. And a big part of that is being with the right person. And if he loses Ali, what else is he going to give up on? He has a lot riding on this. All right, so here's what we got.
We got Dylan, who has a 21-year-old. He's already had very close family members pass away in the last four years. And he's got this hugely ambitious future planned for himself. And finally, maybe... got his first break. A woman named Ally. Somehow the universe put this beautiful, caring, compassionate woman in front of him. And he hadn't even considered that she was fake until a couple days ago when he gets this mystery text.
Who sent that text? Was it her? Does she live in Oklahoma? Does she really work at a hospital? He's going to be devastated if she turns out to not be who she says she is. Definitely. Here we go. We got an email from Dylan. Information on Ally. She lives in Tulsa. Also, here's the number that messaged me.
It's another Tulsa number. Yes, that's right. Same area code. Where do you want to start? Facebook page? Sure. I pull up Ali's Facebook page. So just looking at her Facebook page. Studies at Tulsa Community College. She's an intern at St. Francis Memorial. I grab all the pictures from her page.
First one is a mirror selfie of Allie looking casual in an orange and white striped tank top over a black top and leggings. Here's one with some friends. Another selfie of Allie standing cheek to cheek in the middle of two women, all with big smiles on their... They're not tagged. She's tagged. She tagged herself. Weird. Here's another one. She's got a Texas
necklace on. Wait a minute. Oh man, look at that. In this photo, Allie is in the backseat of a car sleeping. She's wearing an orange t-shirt and a necklace with a gold pendant in the shape of the state of Texas. Time out. Oklahoma is very close. It is close, but it's not Texas. Why does she have a Texas with a heart? With a heart. Oh my God. She might just have family in Texas, but this feels suspicious. Let's search her photos and see what we get.
Pictures, pictures. Here we go. First pick. This is the picture that Dylan showed us of Allie in the white shirt. Nope, no hit. All right, next pick. No hits. I start dropping all of the pictures into Google image search. Picture number three. All right. Come on. Come on. Oh. No. Last two pictures. This girl doesn't exist. Come on. We need a hit. Come on.
All right. So nothing. The closest lead we got is the Texas necklace. All right. Let's go to friends. Yeah. What is our girl to boy ratio here? Mostly guys. Which is always a red flag. It is. Lots of photos with friends, but no friends are tagged. She's only got 300 friends. Not a lot. Her profile right now is ranking pretty high on the catfish-o-meter. Yeah.
Alright, so should we just reach out to some of the people? Yeah. A guy named Jay has 5,764 followers. Okay, he seems to be sort of legit. Hit him up. Let's send him a message. Hashback Jersey girl. It's a girl. Send her a message. I send Mason a message. Okay. Can we search her phone number? Yes! Okay, search, baby, search. I enter Ali's number. Look, Mark . Who's Mark ? Click on that. Early 40s. Mark could be Ali's dad. Right, totally. Wait, what's this? Phone complaint?
There's an alert in red in the middle of the screen. That's so weird. Look up the other phone number. This is the phone number he got the weird message from. I enter that number. Here we go. Oh, we got a hit. Oh, see? Does it give us an address? No, Tulsa. All right, both in Tulsa. Oh! Ew! Lubbock, Texas. Whoa! Texas necklace. Hello? Hello? Yeah, hey, what's up? Who's this?
Hey, how you doing, Jay? Thanks for getting back to us. We're doing a story now, and we're looking into this girl, Allie, that we noticed you're following on Instagram and have sort of communicated with via comments. Have you ever met her in person? And what happened? Ireland? And how long did you guys talk before you found out it wasn't her? Probably about two months or so when she was finally like, um, I hate to break this to you, but...
Wow, she said, sorry, I'm actually not that girl. I'm really Ali. Yes. Did you guys continue a relationship? Was there still sort of a romantic element? Not really. Wow. Has she ever mentioned a guy named Dylan? Right. All right, well, cool. Thanks for getting back to us. We appreciate it. All right, Jay. Thanks, Jay. See ya. So hold on. Time out. Wait a minute. So as long as four years ago. She was someone else. Who knows what else she's been. The only consistent pieces of information.
Tulsa. The area codes. Even the guys who are the mystery texters are from Tulsa. I guess we're going to Tulsa. Okay. Max and I pull into the parking lot of Dylan's complex of matching two-story condominiums. The buildings are painted off-white with red doors. They have small upstairs balconies and are surrounded by green lawns and large trees. American flags hang outside some of the homes. Let's do this. Max and I get out of the car.
and walk to Dylan's door and knock. Dylan immediately comes out and shakes our hands. We follow Dylan up the stairs through the living room. There's a staircase leading to the second floor. The kitchen opens onto the dining area where we sit down around a large dark wood table. I open my computer and we get down to business. Alright.
Let's go over the results of the investigation. All right, so look. We started with a quick check on her profile, okay? We went through her photos, and we did an image search. We didn't get any hints. On one hand, it's kind of good, because it means that this is just sort of a normal person. But as we were going through her Facebook profile and looking at the photos, one thing that stood out in this picture is her necklace.
Texas. You hadn't noticed. I haven't noticed that. It's in a lot of her pictures. She's got this necklace on. Now. Oklahoma's next to Texas. That's what I was thinking. Oklahoma's next to Texas. She might just love Texas. Might have family in Texas. But the point is, this girl lives or spends a lot of time in Texas. I've never heard her mention her going down to Texas. Not a good sign.
Alright, so this is when we transitioned into the phone numbers. So we ran her phone number. And this is weird. We've never seen this. The first thing that comes up is a complaint. And after you scroll down past what it thinks is the registered owner, which is Mark . Any bells ringing on that? After that, when you go down to phone complaints, it says this is a spoofed number.
What spoof number, what is that like? I guess it's something where you trick the caller ID. It's a fake number. Dylan furrows his brow. He looks confused. Here's where it gets weird. When we search the number that texted you that Allie's not real. We got a hit. C... Have you ever heard that name before? No. All right, so the last place we went to look was her Instagram.
We went to the profiles of a few people that were engaging with Ali. One guy is Jay. Dylan leans in and stares intently at the screen. They had a few messages on a couple of pictures. No big deal. We messaged Mason and we messaged. Ash Mac Jay called us back. Now, Jay met Ally online four years ago. Her name wasn't Ally. She was going by Ireland. Dylan makes a face.
He doesn't look happy. Blonde girl, blue eyes, not the same picture. And after a couple months of talking, she revealed, sorry, I've been lying to you. Here's my real name and profile. I'm really Allie. and I'm the pictures you've been seeing. Dylan bites his lip and looks away. Well, why open up another fake Facebook account just to keep doing it again? If, like, you figured, you know, the first time you would learn...
Yeah, that's definitely another big red flag. I don't even know what to say to that. I'm just trying to wrap my mind around it. Dylan puts his hand up to his face and stares at the screen, holding back tears. We don't have an answer. We've got some leads, but nothing concrete, nothing for sure. But the reality is there is someone who cares about you, who's gone out of their way for the last eight months to...
be there for you, to support you. So if nothing else, I think the friendship that you have is real. But we don't really know if anything else is. Dylan nods sadly. So what do we do now? We need to just call Allie. Okay. My heart's racing. I dial the number. Oh, boy. Your call has been forwarded to an automatic voice message system. All right. So, I guess, should we send a text? Yeah, I would try that.
All right, hey, Allie, this is Nev from the MTV Show Catfish. I'm here in Jersey with Dylan. He asks us to help him out because he really wants to meet you. If you can give me a call back when you get a chance, that would be awesome. Thanks. All right. No matter what she says, whether she responds or not, I think we should go to Tulsa in the morning.
Everything is pointing there. Phone numbers, the clues, everything is in Tulsa. So I think you should pack a bag, mentally prepare. Yeah, I'm trying to do that now. We'll figure this out. Don't worry. I'm John Robbins and on my podcast, I sit down with incredible people to ask the very simple question, how do you cope? From confronting grief and mental health struggles to finding strength in failure.
Every episode is a raw and honest exploration of what it means to be human. It's not always easy, but it's always real. Whether you're looking for inspiration, comfort or just a reminder that you're not alone in life's messier moments. Join me on How Do You Cope? Follow now to listen to the full trailer or listen to early episodes ad-free on Wondery+.
we open the file on Witold Pilecki, the spy who infiltrated Auschwitz. Resistance fighter Witold Pilecki has heard dark rumours about an internment camp on his home soil of Poland. Hoping to expose its cruelty to the world, he leaves his family behind and deliberately gets himself imprisoned. The camp is called Auschwitz, a hellish place where the unimaginable becomes routine. Pilecki is determined.
He needs to organise the prisoners, build a resistance and get the truth out. Except when the world hears about the horrors of the camp, nobody comes to the rescue. In the end, it's just him, alone, with only one decision to make. Accept death for escape. Follow The Spy Who on the Wondery app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Or you can binge the full season of The Spy Who Infiltrated Auschwitz early and ad-free with Wondery+.
Max, Dylan and I just landed in Tulsa. We have no idea what we're going to find. We've got a lot of information that seems to point to Allie not being the person that Dylan thinks he's been talking to, but we're still hopeful that whoever it is does actually have feelings for him, and that maybe it'll still be okay. We're walking through the terminal when I get a text. Ooh, what? Oh, come on. This is Mason. You were asking about alley.
I have a lot of information about her. Give me a call. The third person we reached out to on Instagram. That's right. All right, let's call Mason. I dial the number. Whoa, hello, is this Mason? I saw your text that just came through about Allie, and I was curious what you know about her. That would make sense because the number that we looked up was tied to Mark. How did you find that? Are you still in contact with her? When was the last time you spoke to her?
And when you guys were talking, were you friends or were you like more in a relationship? Going towards a relationship. Dylan reacts to that. He nods. Got it. If you can talk to us more, we'd love to just meet up with you while we're here. Yeah, sure. Okay, great. So I will be in touch. Max, Dylan and I are on our way to meet Mason. This could be the major piece of the puzzle we're looking for. Dylan's sitting next to me in the passenger seat looking apprehensive. How you feeling?
I'm nervous. Sounds like his timeline and your timeline are kind of similar. A little bit. Well, we're pretty close. Here it is. We're in a neighborhood of small houses. It's an overcast day. The trees are bare and the lawns are brown for the winter. I pull into the driveway of Mason's house. It's one story with a flat roof painted beige with a dark brown garage door.
Okay, let's do this. We all get out of the car and walk to the front door and knock. Mason opens the door and shakes my hand. There's another guy behind him. They both have short dark hair and are wearing blue jeans and cowboy boots. We followed Mason and Clay into the living room. The far wall is covered in floor-to-ceiling windows with wicker shades. There's a large tan leather sofa with colorful pillows. A bowl of pine cones sits on the redwood coffee table.
Dylan and I sit down on the couch. Clay and Mason sit next to each other in brown wicker chairs, and Max sits across from us in a large white armchair with a red blanket thrown on the back. Thanks for calling us back. You're welcome. Thanks for all coming. How do you guys know each other? We're good friends. Not related or anything. No. Got it. Clay, we spoke a little bit to Mason on the phone, but what brings you here? Allie said she had a sister that I should meet, Samantha.
but we figured out that Samantha and Allie were the same person. All right, so hold on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, wait. We got a lot of questions, and you guys seem to have some answers. Why don't you kind of just walk us back to the beginning, and then how you ended up figuring out what you figured out. Okay. So we matched on Tinder, and we started talking. Everything was good. How often are you guys talking? Every day. And then I wanted to hang out with her. She goes, okay. Set a time, and then...
Something came up. Dylan has his chin in his hands, listening intently to Mason's story. How many times did you guys try to meet up? Three or four. Okay. So I was like, yeah, this is fishy. And one of my friends is cousin with this girl named Mary. And I gave her the Samantha number, and she said, this is so-and-so, I know her. Wait, okay, so you have a friend who's cousins with this girl, Mary. Yes. And somehow you guys ended up discussing Samantha. Yep.
And this girl was like, wait a second, that sounds like it could be Mary. Yeah. She said, what number do you have for Samantha? Yeah. And when you gave it to her, she said, oh, that's Mary's number. Yes. Have you confronted her and said, we know? Yes, I sent her a text message of Allison, the real girl. Oh, so you found the real girl? Yes. How did you do this? The real Allison's friend.
found me on Instagram and said, Ally, she's not real. So someone who knows the girl in the pictures saw the fake profile. Correct. And saw that you were friends with the fake profile and said, hey, this girl's not real. Yes. But she knows that someone is using her pictures. Yes, she does. Wow. Wow. Wait, so sorry. So when you texted her the picture of her profile. Oh, yes. What happened? No response.
Nothing. So I just left it as that. So that was the last communication you had with her? Yes. We got blocked from everything. Are you dead? Yes. Crazy. Dylan shifts in his seat and smiles. I'm floored. Like, oh my God. I just don't understand, like, why go through all this, like, catfishing people for that long. Like, I mean, eventually people are going to find out. What do you know about Mary ? Her cousin's name's Chelsea and...
That's whose cousin? That's Mary's cousin. That number contacted Dylan and said there's something about Allie. She's not who she says she is. Be careful. And we reverse searched that phone number and it came back to a C. Mary's cousin, Chelsea, seems to want to help. Clay, can you call Chelsea? I can try to call Chelsea. Clay takes out his phone and dials Chelsea's number.
Hey, this is Clay. I'm here with the guys from Catfish, and we're just wanting to ask some questions. Clay hands me the phone. Hey, Chelsea, right? Yes. Hey, this is Nev, and we're sitting with Dylan. who you, I believe, texted. Is that right? Yeah, I texted him. We were just wondering why you felt compelled to reach out to him. How long have you known that Mary's been catfishing people? Dylan's mouth drops open. He looks away. Whoa, and how old is she now?
Wow. Okay. Does Mary know that you reached out to Dylan? Um, yes. And was she upset or what? We reached out to her and she hasn't responded. Do you think you could tell her we'd like to meet her and do you think she would? That is not Our intention, so I don't think you need to worry about that. Okay. I'll get married to come over. Come over to your place. Yes, I can send you my address. Yeah, send me your address and let us know when we're all clear. Okay. All right, see you soon. Bye.
We just have to have faith in Mary that she'll show up. Both Clay and Mason shake their heads and laugh. Thank you for your services. You guys really cracked this one wide open. All right. Thank you. We all stand up. Dylan shakes Clay and Mason's hands. Bye, guys. Bye. Let's go. Chelsea sent us the address. Max, Dylan, and I are in the car on our way to meet Mary. She kind of wants to be found out a little bit, right? I mean...
Even her own cousin is outing her at this point. The walls are closing in. Mary's been getting found out for years and doesn't seem to stop her. I just want to know why. Like, I know I'm going to have more questions like when I see her in person. All right, well, we're here. I park in front of Chelsea's house. Dylan exhales. He looks very nervous. You ready to do this? Yeah. We all get out of the car.
We walk up to the small one-story red brick house with a gray shingled roof and gray trim. Dylan and Max wait on the curb and I walk up to the house. There's a Christmas wreath hanging on the white front door. I peek inside through the cutout glass on the top, and then I knock. I knock again, and it opens. A woman comes out and closes the door behind her. Hi. Hi. Hey. Hey. Chelsea or Mary? I'm Chelsea. Hi. Nev. Chelsea smiles.
She has shoulder-length dark blonde hair. She's wearing an olive green button-down shirt over a black t-shirt and blue jeans. She shakes my hand. Great, so we spoke earlier. Excellent. Chelsea and I walk to where Dylan and Max are standing on the curb. This is Max and Dylan. Hello. Hello. Nice to meet you. You too. Nice to meet you. Chelsea shakes their hands, then steps back and stands apart from us with her hands in her pockets. You're who texted Dylan last week. I appreciate that. Thank you.
So Mary is here right now? Yeah, she's inside. She is. Okay. Well, should we go in there or what do you think? I mean... I can go get her. Okay, that works. Can I go with you? Yeah, you can come. Okay, we can hang here. That's fine. Max and Chelsea go inside the house. Dylan and I exchange looks. Hi. Hello. Don't be nervous. Hi. Hi. So, are you... It's alright. Sorry. Are you Mary? Yes. Hi, I'm Max. Hi. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you.
I know you're really nervous. Yeah. But I think that this is kind of the right thing to do. We brought Dylan all the way from New Jersey. And I think he just wants some answers. Yeah. So... Can you come outside with me? Okay. You ready? The front door opens and Max comes out with Mary. Dylan stares stone-faced as they approach. Mary has her blonde hair up in two buns on top of her head. She's wearing a gray jersey dress over black leggings.
She looks terrified. Hi. Hi. How you doing? Good. Nev. Hi. I shake Mary's hand. Mary, good to meet you. This is Dylan. Dylan puts his hand to his face and looks down. So we obviously have a lot of questions. I just want you to know I wasn't trying to hurt you. Dylan stares at her angrily. He's always been there, no matter what. I didn't want it to be like this. I love you and I care about you. And I'm so, so sorry.
about all this, yeah. Why pretend to be somebody else? I've been doing this for a very long time. I've always been that outcast girl, so then when... You go to another world like internet, you get to be whoever you want. And what about the girl whose pictures you're using? Her name is really Allie. She's caught me before. She has said some rude things to me, but not, I mean, who wouldn't? I've been stealing her pictures. What about your story that...
Dylan knows is true. You said a lot of things about where you worked and what you wanted your dreams. Maybe some things I did say were not correctly right. I do go to college. Are you studying to be in the medical profession? Yes, I do want to be a general surgeon. But you don't work at a hospital? No. Obviously, Dylan's gone through a pretty traumatic last couple of years.
and was pushing people away, why did you fight to stay in his life? He was my person when I needed him, and I was going to be there even if I wasn't the real person. Did you feel bad that you had been lying to him at that point? I mean, I don't feel good. Have you tried to actually stop it? Yeah, I've tried and I just go back. There's something that pushes me to go back.
The real girl's contacting you and your cousin's selling you out. Clay and Mason, Clay thought he was talking to Ali's sister. All these people are kind of confronting you now. It's like mine.
It's weird to say to people. Like, it's like my addiction. It's weird to come out, but it's like the attention and the strive to get that attention, and you'd pretty much do anything you could to get that attention. You said the word addiction. Yeah. You know, which is kind of an admission that things have... kind of gotten out of control. Yeah, I was not going to stop by myself, and I know it's not going to, ever.
I'm Afua Hirsch. I'm Peter Frankopern. And in our podcast, Legacy, we explore the lives of some of the biggest characters in history. This season, Genghis Khan. Best known for his brutal campaigns, he was accused of causing millions of deaths. But he also gave his followers religious freedom and education. So is there more to his story than violence and bloodshed?
I suspect that there might be Peter, and since violence and bloodshed is basically all I ever learned about Genghis Khan growing up, I'm actually really curious to find out what lies behind the legend. I can promise you are in for a treat because the Mongols were capable of exceptional acts of brutality. But all the stuff in the positive column either is never talked about or gets brushed to one side. So I'm really grateful to have the chance to speak up for Mongol history.
Follow Legacy Now wherever you get your podcasts. Or binge entire seasons early and ad-free on Wondery+. Oh boy, I'm sure Dylan is completely overwhelmed by the situation. As much as he was prepared for Allie not to be who he thought she was, it's always hard to meet the real person face to face. He looked shell-shocked and angry. It must have been extremely difficult for Mary to come clean. I mean, it's been going on for six years, and as she says, it's become an addiction.
Now it's the next day. We gave Dylan some time to process what happened. He's sitting in the lounge of our hotel when we come down. He stands up to greet us. How you feeling? Yesterday I was obviously in shock, so I feel like, you know, I didn't get to say every single thing that I wanted. And I actually checked the Ali Facebook page, and it says that she was still actively using it.
on Messenger. So you mean like she was actually online last night? Mm-hmm. So she's still probably messaging other dudes on it and still catfishing. Yeah, I mean, she didn't seem like she was ready to stop. No, I feel like that's an issue. Definitely. You ready to do this? Let's head out. Max, Dylan, and I are headed back over to Chelsea's house. It's a dreary, rainy day, which matches the mood in the car. We pull into the driveway and get out.
Then we walk to the front door and I ring the doorbell. Chelsea greets us with a smile. Hey. Hello. Can we come in? It's a little wet out here. Yeah, come on. All right. We follow her into the living room. Mary comes out from the kitchen. Max and I sit down on the dark brown leather love seat. Chelsea and Dylan sit on either end of the matching couch, and Mary sits next to her in a small office chair.
Chelsea and Mary have their hands in their laps looking very serious. So, I guess something that we were all concerned about yesterday, you expressed that you're not that close to stopping. And obviously it took Chelsea reaching out to Dylan to bring us here. You're obviously very uncomfortable with Mary's catfishing. Yes, for her safety and just her, like, mental state.
Why her safety? I mean, I know there's people out there that will be extremely mad and, you know, it's not hard to find out where somebody lives so they could go find her house and hurt her. Have you ever been in a situation where you felt threatened by someone that you had... Mary nods. I've been threatened by a person. He found out where I worked, and he went and circled my job. And we ended up having a police officer come down and just...
just stay there because I was so scared. But it didn't stop you. Now a slight smile comes across Mary's face. Yeah, I don't think I'm going to stop, honestly, and that's terrible to say. She says it's like a drug. What is it that's so addictive? I think the attention. I don't get that much attention from being myself and having someone text me a million times.
or call me or, you know, ask me how I'm doing, because I don't get that every day if it's just me. Dylan stares at Mary. I know, like, the reason why you're doing this is because you want, you know, you want attention, you want people to be there for you, but, like, you've been catfishing for six years, right? Be honest.
How many people do you think you've catfished? I mean, I have literally every social media. Probably hundreds. You gotta try to understand, you know, like, it's not just about you. Like, you're also hurting other people. That's hundreds. Yeah. This behavior needs to stop for your own safety, for other people's well-being. What's it going to take to stop? Chelsea turns to Mary. We all wait for her to answer.
I honestly don't know. Is it that good? Is the high that good that you're willing to risk life and limb to pretend to be? This other person? Because maybe it is. Maybe it is that good. Maybe it's just worth it. I mean... I don't like talking about it because I know it's looked down upon. Well, but take that away for a second. I'm just curious, how does it feel when you're going online and pretending to be Ali?
I mean, that makes me feel better. I have to pretend to be someone to feel like I'm good enough. But it makes me feel good, like, to have that someone be there to want to talk to me. I've been told I was worthless. I was really bullied in high school really bad. It got to the point I was a basketball manager. I had one basketball team, like their whole basketball team, like stood up and called me a cow as I was walking across the thing and moved at me. And then they found my Instagram.
And it just went on. I've been told that I should kill myself by multiple people from my school. And so I just got to the point that I listened to what everyone said because I felt like that's what was true about me. Chelsea looks down. Dylan is taking this in. So on a daily basis, that replay is in your head a lot. Yeah, the bullying and everything. The basketball teams. Yeah. And that's why you're addicted to this internet stuff. because for a second it gives you this high.
Right? Mary nods. How does it feel when you're talking to a new guy just reached out to you on social media? Yeah, it feels good when they like compliment me and then like they slide into my DMs, I guess. Are you excited? Yeah. Are you nervous? Oh, sometimes I get nervous around boys. I feel bad that I'm doing this to someone, but at the same time, it's just like I'm being selfish about it. When you're talking about it, it sounds like it's always, like, tainted. Yeah.
Like when they call me Allie or something, and then I'm like, that's not my name. Or like if I'm with a friend and my friend says Mary, and they're like, who's Mary? And I'm like, the guiltiness kicks in real good. So for a second it makes you feel good, but then there's all this
bull around it that ruins it all. And you have to feel bad that you messed with him, and then you gotta deal with your annoying cousin who's always blowing up your spot and telling people. I mean, like, I think you've got to approach this What you don't like, clearly, is feeling bad about yourself. But what are the things that you do like? Where on your daily life do you experience the most confidence and power and joy?
Like when I bake stuff for people and they're like, oh my gosh, this is so good. You should, like, she tells me all the time, like, please make more food. So baking is something that makes you feel... Good. Yeah, I love baking. Dylan smiles at that. That's kind of like a win-win. It's like you do this thing you love and then... And it makes you feel good and it doesn't hurt anyone. And it makes other people feel good and like the...
it gets, the positivity kind of comes back to you. So there's cooking, which is kind of pure joy. And then there's the catfish stuff, which has that element of guilt with it, right? So it's like, which one of those feelings do you want to invest in? I want the joy one more because then I'll feel joy and happiness and I won't be lying to everyone. And I can just, you know, be my own person.
Once you sort of give yourself the opportunity to consider that you are worthwhile and that you have things that you're good at that bring you and other people happiness, it's amazing how quickly you can sort of reset. I want to be your friend. I want to be there for you, and I want to help you get through this, but the catfishing has to stop. I'll help you, but you have to try to stop it. Just do you. Mary nods.
her eyes filled with tears make the most of this opportunity this happened because two people who care about you chelsea and dylan made this happen use it as best you can to change things. Yeah, I wanna do it. All right, all right. We're gonna leave, so it'll be on you. Yeah. I mean, I wanna be happier. Mary stares seriously at Max. I think she means it. Okay. We all get up from our seats. Mary comes over and gives Max and me a hug. Thank you so much. Good to meet you.
Take care. Remember, I'm here if you knew me. Dylan gives Mary a hug. She holds him tightly. They break apart. Mary is smiling. Max, Dylan, and I walk out to the car. Whew, that was intense. Mary is in so much pain. The Allie mask has been her solace for so long, I can imagine how difficult it is to let it go. Dylan was shocked and hurt by what she did, but he listened to her story and found a way to turn it around. He even said he would be her friend. That's amazing.
And maybe Mary will find the joy and fulfillment with her baking. I mean, everybody loves good cakes and cookies. A few months later, we check back in. Dylan pops up on the screen with a huge smile. What up, mop top? Mop top. It's now blonde. Yeah, I've tried something different. Let's see that sleeve. Whoa. It's completely done. Dylan lifts up his arm.
It's now completely covered in tattoos. Whoa, you've done a lot since we saw you. So what's up? How was everything? I've been good. I'm actually about to start college soon. Me and Mary are still friends and we still talk. And I actually got myself a girlfriend.
Whoa. Whoa, that was fast. Who is she? What's the deal? My one friend, she just messaged me randomly, and she was like, hey, do you want to hang out? I didn't think anything I love. I was just like, yeah, this is just my friend. We actually ended up kissing. And she told me that she had a crush on me for a while. Wow. And we're with each other all the time now. We're very happy for you. You got a girlfriend. You're getting into school. And you're talking to Mary.
I've been helping her out as much as I can. All right, man. It's all good. That's a good report, Dylan. Try it. Take it easy, Dylan. All right, I will. Bye, man. Dylan signs off. Hey! Mary smiles and waves. Hi, how are you? Good, how are you guys? We're great. Just spoke to Dylan, who told us you guys have been talking, which we were happy to hear. Me and Dylan are still friends. We still talk 24-7. He's still my person. That's so cool.
So, give us an update. I am gonna start going to school at culinary art school soon. That's amazing! Wait, that's what we were talking about! Do you have to pick an area? I mean, I like baking, obviously, but I do want to learn everything about culinary art. So if I did get put in the restaurant business, I would know what I was going to do. And I wasn't just a baker. That's amazing. Mary smiles. And I started this whole like 10,000 steps a day thing.
and I've made it eight days in a row now, 10,000 steps. Wow. So I'm pretty proud of myself. That's amazing. That is amazing. We are happy to hear you're doing so well. Hopefully things will keep working out and you'll end up being a cook at my favorite restaurant. Or a baker. Or a baker. Or a chef. Or a sous chef. Or a sushi chef. Yeah. Anyway, can't wait to eat your food. Mary smiles again. She looks so happy. Oh, thank you. All right, Mary. Good to see you. Bye. Bye, Mary.
This is Catfish the Podcast. If you like our show, please give us a five-star rating and a review, and be sure to tell your friends. You can follow this show on Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, on the Wondery app, or wherever you're listening right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app to listen ad-free. In the episode notes, you'll find some links and offers from our sponsors. Please support them.
Another way you can support the show is by filling out a survey at wondery.com slash survey. I'm your host, Nev Schulman. This episode was produced by Donna Hyams. Sound design is by Jay Rothman. Additional assistance by Eugene Pereiras. Our coordinating producer is Matt Gant. Tanja Thigpen is our managing producer. Our series producer is Kate Young.
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