¶ Introduction to John Hewitt
I am honored today to have John Hewitt on the podcast . John has been a serial entrepreneur for the last 55 years . He is the co-founder of Jackson Hewitt , the sole founder of Liberty Tax Service and now the CEO of ATAX . Together , these companies account for more than 10,000 tax preparation offices in the US and Canada .
In addition , john was a pioneer in the development and use of specialized tax preparation offices in the US and Canada . In addition , john was a pioneer in the development and use of specialized tax preparation software , which is now the industry standard practice .
He was awarded Entrepreneur of the Year by the International Franchise Association and has helped over 5,000 people become franchisees . He's also the author of I Compete how my Extraordinary Strategy for Winning Can Be Yours , john . I'm so glad you're here today . Thanks for being on the show .
My pleasure Thank you .
Welcome to Catalytic Leadership , the podcast designed to help leaders intentionally grow and thrive . Here is your host author and leadership and executive coach , dr William Attaway .
I would love to start with you sharing a little bit of your story with our listeners , particularly around your journey and your development as a leader . How did this whole thing get started ?
I was a student at the University of Buffalo and my degree was in mathematics and I had no clue what I wanted to be . I don't even know what a mathematician would do , but I was good at math , so I picked that as a degree and my dad tried to buy a franchise from H&R Block .
He was an accountant and they were growing exponentially and we lived in a suburb of Buffalo called Hamburg and there was no H&R Block there . So he called up and tried to buy a franchise that I would run for him while I was a student . And they said well , as a matter of fact , we're going to open a company store there .
Why don't you have your son take our tax course ? Maybe you could work for us ? I took the tax course , I worked for them , loved it , and I was blessed at 20 years old to find out what I wanted to be when I grew up .
You know most people I interview over the years and for jobs and or franchises , I ask them what they want to be when they grow up and most people don't know at any age , and I was blessed at a very young age . So I started working at H&R Block and 12 years later I was running 250 H&R Block locations .
Wow , that's remarkable . So that , I would imagine , required you to really accelerate your learning about what it means to be a leader .
Absolutely . There's no school in this country for CEOs or leadership . There's only the school of hard knocks . You know , they say , the people who have been most successful have made the most mistakes . So yeah , I learned at the school of hard knocks .
Yeah , it's easy for somebody to look at your journey and say , oh wow , he knew what he wanted to do . That young , 55 years , nothing but just up and to the right ,
¶ The Power of Perseverance
like he's had nothing but success from the outside . Looking at your highlight reel , has that been true ?
Again . Not only do people that are the most successful make the same mistakes , they overcome the most obstacles . I've never seen anyone on the planet , no matter how apparently fortunate , to skate through without adversity . It's winning and succeeding is just never giving up . The most important attribute in winning and succeeding is perseverance .
Everyone gets knocked down . Everyone has their anchors to bear and their barriers to overcome . Winners just get up there each and every time and keep going .
Where did you learn to do that ? What was it in those formative years that gave you that drive and that grit of resilience ?
You know I don't . First of all , I always remember heaven . And you know one of the differences between me and most people I didn't realize until about 20 years ago and I was heard at Kathy Lee Gifford on a talk show and she had written a book and she said one of her chapters was called Age of Bliss .
And what she said in that chapter is that , and in the interview she says up until the time you're six , seven or eight , you think you can do anything . You can be Batman , you can be Superman , you can be President of the United States , you can be a pilot , you could whatever . You think you're an astronaut , you can be anything .
And then everyone around you holds you back , even your teachers and your parents , your friends , let alone your enemies . You can't do that . You can never do that . So she says we get early in life , we get knocked out of our sense of bliss . And I realized at that point how fortunate I was and blessed . They never knocked it out of our sense of bliss .
And I realized at that point how fortunate I was and blessed . They never knocked it out of me . I was always too ornery and too stubborn and too cocky and too confident . They never knocked me out of the age of bliss . I have skated in that my entire life .
Wow , that's a gift . Exactly I have you know ornery and stubborn . I call that grit and resilient those are fire . Nicer way to say you know , it's interesting , though , in talking with so many entrepreneurs those are the non negotiables , those are the things that that you , that keep you . Those are the non-negotiables . Those are the things that keep you going .
Those are the things that , when you face the obstacles and the adversity because we all do , no matter what you see in somebody's highlight reel
¶ Grit and Resilience: Overcoming Obstacles
, we all face the obstacles those are the things that you're like no , no , I'm not . Why would I quit ? No , no , I will succeed . And that's what I hear in so much of your story .
Yeah , I saw . I'm not a fan of Dennis Rodman and many of your listeners may not be old enough to remember him , but he was a great basketball player . But he was . He fought with everyone , even his own teammates . He fought with referees . He fought with his the opponents , even his own teammates . He fought with referees .
He fought with the opponents his own teammates . And I saw him being interviewed about Michael Jordan . He played on , I think , two years of Michael Jordan's victories in the NBA finals , two of his rings and the interviewer said how did you get along with Michael Jordan ?
No one liked you and he said because Michael and I we didn't talk or talk about it , but we have the same philosophy Once we cross over the line and get on that court , we would rather die than lose . We give 200% . Everyone else might be given 99% or 100% , but we're given 200% . Well , we would rather die than lose , and so we respected each other .
For that , I would rather . I mean they got to kill me , to stop me .
That is the grit , that is the resilience , Particularly as a pioneer and with what you have done in your journey so far being a pioneer in tax preparation software I would imagine you faced a lot of pushback on that as you began to pioneer that particular development . Would that ?
be , accurate in a couple of ways . Number one is when we finished it in 1981 , there weren't even a million PCs in the country and people didn't understand computers . So one was that we couldn't sell it . I mean H&R Block in their naivety . They had an annual report in 1983 . People ask us why we don't computerize .
We say we tried it , customers don't care , it doesn't save us any money , we're never going to computerize . I mean that's what we were facing . And the one was in the world and the industry and no one wanted it . We couldn't sell it . And so what do we do with it ?
Well , fortunately we bought Mel Jackson Tax Service and changed to Jackson Hewitt , which we became a billion-dollar company . So I founded a billion-dollar company with that software because no one else would want it . And then when we started , taxpayers typically are 40 years old or average and they were afraid of a computer . But what happens if I ?
I mean it was almost like if they pressed the wrong key it would explode . I mean the computer , like would just blow up .
I mean you're not an older member of a world where back in the 60s , when they first invented microwaves , most people were afraid of microwaves , that it was unsafe and those radioactive rays were going to give you cancer , and I mean , it's a different world back then .
And so we face the ignorance or the uneducated people that just thought it was horrible , or thought it was horrible . I thought it was like the devil .
It's so true when I think about populations that like change , or populations of people that are even amenable to and open to change mountains and accounting is not one of the fields that I think where people long for change and are eager to jump in on the latest and greatest . Would that be an accurate assessment .
Well , it's interesting to me that you say you
¶ Listening and Learning: Driving Innovation
, when you think of people that like change , I think of people that like change as no one I mean . So so the conversation , when I think of group of people that like change . I've fought the whole of society and the whole of the business world my entire career , because I've never had a human being say to me that I don't want to improve .
And I have a fanatical commitment to improve . But to improve you need to change and you know , at one point , at Liberty Tax , when I was early , the mission statement was set the standard have fun , improve each day . And one year I had an epiphany and I said well , let me ask my executive team at their yearly review how did you improve ?
And it was like I read two books or I mean , not one of them changed . And so I realized the epiphany was , I realized everyone says they want to improve . Just don't ask me to change . Just don't ask me to change . And it's not changing . It's the pain of change , the pain of change that people resist .
Unlike you , I've never I mean I've never seen a group of people that embrace change . See , everyone around me hates change . Don't ask me to change . Don't ask me to change , even though they say I want to improve , I want to get better , I want to do this , I want to do that , just as long as I don't have to change .
So I think accounts are typical of everyone .
The vast majority of people I've ever met don't want to change .
I think I can certainly understand that and I think you're right . And the truth is , like you've said , growth only happens on the other side of change . Exactly , you know , everybody wants to grow , hopefully .
I heard when I was doing a podcast or on Facebook something the other day I heard someone say discomfort If you're going to do major things on Facebook something . The other day I heard someone say discomfort . If you're going to do major things , you have to understand is you're going to be uncomfortable . You have to be prepared for discomfort hmm , hmm .
So many of the people listening are entrepreneurs and they're familiar with discomfort because the entrepreneurial journey is not the easy path , right , this is one where there are obstacles . There are going to be challenges .
You have not only been a serial entrepreneur your whole life , but you have empowered and encouraged and equipped other people in their entrepreneurial journey . I mentioned that you helped over 5,000 people become franchisees . How have you been able to pour from your experience into other people to help them in their entrepreneurial journey ?
Yeah , when I think of it , 5,000 is such a huge number of people , because , not , I mean , half of them have partnerships , so it's more than one group , and most of the others have a spouse . So partnerships , uh , they've had . I've helped over 8 000 families and they had over 100 000 of employees . So it's been a challenge
¶ Empowering Others: Improving Lives
. The Part of my obsession , or passion , is that I have to have the best system . That's my responsibility as a franchisor . I have to have the pulse of the future . I have to give you best practices . I have to observe and find best practices for you , or I'm doing you a disservice .
So in doing that , I realized long ago that there is no system that's working today that's going to work five years from now . You have to improve . To have the best system , it has to be an improving system , and so my fanatical commitment has been to improve the system .
And in doing that I learned long ago that the best way to improve is listen to your team . You know we have . I've prepared , my companies have prepared 100 million tax returns and I've prepared like one a year , my own right , so for the last 30 years . So they see customers , I see the big picture , they see customers .
So I have to listen to my employees , my franchisees , and they tell me . Every year we sit down with them and say tell us how to improve . And they tell us what their customers need and what's happening in the marketplace . And I'm happy to say that every year we implement more than 50% of the suggestions that come in from the field .
The easiest way to improve is to embrace criticism . Most people hate , hate , hate , criticism , even my staff . I say that it's so hard . I mean , if everyone says , yeah , john , you're the greatest thing since sliced bread , I agree , john , I agree . Then if both of us agree , one of us is useless and I pick you . You need people that argue with you .
You need people that criticize you . It's so much easier to improve if you have criticism .
Is that something that you came to naturally , this teachable spirit that you have , listening to other people , because I find listening to be a superpower that leaders can develop over time . But a lot of people struggle with hearing feedback , with hearing this type of input from other people . Was this natural for you ?
I think it's natural because I'm an introvert and even though I do presentations like this and I appear to be extroverted , I only do it to win , right , if it wasn't part of winning . When I go to a party , right ? And I'm not a good mingler , I don't like chit-chat , I'm a good people watcher . I love to sit in the corner and watch people and observe .
You know , one time I got into an argument in college because they it was funny , because you asked that because the professor said what's the definition of genius ?
And I usually didn't talk up in college , but this time I had to because in different students that were defining it different ways and one of the things they said is they have to be , they have to give back , they have to . Genius has to be talkative and convincing or share .
And I said I raised my hand and said no , you don't Genius , why is that required of genius ? That's a different word . That is not genius . That may be caring or considerate I mean , there's other words but genius does not require you to share , in my opinion . And so , no , I learned listening because I'm an introvert .
I'm so much smarter if I ask two or three or four people and then come up with a consortium , an answer that has not only what I think but others involved . If you and I you're a smart guy , if you and I have an argument , I believe that neither one of us is 100% right . On business , that's right .
Right , I mean , I might be 98% right , you might be 99% right , but the answer is somewhere in between , and so I'm always listening to try to get , to try to improve and get better .
That . That is what I call a teachable spirit , john , and that is one thing that I challenge people because I believe that is one of the things that makes a leader catalytic .
I believe that's one of the things that moves you from mediocrity into excellence that willingness to understand that you don't know everything I don't know everything and to listen for what you can learn , because you can learn from anybody in your story , and I just I commend that and I really hope our listeners are leaning in that direction , that they're taking that
example and saying man , I want to be more like John in this . I want to listen for what I can learn .
I have a great example of that , of how I learned from one of the worst franchises I ever had . So 20 years ago I get this lengthy email complaining and what had happened ? This franchisee out in Los Angeles had a television station called him on April 15th and said we'd like to come out and do a story . So he was wow , what do I do ? What do I do ?
So he called in the corporate headquarters and all of the marketing department was up and not no one can answer his call . So I got a scathing , scathing email from him about how we left them out to dry and we should . And and I went to the marketing uh , this my chief marketing officer . And she first said well , we're
¶ The Joy of the Journey: Finding Purpose
all out in the field . It was April 15th . And I said well , how many of television stations in this country , radio stations and newspapers are going to make a phone call during the season and do a story on tax ? She said everyone . And I said do we have anything in the operating manual on what to do when the press calls ?
And then do we teach it in training at our basic training , intermediate training ? Do we teach in training any module on how to handle the press when they call . And she said no , no , and she said this is the worst franchise that ever lived . I said but we can learn from this .
And so from now on we're going to have a section in the operating communion , you know , section , the operating manual . It says what to do when the press call and we're going to do a half hour presentation at every training and here's how to handle the press . And so we improved the system from the worst franchisee that in her .
In her she was offended by the criticism . She said this is the worst franchise that ever lived . But you can learn from anyone . You can learn from anyone in any situation . And Sam Walton said that in his book Made in America you just don't learn from your competitors , you learn from every experience in your life .
It's so true because there is no such thing as a wasted experience .
Every experience in your life and my life is something that can be used either for our benefit or for the benefit of those around us , if we are willing to share it and be open-handed with what we've learned , and that's what I'm hearing from your story , John , the book that you wrote I Compete how my Extraordinary Strategy for Winning Can Be Yours is another
example of that open-handedness , right Of saying , hey , this is some things I've learned that can benefit you . Who did you write this book for ?
You know , our mission statement is very simple . I love , love , love . Our mission statement . It's having fun , improving lives . And when I mean having fun , to me it's thank God it's Monday . If on Monday morning you're not looking forward to going to work , you're going to the wrong place . Life's way way too short , right ?
So if you live thank God it's Friday , then you're working the wrong place To me . I never had a job , right . I'm always having fun . So having fun is and then improving lives . You know , when I was a kid and I was in high school , somehow I was poor . I knew I was going to get rich . I knew I was going to be successful .
I thought I would just make a few million and retire . I mean , I'm 16 , 17 . I'm lazy , I'd be happy to just make a few million and retire . And you know what I learned ? That the journey is the joy , and there's nothing more satisfying in life than improving others' lives and making the world a better place .
So when we say improving lives , we mean our investors , our franchisees , our employees , our vendors , our customers and the world around us . We have to give back . I've never found anything as rewarding as improving others' lives , and I've created a thousand millionaires and changed tens of thousands of people's lives for the positive . That is just so .
That's what keeps me going . Most people my age are retired I'll be 75 this month and most people are on a beach somewhere . To me , it's such a waste I'm at the peak of my . To me , it's such a waste I'm at the peak of my experience and knowledge and ability to help and mentor and change lives to go sit on a beach somewhere .
God didn't bless me with all the blessings I've received , just to go sit in a corner somewhere and mellow , wallow away . I love that perspective and , again , demonstrating that open-handedness , you know and say , hey , how can I help others ? A thousand people became millionaires because of your investment in them .
That alone , what an incredible way to pour what you've learned out into the lives of other people to benefit them , not just their family now , but their families for generations .
Exactly . That's a great point , because when you create a millionaire , it typically affects them for generations after that , their children and their grandchildren , and some forever .
You have to be a continual learner . To be where you are , you have to be always learning , always growing , and we talked about this . How do you stay on top of your game , john ?
How do you level up with the new leadership skills , the executive skills that you're going to need to lead at the levels that you're growing to , because a year from now , five years from now , your company is going to need you to lead at a different level . You've got to be continually growing . How ?
Yeah , that's exactly right . When you start a business like we started Jackson Hewitt with my ex-wife and myself and then it grew to 500 employees and a billion dollar company , I mean most CEOs , most executives can't make that transition . 99% can't make that transition .
But it starts with being a lifetime student and understanding that the John Hewitt that was there in 1982 needs to be a different guy every step of the way .
When you have a company doing $300,000 of revenue and then $3 million , $30 million , $100 million , $500 million , $1 billion million , 30 million , 100 million , 500 million billion dollars , if you don't grow , then you're not going to make that and most people can't . Most people fall out along the way . That's like venture capital 101 , change out the CEO .
I mean even one of the best CEOs , leaders of all time , steve Jobs . Even he got fired from his company , I mean , and because the board thought that he had met his limit and he went on and did far more , proved them wrong . But most
¶ Continuous Learning: The Key to Leadership Success
people just can't make it . So it's a commitment to improvement and part of that is reading and reading from other experts , and there isn't any book that I've ever read in management or business . I took more than a few nuggets out of it and I just take like .
There's one author , his name is Stan Phelps , and I got one nugget right and it was just so powerful . It changed the way that I view customer service and it was . He said that you never arrive at a meeting exactly on time . You're either . If the meeting is six o'clock , you're either 5.54 or 5.52 or 6.04 . Almost no one arrives exactly on time .
And he said in the same manner you don't often meet someone , a customer's expectations . You either exceed it or fail to meet it . So when I read that , it was an aha moment for me . And while other people judge their own customer service on different scale , my scale is the percentage of people we exceed customers' expectations . And I got that one nugget from .
He wrote five or six books at least and I liked him so much I had him in as a keynote speaker , but I didn't take dozens of lessons . I got that one nugget and I got the one nugget that I referred to earlier from Sam Walton nugget . And I got the one nugget that I referred to earlier from Sam Walton , made in America . Right , I got two from him .
One is the you learn from every customer experience , not just your competitor , but also said in the forward . He said people ask me why I've been so successful , and he said the only reason I can think of is I'm just so driven , and that's how I am .
I'm driven , I'm driven to be number one and that's why the name of my book is I Compete . That's so good . You've mentioned several books already , and the answer to this next question may be one of the ones you've mentioned .
But if you were to recommend one book for the entrepreneurs and the leaders who are listening to this podcast episode , one book that has made a big difference that you say , hey , if you haven't read this , this is one I would recommend to you ? Do you have a book like that ?
Well , I have two authors , and just two authors that I agree with everything they write , and one is Dale Carnegie and the other is Peter Drucker . And so if you read Dale Carnegie's first book , there's only two authors that I agree with 100% of whatever I've seen them write , but I would say Dale Carnegie's more all-encompassing .
That's so good , john . Often people walk away from an episode like this with one big idea , one big takeaway . If you could define what you want people to walk away from this conversation with , what would that one big takeaway be ?
find something you love to do , work hard , persevere . Find something you love , work hard , perseverevere . Find something you love . Work hard , persevere . Nothing comes easy . That's worthwhile , and perseverance is the number one attribute of success .
John , this has been such an amazing conversation and an honor to have you on the show . I appreciate your generosity today and sharing so freely from your journey and what you've learned so far , and sharing so freely from your journey and what you've learned so far and I believe you are going to learn even more and share even more in the days to come .
If people want to stay connected to you and I know they will and continue to learn from you , what is the best way for them to do that ?
They can go to me on loyaltybrandscom and I do a mentoring show every week where I mentor entrepreneurs on how to improve their business . The link to that's on our website at loyaltybrandscom .
And we will have that link in the show notes . I love that . I think that's an amazing opportunity for people to take a next step and prioritize growth . John , thank you .
My pleasure , thank you .
Thanks for joining me for this episode today . As we wrap up , I'd love for you to do two things . First , subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode , and if you find value here , I'd love it if you would rate it and review it . That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast .
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This book captures principles that I've learned in 20 plus years of coaching leaders in the entrepreneurial space , in business , government , nonprofits , education and the local church , business , government , nonprofits , education and the local church . You can also connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about .
And if you're ready to take a next step with a coach to help you intentionally grow and thrive as a leader , I'd be honored to help you . Just go to catalyticleadershipnet to book a call with me . Stay tuned for our next episode next week . Until then , as always , leaders choose to be catalytic .
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