2.6 Carrie's Copaganda

Hollywood Vice Squad === Katie Marinello: . [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Carried Far, far Away, a podcast where we read and watch everything that Carrie Fisher did in her short life and storied career. My name is Katie Marinello Claire Fisher: and I'm Claire Fisher, Katie Marinello: and today we are discussing Hollywood, Claire Fisher: Vice Squad. Katie Marinello: or as I've started to call it, in brain , Carrie's Copaganda Claire Fisher: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Katie Marinello: I think that's gonna be the name of the episode. Claire Fisher: There's some sad backstory here, but shall I first give a 54 second recap? Katie Marinello: Oh my gosh. I really wish you would because this one was hard to follow Claire Fisher: Okay. Katie Marinello: and I told you this, but I'm gonna say it on mic now. I had to pause and look. I never do this. I always try to go in cold, but I really could not follow the plot here. So I paused it and I looked it up and it turns out. Every, like IMDB user who reviewed it said the same thing. Really hard because there's three different arcs. And unlike last week's movie, they never really come together. They're just arcs So you are going to explain them [00:01:00] to us in 54 seconds or less? Yeah. Claire Fisher: sure. Katie Marinello: And go. Claire Fisher: Carrie Fisher. Is Betty Martin an ambitious police officer with the Vice Squad in You guessed it. Hollywood. After stumbling upon evidence that someone in her neighborhood is making BDSM porn with a potentially underage actor, she flagrantly violates the law in multiple ways in search of a way to shut down production. This is the C plot of a movie that is otherwise effectively a puppet show designed to frighten middle class white women using cardboard cutouts of eighties criminal stereotypes and features. Frank Gorshin, AKA, the Ridler as the most intimidating he has ever been. Katie Marinello: Carry on. Claire Fisher: No, that was it. Katie Marinello: That was, so tell me what you thought of the film, Claire? Claire Fisher: Okay. This is [00:02:00] actually it. It's quite sad. Katie Marinello: Yes. Claire Fisher: 'cause I could do the times first or I can tell you like why this movie got made. Where do you want me to Katie Marinello: Well, tell me what's sad. Claire Fisher: Okay. Carrie Fisher was supposed to play Miss Scarlet in Clue, Katie Marinello: Oh my God, that would be such a better movie for us to watch, Claire Fisher: I know, I know. She had to go to rehab like days before Clue would've started. Katie Marinello: right? Claire Fisher: really just at the absolute last minute, they replaced her with Leslie Ann Warren. Then she got out of rehab, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: but she couldn't get insurance. She was considered uninsurable by bond companies to do any major productions because, well, she was unreliable Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: had been an addict I believe in her memoir. She writes, it was around this time she was diagnosed with hypomania, what Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: Later in life that would be upgraded to full blown what we now call bipolar one. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: Anyway, after she got out of rehab, this was the first movie she got hired to do. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: [00:03:00] And it only happened because the director, Penelope Spheeris convinced the studio that if they cast a close friend of Carrie's Alice Spivak as the role of Betty Martin's mother, that would ensure that Carrie had to show up for work. Katie Marinello: Oh, so that's why there's one random scene with Betty's mother that goes nowhere and does nothing. Claire Fisher: And Betty is like barely in it. They were trying to minimize the number of days they needed Carrie for because they didn't think they could rely on her to show up Katie Marinello: I did find that interesting because in the marketing, she is front and center, like on the poster, she's front and center and she is last billed in like that way. That's good, right? Like the, and Carrie Fisher as Betty, whatever. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: so, yeah, I did find it interesting that she's really not in this movie that much. Given all that, I thought she was going to either play the mother who was looking for her daughter or the daughter when I read the description, but yeah. Claire Fisher: So nowadays. You see a lot of these that go direct [00:04:00] to streaming, know, dumped on various minor streaming outlets where they hired someone who used to be famous for Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: days work and then they can use their name to promote the Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: Famously Bruce Willis in his final years before retiring because of Lewy body dementia was doing a lot of those because he couldn't memorize lines anymore, Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: really do stuff. I've also seen Linda Hamilton and Michael Biehn be used in similar ways. Um, Is a low point for Carrie Fisher, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: in terms of career and in terms I think of health. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: was a really hard year for her. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: So this actually was only released in 70 theaters and grossed a total of $50,379. Katie Marinello: Holy smokes. Claire Fisher: It is most noted as being the inspiration for the movie within a movie that's being made during Postcards from the Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: Which of course is a semi autobiographical story of a woman who just got out of rehab Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: find extremely cheap [00:05:00] work. Katie Marinello: It's not semi autobiographical when we get there. It's Claire Fisher: it's, it's a Roman a clef Katie Marinello: yeah. Claire Fisher: changed the names, but it's obviously autobiographical. Right. So, yeah, this came out July 3rd, 1986, which is the same day they re-lit the newly renovated Statue of Liberty. Katie Marinello: Okay. Claire Fisher: Yeah. You remember the mom's story of climbing up the outside Katie Marinello: Yes. Yes. Claire Fisher: The number one movie in America was, can you guess Katie Marinello: The one we watched last week. Claire Fisher: The Karate Kid? Part two? Katie Marinello: Huh. Interesting. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: Okay. I've not seen part two, but I do like part one. Claire Fisher: Part two is weird. It retcons Mr. Miyagi as being a Japanese immigrant, which actually retcons him to being an undocumented immigrant because Japanese people couldn't move to the US in the 1930s, which is when he would've had to move here if he served in World War II and has a family die in an internment camp. So Katie Marinello: he has an accent, so wouldn't he have been an immigrant?[00:06:00] Claire Fisher: Well, I mean, it makes more sense if he was like a first generation, you know, grew up with his parents speaking Japanese as a first language. Right. Katie Marinello: Got it. Anyway. Claire Fisher: anyway I digress. Other movies that were in theaters the same weekend include Top Gun Ferris Bueller's Day Off, Big Trouble in Little China, relevant to our Kurt Russell brother podcast and The Great Mouse Detective. I think also possibly relevant to why this movie got made is that the TV show, Miami Vice had aired two seasons Blue Velvet would come out the following September, which kind of handled somewhat vaguely similar themes like gangsters and s and m and human trafficking, but Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: a bit more artistic merit and a cohesive Katie Marinello: Like any subtlety whatsoever. Claire Fisher: Yeah. And like a plot. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: So, and meanwhile there's this. Katie Marinello: There's this. Okay, so what do we should, I should have done some more research on this. What do we know [00:07:00] about the events leading up to Carrie going to rehab for the first time, Claire Fisher: Only what I remember reading in her various memoirs, which was that she was an addict and it was not until later that it was diagnosed as a, that she was self-medicating with bipolar Katie Marinello: right? Claire Fisher: but in the eighties she was on pills, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: of them. And her family intervened several times to get her into rehab. Katie Marinello: Yeah. And she, by all accounts, never really became clean. She had moments of sobriety. She had moments of having it more under control I guess. But Todd writes in his book, Billie has publicly said she was never truly sober entirely for long periods of time. So Claire Fisher: Mm-hmm. Katie Marinello: yeah. So interesting that she's in a movie about, ostensibly, about a pimp who keeps his girls drugged up to [00:08:00] keep them under control. Claire Fisher: Yeah. The pimp is played by Frank Gorshin. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: mentioned the Ridler from the Katie Marinello: Yes, yes, yes, he is. I recognized him immediately, which is unusual for me. So, okay, so. Like we said, there's different arcs in this movie. There's no cohesion to them whatsoever except for the captain, because they're all part of the vice squad. The, the movie opens with Did you wanna do times? I'm sorry. Were there any more times? Okay, good. Claire Fisher: I mentioned this is really the C plot, but I figured we'd start with Carrie's Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: then we can Katie Marinello: Right. So what I was gonna say is that this is divided up into arcs, like you said, Carrie's is like the shortest arc. But it opens with white text on black background about, it's kind of like a precursor to law and order, right? Claire Fisher: yeah. Katie Marinello: But not as cool, not as cool. It doesn't have the, in the criminal justice system. But does say something like, the Hollywood Vice [00:09:00] Squad is unique and Claire Fisher: like the busiest vice squad in the country. Katie Marinello: And this is the, all these stories are based on true stories is what? Basically. Claire Fisher: I, I can't believe, I mean, obviously prostitution busts happen. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: happens with Carrie's character? I wanna go into it when we get there, Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: of what she's busting, actually being illegal Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: of a weird artifact of Katie Marinello: All right, so let's start there. So we meet her um, oh. As, as a working girl, Claire Fisher: yeah, she's out on Hollywood Boulevard. She is picking up a guy, you know, she tells him to pull around and then they're negotiating and then it's revealed she's actually a police officer and this is a sting. Right. Katie Marinello: right? And these, and the two other cops whose names are, hold on. I have this Chavez and Miller, officer Chavez and Miller kind of pull in and, and take the guy down. And she's like, why did you move in? I had that handled, like she's trying to establish herself [00:10:00] as. A cop in her own right. Claire Fisher: Mm-hmm. Katie Marinello: kind of, oh, she's just like a cute little lady. Claire Fisher: Yeah. She says, listen, Rambo, I can do anything you can do. And he says, bet you can't grow a beard. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Which just goes to show he doesn't understand women at all, or skincare. Claire Fisher: I mean, police departments in the United States mostly didn't hire women for detective work Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: the 1970s. So this was still when it was kind of unusual to have a female police Katie Marinello: Oh, it's still, I mean, I, it's still rampant. Just listened to a podcast about this not too long ago, about how women are treated in the police force. So this is completely, I mean, we've all worked with people who don't wanna work with women, right? No matter what career we're in, even in very female oriented careers. So it's not surprising, but that's, that's the setup. So that. Claire Fisher: it, she had one funny line in the scene where the, the guy is offering her [00:11:00] $55 for a hand job, and she says, he says, would you do it for 55? And she says That's more like a speed limit than an actual offer. Katie Marinello: Yeah, Claire Fisher: But I'm just, Katie Marinello: I did. I did appreciate that. So then she is walking home one day, right? And she sees a bunch of kids. Claire Fisher: or Katie Marinello: Yeah, she's out for a jog. She sees a bunch of kids like looking over a fence into the backyard and she's what's going on? And they all run away and she looks over and sees this S&M pornography set. And, sorry, it's not funny, but it is because they literally say well, what do you expect out of him? He is only 16. It's that's how, that's how she finds out. They might be using underage actors. They just shout that out. Claire Fisher: yeah. So, okay. My first thought was, okay, that is not how porn and production works. However, ask me what a gentleman your brother-in-law is. Katie Marinello: What a gentleman is, my brother-in-law.[00:12:00] Claire Fisher: When I told him I was about to have to Google whether or not it was illegal to make BDSM porn in California in 1986, he insisted on having me use his, Kagi account instead, Kagi iss a search engine with better privacy features than Google. 'cause he didn't want me to end up on a list, Katie Marinello: Of course now you're putting it out in a podcast, so we're gonna be able to list anyway. Claire Fisher: since it's on a podcast, we can establish that this was entirely for the purposes of commenting, not personal interest. Katie Marinello: Right? Claire Fisher: Okay. Katie Marinello: carry on. Alright. Claire Fisher: All right. This is not how porn production works anymore. Katie Marinello: Okay. Yeah. Claire Fisher: let me give you a little history of the laws around child porn in the United States. Katie Marinello: Ugh. Claire Fisher: Until 1978, child porn was legal at the federal level, and in 48 out of 50 states, it Katie Marinello: Wait, wait, wait. Define child porn. Do you mean using underage actors or do you mean children? Claire Fisher: children as young as three years old were being put in commercially produced adult magazines. Katie Marinello: Okay, back up. [00:13:00] Trigger warning. Trigger warning. Trigger warning. Claire Fisher: Okay. Trigger Katie Marinello: the way, the the correct term now the more correct term is CSAM, yeah Claire Fisher: Yeah. Okay. Katie Marinello: Child sex abuse material. Claire Fisher: Sure. The Protection of Children Against Sexual Exploitation Act of 1977 made it illegal to produce pornography of anyone under the age of 16. Katie Marinello: Okay. Claire Fisher: So it was 16. Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: Then in 1984, the Child Protection Act raised that age to 18. So at the time that this movie was made, that had been like the year before, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: And when it came out, it had been two years since it became illegal to film a 16-year-old performing sexual acts right As for whether it's legal to make pornography with s and m, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: there was a little more here. Okay, the, in 1972, the Supreme Court case, Miller v [00:14:00] California defined obscenity with three criteria that must be met for a media item to be legitimately subjected to state regulatory bans. And it was one, whether the average person applying contemporary community standards would find that the work taken as a whole appeals to the prurient interest. Two, whether the work depicts or describes in an offensive way, sexual conduct or excretory functions as specifically defined by applicable state law. And three, whether the work taken as a whole lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value. Forgive the legalese. It's somewhat unwieldy, but Katie Marinello: So if they recite Shakespeare naked, it's fine. Claire Fisher: Well, actually, yeah. Yeah. Katie Marinello: While having sex, while having sex, while having, Claire Fisher: being Katie Marinello: mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: technically the part Katie Marinello: Yeah. No. Claire Fisher: As of the Supreme Court case, New York v Ferber in 1982 pornographic material featuring children was deemed to be completely unprotected by the First Amendment because it can never have serious artistic value. [00:15:00] So that's when it arguably became illegal to produce any sexual material, Starring children. However, it was legal and it is legal to produce porn starring adults. when this movie was made, authorities in California were actively trying to shut down pornography production, which meant that the majority of porn shoots did have to happen in private homes Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. secret locations. Claire Fisher: this changed in 1989, with a ruling by the California Supreme Court that the federal Supreme Court declined to review. um, in a case called People v. Freeman. Freeman had been arrested for pandering The Supreme Court of California ruled that the pandering statute covered only hiring people to sexually gratify yourself or another customer, not hiring them to perform [00:16:00] suggestive acts on camera. meant that hardcore porn production in California was effectively legalized, which is why today uh, am told a great deal of the legal porn produced in this country is produced in California in organized studio Katie Marinello: Yes. Claire Fisher: with sets and location scouts and you know, contracts for the actors and Katie Marinello: Yeah. Like Labor protections, STD testing, that kind of thing. Claire Fisher: Right. So since this movie came out three years before that ruling, technically it's not out of the question that porn could be produced in a privately owned home. However, the backyard in plain sight of neighbor's children is not Katie Marinello: Yes, yes. Claire Fisher: also highly unlikely, though still possible, that they would openly be using an underage actor because the age had recently been raised. It's possible that like people who had been working when they were 16 didn't wanna quit Katie Marinello: right. Claire Fisher: that age was raised. [00:17:00] It would be dicey for any serious pornography producer, even. At the time to openly hire someone who was 16. Now, we do have recorded cases of people who had fake IDs making movies that were released in 1986 and 1987 that later were withdrawn from circulation after their ages were revealed. not gonna go into too much more because I feel like I've already talked about this enough and some of these words are not in the Bible. but Katie Marinello: it makes me, yes, it makes me sick. Claire Fisher: is a weird plot point. This Katie Marinello: Well, a couple couple of things. Couple of things. One couple. CC, they could argue that they were not in plain sight of the neighbor's children, because the neighbor's children did have to climb up and look over. And the, the fence was solid. But I still think that the backyard would've been a dicey place to choose to do it. Of course, lots of porn now is done in private homes because a lot of porn now is [00:18:00] amateur or done via, you know, crowdsourcing like OnlyFans, Claire Fisher: Sure, but I mean, in terms of the Katie Marinello: yeah. Professional porn. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: done porn, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: it, this is unlikely. And of course she then goes to Captain Jensen, the Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: who's consistent across arcs Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: let me investigate this. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: And Katie Marinello: And he's, Claire Fisher: well, you come on too strong to investigate. I'm like, okay. Katie Marinello: ugh. Claire Fisher: At this point I was just thinking this is unintentionally hilarious. This movie is supposed to be like super dark and serious. They aren't making jokes, but I mean, it's just so over the top melodramatic that I was cracking up every third scene. Katie Marinello: I actually don't think that's true. I think some of it is meant to be funny. And the fact, yeah, the problem is, at least from the reviews that I read, the problem is that it switches so quickly between true, really dark stuff and comedy, like the fight scenes, the hand-to-hand combat. There's no way they meant for that to be legitimate [00:19:00] because it was just, I mean, the guy who plays and we haven't talked to him yet, but the guy who plays Chang is like a TaeKwonDo master, and so that's not how he would actually fight, right? Like Claire Fisher: Okay. Katie Marinello: of it's supposed to be funny, but there's not any tonal consistency across it, so there's not any real way to know. But yeah, so in this scene, I'm totally on her side, right? Ugh, she's gotta go work with these boys who clearly don't respect her. And they're telling her she comes on too strong. And that's what they always tell women who are too much and then they actually go to the house and she legitimately just wants to break the law immediately. Claire Fisher: really does. She is a Katie Marinello: Yes. Genuinely. Claire Fisher: long enough to tell us who plays Captain Jensen? Who Katie Marinello: Oh sure. Claire Fisher: Chavez? Okay, Katie Marinello: absolutely. So, captain Jensen is Ronnie Cox. He's best known for his roles in Beverly Hills, cop Robocop and Total Recall. So just lots of propaganda. He's also active as a [00:20:00] musician. He's performed over a hundred times per year at festivals and theaters. As of 2012, he had a guest role on Star Trek, the Next Generation as Captain Edward Jellico. Jellicle songs. And then since 2022, he's reprised that role in several episodes of Star Trek Prodigy. Who else did you wanna hear about? Her? Her Claire Fisher: Chavez, Katie Marinello: Miller and Chavez. Claire Fisher: to Katie Marinello: Yep. All right. So Eli, Phil Casados is Chavez best known for playing Ishi in the 1978 NBC television movie, Ishi the east of his tribe, and as Sheriff Sam Coyote in the CBS Action series, Walker Texas Ranger. He died in 2016 and Miller, there was very little information about, his name is Tom Everett, and he's best known for his performances in political films such as Air Force One and 13 Days. Claire Fisher: So the next time we see Martin, Miller and Chavez, who I don't think ever get first names, Katie Marinello: [00:21:00] They do not. Claire Fisher: they're driving around the house in a surveillance van and she says, well, can't we just. Do something now, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: that minor in there Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: one of them says, yeah, and someone could be leading a prayer meeting. You dunno Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: going on inside there. And they say we need to get probable cause, we need to apply for warrants. And she's acting like this is news. I'm like, that's, that's day one of Katie Marinello: It's like she's never gone to the academy. She's, she's being Elliot Stabler. Right. Or all these shows that we see where the, the cops are like, well, we don't have time for that, so Claire Fisher: So Katie Marinello: don't you hear someone screaming, but not in any sort of way that's like competent or interesting. It's just what do you mean we can't just run in guns blazing? Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: And so these, these like Rambo types, right? Who she's like been criticizing this whole time. She even says to her captain, they don't, they resent working with women. And he even says to them like, grow up and work with her. And then it's oh, no, no, no. It's not that she's a woman, it's that she's really bad at this. Claire Fisher: Yeah. [00:22:00] It's that she doesn't care about whether the case will hold up in court. Katie Marinello: Right. She just wants to get him outta there. Yeah. Claire Fisher: Yeah. So then there's the random visit from her mother. Katie Marinello: Yeah. So she's on the phone like getting a background check on the director right from, from New York because he's been busted a couple times for s and m, which, Claire Fisher: Yeah, I looked that up. That's not a thing you can be busted for. I suppose that's probably meant to be short for he got busted for producing porn Katie Marinello: mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: which would've been illegal at the Katie Marinello: That's what I assumed too. Yeah. Not that Claire Fisher: a s and m was not an, is not illegal . Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: But you can be charged with assault if the person you perform it with says that you've violated Katie Marinello: consent. Yeah. Claire Fisher: But I mean, you could be charged with. Assault in any situation where someone says they did not consent. So, you know, Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: remember to Katie Marinello: you should be, yes. Claire Fisher: Remember to get affirmative Katie Marinello: Affirmative and ongoing consent. Yes. So, [00:23:00] so, yeah. So she's on the phone and her mother kind of comes around and she says, can't you do something else? Or, or are you done playing? Policeman? Claire Fisher: And she says, that's police officer, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: and then mom drinker tea. Katie Marinello: How can I, there's a chip in my cup, and that's literally all we see of mom. Claire Fisher: Yeah. And that was literally just put in so that Carrie Fisher would show up for work so that Katie Marinello: Cool. Claire Fisher: bring her. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: Because then the next thing Betty Martin does is she sneaks into the unlocked garage of the house where this porn is being produced with a flashlight and conducts a blatantly illegal Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: making way overblown, horrified faces at all the bondage gear she finds. It was like, ma'am, you wouldn't have to be shocked by the sex dungeon if you hadn't broken into the sex dungeon. Katie Marinello: Not to mention that the bondage is not illegal. That's not the illegal part, Claire Fisher: Right? This is such, bring me my pearls so I can clutch Katie Marinello: right? Claire Fisher: of, they Katie Marinello: yeah. Claire Fisher: to shock the [00:24:00] audience. I guess, okay. S and m imagery was not yet mainstream Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: in the way that it now is. Now you practically see it being used to sell like makeup, Katie Marinello: Oh yeah. Claire Fisher: So, yeah, in the eighties, this would've been like mildly shocking, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: maybe to people who weren't in that scene, but it just comes across to me like, this woman broke in, in search of something to be upset Katie Marinello: Right. Absolutely. No, absolutely. Like it's, yeah. Yeah. And you know, the weird closeups of the. Like different costumes and like every time we see the porn actually being performed, I just feel like to their credit, it's not sexy. Right? They're not like exploiting that in that way, but it's just like clearly for shock value, like you said, and Claire Fisher: when then Chavez scold, her for like breaking in. He's everything you did is illegal. We'll never be able to use that evidence. I'm like, yeah, [00:25:00] exactly. So why did you do Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: went into, in search of proof of illegal behavior, you didn't find any. Katie Marinello: Right, Claire Fisher: even if you had, that wouldn't have been any way to bring it up. Katie Marinello: right. Claire Fisher: tell the judge? I stumbled into a man's garage. Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: But she does say that her background check turned up, the cameraman got busted for child porn in the past and did six months in the county jail. So, That would've been, at the time, possession of child porn was not illegal in California. Production of Katie Marinello: mm-hmm. So that would've been Claire Fisher: was busted for actually filming C-S-A-M-C-S-A-M materials. Right. Okay. So at least like here, maybe she's onto something, but it, she's just. Katie Marinello: but that's, she was onto something before she broke into the garage, so there was no reason. Claire Fisher: break it. Katie Marinello: she's almost caught, she's almost caught in the garage. Right. Somebody walks in, so it becomes Claire Fisher: in looking for something and then walks right back out, which are like, so did you not find the thing? Katie Marinello: Right. [00:26:00] Right. Yeah. Claire Fisher: so then they're surveilling the house. They hear someone screaming inside. I guess it's Miller says, oh, we should call for a warrant. And Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: we just need to, we need to go in there. We hear somebody screaming. Then they break in and start punching people and pulling their guns despite not having any proof that anything at all illegal is Katie Marinello: This Claire Fisher: of Katie Marinello: pissed me off so much because first of all, and listen, this, this movie is not kind to sex workers, right? Like it doesn't see sex workers as either victims or professionals who are doing work, right? They, they don't have any of that. So they, but yeah, they're not, it's not like they go in to see if the kid is okay or to interview the cameraman or the producer Claire Fisher: Right? Katie Marinello: director. They literally just go in and start hitting everybody like you, punching everybody, pulling their guns out. Yeah. Claire Fisher: And so if later on you're going to have to explain [00:27:00] that you went in without a warrant because you heard someone screaming and you thought someone was in danger. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: did nothing to ensure anyone's safety. Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: is bad police work. Okay. Katie Marinello: to ascertain what was happening. Yeah. Claire Fisher: Someone was screaming during the production of a film for all, you know, they were like filming a horror movie and had, you know, a perfectly reason for this. Katie Marinello: exactly. Claire Fisher: Carrie actually clocks the director pretty hard with a baseball bat and then says, please try to run while she has him at gunpoint. 'cause Katie Marinello: Yep. Claire Fisher: that would've been considered a clean shooting if you shot someone who was trying to escape. Katie Marinello: Now it just depends on what zip code you live in. Claire Fisher: yeah. Right. And that's the last we see at Betty Martin. Katie Marinello: Oh, no, no, no. Let's, let's definitely say that now Chavez respects her as partner because, because why? She's done nothing to prove herself. But he is I got you. 'cause she's can I borrow your cuffs or whatever? He is I got you partner. Kay. She hasn't redeemed herself in my opinion.[00:28:00] Claire Fisher: Yeah. So. Yeah, this is 25 minutes of the total Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: it's, Katie Marinello: is to its credit under two hours. As you know. That is the one thing I will give it positive marks for. Claire Fisher: It's an hour and 41 minutes long. Katie Marinello: yeah, it's an hour and Claire Fisher: fif, that is 15 minutes longer than the original Westworld. Okay. Katie Marinello: It's an hour and 41 minutes long. And I kept pausing it to see much longer I had left. So I'm not saying it was a tight hour and 41 or that it did anything with the time that it was given. I'm just saying. So, yeah. So we never see the, we never see her again. We never see her partners again. We never find out if they were able to arrest anyone or if she got in trouble for assaulting that guy like nothing. Claire Fisher: Was the kid even actually 16 or were they just joking Katie Marinello: Right, right. Maybe he just looked 16. Yeah. I say that all the time to people, right? Oh, come on, you're like 20 or whatever. When they're like, you know, Claire Fisher: 12. Katie Marinello: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.[00:29:00] Claire Fisher: so the, it's never established if she even uncovered any evidence of criminality. Right. Katie Marinello: Yep. Claire Fisher: potentially 'cause producing porn would've been illegal, Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: of. Katie Marinello: Maybe. Yeah, depending. Claire Fisher: at the time, hardcore porn was illegal in Katie Marinello: And we never see anyone actually having sex. Claire Fisher: never see anyone having sex. We see people who are like, tied up Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: Hey, you can film people being tied up for reasons other than sexual interest. I mean, obviously you can also do it for reasons of sexual interest, Katie Marinello: Like you said, like most Abercrombie and Fit photo shoots are, you know. Claire Fisher: there's several scenes of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Dune, where Harrison Ford is shirtless and tied onto a thing being like, you know, whipped that was released in mainstream theaters with a rating of pg. Okay. Katie Marinello: Wasn't Wonder Woman on at this point. Wonder Woman was like, that was the whole concept of that TV show. Claire Fisher: Yeah, so there's nothing about this that actually even comes across as all that [00:30:00] extreme, at least not by, know if it would've seemed more extreme in the eighties. I guess it would've, but at least by the standards of like modern stuff, it looks ridiculously tame. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: So anyway, Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: I guess we can at least briefly mention the a and b plots as long as we're here, but there's not much to say. Katie Marinello: There's some stuff to say. Claire Fisher: I guess Katie Marinello: All right, well let's go to, so there's actually like a, a, like a one, A, Claire Fisher: Uhhuh Katie Marinello: a a. So it opens with this like kind of not really a, a plot. I wouldn't consider this one of the official arcs, but you've got Chang and Stevens. Claire Fisher: Chang Katie Marinello: Who are Claire Fisher: are what I'm counting as the B plot. Katie Marinello: Okay. I'm counting the B plot as the gambling ring. Claire Fisher: Oh my God. There's a fourth thing in Katie Marinello: I know. And it's not the same people, so All right. Well, let's, let's Claire Fisher: Okay. Sure. Fine. Chang and Stevens, [00:31:00] two beat cops in charge of Katie Marinello: busting hookers. Claire Fisher: hookers, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: sex Katie Marinello: Sex workers. Yes. Claire Fisher: In the first five minutes of the movie, one of them is pretending to be an Asian tourist who's picking up, a transgender prostitute. And then the trans prostitute pulls her wig off and pulls a knife on him to carjack him. And I'm like, okay, if you just wanted to commit a carjacking, there's easier Katie Marinello: So many better ways. Yeah. Claire Fisher: waiting on Hollywood Boulevard all night for someone to pick you up. Like you just carjack people at a red light Katie Marinello: So this is the first five minutes of this film. It's very much a oh, I was like, oh crap. This is gonna be anti-Asian racism again. I feel like we've talked about anti-Asian racism a lot lately. That's a little bit subverted, but don't worry. It's anti-trans Claire Fisher: Yeah. And then, Katie Marinello: or trans transphobic or homophobic, depending on the cross-dresser, whatever. We don't really get that far. Claire Fisher: Yeah. And dialogue like drag queen tried to two 11 me. Katie Marinello: Right. [00:32:00] Yeah. Claire Fisher: there's a wildly over the top car chase. But Chang and Stevens recur through the rest of the movie Katie Marinello: Yes. Claire Fisher: ends with, I, I'll skip ahead to the end 'cause that's the next time we see them busting hookers, Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: they Katie Marinello: Sex workers. Claire Fisher: Yeah, they go out in the middle of July Chang is dressed as Santa Claus, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: this will attract more sex workers to him because this is, he says, quote, every hooker's fantasy Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: sleep with Santa Claus. First of all, I highly doubt that, but second of all, it weirdly works Katie Marinello: It does. Claire Fisher: women surround him than have ever worked together in the history of professional orgies. , How many prostitutes were on this block of Hollywood Boulevard? Were they having a convention? Katie Marinello: and it was like Claire Fisher: this a union Katie Marinello: wasn't it? Daytime, Claire Fisher: in the, in broad Katie Marinello: broad daylight. Yeah. I don't see that many women out. I, I don't, granted Hollywood Boulevard is very different now than it was then. We've been there only during touristy [00:33:00] times, Claire Fisher: Uhhuh. Katie Marinello: but Claire Fisher: I, I have seen street walkers sometimes Katie Marinello: never that many. I agree. Claire Fisher: not gathered in packs. They don't move in herds. This side. Katie Marinello: Ma I, yes. Yes. For safety. A couple, but not that. Not that many. No. Claire Fisher: he has Katie Marinello: so it's so stupid. And then they just bust them all there's nothing Claire Fisher: No, no, no. They try to Katie Marinello: bus, Claire Fisher: and then when they find out he is a cop, they all beat him up, which is literally the opposite of how interacting with vice cops goes Katie Marinello: right? Claire Fisher: And he tells the, the, I guess the pimp who beats him up. You can forget about getting any presents this year. End of movie. Katie Marinello: Yes. It does end very, very much like with a thud. Okay, so that is like plot zero or plot Claire Fisher: Fine. Katie Marinello: D. I don't know what you want call it. But anyway, so do [00:34:00] you want me to tell you who they are? Claire Fisher: Fine. Katie Marinello: Okay. The most interesting thing about this is that Stevens is played by Joey Travolta. Do you know who Joey Travolta is? Claire Fisher: John Travolta's, kid, brother. Katie Marinello: Close John Travolta's older brother. Claire Fisher: Oh, Katie Marinello: So he understands what it's like to have a younger sibling who's much more impressive than him. Claire Fisher: Okay. Katie Marinello: He started his singing career in 1978, made his acting debut in the feature film Sunnyside for Sunnyside for Film Wave Productions. Other notable roles include work with director John Landis on multiple feature films. He graduated from Patterson State College. They're from New Jersey, woo, New Jersey. Claire Fisher: Woo. Katie Marinello: He had a degree in special education and he has been a disability education teacher in New Jersey on and off in his career. In 2005, he produced a documentary called Normal People Scare Me, directed by a 15-year-old autistic boy who he mentored and around this time he founded Inclusion Films. Which involves individuals with disabilities in the process of making films. [00:35:00] So Disability Rights Month, Disability Pride month. I thought that was interesting. The other one Chang is also from New Jersey. , He's best known for playing Harry Callahan's partner Inspector Alquan in the fifth Dirty Harry movie. Claire Fisher: Oh, I thought he looked familiar. Okay. Katie Marinello: Really? Okay. He's also known for the Kentucky Fried Movie and Caveman. Claire Fisher: The fifth, Dirty Harry is a bit goofy, but yeah, he's Katie Marinello: I mean, by the time you get to the fifth of anything. Okay. So that is them. All right. So should we get to the A ish plot, or do you wanna go through the B ish plot? Claire Fisher: I guess the Bish plot, Katie Marinello: Okay. Claire Fisher: plot is the, the Katie Marinello: The gambling ring. Yes. Claire Fisher: Okay. Miller and Chavez have a bookie, Jesse, who's also kind of an informant for them. Like part-time he keeps them off his back by informing on other bookies, Katie Marinello: Bad news. It's not Miller and Chavez Claire Fisher: who is it? Katie Marinello: it's an entirely different group of cops.[00:36:00] Claire Fisher: Well, what are their names? Katie Marinello: Daily and Tank. Claire Fisher: Okay. Daily and Tank. And Jesse they're trying to get Jesse to inform for them on Lucchese and East Coast gangster who's moving in on the LA scene. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: and it's not going very well. And ese has his people beat Jesse up. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: You Katie Marinello: Tells them to go f themselves. Claire Fisher: tells the vice cops like, you know, I can't afford your friendship. Right. ' Katie Marinello: Em to shove it. Claire Fisher: yeah. One of them has a little girl who won't go to bed unless he calls to tell her goodnight from a payphone while he is on a stakeout. And he's oh, pumpkin, I, we'll go out tomorrow. And then he has to beat up like six people randomly. They, they interrupt a riot while they're tailing Lucchese. And his partner says, does pumpkin know this is what you do for a living? Katie Marinello: And he says, I hope not. Claire Fisher: And then Katie Marinello: Dailey. Claire Fisher: that. Katie Marinello: Yep. So [00:37:00] Dailey is played by Ben Frank. The best part about his Wikipedia page is it says not to be confused with founding father Ben Franklin was like, there was no chance of that happening. Claire Fisher: I am not confused in the least. Katie Marinello: he was a veteran character actor with a char, a career spanning 28 years. He appeared in 20 motion movies and 127 television roles. He also appeared in 20 stage plays, including at the then renowned West Hollywood Gallery and Tank. He is billed as HB Haggerty. Do you know what HB stands for? Claire Fisher: No. Katie Marinello: Hard Boiled Haggerty. That was his ring name because he was in fact a professional wrestler, Claire Fisher: Oh Katie Marinello: For many years before becoming an actor. He also was a professional football player and then successful character actor. So his real name was Don Stan Sack. But I really love the name Hard Boiled Haggerty. And then Jesse [00:38:00] was an American actor who appeared in more than 70 movies and numerous television series, and he was best known for his roles in 1970s films such as Live and Let Die and the Blaxploitation film, Superfly Black Caesar, and Hell Up in Harlem. Claire Fisher: Which one was he in? Live and Let Die. Katie Marinello: I don't know. Claire Fisher: Okay. Because I have seen that movie, Katie Marinello: you have. Claire Fisher: There were a lot of characters in it, and some of them turned out to be the same person in disguise, so Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: yeah. Katie Marinello: I liked him though. Oh, I found out he was a voice actor and I was like, well that makes sense, because I thought he had a really nice voice. So Claire Fisher: So the, A plot Katie Marinello: the a plot such as it is Claire Fisher: probably most notable because it's Robin Wright's film Katie Marinello: Yep. Claire Fisher: she made The Princess Bride a year later and of course has had a great career Katie Marinello: everything that I read about this was immediately like, oh, it was Robin Wright's first role and that was pretty much it. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: Yeah. So like you said, she was in the Princess [00:39:00] Bride. She's Buttercup. She was then Jenny in Forrest Gump, for which she was nominated for a Golden Globe for Best Supporting Actress. Prior to this she was on the soap opera Santa Barbara for 500 episodes or something crazy like that. Because that's how soap operas work. And then from 2013 to 2018, she starred as Claire Underwood in the Netflix political drama series, house of Cards, which earned a Golden Globe Award for Best Actress and six nominations for primetime Emmy awards. In 2016, she was one of the highest paid actresses in the United States. She was making $420,000 per episode of House of Cards. She also had a tumultuous on again, off again marriage slash relationship with Sean Penn, with whom she has two children. Claire Fisher: Okay. Katie Marinello: She's the star of the last season of House of Cards, right Claire Fisher: yeah, Katie Marinello: after Kevin Spacey got canceled. Claire Fisher: so they killed him off. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: Yeah, so, Katie Marinello: But she is also barely in this movie. Claire Fisher: [00:40:00] Nobody is in this movie for very long 'cause nothing comes Katie Marinello: Nothing happens. Yes. Good point. Claire Fisher: The setup is Mrs. Stanton, I think her first name is Pauline Pauline Stanton has come from Ohio to Hollywood because her daughter ran away from home and she hasn't heard from her recently. But one of the girl's friends got a letter saying, oh, I met this guy, James Walsh, and he's gonna help me get into showbiz. And Mrs. Stanton has come out west in order to try to get Captain Jensen to help her figure out what happened to her daughter. Jensen is gonna politely brush her off, but then agrees to help because he knows James Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: and he knows James Walsh is a drug dealer and a pimp. So, Lori Robin Wright is working as a sex worker, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. So Pauline is played by Trish Van, Devre Dever also from New Jersey. Lots of New Jersey people in this film. She first made her mark on the soap opera One Life [00:41:00] to Live. She and fellow actor George C. Scott were known for being a married couple that appeared together in numerous films, most of which were not very well received. She was nominated for a Golden Globe Award for the film, One is a Lonely number and won a Genie Award for the film. The Changeling. This was an interesting thing that I liked. So she co-founded the Free Southern Theater with Scott Cunningham, an African American actor, and they staged plays in fields and at churches in the southern United States for African Americans who wouldn't be able to see live theater otherwise. And then she found, she and Cunningham founded an offshoot theater company, the Poor People's Theater in New York City. Headquartered in the basement of Manhattan's Riverside Church, where I have been several times when I was working for a nonprofit that put on some stuff there. It's a great, great space, and they held similar theatrical pro productions in churches, schools, and on the streets. So I thought that was cool. Claire Fisher: Okay. Yeah, that is Katie Marinello: yeah. [00:42:00] Yep. Claire Fisher: and then James Walsh, we already mentioned is Frank Gorshin. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. An actor, comedian, and impressionist best known for playing the Riddler. Did you know he was nominated for an Emmy award for that performance? Claire Fisher: I did not, but I guess that makes sense. Katie Marinello: I never would've thought if you said, how many Emmy awards was the 1960s version of Batman put up for? I would've said zero, but yeah. He was nominated for an Emmy award for that performance. He made many guest appearances on television variety and talk shows. He also had a memorable role in the 1969 Star Trek episode. Let that Be Your Last Battlefield. Claire Fisher: gonna mention that's the most recent place I've seen him Katie Marinello: As the bigoted half white face. Mm-hmm. Half white half blackface alien Belly from the planet, Sharon. Apparently the Wikipedia says, contrary to popular rumor and several news articles, Gorshin did not receive an Emmy nomination for this role. I've never seen someone specifically say they were not nominated. Claire Fisher: I Katie Marinello: So Claire Fisher: guess somebody was making a joke at the time and it got misreported. I[00:43:00] Katie Marinello: yeah, but I do remember that's one of the few like episodes I really do remember. So there you go. Claire Fisher: Well so, I said earlier this is the most intimidating I've seen him be. Katie Marinello: mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: 'Cause that version of the Riddler was not scary. Katie Marinello: No, he was funny. Yeah. That's the whole point. Claire Fisher: yeah. Katie Marinello: And this guy was known for comedy. You, you know, outside of the. Claire Fisher: the whole time I'm watching him play this you know, super serious human trafficker, murderer, drug dealer, pimp. I'm, couldn't stop thinking about, so there's this story he told a lot later in life and Adam West confirmed it that Adam West once talked him into going to an orgy after they'd been filming for Batman, still in their costumes and staying in character. Katie Marinello: Oh my God. Claire Fisher: And then he and Adam West got asked to leave the orgy every time I see him doing anything, I giggle. 'cause I'm like, that's the crazy guy who like crashed an orgy dressed as the Riddler Katie Marinello: [00:44:00] It's very weird to me that that was Adam West's idea, but okay. Claire Fisher: I Katie Marinello: Um, Claire Fisher: it be out of West Idea Katie Marinello: I dunno. He just seems so asexual, Claire Fisher: Oh, please. Adam West was not asexual. Katie Marinello: you know what I mean? I never carry firearms of any kind. Anyway Claire Fisher: You and I remember Batman very differently. Katie Marinello: for God's sakes, let's move back into, and please stop laughing. This is a very serious topic. Deep breath. So this is the story that is arguably the most fleshed out. 'cause we actually do see both sides of the story, right? The cops are trying to track Walsh down and. Walsh's interactions with Lori and the other people who work for him. Basically his MO is to get these women hooked on heroin Claire Fisher: Mm-hmm. Katie Marinello: and then hold it over their heads that they owe him money for heroin, and then have them die of accidental overdoses when [00:45:00] he's done with them. Claire Fisher: Very serious. Actually, a thing that does happen Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: So like I would believe that this is ripped from the headlines. What I didn't buy about it is the cops are looking for a way to arrest him. I'm like, drug bust. Katie Marinello: Right. All of those are, yeah. Claire Fisher: Drug bust. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: Or charge him with pandering. Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: Which was a crime at the time. Um, Instead they're trying to build a case against him for what they call Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: The definition in the California penal code is human trafficking. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: To do that, you have to prove that a person was deprived of their liberty. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: simply you know, convinced to do sex work in exchange for drugs. It has to be that they were being held against their will. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: So the major part of this plot is actually that they send a cop undercover as a human trafficker to offer to buy some of Walsh's. [00:46:00] They call them girls, we'll call them sex workers. Katie Marinello: Or they call them artwork. Claire Fisher: Right. So. Katie Marinello: they put this guy undercover and his name is Claire Fisher: The character's name is Katie Marinello: Hawkins. Yep. Leon Isaac Kennedy, still alive, but retired. He was an actor. A disc jockey film producer, playwright. he's known for Martel being Martel two Sweet Gordon in Jama Franca Penitentiary, penitentiary Two and Penitentiary three, as well as FBI agent Marcus Jackson in the Lone Wolf, McQuaid and Leon, the lover Johnson in Body and the Soul alongside his then wife, Jane Kennedy. Claire Fisher: I haven't heard of any of these things, but I Katie Marinello: Me neither. Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: So this is the only time that the plots cross over really, because he eventually is helped by Chang and [00:47:00] Stevens. Hawkins and Walsh meet Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: with the Katie Marinello: times. Yeah. Claire Fisher: Yeah, and they meet up several times. And finally and Jensen goes to see an informant who confirms that Lori is working for Walsh and Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: out. Mrs. Stanton has been out looking for her daughter on Hollywood Boulevard, but still doesn't quite believe her daughter's doing sex Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: But basically it, it comes to a head when Hawk says, I wanna rent three of your artworks. Katie Marinello: to buy them outright. Claire Fisher: three of your But Walsh says he has like a. A test first, which is he has sent Lori to a motel with his muscle man, Danielo Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: with a shotgun. Chang and Stevens go with his assistant whose name I missed, to the motel [00:48:00] to quote unquote check out the goods. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: And then it's revealed that Walsh's quote, main lady Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: is holding a gun on Hawk under the table. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: And if he doesn't get a call in the next 20 minutes saying that either Chang or Stevens actually had sex with Lori, then he's going to know that they're undercover cops and he is going to have them all killed. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. By a shotgun. Yes. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Stevens says to Chang if you so much as touch her, we lose the case. Katie Marinello: Yeah. I really appreciated that. Like Chang wouldn't know that Claire Fisher: yeah, Katie Marinello: it's been well established that they're both pretty well versed in what the law rules are. Claire Fisher: Yeah, that's generally, that's definitely just for the audience. 'cause yeah, in general, undercover cops are not supposed to actually have sex with sex workers. They are um, Katie Marinello: Or otherwise break the law at all. Yes. Claire Fisher: if so, then that could be an entrapment issue. so Chang is [00:49:00] in a motel room with Lori Katie Marinello: Trying to just kinda talk to her. Claire Fisher: Yeah. And she's kind of like, Katie Marinello: let's just get this over with. Claire Fisher: let me wash my hands. And you see him opening the window in the bathroom and he is can't we have another drink? Oh, let me hang up my jacket. And Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: him go in the closet to hang up his Katie Marinello: What's the rush? Let's, let's talk business. Claire Fisher: This leads to a shootout, Katie Marinello: mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: In the restaurant. Katie Marinello: Yes. Claire Fisher: Hawkins gets shot Walsh runs out of the restaurant. And then they arrest Veronica and Jensen says, get her to tell you where they took Chang and Stevens. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: and then a beat cop just walks off screen and then comes back and says, they're at the Tropic Island Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: Hawkins' partner Judy goes to find Walsh, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: away in the confusion. Meanwhile, Stevens and Walsh's Lieutenant. He like slams the lieutenant's head into a dashboard and drives back to the motel. Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: Jensen shows up in a patrol car. Then two other patrol cars show up, and they all know there's a [00:50:00] shotgun in the closet. And like Stevens knows which room they're in. So he climbs in through the bathroom window Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: and I'm like, okay. Earlier people were kicking down doors to shut down porn productions kick down the door Katie Marinello: Right, Claire Fisher: a, a teenage victim of sex trafficking has a shotgun in the closet. Kick this door down please. Now would be a good time. Katie Marinello: I guess they were worried that would lead to shooting, but Claire Fisher: Well, at least Katie Marinello: it does anyway. Claire Fisher: one cop does get shot with the shotgun Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: range, but it's not one of the cops with names, Katie Marinello: So it's fine. So it's fine. Claire Fisher: yeah. Katie Marinello: Red shirt, he is a red shirt. Claire Fisher: and Jensen then kills Danielo, who's hiding in the closet Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: Lori, who's screaming hysterically. Katie Marinello: Yes. Claire Fisher: then Judy chases down Walsh. He draws a gun, she kills him. Katie Marinello: So then we're in the hospital with Lori and Jensen, and he's taking her statement and then he says your mother is outside and we have this beautiful, wonderful moment that has no buildup [00:51:00] whatsoever. The way she says that she doesn't wanna see her mom, because her mom only ever cared about what people thought or like what appearances were, and she doesn't care about her. And I was like, maybe there could have been any foreshadowing for this whatsoever, like from when the mom's talking to captain or the couple times we see Lori. But nothing so. He says, well, she came all the way out here and she's been out there looking for you, and I don't think that's somebody who doesn't care about you. And then he walks out into the hallway and says I'm sorry she doesn't wanna see you. And then I guess Lori immediately changes her mind. Claire Fisher: Yeah, you hear her say, mom, and they embrace was okay. I thought they might be going for a twist here. A twist that was also used in the MacGyver episode about human trafficking. I might note where like the reason why she ran away from home is that the family is just as abusive if not more abusive than Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Claire Fisher: And [00:52:00] so she feels safer with the pimp. If that's the case here, they don't go into it at all. It is mentioned earlier that Lori was raised by a single Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: it's possible that there were other tensions in that relationship. But you know, I dunno, asking the police to look for your missing daughter is like the bare minimum of maternal affection. Katie Marinello: No, I, I agree, but I don't think any of it has any emotional resonance because none of it is set up. Right. Claire Fisher: No, no. None of it's Katie Marinello: We get the entire rise and fall of this estrangement between the mother and daughter in that one scene. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: And I mean, she comes across the country to find her daughter because she hasn't heard from her in a while. So they were in touch in theory. Claire Fisher: I think she said her daughter ran away. Katie Marinello: Oh, really? Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: Oh, Claire Fisher: this movie is very, very, very bad. Katie Marinello: It's very bad. [00:53:00] Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: and I just felt sad that Carrie Fisher ended up having to work in it. 'cause you know, Katie Marinello: Oh. 'cause she would've been so good in Clue. Claire Fisher: she could have been Katie Marinello: That's such a good movie. And I would've so much rather watched that one. Claire Fisher: But she could, I mean, she was very sick by this Katie Marinello: she was very sick. Claire Fisher: If you get declared uninsurable in Hollywood, that's the kiss of death. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: I mean, Robert Downey Jr. Only got to have a comeback after that because Mel Gibson personally paid the insurance bond for him Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: of movies after he got sober. And Robert Downey Jr. actually is sober and has been now for 25 years. Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: Fisher never fully got sober, so. Katie Marinello: but I also feel like there are so many people who've done so many worse things than her Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: who are still getting to work, so. Claire Fisher: a little bit, it overlaps with the fact that her mental illness actually did make her very unreliable. She Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: that. and a little bit it overlaps with women don't get as many second Katie Marinello: Mm. Claire Fisher: as men do. Katie Marinello: Yep. Claire Fisher: [00:54:00] Don't think her problems with finding work at this point were just about the drugs. I Katie Marinello: No. Claire Fisher: been issues with her ability to show up, hit her mark, and know her lines, which were, people probably assumed it was the drugs. It was almost certainly her mental health was crumbling at this point. Um, know that she stayed sober this time for about a year at least. 'cause it was during that time that she actually ended up dating a US representative. Katie Marinello: Oh, yeah. Claire Fisher: and, one of the stories in one of her memoirs about going out , on a double date with him, and Ted Kennedy involves her being the only sober one at the table, Katie Marinello: Right, right. Yes. Claire Fisher: She was trying to stay sober at this Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: life, but that then meant she had to face up to the realities of her financial situation and the, and the low point she had reached in her career, Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: ended up inspiring her to write Postcards from the Edge and Katie Marinello: Which I'm so excited is coming up very soon. Claire Fisher: she launched a second career as an [00:55:00] author and screenwriter. Um, Am glad that she got to do that, but I know that she was suffering at this Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: and she really did struggle all the way up until her addiction killed Katie Marinello: Mm-hmm. Claire Fisher: So, watching this, I was just sad. Katie Marinello: Yeah. I will say the one of the IMDB reviews that I read this is a featured review on IMDB from Hessian 4 9 9. And they say they put this in parentheses. Fisher seems like the only member of the cast who doesn't act like she would rather be on the set of some other film. Claire Fisher: I guess she was grateful for the opportunity. Plus Katie Marinello: Hap Claire Fisher: had to work for about a week. I mean, Katie Marinello: happy to not be in rehab anymore, perhaps. But anyway, Claire Fisher: I'd give her one Hutt slayer. She would slay the hut, but like like Katie Marinello: preemptively before he does anything Claire Fisher: wrong. Katie Marinello: that's I disagree. I think she gets more than [00:56:00] one because she has a lot of agency. She's wrong, but that doesn't make her not full of character. She's the only, she's. Claire Fisher: In an interesting way though. Katie Marinello: No, not at all. But she's the only character in this entire movie that gets any sort of like backstory family. Well, I guess there's the one that calls his daughter, but I gotta give her at least a two. Claire Fisher: Okay, Two, Katie Marinello: Two hutt slayers for Betty. She's the only one who gets the last name too. First and last name. What is her name? Betty Claire Fisher: Melton. Katie Marinello: Cher. Sounds good. All right. So what are we watching next? Claire Fisher: From Here to maternity? Katie Marinello: Yes. I do not know anything about this, but I think it's a very funny name. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Apparently if this is the right one, it's only 40 minutes long. Woo. Katie Marinello: Woo. Claire Fisher: So that shouldn't take too long [00:57:00] then, to review. So I'll see you next time. And until then, just remember if my life wasn't funny, it would just be true. Katie Marinello: And that would be unacceptable ​Thanks for listening to another episode of Carried Far, far Away. This podcast is hosted, produced, edited re-edited obsessed over and loved by Katie Marinello and Claire Fisher. You can follow the show on Facebook and Instagram at carriedawaypod You can email us at awaycarriedpod@gmail.com You can follow Claire deadfictionalgirlfriends and Katie katiedaway We are proud to be part of the 12 & 24 network. You can join fans and creators from the Network on Discord by clicking the link in the show notes. All clips used in this podcast are done so under the protection of fair use. Have a wonderful week, and may the force be with you. ​ Katie Marinello: And now our space, grandma wisdom of the week. Claire Fisher: I got to be the only girl an all boy fantasy, and a great role for women. She's a very proactive character and gets job done. So if you're going to get typecast as something, that might as well be it for me. [00:58:00]