Building Esports Dreams

And , just in general , just how was your trip ?

So that's great , because if you know about california , those uber prices are expensive to go everywhere , um . So the concert friday um , got up pretty early get our badges . Wasn't there , wasn't a line or anything , so we just got them .

And then , um , pretty much it was just we walked around , did a lot of like buying stuff because we had a friend that couldn't come , so we made sure we got them a care package of stuff and ended up sending it to them .

So he was like I'm in town , where are you ? I told him where I was , so he pulled up to the starbucks that I was at and like I saw him and like I just booked it , I started running and like we did the full hug and everything .

We came back to the Airbnb and they have never seen Freaknik , the documentary . I made them sit down and watch it .

So me and my good friend Boba went to the con . So my good friend Boba , he's like 6'2" , 6'3" big guy or whatever , and so he had like these beads , like wood beads , on his neck , like a kuma . Yes , just like a kuma . So like everybody kept stopping him and he's not . He's not like the social type , so like it is really interesting .

Um , and so second day we mostly watched like twitch , uh , rivals most of the day . Um , we just like stopped at some booths . I think I stopped at a call of duty booth . Uh , played black ops 6 for a bit . Um , bought some more stuff . That was pretty much the second day . And third day we were just like wrapping up .

Like I met some people that I knew and took some pictures and we went to like this lo-fi event . Um , it was really cool . And then , um , yeah , we just packed up and we left like this is my first time going . So I wasn't like , oh my god , I'm gonna take a bunch of pictures and be all like everywhere .

I was like really chilling or whatever and trying to enjoy my time .

Well , I bought some U-Tunes they had one for MatPat and they had one for Anya . And then at the Twitch Rivals my friend won like a goodie bag and it had a pop in it , so he gave it to me . Jake from State Farm .

So we stopped at FedEx to ship my best friend his stuff .

I got to talk about driving etiquette real quick . All right . If I'm on a long road trip and I'm cruising , I got cruise control on in the slow lane . It's only a two lane highway , if you know for a fact .

If you see me because I know you can see me because I'm in this big red burgundy truck If you see me about to get behind , so close behind this truck , you're in this fast lane , not going fast . That means I have to stop my car , push my brake . My cruise control's done . You just fuck up my whole flow .

Now I gotta wait for your dumb ass to go by , just so I can get behind you and just get back into position , just so I can get around the car that I was trying to get around .

So you already know , if I didn't pay , I would have took my shit and my truck and my ass , would have went to a comfort inn and just drove down here , like I mean , I got the money , money whatever , but it's just like nah yo , that's crazy . And this was on a sunday . I came in on a sunday , man , fuck that , you see why I don't travel like that .

You see why ?

But if you don't mind , kind of just going through what you do within eSports are you a competitor , have you been a competitor before ? And just kind of just overall what you do within it .

. So I'm the director of esports at North Carolina Wesleyan University , so I'm also the head coach and the founder of the program . So on a day-to-day basis I kind of got the same job responsibility as an athletic director .

We have like nine titles 2K NBA , madden , fifa , fortnite , tekken , super Smash Brothers , apex Legends and I'm definitely Madden FIFA , fortnite , tekken , super Smash Brothers , apex Legends and I'm definitely missing .

Um , I didn't compete , um , because at the time I created the program so I didn't have an opportunity to compete at a college , at a collegiate level . I'm very jealous of all the players that I have . I tell them that every day I said I had to build this and you guys get to compete and live the lavish life as far as .

But I did join the stream team in my master's program at Full Sail University . When I was getting my master's I said I ain't going to have time to do competitive gaming . It is what it is . It's my master's program . I don't want to stress myself . I was a one-year accelerated course . So I said I'll just do . You know the stream team and things like that .

But now I did play competitively . So it was just like why didn't you just do it for them , Right ? It was kind of weird , but I definitely did that .

We had 136 people there , um , and the whole world shut down . Everybody had to go home , right . So , um , it was a blessing and a curse all at the same time um , in that realm , damn okay , and I guess what ?

So a lot of people that are professional try to coach in college because college has validity , right , so they have a lot of you know people that follow them . They can recruit very easily because it's like I used to be a professional player , right . So they have a lot of you know people that follow them .

They can recruit very easily because it's like I used to be a professional cop player . I want to go to school to get coached by a professional cop player Same with Duke and Coach K , even though Coach K never played in the NBA . But you go to Duke for you know things like that .

For me , I was a struggling route in the sense of I was an entertainer , I was a streamer um . In the sense of I was an entertainer , I was a streamer Um , but I definitely played uh , competitively . I played 2k um , cod um and things like that . I knew people that were professional , stuff like that , but I wasn't because I didn't do that route .

I took the route of I'm going to need to get my master's degree and I need to create something Right , and that's the ride I took . It was very hard to convince people to literally join instead of just playing at home Because , realistically , what am I selling ?

I tell people all the time at the end of the day , anything you do in life is an investment Football , basketball . There's people that do basketball played in 52 AU games . They never made the lead Right . So I take it in the perspective of what are you willing to invest in ?

Yeah , you could play the game at home , but you're not going to get the collegiate experience , team bonding , the networking and also a degree ultimately Right . So it was very challenging at first because one people didn't know me when I first came out .

So it was a lot of guerrilla marketing , getting involved in the communities , local high schools and things like that , and in my area a lot of high school didn't even have esports . So I had to deal with some of the challenges like that .

And I don't know how it is in different states , but certain states you have to have permission to go into schools , right . So dealing with some challenges with that because they're like oh , what's e-sports ? You know , if you don't know about video games and e-sports to you , some people brush it off , right .

So , like I said in the beginning , first two years was very challenging . Now we gained some traction , I got some professional coaches on staff and things like that , and it's been good . Now I know , like you were saying earlier , now I get the hey coach , this is what I do . Here's a film , can you check me out ? Right and so .

But it was a lot of hard work and it's not , it's not for the week . It is not easy . I tell people all the time yeah , it's my dream job . But my personality and who I am , to me it was like oh , this is , this is what I love to do .

But I could see from people that are not extroverted and things like that , it's very stressful because you have to recruit , you have to meet numbers , you have to be a visionary , you have to like , find ways to solve problems when they're not your problems . You got to create value for your program , right .

So right now , now people ask hey , what makes your program unique ? They can go to Shenandoah University and get a esports degree . Right , they can go to other schools , like Full City University , and get a degree . What makes you different ? So I'm working on our esports certification for university just to add value , right .

So some people don't finish school they already have esports certification and they'll be able to create value . Right . So some people don't finish school , they already have esports certification and they'll be able to create value for themselves as well . So it's all about I tell people all the time that started .

It's all about creating value and what your school has to offer . That's what you're really selling the student , because they can just play video games at home yeah , okay , okay , damn .

What you starting everything was it was it more time consuming or more like capital coming out the pocket ? Was it more time or more capital ?

Same way with me , because I'm a visionary . So to me I'm like yo , I want to do this , I want to do that , I want to do this and that , and then I'll just start writing it down Like okay , this is how we're going to do it . So very time consuming , um initially .

Um , I would say I tell people all the time if you want to go all in , then yes , it's . It's a lot of upfront costs . Like PCs ain't cheap . Video games now are 70 , you know . So it's a lot of upfront costs . But you can um on the back end of it . It's like at that point you're good , like you already got the pcs .

You're nervous , like you ain't gotta really pay for pcs like every three to five years . If you really take care of them , you ain't gotta pay for like seven . But you know every , you know um and consoles and things like that . So , um , for me it was more so .

I told people all the time once you get the student population on your side , it's hard to say no . Once the interest there is very hard to say no . At that point the money has to shift because there's some value there , right . And then you know it's hard for some people . For me I'd say you start off as a club , I do sporadic stuff .

So for us we did dan tass revolution , we did um , you know mario kart , mario party jeopardy . We literally just did last week . Um , what did ? We did fami feud . You know I'm saying so . We did faculty and staff family feud . We all came out and you know it was competitive .

You know I couldn't have probably just failed ultimately because we had a league game , but I was , you know , I was mad , I was like I need to get in there , you know . So just creating that atmosphere for people and also educating them so they can understand what esports is , will help a lot .

Or how do you get like your students like parents buy-in ?

Um , not saying that my students cannot educate , but at the end of the day , the parents are going to want to know money , right , they . They want to know money , the environment , security . They want to know about class sizes , graduation rates and the value of your degree , because it's a no-brainer , we're $50,000 a year , right ?

People will complain about that , but then go to Duke and they're about $80,000 a year , but guess what they will say is Duke university , there's value in that degree , right ? So , um , I , well , I just educate them because I tell them the same way I said earlier . I was like , at the end of the day , it's an investment .

I'm teaching your son or daughter how to be an entrepreneur , a salesman , a visionary , um , and also team chemistry , sweat equity , like this is an entrepreneur . Basically , this is an entrepreneur , business , right In my eyes . Because , at the end of the day , if you're going to be a streamer , you need to know how to keep people entertained .

You need to know how to edit . You need to know and all these are life skills right , you can take it to a job . I already know how to edit . Well , you already got one up . You already know how to edit . You know how to create value for yourself . You know how to speak in front of the camera . A lot of people can't do that .

A lot of gamers can't do that . Right , you know how to conduct yourself in a professional setting . You know how to be a team player . So it's things like that I have to educate parents because they don't understand it Right . And then , once I break it down into sections , I said think about it like track . I got nine games . There's just like track .

You know long jump , high jump jump , sprinters . You know four by one hurdlers , you know pole vault and things like that . You wouldn't question sending your son to track . So why would you question about sending your son or daughter into e-sports , right ?

What are the things that you would tell somebody ? If you want to come and get into this shit , start doing this so you can get better . Does that make sense ?

So in my rule , my law and my facility , I told my players you should never let anybody on the outside of the club to tell you they better than you . And if they do , you tell them you come inside and you give them that work , you can invite them in it's free , it's free game , you know .

So for the student , I always say reach out to the coaches , ask them what they're looking for . I think I think that switches up semesterly , because you know people graduate in December , graduate in fall . So I would like , once in a while , reach out hey , because you know people graduate in December , graduate in fall .

So I would like , once in a while , reach out , hey , coach , you know , you know I play this position . Whatever the case may be , I just want to know what you're looking for . You know , this season I graduate at this time so I can keep working on my craft . And here's a little you know clips of me , or here's a couple of games of me .

Can you take a look and let me know ? What do I need to be working on Right

now ? I would say it's hard because you know some coaches would be like , wow , I'll take a look at it in the summertime or fall , winter break or Thanksgiving , because they're coaching in season now . Right , but that's how I would tell a kid , I would tell my sister , I would tell anybody if you really want to do it , you got to know how to .

You got to know how to communicate . You can't come and say , well , I'm the best at this , okay , like if you're the best , I will know you the best . This conversation wouldn't even happen , right , um ? So I always tell people come , come in humble and ask the right questions . Make it concise . Nobody wants a long paragraph of questions and you're like okay .

So that's why I would encourage um , anybody looking in to you know high school going to college so I just thought about this .

No , no , not that I know of , but you never know , you never know . So they might say it's a competitive advantage . I don't know , but I will say this hey , bring it with you , come on , you know , and I'm with it , cause I'm a competitor . So I'm like I don't care what they talking about . You know , let's let's compete .

We were the number one team and then we lost in the semifinals , so we got a trophy for that . And then all the other fighting games . We got a trophy for that . And then all the other fighting games we got medals . So you know what ? The reason why and I gotta explain the reason why I say Fortnite is because obviously it's a team based game .

I was gonna say the fighting games , but that's individual based . I'm not knocking it , but it's harder to do it with a teammate and that's you know . In my eyes it's harder to do it with a teammate and that's you know . In my eyes it's harder to do it with your team and go to the finals three years back to back . Like it's hard .

So I would say Razza right now Fortnite .

I don't think coaching is hard , but seeing someone play at that high level different beast , different beast it's a different beast .

When you guys pick , I guess everything is done on PC . Is that correct ?

I was sitting in the class . There was probably a seat right there . I was right there because I'm sitting here like I'm ready to go . I don't want to do that . So he walked by , followed me and he I never forget he looked at me . He said you come here . I was like me , the president . I said , oh , I'm getting kicked out .

I said I'm getting kicked out , I don't mess it up . I'm looking in my head like bro , what did I do ? Like what happened , right ? And then he called and then , um , the teacher professor says she told me who you're talking to . I was like that's the president . He says hey , how you doing ? Yeah , can I , can I ? Oh , go ahead , hey , go ahead .

You signed my checks . So he took me out in the hall , me . He talked to me . He said you know , I like what you're doing with the eSports program and things like that , and I think it's really cool . I want to offer you a position to be my intern . Would you like that ?

So from then on I had open door access with the president . I'm talking about I'm in there pulling up like this . I mean because I used to work at Financial Aid and the director of Financial Aid , Leah Hill , she's my dog and she's my best friend . She was like some days I'll be bored . I said I'm going to the president office she goes , excuse me .

And I said I'm going to the president office , she goes . I said I'm going to the president's office , she goes . I said I'm his intern , I can do that . She's like there's people that ask for meetings and it's hard to get a meeting with him and you're just going to walk in his office . Yes , and I guess what I did .

I walked in there and she said I know what she said in her head . Ain't no damn way . And I walked in there and had a conversation . But what made it unique was I maximized the opportunity . I told him to teach me the game and teach me how to keep growing . Teach me what I need to do . This is what I can offer right now , and things like that .

It's just unfortunate COVID happened and everybody had to go home . Time was short and he asked me . He was like hey , you know what are you going to do ? I said you know , I'm going to apply here . See if I get it . If I don't , I'm going to go get my master's degree . And he said okay .

And then I didn't get the job at the university at the time and I went and got my master's degree and I was still working on a program as I was in Florida . So , because I feel like it was an investment to myself . If I can make this work , I can go anywhere and make it work , right ?

So I was still working on a program when I was at my you know master program . I was still having weekly meetings with him . You know , hey , I'm not up there , it's COVID , right ? I did ask him to fly me up there , shout out to him . He flew me up there . I ain't going to lie . I ain't going to lie .

I was over there and they was like , yeah , coach J is going to pick him up , tell him to wear a mask if he's sick , stay in the hotel or whatever . So it was smooth . It was definitely smooth . I went there , did what I had to do and then I just flew back home and it was .

So when I graduated um , it was , he offered me the position and I just feel like it was , like I said , right place , right time and just a genuine guy , because he just invested in a kid he don't even know . Yeah , you know . And I was just like , well , thank you , I'm not gonna fail now , I can't fail . I will be boo , boo the fool to mess up .

And you know , and it's hard for you know I'm saying it's hard for us to get there , so I had no other choice but to grow up very fast . I think that was the major thing as well .

It was like all right , yeah , all those kid games , you playing and doing all those dumb stuff , yeah , I gotta go through the window because now people are watching , you know . So this is , I'm the investment child . They used to call me duff boy or whatever . So , um , I was all right , I'm with it , nice how , how do you ?

I didn't know that blessing until , obviously , we grew up . You know , life happens and I go , wow , like the same , no more , right . So one thing I noticed was , like I said and I had to put these together I said , okay , um , I need to look at recruiting , right . So how ? What does recruiting look like for you ?

You need to have somebody who's a good recruiter in esports or that has value in esports to be able to recruit . So , uh , shout out to

saucy . He played in the nba 2k league for he check Gaming . He was the MVP finalist . I linked up with him in DC . I was at 2K League . I even got the little shirt for the Charlotte Venom . We talked whatever . He said he wanted to coach . I said are you sure ? I took down my number , ran him through the interview . I said you hired , come on .

Conversation was done . He had another partner that worked in EA . He did Madden animations actually , so like they fly him out to Canada rooftop football field like all that you see on YouTube . Yeah , he was there and he did the animations for like five , seven years and he's very knowledgeable .

He played with Coach JB seven years , um , and he's very knowledgeable , right , he played , uh , with coach jb I don't know if you know who that is at western kentucky , won national championships , things like that . Um , very , and he's a cool guy . Cool guy because if I didn't like him I wouldn't go .

I wouldn't go and pick him up , I ain't gonna lie to you , but very cool guy . Very genuine , straightforward . We saw eye to eye . I said come on , so he coaches , madden um , apex .

I had a friend like this is my actual friend , like cam um , he's actually great at the game became apex letter masters with my , with a couple other , my friends and I was just like one year . He came to me he said you wanted to coach um , something happened with him . Cool , he didn't that .

He came to me a second time , say I actually want to do it , or something cool . So I'm like , wow , I just got these great level coaches right . So , um , that's what it is . So I was also to a couple of my friends . If you serious , I treat it like a business .

I'm not for play , play right , so I'm a different man when it comes to my job , um , but I I don't have problems with them . I'm actually grateful for them , I you know . Definitely shout out to them , for helping our students and giving us knowledge and stuff like that . So , but we do have an interview process .

I do not skip that with anybody , cause I want to know your goals , dreams and aspirations and how can I help you get there . I don't even expect none of my coaches to be with me for two years , because that's how good they are . I'm not even being funny . Um , now , I do I .

If they're going to stay with me for more than two years because they like me , that's it like I just like you know we doing things but , I . If they really wanted to move up , they can easily . Within a year , they they have everything laid out . Tell them what to do , did I'll be , I roll to practice and I just like , oh okay , he there . All right .

Cool , this conversation is done , like you know .

. As you know , you go to the event , you meet people , network , bada bing , bada , boom , I sold program . So at the end of the day , with these sponsorships , it's very hard because you have to show value , right , what's the difference between us and Duke ? Duke is Duke , so they get gifted things like that .

And you know it's hard because it's like , yeah , we don't have that many students , but we have value here . And to them it's like we hear you , but if I put a Kia car in Duke and a Kia car in North Carolina , where's the university ?

Right , do my bite first , respectfully , right , right , and I sell myself and build that connection in hopes of you know what ? Hey , we got some extra money . We'll slide it this way . You know we'll help them out and we'll get money here .

Because it is hard , especially coming , you know , in a small university competing against bigger D1 institutions , it is extremely hard , but I will not let that be an obstacle for me . At the end of the day , I'm going to continue creating value for our programs and we're just going to keep trying to knock out each benchmark and stepping stone .

Um , what I tried to do is , yeah , I'm developing the esports certification program , but I have professionals that I know in the industry come speak to the players right and Q&A sessions and things like that , because I'm like , at the end of the day , I need you to get your face with a name , show your portfolio , because it's hard to get a job coming out

of college . I don't know why people think it probably ain't or whatever , but it is extremely hard , especially nowadays , the way the world is looking it sucks right now a master's degree is slowly dwindling as a bachelor's degree , right , so everybody got a bachelor's degree . Now , um , it increased time , that's the best way to say it .

In the last 20 years it has definitely increased . So now , what sets you apart is the value that you bring to the company , is the value that when we go pound for pound , this person can speak another language . Well , this conversation is done . You know what I'm saying . So that's what I try to do . I try to get people .

So we also have a production program . It's called BGA TV . I remember my senior year . I said I want us on my TVs all around campus . Everybody looked at me like I was crazy and I said I am , but we're going to put everybody on the TVs around campus .

I think that was a huge thing , because now it's like oh snap , mom , I'm here , right , but we want a YouTube channel , got a YouTube channel and I told them . I said you could take these with you pregame interviews and things like that , so you could show people that you are able to articulate yourself and also present yourself in front of people .

Right , that's a big thing . So , like I said , it's constantly trying to create value for the students because , you know , as I pour in them , hopefully they'll be able to take it with them and go and do big things . Hopefully they'll be able to take , take it with them and grow and do big things .

So , whether it be the productions , whether it be the elite team , you come here you know for a fact you're going to get a job , because we're going to give you the tools that you need to equip you to get a job , and that's through connections and things like that . Once that starts rolling , I mean , at that point I'm just here . You know what I'm saying .

The job is done . Now we got connected . Now we got companies asking me hey , do you have somebody from BGA that wants to get a job or wants to do internships here , and things like that , whether it be Epic Games , because Epic Games is literally an hour away , or things like that I do have one person and it actually made me like , oh , that's what's up .

She , uh , she was here when I started the production side of it and now she's in dc on news four . She I told her to go to full sail university . She acts kind of like me , you know um the goofier side or whatever , and I was like she called me one day and I was sleeping and I was just like hello , like what , what you want ?

She's like I'm graduating . I said , yeah , you graduated from North Carolina Wesleyan University . What are we talking about ? no , I'm graduating from Full Sail excuse me you went , she goes , yeah , you told me to go for journalism . I said , okay , you went , she goes , yeah , you told me to go for journalism .

I said , okay , and I went , okay , like , okay , cool , and she went for journalism . She's obviously speaking . She flew around the world , did whatever she needs to do and now , yes , she's on the news floor in the DC area , or I guess it was the DMV area . I guess it was DMV area .

I don't know if they show all of it , but she's doing that and I'm extremely proud of her . That's on the production side , on the elite team . We're still young . We're still young . We got our first graduating class . When they graduate , we're looking for jobs with things like that , trying to help them and stuff like that .

My cousin worked there , right . And then I looked at the map and I was like yo , we got to go through Columbia because he used to work at South Carolina Aiken and then he got a job at University of South Carolina Gamecocks . So I called him two days ago .

I'm like yo , I'm pulling up , I'm pulling up , I'm pulling up , getting in contact with the eSports coach . I want a jersey swap . I need a jersey that says Coach Toxic on it . I bring one of mine . And then we pulling up and he was like okay , what time are you getting here ? I said I'll be there at 12 . Make sure you take your lunch at 12 .

I'll be there , then we'll be in Atlanta . And then I got some people in Atlanta

. I was just like I don't like traveling because I don't like driving , because I feel like there's too much middle time and there's a lot of things I could be doing . So I'd rather be a passenger princess , but that's not happening . Like I have to drive right .

So I feel like when I drive I listen to a lot of motivational no , I listen to Eric Tomlin a lot but motivational insights . So , like you know , because sometimes you get Tom , it ain't a lot but motivational insights . So , like you know , because sometimes you get lazy , you feel down , you need a new motivation . But then I had to .

You know , I listened to it and I'm like no , you got to get on your job . Like what you doing , like what are we talking about ? You know what I'm saying . So that definitely cast the time away .

Yeah , I'm well-rounded , but I do agree it is a stereotype . Yes , some people play Madden , play Toucan , that's it . Some people play Madden , toucan Khan , that's it Because and I always tell people this , yes , do you know how hard it is to play Smite League of Legends ? That's a full-time job , that's not a hey , let me pick up the game and play .

Of course , you know that stereotype plays those games because , yeah , they played football and basketball in real life , so that's easy to transition to . I never played League of Legends in real life . That's a full-time job . Like COD . Cod is shooting . I mean , let's just be real , everybody likes to play shooter games . You know Apex , you know things like that .

So I just feel like it's easy to relate to pick up and play . You just got to know the buttons and know the schemes and stuff . Because you do it in real life , yeah , yeah .

I can't wait . I promise you I can't wait .

It's an anime con in Atlanta . Okay , yeah , I went to MegaCon them MomoCon's another con .

I come downstairs I didn't take her out the night before , so that is my fault but come downstairs and there's a huge pile of shit . This dog is like a horse I love , so my sister is asleep . I come downstairs , I look at my dog and she looks at me and I'm like , really , that's funny .

And remember it's okay to be a little toxic , but go ahead , team , go ahead . Take it away , man , take it away , man , you see how I had that on point , though she didn't laugh at you .