¶ Overview
It's not also easy to come from one country to another and to start over, to have no friends, have no family, have no support, have nothing to lean on, to start over. It's really challenging.
Welcome to the career relaunch podcast focused on helping you successfully reinvent your career. My name is Joseph Liu, and I'm here to help you gain the clarity, confidence, and courage to overcome the challenges of making changes to your career so you can do more meaningful work and enjoy your professional life. In each episode, I feature people who have stepped off the
beaten path to reinvent their careers. We talk through their unique personal journeys, the challenges they overcame, and the lessons they learned along the way to help you understand what it takes to relaunch your own career. Today, my guest will share her story of leaving Iran to make multiple international moves as her career in architecture and design evolved. We'll discuss the challenges of penetrating new professional circles and the emotional
dynamics of running your own business. Afterwards, during today's mental fuel, I'll share my thoughts on what it takes to fit into a new environment. Have you ever felt a bit out
¶ Introduction
of place in a job? Have you ever been more like an outsider than an insider at your company? Have you ever struggled to fit in at your workplace? Today, I'm speaking with Dorna Lakayan, an interior architect and furniture designer with Persian and Norwegian roots who's made a bit of a habit adapting to new environments across her multiple international moves. She now runs her own independent architectural firm, Studio La Cayan, where she transforms houses into dream homes
and brand identities into memorable venues worldwide. Her approach focuses on inhabitants being at the centerpiece of a space, complementing habits and lifestyles through mindful space design and visual harmony. Her philosophy and approach center on the idea that a good space creates space to feel, to think,
and to be you. Now, if her name and voice sound familiar, it's because I featured a voicemail she left for me in Episode one zero two, where she shared a glimpse into her own challenges around moving countries, changing environments, and starting her own architectural firm. Her honesty and transparency really struck me, and I later reached out to her to see if she might be willing to share more details
about her career journey on the show. If you're someone out there who's ever had to adapt to a new environment or deal with the challenges of feeling like an outsider, I think you'll find her perspectives to be very relatable and helpful. You can get all the show notes from today's conversation at career relaunch dot net slash one zero three. Dorna spoke with me from Amsterdam in the Netherlands. Hello,
¶ Chat with Dorna
Dorna. Welcome to the Career Relaunch podcast. It is great to have you on the show.
Hello, Josef. It's very nice to be here. Thank you for having me.
I am looking forward to talking with you about a lot of your geographical transitions and the ups and downs you've experienced along the way, your recent decision to start your own architectural firm. But I'd love to start by just first getting a snapshot of your life right now. What are you focused on both personally and also professionally at this moment?
For me, they are not really separated from each other. Maybe being a designer, I have always lived, eat, I don't know, breathe design because all of an attitude. So my life is designed and it's really intersectionally going forward together. But my focus these days mostly is, of course, establishing my life here in the new country, new city, finding new friends, new colleagues, I don't know, new collaborators, figuring out what's next.
You haven't always lived in Amsterdam. So let's start at the beginning and move forward from there. I'd like to actually go all the way back to your childhood when you grew up in Iran, which is where you're from. What do you remember about your life in Iran as a child?
I think after coming to Europe, my biggest memory of Iran relates to the sun. So it was a very sunny part of the world, especially when you are a child. Maybe you are more curious, so you see more, you observe more. So I remember a lot of patterns, a lot of colors. We live in a part of the world that sun is available. So a lot of architecture and a lot of things are built around it. The shadows, the concept of actually shadowed spaces
and sunny spaces, or light spaces. So there's a lot of things that, about the architecture. Of course, I remember, but then I come from a family that architecture was important or art was important. So maybe that's why most of my memories are around it as well. Or maybe I was just curious as a child to become an architect. I don't know. So
Were your parents also involved in some sort of design or architectural industry?
My dad is, civil engineer, and my mom is an artist or used to be. It was never her profession, but she was just into art. So she would paint and make a lot of things. As a child, I was a very, like, preserved child. I wouldn't show so much of my emotions. And to help me to show more as a child, my mom had taught me that I can create things and show things with creating stuff.
So I had ended up, I don't know, suing and knitting and all of those little things that a child can do, painting and writing cards and notes and things like that. So that was my daily routine of creating.
In most cases on this show, we would typically feature somebody who has a certain professional background and then they switch sectors and they maybe switch roles within a company. Now, in your case, you from a very early start wanted to become an architect. At what point did you realize that and how did you know you wanted to become an architect?
Yeah. The thing is, I didn't have the title, so I didn't know what I want to become is an architect. That was the whole, but I knew that I love to create and I love to do things within the spaces. For many years, I had a title for myself. I called myself the psychologist of spaces because I really thought that I still believe that that you can change somebody's feelings, emotion, habits, a lot of things about how easy your life is by having a
good space. And then as a child, I called myself psychologist at the space of course. But then my best friend's dad was an architect. And one evening I saw a book in their home, which is the drawing of, or a picture of the Frank Lloyd's, Wright's, waterfall house, the fountain house. And then when I saw that, this interaction between outside, inside was so interesting and how the waterfall had gone under that building and all of these beautiful things. So I went to his toilet
and said, what should I do? What kind of profession should I have to be able to do this? And he said, you need to be an architect. That was the day I I realized I need to be an architect. You know?
For those people out there like me who have never been to Iran, how would you describe the overall professional scene in the city where you grew up there?
When I left Iran, I was quite young, so I was twenty four. So I can't really say much about the professional scene because I worked only a few years there. But generally speaking, architecture and civil engineering, which are the dominant jobs on the field, are quite masculine. So you don't see so many females on the we didn't. I don't know. Maybe
now it has changed. All I remember was that you needed some sort of a support from somebody, but then that can also come from the fact that I was very young. So I needed mentors and people who would help me. Generally, Iran is a country full of architecture, and there's a big history and, like, a very rich history, about architecture in that part of the world. So you learn a lot, but it's not practiced that way, of course, anymore.
What ultimately led you to decide to leave Iran behind?
I don't think you make this decision in Iran. You kind of are growing with it, which is a kind of a sad part of the story because it's according to me, one of the best places to be. Due to the whole situation in that part, in the Middle East, with all the complication it has, I think as a child, if you have the ability to grow and learn and are curious enough to live, you are kind of encouraged to do it from a very young age. And that was the same for me. So I learned English when I was
quite young. I started learning English at a very young age. And then before you know, when I felt like everything is settled and I am now an architect and I can take care of myself and everything, it was time to be curious and leave. So, you know, I cannot really say it was a decision made, but maybe it was, but it was also grown into me. So it's like a very complicated thing to say, but generally speaking comes out of curiosity to learn more and to see more. Because obviously I went
to study. Yeah. That's how I left. The decision was not there if I'm going back or not.
What year was this?
Two thousand and ten. That's when I left first time.
So this is not a political show, but obviously at the time, things probably a bit unstable, sanctions in place. And so I would imagine
And as a young person, like, of course, you have a future in front of you and you want to build and create, but you are also know that things are not going to get better and the opportunities are not going to rise. I already see a lot of friends who are there and like imagine the inflation rate and all of these things are affecting your carrier and your decisions and all of that. So taking risks is harder. Hope, maybe having a hopeful future is
harder. In that sense, I think, of course, I don't regret that decision, but anyway, it's your hometown. So you have friends and family and memories. You will speak the language. It's a different thing.
Just to switch gears here and talk about the next chapter of your career, where did you go and how did you decide on where to go next?
First destination was, Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur, and that really just happened because I actually had got admission to study architecture in Oxford. And that day that I was supposed to get my ticket, I couldn't. And Oxford just said, oh, you're too late. And I was like, okay. Now what? And I had a friend who knew a few people in Malaysia, and he was just like, yeah. Why not go to Malaysia and see how it is? And I'm like, sure. Let's do that. And then I
went to Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur. I went to the school, talked to a few people, liked it there, and I said, okay. I want to study more of architecture. And then I started actually interior architecture. And then after that, I worked a little bit. I worked at a school. I worked at an American company in design. And then while I was there, I decided that I don't want to stay there. It didn't feel like a place for me to want to build my future, like
to call home. That's when I decided to move towards Europe and see what is Europe.
Now I know you mentioned you just kinda had a friend and then you end up moving over to Kuala Lumpur. But did you have the means to just pick up and just move to a new country? It seems like a big leap to make. I guess immigration wasn't an issue for you going into Malaysia.
When I went to Malaysia, first of all, I was not thinking that I'm immigrating, you know, in my head. I was going on this trip to see what is happening. And then I ended up staying. Like, I was not even a student at the time. Right. So I went there and I went to school and I liked the school and I stayed the whole thing. Generally speaking, I always have been told in my life that I'm a very brave person. And up until a few years ago, I kept saying like, no,
what's brave about me? I have started to realize maybe I am brave or braver than I think.
Yeah.
Now it's funny for me when I think about it, what was I thinking? Like twenty three year old and then you just go somewhere and you are like, oh, this is cool. I want to learn. Oh, my God. Look at these buildings. Because being in Iran, of course, you have all of these historical sites and old arch the vernacular, and I don't know, clay architecture and colors and everything. And I was in Kuala Lumpur with skyscrapers
and new modern technologies. And I don't know, like architects from Australia, America, Europe, everybody was in Kuala Lumpur building something. So it was really a new scene of architecture. And I was like this little kid who was in a candy store. He's like, oh my God, look at this and look at that and look at this. So it was fun.
Before we talk about your next move, you mentioned that you didn't quite see your future there. What was it about being there that led you to believe that you didn't envision yourself being there long term?
I think it was mostly about the fact that maybe this is too extreme to say it this way, but I didn't feel safe as a citizen. And finally, for me, I know this is not an impression of a lot of people. Iran was very safer and more convenient to be at. And of course, this can come from the fact that I was an immigrant. So it's a different level. You look different. Whatever you do, you look
different. And then of course, we all know being a woman, it's also another minority a little bit in our business, which is architecture, real estate, things like that. So I didn't really see myself building what I envisioned because I think especially at that time, I was seeing myself. Like, I wanted to be a Frank Lloyd Wright. You know? That's how I started the whole journey, and that was not
happening there. I couldn't see that. I still was lacking some sort of trust in my surrounding or some sort of trust in what I want to build, and that was not there for me yet. And that can also come from the fact that I was a junior in Malaysia. Right? It's like you just graduated architecture school. You are, like, super young and
Yeah.
Exactly.
That's interesting. I do think that sometimes in our careers and I consider myself quite a logical left brained individual, but sometimes you can just kind of feel that nothing is really going to progress where you're at. You can just kind of feel it. You can kind of tell that there's not really a future for you in this location or this organization or this sector, and you have to do something about it. Otherwise you'll just stagnate.
Finally, now every day, I'm trying so hard to go back to that because I think the older I got, the more I saw, the more wisdom came, the more doubt in my instinct also came with it. And then when you are young, your instinct are talking really loud and clear and you trust them and you go for it. And that's what everybody calls young and crazy. But I really now hope I can become young and crazy every day in my life. That would be fantastic. Right.
So speaking about another potentially young and crazy move, you decide to move to Europe. Where did you end up going and why did you choose that destination?
I went from, Kuala Lumpur, the city of never ending summer to Oslo, the part of the world that is well known for its lack of sunlight. Oslo was practically to do my master's. My destination was Europe that I knew the way to come to Europe for me in my head was to do my master's. And the main focus was, of course, architecture and design. This
was general design.
Yeah. General design. Exactly. But of course, within space. So that's what I wanted to do. And then I sent applications to a few universities among which National Academy of the Art in Oslo gave me admission. And at the time, I had to choose, of course, between these universities when I got because I got admission from a few. And the question was, which is my destination? Like and I didn't really choose it based on the geography, but
based on the school. I did some research, and National Academy of Arts where I was admission to do the master in design had the best workshops available in Europe. And me coming from this background in architecture where I had all the theory in my pocket could really advantage, have, like, benefit from, being somewhere where I can actually be hands on and create with my hands, not only with my brain. And that opportunity was hundred percent available
in Oslo. I took that chance and I went there, and I can say it was one of the best experiences. Those two years and that school, I did a lot of hands on work, and I learned a lot about construction.
So it sounds like from an educational standpoint, this was a really positive move in your life.
A hundred percent.
How would you describe how this move felt compared to your move going from Iran to Malaysia? Was it the same? Is this one of those quite modular skills being able to make an international move? Was it easier? Was it harder? How did it compare?
Iran was different from Malaysia. Malaysia was different from Norway. You know, every country has its own ups and downs and, difficulties and challenges. So I can't really put that on scale. But, definitely, it was scarier for me to, this time, move. And one thing that was very apparent and immediately, tangible was difference in the culture. I came from a culture that was very giving and very social and very warm and open to a culture that was quite preserved, way colder than my hometown and
things like that. So it was a challenge to figure out what's now or how. There are these unwritten rules, I said, or social, aspects that you have to learn or social codes that you have to crack. That was a challenge.
You've touched on this. And I wouldn't mind going a little deeper into this because I think it's a realistic consideration when you're moving countries. You've talked about being a minority, both first of all, as a female in a quite male heavy industry, but also a minority in the sense of being a minority as
an immigrant in Oslo. I was looking up some stats on this and I was actually surprised because I've been to Oslo before and I had expected the immigration figures to be lower, but immigrants make up about thirty five percent of Oslo's population, give or take. And as a comparison in London, which is where I'm based, it's around the same. It's around thirty eight percent. I would have expected a slightly larger difference. New York City, it's about
thirty six percent. But at the same time, regardless of whether it's thirty six percent or half or ten percent, you still recognize that you're an immigrant in a country and you feel that. How much did that play into your life there? Were there any issues or challenges you faced either personally or professionally?
I mean, hundred percent, they are issues and challenges. I mean, as I just said, like, there's this unwritten user manuals that you need to know, and nobody gives that user manual to you at the airport. You know, you just come in and you have to kind of crack the code yourself, and depends on how open you are to trying. That also takes a lot of courage. One aspect, of course, is the social aspect of the life in the Nordics, how you're gonna make new
friends. Nordic people generally are more preserved in, letting people inside their inner circles. They are also like more concerned about social interactions. So it's harder to walk in Oslo and say hello, good morning to any stranger than it is in, anywhere else in the world. So those little things, especially for me coming from a culture where you see your neighbor and say, Hey, have a good day. You know, it was different things. So it was really challenging. I might say at times depressing. I
was not used to this. I was not used to hiding and not saying anything and pretending that I don't see or things like that, so in social context. And in professional context, it even gets more challenging, especially after I graduated, because at school, everybody spoke English and it was a really international community and you could meet people and things. But then I started looking for jobs and the first advice I got was maybe you should consider changing your name. And I'm like, to do
what? Because you come out of school and you think, oh, my skills matter, but somebody is telling me, no, your name matters. Of course, this is on debate, and also they are aware of the problem, and, they are addressing it in different channels and media. Then I realized, oh my god, I am an outsider.
Speaking of the professional world there then, what were you doing at the time and what sort of firm were you working for in the architectural sector there after you had graduated from the National Academy?
I studied interior architecture and furniture design in the academy. So the plan was to do interior architecture, which is less also male dominant, industry. The thing is during my studies, I was an artist assistant. So I was helping an artist in Kielkochen to create sculptures and things like that. So she was very artistic, and, of course, I had the knowledge of construction, which together would be a really good teamwork. When I graduated, I still was working
with hair. And I also found another part time job. I worked as a material scientist for, small product design company called Hoos. So my work was to research what new materials we can create to build products and furniture with, which was a very, very fun job. But, unfortunately, I could not keep any of these two if I wanted to stay in Oslo because I was, after all, an immigrant. And coming from the Middle East, I needed a visa. Ah. And for that, there were,
rules and regulations. According to the rules, I needed a full time job or a job that was above eighty percent within my field of studies. So I ended up working as an interior architect in a firm that is one of the big firms in, Oslo, and I stayed there for a while. And then after three years in Metropolis, I quit. I went to Radius where I experienced a lot more fun working environment, and then Radius ended up to Studio La Cayan, which is, the small design studio I have today.
So let's talk about that transition. So it sounds like you're working in various architectural capacities in the interior architectural space Yeah. At Metropolis and then eventually Radius Design. What were you thinking at the time? Were you thinking you're gonna just continue to work as an employee at these companies? Or at what point did you start to think, hey, I might wanna do my own thing?
Actually, I thought I will, work at Radius for a long time. That was in background when I started there. Like any other person, this corona event had a big impact on me as well, especially being in Oslo in winter, darkness, sitting home and working alone behind your computer with, no social interaction and things. You start thinking and rethinking your life a lot.
And this was twenty twenty to twenty twenty one is when you were there.
Yeah. Exactly. And then I had a chat with my best friend and we are walking and she said, but if you could do anything, like if you had the means to do anything you want to do, what would you do? And I said, oh, I wish then I would start my own studio. And then she's like, why don't you? And I'm like, well, I can't. And the whole thought began. So it was a corona wish list, let's say. Of course, I pursued it. I did some research. I saved money, you know, all of the ABCs of let's do this
and let's be brave about it. And of course, I can fail or not.
What was appealing about the idea of starting your own studio compared to working for an established firm?
The biggest thing was the freedom of having a vision. Everybody who is in design or architecture is also aware of the fact that, there are so many different signatures in design. And when you work in big firms, you kind of lose that, signature of your own. If you want to have that kind of vision and think in a very specific way or challenge some specific things, you need to either be very lucky or to kind of work with a very, very smaller team of
people. And that's kind of what I decided to do, to change direction and work with a smaller team. It sounds like I'm one person, but in architecture, you are never one person. That's the whole thing. You always have a team. But of course, now I handpick that team.
And if you can go back in time for a moment, Dorna, when you think back to those early days of making that decision to officially make the transition from employee to entrepreneur, what excited you about it and what scared you about branching off on your own?
There were, of course, two things. One that, what if I can't what if I can't deliver? Because, okay, I knew I can do a project a to zed, and I know my abilities and everything and the skills, but I also knew it takes a lot to deliver a good project. And my colleagues at the firms I've been working with, they're working day and night to do that, and I was a part of that team doing it. And now I had to be that team myself, and then that was the scary part.
And all of course, like anybody else, financial worries. I won't have a paycheck, but still have a rent and, you know, the whole bills to pay. So what if I cannot earn money? What would happen? But that is the day you learn that either you are brave to do it or you just have to leave it, you know? So I decided to just be brave and do it. Exciting? Oh, creating, I think, but that's always exciting for me. It doesn't really matter what team
I am in. I think that the moment you tell me that there's a possibility that I can create, like, I'm above the skies all over. Creating is what drives the whole car.
Before we talk about some of the things you've learned along the way of your career journey, you did make one more change, which is why you're not in Oslo doing this interview and you're actually in Amsterdam. What prompted you to make that move?
Yes. I moved to Amsterdam. I think this decision was really about reinventing myself and not in as an architect only, but as a person. I spent a decade in Oslo, and I met fantastic people, and I built a lot of things there. And then, I also had a lot of opportunities to learn, I would say. But when I was successful a year ago there and I was looking at my future, I thought to myself, so is this it? Am I now happy and this is, like, where I want to be and who I want to be and what I
want to have? I felt not. I felt I'm missing something. And then I started actually digging in and seeing what I want to do then about it. What is it that I want? I mean, of course, one thing also was about the weather conditions in Oslo. That's also another thing. And then that moment was the moment that I was like, okay. What where can I fit that part that is missing? And I needed a little bit of a bigger design theme and, braver design scene as well in my head, more open.
That kinda led into Amsterdam.
I know that sometimes moving to a new country can be a challenge, although you've now tackled that a few times successfully. Yeah. Another thing that can be a challenge is working on your own. I know that you work with a team, but starting your own business on your own, having worked in already established businesses, how has that transition been for you to go from employee to business owner?
Like, seriously, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. It's not easy.
What's the toughest thing about it?
Some days, I feel like the toughest thing is waking up to nothing. There is no project. There is no potential project or potential collaborator or potential anything, but you still are so enthusiastic about doing it that you wake up and you hit something and you find something and you make a good day out of it. I think the challenge is to stay enthusiastic and that's easier said than done,
seriously. I mean, now we talk about all of these moves and that I made and we call it successful, but it's not also easy to do that, to come from one country to another and to start over, to have no friend, have no family, have no support, have nothing to lean on, to start over, go out and be brave enough to just say, hey. My name is Dorna. You know? So and I want to be your friend or I want to work with you or any other sentence that comes after. Some
cultures are more open. It makes it easier. Some cultures are not. It's really challenging to do it. And I cannot say that I'm successful, yet or not. I have a lot of successes. There is still a long, long, long way to go.
It does take a lot of energy to start over and to rebuild, to reacclimate yourself to a new culture and to find new friends. How have you found the social scene there? And also what I'm gonna describe as the professional social scene where your ability to network with other people in the industry, how has that been for you there in Amsterdam? How would you describe that scene as someone from the outside?
It is a very open scene. So it's a very welcoming scene, I would say, also. People look at my portfolio or my work or people talk to me. I get a lot of great comments about my work, which is very encouraging. But at the same time, of course, one goal is to be a part of a circle. One goal is to work in that circle. And to work in that circle, I still haven't figured out. It's like it's developing and it's getting better and
better. I'm meeting more people, but to just go in and say hello, I have had a lot of success. They are really open to hear your story and to introduce you to the next person who might be interested in your story and things like like that. So that is developing, and I think it's just like a maze, like, or a puzzle. You have to just be patient and put more and more pieces to your future map. It's joyful, but it's also, as you said,
tiring. It takes a lot of energy to find where to be, where to meet these people, to send a lot of emails. Not all of them reply. Like, not everybody reply. To call people and say, hey. I have sent you an email, by the way. All of those, things. It's really like, I say full more than a full time job just to socialize.
I know what you mean. I run my own business, Dorna, as you know.
And Yeah.
I think one of the most challenging things that I sometimes struggle with is a lack of a support system. I feel very alone at times. And I'm wondering, do you feel that? And, like, where do you turn for support when you're feeling like your motivation isn't where you want it to be?
I listen to your podcast. But, seriously, I think that's what I can't because I also feel alone. I feel down. There are days that I'm like, oh my god. What did I do? Was it the right decision? There are days that I doubt myself. I doubt myself as a designer, you know, a lot of downs and downs because I always say we hear a lot of the stories of success. Yeah. In social media and here and there and there. Nobody tells what was it like to get there. And that's the part
that is missing, and it's very difficult. There are down days, hundred percent, lonely days, hundred percent. And I haven't found really a good solution, but I mean it when I say I listen to other people who are going through the same thing or have done the same thing. And just that makes me feel like I'm not alone. People have done it, you know, Other people know.
Absolutely. I think just feeling like it's a normal thing to go through can be comforting and reassuring in and of itself.
Hundred percent. Hundred percent.
The last thing I was hoping to talk with you about was just a couple of the lessons you've learned along the way of your very interesting career change journey. And my first question relates to what you alluded to and have been talking about throughout this whole conversation, which is going from being an outsider to an insider, which is something that I
think we all struggle with. Not only when you move to a different country, but also even when you just shift into a new industry or even are a new employee at a new company. What have you learned about what it takes to penetrate into these inner circles?
I think the biggest thing that I have learned, which I'm still learning, let's say, that way because it's hard to remember it all the time, is that nothing is personal. It's not about me that people don't reply their emails or it's not about me that today somebody doesn't smile or, you know, all of those things or somebody that doesn't look at your portfolio or somebody doesn't take your call or all of those things that happen every
day. To stay positive is important, and I really know it's easier said than done because I struggle some days with it myself to remember that I have to stay positive, and it will get somewhere. But one has to just do it. To believe in yourself, as cliche as it is, to know that however it will end, you are investing in yourself. Even if not as a professional, as a person, this will definitely make something else out of you, and this is your journey. If you trust in that, something good will come
out of it. I mean, one way or another, it has happened to me. And as I said, it is not all the starry nights. So
Right. Last question before we wrap up with what you're focused on at this particular moment and one of the projects that I find very interesting, What have you learned about yourself along the way of this career journey of yours?
Number one, I as I said, I think I learned I'm braver than I think. I generally think I learned to trust the fact that this shall pass, to trust that life goes on. And as long as I am enthusiastic about what I'm doing and I am excited about my future, opportunities will pop up. But I always thought I'm a very positive person, but being a positive person and having a drive to drive this positivity is two
different things. And I could never think that I'm this strong, you know, that I can drive myself, regardless of anything and just believe in the fact that something good is out there. I think I learned that I can be way, way stronger and braver than I think, and I'm proud of that. It's like, Torna as a human being is better than I thought.
Well, that's a good place to wrap this up, and I would like to just finish up with something that you're focused on right now. Can you tell me a little bit more about, first of all, the type of work that you're doing there at Studio Lacayane, and I'd be especially interested to hear about your YouTube series, Lacayane Loves.
Loves. At the Studio Lacayane, we I am very much focused in, space design, and that means interior architecture practically in my field of work. So it's from space planning, making a good use of the space functionality, and then to, of course, aesthetics and moods and feels, materials, finishes, sometimes furniture design, all of those,
lighting design. So whatever matters within the space that you use, it can be, office, it can be your residence, it can be a hotel, it can be a shop, doesn't really matter. As long as it is a space that is tangible, that is what we do or what I do. And the Lacanine Labs is something that I'm extremely excited about because, of course, I create a lot of things myself, but there's a lot of people in this world and there are a lot of fantastic designers and architects who are creating beautiful
work. And I love them and I see them. And sometimes I just look at them and I admire their work and I'm like, see this beautiful thing they have created. And then I always felt like it's such a pity that I can never share it with other people. And I don't like this, trend on Instagram where people are just sharing other people's work and just saying that credit from this credit from that, you know?
Right. Yeah. I
feel like there is more into it. There is, like, this beautiful thing that we can look at and talk about. And then I decided to create this, short series where I can very short, like in less than a minute, show some of the work of my fellow colleagues and say what I admire about them and then help other people maybe see it as well. Maybe they already are seeing it. I'm not sure, but if not, maybe I give them that eye or those glasses.
Very cool. I'm definitely gonna check that out myself. If anybody who's listening to this wants to learn more about you or the work that you do, where can they go?
Of course, I, lakayan. N o or dot com is available. You can check me out there, but I'm also on Instagram and on LinkedIn. Both are available on the website. So I would be happy to hear from people. And if they are in Amsterdam, I would be happy to have coffee.
Alright. Well, we'll definitely include all those handles and links in the show notes and wanted to thank you so much Dorna for telling us more about your life as an architect and your experiences of living in so many places and also your recent decision to run your own studio. So best of luck with
all your work. I would encourage people to check out your design work on Instagram and even just your banner image on LinkedIn, which I told you when we first exchange messages, isn't too far off from being my dream home. So I may take you up at some point on sketching out what my dream home concept could be.
It could be. Oh my God. That's going to be so much fun. I would love to do that.
Me too. One day.
Thank you for wishing me luck. I really need love. I'm wishing luck for everyone who's listening because I know they are also some people probably who are starting or shifting in their careers. So good luck, everyone.
Well, thank you so much for coming on to the show, Dorna.
Of course. Pleasure.
So I hope you enjoyed hearing Dorna's perspectives on the balance between instincts and logic, the challenges of shifting countries, and the emotional dynamics of working on your own. Now it's time to wrap up with today's mental fuel where I'm gonna share my own experiences adapting to new environments. Before we get to today's mental fuel, I wanted to thank Brand Yourself for supporting this episode of the Career Relaunch Podcast.
Brand Yourself is an online reputation management service that helps you control what people find when they search for you online. To optimize, protect, and improve your online presence, visit brand yourself dot com and use promo code relaunch to get fifty percent off a premium membership. This
¶ Mental Fuel
is the part of the show called Mental Fuel where I finish the show with a brief personal story related to one of the topics we covered today and wrap up with a simple challenge to help you move forward with your own career goals. So for today's Mental Fuel, I want to pick up on a theme that's come up today with Dorna around adapting to new environments, navigating a different culture, penetrating into seemingly impenetrable inner circles, or just figuring out a way to fit in.
And in my own life and career, I can definitely relate to many of the sentiments Dorna shared both personally and professionally. In many ways, for much of my life, I've felt a bit like an outsider or at best someone at the intersection of two very different worlds never quite fully fitting into either. Just to go way back in time, although I was born in a small town in West Virginia, my parents immigrated to the United States from Taiwan only a few years before I
was born. And aside from my sister, I was the only non caucasian student in my entire elementary school. We were the only Asians in our entire neighborhood. And when we later moved to Missouri, I was one of only a few minorities I could count on one single hand amongst the over sixteen hundred students
in my high school there. On the one hand, I grew up in a fully Taiwanese household, eating noodles and dumplings and putting soy sauce on pretty much everything I ate, taking my shoes off when I entered any house, and feeling rather soft spoken, borderline shy. But on the other hand, when I stepped outside of my house, the school cafeteria was full of burgers, chili con carne, and nachos. My friends never took their shoes off when entering their houses. And the social culture, while very
friendly, also felt very extroverted and loud. While I didn't necessarily feel like an outsider per se because this is really all I knew growing up, I certainly didn't feel like an insider. And on the flip side, when I visited Taiwan as a child and even now, I feel much more American than Taiwanese. When Taiwanese people see me there, including my extended family, it's not uncommon for some of them to comment on my appearance or my behavior saying I look and behave like an outsider.
Interestingly, for much of my career, I also often felt like an outlier. In medical school, I never fully felt like I fit in because of my creative and business interests. When I eventually moved into the corporate world, I felt like a bit of an outsider because of my more science based education. When I later worked in a large corporation in the
Bay Area. I'll never forget in one of the retail trainings when they asked everyone in my cohort to raise our hands if we regularly bought clothes at Walmart, I was the only one who raised my hand, probably because I was one of the few employees there who had come from a more blue collar background. And of course, when I moved to the UK in my marketing jobs, I was one of the only non Brits on my team. Now I never really minded being an
outlier. I feel like a big part of who I am is driven by the diverse experiences I've had culturally, geographically, and professionally. But I'd be lying if I said I didn't occasionally catch myself envying those people out there who just followed more linear paths where their environments were more stable, where they more naturally fit in, or where they didn't have to try and figure out the culture because that's
been their culture for so long. What I try to do when I'm struggling to fit in or if I'm feeling ungrounded is to latch onto points of stability. I try to do things that create familiarity and comfort when I find myself in unfamiliar, uncomfortable environments. And I anchor onto things that have consistently allowed me to feel grounded in three ways. First, finding even one person who embodies the characteristics of people I've gravitated toward and felt comfortable
around in my life. People who are kind, honest, self reflective, proactive, and pleasant conversationalists. I try to spend more time with these types of people I click with. And sometimes it just takes one person to provide me with a sense of belonging. Second, engaging in activities that bring me joy, feel like me, and are a big part of who I am. These are typically things like running and exercise, browsing through a food market, which is something
I've always enjoyed, or hobbies like photography. And finally, since this is a podcast focused on career change in professional environments, whenever I've made a pivot into a new role, organization, or location where a completely different and new skill set or scope of knowledge is required, I've tried to lean into transferable skills that have served me well in my career to help
me feel like less of an imposter. These include things like my branding and marketing functional expertise, or even soft skills like being collaborative, respectful, and organized, or these days my comfort with public speaking. If you find yourself in the midst of a career or life transition that's left you feeling a bit out of place, is there an anchor point you could identify from your own life that's consistently allowed
you to recalibrate and reground yourself effectively? I get that you may never feel truly at home when you're in a new environment. To this day, even after being in the UK for nearly fifteen years, I still don't always feel like it's home. I still struggle with the social dynamics here. I still struggle to make good friends. And I still feel like many of my strongest, most effortless bonds and connections are those I made in the US
before moving here. But sometimes, especially when you're feeling like you're in an environment that is uncertain, unfamiliar, or unsettling, sometimes all it takes are one or two points of familiarity to stabilize you so you can feel grounded enough to focus on the task at hand, to keep moving forward, and to address the key priorities in your career that really matter. This takes me to a quote from Albert Einstein.
In the midst of difficulty lies opportunity. Find your center and use that as your anchor.
¶ LIstener Challenge
So my challenge to you, if you're feeling like your career is in a state of upheaval, uncertainty, or unfamiliarity, is to find an anchor point that's consistently served you well, kept you grounded, or just helped you feel more in control. Identify one activity, skill set, person, or place you can reconnect with regularly to create that sense of familiarity that serves as a source of comfort, confidence, and certainty as you face those professional and personal challenges around
you. If you have some thoughts or a
¶ Wrap Up
question about career transitions you'd like to share, I'd welcome you leaving me a voice mail with your thoughts at career relaunch dot net slash one zero three, where you can also find a summary of my chat with Dorna and learn more about her. Again, that's career relaunch dot net slash one zero three. And if you enjoyed this conversation, I'd appreciate you leaving a five star review on Spotify or
Apple Podcasts. That's also the best way to support the show and help other professionals relaunching their careers to find this podcast. Be sure to follow the show so new Career Relaunch Podcast episodes automatically show up in your podcast feed the moment they get released. Thanks so much for being a part of the Career Relaunch community, and a special thanks again to Dorna Laqayan for sharing her story with us
today from Amsterdam. This episode was mixed by Liam McKenzie, and the Career Relaunch theme song was written and performed by Electrocardiogram. I'm Joseph