051 | Cultivating Global Sports Leadership with Dr. Daniel Kelly II

And so when I got to Ohio State for my PhD program , I continued to work in cause athletics , thinking maybe that was just my Miami Ohio experience . And so I doubled down in Ohio State and then it was like , okay , yeah , I got to be global .

My primary goal on each day is to make sure the students or executives that I work with have a healthy learning environment , and by that I mean , if I'm international , I'm working with executives to help them understand executive education and we're working on preparing them to host mega sporting events like the FIFA World Cup , the Paris Olympics , you know , things

like the mega sporting events that are around the world . Locally here at New York University , I get a chance to work with our students who come to campus and prepare them for opportunities in the field , with the National Football League , the National Basketball Association or any of our other partners in the industry of sports .

I love this job because it gives me a chance to travel internationally , but also to bring what I'm learning internationally in countries like the United Kingdom , spain , argentina , qatar , united Arab Emirates , india , bring that knowledge back to New York to our students to help them understand the possibilities of being a sport practitioner in a global market space Wow .

So every day can be different , but overall it does bring me a lot of satisfaction knowing that I'm a part of a learning journey for a student .

So your students are typically grad school students from my understanding , or can they also be young and you partner also with organizations to specifically identify things that would be helpful for their employees and the development and the continuous growth of the people that work in those organizations , as you mentioned , like the NFL , the NBA and others ?

Tell me how that goes . So do you go to do , you meet with these folks and then you figure out what are the gaps , what is it that they're looking to do , and then kind of design a curriculum from there , or how does that work ?

Both have over 100 students total in our graduate programs and we have been able to take them on opportunities across the globe to learn from executives around the world .

Now in our executive education offerings we actually have client partners like the National Football League , who we go in and meet with their leadership and figure out what kind of learning journey do they want for their high potential employees , and so we work with the senior managers to directors and put them on a career path for learning towards potential future

roles like VP and C-suite level , and so we're developing a pipeline program that helps them to understand exactly what it takes to matriculate to the higher levels after promotion .

The learning that we get from both experiences allows me to bring that to both groups of students , because my graduate students want to know what's the path to work for the NFL in a global capacity , and the NFL wants us to help their staff members to achieve that understanding of what it takes to move up to the higher levels , and so in both capacities I would

call it I'm developing curriculum for emerging leaders in the sports business industry . So whether you already have a job or you're looking to get a job with a top notch sports entity , I have the expertise to help you understand how to do so .

He told me I was being too short-sighted trying to be a sports agent and that I could do more .

I had the background my parents are international , from Jamaica , and so I was already experiencing a lot of global aspects of life compared to my counterparts and he wanted me to lean into that because he saw the potential in me having a career path similar to him . And it worked .

Because he was a provost at Miami , ohio when I met him , and his mentorship has allowed me to see the possibilities of where I could go in a career in higher education .

But , more importantly , how , as a black man with a PhD , how it's a game changer because the rooms that I go in now the respect level is different and the rooms that I go in , my expertise allows me to operate at a high level , and so having a PhD , having a subject matter expertise in sport business and being one of the top practitioners in the field allows

me to know that what I'm bringing to the table is at the highest standards .

But it was one of the best decisions I ever made because it set forth the groundwork for excellence in academia . But , more importantly , it was a family environment .

My basketball teammates and my coach I still talk to to this day and they are as much a part of my success as I have been , because I was in an environment that pushed excellence and set a foundation for an understanding of being responsible for my actions and always finding a way to be resourceful .

Those are lessons that I learned walking the halls of Frederick Douglass Academy in Harlem .

Back then . I'll be honest with you . I was in the sports world . My dad was social worker , my mother was an accountant , so for me at that time I thought being a medical doctor was what the future was going to be for me . But we had many executives at , I would say , educational administration executives . You know I were principal at the time , dr Hodge .

He had a doctorate as well and he was pushing me to get a doctorate and so throughout my time in school , whether it was high school or college , I've had mentors who have pushed me to go for the doctorate and they showed me the pathway , of the possibilities , of what it could lead to lifestyle-wise , and although I had different aspirations in high school being

a medical doctor of , in college , being a sports agent it's just funny how things come full circle and I became a PhD and a higher education professional because of the impact and influence of those mentors throughout my life .

I know someone who went to FDA . You all should talk .

And similarly , right Like I was there when we had Dr Hodge and folks in the building teachers , administrators , any type of staff that was there really dedicated to our success , right , and really dedicated to pushing us to find whatever it was that we were going to do , but expected us to do it at a very high level , right ?

So whatever you were going to do , just be like elite at that . So I completely understand the importance of having folks like that and looking at folks like Dr Hodge , just not only by virtue of his being , but also by what they taught us and the principles that they instilled in nurturing us to continue to strive for more and figure out the next steps .

So talk to me about how you got to University of Miami , Ohio , and what did you actually declare as your major when you got there .

My father was on the phone with her and Dr Hodge and we were talking about a scholarship to go to Miami , ohio . Everything changed . I sight unseen , never been to the campus , but I believed in them and trusted there they're counsel and I signed on to go on a full scholarship , academically to Miami , ohio .

And so I would say fortuitous , because I would have been an additional debt going to NYU although I did end up at NYU as a professor later on but the opportunity to get a full ride academic to go to Miami University .

It got me a chance to leave New York and , more importantly , got me a chance to see a different lifestyle , a different part of the country and drive through those cornfields to get to Oxford , ohio . And so when we arrived there , freshman year was undecided . But then I declared a business major in accounting .

As I mentioned earlier , my mother is an accountant , so I thought the skill set in the business school would be a good opportunity for me to grow in that trade and to have a ready-made job skill .

And then , of course , after meeting with mentors and having an understanding of what was of the college environment and the opportunities that were out there , I moved over from accounting to business administration , which has been a good foundation for me as I am a sport business professor now and it's just been a good aspect to have an understanding of all the

managerial functions of business and , of course , an understanding of high-level business and finance , which is my expertise , as well as in global social issues .

I mean , these are friends that I've had throughout my life and in addition to my high school basketball teammates , who some of them are actually in my fraternity in the same chapter , it's been a blessing to have that kind of support and brotherhood throughout my career .

And so that experience even when I spent the semester abroad , in Spain and international experiences and having brothers to visit in Spain and to share in these experiences and to have an understanding of where we didn't have to be local , we could be global , because even at that age we had passports and we were able to really explore the world .

And even though I was based in Spain , we went to London , we went to Manchester , we went over to Rome , we took the trip to Morocco , we got a chance to explore the world and I just never felt alone . It's always the brotherhood . So I would say that's a major piece of my experience at Miami Ohio .

That's one of the benefits of going to a school like Fresno Academy is that there's a lot of international programs that are free for us and spend time in France , spend time in Israel and , high school , spend time in the Caribbean with a program called Interlocking . There was just a lot of international experiences .

My younger brother and sister have also had the opportunity in high school to travel abroad and I guess it was ingrained in us that this could be a possibility of a lifestyle and a calling when it comes to our vocation , because in my career path , seeing the global aspect has been a major part of what I wanted to do .

And so , after getting a PhD , making sure that the global aspect was a piece of my career path whether it was international programs I was running at small private schools in Ohio and Pennsylvania , whether it was running the entire academics for the FIFA World Cup , for the Josor Institute , the football and sport management diploma program .

I ran that for almost three years , and so it's you know those types of experiences that when I finally did get the big break at Georgetown , it was a foregone conclusion because I had years of preparation to get to that point , and so it wasn't an overnight story , it was more so I was preparing for it so that when it came I could grab it by the horns and

really make a move . And so when I got to NYU NYU has 15 global centers it's the ultimate global university and this upcoming year we're gonna be in Abu Dhabi . I'll be in Abu Dhabi in January . I'll be in India in March . I'll be in South Paulo , brazil , in May .

In June we'll go to London In July , we'll go to the Olympics in Paris and then we'll go to New Delhi , india , in September . So it's like we're gonna be moving a lot of international operations , a lot of international programming .

I'll be teaching executives at each of those locations on building out custom programs for how they can build emerging leaders for their organizations , and then we'll bring that knowledge back here to the States .

And throughout those trips we'll bring students on parts of those trips and we'll be able to have them have the experiential learning experiences , but it's the same experience that I had 25 years ago . It's just now . I do it for a living , and now there's this larger state .

And ultimately we came to the decision together that the sociology route would blend itself better with my business administration background and so I stayed at Miami University on a full ride .

Academic scholarship again for graduate school . I was a graduate associate and so I got paid to teach courses and to work on for the athletic department for Miami University and so I got a chance to get hands-on experiences and operations and event management .

And I think I would say during this time period I learned what I did not wanna do those cause athletics is a grind . It's a grind . It was like 80 hour weeks . You were constantly on your feet and I just remember I was burning out .

And so when I got to Ohio State for my PhD program , I continued to work in cause athletics , thinking maybe that was just the Miami Ohio experience . And so I doubled down in Ohio State and then it was like okay , yeah , I gotta be global . And so rather than working on a college campus .

I wanna work on international sports , international events , put those Spanish language skills to use which I'm still working on with Duolingo and just figuring out ways to continue to find my passion .

But I think test driving cause athletics test driving what I figured out I didn't wanna do was it was important and it led to me figuring out what I did wanna do , which was the global side of sports and so getting the opportunities , the PhD program , finishing that up , taking on some roles in smaller universities , allowed me to understand how to navigate as a

professor , build towards tenure , understand publishing , understanding how to navigate the administrative side of business and also position myself as a subject matter expert in sport business .

And I was able to do that , which is how I got recruited to go to Georgetown and that's where I consider that my big break , because that's when I got a chance to work on the FIFA World Cup , to work on FC Barcelona as a consultant and some of the largest and most successful sport business organizations in the entire world , which led to me coming to NYU and

working with the national football league .

A lot of folks look at that and like that's a terminal degree , you'll be set , you know you'll be all right , you can make things happen with that and like why specifically did you want to do that ? And second part question is during that time , had you met someone with a version of the role that you have now that you wanted to do ?

You know , I could become a president of VP one day of an organization , I could become executive director and I could get fired . But with my PhD , that's mine and I look at it in my office every day and I just remind myself that they can't take it from me . I think , like no matter what I've already won .

And so , whatever career path I navigate , I'm coming in there with an expertise and I've chosen my expertise to be in sport , finance , with a focus on leadership , executive education and global issues impacting society . But when I go into the room , I'm Dr Kelly and I'm coming in there to take over , coming in there to partner .

I'm coming in there to get results and I think that mentality coming in because you'd be surprised that there aren't that many PhDs in higher education .

It's a lot more MBAs , it's a lot more psychology degrees , liberal arts , little studies degrees , and so having my credential is a differentiator , especially being a black man with this credential as well and , having the experiences that I've had and the track record that I've had , it just it leans into respect and I'm also demanding that respect as well .

For parts of your question too , I did not see somebody who had the exact role that I was doing , so for a long time I kind of felt like I was beating my head against the wall , because it was like , you know , I'm trying to move up , I'm trying to carve out a niche , but no one's actually doing what I'm doing .

And then that became a differentiator , because then I started to lean into that that I had to be the trendsetter , the one that was doing it . There's nobody that I've seen who's doing especially a black man in academia who's doing research and building a second education programs in Qatar .

Even when I walked into the room , I was the only one , and then so I made sure to kick the door open and bring in people who looked just like me . When I got , when I got to Georgetown , they were sending over three white men to do the program that I was doing .

And when I came over there , not only was I going on every trip to Qatar , I was bringing over a diverse slate of faculty . I was bringing over women . I was bringing over women of color . I was bringing over Latino men , I was bringing over black men .

I was bringing over , you know , a diverse slate to show them that , more than what they were seeing as the white , older males , that's not the true representation of what Georgetown was teaching in the US .

The true representation was a diverse slate of faculty that came from different backgrounds , that was inclusive and this was the true epitome of what we were bringing to the table . And that's the thing we do for the NFL . The thing I do for Berusia Dortmund , for FC Barcelona .

I bring over the true essence of who we are , which is not the tradition of what you see on TV .

within the team to really think through things a little differently , like there's a lot of value in that , I would imagine , as an organization that is working with you all as partners .

And I think you know , when they first see me on paper , they think I'm a white Irish guy , daniel Kelly , and then when I show up , I'm like a 64 , 270 pound black man who has a PhD from Ohio State and has published extensively on these topics of soccer in the global sport world , and so I have to show that to them .

I have to come correct , come organize , then make sure that they understand that the reason why Georgetown and now NYU have sent me here to work on this program is because they believe and trust my talent .

And now this work and this partnership is going to work because we're going to come together with the right resources and we're going to build a team like environment , and I'm going to get you to where you need to be .

And so it helps that FC Barcelona with vouch for me , or Barusha Dortmund with vouch for me , or these different clubs that I've worked with with vouch for my expertise , and then I come in there and then the proof becomes in what I can show them .

That makes sense , but it took years to get there , like it wasn't , like it happened overnight and it took a lot of stopping goes and a lot of times me questioning if it was ever going to happen . But it took a while , but it

did .

But when we finally get there with the emerging leaders whether it's the students at NYU or it's the executives in different countries or with the NFL when we're in the classroom it's the purest like communication .

It's the purest experience and we're getting a chance to dive deep into the topics of leadership and to help them understand that , the nuances of leadership . I focus heavily on the three main components of employee success .

I call it , and so you know , for the most part , confidence has been the foundational key for those who find success and those who don't , and by confidence it means balancing these three aspects effectiveness , social networking and political strategy . You know essentially , especially people of color .

We know how to come in and do the job , we know how to be effective , but at times we're probably not networking as well as our counterparts and we're not fully understanding the politics and strategy of how to find success of the organization .

And so we're coming in and we're doing the job , and we're doing it at a high level , but we're only doing one third of it . And so understanding that you have to do the job , you have to network and build social capital and you have to understand how doing the job and your network are going to help you understand the political strategy of the organization .

Doing those three things in the classroom , that's how nothing beats that . When students figure out that piece , it's like the light bulb goes off in their head .

It's like they have all these ideas and then they start to pivot and change their approach and how they're understanding their career path , how they're understanding managing up to the leadership or understanding office politics and how to survive .

And I think that's what I've learned throughout my career path and I know it's a small piece of what I do , but when I get a chance to be in the classroom and go over that lesson , that's my favorite lesson in the job .

Right , and I think there's so much value in having in kind of fostering and creating that network of people that are going out into the world and doing all that , which is really unique and really pivotal , especially as you talk about diversifying the folks that are in these roles .

Can you talk about ways that you are fostering kind of some of that network and building some of those environments for people to like stay connected and do all of that with each other ?

I'm reaching back to pull those executives , to pull those alumni into my current experiences , because they're the ones who have seen and worked with me in the past and they know if my advice works or not .

They're the ones who have been my case studies , my business cases on success and they're the ones who can come forward and explain to my current group what's working and what's not working and the role I played in that experience . And so that full circle experience has been great because I've learned from those experiences .

They're students I've had 17 years ago who were close to my age , who are now executives in industry and sport , and so I bring them into the classroom and they can help me , especially when we go international , because I've worked at international universities .

So I have executives who have worked in the FIFA World Cup , who've worked for large scale soccer organizations in Brazil , who have worked in soccer organizations in Argentina . I bring them into the classroom and then they can explain what has worked .

And then they start bringing up terms like authenticity , terms like effectiveness , social political strategy and so , or stakeholder salience , and then the students are hearing those terms from me , and then they're also hearing it backed up by the guest lecturers or the people , the alumni who I'm bringing in , and then they see the full circle that it's not just lip

service . It's actual , proven cases that have worked . And . I think when you get to the graduate level , you get to executive education . You know the theory they're not really interested in . They're more interested in what has worked .

Show me a business case , show me some proof that it has worked in the industry , because they want to be able to take that and use that as a roadmap for their success .

And so using the alumni and inviting them full circle to join my experiences , leveraging my international network from over the years , has been a major piece of my success but , more importantly , of the experiential learning environment I'm able to provide for the students .

It took a lot longer than he wanted it to , but I would advise him to keep on pushing because it'll all be worth it . I mean , I've seen some amazing things in this world .

I have traveled to over 50 different countries and it has all been a part of educational experiences that have been free , that have been a part of my job description , and it's been something that I have loved and enjoyed .

And while the speed and pace have increased and the stakes have increased to FIFA World Cup and to Olympic levels , it's still been the same thing . It's been about doing the job , it's been about building relationships and it's been about understanding the politics and strategies . It's been about those three things .

Can you talk about how you're able to find those folks and how you're able to keep them around in your life to continue to provide that support , that advice , throughout your career and through your life ?

I think years ago I stopped expecting a mentor at the job I had and I started seeking out people who were finding success and I started to ask them about that , their habits , and I think when you're reaching out and of course it could be a cold call or you're reaching out through LinkedIn , I'm trying to build a relationship and I'm looking for people who have

the same standards that I have . And so when I'm reaching out , I'm seeking advice , I'm looking to offer my services to build a relationship , and I think good people in the industry who are worth their salt are going to reciprocate because they are going to want to be around good people who are positive .

And so nurturing those relationships never making it transactional and I think that's the main thing I tell my students is that you never want to come across as a used car salesman when you're trying to network and build relationships , because people can kind of catch you a mile away .

So you want to build a relationship based on authenticity , you want to build it on seeking advice and you're looking for

. What habits did you build towards your success ? Because you want to emulate those types of habits and I think for a lot of my students and executives , and they're looking to get there as fast as possible . I always tell them that things organically build .

The same way it happens in your personal life as it does professionally , and you have to make the right decisions but also be willing to be humble enough to make a mistake and to apologize and to not come across as transactional , and so it's been a lot of trial and error over the years .

But I've been happy to say that I do have a board of directors in my network , those that I have looked out to when I make important decisions , those who I gauge if I'm on the right path or not , and that board of directors has maybe adjusted a bit over the years , but for the most part it's the same three or four people who have been pivotal to my

success , and I think as you grow you're going to add people to that list , move them from the list . But more importantly , you should have those people who help you make decisions and provide the advice .

That sounds like a lot of responsibility versus asking for a conversation because you're seeking for advice , and I've found that people are much more receptive to that and then from there you can build organically and build more naturally .

And to your point about not being a used car salesman I think the one of the ways to nurture that is to not only reach out when you need something . You can check in on people and see how they're doing . When you literally don't need anything , it's just like hey , how are you doing ? What's going on ?

Is there any way that I can help you or support you or what's going on ? Because we all have those people in our lives that only call us when they need something and it's like I love you and you're great . That's also kind of annoying .

So I think there's value in everything you just said about being strategic , about it , being intentional about it , but then now coming across as always , someone that is just trying to be transactional .

All these things were happening and it really gave me a pause to reset and to really take an inventory of the people and experiences that I was having in my life and how I was framing what was important and , I think , the habits that I built during that time .

I think if there was a silver lining is that I took a chance to reset and that has been so helpful in organizing who was important , my board of directors and where my energy was going , and so I think I hope that other people have been able to find that silver lining , because that was a tough time for all of us .

But I think during that pandemic time that was something that I really leaned on to really reset and organize my board of directors and my networking .

So , as someone that is in academia , running designing programs , with your years of experience understanding yourself , a master's and a PhD , what can someone expect to make in this type of field ?

But the true value of what you get as an academic is your consulting practice and grants and a lot of external money that you can use to bring your salary closer to 200,000 . And so you know , there's always the basis of what the salary is going to be , and then it's what you make of it .

And so , whether you're diversifying the revenue streams which I would advocate for you to do the base salary is going to be for your teaching , your research and your service at university .

But on top of that , there's many opportunities for grant work and for international consulting opportunities that can also be a significant chunk of additional revenue that you'll bring in . And so , at my level , I've been doing this for 17 years , and so you know my salary can range above the 200,000 range and to higher levels .

But then there's also people who have been able to make 300,000 or 400,000 based on roles as the dean of a school or as a university president , and so I think long gone are the days where you see the poor college professor . Those times are done .

and then not not even then thinking a level above , like the folks that are putting together the entire department , right , and thinking about how to grow that practice within the school , right , like these are things that a lot of us just never paid attention to .

But then also thinking and acknowledging , like you can make a good living while doing that , and it's all work that allows you to travel and see the world , allows you to really continue to hone in and be and remain an expert in your field and really create that network of professionals and executives that are going to go out into the , into the field , and that

, I think , is a really both rewarding and rewarding job right , yeah , you know , oh , 100% .

So I think everybody can negotiate what they bring to the table . But I think higher education is changed and , yeah , don't avoid it for the wrong reasons . I'll say that what was ?

I mentioned years ago , that was my world college athletics and I'm very proud of the fact that I still work in emerging leaders programs and career learning , because that's that's a focal point of my career as I transition from college athletics into global sport .

He's he's amazing and his his work life podcast has been great for helping me find balance at work because he's a he's a hard charging organizational theorist and he understands business and sociological dynamics and his podcast has been great about helping me to understand the different politics and strategies for navigating work life .

Then there's this pivot by Karen Swisher and Scott Galloway . That's also a fantastic one . Scott Galloway is one of my colleagues here at NYU .

Great work by him and Karen Swisher because pivot shows about industries and how you can follow the trends and understand ways to build business internationally , domestically , but more importantly , just understanding the different trends that are happening , business wise . And then , of course , lastly , the Prince by Machiavelli .

That's it's a political strategy book based on an Italian scholar , machiavelli , and it's it's great because I read it all the time because , as I go through different things at work , it's a strategy book that's more based on wartime , but I think , as we can all agree , with the layoffs happening globally and domestically here in the US , you know understanding ways

to position yourself in the organization and , as a leader , how to stay ahead of the guillotine . It's been very helpful with the tips in the book when you you see how transferable it is from the Renaissance period to today . So work life by Adam Grant , pivot by Karen Swisher and Scott Galloway and the Prince by Machiavelli .

Those are the three resources I recommend .

And those types of changes during the pandemic have been a true blessing , because those those times were tough , as I mentioned before , and I think I'm a better man and a better professor and a better person because of those experiences and it's just , it's amazing that the human spirit through the toughest times can can find so much joy and happiness , and so I

just hope people are understanding the silver linings and COVID-19 , the silver linings and the struggles we go through each day . But just lean on your family and the love . And I hope that can be helpful as you progress throughout your career .

See you next week with some more cheat codes . Peace .