049 | Fostering DEI in Tech with Maurice Wiggins

Eventually she was done hold me going to the military . I went behind her back and enrolled into college .

On today's episode , we have someone who has grown in human resources and strategy development and is now the head of global diversity , equity and inclusion at Google . Let's start the week with Maurice Wiggins .

You and I met during our time both working at Columbia and going to CIPA together for our master's program so , and you've continuously continued to just strive and achieve great things , and this is an inevitable conversation , so I appreciate you taking the time , yeah you're the smartest guy on the program .

So all the right innovation as it relates to technology and how as society intersects in a real way . So what I do is I basically help align a people strategy with the business strategy . So , as businesses forming , as teams are forming , I advise senior leaders that oversee those books of business .

As it relates to when you think about performance management , when you think about the hiring process , looking at the systems in place to make sure fairness exists in a global way . So we have teams that range in Europe , africa , asia and also the Americas . So I kind of help bring alignment there .

And also thinking about the employee experience , so kind of helping that translate to the leader . So when we think about like inclusion and belonging beyond , like a program , but like a sustainable program for culture shift and change .

So if you're thinking of , let's say , how do you advance employees throughout the organization and retain them , think about like real impactful career development programs , making sure the right sponsorship efforts are in place to kind of give visibility on that talent , but also what are we doing to kind of make Google remain a place of top choice employment ?

The other piece is a lot of crisis management . When problems happen , kind of helping the organization respond internally to external societal factors , so like anything that disrupts the society , whether it be in the US or outside the US , like right now the wars are going on , basically uprisings that take place across time .

Kind of helping leaders respond in real time internally to support our employees in that way .

So at this point I'm thinking about my key stakeholders inside and what they should know and what if we should be responding to something whether it be some disruption in another part of the country outside of the US and kind of preparing them about these are the current events that may impact our organization .

From that standpoint , I'm usually Monday and Tuesday getting my meetings lined up so I'm doing check-ins , kind of closing loop , on things that we ended on Friday and that could be preparing for an offsite .

Or a leader is going to speak to someone within the particular organization about data storytelling around our progress or progression of the employees within our organization . And then the other thing is a lot of coaching .

I do a lot of day-to-day coaching so my schedule could be back-to-back with just people seeking consultation on a strategy that they want to roll out , something they want to implement to kind of change their teams up . Within tech things are always fluid , so how things are this week it could be different next week and it's unpredictable .

So kind of navigating that ambiguous situation constantly .

So I know we're going to talk a little bit about my career , but I've kind of always led with kind of embedding , kind of like fair processes , inclusive leadership , like coaching , into my framework . So to me it's not a separate job , it's more so a function within a role that I do as like a transformational leader .

However , what makes this role a little different is that I'm in a room to kind of advise on the actual strategy when you're thinking about diversity , equity , inclusion , Sort of like a CDO within that book of business . So I'm basically looking at their systems , looking at things that they've worked out over years .

When you think of hiring , promotions , when you look at retention of the make-up though organization , I get a chance to kind of analyze that and kind of make real meaningful recommendations to kind of think about the next wave of leaders within that org .

And then what attracted me to this role , compared to my HR experience , is that I was always in the seat of kind of enforcing policy , advising and helping leaders interpret the policy .

But I was never really pushed back and say there is holes in this policy or it's only set up for certain people to succeed , Because in HR you're thinking of an inclusive org in general , ideally .

So in this role I'm able to kind of push the limits a little bit more , be a little bit more brave about , hey , this system that you have designed , it's not set up for everyone to kind of have the same fair outcomes . Before I wasn't able to say that I had to kind of well , let's revisit .

Well , and they're looking at data to say overall , this system is working . In this role I would say it's working for some , and so that's what attracted me to this particular role .

But she also had my oldest brother as well , so my grandparents took care of us so she can kind of finish school and kind of get on her feet . So for the first 10 years of my life I spent time with them , and then I moved in with my mom when I was 11 . And then I moved out to go to college at 17 and haven't been back home since .

And then it got a little bit more specialized to industrial psych , Like I wanted to be the guy that said , hey , if you had a vending machine in a break room , it increased morale and I was really fascinated by social psych and so that's what I wanted to do .

I changed my mind three years into that field , into studying , because I didn't like blood and I could tell you a really sad story . My professor committed suicide , my social psych professor . She was also a practicing psychiatrist and she committed suicide in her home .

And then also I had I forgot what that biology course is called , but it's pretty much dissecting the brain and I couldn't take neither one of those . So I'm pivoting to change the finance and marketing Wow .

Because I think we go into school thinking I'm going to do psych . I'm going to do whatever . You went in , you declared you , stuck with it for three years . Were you also doing other things on campus ? Were you involved in anything ? And you know how did that play out ?

Eventually she was done home , me going to the military . I went behind her back and Enrolled into college and I went to a state school at first . I went to University of North Florida Because it was close , it was easy as it was achievable . I found a way to get a little scholarship .

I started taking pictures , like photography photos and recording folks you know , just to be fun and stuff and that would help pay for like books and because my family wasn't supporting it . They I just didn't come from that type of family . I was the first one . I saw them like two cousins who went to college .

So it was always a foreign kind of conversation there and I Pledge Kappa very , kappa-pasai very young . I joined when I was a sophomore , our first semester , yeah , and so that's why I found brotherhood and found like signals of other black men that was successful and kind of like .

They kind of wrap their arms around me and kind of introduced me their families so I picked up a lot there . Eventually , two things happened the the change of major to finance , and my grandmother got ill and she always wanted me to go to the HBCU . My cousins before went to HBCU . It was very important to her .

I also had a little anxiety about graduating and not wanted to go into the banking space and places like that . But she said it's the best school of business . So I transferred to Florida A&M and I I technically like restarted my college career . Like I went in as a junior and Changing majors that late in the game .

I really basically added three more years to my college experience because of that . Yeah , it was crazy . So I had a pretty much like a did .

I felt more , I felt older , so I felt that it just looked weird to them that hey , you know I wasn't failing school , but it looked like somebody was returning the school . So I just I pledged very young , so by the things that they were on , I was like I need to just get out of here . It's down , yeah .

So I worked also Throughout undergrad for the most part . So I spent a lot of time working , especially when I transferred , so I can hit the ground and kind of catch up with the people who had at that time Graduated and I started school with .

So I worked there in a marketing team so I found jobs to do like marketing work . I really liked marketing , so I love opportunities .

You know , I think when , like , I was in college , right , and I did both jobs that did not align with my career Trajectory as I knew it at the moment right , and I did something that did know , it was like alright , I'm gonna do this work , study or this internship because I know it kind of aligns and it will set me closer on a path .

And then there were things I was like I'm gonna be a caterer because we got to make this money right . So I think that's a that's a very intentional move by you to say , okay , if I'm gonna study finance now , I mean try to get in this banking system in some way . That that at least built a resume .

So by the time you graduate , you have some path forward . So tell me about what happened senior year . What did you think you were gonna do when you graduated ?

We live on campus during the summer so I was able to be exposed to kind of bridge the gap of being interested in going to school versus the military . So I left that key piece out that helped drive like my interest in the college

. So fast forward to senior year graduated , didn't know where I wanted to live . You know , at this time I was still in Florida and I just know I didn't want to stay in Florida , but I didn't have too many reference points of people leaving Florida . So I stayed in Florida for a little . I stayed for a little bit in Tallahassee .

I work for the Department of Children and Family . I learned a lot about child support and all the terms of like government and things of that nature , and I wanted to live in LA I mean DC .

So I was applying for consulting jobs like a centra and all of the big consulting firms I saw my friends were working at and I just couldn't get a call back because they were like you're in Florida , like we're recruiting from certain regions and areas , and so I moved to LA .

I said , you know what , I'll do the photography thing full-time , because I had started building up a name for myself in a creative space and I always love creative work . And I said , okay , I'm gonna go out there .

Some agencies had asked me to do test shoots and I was being around other creators and it was exciting , but it just didn't pay to live the life that you know . You really wanted to live there .

So I moved to DC , eventually , taking a job and , moving to DC , stay there for six months it was during the time of the government shut down I moved there for a job .

As soon as I got there for the job , they say , oh , we can't move forward until the government reopened was with DC School board , as a HR director , I believe , at the time , and so I was a little devastated in that moment , can I ?

I think we sometimes say that's just so matter-of-factly , because that's a thing that we did , but like that takes a lot of courage at like 21 to say Let me go ahead and move across the country . Or let me go ahead and now move to the Northeast where , like , I have no one there presumably , right .

If I wanted to kind of have a life I want that's amazing .

It was such a status thing during that time I was there that it started messing with my mind . I was just kind of like and do I not fit in up here ? And New York was somewhere I always wanted to live , but it just seemed not realistic . It just no one in my proximity family . It was almost just like uncharted , not in your lifetime , in this generation .

And I said you know what to help with that ? I'm going to move to New York , you know . And I said I'm going to go and I'm going to go to Columbia to go back to school . Because it was a thing about the DC thing that kind of scarred me in a way . I said you know .

I'm going back to grad school and I'm going to go to the one of the best schools . You know , just certain things that I said hey , I see what I'm missing now , no matter what I do , how bold I am , and this may not be that valid , but it's just what I thought at the time . I said I need all of these things in order to be successful .

So I had like a lesson , a hundred dollars , they had my account and moved to New York . A friend of mine actually was like you can just stay with me , you know , and I had never stayed with somebody in that level and it was like , yeah , go ahead . His family was here and I said I'm going to be out of your house in a month .

He was like nobody moves to . New York and get a job that fast . And I literally woke up every day and put my resume out there and landed the job at Columbia at the medical center in two weeks .

Tell me about what you're doing and at what point did you land on what master's program or what you wanted to study and when you started that ?

So we call go through the interview . She's like yeah , this looks good , this sounds great . You know examples . But I hear in her voice that it was going to be . I said hey , miss Gibson , I don't know several interviews here up here in New York and people tell me I'm over qualified . I was getting that tone from her as well .

And I said and at this point I didn't care , I just knew I'd probably get the job and I said you know what am I doing wrong that I can't get the job ? And she said you know what ? Honestly , you're selling yourself too short .

She said you're shrinking all of your accomplishments and you know that's a problem , you know , for some people , because they feel that you're just going to leave . You know , you know you just that it is obvious that you are shrinking yourself . And then she also said you're asking for your . I was telling them . I said , yeah , give me $40,000 .

She said your salary acts is way below the market of this role . So I said okay , thank you . And I remember going home talking to my friends like yeah , I didn't get it . And she gave me the feedback .

I got my first check in the taxes . We got him , you got , I got tax of everything . So you know , but it was still a win for me . So within the first year I wasn't going to let this lady down , I was going to nail it .

And so I came and the role there was HR generalist , senior journalist manager , and what that meant was that in the medical center we have various departments and you get your own little client group . So it was the consulting work I like and you're responsible for the HR strategy and advising for those client groups directly .

And I had a small little client group . So I just killed it . I just kind of went above and beyond with the client group and I said I'm going to be the peer of Margaret . You know , I started seeing signals like that .

I think there's value in understanding at what point to do it right . And then , second , I think one of the biggest cheat codes ever is working at an institution that will fully pay for your master's degree or at least partially pay for your master's degree . Right , we were both employed by university , right ? So for us it's like that .

They saw the sense in the world and literally when I got , when I got the job offered to work at Columbia , I specifically said I'm going to get a master's I just don't even know in what . Right , like , I'm not walking out of here without a Columbia degree . So we'd love to hear kind of how your thought process was .

I know going to one of the top institutions and getting master's degree was in your cards and part of your goals , but we'd love to hear kind of what drove you to that specific program and at what point you made that

decision .

I will see how their profile is , see what they had , learn what they did and what they didn't do , and learn how to simulate in different environments to be adaptable , point blank period .

The next thing I knew it was about credibility in a space when it comes to like what we do , and a discipline versus if you are like an engineer , a doctor , you produce a product . That's something people can touch . When you are rising thought leader or kind of influencing folks , they need to establish credit .

You need to establish some form of credibility , and I was relatively young , so remember I'm working throughout college , so my next peer up is like 1012 years older than me , and so they had years of experience in different aspects . So for me , the education aspect was something I thought they were missing . Like you are not sharpening your skills and toolbox .

So I decided I got promoted within a two years at Columbia and got into , became a peer , a Margaret , in a way of my own client group kind of set with doctors and listen to them and their , their , their trajectory .

And I found it interest , interesting , that I started learning DEI in that way of like , wow , I'm the only one here , or what , what do a majority group do different than my own community ? Or you know why is there one black person leading this function versus other ? You know . So , trying to understand , like , what's happening there .

Like you know , I'm saying in 2012 or 2013 . So I applied to Columbia for this executive master's program , primarily because of I was able to still retain my full time job and go to school at night . And then it was a tuition benefit , like , if you're joined a company , cheat code there is that exhaust the benefit , especially if you know your salary .

Your total comp is all the benefits you have access to . So go to the doctor every time . You say if you are going to the airport , take advantage of that part , go to that meeting . I used to do those things . The other people didn't do , so the money was always there because people didn't utilize it .

So what attracted me to decide to go to the NPA program is that okay , I was going to be a long shot to be in this executive master's but it would expose me to more leaders who have kind of changed in the game and I applied . I took it so serious .

Sometimes I went to the orientation , I went to the meetups with professors and I was like I was like I'm not , like a first Ivy League student , I don't have this money like this and all these other things . So I had to figure out what was of interest of that program to kind of make sure that , hey , I'm going to come in and make a mark here .

And the policy program was good because it taught me how to influence policy , kind of understand the world in a real frame .

Versus in undergrad we learned about economics as a formula , versus in that program I was attracted to like , oh , microenterprising or this is what happened , you put a toll there and that stuff was valuable to the jobs and places I worked because no one knew how to translate it .

So that's why I chose that first masters , because it kind of gave me a competitive edge on the generational gap that existed in the workforce I was in .

Everyone was very intentional in the program you know I like that , and the professors and the content was relatable to what's happening in life and my job .

I will say I definitely agree with that right , because I feel like I mean , not only was Columbia University paying for a good chunk of it for me , but also I feel like spending evenings and Saturdays with a cohort for two years in a row , three years in a row , like that builds an actual bond and relationship of people that understand each other's kind of lack

of bandwidth . Each other you know what , what everyone has on their plate , what everyone's going through right , because we have folks from all over the world that are now kind of situated generally in the tri-state area because it's an executive program and we understand that .

You know , when you have a nine-of-five , sometimes we have people , we have families and we have things that we have to take care of and we have side gigs and we have side businesses , whatever .

But you make the time to really build that bond and that relationship and I feel like that network is incredibly valuable and , of course , the brand of Columbia kind of goes a long way .

So , you know , I think it's interesting to think about the benefits that we get out of it , because some of it is really intangible , but some of it is tangible , like we have a relationship . There are folks that , like I've been to their weddings because we were in the program together , right , like you know what I mean .

So you just kind of build these relationships where , like they last well beyond the time there .

And then the third thing would be SIPA . I would say SIPA is the best professional investment I made in myself , you know , because it was just one of those situations of like when I left or even going through that program , you felt like you accomplished something .

You didn't feel like it was given to you , but you also was forced to learn how to collaborate with folks , and that is a big skill set that works in tech right now definitely for me in a real way to exchange ideas and kind of be valued for your own Individual contribution .

And then I said , okay , the salary wasn't substantially different , you know , and I didn't know what I wanted to do after I knew I wanted to kind of focus on my own firm , and then so I said , okay , if I'm gonna stay at Columbia and the benefit is still there , I'm going to do a program that I wouldn't have paid for .

That has just been an interest to me and it would kind of sharpen my consulting skills , and that's what made me do the strategic communication program .

As a parallel track , tell me when you started that and what type of consulting services you've been able to offer .

I was very interested in like photographers , graphic designers and such people that are behind the scenes and like the arts communities helping represent them from a management standpoint so as they're building up their own businesses and things like that , to kind of help with like contracts or coaching for like negotiation and kind of representing themselves .

Sipa in our capstone , the guy who led our capstone , did something similar and he helped fine tune . I use my capstone opportunity as a way of fine tuning my consultancy in a way to kind of legitimize it and like LLC it and all other stuff and I had access to him so I just use that . And then it moved into management consulting .

People will come to me , especially people in my professional network , and say , hey , I'm struggling with this HR issue , I'm struggling with managing up , I'm stuck here .

So it started doing more executive coaching and then from a creative side I love creativity I was just told I couldn't focus on it and I was frowned upon where I grew up at so I used to do it on the side . I was freelance right and so I had a whole network of people on the New York end of that , that .

I will funnel that work through to consultancy so it wouldn't impact my professional HR land . So it was almost like I was having two different brands operate at the same time . So CEPA was for this side , the StratCom was for the other creative side .

How do I make sure that I am sharp and like , presentable enough so that I have all the tools for when I gain clients I can really advance that ? Do you still consult to this ?

We'd love to hear how long you were there and what that transition out of it was like for you .

I felt , in a way of like my career to a point that it felt like I was threatening folks in different ways . So it became a little bit more of like , hey , you're moving too fast here , and so that that didn't feel so great .

And then I also knew that I was staying around primarily for people versus my own career , you know , and I never want to be complacent or comfortable just for others . So that was the biggest driver . And then I wanted to have a broader impact . That was the biggest , the biggest thing , a thing that I wanted to do .

I wanted to kind of find a place that my creative interests and my professional background are married in a real way . The Medical Center , to me , frowned upon that type of profile . It seemed like they liked the decorated , professional side of it . But innovation , creativity , things of that nature I just felt that there was too many gaps there .

I felt like a unicorn there , and that wasn't amazing to me . I wasn't growing . I started having little situations being in HR space where I would see bad leadership , bad management , and I couldn't say anything , because it's my role as a steward of the org to just make sure we uphold the policy .

I would sit in meetings and watch processes come to life that everyone is voting on . I'm like , hey , this doesn't work for everyone and blah , blah , blah . I applied no , I did not want to work in tech , I did not want to work at Google . One of my frat brothers reached out to me and he said hey , you about to graduate , you should come work at Google .

I said I don't know , I need to focus on my own thing . I said this is the last place I'm going to work at . He said no , no , no , I love it here . He's a hard sell . He was like , no , you could really do what you want to do here .

I said , okay , I threw my hat in the ring at Google and went through the process and they came back and told me that they can move forward just due to some team changes and things of that nature . I was like , oh my God , they wasted all my time . I basically I love the arts and the creative space . The Whitney Museum reached out to me .

They wanted to recruit us and say , hey , we have a great opportunity to be the first CHRO at the Whitney Museum . I was like what does that mean ? Chief Human Resources Officer , the first one . And this is what you'll be doing . You'll be defining the people strategy and you get a team . It's like C-suite . I was like are you working with the board ?

My internal network was like oh my God , this is like . Here you go , you're advancing 10 years before yourself . I said , okay , I'll explore it . I went to the Whitney Museum . I did not think I would move back deeper into a nonprofit sector like that .

That was one thing I was like , unless I'm driving like an executive director of one where I'm kind of leading the vision of it . I said I don't know . I said nonprofits could be a little difficult if the structure is not ready to change .

I felt that what I signed up for was different than what was happening and it could be a response to the pandemic business changes . It just I didn't sign up for the things that they had me doing . At that point . I was doing well to them , but to me I felt like this could feel like a long-term commitment of unhappiness .

So when Google reached out to me , I was talking to my executive coach and she said hey , you know , you have to do what's best for you . I said I do want to work in the tech space , the emerging leaders , the way the world is changing . That is where I wanted to ultimately start consulting at . And then the leader that I'll be working on there .

I saw Melanie Parker . If you all don't know her , look her up . She's the CDL currently of Google , and I saw her present somewhere in her HR background , and so I saw myself in her I said , wow , she did it . She went from like Lockheed Martin and eloquent , graceful , smart and black woman .

So it was my first time seeing a trajectory beyond myself , and so I took the opportunity to work under her and that was it . So I hit tech running . It was a different space , but it had some comparison to healthcare , like engineers , the doctors and aspects like that .

And when Melanie approached me about you know like hey , I want to move you to support this team it felt like I was going right back into academia and like working with like doctors and PhDs . But it's the best decision I made .

I mean , I'm on surrounded by a bunch of thought leaders in the AI space and kind of things that are interesting to me , and it also was a way for me to marry what I'm enjoy and then also use all of these tools I collected over the years .

You know , like if I had a Maurice , like throughout the journey I just described , to have someone to say like hey , I'm advocating for you , I'm supporting you , here is the policy , I'm in the room to ensure that you have a fair landing and whatever you're navigating that work , I would feel so much better in different spaces .

And so the leaders are going to be leaders . But just seeing you know , from underrepresented employees to women to even majority group folks , feeling like okay , I see myself in the work , like that makes me feel great , like real allyship and really real understanding why the work we do is so important versus it feeling performative .

So when I was working at HR in New York City , at that time you can get upwards to like $150,000 base like . It was just one of those situations as a director . This is what you could expect in a real like organization about maybe 1500 people if you're kind of overseeing that particular space

. When I moved into tech , the way our comp is kind of set up in tech , you know across most tech companies it's like total comp and base and then like bonus and situations . To some people equity is more important . To some folks they want their money upfront .

So in a role like mine with the years of experience you can get upwards to like 250 or so around that . When it comes to like a base itself for what you're doing Now you got to understand that's at scale at like a company that has 200,000 employees plus almost in this same role at a smaller org you might make about 175 around that ballpark .

However , your impact is a little bit more direct of what you're doing and the scale is smaller . So , for example , you might be supporting a population of about 2000 employees , but you're defining the strategy from beginning to end Me . I'm working globally across many different teams to kind of help support there .

Now , without that it you can still get paid the same , but you may get lower because you're not bringing anything extra but that . So I've always tried to find roles where multiple skills are being used at once . So I just don't want to inflate the number and people say , well , I need to do something , to do DEI work . That's not what I'm saying .

I do racial equity strategy , which is different in DEI work and it's a part of DEI work . I will say that .

Will folks externally see the value where you're bringing right ?

But certainly what I'm hearing from you is there's definitely value where you're bringing outside like to the external world when you leave academia and especially when you rounded with your consulting , with your experiences before academia , additional degrees and all of the things that you've learned throughout that time and as a matter of , I'm sure , how you package that ,

that makes the world too .

Well , yeah , you probably stopped contributing to that company two years in and for a lot of reasons . It could have been a lot of reasons why you may say , well , I'm not gonna reinvest in you and so I definitely , being an HR , I've seen it on both ends of the spectrum .

Now , pay equity is a different term , like if we're doing the same job and we're coming in with the same requirements basic qualifications so we should start at a baseline .

You know now if you are coming in with an MD and I'm just coming in with our NPA , we should probably still start at the same , because I don't know why that MD is relevant to what you're doing here .

So I just wanna make sure that people understand that dynamic there and now , with the laws , that it was different from when , when UNI started in New York state and places like that salaries are published so you go in knowing what you're going to be getting and the job is thinking about comp versus UNI had to kind of throw kind of guess like magic , eight ball

, it you know .

So the best book ever Like if you read that and what that book taught me was to kind of how to make decisions , to kind of pull away from unlearned behavior , like unlearning certain behaviors that probably have helped me back , or expectations that didn't kind of they weren't realistic .

The next book was the Secret , as you think about my moves around different places . That was like a guidebook , the kind of say manifestation and kind of doing what's right . And then there's your academia books , like Rich Dapork , who Moved my Cheese like . So I fall hard on those books . Social media I've always saw social media as a networking social outlet .

I struggle getting my news from there In 2023 , 2024 , that is the new beacon of conversation . But to me , I still try to connect and go to conferences , kind of learn . I like learning in real time with real people and storytelling , listening to people's stories . So that's key . I'm an aspect .

And then there's so many resources like I'll link down to stuff that kind of always sharpen your saws . I'm always going back to school or getting a certification just learning different vocabulary if you're interested in a certain particular field .

So I always knew that if I wanted to do something it was going to be up to me and I've had that mentality that I could break barriers and break walls . It's just about what you do with that power .

And so I've always been mindful of , like , if I'm going to go into uncharted territory , even if I can't bring people with me , just make space there for someone else to come after me in that aspect . And the second piece is give yourself grace .

That's another thing I wish that someone would have told me , because at one point I was just pushing , running , running , running and you started feeling like , well , why did I invest in that time to do that ? Because I just felt like it was necessary , because I was in so many different social networks . And then the last thing traveling .

Traveling kind of connect , not just network . I like to connect with people and I think that's what brought us here , you know , in different ways Like life can be so transactional , so humans really like connection on their needing it and I think that's what sets people aside now in the workforce socially relationships . It's just connecting in a real way .

I love that .

Make sure you follow us on Instagram and LinkedIn at career cheat code and tell us people or careers you would like to see highlighted . See you next week with some more cheat codes . Peace .