Connect 4...Cars

On this edition of the car Chum podcast. (CLIP) Well, it's pretty simple. Really. We, we do what we've been doing for the last year. One of us talks about a car and the other one pretends to be interested  and she's a doctor. (CLIP) So I thought it was quite important. Ah, yeah. Her car starts. Yeah. I thought it was quite important she had a Toyota .  (CLIP) So they thought, well, I wonder if we could put smaller tires on and sort of T them in behind the spoiler, this then resulted in...under steer. Well, yeah. 

Competition time on Car-Chum this time. Well, sort of, I should warn you. This podcast does contain car related material and some of it is even correct too.

I'll let my Car-Chum mic explain what we're doing in this episode. Fantastic. What should we start with? Start with a whimper today. Mike was your idea, your responsibility. So  you explained, asked me to explain it now, aren't you? Yeah, no, I, I was thinking this, what a, what a golden opportunity. Since you couldn't come up with another to try and wedge in some cars that we haven't spoken about before.

So possibly this will work possibly it won't, but I think one of us starts off talking about a car and then when he eventually runs out of steam in about probably 35 to 40 minutes. The other one then Tries to come up with a reason that their car is related to the previous choice. It's prob we're not gonna be as sticklers for it as we often are when you invent a game.

But it's, it's mainly just, I thought let's choose four or five cars each and see if we can link them together in some clever way, because we don't know what the other person's chosen. So hence the. The fun element. So this is following on from the absolutely massive and Enormous. That means the same thing success of the, the engine size quiz that we didn't learn from the first time  and went in for a second episode,  this, this, this sort of takes up the mantle of that.

Does it? The ever popular second episode.  that's right. The, the never popular engine size quiz. Yeah. Yeah. But that's going back sometime. Yeah, look, look, look through that. And the the annals of car jump history. That's well, I thought it was quite fun somewhere. Yeah, it was quite maintained. Anyway, here we go.

Well, back to this type of fun, do you wanna, do you wanna kick us off then or no? I wanna see how it works and then basically copy what you've done. Well, that's pretty simple. Really. We, we do what we've been doing for the last year. One of us talks about a car and the other one pretends to be interested.

well rapidly Googling to try and work out what the hell you're talking about. No, I don't that actually. And then about 20 minutes further in go. Oh, that one. Yeah. I used to have one of those. Yes. Right. I a dozen of them, an old driveway. Until the council removed them. I've got one now.  why did I not recognize that?

All right. Well, I'll, I'll start then in that case, if you were probably still researching if I was to say to you world's first supercar, what would you You've responded with that blank expression you do so well. Well, last time you gave me what you asked me, world's first people carrier and it ended up being the fear Muller multiplier.

Yeah. It's not the fear multiplier this time that wasn't the world's first supercar. I'll be honest. I, I didn't initially think about it. And then when I was doing my research, it was suggested in the book and I thought, oh, kind of, I guess if I was to say to you 40 inches, Oh, GT 40. Yes, indeed.

Indeed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that was suggested that GT 40 was the first world's first supercar and I'm kind of in two minds about that. They did make road going versions. It wasn't just a race car. And of course named as, as you quite rightly say, being 40 inches high is actually 40.5 inches high, but apparently that didn't sound so good.

the the, Hey, love your love, your duty 40.5. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I, I guess they thought of 40.5 its under suggested like there would be a 40.6 coming or a 40.7. If you've seen the film Ford versus Ferrari, you are aware of the story which was essentially Henry Ford II wanted to win LA on and they figured the easiest way to do it was to buy Ferrari and that all fell apart.

Somewhere along the line, it for, for reasons, still unknown. Oh, It, but, but it was a serious project. It wasn't just a desire of Ford. It actually got into talks and oh yeah, they, they talked me. I think it was May, 1963. They they met for several months of, of discussions about Ford trying to buy Ferrari.

What I hadn't realized was Ferrari in about 1962, early 63, he got bored of selling road. CARSs he just wanted to manage the race team. He actually approached for. And offered them Ferrari for sale, but Ford being such a massive organization, evidently Ferrari, I think probably just phoned them or wrote to them.

And the message never got through to the right people. I suspect, you know, the phone rang and Hey, it's Enzo Ferrari here and a yeah. Right. Whatever. But he was willing to sell before Ford even thought about it. They do say don't they, that, that, that, that Ford is, is, is, or was sort of run, run by the finance department.

Is that, is that, is that something that you've, you've heard or not? Yes, yes and no. I think, and obviously here, we're talking about Ford of America in the 1960s who were a massive, massive corporation. They still are today. Ford's never been a tiny organization. They've always been right across the globe, but back then they had money to.

They were anything that their rivals did Ford then tried to outdo them. They, you know, killing a butterfly with a sledge hammer was the way that Ford operated, they would throw money up at things because they insisted on being number one whenever they possibly could. So anyway, the, the the discussion broke down probably because of the way that they swarmed into the factory and Enzo got a bit upset and then the Enzo Ferrari.

and they, I suspect told him how they were gonna run the race team. And Enzo really just wanted to be left alone. Mm-hmm  and famously Ferrari only, ever. To road cars to pay for his racing. He wasn't interested in making money. He just wanted to race cars. So he basically told them where to go four then in a very American way of being annoyed, decided we're gonna do whatever it takes to beat Ferrari at Lamont Ferrari was one of the conquering race teams at Lamont.

Ford wanted the bloody there noses very, very publicly. So. They approached Cooper racing and Cooper was too small. They approached Lotus to try and build a, a Lotus Ford, obviously around that time, Lotus cor that did happen. But the GT 40 project didn't work at Lotus cuz Colin Chapman insisted that they badge the cars as, as Lotus, which four didn't wanna know about.

So they finally teamed up with Lola Lola who I was amused to find out the name actually came from the song, whatever Lola wants.  really which a 1958 hit. Yes. You know, where whatever Lola wants Lola gets mm-hmm  that They named it,  it. After the song that could have gone very, very wrong.  1950, we're building a set of cars called Joe S rock.

 But 1963, Lola mark six, which got to fifth place in the 1963 LA mom, before the gearbox failed. But it used a 4.2 liter Ford V8, which is what attracted Ford. They essentially. Built the GT 40 off the back of this Lola in SL the reason seems to be because it was near Heathrow airport and they knew there were gonna be a lot of flights back and forth, London, England to really out to Dearborn.

Yeah. So it appears to be why they choose they chose SL cause it was Bero that region. Of course, well, SLA had the CI DS factory. CI and factory yeah. Where they built the traction of S and the DS and the variations of the DS. Yeah. There were a few manufacturers in flour, which we won't go into now, but yes, they certainly were a few GT 40, as we said a moment ago, if you don't edit it out 40 inches high, more or less, but apparently also 40.5.

I thought, Mike, doesn't it just have something in my memory there, but yeah. Do you know what you're quite right.  you've taught me there. But apparently the early drawings, the car was called the model 40 and somewhat tenuously. The windscreen apparently is 40 degrees angled.  so take from it what you will as to how they came up with the GT 40 anyway  technically, and I, I've not quite managed to figure this out because this was an English car built in, in England, but then the mark two versions were built in the states and they developed into something called the J car project as well, which was kind of the final initiation of the, the not initiation, which was kind of the final iteration of the iteration.

I'll do that for third time. Or we could just leave the mistake in it's up to you.   I forgot where I was now.

right. So Ferrari wanted to, oh, you do Mike, please do tell us at all again,  I'm gonna do it in one breath. But yeah, so supposedly. You can only call the series one and the series three cars GT 40, the others, cuz they were built in the states. Aren't technically GT 40, but we'll leave that to an expert.

If somebody wants to message us and tell us how that works. So they take them out to test them. They'd only had access to a wind tunnel that went up to 125 miles an hour. So it was a bit of a surprise when the cars got to 150 and the rears lifted off the ground. I say, God, it got a little bit light.

Did they?  yes, very much did. Yes. Yes. So following two two crashes, the first of which was fairly fairly serious with. Cars number one. And number two, they basically decided, Hmm. We should probably probably put a spoiler on the back mm-hmm , which arrested the air development and and kind of kept the rear ends down, but they still really had absolutely no idea what was gonna happen when these cars hit their potential of 200 miles an hour.

Nobody had managed to drive one that fast. They'd not done, not had that much chance to do much testing. So for 1964, All four GT 40 dropped out out of the Lamont race. They they've done other testing, but we'll stick to Lamont. Otherwise we will be all night, but they did manage to to hit 213 miles an hour and set a new lap record 2 13, 2 1 3.

2 1 3, yeah, 213 miles an hour, which wasn't bad going. 19 six in what year are we? 64. 64. 64. Yeah. They then brought out a bigger version. So initially these had been 4.2 liters 2, 2 60 S 2 89 cubic inch cars. They brought out for the mark two 4 27 7 liter V8, 485 break, which made it the most powerful car to ever race at Lamont.

Again, this is Ford. Killer butterfly with a sledge hammer. Let's make it the most powerful car that's ever raced at Lamont. They entered nine cars in the Daytona 24 hours for 1965. Because this was the thinking that there's another 24 hour race in, in, in America. At least we can try and get this guy and came first, second, third, and fifth for 1966, they entered eight cars plus five private entries.

So they are not taking any chances though. They got 13 GT forties in LA. And the Laman race. And this of course was the year that they won largely cuz the five Ferrari five Ferrari versus 13 GT, the five Ferrari, all dropped out. This was also when the controversy was. And again, if you've seen the film, you'll know all about this, if you've seen Ford versus Ferrari, but Ford wanted a photo finish with three GT, forties, all crossing the line at the same.

The third GT 40 was some way back in the listings, but two of them were first and second. Right. So they said to Ken miles, who's who's the guy who's mainly featured in the film. They asked him to slow down. So Bruce McLaren and the second GT 40 could catch up. Yeah. And Ford literally wanted these two cars to cross the line together.

Mm-hmm  precisely at the same second, which would've. Frankly made a mockery of the race, cuz you can't have two cars running together. And then that would've ended up in some somewhat complicated maths about who did the greatest distance, which of course is what Lamont's about is who's driven the furthest.

It's not always who cross the line first. It's, who's done the greatest mileage in 24 hours. And that would've then come down to who was parked where on the pit wall. And it could have been a matter of meters, but anyway, Ken mile, Ken miles slows down as he's been told, Carol Shelby was running the team at the time.

It's the right slow down. Just as they approach the line, Bruce McLaren puts his foot down and crosses the line first.  what a boy it's the, it's the racing driver thing. He just couldn't do that, but it's, it's, it's very sad because for Ken miles, he would've been the first person to win Daytona, Seabring LA on, in the same year.

But priest McLaren denied him that did they, did they stay good friends? I think Ken miles from everything I've managed to to learn was a really nice guy. Right. And obviously they have mutual respect. I mean, Bruce McLaren, no slouch behind the wheel. Mm-hmm  Bruce McLaren developing McLaren's, you know, but the, the problem there was.

Ford's main sponsors were BP and Firestone mm-hmm , but the car that McLaren was driving was shell Goodyear sponsored . So it was still a Ford entry, but it was shell Goodyear. So then the end, they, it, it, it was tricky because obviously then their main sponsors couldn't advertise the fact that their car came second.

Ford ended up being BP, apparently about $40,000 in. Right. And it was, it was a complete mess, but they'd won. Laman it cost them 22 million, 1969, Porsche 9 1 7 S came in. If you've seen the Steve McQueen film Lamont, the 9 1 7 was the all conquering car, the big long tail, the famous blue and orange golf cars.

Yeah. Golf colors, not golf cars golf at the on or, or golf carts. Yeah. Golf carts. Yes. They, they won in 69 Jack icks. Won that one because they all the nine one sevens dropped out was the first year for the Porsche nine 17. And  they just weren't as reliable as the GT forties who by now had been running for five years.

Yeah. Yeah. Five years of development. And that was the mad thing. They actually used one of the original GT forties for the 1969 race. So they were racing in a five year. 1964 car. And that's what won. I was waiting to get into a car show once and you get chatting to people in the queue. And I was an older guy who clearly had an error of money about him, sort of people I'm attracted to.

And he was talking about cars, he'd owned, you know, various things. And we got onto GT 40 and he said, oh, I had one in period. I'm thinking like, oh, you know, kick car then no, no, I actually have one of the road going cars. He said I only had it for a few months. Because he said it was a fantastic car.

You turn up for a date and women were massively impressed by this GT 40 until they then tried to get into it. Cause obviously they're very low car with any elegance whatsoever. Yeah. He says amazing turning up at some of the best restaurants in this thing, unless it was raining. The cars leaked. They had, if you picture the GT 40, they had a door that was basically half the roof and the door opened with the roof.

But they said they all leaked. So if it rained water collected in the seats, they had a bucket seat that was a very sort of deep back to them. So you sat with your knees above your. Your bum mm-hmm . And so the water just collected in there in spite the fact that they had little holes in, in the seats for perforated, they just got damp and you'd get out with a wet as

And he said he never got a second date. If you took this car anywhere  because women had to spend the entire meal, sort of sat in a damned dress. . And that is this week's car jump

next week. I know what Tony wanted to talk about. Mike. Mike does one of two things, one, nothing, or two. Everything. You, you are indeed a binary. You are zero or one . Is that really 20 minutes? I feel like I've I've given, given a that's that's all it was.  given a talk to a university or something.  that's alright.

Half, half the students left. Don't worry.  only half that's. That's what the noise was. That was the, those swing doors at the back banging. Cause people were leaving. So half the students left, which means now we've got an audience of. So GT 40 through, what's can you connect one of your choices? Prob probably not GT.

Do you know what I, I actually, I actually totally lost the plot of remembering that that's what one was supposed to do. So I'm now frantically looking through my list, talking Ford putting that spoiler on the back, having only tested the GT 40.5 to It was 125 miles an hour. They had a similar problem.

Didn't they? With the with the Sierra when they first launched it? Not, not, not above 125 miles an hour.  With the 1.6 Pinto engine, but side crosswinds. Do you remember, does this ring any bells? Yeah. And that's why if you look at a Sierra you've got the front window, the rear window, then you've got the sort of, what do you call it?

A C pillar? Just sort of triangular bit of glass at the back. Does it have a name? I dunno whether there is a name. But anyway, yeah, the little triangular piece of glass for a hatchback. On the side, I dunno, on, on the XR four I, you mean, ah, no, no, no. That have four paints of glass. That was unique for that, but no, just on the standards three or five?

No, on the, on the standard five doors. Oh, right at the back. Yeah. The last triangular little bit of, yeah. Does he have a name? No, not that I'm aware of. Sometimes they were called in American one's opera windows or something. Weren't they were, they called opera windows. They were opera windows. If, if you had a, basically a, a little kind of porthole.

Yeah. Well, they were called op I opera windows, I think are the sort of oval shaped because I've heard like early Thunderbirds obviously had what they called a porthole. Yeah. Which was a rounded piece of glass. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I dunno why I'm doing a symbol for rounded with my hands, cuz no one can see me other than you and, and, and curiously.

I know what round is.  yeah. It's it's it's you come, you come across that, have you in, in the past? No, I was thinking the other day about, about, about three or four. Probably five years ago when we met up at a, at a CHMS house and he had a cat that was really unhappy and a cat lashes its tail. It's not happy in the same way that a dog is.

I remember explaining that to you cause you're like, he's a, he's a bit changeable. Isn't he? Well, he's lashing his tail mate. He's not, he's a cat. It's not happening. I thought they were the same as dogs anyway, that, that rear window that, that trying you like watch chair isn't yeah. If you. On it don't really know how to describe it, but it has a, that just that window has a very small spoiler on.

Does it, and yeah, it does not on the very, very early, if you look on a, a UK registered Y reg one, you know, first sort of 83, the very first ones don't and they suffered, I think, from crosswinds. So they were wobbly at speed in the wind putting this tiny little spoiler down the side. Apparently fix it, I guess it just sort of interrupts the air flow a bit and I dunno, puts a bit of lateral weight on the car.

Dunno. Why did, why did that not affect the three? Version. Cause they just had one piece glass along the back. They did, they did a three door hatchback. Yeah. And of, I guess, you know, with when the saloons came out, the Sapphire, they didn't need mm-hmm  that because this must have been something to do with the hatchback.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But Anyway, there we are. But, but that, I'm pretty certain, that's what that, that is. If you see that on this air, I was just gonna say, I remember hearing that the Volvo 2 40, 1 of the yeah, much brick like vehicles you could ever imagine. Because of the way that they had a long flat roof they were actually quite aerodynamic.

Once the air got kind kinder to the windscreen. Once we got past that big bumper and grill, they were a fairly. Fairly good aerodynamic car because they had this sort of cam tail long roof and why they never needed to spoiler on the back of the two 40. And of course that and other reasons the but the, the, the also having a, a bluff flat front end, like a Volvo two 40 or a, I don't know, you know, an early four before range Rover classic or whatever, it's actually better for pedestrian safety as.

By comparison to more slippery angle designs. Cause they tend to have more of a, a point which creates more of an impact at the front, whereas a bluff front and the, the, the load is spread. Anyway, this has got absolutely nothing to do with the, the game. New to me, your choice, Tony, number two. Well, yeah.

Yeah, second and last. The there's a new DeLorean been announced instantly. Have you seen that? No. Supposed to, to, to. DeLorean DeLorean of the past, which is difficult considering there's only one, of course the DMC 12. But this, this looks absolutely nothing like that. What, so it wiped that through your mind, it apparently is supposed to look like the DMC 24, which even to you will mean nothing.

I suspect. No, it was just a concept. But okay. Imagine a generic seventies Itel design, five door hatchback. If you put that in your mind, that, that that's kind of, kind of what it, what it, what the DFC 24 was Golding doors. Yes. The new one has got Golding doors. It is of course, you know, going to be an EPU EV com company  yeah.

Knew that  that would excite you. But, but don't worry, Mike, with the cost of electricity going up so much people will revert. to petrol and diesel cuz it's cheap. Wow. So, so when Martin McFly goes back to 1955, he's gonna have to find electricity from somewhere . That, so that, that was in the news.

That's got nothing to, I know what made me think of that because it's so sort of super car que . But, but that was, oh, I see. Yeah. I, I thought you're gonna say just your mind wandered within the last four hours story that I was selling and you went through every car you'd ever heard of. While you all wait for me to shut up?

Yeah, no, give me okay. That works. Yeah. Super calm. Yeah, I know. How about, yes, Scott. I've got a link here. Okay. So what is the diff this God, this is tenuous, but what is the difference between an Audi Quatro and an Audi co GT qua? Ah, now I'm tempted. I'm tempted to say four wheel drive and wide arches.

Cause the GT was basically the Kupe body, but the cuatro often, but not always had wide arches. And I remember having worked on various magazines over the years, and this is not necessary, but certainly the one I worked on for the longest, we always had this thing where this is boring, but anyway Quatro.

The four wheel drive system. Quatro was always an uppercase, a capital Q. Yes, but the model name Cuattro is always lowercase Q and they used to drive. Oh, that's marginally interesting. Is mad. Used to drive people utterly mad. And that should be uppercase. No, no. Cuz we're talking about the car, not the four wheel drive system, but if you look at the bad, bad John cuatro on the boot bad.

Yes. A small lowercase. Yeah, it is it's but that doesn't answer your question. I would guess, I would guess wide arches and four wheel drive. Okay. But I'm sure you are now gonna tell me that that's not always the case. Well, I, I I'm, I'm enjoying learning about model designation, numbers, spelling. Yeah.

Spelling you know, with, with the, the golf LA in the last podcast, you know, the, a one to five and. Series a one, a two, a three, a four, a five, a six. And then they go to, I pretty much flush that from my mind. BQ 94 or something is the next one. Yeah. Good. Good. So what, what do you think the first Audi would be the B one?

No, no, no, no, no. It's no, no, the B2, I mean, you know, why start with one two generations of cup, a B2 and B3. The Quatro with the small queue that you have in your mind is the B2. So the squareish shaped cup, same body ashes to ashes the hack, correct? Yes. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, fire up the Yeah.

But the copay launched similar kind of time, much, much mild version. And therefore, always in my mind I dunno, one of those things where it's sort of half a five pound note, you know, it's a bit disappointing, you know, the Quatro with the, the small queue yeah. Is the kind of the one you want, but that does the, Kupe a little bit of de disservice.

Certainly the smaller engine ones probably. Very very lukewarm. Yeah. They did a 1.6 for a while, but mainly mainly one point eights to two point threes. The biggest one though, was the interesting one, the 2.3, cuz that was at least the five cylinder. So you got a mm-hmm  you know, you got, you got, you got, you got a soundtrack with it.

Mm-hmm  they did though, a Quatro version of pretty much all of those engines. Mm. In the Audi Cooper.  so what you got was, let's say let's take the 2.3, 2.2 or 2.3, five cylinder with a cuatro system with a big queue, as I've now learned. Mm-hmm  and quite a bit of the sort of body addend and, and whatnot, and the, even the, sort of the the diff lock switch and, and all of that insight.

Nice, nice. But it wasn't a Quatro with a small queue. Okay. Yeah. So it is. It's a four wheel drive GT COE. Mm. Yeah. Minus the wide arches. Yes. I don't think they had the, the, the massive extensions, but they had some body kit and cuatro badging, but it was GT COE. Quatro manufacturer really, really know how to make these things difficult and  over time.

It's because it's because it's done by engineers. Isn't it. I always have that in, in in electronics and sound systems are, you know, always you can look at something and say, yeah, that system, that system was designed by an engineer without a shadow over doubt. You know, you could spot a user designed one and a, an engineer, the engineer one tends to work, but the U the user one tends to get used.

yeah,  the en the engineer version tends to be the one that when it stops working, you can't fix exactly.  the but anyway, back to back to the, the, the, the, the dear old I've got, I never, I never really liked it as I say, because I always thought it was, you know,  so we planned yeah. Wet weekend, but I've kind, but, and they were only ever yeah.

Pretty cheap to buy. Now they're beginning to get a little bit of interest and actually those Quatro GT cos are rarer than the Quatro with the small queue. Yeah, absolutely. It's it, I, I think cuz the, the, the broad wide arched guards were so in your face mm-hmm  and loud, that there is a school of thought that suggests, well, you get most, if not all of the driving experience in a co with the Quatro four wheel drive system.

Yeah. But you don't have to shout about. Yeah. Yeah, it's a, it it's sort of like buying a, a nine 11 turbo in a subtle color.  rather than all you look at me red, but. I I'd be interested to know. And perhaps you can answer this. If they went to all the trouble of putting the Quatro system in the Quatro and the big wide arches and the wider tires and so on, then wasn't the co with the cuatro system.

I, I guess they had a smaller engine in them. Yeah. So you just had to have a smaller engine car with better Handl. No cause it was the same. It was the same. It was the same. Was it the same power plant? I was gonna say it's the same bottom end and whatnot. I don't know that it was, but this, the, the, the, the, the co could ha you could have the 2.2 or 2.3, five cylinder.

Now the Quatro with a small queue was a five cylinder. Wasn't it? Yeah. Five cylinder was say, well, why, why then did you need the wider tires? The wider arch is to cover the wider wheels and tires. If you could just buy a co a GT with the same sort of power and it could cope with it, or, or did they all crash?

Yeah,  no, didn't have the same sort of power mic. Cause you didn't have the turbo. Didn't have the turbo. So the turbo was the difference. You, you couldn't get a non wide arch without correct? With a turbo. Yeah. Not, not that I'm aware of. Yeah, but of course, then the cuatro then went on the cuatro system as in, you know big queue went on to find fame in the, the 80 on which the Cooper was.

The 100, the 200 and then, you know, all models ever since it's a hell of a brand, isn't it Quatro? I find, I, you know, I find it very appealing still and yet so many manufacturers and models have four wheel drive systems, you know, and think of the, like XR four before, or, you know, similar period vintage.

But, but, but, so there's something about those. How many letters? 1, 2, 3, 4. Got two Ts in it. Yes. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7, 7, 7. Okay.  I did know, I did a, a quick search to see if I could find any famous cups, Audi RI no, no, no, no, no. That would've been easy. Audi cups instead they do appear in a few films.

The most interesting I thought was probably golden. I, the bond. Heard in that. But, but it's, it's only static in the background. It's a, it's a really low speck one cuz it's got, you know, the B pillar was black on the sportier ones and this one's painted body color, so it's low spec. Okay. But what I love about these things in films is that, that it, it reappears again later, somewhere else.

it's just a, a gold Cooper. And it it's it's starring moment though, is at St. Petersburg airport, which actually with Peter bros and Stan coming out wasn't St. Petersburg no award, no, I know shocking this, it was EP some race course. No was EP some race course. So there you go. That gives you a pile of things to link to, to your next seminar.

Do you know what I, I just said. GT 40 built for racing. Another car that was built for racing. In fact, rallying was the Audi TRO. There you go. It's yeah, we'll do it. Hang on. What was my link? And I did have a link and I forgot one link. Didn't you start talking about Sierras. Yeah, no, there was a link. Maybe it was just the racing and rallying.

Yeah. Wonderfully accused me of rambling and then spoke for 17 minutes about Sierras and Cuatros and then just sort of, sort of dribbled out. So speaking of racing teal formula one cars, the project 30. Know you of what was what was highly unusual about the project? 34? No, I, I only know about little uh, little spoilers on rear windows.

That's all I know about. Ah, Spoilers clever. Yeah. Fair and clever. Yes. So we are, we are back to 1975 formula one, and I don't know a great deal about formula one or be honest, but they brought in a rule that said the front spoiler on the car could be no more than 1.5 meters wide. Okay. Now this meant that the tires.

Because you needed to have a certain width of front axle because on a formula one car, the driver is sat pretty much over the front axle mm-hmm  so, or his legs are.  so you needed a certain width of front axle and at 1.5 meters, the front tires were poking out from beyond the spoiler, which affected aerodynamics.

Okay. So they thought, well, I wonder if we could put smaller tires on and sort of tuck them in behind the spoiler mm-hmm  this then resulted in under steer. Well, yeah,  because they needed 10 inch diameter wheels. They thought, well, we're gonna, we're at a serious disadvantage here with these tiny little tires on why not put two axles on the front  and have four steering wheels.

Mm-hmm , which was the whole thing with the tur project 34, it was the six wheeled race car. It had two sets of wheels at the front. They were 10 inches were. They were 10 inch diameter wheels, mini mini wheels. Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. They, they got special tires made.  there wasn't enough grip basically with these tiny little tires and wheels.

So they, they had to put four on it added weight, it complicated the suspension and the steering, obviously. In fact, the steering, they just linked the first axle to the steering and then the second axle behind it was linked to the first axle. Yeah. Just had tie kind of tie rods between them actually.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yep. They disguised. When it was unveiled by pretending it was a normal four Wheeler car by putting some, like a hoop over the, the two sets of front wheels. And then they pulled off the cover and everyone was like, what? The  lit literally nobody had been expecting it. And half of 'em laughed at it.

And half of 'em thought on, he might be a, be honest. Yeah. Yeah. They were actually surprisingly decent. They didn't always win, but if they finished a race, mm-hmm,  basically they would, the worst they ever did was seventh place came first and second in the Swedish Grandbury did a redesign in 1977 to try and improve the aerodynamics, but that just added weight, which then affected the break.

And they were basically under breaked. But they finished third. In 1976 overall and fifth in 1977. But the statistic that interested me and, and the one that's kind of kept me awake with my mind going, how does that work? Mm-hmm  is that right? Can that be right? So I'm gonna throw it at you re attire gigantic, obviously on a formula one car big on wide.

Yeah, front. Tiny. So the engineers worked out that because the big, the bigger rear tires are not having to do as many turns to cover the same distance as the smaller ones. Yes. The rears, when they were doing 200 miles an hour, the front tires were actually doing 320 miles an hour. Yeah.  I know. Yeah.

Have a, that away and have a think. Apparently that was the, that was the case. Cuz they were having to revolve that much faster to cover the same dis or that many more times because they were covering the same distance. I know that kept me awake last night. Yeah. Rotationally, I suppose so. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah.  and the basically the tire technology at the time, because this was the only car that they were making these tires for. So could. Basically didn't keep up the the technology and they reckon that the front tires were about six months underdeveloped compared to the rears. Right. So they, they didn't last  another engineer and this is another one to make you think.

Huh? Calculated the rear tires were two seconds quicker than the front tires on the track.  yeah. Huh? Yeah, I know. Huh. So but what through 1977 was the last time the race only raced them for two years. They had quite sophisticated computers that were keeping up all the electronic data. Right. And the computers often failed.

So if a car won, they didn't really know why, if it failed, they didn't really know why. Cause it came first. Yeah. I mean, since normally a giveaway. But they did. They, they made it, I, I dunno how many they made, but chassis number six.  in 1999 was restored and they brought it out again for some historic racing.

Plus Avon tires made some modern, decent technology tires to the front of it. Right. And it basically qualified in first or second place, pretty much wherever it raced. So it suggests that teal did have it right. They just didn't have the development and the technology and the money behind it. Cuz for 1978, they went back to a.

Formula one car with four wheels. It's an amazing looking thing. Yeah. Yeah. It really is. It, it it's an intriguing car that I, I think, you know, I don't think we'll ever see it again because for formula ones become so regulated now mm-hmm but back then, anything goes there were others. Well, there was a formula one car with two axles at the rear and, you know, but they were, I believe the first formula one, six wheel car didn't they have, I wouldn't say the first six wheel race car, but certainly in formula one, I think.

Didn't they have a regulation at one point in F1 where it was basically just a, you know, this, you sort of a perimeter box on the floor. And your car has to fit into that. And that's kind, you know, that that's kind of it. Yeah. It's a little bit more, it's a little bit more high tech now. Isn't it? The ruling, I think, do whatever you like.

Yeah. But certainly, yeah, we'll, we'll maybe come back to some formula, one stories in the future about how people got around the different regulations and things, but yeah. Ter ter P 34, 6 34. P oh, P 34. You know what I should have done? Oh, no, wait a minute. It's P 38 range room still P 38. No, no range range room P 38.

What's a P 34. Could have done a BMW E 34. Five series. Okay. And just thinking about those that twin axle, I've done my own tracking on my cars for, for years and you know, it, it explains a lot  they always look Crossey. Yeah. It's, it's a tricky job. But I'm just trying to, just trying to now imagine doing the, the, the, the caster camber and toe for four wheels and trying to get that.

I would think that probably would be a bit of a, a killer in the end, actually, in terms of, you know, fine adjustment that ultimately.  one of the four after it's bumped up and down curbs and whatnot. One of the four is not going to agree with the others eventually , you know,  and the, the other supposed advantage it had.

And I did some research into this cause I was originally told that the reason they made it four wheeled was for anti acqui cleaning in the rain. The first set of tires cleared the track, the second set grip, but that doesn't appear to be the case. I haven't read that anywhere, but certainly hang on. I read that in a.

Yeah. So that, that sounds like a, a child's encyclopedia reason because the two wheels were very close to each other. It looks to me like the front one would just simply soak the rear one even more, never mind clearing it, but yeah, I mean, you you're gonna have spray, but I would imagine contact patch would be cleaner.

Yeah. Yeah. That's a sort of contact patch here and they're going so fast anyway, but. Right. My connection, I got, I've got several interesting cars here. None of which we're gonna do today. Cause we're not gonna have time. So in which case I'm

so I've episode two approaching  it's it's like it's like going to a dreadful restaurant. The, the only restaurant in the world where you wanna go, where you are some for less, not more please. The the, I said. Because the 10 inch wheels mini did have 10 inch wheels, correct? Yes, it did. Yes. Did they ever get any bigger ones, the, the classic mini or were they always 10?

Yeah, they, they put 'em on they put 'em on 12 inch wheels later on in the seventies. They did. And actually someone who.  stuck. We talked about it ages ago, stuck an enormous engine in and put 12 inch wheels at the front and 10 at the back or something for yeah. Oh, the yeah, the Buick V8 mini. Yes.

My link therefore is mini and the Countryman. And the reason that this comes up in my mind today is that a friend has just bought a Then , which I know bit 10 years, but she, she, she wanted a, a mini I said, are you sure the new ones, are you sure? They, they, you know, I can see the appeal, but you know, just, just make sure it's what you want, you know, cuz they're sort of okay.

In reliability terms, you know, they're not, they're not, not the best, not the worst, you know, and she's a doctor. So I thought it was quite important, but yeah. Car start. Yeah. I thought it was quite important. She had a Toyota.  your, your, your Toyota maybe. Were you you trying to offload wonderfully  anyway, no.

So mini, so she bought a, a, a, a Clubman now the first generation of the new mini Clubman. I really liked cuz it kept the original vertical foldy doors at the back. However you describe. Not a hatchback and, and you are with your hands? Yeah,  so I, I, I ever referred to earlier in the show, when I say, I know what a door is  and they were, of course two doors at the front.

I was gonna call it a three door, but of course they weren't cuz they were actually a four door weren't they technically yes. Now like that I liked cuz it was still very much a mini and very much a Clubman from the past in terms of its looks and the doors and all the rest of it. The new one.

Oh, that's so wild on really? Cuz it's it's got four, four passenger doors and then the back it looks, I dunno. Anyway, that's what she's got. So well done, but, but that made me think of a Countryman because the Countryman I've got a bit more sympathy for. And that's where I was trying to steer her potentially a little bit.

Right. First Countryman of this run, 20 10, 20 10 to 2016. It's called the R 60, cuz I'm liking my numbers. It's called R 60. That is not a Looker. That's the one with the, no, yeah, you can picture it. It's not a look at that one, but the 2017 onwards, which is the F 60. I think it's quite nice actually is. I mean, it's still a bit awkward AKs it's AKs.

But it total AKs,  just AKs, just, just, just AKs, but there's some detail on it that I detailing on it that I really like. There's a white one. I see. Sometimes it's a Cooper or a Coopers white one with black trim. And black wheels. And so I dunno, there's just something about it that I think all that I quite like, I quite like that.

So I was true just purely for selfish grounds. I was trying to steer her down the, down that path because you got, you got a choice, so you can do fast, you can do four wheel drive. You can do. Economical diesel, or you could do a plugin. There's kind of quite a, quite an array to go for there. And they've proved quite popular actually about a third of mini sales, I think are countrymen's.

There certainly were reason they had two doors on the back in the original sixties minis supposedly was because it took less space on the production line than having one single door open so they could get more cars crammed into a smaller space. Really? Whether you believe that or.  And always thought with the BMW version of the country, man, it's such a shame.

They didn't put the wood on the back, like they did with the originals. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Would've been fun. You, you could buy them with or without cuz they, there was the estate, which was without the wood and then there was the country model, the traveler, depending on whether you bought an Austin or a Morris.

Yeah, you're right. They they're missing a trick with that as an option. Surely. Yeah. Oh, another thing in Italy, you are like this in Italy. If you bought one without the wood on the side, it was called the Metallica  it was a mini Metallica. I've got one more question actually about minis or I've got a question about mini and mini styling.

I just want your opinion, personal opinion. The rear lights on new ones you can option to be either the normal sort of L E D E things, or L E D in the union flag shape. Yes. Right? Yes. Where do you stand on that? I liked it when I first saw it. Okay. But it's like everything else. Once you see too many of them, you think that's a bit.

But I, when I initially saw it, I thought, well, that's quite fun. There's a, you know, there's something British about the cars. It it's a fun thing. It's no worse than somebody other rubbish that they punk modern cars these days when it first appeared, I thought Hmm. Bit of a. I think that might be a bit of a misstep a bit too far.

The funny thing is now when I see one that hasn't got the option on it. I think, oh, why didn't you have that option? You should have had that option.  so I think, I think that probably means I like it.  yeah. It's I think it's like anything else. And if you see them everywhere, then it's, it's a bit dull. It's like a lot of the, the BMW minis you see now are Coopers mm-hmm

Mm. In fact, I think they're all cool.  yes. So if you see one, that's not, you sort of think. Hmm. That's, you know, that's just like a base model. That's fun. I, I future collectible there. Yeah. A base model. Yeah. I went to a classic mini show a few months back. And the amount of Coopers  that were there, just on the field.

Mm-hmm  I think surely exceeded the amount that were ever built in period. Yeah. Oh, it seems like everyone's got a Cooper or a GT or a Cooper S and you are Al you are quite glad to just see a little late. Or something. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Or in modern, modern terms and mini one. Yes. Also a pity that they didn't make a Cooper variation of the traveler I period, traveler, Countryman period.

Because a number of people have since, and they seem to work. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess they just didn't wanna dilute the brand. So I think that kind of rounds off your game. I there's no scoring as such, is there? No, no one what a point there? No,  I think everyone's a winner.  And apart from perhaps solicitor,

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